Mini 2011: Partition Mafia (Game Over)

[Wisdom]

VOTE: 2

[Wisdom]

Its troubling me than other than kokichi everyone else in 2 interpreted the grouping like I did, but its still the case
Im put in 2 so we dont lynch 2

[Wisdom]

If scum is smart, they would have just put all their eggs in one basket and done all 3 of them in one group, and then have 1 or 2 people we are town that are great at town telling, so to make people not lynch their group.

wait did you actually repeat what pine said

[Wisdom]

I dont rhink thats scummy my zman

agreed

[Wisdom]

not quite
I agree eith eddie that fitz wasnt scummy there
zmuffin was just put off by choice of wording

[Wisdom]

ok

As town, i believe group 2 should be lynched. The other groups seem like a cop out.

Care to explain this more?

[Wisdom]

Its troubling me than other than kokichi everyone else in 2 interpreted the grouping like I did, but its still the case
Im put in 2 so we dont lynch 2

Do we or do we not lynch 2?

Getting mixed signals

I mean
Scum put me in 2 so that we don't lynch 2
So we lynch 2

[Wisdom]

2 has been too easy to push

Problem with that is only people from 2 are pushing it

[Wisdom]

I think there's a chance that all scum are in one group. It would be rather easy to neverbus in that case, as you could justify it by not wanting to get rid of yourself.

If, for example, scum put themselves all in group 2, along with two players who prefer to dominate conversation, you'd need to get 7/8 of all remaining players to vote group 2 to succeed.

If scum is smart, they would have just put all their eggs in one basket and done all 3 of them in one group, and then have 1 or 2 people we are town that are great at town telling, so to make people not lynch their group.

How are you not repeating pine, kokichi?

[Wisdom]

Im seeing kokichi/riku/someone from group 3

[Wisdom]

lets still lynch 2

[Wisdom]

2 has Pine in addition to me
2 has one more person to account for scum losing members
Certain if not most people in this playerlist probably don't have much experience with zmuffin

2 is better than 3

[Wisdom]

scum tier list:

muffinman --> wisdom -----------------------------------------> pine

who's accounting for what?

dont agree

[Wisdom]

Disliking how people avoid group 2

[Wisdom]

Nobody outside group 2 is scumreading anyone in group 2

[Wisdom]

you misunderstood the second one
real was responding to me re: who is better scum

[Wisdom]

That there are scum in group 2 like ive said already

[Wisdom]

though if they were doing it, i think they'd have given some indication they're willing to move elsewhere, but so far they're all staying steadfast on the "WE MUST DIE!"

Incorrect. Kokichi was late to the selfvote party and only did it because Pine did
Riku is expressing doubts about scum being in 2 and his initial selfvote didnt seem to be because he really thought there are scum in 2
Pine has already moved on

The only one im townreading is bu.

[Wisdom]

The fact that only people in group 2 are voting group 2 is now worrying me. Wisdom, how does it suggest scum in our midst?

That makes sense, but what if thet just dont want to be suspected for going for the ez target?

I still feel lynching my group is the best idea

One of these is not like the others

[Wisdom]

2 of {Kokichi, Pine, Riku}
1 of {Eddie, Realmen, Cakez}

[Wisdom]

.. It's called a joke.

What was a joke?

[Wisdom]

But we kinda do have one of these partitions
You just have to vote it

[Wisdom]

Oh, you did, nvm

[Wisdom]

Agreed with bu

[Wisdom]

riku is so flipping red

[Wisdom]

You avoided my question
What was a joke in the three posts I quoted?

@riku

[Wisdom]

On the other hand, my expectation is that town would be more likely to actually go from reasoning ---> expression of townread. Whereas this looks a lot more like Expression of townread ----> Oh fuck I don't have much reason for saying that uhhhhh BLAND GENERIC VAGUE STATEMENT GO.

I don't agree with this
I almost always first express my read,

then

explain it, if i even bother to

[Wisdom]

You avoided my question
What was a joke in the three posts I quoted?

@riku

The one that is different.
Next question.

So it was a joke that you still want to lynch group 2?

[Wisdom]

Then why is your vote still on group 2 if you wanting to lynch it is a joke?

[Wisdom]

okay so nsg is town. not like that's any use to me because in this game we need to find scum. but it's a step forward!

