Mini Normal 2003: donezo

[UnaBombaH]

Hi all!
Will read the game within ~8 or so hours and post a catchup simultaneously (I'm sorry, there will be spam).

I'm very happy to replace here, since there's definitely value to be gained from dissecting the votes on my slot - I am very much a townie.

[UnaBombaH]

I could see the 5 person arc wagon there being town.

Note to self while reading - is Hopkirk one of them?

[UnaBombaH]

Hopkirk and Srceenplay do you stand by your vig claims? If so I'm not lynching either and you can sort out who is lying tonight unless scum RB also exists then glgl us. Gun to my head srceenplay is likely scum of the two. Claiming an SK and vig in a 10p game is beyond lolworthy.

Feels like a weird opener.

Arc seems overly frustrated but I think that would be easier to read in real time rather than in hindsight.

As Arc feels like the likeliest scum at the time of this post, this could be a buddy softbussing but not cementing the read. (has the keywords

but

and

would be

)

Anyway top suspects are Arc, Alice, Srceenplay but I'm not lynching Srceenplay today.

This feels like the starting point for the wagon on my slot.

[UnaBombaH]

Why is Arc scummier than Srceenplay?

After saying that Arc and Srceen are both suspects for them, but they are NOT lynching Srceen D1?
Scummmmmmmmm.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

Good man!
I have a townvibe from you so far in my read-through, and I feel even better about my read on Cheeky now.

[UnaBombaH]

oh damn who do i shoot

Since you are #3 in my list for potential scum, shoot either Cheeky or Arc.

Maybe Cheeky?

Approved.

I'm also considering NM/Imbad/TheWorst, as I said earlier I kind of just want to shoot a low poster.

Fine by me too, but I'd prefer you would narrow the scumpool for me..!

[UnaBombaH]

I'm not a fan of lolhammers, especially preclaim.

While I agree, I think we don't need any more claims assuming yours is truthful..

Arc claim please?

I know I'm reading from behind, but please don't..

It's more about getting Arc to interact and ensuring we don't lolhammer a PR as there has been stated interest to do so.

I don't think this is genuine.

I'd say at least let ark answer the questions about her wagon.

In a 10p game, I'd say this is the towny approach to it.

VOTE: Srceenplay

I'm fine with Arc not claiming if noone intends to hammer. Cough *alice*

No idea what is the point of this..? Oh wait, get that wagon on me rolling?

I'm assuming you're referring to my asking for a claim from Arc. If you're referring to Hopkirk that's ridiculous as his claim is self-resolving and would be suicide SOD.

"Shot the same target" - "Got blocked/Kill healed". In a 10p game, scum only needs a few days of delay..

[UnaBombaH]

Oof I'm not townreading Srceen this time

Arc Srceen or Cheeky are seeming scummiest to me. N_M is null as shit. Others can be townleans, no one strikes me as super towny yet.

Srceen is almost surely town here, based on his tone in a few of his previous games..

Agree on Arc and Cheeky though, so good ducky there!

Why am I scummy? Why is Arc scummy?

Would scum!Cheeky be ballsy enough to talk about their buddy this much though?

You have never explained your reason to town read LOVE. You just you read him as town. It doesn't make any sense. She contributed nothing to the game apart from a BIG mouth. So how could you read her town until unless your faction tells tht she is.

VOTE: Hopkrik

This makes me feel better about still having scum in Hopkirk/ArcAngel, but not together.
So I'm still looking at Cheeky+either one.

No. I wont claim. If this town this dumb enough to lynch someone so early without strong reads. So be it. Role claiming on day 1 narrow things for mafia. I hate it.

Good job on this.

[UnaBombaH]

Yeah Arc/Srceenplay could be a thing. I don't like how she keeps asking him about the claim and makes nothing of it - voting TChill instead who is the towniest player SOD. Her reason for voting TChill is counterintuitive and makes no sense. All her pushes seem to be on Low Hanging fruit.

I don't want Arc lynched with so much time on the clock though. Consider my vote there is spirit.

This post screams scum!Arc as a partner for Cheeky to me.. While she started by saying that she doesn't want Srceen lynched today, she is now seemingly pushing him over Arc.

Lol hop is the only one sorting in a reasonable manner I'm not sure why you'd call him scum.

That is why he is only #3 in order..
I'd call him a good scum if he flips that then?

Idk why people just call me terrible every game. I didn't even do anything this time.

It's just what people in this site do.
If you keep being genuine with the way that you play and read, your own style will evolve and shine through.
I still suck at this game, but almost everyone who has played more than a few games with me, are now able to understand how I reach my own conclusions (whether right or wrong), and therefore are more accurate in sorting me too.

Explain those ones, cheeky?

Btw, if cheeky scum then Alice is town.

Good of you to notice..

*notes Alice/Love association*

Yea, two townies agreeing on something!

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

I know you feel the same thing that I do!

Btw, reread the duck. He can still be scum.

Actually disagree on this, but we'll see.

If you two are scum together, you don't forget the replacement thing. Don't think it's faked? When I've seen things like this before they're never faked.

Astute observation btw! I didn't think of the whole replace-out -angle.. I just think her need to push my slot over Arc (and obv. herself) is incriminating enough..

gun to my head ark and cheeky are most likely to be scum atm.

So many of us seem to agree on this, so maybe we go there now that I'm here?

Why is everyone blind to srceenplay?

He has scummy style I think, so lots is NAI.

Yes, this.

[UnaBombaH]

Can you explain your Screen/Cheeky reads?

+

Cheeky can be town.

Such a quick townbin on my #1 scumread never feels good..

who's the second?

Why shouldn't someone claim if they're on L1 with possible intent to hammer?

Any thoughts on Alice sort of wanting to hammer?

Bolding my own - the question seems..redundant?

