Mini 2011: Partition Mafia (Game Over)

[dramonic]

Im here.
VOTE: 1

[dramonic]

Then you need to sharpen your senses (branches?) Cuz we already have two visible scum in group 1 and 2.
Japanese name person in grp 2 and 1 long meaningless name in grp 1 (on phone too lazy to look back)

I havent really checked whos in my group besides muffin but he doesnt ping me.

[dramonic]

Realmen can be town too for now.

i'm pretty sure your townread of kokichi comes from meta.

Pretty sure it comes from being scum together.

[dramonic]

Which is convenient cuz it fits the play of most people in here.

[dramonic]

Id rather not lynch our group, it's full of pastries.

[dramonic]

?

[dramonic]

Nobody outside group 2 is scumreading anyone in group 2

Im not opposed to a group2 lynch either, there's scum there, but if I can play with you and Pine longer I don't see why I should off you this early.
fitz and DV are better collaterals.
Or worse collaterals, whichever wording you want.
They can die.

[dramonic]

I cannot fathom how anyone can read through the last few pages and still think NSG is town.
Truly these are trying times.

RMOJ continue to make a lot of noise that boils down to nothing.
Riku is a VI
Pine is a wench and breaks my heart.

Yall make me very sad.

Edit: seppuku is suicide with a dishonor flavor

[dramonic]

I would argue the collateral point fitz but you're totally right in context <.<

[dramonic]

You cut me deep pine.
You cut me deep.

[dramonic]

Im not opaque Im concentrated.

[dramonic]

That's a large pile you're buildin

[dramonic]

-v('_')v-

[dramonic]

... ill give you a pass because youve been tired.

This is mountainous. Was announced as mountainous in signup. Is listed as mountainous in the OP

[dramonic]

(Technically it says no night action)

@Mod: confirm/deny that this is mountainous?

[dramonic]

Pine you're making me uneasy. Can't you just placate me or something?

[dramonic]

Are people serious about the pr claims? I thought this was confirmed all vanilla/goons?

this setup would be really frickin scumsided as a vanilla setup. this wasn't run in the open queue for a reason.

You have no concept of balance.

The only thing "japanese name person" implies is that im phonepostin and cant open an extra tab to confirm names.
Same way I didnt parse NSG's name not just being nonsense and therefore called her... whatever is it I called her.

[dramonic]

1 long meaningless name.

[dramonic]

I could shift to group 2 but at this point Im getting the warm fuzzies that we're looking at 2-1-0

[dramonic]

keep telling yourself that <3

[dramonic]

Saying "we only get one mislynch" when 10 town dies in your scenario is a fascinating interpretation.

[dramonic]

okay, i understand its hard being shit at something you've done for almost a decade and its hard to accept that, so i'll break it down even more.

If scum does the most basic strategy of even spreads

we have a 5 / 4 / 4 day 1, each with 1 scum. we are assuming optimal lynching for this scenario. we lynch a 4.

that leaves the number at 7:2 going into night. we enter the day with 3 / 3 / 3, with 2 of the 3 containing scum. IF we mislynch and hit 3 town, its 4:2 going into night and then 3:2 going into day, so lylo. 1 mislynch.

if we lynch correctly, its 5:1, and day starts with 2 / 2 / 2 and 1 of those groups contains a scum. if we mislynch, 2 out of 3 of the slots filling that bill, then we are 3:1 and a night kill or not leaves it at mylo / lylo tomorrow. 1 mislynch.

yes, mislynches are less likely by a bit because of the fact there's less mislynchable slots, but there's also far less opportunities to lynch properly and scum control who you lynch. also, people will wifom and self vote a ton so unlike normal slots will be advocating for their own lynch some of the time as we've seen lots of here.

then there's the other dynamic:

scum goes for wifom

lets say they stick with a 4/5/4 split. the 5 has no scum, and we lynch it. then its 5:3, nk 4:3, lylo. 1 mislynch.
4 has no scum, and we lynch it. then its 6:3. nk 5:3. pretty much lylo.
or scum could do 3:7:3, and if the scum are not in the 7 and we lynch it we just lose, but if scum wifom'd and put all of them and we don't lynch it (the likelier outcome) then free 3 townies dead. or, they put 2 scum in it, we lynch it, and we are now at 3:1 lylo after the nk.

and then we get into the fact its still mountainous and towns on this site do awfully in mountainous, worse than rand a lot of the time.


in conclusion: yes granddad, computers

are

in fact useful. technology

isn't

evil. also, this is pretty much confirmed to not be mountainous because its not in the open queue so there's elements that aren't open. fuck off.