Poe is a thing
Dont discourage townhunting

[Wisdom]

^kokichi trying to get us not to lynch group 2

[Wisdom]

bu is town

[Wisdom]

I cannot fathom how anyone can read through the last few pages and still think NSG is town.
Truly these are trying times.

RMOJ continue to make a lot of noise that boils down to nothing.
Riku is a VI
Pine is a wench and breaks my heart.

Yall make me very sad.

Edit: seppuku is suicide with a dishonor flavor

^trying to undermine scumreads on riku and pine and push nsg
dram joins the scumpile

[Wisdom]

That's why I'm getting scumvibes. He's opaque.

G3 is probably better. Fitz is right, I'm not sure hitting 1-ish scum is worth losing Wis and I. In contrast, I could lose all of G3, the only one not giving me scumvibes is abrasive RMOJ. No loss there.

VOTE: 3

(nuuuuu drammmm)

^scum

[Wisdom]

{kokichi, pine, Riku} contains at least two scum
All of them have felt really fake when it comes to suspecting group 2

[Wisdom]

i think the scum are cakez/dramonic/deasvail

hence,

VOTE: group 3

Why wouldn't a scumteam with zero g2 players push g2
None of these three even tried

[Wisdom]

Like i can see some of these three being scum but they have at least Pine as their buddy

[Wisdom]

Whatever, I'm down for it. I've got nothing to lose. I just want G3 first, I think it contains 2 scum.

Typical scum
"Sure, we can do [thing that's against scum agenda], but lets do [thing that's pro scum agenda] first"

[Wisdom]

sure
We have a single completed game together ages ago where I correctly read you so you're basing this on?

[Wisdom]

thanks for slipping you know I'm town

[Wisdom]

agreed

[Wisdom]

and softing group 3 conf scum.

?

[Wisdom]

pretty sure that meant nothing

[Wisdom]

Current reads

1	2	3
DeasVail	BuJaber	dramonic
Eddie Cane	Kokichi Oma	REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
havingfitz	Pine	SirCakez
northsidegal	riku	zMuffinMan
	Wisdom

I might vote 3 after all

[Wisdom]

How do you feel about the people in group 1?

[Wisdom]

What's town about Eddie?

[Wisdom]

nope.
He's tunneling group 3 with zero consideration of his own group having scum
The only times he's mentioned them was to hand both nsg and dv weakly reasoned townreads and call fitz meh

[Wisdom]

im going with pine/eddie/dram

wish i could read cakez to be more sure

[Wisdom]

nope.
He's tunneling group 3 with zero consideration of his own group having scum
The only times he's mentioned them was to hand both nsg and dv weakly reasoned townreads and call fitz meh

I think you're scum, because this is not how you treated me previously when I was useless. Thoughts?

i nowhere called you useless in that quote, cool misrepping

[Wisdom]

i mean they'd look sus if they suddenly voted for 2 there

[Wisdom]

VOTE: 3

[Wisdom]

do you dislike it, cakez? is your group full of townies?

[Wisdom]

have you heard about read progression? or did you even read my reads?

[Wisdom]

or are you just trying to shade me now that 3 is in danger?

[Wisdom]

I did briefly scumread you in our last game but the other reads were stronger and then you townposted again and I changed my mind
Here it's not that you haven't reasoned reads that pings me, it's that I am looking for people who have an agenda of not lynching their group and you're fitting it

[Wisdom]

which is not a town mindset
whether you survive shouldnt be relevant if you kill scum with selflynching

[Wisdom]

which im doing and ive found them

[Wisdom]

if you need me to tell me why you should be scumreading them it means you default to townreading them and dont even care if they are scum

again, not a town mindset

[Wisdom]

no, now it's cakez/you/eddie after cakez trying to shade me and pine and softdefend you

[Wisdom]

You said you cant see the scumreads on him, so you're undermining them

@cakez

[Wisdom]

so two people in the group I've been tunneling all day and me. cool!

notice how that's a shit argument?still better than your push on me

yeah like how sugar and kokichi argued kokichi cant possibly be scum with mollie because bussing does not exist

you can tunnel g3 all day long and it wont matter shit if you find an excuse to vote elsewhere in the end like you're doing right now

[Wisdom]

I also said I can't see the townreads either

irrelevant

[Wisdom]

like you didnt even need to answer to bu

He was asking if someone who townreads dram can explain to him how hes town because he doesnt see it

and you answered to tell him that you agree he's null and you can't see the scumreads on him, which isnt even what he asked

the only way I can read that is you disliking that he's on to dram and trying to undermine the scumreads on dram

[Wisdom]

what im seeing is that scum are frustrated we're not lynching 2 anymore so they're trying to get it back on track by shading me

too scared to vote though

[Wisdom]

sounds like a plan to me
make a greater group, let everyone become paranoid and lynch that group, while we bus each other without anything bad happening

[Wisdom]

I still think 1 is the best lynch FTR.