It's legitimately bs that he has been here the whole day and I have a handful of content and get insta scumread.

more good stuff

...how is that good stuff?

Townpool: Love/Cheeky/Tchill/The worst
Potential town or potential scum: Screen/Alice
Null: Havo/NM
Scummy: Arc

This list makes Hopkirk/Cheeky seem more likely than not again..
Also wondering why there's a separate bracket for "null" and "Potential town or potential scum"..

VOTE: Alice

What are those extremely scummy things you mentioned earlier for both me and Arc?

..and I'm guessing she will not have a chance to answer this before flaking?

[UnaBombaH]

@Screen: are you retracting the vig claim yet.

Is this still a thing?
If town thinks I’m vig they have nothing to worry about.
If scum thinks I’m vig they better watch out because I’m shooting them.

+

Who's your scum/shootpool?

+

I don’t know.
Probably someone bitching about a vig claim.

=MASTAPIIS.

I love me some Srceen.

Could Hop/screen be scum theatre? Just putting it here for later reference maybe.

Screen being very defiant, hop has a town feel.

I think you have similar hunches as I had.
The difference seems to be that I have a solidish townread on Srceen because of "meta" and such, and I feel like Hop is actually the one causing a flaw in tone...or whatever it is that pings me as scum.

Arc working too hard this early, Tchill & NM’s votes on Hop look shady.

Arc has given scummy vibes to almost everyone in here, there's no disregarding that.
I'd say N_M and Chill both have a tendency not to care who they vote and when, if they feel like doing it.

VOTE: Cheeky

The uncanny ability to be around to place a L-1 or hammer- vote on D1!

From wagon looks like cheeky only scumpartner is arc or worst anyways.

Arc or Hop I'd say.

I guess Alice could be cheeky partner too.

...a total contradiction on what you said previously..

Just from vote timing, that is. Still had that thing from earlier.

Posted on the same minute as the above..a scum slipping and trying to rectify, or just felt the need to clarify?

I'd like it publically known that I'm not a fan of lolhammers on players who flip town.

Cheeky is probably town.

DISLIKE.

NM will you stop effing mislynching me?

I'll ask him nicely, if you promise not to try and mislynch me too!

Ugh now to find who started this. Hold up.

Where are you going with this?

Oh it's Havo/Alice

VOTE: Alice

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

Oh you idiot. Omg you lynched a townie!!!

Lol you get 0/10 for that fake hammer. But thanks for confirming you're likely town for trying.

UNVOTE:

Reaction test over.

This is my favorite sequence of posts I've ever seen on site.

I was just wondering how to format my appreciation for it too, but you had already bundled them!

0% meant to votepark NM that hard.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

Not the worst, but a bad vote at this time..

How about we disband the Cheeeky wagon before someone gets hurt.

Please don't.

Alice, back to Arc, try your luck on NM. Whatever.

Hate the idea that you are so careless, as long as it's not Cheeky..

I know an over reaction to pressure when I see one. Doesn’t matter if I’ve never played with someone.

Yeah except clearly you don't. There are better ways to get people to scum read me, like how you're doing now, sadly you've mistimed it so it doesn't look genuine. It just looks like you're trying to cover your ass.

I have no other reason to scum read you. Why would I push anything else?

I made my point weather you agree or not. You are not above being sorted. Period.

Why are you scared of being sorted? I welcome it. Townies should always welcome it.

This seems as plain a bundle of posts I've ever seen, of one having a consistent tone with a clear agenda, while the other is only trying to misrep and shade.

Havo: Alice or Arc?

This would still keep all the options open, assuming scum!Hop would be paired with scum!Cheeky that is. Assuming town!Hopkirk, it is VERY important to note that their stubbornness on Cheeky could end up costing us later if she doesn't eat rope today..

It was arc.

I’m voting the other A for now.

VOTE: Alice

I see that your break from this game has been most unbeneficial for town..!

Let’s just vote Alice and move on.

Havo maybe tomorrow. Idk

Yeah, you really lost your touch here man!

[UnaBombaH]

Idk why you're all scumreading Alice. Strong reads? Doesn't seem scummy

..and you are being accurate here.

Let’s just vote Alice and move on.

Havo maybe tomorrow. Idk

Scummy

...and unaccurate here. I guess it's easier from my POV, being the one catching up on a one big read-through, I think it's clear that Srceen has been themselves early game (I'd call it "surface-level scummy"), and yet still had accurate reads.
Your town-read on Havo seems to be correct too, trust that later.
I too, think the worst has been towny so far. Or at least they haven't been very scummy!

Like really the issue is we need to see what happens with Arc's slot

This, or Cheeky. But seeing as I'm most confident on her, we should lynch her D1, and move on from there.

Look at scum stone walling the Alice wagon.

That is not what is happening here! You have it all upside down - you had it the right way around before you voted my slot!

What’s the percentage Alice flips scum?

0%, swear it on my grannys baggy panties.

You come from me being scum to IDK? sounds oppurtunist.

^^directed at Cheeky.

After reading today...I think Tchill, love bird are my strong town reads

Cheeky and hove are my strong scum reads

Hopkrick may be town or sucm

theworst is null

Alice i am not sure. the wagon doesn't look compromising. I need her to come back and talk more.

Not Mafia usually more active as town, this odd trolling behavior is worrying me a bit.

VOTE: Cheeky or i am good with Hove too.

Bless you for this.

So we lynch in Cheeky/Arc and solve the game from there now.

Presto manifesto.

Alice wagon is made up well atm.

Heavy disagreement for Srceen wouldn't likely even be in it if they hadn't been inactive with the game for a while..

Hey arc hopkirk isn't getting lynched today. It'd be nice if you hopped on the Alice wagon.

Hop isn't lynched today, but I'm still a poor alternative. Go Cheeky/Arc.

Why should you, Havo and Hopkirk sway the whole town?

