Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VC 1.04

Tchill13 (2):

verylazy, davesaz

wilky (1):

Tchill13

Ramcius (3):

wilky, Ventriloquist, Alchemist21

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, Ramcius

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Ventriloquist (6):

Ouroboros, hebichan, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE, ManWithNoName, MariaR, Wraith

verylazy (1):

Kaede Akamatsu

ManWithNoName (1):

Ankamius

Wraith (1):

Impossibear

Not Voting:

None

With

18

alive,

10

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)

@GIF, A VC PLEASE?

Morning shift is a terrible thing.

Let me know if I missed anything. That was a lot of pages to count.

RC. LOOK AT THIS VC. SERIOUSLY. How can you be so oblivious???

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Hmm i think i like this better now.
VOTE: Wraith

[Impossibear]

VC 1.04

Tchill13 (2):

verylazy, davesaz

wilky (1):

Tchill13

Ramcius (3):

wilky, Ventriloquist, Alchemist21

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, Ramcius

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Ventriloquist (6):

Ouroboros, hebichan, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE, ManWithNoName, MariaR, Wraith

verylazy (1):

Kaede Akamatsu

ManWithNoName (1):

Ankamius

Wraith (1):

Impossibear

Not Voting:

None

With

18

alive,

10

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)

@GIF, A VC PLEASE?

Morning shift is a terrible thing.

Let me know if I missed anything. That was a lot of pages to count.

RC. LOOK AT THIS VC. SERIOUSLY. How can you be so oblivious???

[Wraith]

Oh, so it's gonna be one of those games

AKA, literally every game I'm in

[hebichan]

UNVOTE:

Why did you join on the same wagon with real men, man with no name.

[AnonymousGhost]

So I reskimmed 648 and now I really want to lynch verylazy.

I'll be better able to explain when I have a computer.

Ghost

[Ouroboros]

Fucking alt slips.

[ManWithNoName]

He's pursuing and forming some reads, even if he's not providing reasoning.

And, even so, I was thinking about it and what's the scum motivation for him to keep his meme posting up? As far as I can tell, there is none. So, I'm calling the meme style NAI, as I can see it coming from either town or scum, especially since now I am reminded of someone else who I thought a weird posting style in a certain character was scum indicative, and ended up being wrong.

It was good I did not get my way in that lynch, and could be good that I didn't get my way in this read. He's null at worst for me.

[Alchemist21]

Catching up now. What happened to add 8 pages to this game?

[Alchemist21]

At first, I thought the argument Maria was making against Nero was kind of lame and suggested to me an ulterior agenda. Nero's reaction matched what I was thinking. I hadn't liked many of Maria's posts to begin with and Nero's posts came across to me like aggravated town.

After speaking with Jingle about that particular interaction, I agree with him that both sides are rather NAI. Jingle says that kind of logic is par for the course for Maria, and after thinking about it some more, I could see Nero having that reaction as either alignment. The aggressive tone of the reaction specifically could definitely come from scum, but I had been leaning more towards town on that as I originally felt.

In short, they're both actually pretty null as I can't decide if it's alignment-indicative at all now.

Tone-wise I'm Townreading Maria. The sheep onto Nero while ignoring Ram seemed sketchy, but since I was Townreading her before that I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt when she says she was waiting for something. Also the original position is something that could come from either Town or scum so it didn't change my read.

For Nero, it looks like he was the one putting words in Maria's mouth while accusing her of doing the same. It was possible he just misunderstood her posts, but when he attacked her join date it felt like a cheap shot to me and to say it was deflection when Maria called him on it was some bull. It felt like Nero just wanted to attack and push Maria rather than engage her in good faith.

[Alchemist21]

ETL struggling to keep up with a game that grows only like 3 pages a day? making fake wallposts responding to every single bullshit post almost every page attempting to look townie? i know this bitch reads faster than that!

why the fuck you lyin'?

Their posts indicate the two heads are talking things out with each other before making their posts. I'd say that would be a significant factor in their post rate. They're also giving readable content which is great, and it's more than I can say for some other in this game.

[Wraith]

Catching up now. What happened to add 8 pages to this game?

Bunch of bullshit really. Lots of "I'm the better player." "No, I'M the better player."