I'm okay with you thinking I'm scum ig it means group 3 is lynched today

Remember these when they end up voting 2

[Wisdom]

Can we all lynch mygroup, I know for certain scum is in it

Who?

[Wisdom]

kokichi your lies are boring
if you actually scumread people in 2, talk about it

[Wisdom]

eddie who do you scumread the least in group 3?

[Wisdom]

so if the group was you, dram, muffin, cakez, would you still vote it?

[Wisdom]

kokichi is known for lying all the time

[Wisdom]

Jk I'm not. Or am i?

[Wisdom]

lel here comes shading for kokichi now

[Wisdom]

dram you obviously have no experience with kokichi. he does such stuff all the time. he 99% has nothing.

[Wisdom]

you're not voting the group he's in though, so it's shading as well as preparing to move your vote

[Wisdom]

but actually doing it will get you in trouble, so you need to establish a believable trajectory

[Wisdom]

you also think being sarcastic will look town but it wont

[Wisdom]

or hes lying and hes town which is the most likely

dont be so binary

[Wisdom]

VOTE: group 2

alright then

pine goes back to scumlist

[Wisdom]

koki are you telling the truth here? please tell me because if you are we are lynching group 2 and I need to claim and do something relevant before we do

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

not yet

[Wisdom]

Scum out of 2 is probably some combination of {Cakez, dram, Muffin} in rough order of suspicion.

who's the scum

in

2?

[Wisdom]

what are you talking about? on d2 we wont be alive

[Wisdom]

lol

b ack to lynching group 3 then

?

[Wisdom]

Ok.
I can swap a person in a group with a person in another group.
I can't target myself.
I'm obviously swapping Kokichi out of 2, but now we need to decide who goes in.

[Wisdom]

Alternatively I can swap whoever we think is scum in 2 to 3 and lynch 3
But that's way more risky

[Wisdom]

If it was up to me I'd swap Pine with Realmen and lynch the fuck out of 3

[Wisdom]

I thought you didn't want to swap the scum out of 2?

That was assuming we lynch 2 and don't go for the gamble.

[Wisdom]

because hes obvtown while muffin is good scum and im not confident in reading him

[Wisdom]

The more I think about it the more I want to go for swapping the scum into group3

If we lynch 2, we lynch two guaranteed town (me and Kokichi), plus Bu who is pretty obvious town, and most likely another town in whoever isn't scum in Pine/riku, so 4 townies to lynch 1 scum.

While by swapping Pine or riku (most likely Pine) to 3 we can get more scum lynches and we save me and Kokichi who should be basically conftown after this. And even if we miss (Pine/riku flips town), we know tomorrow that the other is scum.

[Wisdom]

@wisdom; does your role reset the votecount?

yes

[Wisdom]

pine youre only making me more trigger happy

[Wisdom]

That's all lovely except for the part where Kokichi is most likely scum.
I am actively against any plan that doesn't involve Kokichi dying if we're lynching within group 2 or 3.

this is not scum kokichi. he's telling the truth.

[Wisdom]

eddie no, already said so

[Wisdom]

i dont care if you trust me, youre scum trying to prevent the lynch of you and your buddies anyway

@dram

[Wisdom]

i say we do 3 and if we insist on swapping we can do pine but id rather leave as is

of course we swap, there's confirmed scum in 2. kokichi is not lying here.

[Wisdom]

yep pine is now trying to get me not to swap him but ill still swap him

[Wisdom]

i dont like massclaims
i always assume the mod isnt dumb to let a d1 massclaim be helpful

[Wisdom]

you're advocating for lynching town when we have confirmed scum.

flail more
my method gets rid of more scum and less town

[Wisdom]

unless you think it somehow helps the situation, no

[Wisdom]

lul

[Wisdom]

i dont care if you trust me, youre scum trying to prevent the lynch of you and your buddies anyway

@dram

I think it's safer to switch me and someone else. If we switch someone we scumread and they arent the scum, then we are screwed.

