Mini Normal 2003: donezo

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same, they won me over during our conversation

I think my lynchpool currently is

{NM}
{Una, Tchill}

make of that what you will

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incorrect, I am the NK
sorry.

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I think our lynchpools are upside down

I'm getting NK'd and Hop is really obviously town--join me on Chill?

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VOTE: Tchill13

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Nero is due for a prod.

Can you scum hunt, please? All you doing is Nero's job.

Laughed harder than I should have

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i mean if they're gonna be useless.. shrug

starting to think arc is less likely to be scum than nm, and Havo is less likely to be scum
his reads are so opposite to mine tho fml

Ok who’s your most town read?

Who’s your most scum read?

Who’s lynch gives us the most info?

Hop.
Probably Tch then Una
Una or Tch.

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Intent to lolhammer

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Restating intent to lolhammer

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Hammering in a bit with no claim

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Ohhhh my bad

VOTE: Not_Not_Mafia

still think ur great

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Thanks Lovebird now I'm gonna have anxiety until the flip is posted...

(btw don't think we're meant to twilight talk)

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OH MY BAD

Okay I misread that rule

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I was neighbourised N1. also appears I was roleblocked last night, and my conftown Hopkirk was killed. Not happy.

Let's hear your gamesolve Tch.

[the worst]

Got some spicy goss btw.

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I KNOW WHO THE GUILTY WAS

So any vote before I confirm will be treated as a scumclaim <3

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gogogo everyone post now, I'll spill the beans when I've had my fill of drama

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Nah was talking to her during the night, why?

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Still waiting for your explanation of your scumteam.

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the worst is being force replaced

nero is being forced to FIGHT ME BISH

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thank u

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If you can do me a favour and explain your town motivation in withholding your theory I would really appreciate it.

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You seem nervous

i have facts you have theories

Alright let's compromise. Who do you think my late friend Lovebird visited ln and why?

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Why do you scumread Una so strongly?

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Quick short responses with good clarify for extra towncred

Talk to me about Havo and Tch too

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Hmm might have something else juicy

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Are we go?

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Got another result. Wasn't RB'd just dumb as hell

I also have a reeeeeally good theory and I think I won the game. So let's talk through likely scumteams then massclaim then lynch some scumfucks right??

What's new everyone?
Tch in particular--gonna need a good case from you on how you charged into LyLo absolutely convinced on Una/Arc scumteam

[the worst]

I have 1 guilty
1 softguilty by associations
1 other undisclosed result
1 strong townread

Why aren't people trying to get my attention?

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We should massclaim!! That'll be fun and productive
Shotgun going last


ArcAngel first

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You may go Una

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Popcorn it if you'd like! Let's have fun with this.

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EXACTLY

Unfortunately the scumfuck who killed Lovebird knows they're the scumfuck who killed Lovebird soooo we'll see how that goes down.

I am like a self spewed town investigation role tho so there's that....

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you choose who goes next! c:

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who do you think & why?
gimme a full scumteam based on who's left

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ALSO ARC
why were you so firm & quick in saying you strongly did not want to claim day 1?

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Una, wanna case Tch/Havo for me?

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you and una should talk about your reasons for thinking una is scum, are you comfortable asking him directly to explain his actions?

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TPRs lucked in BIG TIME this game. If Love hadn't picked me and I hadn't got a clean clear on Hop we wouldn't be in such a good spot.

Just waiting for Havo to claim now, then ig I'll spill the beans unless Una and Arc wanna talk it out a bit more

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I’m at a wedding. So it’ll probably Be tomorrow before I can post much.

I will have plenty to say.

I’m a Ninja Jailkeeper.

Nite 1 I Jailed Tchill
Nite 2 I Jailed Arc

1. why?
2. why?