THIS. IS.

SPARTA

CONTENT?!?! N_M, I think I'm finally getting to understand you. Not just in this game, but in general.

[UnaBombaH]

I've played multiple games with havo and I've yet to see him find a suitable style for day 1. Sometimes he scum hunts. Sometimes he hammers first wagon. Sometimes he lurks.

He's a multiple day read.

Not willing to lynch day 1 because as town he's a help.

NM is a multiple day read. He's better than he let's on. Why he trolls and lurks I could not tell you.

Of the multiple day reads I'm willing to lynch him the most.

Hopkirk is a great asset to town if he's town.

One of the only people that can play transparently town.

Vig claiming day 1 is questionable solely because of the claim but I'm not lynching him today.

Screen is a multiple day read also. I've seen him help town too. Not lynching him today.

I could lynch cheeky

or Alice.

Probably wouldn't lynch worst or love today.

They don't give me scum tingles like the other two.

Ark is lean scum btw

.

This post from Chill returned my hope for mankind.

PLEASE NOTE: I BOLDED EVERYTHING IN THAT POST THAT I AGREED WITH.

Best case scenario we lynch one you shoot the other.

Arc/Cheeky = 10/10.

UNVOTE: Alice
want to talk first

Good.

Did the analysis of Tchill. Assuming the games I looked at are still relevant to his playstyle, the difference was substantial enough that I think I can tell his alignment with 90%ish accuracy.
Doing it semi-manually, so my arm is kind of hurting and i haven't actually looked at how it compares to this game yet.

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Measuring a specific set of metrics on a scale. They were at 39/36/36 in the three towngames and 14/19 in the two scumgames.
Results above 50 or below 10 should not occur I think.

No idea what happened here. This is either scum doing lots of heavy lifting, or I really need to research people like this too..

Talk about a blast from the past. I enjoyed playing with that player named vedith. It's been so long I forgot his name but I learned a good amount from him.

All I know of him is the usual " \o/ " and his alt that was something like GameReplacement or something. He was scum with Boon, and I managed to be in a winning town against them! (was my first normal-game, my first PR on site, and my first win!)

Anyway, this game gave a result of 41. Given I was already townreading you, and remembered some meta points while doing it, we're Best-friends (the mason style) now.

Ech. Pockettó.

Why is alice wagon growing but she's not even here?

I think I'll start stalking you from now on. You have a gift for making obvious statements that others seem to miss.

Not_Mafia

Srceenplay
CheekyTeeky
Havo
ArcAngel9
The Worst

Lovebird

AliceRaider45

Tchill13

Hopkirk

I think this looks good.

I'd say this is the best possible lynchpool if I had to 50/50 it. You should try and take more names out of it before days end though. My personal preference would be to strike out Srceen and Havo for D1 too, but if I had to pick 5/10 for D1, this would likely be my list too.

[UnaBombaH]

Cheeky Alice works as scumteam actually.

...and then your back to this???

Would first time scum Havo avoid RVS intentionally?

Wasn't that a replacement??? An honest mistake, or another careful attempt at shading?

Ok, I guess I could lynch cheeky today.

I only think alice is scum if cheeky is scum

, so makes more sense to me to lynch cheeky first.

And, if I die, don't ignore the duck.

Yet again, the bolded makes it a 100% contradiction with what you said earlier..

Hey you know what'd be nice? If we caught one scum instead of trying to catch teams

Sad but true.

The resistance to the Alice wagon is the havo push.

This post was otherwise good, but I think you have the wagon on my slot interpreted upside down. And no wonder since the game seems to have stalled almost completely. But I think the solution is in the phase where you guys were pushing for Arc/Cheeky. I have a feeling that Arc was going to be mislynch after all, and Cheeky was a genuine, towny wagon. The wagon on my slot has been a very slow counterwagon to it, but it isn't as plain to see because it has taken a longish time to develop.
It's easier to see from my PoV, and with the luxury of reading the game on one sitting.

Still don't know why people scumreading alice.

Me neither.

I don't want alice lynched until we get a replacement it's pretty simple logic really.

Mmhmm.

11. To recognize that during twilight, the lynched player (if there is one) cannot talk during Twilight , and that no further votes and unvotes will count. Living players may continue to post.

Interesting rule

Yet another, amazingly astute observation! I wouldn't have even noticed this if you hadn't brought it up.

[UnaBombaH]

I don't wanna burn Alice for some reason.

Towny boyscout over here.

also I hate how few townreads I have this game.
Cheeky is getting better though

They aren't though..

I've already said I'm overgamed so expect a shitty game from me for a while. I'll kick ass if I make it past N1 so I'm worth keeping around plus we should try to lynch scum today, not me.

Scummyscummy scumscum.

TChill so scum.

Not even a little.

I don't understand why we're focused on preflip associations. It makes scum hunting much harder on the day with the least amount of information we'll have.

Focus on one. It's much easier.

People can easily talk themselves out of a scum association due to the fact sometimes players don't associate as scum like people think they would.

Cheeky went from one team. Dropped a player. Added a whole new player. Dropped a player.

It's almost like puzzle pieces.

This post is absolutely correct. But. I hand out an exception to myself.
While doing a catch-up, I find it a LOT easier to keep everything coherent in my head, when I sort of "lock-on" (tunnel) to an early scumvibe.
It often starts with something very small, but I try to stick to it.
I had such feelings especially for Arc/Cheeky, but also a point or two for scum!Hop.
While I've been reading the game and posting my thought process along the way, I tend to observe all of my reads from the perspective of "do they fit with X as scum?" with X being my top scumread at the time.
This often helps me realize more easily how wagons are formed etc. but it definitely doesn't stop me from altering and evolving my reads along the road.
Like in this game, Cheeky and Hop have both risen in my eyes as scum-candidates, while Arc has actually gotten closer to the null-line.
Simultaneously I've been able to find solidish townreads for multiple slots, including you, Srceen, Havo, N_M, Lovebird and the worst.
And what do you know?
Thats 7/10 with me included (obv.), and therefore my 3 scumleans are also my 3 "least townreads".
And that means that I'm satisfied with my reads, until proven wrong.