Why? Say I switch Pine to 3 and Pine flips town
We still know scum is in Bu/riku

[Wisdom]

If we know there is scum in G2 if we believe Koki's claim...why would we swap someone out of G2 (potentially not the scum) into group three (for potentially a G3 scum) and then vote out G3...potentially helping scum dodge a bullet instead of getting lynched?

If people believe Koki's claim and that he is town wouldn't the best move be to swap him into G3 for anyone (potentially a G3 scum) and vote out G2 for possibly 2 scum removed.

Already has been explained.
If we lynch G2 we lose 3 to 4 townies, including me and Kokichi who are in locktown mode after this.
If we lynch G3 we save both and potentially lynch more than 1 scum.
And even if we miss on the swap, we still know there is scum in whoever wasnt swapped from 2.

[Wisdom]

ok, so after thinking it through i don't think anyone should swap anyone and we just lynch group 2 - it's safer to lynch g2 than doing a swap and potentially fucking things up (or hitting less scum as a result)

Muffin you're better than this. Youre scum.

[Wisdom]

So Wisdom, what happens if Pine isn't the scum? I like the safe option of switching me out for someone scummy.

Then we know its riku (or bu but thats unlikely)

[Wisdom]

if it makes things easier, im town

Yeah thats why you call me trying to save 3 certain townies over 1 a dumb idea

[Wisdom]

scum probably have some prs of their own to keep balance so i'm more going off play

Yeah, such as muffin's selfswap

[Wisdom]

Like I'm pretty sure the

idea

of the role as town would be to fuck up the scum's setup.
What Wisdom is considering doing is fucking up the cop <_<

look at scum flailing
I fucking save 3-4 townies and fuck up nothing
The cop result will still be true tomorrow even if my swap misses

[Wisdom]

If he swaps out Koki and Koki was fakeclaiming (which is my primary theory) we're most likely in lylo.

nice narrative
Except koki is 100% town here
scum-koki never even comes up with that claim, much less claim it on his own group

[Wisdom]

Wisdom let's start with this. Which group do we switch in. Group 1 or 3

3. Other than realmen everyone in group3 has strong chances of being scum.

[Wisdom]

I vote we swap koki with RMOJ

If you dont buy into the "koki might be scum" paranoia why are you against swapping pine/riku to group 3 and lynching group 3?

[Wisdom]

Yes

And whats your proposal?

[Wisdom]

Also I would go for lynching group 2, but am not ready to do it yet.

Am i the only sane person here
Why the fuck lose me and kokichi and two others in order to get one scum
The cop result is not going to disappear overnight

[Wisdom]

Unless one of you actually thinks a swapping role can be scum. Because that seems bastardy to me.

Why cant scum have a selfswap role?

[Wisdom]

I think I'm just going to ignore Dramonic because he's just spewing out conf bias crap, because he scumread me early and doesn't want to be wrong.

or you know, hes scum

[Wisdom]

I don't.

However
If I'm wrong, there is scum in group 2.
If I'm right, there is scum in group 2.

Yeah except you conveniently dont account for town deaths

[Wisdom]

REAL MEN'S SUGGESTION FOR SWAP

MUFFIN SWAPS HIMSELF INTO GROUP 2 WITH WISDOM

WISDOM SWAPS KOKICHI OUT OF GROUP 2 INTO GROUP 3 AND CAKEZ INTO GROUP 2

LYNCH GROUP 2

yeah no
And this is very worrying considering you supposedly wanted to lynch your group earlier
You should be agreeing with my plan here

[Wisdom]

RMOJ putting koki and dramon in the group that we aren't lynching doesn't work because one of them is confirmed scum.

We have to trust one of them and lynch the other OR lynch both.

What? How is dram or kokichi confirmed scum?
Dram was obviously trolling if you believed his "claim"

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, why is it just one scum?

Because me, Kokichi and Bu are 100% town. And Pine/riku are not both scum. No way they both selfvote. Its one of those two.

[Wisdom]

you and Koki are unknowns for me

How the fuck arent we obvtown here
I get you dont have kokichi meta but him-scum claiming that just doesnt make any sense here
Nor does scum-me make any sort of sense

[Wisdom]

What is wrong with my opinion being different from yours?