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i claim ur mom

VOTE: Havo

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will smash a quality post in a min

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I am a town two-shot rolecop. n1 targeted hopkirk to confirm vig status. n2 I was meant to check one of una/tch but at the last moment I remembered Arc's comments about claiming on d1 and switched to her. seems I woulda got "vanilla" from any of the 3 but I'm glad we avoided the risk of fakeclaims due to me holding the thread hostage like that.

n1 I was also targeted by Lovebird, but only joined the pt at the end of the next day phase. I was hard TRing Lovebird but still flipped the fuck out with paranoia she might be scum so that was fun, D2 this game was not fun for me


anyway I am pleased to announce the following.

FIRSTLY : Arc is indeed vanilla, either townie or goon. I think she is vanilla town.
SECONDLY : my dudette Lovebird visited Havo last night and is now dead. she was:-
1. largely townread
2. a weak role and
3. clearly not the scum kill (hopkirk)


so

bye Havo

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also Tchill is almost certainly Havo's partner.

they have never voted for each other, and I'll do a 2p ISO in a sec to show their interactions
he also melted down, flipped out and lurked when I held the thread hostage (which was highly pro town and if you disagree we can have a slap fight post game)
confscum Havo used him as a n1 target which is highly classic scum junk

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I’m a

Ninja

Jailkeeper.

genuine real life scumslip in action and we also don't have a tracker in the setup
tfw the part of your role that is clearly a setup spec wifom meme gets you killed

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also like

1x : 2-shot rolecop (all results except like locktown (e.g. vig) are nai)
1x : 2-shot weak neighbouriser (dies if it gets a guilty)
1x : 1-shot vig (let's be real--will almost always hit a townie)
5x : vt

vs

1x : ninja jk
1x : maf goon


is actually well balanced

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I'll let my dudes Arc and Una come in here and enjoy this victory with me now [:

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I’m a

Ninja

Jailkeeper.

genuine real life scumslip in action and we also don't have a tracker in the setup
tfw the part of your role that is clearly a setup spec wifom meme gets you killed

This is garbage.

most objective part of my statement
you're not implying anything else is garbage but you like LITERALLY just scum slipped within the context of normal games
i didn't think it was possible until rn



pedit: cute

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I guess you're also a PGO which is what killed Lovebird?

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good point, lucky NKA with occam's razor based on a single post out of context has never failed anyone
:3 ~

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still waiting for your explanation on how

1) scum!tw was neighbourised by a weak neighbouriser
2) if scum!tw was not neighbourised who was and why haven't they cc'd
3) how you died

less bullshit more facts pls

pedit: workin on the iso

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typo--how she died

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actually massive ISOwallposts aren't my style, Una and Arc are smart.
Havo is now lockscum.
I'll be voteparking here d3 and encourage him to crossvote to confirm one of us is scum

the only dichotomy to me is the possibility of:
- a Havo/Una team (townreading Una right now but Havo/Una ISO is lukewarm)
- a Havo/Arc team (read: bullshit)


for the record if we hadn't lucked in with results, I think you guys would have won.

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Havz check your PT

@mod

is quoting direct from a PT 'kosher'?

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also while I'm on a rollllllllllll:

THIS SHIT IS WAY OUTSIDE MY SCUM RANGE

[/selfmeta]

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@mod is quoting direct from a PT 'kosher'?

depends if you want to get modkilled. So no.

can you confirm this would instantly cause a scum win

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ah wonderful, my havo/tch first impressions were on the money

just waiting on una and arc now

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Here's where I'm at.

Whats more believable? Two town investigatives in a game with only 2 scum or

A literal scum slip that could have been avoided by checking the wiki.

Lmao.

