Changes to Normal Games

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Post Post #111  (isolation #0)  » Fri May 11, 2018 12:16 pm

In post 47, Mathdino wrote:My favourite theme games have essentially been Normals with flavour wrapped on.

This makes me smile because I haven't really done much in the way of fancy flavor mechanics in any games yet, and it's nice to know someone enjoys those. I definitely intend to buck that trend sometime though.
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Post Post #112  (isolation #1)  » Fri May 11, 2018 12:27 pm

In post 66, Derpy Hooves wrote:
In post 61, northsidegal wrote:If people are taking too long for making their own changes to move forward, isn't that their problem and not the NRG's?

in my experiences with game review, all of my delays came because of the reviewers taking too long to come back and check the thread. they also are very nitpicky about things. All of my role PMs have been copied from previously approved role pms yet I get asked to make changes for some reason. My last game took around 5 weeks to be approved and it was nearly identical to a game I had previously ran on another account except I made minor changes. That time frame is completely unacceptable especially since there was a lack of approved games.

we need to replace the current reviewers and bring in new blood. Especially one reviewer who I won't name by name, she approves way to many unbalanced games imo

I agree that reviews stall frequently due to non-presence of reviewers, in all departments. I think we should make it an unspoken rule that reviewers should constantly check threads for reviews they are a part of (once a day minimum)
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Post Post #141  (isolation #2)  » Mon May 14, 2018 12:32 pm

In post 138, Not Known 15 wrote:
In post 137, Mathdino wrote:I use Activated Innocent Child for the kind that you activate, and just Innocent Child or D1 Innocent Child for the automatic ones.

D1 Innocent Child is not whitelisted... unfortunately. Only Night Specific modifiers are... not Day Specific.
But Yes Activated Innocent Child would be ok, too.
What do you think about Informed?

I think day modifiers are also included, right? I think I've seen novice dayvig
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Post Post #144  (isolation #3)  » Sun May 20, 2018 12:16 pm

In post 143, callforjudgement wrote:Under current guidelines, we have Activated Innocent Child (triggers on request), and Innocent Child (triggers at the start of D1).

The main weirdness is that you can have an Innocent Child variant that becomes alignment-confirmed at the start of a Night, but not at the start of a Day other than D1.

(Also, Dayvig is not Normal, and IMO should not be Normal. It's a fine role for Themes, but IMO the day should be clearly separate from the night in a Normal.)

I've seen Day X (not 1) IC in some normals
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Post Post #147  (isolation #4)  » Tue May 29, 2018 10:52 am

I like the stipulation about being the last one alive in a group, makes a town traffic analyst lose power if one mafia remains, I look forward to seeing it in action. Other roles/modifiers are nice but this one excites me
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Post Post #190  (isolation #5)  » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:33 pm

Is a traitor that doesn’t know their scum partners normal still?
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Post Post #200  (isolation #6)  » Wed May 15, 2019 3:43 pm

At this point it looks like "jailkeeper" has been transition from a role to a concept
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Post Post #214  (isolation #7)  » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:33 am

That's not what I meant
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Post Post #217  (isolation #8)  » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:04 am

Has there been discussion of including the Personal modifier in the normal whitelist?
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Post Post #220  (isolation #9)  » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:15 pm

What?
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Post Post #241  (isolation #10)  » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:24 am

You can just call a role that watches or voyeurs itself a “self-ability/self-targeting ability” role

Also I think Jailor is a weird role because of how in probably most utilizations it would have to pre-determine a target during the day phase, necessitating player mindfulness
Honestly it doesn’t feel like it fits the Normal scope
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Post Post #245  (isolation #11)  » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:34 am

Following Ircher’s response I think another issue with the role is how it creates only a temporary neighborhood, I think that kinda doesn’t fit what Normals aim for
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Post Post #266  (isolation #12)  » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:38 am

P sure Seraph Knight is fixed BG but whatever
Speaking of BG I recall once being told BG is a redirection of a kill onto the user, does that mean it shouldn’t be normal? FYI this is a joke but if we want to get serious about it I don’t mind.
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Post Post #299  (isolation #13)  » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:31 pm

In post 294, Alisae wrote:
In post 291, Alisae wrote:Why is the role fun to play?
I don’t get it maybe I don’t see the fun in the role.

This is important btw
Its super important to make sure your game is going to be fun to play.

I get the design elements behind it and the depth it allows for, but if its not a fun role to play, who cares

I played it once and although I was barely in the game long myself it was still fun knowing the picture of the game and trying to utilize it.
Tbh I kinda wanna roll Traitor again some day just to try my hand at it for realsies
Plus there’s trying to indicate your identity to your team. Tbh I think making Traitor recruitable, on top of other things that maybe feel non normal, hurts the idea of scum having to be careful around the traitor
I liked what Boonskiies did in one of his games where iirc he made it so the traitors (cos multiball) had to target their team to get recruited. Obviously this wouldn’t work perfectly with how it is supposed to know their identities but like maybe give the traitor some ability that enable that, like Neighborizer (but prolly make it Novice or something?)
Also I remember that Large Normal you modded with Frogger where the mafia had a cop to find their traitor, I liked that
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Post Post #316  (isolation #14)  » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:10 pm

In post 302, Wake88 wrote:Could Bomb be normalized, perchance?

