Changes to Normal Games (update September 2022)

[Psyche]

wow, i don't have to design setups anymore when i want to mod
i love that change

[Psyche]

I think there are some people who really will be pushed out of the normal queue because of these changes (mods who were running abnormal normal games).
But I think other changes will bring people into the normal queue who'd otherwise be out (mods who want the details taken out of their hands)

[Psyche]

i don't want to seem like i'm plugging something but maybe the solution to this deficit of reviews is (reviewer-supervised) automated setup review?

if in a thread like this one we can specify a sort of formal process by which games are reviewed or even just for summarizing the relevant factors that must be subjectively considered during a review, then it should be straightforward to code something that does that work automatically

[Psyche]

What goes into a setup review? What kinds of considerations are made?

[Psyche]

Well, I really really think it deserves serious discussion if the review process is what everyone seems to think is wrong with the normal queue. If there were some limitations to the EV program that put anyone off, they might be straightforwardly improved on.

[Psyche]

And even if automating the process is shot down, I do think this sort of highlights how much of a black box game reviewing is, at least officially speaking. In all the queues, reviews are often mentioned or even required, but I can't find much discussion of what reviews are supposed to do or filter out. Shouldn't moderators know the underlying quality objectives going in? Might not providing this knowhow help speed up the review process?

[Psyche]

I'd love to see an automated reviewer.

The problem, though, is that it'd make town setup speculation orders of magnitude more accurate, as town could just run all the known power roles through the reviewer to check for fakeclaims / hidden scum PRs.

not necessarily...

[Psyche]

we'll see!

[Psyche]

i think more people will mod normals as a result of these changes

[Psyche]

it's just really hard to make time for this kind of work!

[Psyche]

Gunsmith doesn't give untrustworthy results

The results are very trustworthy they just mean gun vs no gun

he means ambiguous!

[Psyche]

Is it possible that Mafiascum could make a new section where we can play Normal games BUT trial new roles and modifiers to see how they interact, and if they could be whitelisted?

I'd like to see the modifier that's the opposite of Loud enacted.

And I was thinking a "Delayed" modifier would be neat.

Also the Neighborhood Cop should be added like now.

isnt that the theme queue

[Psyche]

seems a variation of the condemner role https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Condemner

it being some cross of third party and town aligned is not unprecedented