You appear to be playing a RNG, so I'll leave you to that.
Meantime, let's play mafia?
Maybe?

The extras who die in each group are a lot of information. People do bad in mountainous because of heavy information shortage. This setup vomits information every phase.
I didn't know this was such a hard concept to grasp.

[dramonic]

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE -

?

[dramonic]

I caught two scum already, now I'm bored

[dramonic]

Eddie, Fitz, and especially NSG all feel solidly Town to me. I don't remember DV's meta well enough to make a judgment yet, but Muffin wants him and Muffin is still pinging me.

ouch

[dramonic]

The only thing that was stopping me from voting group 3 was that I thought RMOJ and dramon are too scummy to be scum and my strongish townread of cake.

[dramonic]

I am looking for people who have an agenda of not lynching their group and you're fitting it

You're supposed to be looking for scum.
Thought you'd like to know.

[dramonic]

which im doing and ive found them

Your current scumteam is me/pine/eddie.
To what do I owe the flattering honor of being your primary lynch?

Could it be... that you don't actually want to lynch yourself?
Wis you're full of shit but I love you anyways.

[dramonic]

I've been away too long clearly, because your reasoning is fucking weird.
@Wis

[dramonic]

Cakez is pretty obviously town tbh, not sure what you're smoking.
The great thing is that I can say that and you want to lynch me so it doesn't matter, but I get to go ITYS afterwards :3

[dramonic]

I didn't even realize Bu was trying to push dram with that, I just thought it was an open question about how to read dram.

I'm actually really easy to read, but I might be biased.
If I were scum I'd play like NSG or Kokichi, aka bs content generation.

[dramonic]

so two people in the group I've been tunneling all day and me. cool!

notice how that's a shit argument?still better than your push on me

yeah like how sugar and kokichi argued kokichi cant possibly be scum with mollie because bussing does not exist

you can tunnel g3 all day long and it wont matter shit if you find an excuse to vote elsewhere in the end like you're doing right now

the difference is I'm good at mafia

Let's not get carried away here.
What are your reads again?

[dramonic]

You are aware of course that both Cakez and I have been pushing 1 since Day 0?

ninjaed sorta

[dramonic]

Honestly, you're talking about Cakez shading you but all I'm seeing is you trying to paint him in the light of evul because he doesn't have the reads you want to hear.

EDIT: It wouldn't look like that if you weren't so far up your own ass tbh.

[dramonic]

Nobody outside group 2 is scumreading anyone in group 2

Im not opposed to a group2 lynch either, there's scum there, but if I can play with you and Pine longer I don't see why I should off you this early.
fitz and DV are better collaterals.
Or worse collaterals, whichever wording you want.
They can die.

Don't forget that one too Wisdom

[dramonic]

it's an intentional part of how I play. my ass is pretty nice. could use a shave tbh.

I was actually talking to Wisdom, but I'm happy about this breakthrough in your anal grooming.

Can we all lynch mygroup, I know for certain scum is in it

Well no shit, you opened your role PM.

@Eddie: I don't think so.

[dramonic]

Kokichi, how do you evaluate your scumhunting abilities?

Wisdom Koki is claiming a PR group day-cop thing. Or something.
At least that's what I THINK he's doing?

[dramonic]

I'm a one shot scum detector. There is scum in group 2

[dramonic]

I don't get the town incentive of suicide-bombing like that for a lie?
I get it from a scum PoV of either "I want to keep my buddies alive" or "I want person X and Y to die" though.

[dramonic]

I've lied to push a lynch I wanted before as town, but it wasn't on

myself

EDIT: I don't need to shade Kokichi I called him scum like 3 posts in <_<

[dramonic]

Then you need to sharpen your senses (branches?) Cuz we already have two visible scum in group 1 and 2.
Japanese name person in grp 2 and 1 long meaningless name in grp 1 (on phone too lazy to look back)

I havent really checked whos in my group besides muffin but he doesnt ping me.

2
damn you efficiency.

