Micro 800-B: "Normal" Stock Photos Mafia [Endgame]

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Vote: CheekyTeeky

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Hi 2nd picks are massclaiming what their first pick choices would be if they were forced to have first pick.
If me and Plot were forced to have first pick Plot would be in the open and I would be here.

Why?

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Sorry, I should have been more clear. Why do you think massclaiming that is a good idea?

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Bonus I get to attempt to interact and read Claire and I think I would be good at doing that.

Now that I actually read this though, who is Claire?

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B. Motivations. Having this information be flat out and on the table at the start of the game could potentially give us some information to work with concerning the motivations on why certain players chose certain games.

Why would anyone do anything other than lie if it was going to be meaningful? (scum or town, it reveals things they presumably don't want revealed).

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Unvote Vote Ranmaru

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Please explain, Chamber.

Your post was pretty bad?

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Your post was pretty bad?

Well please, elaborate.

The questions are easy to ask but what do you expect them to achieve? It seemed like generating content with no actual thought behind it.

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I mean, reiterating that you asked level 0 questions doesn't really change anything? Of course that's what they meant. They still don't achieve anything.

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You didn't notice the 'vote alisea' that were immediately above your post? They stand out a fair bit.

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Having done this once before didn't teach you any lessons?

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I'm not sold this was an intentional move by scum Mastina yet.

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Does anyone in this game really respect lycans town game? The kill seems odd to me. The only reasons I can see for it are out of general respect (his only read seemed wrong as heck) or because he seemed like one of the only voices in opposition of a mastina lynch. Even then, I think that was more fueled by his scum read of alisae, hard to say if it would have stood up.

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I have no idea, hence the first question. Too many people I have little knowledge on.

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No one was right for the right reasons on CES in that game.

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Her claim is that she made the post from the first page. She wouldn't have seen any of the votes or l-1 post if that's true.

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Her claim is that she made the post from the first page. She wouldn't have seen any of the votes or l-1 post if that's true.

Bullshit

Do you have conclusive proof that that's not how she enters games?

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Unless you think mastina took more than 2.5 hours to compose her post, I don't believe that's true.

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UNVOTE:
Sigh I suppose you have a point that if she's town we're fucked so I'll think it over( You can call me Maria or Claire I have no pref w/e you feel comfortable with!)
but this:

How is this not something you had considered before voting?

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might look at chamber for scummy

What would this entail?

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your posting hasn't impressed me compared to others

I didn't ask why you'd look at me. I asked what looking at me would entail?

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Chamber has recruited me into his neighborhood, for a role related reason. He states he still scumreads me, and doesn't intend to do anything with it. Take that as you will.

I made it clear that I thought a neighborhood was of very limited utility if used only for talking in a game where we already have access to a duo to do said talking with. I recruited you into it not for a role related reason as you say here, but because if you were town I had a power role read on you, and thought that organizing/misdirecting scum about power roles was the most utility a neighborhood had in a game like this. You've framed these things in as incriminating a way as possible, as well as tried to shade me by repeating questions you already asked in the neighborhood that I refused to answer in there with reason. I don't think you could have gone about all of this in a more scummy way.

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1: I am trying to progress reads on people. Not on you I give you that, but what do you think I'm doing with Maria? And it's been 7.5h since day started?
2: You repeating questions from the neighborhood is the issue. What did you expect, me to put on a theater performance where I went through the exact same exchange again? Why the fuck would I do that.
3: When you are paraphrasing make it clear you are paraphrasing.
4: The point wasn't about instead having communication in the neighborhood. It was about your questions clearly only being asked as an attempt to make me look bad, not develop your read. But that wouldn't have been transparent to anyone but the both of us.

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The reward is you town reading her, which is on top of her mislynching Alisae. The reward was cutting discussion to a halt so that players would have little information to find scum, because right now, our D1 is most likely a scum-sided environment. A bunch of nulls, and two scum reads is all I could get from that.

I suppose it's not implausible (NM thinks that it's mastina as well)
What are people's thoughts on this statement--

I'm not going to be the fucking lylo mislynch. So tomorrow, either everyone agrees I'm town or everyone agrees to lynch me.

If mastina is scum do you think she lynched alisae intentionally?

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Directly asking someone if they are an investigative role isn't rolefishing. Rolefishing implies something a lot more subtle. And at any point did it seem like I was trying to use the neighbourhood to buddy up to you? That seems a bit disingenuous. If anything I was openly antagonistic towards you the whole time. I obviously disagree with my reasoning not making sense.