[Ouroboros]

I don't recall taking them up on that fight as much as I felt like contradicting the stuff coming out of RMOJ whose identity I think I now know

[Alchemist21]

Ok, maybe. I could see this line of reasoning. I personally didn't get that when I read his ISO. I'll re-review I guess. I'm trying to figure out why people are so gung ho about this wagon. Like, is it something you'd need to look really deeply to find? Because.. nothing stood out to me the way it apparently is for you and Ouro.

For me, I've seen scum trying to directly engage with the person scumreading them and try to discredit the validity of the read or try to reason their way out of it. My memory might be a bit hazy example that came to my mind reading Vent's posts was SerraPaladin's posts in the 2016 Team Trap Mafia where he said the player who was scumreading them was doing it for reasons other than the content of their posts. I know Vent's not making that same exact argument but the nature of their defense feels like it comes from that same kind of mindset.

Wrt to my Ank vote, I've seen more content from them as both alignments tbh. It's been a while since I've played with them iirc, but how they're approaching this game doesn't sit right with me and the lack of any explanations makes it harder to actually solidify the read. I'll admit it's a read subject to change but if I have to strongarm some content from them I will.

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

Aight. I'll work on reading you. FWIW, I'm not sure that we're worth the investigate, but I'll take conftown status if someone wants to give it to us. You should know that ETL will obvtown eventually if town. It's how she do. I'd far prefer they use it on RC or an actually unreadable slot. You clearly don't have the experience to get her to rage read level, so your best bet is going to be to leave her to her devices and see what falls out when she's got her feet under her.

I think I've got her calmed down enough to the point that she's not hatebonering for your lynch, but I'd REALLY suggest against making a meme alt to mess with her. She despises alts who try to meta read her and will not respond well. I think I have enough information to figure out your identity. I will do so over the weekend, and decide whether your progression makes sense for the level of knowledge you actually have on her. I don't out secret alts without permission as a rule, so you have my word that whatever I come up with will remain a secret, but I WILL use the information to read you if I can. At the moment, assuming my read of your familiarity with ETL is correct you're probably town. If you're either FAR more familiar or FAR less, that's pretty much the opposite.

I think I've also talked her out of running to your house tonight with pitchforks and torches for the lols of it.

ETL claimed "strongest town player in the game", which, MAN to man, I agree with. second to, only, the MAN of course. to get such a slot conftown, who could pass up such an irresistible offer ?!?!

well yeah, thats why such a meme alt doesnt exist. yet.

i'll take your word for it and honor it like a MAN. though, good luck with that, i've already revealed more than i needed or intended to when i signed up for this game for the most part.


no shit i'm town. though i will not confirm nor deny any guesses

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

So I reskimmed 648 and now I really want to lynch verylazy.

I'll be better able to explain when I have a computer.

Ghost

i'll back you up on this like a MAN but i don't have any extreme objections to Ventril wagon for now which is the only reason why i'm on the wagon with RC

MAN SUPPORT

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

I'm not scum reading manwithnoname that hard right now, he seems to be scumhunting, which I don't think many scum players try to play up this early day one.

I dunno, I feel vent more at the moment, but you could case him if you like. I could probably be swayed.

Hebi, who specifically are you referring to here?

Anyone who is scumreading him, specifically REALMAN

if your tiny snake eyes could actually read my posts, i have a MANread on MWNN and that MANREAD IS TOWN

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

this here is the VI

if you can tolerate them you'll certainly have fun with the MAN

[Alchemist21]

@Ank

I remember you having it in your sig where someone said you're the only person they knew who could do nothing all game then solve it out of nowhere, but I didn't think it was so literal.

At the very least I want an explanation for why you're voting who you're voting.

here you go

That's not even close to an explanation and you know it.

[Impossibear]

Aight. I'll work on reading you. FWIW, I'm not sure that we're worth the investigate, but I'll take conftown status if someone wants to give it to us. You should know that ETL will obvtown eventually if town. It's how she do. I'd far prefer they use it on RC or an actually unreadable slot. You clearly don't have the experience to get her to rage read level, so your best bet is going to be to leave her to her devices and see what falls out when she's got her feet under her.