You been pushing tchill/havo the whole game. That's too long in a game where screen and hop were night killed.

you're not denying havo just slipped his scum role tho

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like following your theory isn't the correct conclusion

havo = lockscum
tw = probscum

ergo, havo/tw team and tw is hard bussing??

talk me thru this bro

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i fluked getting an alignment result by targeting hopkirk n1 tbh, rolecop=/=scum catcher
the weak neighbouriser can get exactly two innocent results, one innocent/one scum (plus -1 townie), or one scum (plus -1 townie)

not seeing why you're even bothering throwing shade at my balance comment? it's literally correct

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like BEST CASE SCENARIO in this setup =

3 town clears, 1 caught scum
(e.g. love catches two townies, i catch vig + ninja)

that's .... a tiny bit better than a sane cop.

vs a scum rb role that seems fine to me

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like following your theory isn't the correct conclusion

havo = lockscum
tw = probscum

ergo, havo/tw team and tw is hard bussing??

talk me thru this bro

tchill get back to me on this.

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also I'd gladly 2v1 you scumfucks all day but I will need to go irl at some point

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like following your theory isn't the correct conclusion

havo = lockscum
tw = probscum

ergo, havo/tw team and tw is hard bussing??

talk me thru this bro

tchill get back to me on this.

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Here's where I'm at.

Whats more believable? Two town investigatives in a game with only 2 scum or

A literal scum slip that could have been avoided by checking the wiki.

Lmao.

You been pushing tchill/havo the whole game. That's too long in a game where screen and hop were night killed.

you're not denying havo just slipped his scum role tho

meant to quote this one

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vig hits town 78% of the time n1 and vigs almost unanimously play the hero and forget to actually scumhunt
1 shot vig is actually an anti town role imo
weak also has to die to get a scum result so?? these are anti town and flawed roles

(no disrespect--Hop was also pretty clearly down by d2 imo but going for me n1 after scarcely interacting with me was a bit disappointing)

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like BEST CASE SCENARIO in this setup =

3 town clears, 1 caught scum
(e.g. love catches two townies, i catch vig + ninja)

that's .... a tiny bit better than a sane cop.

vs a scum rb role that seems fine to me

So 3 town clears in a game of 10, would come Day 3, where the game is likely down to 7 players left isn’t OP?
And then add a Vig and a rolecop to that.

this included the rolecop tho?

[the worst]

vig hits town 78% of the time n1

75% sorry

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oh yeah havocado crossvote me before you go c:

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I don't see any motivation in tacking on an illegal modifier.

this game has been reviewed. this is a scum role.

I don't see motivation in havo killing hop.

NKA via occam's razor is stupid, it is within ANYONE'S scum range to be like "ohey let's kill x for wifom"

I don't see any motivation in havo not bringing NM to lylo when he easily could have.

this explains your sudden d2 policy turn on nm, like it was either him or havo d2

I don't see any motivation in havo choosing to let good, active townies live in a game where half the townies were inactive and weren't the best.

HOLD ON WHO THE FUCK
tchill = scum with havo
una = has been scumcased
Arc = not active and has been scumcased the entire game
me = baby waterbird

???!?!?!!

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Day 2 was NOT either havo or NM.

who else was it?
go find it for me.
I'll wait.

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you hard defended the FUCK out of Havo and pushed the NM PL there man

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Appearances don't bother me too much just wanna lynch you dude

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no probs

Una and Arc please talk to me like sane people, you guys are the only thing between me and the looney bin

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I checked him n1 and spewed it all over the thread

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Duh my flip would lock him as town after that :3

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Basically the fact they're spinning it to tw/una and appealing to Arc is pretty clever too. This is similar to how I spin LyLo as scum.

Anyway.... Arc is a sensible thinker. I trust her here, and do not think she'll avoid fact for such bizarre speculation.

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Before LyLo ya

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I am fucked n3 LOL

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right.... I am subjecting to NM as my superior postgame.

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VOTE: Tchill13

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you've basically claimed being Havo's partner right now by your ridiculous stances.
the only realistic other team fmpov is Una/Havo so--let's lock that out.

it's inherently pro town to rule out possible teams right now.