I dont know, the fact we will fucking sacrifice 4 townies to lynch 1 scum when we can sacrifice 2 scummy looking town to lynch 2 scum?

[Wisdom]

both you are kokichi are town, but you still swap out a town player for a scum player - town is still in the dark in lylo

This is the only one im responding to because calling me or kokichi scum when we're obvtown is just mudslinging.
Nobody's in the dark. Even if I swap the wrong person out of g2 we know tomorrow its the other person. The guilty is still there. We lose nothing.

[Wisdom]

And now that im caught up
Unless i see a rational response on why I shouldnt swap Pine for realmen and lynch group3, thats what Im doing and then I am forcing your hand because youre not going to lynch g2 without Pine in it.

[Wisdom]

I dont care.

[Wisdom]

the only argument is if Pine is really the scum or is it riku

thats the only debate here

i think its riku and not pine but we'll know tomorrow

Yep, if Pine flips town riku is confscum tomorrow so still a win

[Wisdom]

What?

[Wisdom]

In other matters I agree with DV that fitz is the G1 scum
His play feels different than town-fitz

[Wisdom]

Riku/Pine is a very far possibility given g3 is full of scumfucks and fotz is also likely scum
Im not saying Riku should be conftown on Pine scumflip but its not something im strongly considering

[Wisdom]

there is no scenario where lynching outside your group today is a good idea. i'm pretty much done discussing this, but if need be, i'll repeat the obvious points for the people who are blind

No, theres no fucking scenario where lynching me, kokichi and Bu is a good idea.

[Wisdom]

Not impossible, but 1-1-1 is probably more rational

@realmen

[Wisdom]

if we don't, then i think i'm just swapping wisdom

Hahaha
Is that a threat so I dont do it?
I fucking know youre going to use your scumrole to get out of dying. Use it on me and youre fucking dead tomorrow. Nothing youll ever say will excuse you from seeing im obvtown here.

[Wisdom]

Riku hes saying that pine is willing to be switched to g3. What are your opinions about my plan?

[Wisdom]

Cool, so youre okay if i swap you to g3 instead?

[Wisdom]

the logic is that me and kokichi are obvtown and no matter how much you try to twist it its true and thats what youre basing this campaign on

[Wisdom]

I can buy dram being this stupid. I can buy Eddie. I can buy DV. I cannot buy you. You are doing this because you're scum.

[Wisdom]

I fucking know youre going to use your scumrole to get out of dying. Use it on me and youre fucking dead tomorrow. Nothing youll ever say will excuse you from seeing im obvtown here.

what have you done so far that's 'obvtown'?

claimed a role that allows you to make up a swap-play that gets you out of being lynched?

anyone who's played with me knows this is town-wisdom
my role has nothing to do with it although how ive claimed it and planed to use it does

[Wisdom]

I don't do dealings with scum. If you swap to save yourself and kill me you're dead.

[Wisdom]

Eddie, Fitz, Bu and whoever else hasnt posted recently Ill give you one more chance to say your part about the plan. After that I am swapping Pine with realmen and we're lynching G3.

[Wisdom]

I don't do dealings with scum. If you swap to save yourself and kill me you're dead.

if you're town, the loss is on you if the game gets fucked because of your swap

i've given you every warning about it

the game cannot be possibly fucked by my swap because I save 3 townies. Keep your "warnings" for newbies.

[Wisdom]

btw, dram's mod question is STILL the single most town thing anyone has done in this game

no it isnt. pretty fakeable.

[Wisdom]

zmuffin either is scum with dram or dram is town and he wants people to townread dram so they are less inclined to lynch g3
rationally the latter is more likely as iirc dram being stupid is not out of the ordinary

[Wisdom]

I think the way it came out is completely nai.

[Wisdom]

zmuffin either is scum with dram or dram is town and he wants people to townread dram so they are less inclined to lynch g3
rationally the latter is more likely as iirc dram being stupid is not out of the ordinary

"zmuffin either is scum with dram or scum without dram"

really cheeky but if zmuffin is scum with his swapout power we can't lynch him today because he can always eject button out

let's ignore him for now

I know. Just dont let him live if he swaps himself with me or another obvtown. He should be swapping for Riku or fitz.