So this is Cheeky setting up her excuse when she lynches a townie.

This is not a townie who’s being objective. At all.

Your entire argument for me being scum is OMGUS.

According to page-numbers I'm getting to status quo..why aren't we lynching her yet?

ok but imo if you see a player associating with others and think

p1/p2 = there is scum in this conversation
p1/p3 = there is scum in this conversation
p1/p4 = there is scum in this conversation
so forth

it's perfectly natural for town to conclude that p1 is likely to be scum yeah?

Ah, what a brilliant way to simplify my rant from above!

UnaBombaH replaces AliceRaider45 effective as soon as he posts. I've added an extra day to the deadline.

And here I am.
One last post after this with a vote included, and I'm ready to sleep.. But no worries, I'll be most active if you decide to keep me around, so no more solo-posting and spamming from me after the next one!

[UnaBombaH]

welcome Una!

Thanks!

VOTE: UnaBombaH

Thanks! L-1 too, I think?
Please don't hammer before reading my catch-up and engaging me.

I WILL NOT CLAIM HOWEVER, SO IF THAT IS ALL ANYONE IS AFTER, HAMMER AWAY AND FACE THE MUSIC TOMORROW.

UNA is such a welcome addition lol.

Keep going.

Thanks!
I hope we are buddies (I think we are), and you really mean this!

_____________________________________________________________________
...and the rest is me spamming my catchup.

I'M WILLING TO LYNCH EITHER OF MY 2/3 SCUMLEANS - HOPKIRK OBVIOUSLY EXCLUDED BECAUSE OF THE VIG-CLAIM.

VOTE: Cheeky

I'd especially like for Srceen/Hop/the worst to give their comments on my reads and catchup.
No need to mass-quote or wall, just put it into your own words.
The thing is though, that I really need you to read my posts with thought for this to work..

-Off to bed now!

[UnaBombaH]

5 days is nothing in the grand scheme of life.

[UnaBombaH]

Interesting.
Just to make sure btw - I found it very likely that Hop wouldn't be able to produce a confirmable shot for us.
No need to drench it all in wine, but whether the vig or scum, I thought it obvious we wouldn't have to deaths tonight.

[UnaBombaH]

Given the player base I am not surprised there was only one kill but

Hop checks out

.

Care to explain the bolded?

[UnaBombaH]

I have this nostalgic feeling about vig shots failing on me n1....... *glance @ una*

And what game is this in reference to?

[UnaBombaH]

Roleblocking seems more likely.

This is what I meant.
Roleblockers are so common on scum nowadays it seems, that claiming vig D1 is often a waste of power.

[UnaBombaH]

That is really bad phrasing Una.

What is, and why?

[UnaBombaH]

I'm not sure where to push.
I felt confident with my read on Cheeky, but was wrong.
Now I'm thinking one of my townreads will have to be wrong too.
Will make clarifying comments tomorrow when it's my day off.

The NK doesn't make sense, and makes Hops Vig-claim look worse IMO, but I'll think about it.

[UnaBombaH]

Lol

VOTE: Tchill

Wow, read my mind..

[UnaBombaH]

I didn't expect his shot to go through due to the fact he was the only PR that claimed.

Screen cc'd and LIED as town, which I hate, but it seems that he may have drawn the NK, idk why else he would have been killed

, so we lucked out on that.

I think this is somewhat flawed.
Out of the two of them Srceen is the one who retracted the claim.
Hopkirk didn't, and in fact talked about who his shot would be all the time.
I am, however, giving Hop the benefit of the doubt for today, and assume he was RB'd then, but then that confirms Srceen as a scumkill.. (I mean, I know there's likely no alternative anyway)

Scum would only ever shoot Srceen in this game for one of two reasons - their reads were worryingly good(?), or they thought he was actually a PR.(??)
I for one can't believe he was actually ever considered a PR-threat after claiming Vig D1 (even if he retracted), so I guess at least one of his scumreads must've been good, or one of his SOLID TOWNREADS WAS BAD.
Now, from my PoV, this sort of streamlines things, as

Srceen only ever voted for Cheeky(town), me(town) and Arc.

VOTE: Arc

[UnaBombaH]

How do you make it so hard for us guys..?

I really need to tryhard if I want to sort Chill/Havo/the worst correctly, don't I?

Please try to towntell guys.
I propose everyone makes an oldfashioned readslist with no more than 1-2 in the same bracket.
I'll do one myself too.

[UnaBombaH]

Good on you wurst.

I'm trying to understand why I'm on so many lyncpools.
Guess it's because I wanted Cheeky lynched? Or?

Like, assuming scum!me, and the effort I wanted to put into this game when replacing in, you guys think Cheeky was the "easiest" or the "least suspicious" push I could've gone for?
I think scum will surely be on the lynch, and were also on my slot at some time or another.

I know the above is very heavy on WIFOM, sorry for that.
Will compensate with a straightforward list later.

[UnaBombaH]

Town: hop, havo

Town lean: worst, love

Scum lean:NM, arc

Scum: UNA

Like, I have a tingling feeling Chill is the read I had wrong. I thought about the Cheeky-flip, and had a realization during the night.

I wanted to see his list before putting any more pressure there, but I think his list has his buddy in the upper brackets.

[UnaBombaH]

Una I think you're great but the time put into this post woulda been better spent on a rudimentary read list

Not agreeing here though.
I can whip up a list based on my current feelings any time now, but I'm a few pages behind in reading, and can't format properly with my phone.