I think I've got her calmed down enough to the point that she's not hatebonering for your lynch, but I'd REALLY suggest against making a meme alt to mess with her. She despises alts who try to meta read her and will not respond well. I think I have enough information to figure out your identity. I will do so over the weekend, and decide whether your progression makes sense for the level of knowledge you actually have on her. I don't out secret alts without permission as a rule, so you have my word that whatever I come up with will remain a secret, but I WILL use the information to read you if I can. At the moment, assuming my read of your familiarity with ETL is correct you're probably town. If you're either FAR more familiar or FAR less, that's pretty much the opposite.

I think I've also talked her out of running to your house tonight with pitchforks and torches for the lols of it.

ETL claimed "strongest town player in the game", which, MAN to man, I agree with. second to, only, the MAN of course. to get such a slot conftown, who could pass up such an irresistible offer ?!?!

well yeah, thats why such a meme alt doesnt exist. yet.

i'll take your word for it and honor it like a MAN. though, good luck with that, i've already revealed more than i needed or intended to when i signed up for this game for the most part.


no shit i'm town. though i will not confirm nor deny any guesses

Assuming the assumptions I've made are correct, I know who you are. I'd put that at roughly 70%.

Neither ETL or I are easy mislynches in the first few days, so there's little chance we'll be lolwagoned. At some point in the near future, we will be a universal townread for reasons beyond the comprehension of mortal minds. And then, between that point and LYLO, we will be killed in the night by cowards. All of this you can treat as fact, and if we fail to show results you can yell at me later.

I'd much rather someone who I'm not 100% sure will resolve themselves before LYLO get copped, preferably RC so I can avoid the paranoia over that slot, but really we're the fifth worst cop target in the thread.

In other news, a deadline just moved up by a week unexpectedly, so I'm going to be noticeably absent for at least the next couple of days. This is compared to my unnoticeable absences that will happen the rest of the game. Not gonna declare V/LA, because ETL should be able to handle this til the weekend and I'll be able to post at least once on each of Saturday and Sunday. Hopefully next week will be back to normal.

~Jingle

[Alchemist21]

Happy Scumday Ank!

While I appreciate the long-overdue attempt at content, there wasn't actually much "content" there, tbh. I'm gonna need more explanation on those reads, not just how strong they are.

I'm actually not willing to go into every single read I have here right now, but I'm open to discussing specific ones if you have a preference.

Also, ETL, just as a quick note because this is directly relevant to me: how do you generally get your reads? I remember you being a fairly strong player but I want to get an idea as to why our general thoughts have been polar opposites this game.

I've actually posted about this in mafia discussion, but basically I prefer to townhunt first as scumreads take much longer for me to develop. The other reason is because being able to work together with your town reads makes for a very strong town that is tough to breakup outside of straight killing the members of the townblock, and can spell doom for the scumteam.

Which thoughts in particular are we "polar opposites" on? Let's talk about them.

Reference Post

Early Alchemist Posts: A big source of my scumread on Alchemist came from these posts, actually. I'm not liking the way he came out onto the miller point so fast after the game started; I especially do not like his answer to Ghost regarding davesaz' play since I don't remember him ever being particularly active or a big player in the game he's in; him specifically focusing on him not being scum pings in light of that. I really didn't like #21 either.

Early Kaede+MariaR Interactions: Opposite reaction here too; this is where my MariaR townread started, specifically #35; something about the early miller talks feels way off and I liked the attempt to push discussion away from that.

Alchemist #63: This is a big one; Alchemist hit a huge scumvibe with this post, although primarily combined with his #55 (which I independently found scummy). Alchemist hasn't felt genuine in these posts at all, I've been getting posturing vibes off these posts if anything.

Ouroboros #71: This is the beginning of the Ouroboros townread for me; this happens a

lot

throughout the game so far, but there's been a lot of instances where I have a reaction to a specific post and see an RC post detailing that exact same thought 1/3 down the page. In this particular instance, RC misspoke; he was referring to the multitude of people having him claim first after the second miller claim, and the post RC is referring to looks like a huge backpedal, like he's realizing he just fucked up.

What the shit is this...: This is a playstyle quirk I use; it has a very specific purpose that pays off very well when I get the reaction I want from it. It mostly didn't this game, sadly. There's another subpoint in here that achieves the same thing, but I don't want to reveal exactly what it is because then it won't work anymore.