[Wisdom]

dv it would feel great if town didnt assist scum with shading me

I saw your reads. You agree that a fitz/muffin/[Pine/riku] is a strong possibility. What is there not to buy? Arent you just turned off by my playstyle?

[Wisdom]

because it seems obvious to me
Kokichi does not do this as scum
I dont do it as scum
The best way we lynch scum is my plan
Scum ARE going to try and stop my plan so I cant help but suspect whoever is trying to

@dv

[Wisdom]

@wisdom

why havent you made the swap yet? or are you waiting for the host to announce it?

Because I want everyone to chip in
Ill post it inthread when I do it

[Wisdom]

what don't you do as scum?

Anything I've done
Try to paint Kokichi as lying only to agree with him afterwards
Try to lynch my group only to back off afterwards because I thought of a better plan
etc etc
Its a trajectory thing. Its obvious I do things as I think them through and as things change. While as scum I'd have a certain agenda I'd be strongly pushing from the beginning.

[Wisdom]

@wisdom

why havent you made the swap yet? or are you waiting for the host to announce it?

Because I want everyone to chip in
Ill post it inthread when I do it

Wisdom, your approach whenever someone disagrees with you is to call them either wrong or scum.

What would having people chip in possibly change?

despite what it looks like I'm open to be convinced I'm wrong. Besides, people locking into stances about things is only going to be helpful afterwards

[Wisdom]

I'm not a great scum player by any means, but faking a trajectory and throwing in some weird things that "scum wouldn't do" isn't that hard.

im not saying i cant fake a trajectory, im saying the trajectory ive had here is hard to fake
Like, I'd probably insist Kokichi should be ignored, or I would come out with the claim from the beginning and push the same plan I'm pushing now instead of favoring lynching my group first

[Wisdom]

lets do this differently
dv, if you knew that me and kokichi are town, would you agree with my plan?

[Wisdom]

or i might sleep on it and reconsider -- i suppose the other option is him doing his selfish swap, me swapping someone like hf and just lynching the group after it but that's not as good as just lynching group 2 i think

if you are town this is the only thing you should be doing. Either fitz or Riku.

[Wisdom]

I dont care.

What made you start caring?

i was angry at what i was reading when i made this
i want town to work with me here rather than being swayed to not townread me and kokichi

[Wisdom]

thats a cool excuse for not doing the strictly protown thing

[Wisdom]

except thats a not a good analogy when you lose more townies with one plan and fewer with another

[Wisdom]

Why do you keep scumreading realmen

@cakez

[Wisdom]

Realmen is it ok if i swap dram instead of you
The defenses on him are getting me and im just feeling hes town after all

[Wisdom]

Actually i can just swap muffin
Hes going to save himself with his swap anyway if i dont

[Wisdom]

Then again if hes scum this will let him have his swap available for the future

bah

[Wisdom]

the only thing that troubles me is how easily realmen agreed with me
I guess town is expected to disagree with me after all since they don't know im town or kokichi's meta

[Wisdom]

Still better than lynching the same bunch of obvtown today
At least we get a chance at not being wrong

@cakez

[Wisdom]

Okay im currently leaning on swapping dram instead of Realmen
If anyone disagrees and prefers realmen, Im listening

[Wisdom]

Because of muffin's claim I think we can use both of your abilities in a cooperate way to give us an even better option. Also because we disagree on RMOJ.

Muffin gets to switch himself with fitz or Riku so we lynch even more potential scum
And i can swap dram instead of rmoj if thats a problem

[Wisdom]

when did you start town-reading dram and why?

When DV made me realize being against my suggestion is not as anti-town as I thought
Plus many people townreading him
Plus the fact your insisting he's town probably means he really is town if you're scum

[Wisdom]

Okay first of all

Muffin swaps first

Wisdom doesn't reverse the swap.

We hammer after both swaps.

If any of these things are not done it is a scum claim from the actor.

Are we agreed so far?

Muffin does not agree with the plan so I don't think he's going to swap before I do

[Wisdom]

and what does the order matter anyway?

[Wisdom]

Pedit - I don't like dramon at all this game. He's pretty much my number 1 scumread.

Who would you swap out of d3 then? Cakez?

[Wisdom]

alternate idea - lynch 1? And swap gal out.