[dramonic]

I have this vote restriction where I can only vote one slot at a time, sorry.
And I don't need to "prepare" to move my vote, I already said I'd jump on that bone.

[dramonic]

You're trying to paint me in a really negative light that seems based entirely on not having read my posts mate.

[dramonic]

You're far more concerned with how I look that I am.
Thanks?

[dramonic]

Curses, foiled again.
Okay seriously I'm gonna stop posting, we're just jacking up the post count.
You think I'm scum, go you or whatever.

[dramonic]

On another topic since 2 is dying today - can we talk about REALMEN? I just looked at their ISO and it's entirely shitposting, mechanics talk and unexplained reads. There's no real gamesolving. IDK how I had them at null.

Lol no, this is scared scum. Go ahead, try to take down the unexpectedly ballsy guy. See if that works for you.

Ok.
I can swap a person in a group with a person in another group.
I can't target myself.
I'm obviously swapping Kokichi out of 2, but now we need to decide who goes in.

I thought you didn't want to swap the scum out of 2?

[dramonic]

first quote was to say that cakez and REALMEN are in the same group, so clearly he ain't trying very hard.

[dramonic]

That's all lovely except for the part where Kokichi is most likely scum.
I am actively against any plan that doesn't involve Kokichi dying if we're lynching within group 2 or 3.

[dramonic]

To protect superior scum players in other groups.
Or because there's 2 scum in one of the other group and they dont want a DK.
Or because it's 1-1-1 and 2 has more townies to kill.
Or... do I need to go on?

@Wisdom: You want me to trust you.

really

[dramonic]

you're advocating for lynching town when we have confirmed scum.

[dramonic]

you're advocating for lynching town when we have confirmed scum.

flail more
my method gets rid of more scum and less town

Your method gets rid of between 0 and 1 scum.

[dramonic]

vote: group 2

What a waste of a day.

[dramonic]

That's... not answering the question.

[dramonic]

okay i'm bored of my "reaction test"

group 3 has scum because Muffin either rolled scum, therefore it has scum, or he rolled town and scum either did a 1 / 1 / 1 split or they put a couple with Muffin because nobody wants to lynch a legend on the first game back. the latter works depending on who in this game would ahve known muffin even by name aside myself, so if muffin could do a list that'd be swell and if people want to self-identify that's townpoints. fits with it being the old tryhard group. my first choice is not swapping because its possible ROJ is one of the scum there and switching is a liability. obviously, this is wifom city but i don't see a better place to push and this is by far the best grouping. i think wisdom's role probably makes him town, unfortunately.

Who here actually knows who Muffin is? Like in terms of legend status.

There's nothing legendary about muffin.
He's a pastry <_<

[dramonic]

That townblock is MINIMUM least 66% scum.

[dramonic]

edit: 50%

[dramonic]

everyone is confident in pine/riku scum so the logic goes if it's not one of them we get the other next day
and there's three pretty confident townreads in 2 (buj, wis, koki) that are worth saving

There is no word for how wrong you are <_<

[dramonic]

Wisdom is the one who claimed.

[dramonic]

Honestly it's stupid that we should swap anyone in this instance as it's strictly a loss of information, but it's stupid that there would be a swap role to begin with.

or any roles for that matter

EDIT: Oh yeah, that's a safe option

[dramonic]

I. Already. Did. Its. One. Shot. And. Detects. If. There. Is. Scum. In. A. Group.

why would you target the bigger group and your own group
both are suboptimal

Technically no, it's one shot and it insures a scum lynch because there's no ground for ambiguity. Either he's scum, or he's found scum.
If he were to target any other group we go into the wifom territory of "what if hes lying to lynch an all-town group".

Of course, we WANT to be suboptimal, so it's moot.

[dramonic]

town

reads

Any time, any day.

Worst case scenario we end up 5-2 (with scum using their nightkill) and we can work from what the scum said.
5-2 is not a bad in this setup.


It's not rocket science:

Is scum guaranteed to die?
You fucking do it.

You don't win this game by playing gambits, you win it by lynching scum.

[dramonic]

Okay, correction, we could end up 4-3 if Koki is both lying and town.
I'm choosing to exclude that possibility for my own sanity.

[dramonic]

dramonic, do you always do this "i already caught all of the scum" thing? completely serious / game-related question.

More often than not, yes.
Although I didn't say I caught ALL the scum.