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Blatant rolefishing isn't rolefishing. It's just asking someone if they are a role. This is likely an argument in semantics and it's one I know I've had before.

The reason I hadn't and still haven't voted for you is because I was intending to read some of your previous games to see if your statements about always asking awful questions in the early game was true or not. I was also giving the game some room to breath and let other people come in and react to the nightkill and alisae's lynch before deciding the direction for the day.

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I'd only ask for links after looking myself and not finding anything that matched. I meta people all the time without asking for links. Asking for links is asking to get some weird curated list of only the closest examples. I also like to not know the alignment of the person when I'm reading so that I can blindly judge whether the behavior matches or not, then confirm after.

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You are the one disputing it and turning it into a semantics debate. Rolefishing, blatant rolefishing, or just asking for a role, I like neither of those three coming from you as a reason for recruiting me.

I mean, to me rolefishing has inherently negative connotations. Is asking someone to claim rolefishing? I would say not. It would be like if you attacked someone and got accused of chainsawing. The set of actions may fit, but the inherent negative connotations don't.

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why do you have to make a post that bad after I try and give you some benefit of the doubt?

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Vote mastina

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stuff

Why did you choose to respond to these in the order that you did?

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Do you have any publicly reachable spots where you talk about why scum neighbourizer is strong in your opinion? I will admit I've balanced fewer games than you, but it would have been my opinion that town neighbourizer is a weak role, and scum neighbourizer is perhaps of negative utility for scum if used.

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Thaaat's a pretty scummy post.

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how tf is that a scummy post

1: I don't care whether its true or not, only whether mastina can show they believe it (I still don't, but having that argument in this game isn't meaningful). This means your post didn't actually accomplish anything.
2: You responded very quickly, which suggests you are keeping up with the game, but the thing you chose to respond to is something that has no direct impact on the game at all. You could have answered the same as either alignment. Its very easy content to throw in as scum.

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your posting hasn't impressed me compared to others

I didn't ask why you'd look at me. I asked what looking at me would entail?

I got distracted by ranmaru being bad, but this is also something I want answered still.

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Mastina is at L-1 right now, right?

Why ask this?

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You're being far too reactive. At this point I'm content to lynch mastina and MariaR, and if the game is still going and I'm still alive I'll reevaluate other stances.

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What does townlean mean in that context?

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You are still a scum read. You did ask a lot of useless questions in civ, but I don't think it holds nearly as true for older town games of yours (this decreases my scum read on you but doesn't erase it). I feel like you have been talking in very bad faith at multiple points(which increases it). I just see the other 2 as even worse.

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God this is going to be hell.

So Pine says that he thinks Maria's 203 is very town (which means he has stated strong townreads on the two players I most scumread), thinks Cheeky is very town, and that Ranmaru is slimy scum capitalizing on my error (which I understand his reasoning behind but hard disagree on). He does say I should trust my chamber read tho.

Hydra dissonance like this is way more common from scum in my experience, as another knock against mastina.

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[quote="In post 239, MariaR"]Unba and chamber do you sr me and mastina as partners or are we just the most scummy to you? If it's the former a bit more info on that would be great[/quote

Talking about partners before flips is a huge distraction unless you specifically think you caught some weird interaction, which is pretty rare. I'd have just pointed out an interaction like that.

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God this is going to be hell.

So Pine says that he thinks Maria's 203 is very town (which means he has stated strong townreads on the two players I most scumread), thinks Cheeky is very town, and that Ranmaru is slimy scum capitalizing on my error (which I understand his reasoning behind but hard disagree on). He does say I should trust my chamber read tho.

Hydra dissonance like this is way more common from scum in my experience, as another knock against mastina.

It's stuff like this that creeps me out.

You've made some off hand comments before. (Like your ew at my question to EP). Can you explain why those both bother you? Especially the EW one.

[chamber]

Paraphrase

:

Me: ok chamber y u recruit me?
Chamber: ur still scum but i think ur a pr role (dats y i chose u) also don't expect me to talk in here
Me: im town yes
Chamber: im town yes? so ur not claiming a role k imma keep my read of scum on you
Me: wut lol *wifoms pr answer*

This paraphrase is mostly accurate but lacks nuance. The big thing missing (which I didn't fully explain before) is that you didn't actually look interested in solving the game day 1. Your questions didn't go meaningful places. This to me makes it much more likely that you are scum (and thus don't need to know more info) or are a town investigative PR (and thus have other ways of getting the info). I didn't have PR reads on anyone else and already explained why I thought a neighbourhood in this game was more or less useless for anything other than PR organization.