Current thoughts:
Love, N_M
Havo
The worst
Hop, Arc
Chill

[UnaBombaH]

Very convenient you think I was the wrong read after I shined the light on an UNA/?.? Scum team pushing for a quick havo lynch.

Very convenient that I'm scum after I'm the only one who scumleans Hop.
Very convenient for scum!Una that I'm the designated lynch after Cheekys flip.
Very convenient that I'm not lynching Havo today??

[UnaBombaH]

Thanks for making my case easier for me UNA.

In what way??

Oh Chill, my man, I think this is the second time I will call you and your team down D2.
I just hope this isn't the second time I get shot at night by a scum fakeclaiming vig.

[UnaBombaH]

Scum team pushing for a quick havo lynch.

I just realized Chill votes on Havo himself..

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: Tchill
I think I'm ready to vote here.
I feel confident that his buddy is in the upper brackets of his readslist.

[UnaBombaH]

I wouldn't get ahead of yourself with the pride UNA. I'm pretty sure you lost the game you actually got it right didn't you?

I just hope this isn't the second time I get shot at night by a scum fakeclaiming vig.

I remember the loss..

[UnaBombaH]

So am I scum because of someone else's actions here or?

I just am quite certain you are scum.
It's hard to explain to anyone else right now, but if I said that you give off a similar vibe to Blessed Mafia, I wouldn't be stretching the result of my realization too far.

[UnaBombaH]

You're not the only one that's saying hop could be scum... I said it too. I'll vote the guy rn I don't really care. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that brought up the fake claim argument in detail. My gut says he's town.

This pretty much confirms scum!Hop with scum!Chill IMO.
The epitome of a 50/50 read.
Furthermore: I thought I was rather open with my suspicions on Hops claim. Go ISO me if you're doubtful.

[UnaBombaH]

Heh, I tried to softly fake a copguilty on you Chill.
Don't know what to say or do anymore here, since it seems like no one is acting on these.
I might need to reread again, but after failing on Cheeky it's hard to find motivation for it.
I think it's a toneread that Chill is scum.
I can't probably ever explain it sufficiently to you guys, but it feels plain to me.
Therefore I'd rather be lynched today than tomorrow, if we don't lynch in Hop/Chill.

[UnaBombaH]

I don't think N_M is mafia here, similarly how I thought Srceen was obv.town. (#meta or whatever)
Arc CAN be scum, I thought so yesterday too, but I feel that Hop is almost surely scum.
This is more of a "mechanical" read, since I feel like
A) his Vig-claim D1 wasn't towny
B) his N1-result was lackluster (although I knew it would be, ahead of time)
C) outside of his claim, he hasn't been massively towny either. (but then again, we have very few obvious townies in game at all)
This means that it's a pairing of Hop+? for me.
Like I said at the start of the day, Arc would've made sense based solely on D1 votes and wagons, when looking for someone who had reasons to kill Srceen, but I think you might have had a motivation for that too.
I think Srceen might be able to tell your scumgame apart from your towngame, so he would've been a threat.

[UnaBombaH]

Lovebird might be the only "locktown" for me this game left though..

[UnaBombaH]

The worst CAN go either way in the end, but for now I'd call them town for sure.

[UnaBombaH]

Havo isn't a very familiar player to me, so I can't sort them as easily as I feel like I can with you/N_M/Srceen.
I think Havo is the one with the most surprise-potential, but I don't see them as scum as of now..

Maybe I should just succumb to the pressure and we lynch him today, but I assume there's very little to no chance tomorrow isn't a MyLo though?
And I don't want to be alive tomorrow unless we lynch in Chill/Hop/Arc today.

[UnaBombaH]

I just think we are left in the toughest possible MyLo if we lynch in N_M/Havo today. (unless I'm mistaken with one/both of them )

[UnaBombaH]

Oi, N_M.
I know you rarely make exceptions when posting, but could you like...TRY...to...um....give some reasonings?

[UnaBombaH]

Had to make sure redirections are under the "explicitly Non-Normal" -category still..
I wonder why Hop didn't claim the Srceen-kill.

[UnaBombaH]

+1 for the GG-reference.

[UnaBombaH]

Very easy for scum! Una to see if they can lynch cheeky day 1 they can lynch havo day 2. Wouldn't you agree?

BUT THEN THERE's THE PROBLEM OF ME NOT ACTUALLY WANTING TO LYNCH HAVO!!!

It feels like you're trying slide this narrative by every chance ypu get..

[UnaBombaH]

I mean, this is what I had to do to get you on the trenches.

VOTE: Hopkirk - Chill is back to town if this hits scum. If this hits town, we are fucked anyway.

[UnaBombaH]

why am i town now without the mention of worst being the scum partner with hop?

I trust my instinct that you wouldn't buss Hop D2 in this situation. Not with MyLo still very much achievable for you D3.
So if Hop flips scum, you are good to go.
If Hop flips town, you are still one of my main suspects.

[UnaBombaH]

10p games feel very..."tight" for town.
I mean, we can only miss twice and we are in MyLo already.
This is assuming no saves or guilties.
By play alone, I feel like a smaller game might benefit town since there's simply less interactions to analyze..

[UnaBombaH]

^^just a personal thought/rant above - feel free to disagree and disregard.

[UnaBombaH]

I think this is a is is a perspecive slip.
I'll explain why when I'm not on my phone (definitely tonight).

Unless I'm "slipping", a town-"perspecive", I'M not slipping..

[UnaBombaH]

Very easy for scum! Una to see if they can lynch cheeky day 1 they can lynch havo day 2. Wouldn't you agree?

BUT THEN THERE's THE PROBLEM OF ME NOT ACTUALLY WANTING TO LYNCH HAVO!!!

It feels like you're trying slide this narrative by every chance ypu get..

I mean, this is what I had to do to get you on the trenches.