Post 101 VC: Up to this point, of the four people on the wagon that aren't me, one is conftown and the other two are the people I have strong townreads on. As an aside, I wasn't scumreading Wilky at that time.

Post 163: I 100% agreed with RC here. The votes weren't necessarily there, but MWWN's trajectory onto the wagon, Ramcius' one-liner shading the claim, and davesaz suddenly hopping on all within a very short window raised some eyebrows with me too.

Overall, I think the issue you're having with RC is the same one I'm having with you; I think the analysis looks townish because I don't really see any scum motivation from it... but I don't understand the points you're making themselves.

Post 171: I agree with this assessment, all I can really add is that I think all of Ramcius' posts around this spot look really bad.

MariaR 259: I agree here too, but I actually think it's just her falling into the Nero-is-wrong-therefore-scum trap. I can't follow like 80% of what Nero posts in every game we play and I've probably fallen into that same trap before. I've mostly learned to read him through other ways but I'm suspecting MariaR doesn't have a whole lot of experience with him.

Post 266: I think this entire exchange between the two has been pretty pointless. I don't see why Nero's posting there is any more sensical than MariaR's, honestly.

Post 301: One of the instances where I disagreed with RC; I've generally agreed with his scumreads and not his townreads this game.

See this is the kind of post I've been wanting. It also looks like you only refused my demands for content because you're scumreading me since you're willing to give them to Impossibear in your Town reads. Anyway, more like these please.

VOTE: Ventriloquist

[Ouroboros]

You can fuck right off with asking people to cop us.

I have a hydra partner whom you can read and I absolutely do not have anywhere near the mental commitment towards this game to be willing to coach her.
I am a universal townread for a reason: I thought I was a townread for you as well. If you want a bloody 1v1 then this is how you get a bloody 1v1.
Get paranoid of me if I'm still alive a few days into the game. Not on D1 when I'm trying to solve the game.

[Alchemist21]

Realmen

Can I get a reads list from you? With some of your posts it's hard to tell if your giving a read or not so I want a more organized list so I can see clearly where you stand.

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

Realmen

Can I get a reads list from you? With some of your posts it's hard to tell if your giving a read or not so I want a more organized list so I can see clearly where you stand.

MANREAD: man with no name is town
MANREAD: Ankamius is town
MANREAD: Alchemist21 is town

MANREAD: verylazy is scum

check back again tomorrow for more MAN READS!!

[Ouroboros]

ETL you have displayed absolutely zero respect for my reads earlier, my scumread on Ventriloquist or my own ability to look into the wagon.
If you don't understand why I am scumreading the slot then you certainly shouldn't be saying shit about me being oblivious to the development of the wagon.
I echo the same general ideas that Alchemist had about the way they talk to me being extremely scum leaning but I have very specific ideas here as opposed to Alchemist's vague idea.

Also in defense of Ventriloquist, you've cited MWNN and RMOJ as your reasons for opposing the wagon development.
This doesn't pan out well because although they are voting, neither of their votes are particularly enthusiastic in a way that signifies that they couldn't be scum bussing.

RealMenOnlyJungle has several times after he joined the wagon tried to be like HEY LETS WAGON VERYLAZY INSTEAD.
MWNN took a lot of prompting and comments about his likeliness of being aligned with Ventriloquist before he decided to vote there and hasn't specifically pushed it himself.

Your engagement with me has also been fundamentally monodirectional: rather than trying to understand why my read is what it is you've gotten mad at me for not sharing your reads and been like HEY YOU SHOULD BE READING THIS INSTEAD. I'm not going to claim to be perfect town. But when you make a list of people who can read you and then say that you're a better scum player it makes me extremely skeptical of your ability to fairly judge how good you are: there is literally no one on this site who can claim that they can read me among several people who have told me they've read every single game I've played, and I have one of the largest bodies of work of anyone on this site.

I'm not townreading lazy worth shit: it's completely null. I simply think that the wagon on them is highly liable to be a scum counterwagon.

When bad town starts running the game, it becomes clear that we have already lost.

Don't fail to make any mental effort to appreciate why I'm scumreading a slot then call me bad town for faiing to scumread it, assuming you're town.

Never, ever, ever fail to lynch this slot tomorrow if (when) Ventriloquist flips scum. Don't cop them, don't investigate them, don't discuss with them, just quicklynch them.