[chamber]

Paraphrase

:

Me: ok chamber y u recruit me?
Chamber: ur still scum but i think ur a pr role (dats y i chose u) also don't expect me to talk in here
Me: im town yes
Chamber: im town yes? so ur not claiming a role k imma keep my read of scum on you
Me: wut lol *wifoms pr answer*

I do think this is another instance of a bad faith paraphrase though, not in that it isn't based in truth, but in that it makes things look as bad for me/good for you as possible.

[chamber]

God this is going to be hell.

So Pine says that he thinks Maria's 203 is very town (which means he has stated strong townreads on the two players I most scumread), thinks Cheeky is very town, and that Ranmaru is slimy scum capitalizing on my error (which I understand his reasoning behind but hard disagree on). He does say I should trust my chamber read tho.

Hydra dissonance like this is way more common from scum in my experience, as another knock against mastina.

It's stuff like this that creeps me out.

You've made some off hand comments before. (Like your ew at my question to EP). Can you explain why those both bother you? Especially the EW one.

No. Short of time and overgamed. Feel free to use your imagination.

I honestly have no idea. I think both posts by me are middle tier at worst (I think my EP question was actually excellent though).

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I've already stated the important clarifying bits. The other bit wasn't a threat, was just a fact. Why state the fact if not as a threat? To indicate the use of the neighborhood was mostly dead to me. Shrug.

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I didn't say it was incorrect. It just twisted things in slightly bad faith. He wrote everything from his POV instead of a neutral one. Again, I've made the one clarification I feel was most important.

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If I were a scum neighbourizer I'd have not used it at all.

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I hate being scum, having to fake being town in multiple places sounds awful.

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I'm also curious if you were intending on reading my games, why you hadn't done so over the night to have a better idea of my slot then saying that after I accuse you of not voting me while stating you scum read me.

I don't remember the exact chronology of everything. I'd have likely read past games of yours at some point regardless, but normally its a higher priority for me to do it for question marks than it is for people I have reads on. I believe you moved up higher in the priority when actually talking to you in the PT. With that said, I didn't read any games during the Night. Metaing takes time. I chose to do other things.

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Do you think I'd have lied about the meta thing as an excuse to not vote for you in thread? What do you think my scum motivation would be for not voting for you?

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I didn't expect you to?

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I think the point you are missing is me not expecting you to doesn't mean there is no chance of it. And I'd rather have an unexpected chance with someone I think is a PR than no chance at all because they aren't a PR.

I don't think I have before, but I normally see value in talking in neighbourhoods, this game is unique in why I think that value doesn't exist.

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I think it was pretty clear that I was going to out it very shortly if you didn't? I'm not sure there needed to be any motivation outside of looking slightly better by being the one to mention it first. That could be true as either alignment. Very uninteresting question.

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Like 95% of the questions you ask are awful so that doesn't really surprise me.

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I'm having a lot of trouble following the progression of your reads, ran.

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No need for a wiki

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Also I put no value in town cohesion or town reads. Scum read everyone to varying amounts.

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My confidence in my scum reads in general is low. I feel I need to meta everyone in the game because whenever I find something scummy people go to their meta as a defense. It's entirely possible it is a valid defense. I've been too busy to though. Maybe this weekend. Baring have read meta's though I think I've been clear about mastina and maria being top two. And for mastina, I think the hammer was an accident. So it's more to do with how she's reacted to it and played today than the hammer itself.

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I had written of cheeky as a non thing, and then his most recent posts made me think he was being increasingly scummy. And then you town read him for those posts. It hasn't actually helped me understand your reads better.

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For one, why did you engage him in as much detail as you did, but gave me an 'ew'?

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I'm curious as to why you neglected to mention her posts being scummy, and that my post hasn't helped you understand my reads better yet you hadn't followed up with me.

Why do I need to mention all of my thoughts? For instance not mentioning them gave you the room to town read her for the same posts I thought were scummy. Isn't that also an interesting talking point? Likelywise, I don't need to agree with your reasoning to understand your stated reasons? Maybe that was me not being sufficiently clear before.