VOTE: Hopkirk - Chill is back to town if this hits scum. If this hits town, we are fucked anyway.

ty. VOTE: Una

Can I get your reasoning on this!?
Like, I think worst is town and then he comes up with a badly fake setup-analysis and an even worse vote..

[UnaBombaH]

You just accused tch of forcing a narrative then voted someone else so....??

Town often do this when they tunnel.

[UnaBombaH]

Particularly the latter, I really wanna talk through this shit because I have no experience with closed Normals.

I also asked people for their thoughts and feedback. Everyone ignored it which is w/e but you actually actively called it bad without acknowledging me asking for feedback so

Scum motivation+++

I missed this part, and I'm not very good at setups myself, BUT I think 7v3 would be so swingy (especially with a speculated vig) and unbalances to boot..
Like, that is why I speculated the part about 10p games in general - even 8-2 seems "easier" for scum imo.
Newbie games are semi-open which helps narrow things down a bit.
I think 8-2 with a goon+RB seems likely.

[UnaBombaH]

After a bit more pondering, I've come even further with the decision that I want Hop lynched today.
Scum!Hop would clear Chill for me, and possibly fit scum!worst as a buddy after all (??).
On the other hand, town!Hop would scuminate Chill and in the contrast clear the worst for me.

I feel comfortable drawing these associations.

[UnaBombaH]

@arc, havo, N_M, Lovebird - I hope you guys catch up and then communicate as clearly as possible who you are willing to vote as lynch today. Even better if you are willing to actually switch your vote, and see where the lines are drawn then.
I think it will help us greatly, if not today, then tomorrow.

[UnaBombaH]

I do not know what Hop means with those numbers, but apparently they make someone town, and someone scum..?

[UnaBombaH]

Hard defending before anyone attacks me is kind of eh. Setting the tone might have value, but it's auto-lose if people intend to attack me since TW was posting early today.

Um...anyone else see this being posted into the scum-PT?

[UnaBombaH]

Like, before people jump off their seats - I mean that it's easily misinterpretable as a slip in to the wrong thread, not that it necessarily is!

[UnaBombaH]

I said I meant it as a joke, no need to worry!

[UnaBombaH]

...and I never took my coat..

[UnaBombaH]

I mean, I haven't even sacrificed too much of a thought for scum!the worst..

I thought he was a solid town until a few pages ago.

[UnaBombaH]

I need to reread him too then.

[UnaBombaH]

Some of us have to sleep..I have to leave for work soon again..

[UnaBombaH]

I don't think I'm willing to compromise today.
If we lynch TW today, tomorrow is already LyLo.

[UnaBombaH]

*mylo, obv

[UnaBombaH]

I'll make an actual post if necessary, but I think Hop HAS to be the lynch today.

[UnaBombaH]

I think we lynch Hop because he will never be the NK here.
Town!Hop has no power left to threaten scum, and offers too much wine for a MyLo.
No reason to no lynch today, that is for tomorrow if we miss with Hop.
We also don't risk wagoning any town-PRs with his lynch.

The scum will either kill Lovebird, or help us with their NK narrowing the pool.
All in all, Hop-lynch offers us the best chances for tomorrow.

[UnaBombaH]

Actually pushing an entirely mechanical lynch makes me even more happy with lynching you my friend

I can absolutely see myself lynched here, and I've come to terms with it ever since Cheeky flipped green.
I just want people to realize that scum are pushing for a win tomorrow, and unless we have an investigative with some magnificent results, it's all up to reads.
And as we have seen so far, our reads haven't really been that coherent for the whole town..

I'm not pushing for a "mechanical" lynch here though - I've said before that I think Hop is scum and voted there.

I DO HOWEVER THINK THAT THE LYNCH IS CORRECT FROM A MECHANICAL STANDPOINT TOO.

[UnaBombaH]

Hop has no way to confirm themselves anymore (according to themselves), and I find it very very unlikely that a claim that got called suspicious/pinged scum for at least two players, was also a "Vig" who's shot didn't go through..

[UnaBombaH]

Funnily enough, the ONLY positive argument that could be made for Hop is that he didn't claim the Srceen-kill.
Scum!Hop knows it was their factional NK, so why not claim it straight up?
UNVOTE:

I'll have to think about this once more.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm yet again busy at work, but shiet if this didn't now occupy my brain..

Scum!Hop having already claimed Vig wouldn't need to NOT claim the kill.
Srceen would've actually made even more sense as a Vig-kill, than it does as scum-kill. (IMO)
The Vig-claim would've given some protection against potential Gunsmith/Tracker/Watcher -situations, so committing the NK on Srceen AND claiming it would've been the right play for scum!Hop..RIGHT?

I tried to look at it from the opposite perspective -

WHAT REASON DOES SCUM!HOP HAVE FOR NOT CLAIMING THE KILL?

I can't think of a reason right now, especially since they haven't backpedaled on their claim at all.

[UnaBombaH]

Why would scum ever kill Srceen?

[UnaBombaH]

And who in their right mind would've protected the worst N1?
Like, assuming we have a Doc, a claimed Vig makes a hell of a lot more sense.

[UnaBombaH]

Ah, Jailkeeper protects from a kill too though?
JK on the worst might make sense.

[UnaBombaH]

Was I right on my initial 180-turn on Chill after all?
Not_Mafia/Arc/LoveBird/Havo - in that order - ought to give updated reads before days end.
100% necessary before we lynch anyone.

[UnaBombaH]

P sure scum rb is the occam's razor here my friend

True, but I'm thinking about scenarios where scum have no reason to be afraid of the vig/don't have a RB.
In those scenarios a JK is the farthest I'm willing to suspend my disbelief.

[UnaBombaH]

The more we plan out as town the more scum get to plan out also. No reason to think scum HAVE to push for a win tomorrow especially if we're planning for them not to be able to.