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WHY ARE YOU VOTING MULTIPLE DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

It only confirms you or the people you vote as scum.

sorry, teaching moment may be necessary here!!!
I have voted for Havo whilst you & Una were online. ergo, a tch/una scumteam is impossible.
I have now voted you and hopefully will continue to whilst Havo & Una are online. ergo, a havo/una scumteam will then be impossible.

I'm like 90%+ confident in you as Havo's buddy, and Havo is mechanically proven scum to me so yeah

My stance on Havo's modifier is just your main concern. If I don't agree with that then ALL my stances are ridiculous which is a stupid argument.

I mean this was by far the most ridiculous conclusion you've jumped to.

Ninja is a scum role modifier, he's sticking with his claim of it.

This is a normal game, which guidelines dictate town CANNOT BE NINJAS NO MATTER WHAT.
it has been designed around the normal guidelines, and signed off for normalcy.
the process would have kicked out a "town ninja jailkeeper" long before the game started.

You turn one stance into all.

You controlled the thread.

You gave a setup that was balanced but theoretically let you solve the game by night 2.

a lot of setups with investigative roles can be solved by night two IN THEORY, with optimal play. the chance of this happening is tiny as fuck, but it exists. it's just a flaw of mafia as a game.
I have only half-solved the scumteam, the fact you're ignoring common sense and defending someone who I know is lockscum just helped me out a lotttt.

seizing control of the thread was highly pro-town since I'm a proven town investigative.

you're throwing a tantrum here because you were so close to winning and now it's been pulled out from under your feet. if you actually had a strong case going into D3 a townie should have stayed and talked it out with me, instead of sulking and lurking when I confirmed I had an investigative response.

You refused to bring up the hop kill.

what do you wanna talk about wrt the Hop kill?
he was very obvious town
my flip would have also caused a conftown!Hop to go into MyLo/LyLo which any scumteam will try to avoid
we've already spoken about your previous ridiculous point here. who else would scum kill? who else would scum bring into LyLo this game based off play alone pre D3? you have not answered this, you ignored my response.

You lock towned hop after a vig claim when you KNEW he had a role.

yes, I rolecopped him and got Vigilante. Vigilante is a town-only role.

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wanna do some team elimination voting tch?

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meh no point, you claimed scum with havo

i'm out til arc gets here

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I'll be maintaining my vote on Tchill, Arc. This is to disprove Una/Havo as a possible scumteam. Let me know if you have any questions for me.

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VOTE: Havo

Really well said Arc. The play this game has been fantastic; I've never felt this kind of rush in LyLo as town before.

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I'm alive? noice

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inb4 tchill 2d nka dead arc = scum una

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VOTE: tchill13

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if its you Una, gg win well deserved

But Tchill literally claimed scum with Havo with that moon logic last phase. This is how it's going down.

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I was 2 shot. >:

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youre town right una?

that shit yday was WAYYY outside my scum range. xD I'm town I promise.

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Well played Tchill and Havo!! You had us 100% based on play. I like to think I would have considered the possibility you were scum in LyLo but I cannot guess where I would have voted.

And well done town.
Lovebird literal town mvp this game holy fuck that was incredible


Thank you to the equally lovely Nero & Espe for modding!

[the worst]

the worst played really really well and is definitely a great boon to the town this game. I actually pointed out that he was on point in the mod thread at one point because he was nailing the whole game at one point.

thank you


I agree the game was...... kinda very strangely-balanced in a way but definitely more swingy than imbalanced

scum rb is op. not sure what the purpose of the ninja was exactly. but anyone you had smelled out as a PR being RB'd messes with the strong town investigation vibe. Love played her PR part perfectly, she was townie enough that we would not have lynched her but was not threatening enough to be NK'd.

The only irk with the setup fmpov ig is the vig becomes conftown once they claim the LyLo-removing kill which gives potential for FIVE conf alignments in 2 nights

rc = vig / ninja
weak = 2 townies / 1t1d
vig = 1man conftown

but like the chances of that are grossly low. Lovebird and I were lucky enough this time and we weren't that lucky.