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I think giving room for others to interact with things is a very important skill in mafia. I see no need to immediately interact with everything myself. Never giving space is how you get the spammer generation.

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Fear of getting into an argument with someone above your weight. Your one with una feels like you pushing someone around. Convenient.

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Do you need to know who I am? Una is a self professed weak target, even if you thought I was average the difference still exists.

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I'm scum reading Una but giving him a chance to prove me wrong.

Just to sink my point home, it really doesn't feel this way to me. It feels like you bullishly trying to incriminate him. Where in your opinion are you giving him a chance to prove you wrong?

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Not the first or last time I'll be accused of moon logic. I try to look at the game in ways most don't. I feel scum disguise the areas they know people will be poking at.

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It's mildly amusing that you claim to scum read him (in scum reading everyone) and that you like to watch interactions play out in the thread (your back and forth with ran) but you're not letting Una respond for himself?

You prompted this exchange not me?

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I don't feel like I've actually defended him directly at all. I could feel your method of attacking him is scummy without thinking the fundamental points are wrong. And town do make scummy attacks sometimes. I can't be right about everyone being scum now can I.

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Chamber: You say that she fears pushing a player above her weight, but note that she pushed me early D2. What do you think of that and how does it compare?

I admittedly had forgotten, but she did also drop it immediately upon getting push back and seemingly addressed things to the town not you.

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In what sense of the word fair?

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Is it a fair point as a defense for why she hasn't pushed you as much as she has pushed Una?

I don't think it's true. Its possible that she is town and does. It's also possible shes using it as an easy excuse because I can appear that way when my posts aren't given much thought.

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Why are you good with that?

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I forgot why I called cheeky dumb tbh I think it was pushing ram cause I tr him
like I tr Ep (based on last post) and Ram atm might look at chamber for scummy atm una has left me feeling null and mastina is...blah

Can you remember any other times you've made a statement like this?

[chamber]

I forgot why I called cheeky dumb tbh I think it was pushing ram cause I tr him
like I tr Ep (based on last post) and Ram atm might look at chamber for scummy atm una has left me feeling null and mastina is...blah

Can you remember any other times you've made a statement like this?

Like what? This is a pretty bland statement need you to be more specific

Lets start with any read lists in general.

[chamber]

Should be easy for you to link one then.

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I mean, I am. The closest I can find is

After doing a re read I don't know how I feel about fire's gambit I feel if it was anyone else I'd have voted him but it being fire I can see him doing it as town or scum what I don't get is why pod auto tr's it want to hear more from him given I just dislike that entrance post a lot. RR feels town while I disagree with a few of his statements I think he's trying to solve the game and believe what he say's Dreal worries me just for the simple fact I don't want to PL him yet, KidAmn's tone sadly feels like town the person I want to look at though is Klazam in his 9 posts he's just asking questions with a few shade posts I also feel the need of "Oh I was away for so long so this is why I'm asking" is overly explained because it doesn't really need to be there so with that.

VOTE: Klazam

And you're scum here.

There is even an instance where you are town and say readlists are easy to fake as scum and you don't see the point? (paraphrasing and have read a bunch of posts by you so some non 0 chance I'm not paraphrasing in a way that's fair, I'd have to go get the exact post again and I forget which game it was at this point).

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I haven't exhaustively read all of your games (or even all of your posts in any of the games I have read). But the only read lists in the format I've seen you use this game come from you as scum. If you know of a counter example that would save me a lot of time.

Unvote Vote: MariaR

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If it were just the reads list thing I'd have probably written it off, but + the comment from you as town would be a reason why you handle things differently as town.

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I appreciate the effort you put in linking those, but you understand how they are completely different from the one in this game and the one I quoted right? I'm going to move on to someone elses meta for a bit.

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I think whats wrong with it is implicit in the question.

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What did you think her reads were prior to you asking for that townblock?

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Is cheeky someones alt?

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I mean, I fully admit I think that 'townblock' forming is bad. If no other reason than its obviously bad for me regardless of my alignment? I've recently been abrasive to all 3 of you. With that said I didn't actually expect it to come together and was surprised when Maria just said sure. Like really surprised. Your other comments are obviously horse shit though.

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Your comments have already addressed my issue so you clearly knew it. Forming a town block with someone imo should take a really strong town read, and although you've sold having one on Ranmaru you haven't on Cheeky.