EDIT: You're probably right Cakez, but I'm entertaining the hope that he's not as bad as he's playing so far this game.
EDITx2: o/ o/

[dramonic]

null towards town in muffin's case.
null for Wisdom.

[dramonic]

do people disagree their claims are pretty damn town indicative?,

They're not.
Koki's most likely scum lying.
Wisdom's role is made antitown by Koki's.


EDIT: Again, it's the only use of that role that doesn't come with wifom.

[dramonic]

Wisdom's role is made antitown by Koki's.

?

Swapping people automatically takes us from 100% scum lynch to ~85% scum lynch (if we lynch 2) or some other lower value which I've no idea how to calculate if we don't.

[dramonic]

Like I'm pretty sure the

idea

of the role as town would be to fuck up the scum's setup.
What Wisdom is considering doing is fucking up the cop <_<

[dramonic]

If he swaps out Koki and Koki was fakeclaiming (which is my primary theory) we're most likely in lylo.

[dramonic]

Then if I'm scum just lynch me. This is getting stupid. We have confirmed scum in group 2. I had no way of knowing what wisdoms power was, dram. So why would I be scum trying to lynch myself? You make no sense

I gave three different reasons, none of which have anything to do with Wisdom's role.

On another topic since 2 is dying today - can we talk about REALMEN? I just looked at their ISO and it's entirely shitposting, mechanics talk and unexplained reads. There's no real gamesolving. IDK how I had them at null.

About time


Wisdom: you definitely swap koki out. Koki is either 100% telling the truth or is scum. The flip would tell us the answer. Also everyone has suspects from group 3. I for one am not townreading any of them except possibly cake. Swap koki with realmen. Or swap koki with dramon. Or maybe even muffin because I'm not seeing what makes him so town either except for the fact that he's agreeing with dramon which is suicide for scum. Because dramon's strategies are horrible imo.

And for those doubting koki -
Why did he vote for group 2 long before claiming?
How would he know about wisdom's role?


I like the idea of locktowning koki tomorrow, and we have a good chance of hitting 2 scum if we swap him with someone in group 3.

Alternatively we can maybe swap DV or eddie with koki since there's some disagreement on who scum is in group 3. Like it's such a polarizing group.

You really hate lynching confirmed scum don't you.

[dramonic]

I see no reason to doubt him.

That wine sounds delicious.

But you should believe me because I'm actually a setup cop and I know that Kokichi is scum.

[dramonic]

I think your claimed role could fit with either scum or town.

muffin claimed something? <_<

[dramonic]

Group 3 had not grown in 150 posts when he claimed, I don't know why you call that overtaking. Actually Group 2 had grown since.
Group 1 was the same size as well.

You're just... wrong through and through.

[dramonic]

In both of these cases we swap him out with someone in group 3 and we have a very good chance of hitting scum.

OR we don't swap and have a 100% chance of hitting scum.

This is incredibly basic.

[dramonic]

Swapping out confirmed Town for another scumspect like Cakez or Dram

NO GOD FUCKING DAMMIT

How
Fucking
Dense
Are
You
People

>:(

[dramonic]

At least with mine 1 scum is pretty guaranteed and a good chance of finding 2 scum.

That is inaccurate on many different level.

My scenario guarantees 1+
Your scenario gives anywhere from 0 to 2.

[dramonic]

It's a fucking bus driver with flavor, there's nothing bastardy about it.
Holy fuck just... stop.

[dramonic]

It should not be pulling teeth to lynch the fucking cop guilty.

[dramonic]

The guilty is
[BuJaber, Wisdom, Kokichi, Pine, Riku]

It's not
[BuJaber, Wisdom, Muffin, Pine, Riku]
It's not
[BuJaber, Dramonic, Kokichi, Pine Riku]
It's not
[Cakez, Wisdom Kokichi, Pine, Riku]
It's not
[BuJaber, Wisdom, Kokichi, RMOJ, Riku]

It's [BuJaber, Wisdom, Kokichi, Pine, Riku].
You don't fuck up the guilty for the lolz because you think you're better than facts.
You lynch the group as is and you get your scum lynch

Fucking Christ, and I though I had an ego.

[dramonic]

I don't.

However
If I'm wrong, there is scum in group 2.
If I'm right, there is scum in group 2.