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i feel like roles are being valued based on the average of players that tend to play them versus the role itself.

vig is a great example.

GREAT role in the hands of a good or even a decent player.

can literally kill half the scum in a 2 scum game. can eliminate 20 percent of lynchbait in a 10 player 2 scum game.

QFTAF.

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1 shot vig in 10p is fantastic. the addition of a weak role makes for a reeeeally interesting dynamic in 10p though.

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qftaf?

Quoted for true as fuck
I just made it up on the spot

[the worst]

DAMNNNN that's dangerous. and swingy. but clever.

Thank you Tch. I've been trying to work really hard on my towngame. My earlier games were very weak, and I think I have a long way to go with consistency.

[the worst]

vocal

AM I LOUD ESPE

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sry caps

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weirdly if lovebird didnt get Havo and/or you bussed I think I would have lynched Una before you

still p sure we would have got havo

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....(but I'm kinda anti bus so... Mad respect)

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50 percent finding scum 50 percent convincing everyone to lynch scum lol.

Oh, I know I lack the most important part!

we should hydra some time.
I am awful at mafia but very loud

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^^^^^^ this

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I really liked the plan Tch. I pulled the same thing in a recent game where I was all but caught scum and won in 3v2 LyLo. It was awesome pressure to play against.

I'd be keen to try a game of yours Tch, sounds like youve got a good head for setups.

TWCB is a fantastic name....

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I dig theme games. With the new normal format I think I'll probably swing more that way in the future.

But either way that'd be sweet, cheers!

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Sorry that I was not here earlier. VC coming soon.

VOTE: Nero Cain
（╯°□°）╯︵(\ .o.)\

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I can't do the pts . sorry guys. Espe should have done them earlier.

VOTE: Espeonage
┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻

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Yeah I feel dumb.

Because Espe was the PT queen the last pm I had was from him saying I'd been neighourisised. So I just searched for 2003 and replied to that.

All the same...lucky it was a vanilla result on Arc and not a gamebreaker.

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jfc never typing while half asleep again. I was impressed how cohesive it felt.

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Yay

High five Lovebird!!!
Sorry you died though.. D:

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I stand by that assessment--swingy, swingy as can be, swingy as fuck. It could swing either way. But the odds of it swinging one way were loosely equal to it swinging the other way. The odds of town getting fucked loosely equaled the odds of scum getting fucked and the most likely outcome was somewhere in the middle where both sides got setbacks due to misplays.

I feel this in a huge way

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Like, in terms of luck. The outcome of this game is in the top-5 town-luck outcomes I'd estimate. Yes there are outcomes more lucky for the town, but not very many. This game had dozens, hundreds of possible iterations which could have played out, and of them only the smallest fraction favored town more than the outcome of this game did.

Totally agreed here. Letting Hop take his kill n1 was always wise--he was comfortable with both scum slots and from memory ONLY HAD TOWN in his vigpool.... The fact we even had a d1 vig claim was insane and allowed me to get my hard inno as a role cop (which is statistically improbable anyway)

Lovebird targeting me the same night as I spewed my townclear was probably the second best luck for the two of us n1 (save Lovebird getting a separate clear on Una/Arc but I digress)...but as far as our win goes, GTH it was actually the rb/vig situation which won us the game.

Or maybe that's just my ego talking

I'd actually say n1 was the third luckiest possible outcome for town, but otherwise I think this time we had a really fair fight in LyLo. I really enjoyed logicking to the death against you Tchill.

Would be pretty cool to see this run again in a world where what Mastina described went down. D1 ml = 7v2 then a n1 vig kill on the weak neighbouriser could have it down to 5v3 with a soft guilty. or...of course the d2 4v2 mylo situation...



pedit: that is a rly good question. It did enable a viable tracker claim ig?

[the worst]

I guess*

[the worst]

Right back at you, hope we get to play again soon.

I think this kind of setup where small % NAs can blow the game right open is just controversial by nature.