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I think I agree. I also dropped it (at least for now). Ranmaru dug it back up.

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I also think you've been a bit too proactive. Which is silly after my earlier comments, but you are really passive/reactive as town. This looked closer to you as scum. It is also a bit of a placeholder while I get through other people's meta's though.

[chamber]

Chamber gives me the same feeling CES did in White Flag mafia. He's done well in responding to pressure, but he's also being so conservative it's hard for others to have a solid bead on him and his moves feel like scum who have little option but to push in a bad way. I mean, why wait for me town read Cheeky and Form a town bloc for him to respond with pushes of his own?

I already said this, but you all read CES as scum for the wrong reasons. The reasons he was getting voted for he'd have also done as town. Me and him have influenced each other a lot over the years. You seeing similarities is fine, you thinking it makes me scum is a joke.

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what's your least favourite town game ep?

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I mean, why wait for me town read Cheeky and Form a town bloc for him to respond with pushes of his own?

I was so upset at the first half that I didn't properly process this bit. I was pushing people earlier in the day but everyone resorted to meta defenses. I said I felt like I needed to meta everyone in the game, and would likely find the time on the weekend. It's now the weekend. What's weird here again?

[chamber]

A lot off offsite experience?

[chamber]

What's weird here again?

The timing. It's fine that you need time to meta dive, yet you also find a need to time it at points that I give out a town read or when I'm forming a town bloc, rather then continue meta diving.

This timing was pre-announced.

[chamber]

She also didn't seem nervous when responding to Chamber, she seemed composed to me.

She did seem to care a bit too much over the fact that I was voting for her? I assume that's what errant was talking about.

[chamber]

Chamber

: I'll let Errant elaborate on that. Her responses to you seemed fair. Seems natural to wonder why a person is voting them. What's your opinion of Errant, and what was your conclusion to your question to him in your #430?

1 vote completely changing how someone is responding is a bit strange unless its like the l-1 vote (or threatening of the lynch vote).

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I didn't claim it indicated something specific. It just also seemed off to me, I hadn't figured out why yet. As for the change, she went from basically telling me to screw off to being quite willing to interact with me.

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I'm reasonably tempted to just hammer mastina here.

Do you have a way to describe your activity pattern mastina?

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Makes me want to hammer her more.

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Vote mastina

You can post your stuff in our neighbourhood.

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That seems more definite than I was left with the impression of after talking in the neighborhood? (I'm also regretting telling you might nightkill hypothesis because now it negates any value I could read into it that would exclude you as scum).

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You just made a completely unqualified statement that its me + MariaR. In the PT you didn't seem nearly that certain. I'd have to go back and look, but I think you had EP in the same set as me if nothing else?

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If you are town I think you've been an anti-town presence. But that was also said as a half joke. I hammered when I realized, in the case where you are town, it would be not only impossible for one of you or me to live (thus a town person being able to still bring it to the group at large) but also there would be someone else in the neighbourhood to either corroborate or go into a 1v1 which seemed fine.

I really didn't like basically anything mastina did after hammering alisea. Way too focused on it. Didn't really do nearly any actual playing of the game. Seemed to disappear when they weren't a focus.

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My impression is that the mafia probably don't have daytalk, so we can probably have people claim in the neighbourhood first, and then have the non neighbourhood people claim in public.

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No, we all claim here.

Why?

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Please don't mod kill him over that.

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What

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Don't you want ram to claim first anyway? So him claiming in the PT first is to a strictly smaller set and still locks in his claim.

[chamber]

Don't you want ram to claim first anyway? So him claiming in the PT first is to a strictly smaller set and still locks in his claim.

It doesn't matter who claims if you do it in the hood it helps scum

You need to explain more.

[chamber]

Don't you want ram to claim first anyway? So him claiming in the PT first is to a strictly smaller set and still locks in his claim.

It doesn't matter who claims if you do it in the hood it helps scum

You need to explain more.

Do you have 3 people in the hood
y/n

I do.

[chamber]

The whole point is segmenting the info. You and Una will have to claim without knowing what was claimed in the neighbourhood first. The only way this is bad (even if there is scum in the neighbourhood) is if the scum have daytalk.

I have reason to suspect they don't.

Please explain how this isn't true.

[chamber]

I have no issue voting for you if you don't claim first in the neighbourhood.

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Ep can claim in the neighbourhood like Ranmaru should have.

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He's claimed in the PT.