[dramonic]

This is literally the opposite of confirmation bias. It's fact bias <_<

[dramonic]

Bus driver is so different wtf

In a game where scum have all the power in deciding who goes in which group, giving them the power to change their mind during the day seems cruel and op to me. That is why it's bastardy.

The ONLY reason to give this role to scum would be to fuck with town into falsely townreading the player. It's bastardy.

It's like you think partitioning is bad for town.
It makes scum way easier to lynch.
Then again, there are people like you who don't want to lynch confirmed scum, so...

[dramonic]

i honestly do not care what people think of how i'm playing (i thought this was going to be a relaxing game that wouldn't require me explaining such basic things but here i am). this is the exact reason i stopped playing a couple years ago, only this time i'm not exploding in a fit of rage about it because it isn't really worth it. i'm so sick of towns doing stupid shit based on shitty assumptions that end up being wrong most of the time and i hate having to play with people who can't think logically or are so confident about something that they're willing to ignore best play

This, except I get the fits or rage.

Any use of the swapping power is 100% antitown and stupid at this juncture.

Worst case scenario of lynching group 2 as is is losing 4 town for 1 scum
Best case scenario of any other lynch and/or swap is not losing 4 town.

Anybody who considers that option 2 is superior to option 1 should just quit playing mafia, because it's honestly real fucking sad that basic logic is beyond your grasps.

Any instance of swapping needs to end up with me dead, because I have no interest in putting up with the stupidity of people in this game.
I signed up for a mafia game, not fucking kindergarten.

[dramonic]

I set the standards for you people so fucking low and you still fail to meet it

"But we might get 4 dead toooooown"
Yes, and we get 1 guaranteed scum. It's the proper play because it has a 0% fail rate, as opposed to any other plan.

"But Wisdom/Koki is confirmed"
I don't see no mod post saying that, so no, they're not.

"But my perspective-"
Your perspective is not a fact.

[dramonic]

Mafia is not about saving townies, it's about lynching scum.
The only townie you don't want to die is the one in lylo.

[dramonic]

dram explain to me how it is protown from my pov to lynch myself and two people I am townreading so I can lynch 2 people only one of which will be scum 99% of the time

Because it guarantees you hit scum, whereas any other option involves relying on imperfect information.
Explain to me how is it protown from your pov to lynch people you have no guarantee of scum over a guaranteed scumflip, just to save your ass and that of your townreads.

oh really we should just ignore dayplay altogether and just play based on mechanics then?

When you have a cop guilty, you don't ignore it, especially when you can lynch the cop and the guilty in the same play. It literally covers all bases.

that's the mindset of newbies who come from epicmafia or whatever crapsite
it shouldnt be yours
we have reads, we have actions we can use to make use of them

Your reads should guide your actions, not reduce the information we can play with. Check your ego.

EDIT: Lynching three scum and winning the game files under "not lynching 4 townies", genius.

[dramonic]

Or we could not swap and all 3 scums are already in group 2.

You know, we can build a lot of stupid theories together if that's your kick.

[dramonic]

... Jesus Christ you suck at probabilities.

[dramonic]

Explain to me how is it protown from your pov to lynch people you have no guarantee of scum over a guaranteed scumflip, just to save your ass and that of your townreads.

Because it's still a guaranteed scumflip
If Pine flips town Riku is scum
And all of group 3 is scummier than Kokichi and Bu

Neither Riku nor Pine is guaranteed to be scum. You just paint whatever bullshit you want in a color you see fit.

Mafia isnt probabilities
Its reading people

Mafia is about using the information you get to lynch the scum. You are trying to reduce the information we have. Nobody cares about your reads.

the guilty doesnt magically get invalidated tomorrow so if for some fucking reason riku/pine isn't scum then we can further narrow it down to bu/wisdom/kok

but me and wisdom strongly believe that the scum lies in riku/pine

how fucking hard is it to understand

That takes several days. We could rule out the entire thing in 1 single lynch.

When you have a cop guilty, you don't ignore it, especially when you can lynch the cop and the guilty in the same play. It literally covers all bases.

I am not ignoring it, it's still there if Pine flips town
And I dont care to lynch the cop when I have a cop guilty.

Pine's alignment is irrelevant to the situation.