Nah
DV and eddie are townleans

[Wisdom]

I dont see how doing both day 1 is optimal when we might need it later to win

If we use mine we lynch the group muffin is in so muffin is forced to also use it regardless of alignment

[Wisdom]

So it would go like this:
Muffin swaps with wisdom.
Wisdom swaps muffin with dramon (or someone else from G3.. I won't go against majority I just really think it should be dramon)

I dont think you understand the plan
The idea is to save me, Kokichi and you here
So im moving the scum from g2 ie Pine or Miku to g3 and we're lynching g3

[Wisdom]

I know it's better to lynch 4 people instead of 5 but there's no other way to save wisdom and still lynch both pine and riku.

There is. I swap pine to g3 and muffin swaps riku to g3
But its even better if he swaps fitz to g3

[Wisdom]

we are lynching group 2 today.

i approve of swapping kok with someone, probably cakez

that's about it

Eddie if this is what you want this is not how you get it
Again, unless im convinced otherwiss the swap is happening soon. I am holding the cards here.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, I'm not ok with that plan. As I said you both need to not let your egos get in the way and decide on one thing together. Because muffin can just be selfish and change things up regardless

The worst muffin can do is kill another town in place of himself (if hes town)

[Wisdom]

Muffin said that if I switch him hes going to reverse it so not doing that

[Wisdom]

Plus, if hes scum id rather he used up the switching now rather than save it for tomorrow

[Wisdom]

he'll save his ass by swapping someone else.

He said he's potentially open to swapping himself with fitz, which I'm okay with.

[Wisdom]

nope

[Wisdom]

dram explain to me how it is protown from my pov to lynch myself and two people I am townreading so I can lynch 2 people only one of which will be scum 99% of the time

[Wisdom]

oh really we should just ignore dayplay altogether and just play based on mechanics then?

[Wisdom]

that's the mindset of newbies who come from epicmafia or whatever crapsite
it shouldnt be yours
we have reads, we have actions we can use to make use of them

[Wisdom]

cakez you feel like you agree with whatever
i dont see you having a strong opinion about anything

[Wisdom]

Explain to me how is it protown from your pov to lynch people you have no guarantee of scum over a guaranteed scumflip, just to save your ass and that of your townreads.

Because it's still a guaranteed scumflip
If Pine flips town Riku is scum
And all of group 3 is scummier than Kokichi and Bu

[Wisdom]

Mafia isnt probabilities
Its reading people

[Wisdom]

When you have a cop guilty, you don't ignore it, especially when you can lynch the cop and the guilty in the same play. It literally covers all bases.

I am not ignoring it, it's still there if Pine flips town
And I dont care to lynch the cop when I have a cop guilty.

[Wisdom]

cakez, realmen is town here. What he's saying is what I'm thinking.

[Wisdom]

cakez, realmen is town here. What he's saying is what I'm thinking.

nvm I keep getting paranoid about this

[Wisdom]

its like realmen is trying to stroke my ego here and get on my good side

[Wisdom]

im not wrong more often than not

[Wisdom]

i want you to flip, realmen, sorry
it's not natural for you to agree with me so much

[Wisdom]

Swapping Pine for dram as it is. Probably in a few hours.

[Wisdom]

Bu and whoever else scumreads dram: No matter how stupid I think he's being here with sticking to the probabilities and such I think he is being genuine here. Cakez is waffly and I think has decent chances of being scum. Realmen agreeing with me makes me think he could be scum buddying me. muffin is going to use his swap. So I think dram's the best choice here.

[Wisdom]

wait who is realmen actually?

Idk, I didnt mean that as personal

[Wisdom]

cool
and its still with honor since we're getting pine (and riku via guilty extension if pine flips town)

[Wisdom]

muffin wont die

[Wisdom]

when i argued the first i was in ego mode
then i realized town dont know im town nor kokichi's meta so they should be disagreeing with me

[Wisdom]

besides, I remembered I have shouted at people for "people are disagreeing with me, i hate them must be scum" stances and I felt bad doing it myself

[Wisdom]

loleddie

[Wisdom]

not telling you

[Wisdom]

how is pine town
he's all over the place
one moment he wants to be swapped to g3 then he wants g2 to be lynched instead

[Wisdom]

Wis before you swap I'd recheck the bujaber townread. That'd be how this turns disastrous.

pretty sure this is town bu

[Wisdom]

nsg what swap would you do in my shoes?