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I'm happy to wait on Una before hearing your targets.

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- The mafia PT has daytalk

I'm an idiot.

[chamber]

why ranmaru last night?

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I mean, at any rate you kill EP before me, so I'm not in consideration for today. I can only be scum if he's lying about his role. I'm definitely leaning maria/ep atm though. I believe the mastina investigation from Una, and the step didn't really make sense to me before his claim. I wish I had seen the daytalk thing before saying as much in the PT though. Showed too many cards if hes scum with you.

[chamber]

Ep claimed to be an ascetic to mafia actions. So because my action successfully resolved on him, he's either lying or I'm town.

In the PT I said if you claimed VT I thought it would be you 2(ranmaru/una), because the roles maria/ep claimed + mine didn't really add up to enough power with any 2 of us.

[chamber]

Makes me want to hammer her more.

I'm reasonably tempted to just hammer mastina here.

Do you have a way to describe your activity pattern mastina?

I just want to re-iterate that this was scum-sided, as I was about to post a reads list, and swing the wagon. Yet Chamber hammered. He also didn't try to push Maria as hard as I thought he would.

Your read list is still accessible to everyone, and mastina needed to die. Had una claimed we could have looked elsewhere (and I probably would have as him, but I can see him taking his line).

[chamber]

I think you overvalue your ability to control the direction of the game.

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And don't those points only make sense in a me/maria paring which is impossible at this point? (From a neutral perspective I can only be scum with EP).

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I think you overvalue your ability to control the direction of the game.

No I'm actually pretty humble about my own abilities. What's the purpose in you stating this?

Your point is partially predicated on me fearing a direction shift brought about solely by you stating your reads. I don't think that was very likely to have happened. So it's relevant.

[chamber]

If you are town you should also look at maria's vote for mastina, not just mine.

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We lynch EP today, and scum need to basically kill in me/Ranmaru to keep Maria vs chamber alive for tomorrow?

If I concede that you and ranmaru are town, yes. But I haven't yet, and ranmaru seems to be considering trying to lynch me today out of fear that you will 'mislynch' in lylo.

[chamber]

I don't really feel the need to convince you right now. If you vote me you're an idiot. Not taking the easy scum is the height of hubris (and hint, if you're town and we lynch EP, you're coming to end game anyway cause I'm not scum). You could go with abr in my books if you made a play like that.

I want to see what EP and Maria say at this point anyway.

[chamber]

It's only an insult if you vote for me today. And it will be a fitting one. (and it's not over you scum reading me, EP is guaranteed scum from town!ranmaru's pov, you take those.)

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I mean, I guess there is some world where its una/maria from your pov. But... no.

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Yes. I agree that you shouldn't actually be scum reading Una. I was just correcting myself in that it's not strictly impossible so EP isn't strictly confirmed scum from your pov.

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How did you go from Maria + EP is too easy so its Maria + Chamber, to EP has to be scum so Chamber + EP, wouldn't the natural progression be going back to Maria + EP?

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My hammer already happened.

I think my recruitment choice is the only one I was probably ever going to do. Why do you think I'd have done cheeky/una just because you said you would?

I still think MariaR's claim is obviously really bad. It being bad was my first thought when I saw it. I was just waiting for all the claims to say something. (I said as much before Una's claim in the PT). The fact that her claim turns things around for you is really confusing to me.

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Does annoying behavior make me scum? If anything I'd think the opposite (though in any such case WIFOM can make it null). And whats my scum motivation for using my role as I have, even if its not how you'd have?

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So I use it on you to manipulate you... but only ever antagonize you and make you scum read me?? And I still don't believe people are capable of perfectly playing as they wish, if that were possible mafia wouldn't be a game. I never said I didn't think you wouldn't try to play the same as both, just that you'd fail. (surely you also believing this is built into you believing marias doc claim justifies some of her oddness?). I already knew you town read Cheeky?? Does this point actually make any sense to you if you reflect on it? How does this make you look bad? The lie thing isn't even a point?

I hadn't thought it through yet and given you were in the neighbourhood, I'd have given your opinion some weight if I was splitting a decision, for instance. But then I thought it through and realized I was on EP.

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Why haven't you thought it through yet?

I hadn't when I asked you. I have now obviously given that I chose a target? I was just like, oh I need to neighbourize someone today, lets ask ran who he'd pick and then think about it. And then when I thought about it EP was the obvious choice.