... Jesus Christ you suck at probabilities.

by sheer probability group 2 has 1 scum in it WITH OR WITHOUT KOKICHI'S GUILTY

so what? would your actions change? who gives a flying fuck dude. we would still play normally because the cards are already set. it shouldnt change anything

I would be lynching group 1 if there wasn't a guilty on the table.

blind lynching group 2 would have netted us 1 scum anyway in the first place.

Not necessarely.

[dramonic]

i wonder what it takes to lynch 1 scum

maybe closing my eyes and choosing a random partition would help

i guess thats what this game is about! playing probabilities and not considering day play! shoulda used an RNG for that!

That's what you're trying to do by swapping.

[dramonic]

welp.
GG scumwins.

[dramonic]

Dram and muffin kept saying they wanted to lynch group 2 as is to "guarantee 1 scum dead". When I suggested seaps that guarantee 1 scum dead plus a possible 2nd or 3rd they ignored it.
They're not being genuine. They're trying to nuke this game by appealing to emotion to get townread or frustrating the motivation to play out of the players. Exhausted / emotional town make bad decisions.

You have never proposed such a thing, so go fuck yourself.

[dramonic]

Read the fucking definition of the word guarantee.

[dramonic]

Congrats Wisdom on succesfully screwing over what could have been an easy scum lynch.

EDIT: Muffin swaps with Wisdom
Wisdom swaps me and muffin

Group 2: Koki, Dram, Riku, Pine, Bub
Group 3: Wisdom, RMOJ, Cakez, Muffin

If Wisdom was the scum and we lynch group 2 we failed

Go.
Fuck.
Yourself.

[dramonic]

I don't give a flying fuck about your reads because they're based in make-believe.

[dramonic]

vote: group 2

This is by far the most likely to hit scum group, especially after that garbage play.

[dramonic]

@Wisdom: After your swap we no longer have any proper chance to hit scum. Your swap was fueled entirely by ego.

I have no reason to believe Koki's claim
I have no reason to believe Pine is town
I have no reason to believe buj is town
I have no reason to believe RMOJ is town
I have no reason to believe your action came from town, cuz at the very least it didnt come from a town mindset.

I'll take my chance, since I can't get an accurate shot on scum anymore.

[dramonic]

You threw the one advantage we had.
Good fucking job.

[dramonic]

I fully expect Muffin to do the town thing and not worsen the situation as you wish he would.

[dramonic]

dram you're boring and im glad youre dying

if youre town you should look up what scumhunting is and use it instead of relying on roles and mechanics

You should look up what logic is regardless of alignment.
Cuz that was absolute trash reasoning and play, through and through.


EDIT: If you both flip town along with the rest of the group we threw our one mislynch on the game, then scum can split Wisdom and Buj, insuring we have a good shot at a second mislynch and a loss.

[dramonic]

It's hilarious that you'd say I'm trying to muddy the waters when I have advocated the entire time for the one move that DOESN'T muddy the water.

EDIT: That's WIFOM by definition.

[dramonic]

NOBODY
GIVES
A
FLYING
FUCK
ABOUT
HOW
MANY
TOWN
DIES
AS
COLLATERAL

Holy FUCKING SHIT you have no concept of proper play.

[dramonic]

SCUM CONTROLS THE PACE OF THE GAME, SAVING 1 EXTRA POTENTIAL TOWN SLOT DOES

NOTHING

YOU RUINED OUR ONE GUARANTEE AT A SCUM LYNCH BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN EVERYONE YOU

[dramonic]

We. Do. Not. Lose. Faster.

Jesus fucking christ.

[dramonic]

There's nothing chill about this game
I joined this to get to play an interesting modified mountainous with people like Muffin, Pine and Wisdom
Not only this is not the game I signed up for, Wisdom has apparently gone to the fucking deep end in my absence.

I'm seriously hoping he's scum because if not he's gone beyond shit.

[dramonic]

Theres no fucking way we lynch group 2 after my swap
Whoever suggests this is either scum or incredibly stupid or mad his ego didnt win

He says, playing entirely on ego.

[dramonic]

Why am I trying to prosecute this to the peanut gallery?

@MUFFIN: OKAY, I GET IT YOU'RE TOWN

SWAP ME INTO GROUP 3, I THINK THERE'S A 60-70% CHANCE WE WIN THE GAME D1

PLEASE READ MY ISO FROM TODAY

The only reason you think you're getting mislynched is because this game has a loud of loud garbage.