If NK'd the Bomb also takes out its attacker, which could be neat.

In post 304, Wake88 wrote:Maybe Paranoid Gun Owner instead to make it not just dangerous for Mafia? Another reactive one-time killing role could be neat.

I like this tbh
maybe a Bomb that has to be turned on to work properly rather than just being a passive role would be more balanced
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Post Post #317  (isolation #15)  » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:12 pm

In post 308, skitter30 wrote:How are you envisioning that working?

Like if that role waa tracked, what would you seem

I'd assume a random target/one player that dies that night
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Post Post #318  (isolation #16)  » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:12 pm

In post 315, Amrun wrote:I agree Ninja shouldn’t be normal. I was shocked it was when I checked.

why
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Post Post #409  (isolation #17)  » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:21 pm

In post 322, Amrun wrote:Idk I just feel like if you track X to nowhere in a normal you shouldn’t have to speculate “but what if they’re a ninja?”

That’s for themes.

Untrustworthy results is fine in Normals, other wise Gunsmith wouldn’t be normal
The reason Godfather got canned as I see it is it screwed with how the game was played too much
Ninja doesn’t really do that to the extent GF does. Worst I see is a Watcher seeing someone visit a Ninja’d kill and get a false guilty

And like your given scenario isn’t that significant because Ninja isn’t meant to counter Tracker, it’s meant to counter Watcher. So Tracker should not need to think that hard about it.
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Post Post #411  (isolation #18)  » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:25 pm

In post 336, Amrun wrote:
In post 330, TemporalLich wrote:
In post 329, RadiantCowbells wrote:What do you mean by 328
Instead of having the permitted roles and mechanics outline the principles and expectations of Normal, have the principles and expectations of Normal outline the permitted roles and mechanics.

There's BooneyToonz if you want a bottom-up Normal game.


I completely agree. We need to agree on what, fundamentally, IS the concept of a normal game, and then allow/disallow roles based on their adherence to that concept.

Axe ninja and Miller. They’re not needed and contradict the idea of Normal IMO.

Vanillizer, on the other hand, does not, IMO. At this point in time the “normal” designation seems arbitrary.

Personally, I would also axe multitasking! But that’s more debatable.

P-edit: Yes, it would be powerful. That’s a question of balance, not which roles are normal. Currently, ungated cops are not usually used, and that trend would continue.

Tbh what grounds do you consider vanillaizer normal by
Like I wouldn’t want to be able to lose my role in a Normal, that just doesn’t seem fun at all
That seems like solid reason for it to not be normal
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Post Post #414  (isolation #19)  » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:52 pm

In post 363, TemporalLich wrote:
In post 355, RadiantCowbells wrote:Most of those can already be made
Loyalblocker isn't the same thing as Loyal Roleblocker for example.

Here's how I'd define the variant roles:

Loyalblocker - Make a player unable to target players that they don't share an alignment with for the night (effectively making them Loyal for the night, or roleblocking them if they target outside their alignment)
1-shot Ascetic - Immune to non-kill actions the first night they are targeted by a non-kill action.
Strongman as a modifier - A modifier making you ignore roleblocking, protection, rolestopping, and immunities. Does not allow targeting commuting commuters.
Superstar - IC without the innocent part i.e. it doesn't confirm alignment. A variant of this might be publically revealing your role as if you were public role copped.
Follower-Cop - A weakened role cop that gets results in the term of a Follower. (probably a bad name tbh since it sounds like a hybrid role)

pedit: yeah confusing roles like Town 1-shot Weak Loyal Combined Neighborizer Friendly Neighbor isn't really normal and the normalcy part of the reviews should weed that out imo.

I prefer the idea of inherent multitasking being something the mod puts in the ruleset imo

I think Multitasking should go the way of Encryptor where you can have unannounced multitasking through the modifier or have announced multitasking. I especially want this because Multitasking X can be a soft/hard guilty to a Role Cop.
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Post Post #419  (isolation #20)  » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:38 pm

Cop is assumed to be trustworthy, and GF changes that in a way that is hard to play around I guess
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Post Post #434  (isolation #21)  » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:43 pm

In post 426, gobbledygook wrote:I will hard veto and lobby against any game especially normals to include Vanillalizer as a role. That role is so incredibly unfun to play against as town.

MAFIA vanillaizer sure. Town vanillaizer can be interesting (though I still firmly believe it to be not-normal).
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Post Post #435  (isolation #22)  » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:44 pm

What Town roles would wear a suit btw
I like the idea but imo it has very limited unique utility
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Post Post #438  (isolation #23)  » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:49 am

Alright, so Cops would pretty clearly like donuts, what about some other roles?
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Post Post #440  (isolation #24)  » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:52 am

Says the guy lobbying for Normalized Vanillaizer
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Post Post #445  (isolation #25)  » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:55 pm

In post 443, Amrun wrote:
In post 440, Gamma Emerald wrote:Says the guy lobbying for Normalized Vanillaizer


A vanillaizer is a long standing role that everyone is familiar with.

These new variants change how we think about the game and would have people needing to look them up, so they’re not normal. Totally viable roles though.

Wasn't Gunsmith like that when it was introduced?
And "long standing" + "familiar" doesn't make it fair at all.
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Post Post #495  (isolation #26)  » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:30 pm

Pretty sure the “can’t target the same person twice” modifier is called Hideous.
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