Also, you asked EP a question D2 about his games. Why did you ask him, and what was your conclusion?

He seemed aloof this game (with the plausible excuse of exams). I wanted to compare to a game where he didn't enjoy himself to see how that compared as a different reason for inactivity.
I didn't actually ever read any of the games.

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Why did you want to guarantee someone with a scum read on you would come to lylo with you? That doesn't quite add up to me.

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But you should. You not is a huge issue for anyone trying to tr you.

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Why should I care if someone scumreads me

If you are town, you don't want your town reads to scum read you in lylo. Thats the worst case scenario because it means you are likely to lose. Like how I'm starting to feel about ranmaru, given that I'm like 90% sure its you and ep at this point.

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Vote: Errantparabola

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What do you want to hear? I predicted the no kill in the PT just like I predicted the cheeky kill.

Vote MariaR

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What value is there in a nl from scum!chambers pov Maria?

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You just know your claim is obviously bad and need to try and validate it somehow. I had no reason to not just kill Una if I was mafia.

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This isn't a 4 way. Its a 1v1 between the 2 of us + 2 town or + 1 town. If anything the 2 town make things less volatile. In this game as scum I'd much rather only having to convince one person.

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What value is there in a nl from scum!chambers pov Maria?

Is this a scumslip? (/-claim)

In what way is this a slip? I was asking her to justify her stance. What element don't you understand that would make it into a slip?

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You just know your claim is obviously bad and need to try and validate it somehow. I had no reason to not just kill Una if I was mafia.

Why is my claim bad?
Also nling doesn't validate a doc claim because wifom

no killing*

And of course it doesn't. But you were in a shitty spot. Humans are bad at evaluating wifom situations, they give it too much bias towards 50:50.

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I'm completely willing to NL, I just don't see the point. If Una is scum I'd blame the loss on the setup as much as anything else.

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Did you write the wrong name? I thought you were implying a godfather and I had to look up whether they were even normal.

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Why do you think the No Kill indicates me?

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Maria, if we no lynch and you make this take 6 phases. I swear to god.

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Maybe my perspective is warped by talking with ranmaru in the PT, but I don't think me/mariaR/ranmaru is some auto town loss. I think it's 50:50 at worst, and actually sided towards maria getting lynched by some amount. Shrug.

At the very least I don't think he makes the decision quickly and I don't think maria's been doing herself any favours as she talks. I don't think that's likely to change.

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it takes 6 phases but we can all speed it

Like what town person even assumes this is a thing the scum would do? But scum knowing how it will actually go have to fake a lack of knowledge, so say shit like this.

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And you have to pretend to have that ignorance as scum, which is the issue. Town would assume the scum aren't an asshat out to waste everyone's time.

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It's not even a good use of occamz razor. He's basically saying Hyposcum!chamber is in a worse position than Hyposcum!mariaR, therefore it must be Hyposcum!chamber. Which is a really silly argument. And I'm also pretty sure he's wrong about what my preference would be in terms of end game (I'm pretty sure I prefer ranmaru/mariaR/me to a triplet that includes him).

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This series of interactions is pretty distasteful from MariaR scum. So much ATE.

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What things?

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Unvote MariaR

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Unas stuff on this page has made me go from being 100% sure he was town to like 98% sure or something, which is why I unvoted maria. With that said, based only on setup speculation, Una claimed more or less exactly what I was expecting to hear during the mass claim, after I disbelieved both mariaR and Errant's roles. (I might have guessed something slightly weaker, like PT cop, or Neapolitan). A doctor plus a cop in 9 play seems like its blatantly too much to me. If it had been lesser forms of each, I could see the coexistence of both. And that's before considering that I'm in the game, which is worth some amount of power if not much.

Vote MariaR

(This is a bit disjointed from the rest of the post, so I'll say I was talking with CES, and he talked me down from the no lynch).

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He would also like me to add that the fact that the mafia had an encrypter enabler points to me being town. He thinks weakly, I think weakly to the point of not even being worth mentioning, but there it is.

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What did that Encryptor-enabler ACTUALLY do btw?
Is your hood shutdown now, or..?

Hood lost daytalk.

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Then vote no lynch so that we can keep the time waste minimized?

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Why wasn't he protected MariaR? Need a really good excuse if you don't want to be voted.

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Actually fuck it, if it's Una I'm ready to lose. You can explain it to him.

Vote MariaR