[dramonic]

*lot of

[dramonic]

I assume your play was based on logic, not fucking ego.
Maybe I was misguided.

[dramonic]

If you wanna jack off all over a thread you should stick to GD.
Mafia isn't about what makes you feel good about yourself.

[dramonic]

Technically speakeasy, since talk of jackin off isn't GD appropriate.

[dramonic]

I played with him in the past and it didn't look like

that

[dramonic]

Well then maybe I forgot.
Now I'm sad.

[dramonic]

Not without you voting anyways.

[dramonic]

...Do you know what AtE is?

[dramonic]

Are you reading the game Pine?

[dramonic]

AtE is just basically being used in tandem with "emotional" here. I know its not grammatically correct but its how its used in mafia nowadays.

I'm always posting under some kind of emotion.
Usually disdain.

[dramonic]

@pine:

[dramonic]

See,

that's

what AtE is.

[dramonic]

I forgive you.

[dramonic]

Your reads have been awful this game Pine.

[dramonic]

I haven't been hostile towards you <_<

[dramonic]

We need input from more people.
Unfortunately your input so far has been "kill me", which is not all that useful, so waiting for others and making small chat!~

[dramonic]

If Eddie can move people the only intelligent play would be to put Riku back in Group 2

EDIT: It also ignores the game state.

[dramonic]

No Riku probably needs to go at some point

What do you think putting him back in group 2 does <_<

[dramonic]

The group 3 lynch going through would be a travesty.
Itd be par for the course, tbh.

[dramonic]

OH GAWD THE IRONY

[dramonic]

Then just vote group 3.
Regardless of what Muffin does, none of your top 3 scumreads is leaving.

EDIT: False

[dramonic]

false at cake not pine.
Pine's right, obviously.

[dramonic]

You can't play mafia and not make any assumptions at all. Scum will have a field day with us if we are only doing the "trust no one" approach.

That's irrelevant to the point

In a normal mafia game if 2 people's posts contradict each other you'd never opt for ignoring both of them because you can't guarantee which is truthful. You would analyze each and lynch the one you feel is less believable.

This is neither a normal game nor an accurate portrayal of the situation.
Risking 4 town to lynch 1 scum just because we are too scared to trust our reads is bad play. Also there is info gained. Even with the worst case scenario that wisdom is the only scum in group 2 and we swap him out with a townie (which btw is a scenario that doesn't fit with everything that happened) we would know for a fact that wisdom is scum and that there were 2 scum outsude of group 2.[/quote]The only info we get is "we fucked up". We'd have lynched 0 scum and lost 4/5 town.
Yeah, that's totally better than 4 town 1 scum minimum.

We coulda also have no swap, lynch group 2, net 1 scum minimum and know there were 2 scum outside of group 2. Except we'd be at worst 6-2 instead of 5-3

[dramonic]

Quote fail

You can't play mafia and not make any assumptions at all. Scum will have a field day with us if we are only doing the "trust no one" approach.

That's irrelevant to the point

In a normal mafia game if 2 people's posts contradict each other you'd never opt for ignoring both of them because you can't guarantee which is truthful. You would analyze each and lynch the one you feel is less believable.

This is neither a normal game nor an accurate portrayal of the situation.

Risking 4 town to lynch 1 scum just because we are too scared to trust our reads is bad play. Also there is info gained. Even with the worst case scenario that wisdom is the only scum in group 2 and we swap him out with a townie (which btw is a scenario that doesn't fit with everything that happened) we would know for a fact that wisdom is scum and that there were 2 scum outsude of group 2.

The only info we get is "we fucked up". We'd have lynched 0 scum and lost 4/5 town.
Yeah, that's totally better than 4 town 1 scum minimum.

We coulda also have no swap, lynch group 2, net 1 scum minimum and know there were 2 scum outside of group 2. Except we'd be at worst 6-2 instead of 5-3

[dramonic]

dramonic is a pussy and should be treated accordingly

Stop.

[dramonic]

This antic of "manliness" is both offensive and promoting disgusting stereotypes.
This is a mafia game, not an RP session.