My point was mainly that by not lynching we only delay the inevitable, and by lynching today, we keep the decision of who dies next within the hands of a majority, not the minority..
No-lynching might be viable tomorrow if we miss today, but no-lynching today doesn't feel right to me.

[UnaBombaH]

Ahem guys.
You all got me confused here.

[UnaBombaH]

I thought Cheeky was surely scum -> I pushed for their lynch heavily -> they flip green -> I feel like all of my reads must be shit, other than Chill and Srceen because I feel like I know them -> Srceen was NK'd.

I thought Chill was pretty obviously town D1 -> then I started to notice things that gave me scumvibes, let's call it gut -> I used that to squeeze discussion and interactions -> I went back to townleaning him -> I now feel like he is even better at scum than I already thought, and I'm fucked.

I thought Hopkirk was clearly scum fakeclaiming Vig -> there was no second nightkill, so I felt like "exactly" -> I finally started to think about Srceen as the kill and Hop NOT claiming it -> I don't think it fits scum!Hop.

I thought I had the worst figured out, and had a solid townread on them -> I got bashed for my mistaken read on Cheeky -> I started to second guess myself -> I started to humor the idea on scum!the worst -> I'm fking confused.

On top of these we have N_M lurking and not saying ANYTHING that helps ANYONE ELSE THAN HIMSELF.
I had him as "obv.town" D1, but seeing as how my D1 reads turned out..!

[UnaBombaH]

I mean: in a 10p game, with 8 alive, I have exactly 0 VERY SOLID townreads left.
And while I think Hop should actually be town with how N1 turned out (and what he claimed to have done), he was indeed my main-scumread after Cheeky (and Arc to some extent).

Speaking of Arc, they have given me no reason to townread them, but at the same time, I feel like they are just a lynchbait.

[UnaBombaH]

I think I'm going to want the worst lynched after all. Just because I feel like I have to believe Hops claim for now, and he claims to have shot there.
I feel like lynching worst leaves us with a more clear playing field anyway.
I assume tomorrow is going to be all about scum wanting me to be the mislynch, so that should make it easier for me to find the scum!

[UnaBombaH]

I think my lynchpool is too large, but for now, I'm not willing to lynch outside of:

the worst, Hopkirk
Chill
N_M

...in that order of preference for lynch.

TW/Hop is a "this-or-that" in my mind in the sense that I want to see whether Hop is a Vig or not, OR I just want to see what the worst flips.

Both are info that would really help me solve the game.

Chill I'm still very paranoid of.
N_M has very little value in terms of sorting other slots, but I think he is least likely for flipping scum out of the lot.

Which means that Havo, Lovebird and Arc are the only ones I don't want ever lynched today.
Mainly because I feel like any of them flipping isn't going to help me sort anyone else.

[UnaBombaH]

I think our lynchpools are upside down

I'm getting NK'd and Hop is really obviously town--join me on Chill?

With you above him in my lynchpool, and you suggesting a lynch on him?

I think I'll wait for feedback outside of my pool too..

[UnaBombaH]

Can you scum hunt, please? All you doing is Nero's job.

Can we all just acknowledge this post and realize that Arc has no idea who are even playing..
Trying to look towny by nudging others to scumhunt..

[UnaBombaH]

Ahem guys.
You all got me confused here.

This is not helping my town read on you. Lol.

I was trying to convey a tone for my next post.
The tone was "humorous, yet really frustrated".

[UnaBombaH]

Hop what do you think about the clear from your lack of claiming the screen kill?

There’s a lot about Nite 1 that doesn’t make sense. But we just don’t have enough info yet to decipher it. I feel like I’m wasting time every time my brain drifts back to it.

I sort of agree because I used too many braincells by thinking about it before.
BUT.

Give me a case where it's beneficial for scum!Hop NOT to claim the Srceen-kill.

1. Assuming scum!Hop, he would've certainly been the one to actually carry out the kill anyway. (so tracker/watcher -fear doesn't answer the question)
2. Town!JK or Roleblocker has no reason to block him N1.
3. In case of an investigative-guilty on him (Cop of some kind) it doesn't matter if he claims to have done it or not.
4. He didn't backpedal on his Vig-claim at all, so he didn't get "cold feet" anyway.

The only thought I had was that in case of a town protective role, they might be afraid of a "clear" coming from their save on someone, but I doubt that would merit not claiming the kill for themselves.

[UnaBombaH]

Fck me with a gay raccoon.

[UnaBombaH]

I mean, I almost feel like we now SHOULD lynch Havo.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[UnaBombaH]

Ahem.
So it is LyLo then.

[UnaBombaH]

Chill, Havo, the worst, Arc.

[UnaBombaH]

Anyone wanna try and claim being neighbored N1?

[UnaBombaH]

I can go first too, but I'll let you run the show Ducky. (I bet the scum are Chill and Havo after all)

I also want us to do this fully now that we are going to do it.
Full claims, WITH results, as soon as possible when asked to claim.

[UnaBombaH]

I am a bland Vanilla Townie.
And even if I said we should claim results too, I'll keep mine a secret..

Now it's Arcs tuon?

[UnaBombaH]

I honestly don't even care who goes next, but I want you to be last, because someone will have CC you being a neighbour for them to discredit your later claim/results.

Lets see who has the Cahones!

[UnaBombaH]

Unfortunately the scumfuck who killed Lovebird knows they're the scumfuck who killed Lovebird soooo we'll see how that goes down.

..but the scumfuck will have to fakeclaim SOMETHING VERY PROFOUND to be able to discredit you - they'd have to "fake an entire thread" and conversation for D2 with Lovebird.

I'm interested in seeing where this goes.

[UnaBombaH]

I notice a simple solution here.
Havo+Chill is scum, lock and load.
GJ Ducky.
Arc, please make sure to vote in Chill/Havo, or NOT VOTE until you agree.

[UnaBombaH]

Occams Razor really lock Havo as scum, and at the same time the worst as town:

Ninja is not a normal modifier to town.

Havo claiming Town!Ninja-ANYTHING makes them scum. Period.

[UnaBombaH]

This means that scum likely have a roleblocker in Havo too, which explains

WHY (NOW CONFIRMED) TOWN!VIG-HOPS SHOT DIDN'T GO THROUGH ON THE WORST.

!!!!!Notice how this doesn't automatically "clear" Ducky, but once we lynch Havo and they flip scum, they are obviously cleared (and promptly nightkilled too )!!!!!

[UnaBombaH]

I think scum did a mistake in killing Hop last night.
That Vig-flip finally solidified my scumread on Chill, and your "guilty" on Havo fits that..

What seems to be the cruelest joke here though, is that N_M was right all along!
We should've lynched Havo!

[UnaBombaH]

TheWorst roleblocked Love, Una killed Screen. This all fits together like a jigsaw puzzle. And makes sense why town has 3 PRs.

Hmmm, ok.

No i don't necessarily think that's true havo. I think the worst or UNA rb'd hop. Love didn't shoot night one (why the hell does a weak role target anyone night one).

..I like how Chill TRIES to keep both of your heads above water still, but Havo fcked up with that Ninja-claim.
You refusing to acknowledge that, Chill, cements you as scum too..

[UnaBombaH]

If you're asking me to take a side based on the illegal modifier or based on play through days 1 and 2, night kills included...

It's an easy decision.

Yea, it should be.

FOLLOW THE NORMAL GUIDELINES.

There is a reason why they exist - there would be no reason to play Normals if you would have absolutely 0 chance to know beforehand what kind of apeshit-shenanigans could happen.

[UnaBombaH]

This is like arguing that your favorite team should be given a goal in football after it getting disqualified..like, the rules say it didn't count, so it doesn't.
I know it pains to lose as scum after I have played a horrible towngame (yet again), but I find the tiniest bit of comfort in that I got scumvibes from your posting through-out the game.
I just need to not hesitate the next time.

[UnaBombaH]

Like you've literally just town cleared the worst because?

No, I have scumlocked Havo BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN CLAIM BEING IMPOSSIBLE.
And when they flip scum, the worst makes sense only as town.
The worst/Havo -scumteam would win today if the worst guiltied someone like me, rather than bussed their buddy.
The last scum is obv. between you and arc then, but I HAVE claimed scum-hunches from you throughout the game, so....

[UnaBombaH]

Like, I'm fine with all the rest of us shutting up if we leave the thread as is for Arc to decide.
If Havo isn't lynched with a claim like that, then Arc deserves the loss as much as I do.

[UnaBombaH]

The fact that's your MAIN issue is ridiculous. It's lazy. You want to town clear the worst because havo is scum but havo is scum because of a "slip".

No, you see, this argument is invalid.
It wasn't a slip.
He didn't retract the modifier.
Now if this wasn't a normal game, this would weight less than jackshit.
But he has claimed a role that is impossible for town, and therefore he is scum.
He made a hasty mistake? Then why not retract it? Town has no reason to make a false claim here.
Now, accept the fact that Havo is a lost cause, and try to win tomorrow in a 3p LyLo with me and Arc.
You still have a very good chance to win, considering how much he has scumread me throughout the game.

[UnaBombaH]

...because there's nothing to solve right now.
Havo is scum. Period.
When tomorrow comes, it's you, me and arc.
Then I will genuinely try to make posts that sort and solve, but the fact remains that I scumread you already.
And you refusing to accept Havos claim as impossible helps lock that for me too.
You are sharp and know better than to actually humor Havos claim.

[UnaBombaH]

Hats off to Chill for trying!

[UnaBombaH]

Like, discussing with scum gives me no value.
If you can condense your "questions" towards me in a simple fashion, something like a lost of 1./2./3. I'll either answer them, or show how WIFOMy and scummy they are.

[UnaBombaH]

Even the fact that you had to say "why would scum!X ever kill town!Y" previously today is an obvious scumtell.
That sentence is always fun to entertain from your own PoV, but it's ALWAYS WIFOM. ALWAYS.

[UnaBombaH]

Good calm read then, Arc?

VOTE: Havo

[UnaBombaH]

Nah, I just feel bad that the game was actually finally "closed" by a technicality..
I still hold it in my mind that I can gutread Chill rather well - I just need to be more confident about it and build a case for it so that others can follow me on it too.

[UnaBombaH]

VOTE: Tchill - if it was SOMEHOW you Ducky, congrats are in order!

[UnaBombaH]

Ninja is actually OK for town now!
They declared the changed some time ago.

[UnaBombaH]

I'll try to read Chills ISO in search of the nuances that pinged me as scum.
I wasn't just yapping my mouth at you - I had a legitimate scumhunch.
I just suck when it comes to trying to put it into words..
Similarly I'll need to reread the part where you managed to momentarily turn my read around, just to make sure it doesn't happen again..!
WP guys!

[UnaBombaH]

50 percent finding scum 50 percent convincing everyone to lynch scum lol.

Oh, I know I lack the most important part!

[UnaBombaH]

We should have a three-headed hydra.
"The worst Chill-Bomber"

[UnaBombaH]

lol

i may start modding soon. seems kinda difficult but ive got a few ideas in mind.

I want to get into modding too, but I feel like the process beforehand takes too long..
I'll propably try to get started next week with an open or a newbie..

[UnaBombaH]

Sorry that I was not here earlier. VC coming soon.

I'm so excited to see what is the outcome! O_O

[UnaBombaH]

...most interested in seeing the scum-PT and the assumed Dead/Spectator -thread.

[UnaBombaH]

I love mastina ranting..