[dramonic]

@Implosion: You wouldn't allow sexism or homophobia in a game and this is just a different flavor of the same type of bullshit. Do something about RMOJ

[dramonic]

@Implosion: You wouldn't allow sexism or homophobia in a game and this is just a different flavor of the same type of bullshit. Do something about RMOJ

It's a stupid schtick. I find your thin skinned "offense" very hypocritical given you have no problem telling Wisdom and BuJaber to both fuck off. I find that language bullying and demeaning. Surely implosion wouldn't allow that in this game. Something something about stones and glass houses.

Telling someone to fuck off is not an attack on who they are as a person.
So...
Fuck off.

[dramonic]

If Muffin were to swap himself and Fitz, I'd be willing to lynch Group 3.

brb getting a new keyboard to smash in half

[dramonic]

So, how about that 2-3 scumlynch?

I'm not gonna dignify that with an answer besides "I'm not gonna dignify that with an answer"

[dramonic]

Because all the claims so far in this game can be tested and managed. It's all out in the open and during the day.

How's that working for you so far?

[dramonic]

holy fuck it's my scumday

[dramonic]

If we shouldn't make decisions based on the likelihood of things being true, in other words if all scenarios are equally likely, why do people not use randomness more?
More specifically to partition mafia setup is there an actual difference between 4 town 0 scum dead and 4 town 1 scum dead if the first scenario gives us confirmed scum? Wouldn't they be equal in terms of town to scum ratio but scenario 1 would give towm something to act upon given that they know the alignment of one member of the day 2 groups?

I know this was aimed at Muffin but I can answer to.
You should not act on randomness if you can avoid it, obviously. Reads are important and all, but mod info is canon. Furthermore, specifically to this setup 4 dead townie for 0 scum is really bad because it means we have to lynch scum every day thereafter and scum gets a lot of power from that. Depending on which rendition of 4 dead town you take the result varies. If for example we lynch group 3 and we all flip town, you go into tomorrow knowing there is scum among Wisdom, Kokichi and Pine (from your PoV). Scum can choose to split them all equally, making this a roulette to find out who was scum/lying. Sure you can rely on the rest of the group, but it's still a crapshoot. If the 4 dead townie are group 2 (let's say 5 for the sake of argument in case RMOJ flips town too), we'll know Riku was scum but we'll have a pretty tough time lynching him anyways because Scum could just play the gambit game and put him in a larger group (like a 3-2-2 split). Is there scum in all three groups and lynching Riku in group 1 gonna make us lose? We have an outted scum sure, but lynching him can make us lose. Not only that, but NOT hitting scum kills us too because it's lylo.
Now, if you choose instead to lynch the 4 town 1 scum route, you go into day 2 with no information on living players, but a dead scum. at this juncture there is no endgaming setup for the scum besides baiting us to lynch a larger townbloc (like 3-2-2 with the 3 all being town). This gives us 2 100% safe groups to lynch (with potential scum in them too!). NOW you play on reads, discuss, be merry, have a drink and mislynch people in the worst case scenario. Scum can of course pile into group 1 knowing that it's a dangerous group to lynch because it's the ONE group that can kill us, but we don't lose if we don't call them on it, so it's nbd.

The funny part is that when we net 2-3 scum as a result of my plan dram muffin and co will just call me "lucky" and "you just flipped a coin for your reads" and stuff
Ive seen it a million times

I wouldn't say you flipped a coin for your read. What I'm saying is that you're being antitown and putting your reads above mod info. It might give good results (doubt it, but), but that doesn't make it a good play.

Who cares about the eyes of others
You reduce the possibilities of scum getting lynched when you put yourself, who you know is town, in a lynchgroup

You also reduce the possibilities of scum getting lynched when you fuck up a cop guilty. Just sayin

btw, wisdom, do you currently think dram is scum or why did you switch your choice to the REAL MAN?

No, I think hes town
I just think realman is townier
Bonus that dram is toxic and im good with him dying

Hey fun question.
What do you do if both Cakez and Muffin swap into group 1?

Also, come on people. A role that can only move itself has ZERO Town utility and TONS of scum utility. Cakez is scumzor.

Every swapping role has towns of scum utility, self-moving isn't a special case of that. It also has town utility vs the "let's put a townpile together" scum strat.

[dramonic]

yo Wisdom, stop trying to shade muffin and paint his actions as scum.
See how stupid it sounds?

[dramonic]

Hey fun question.
What do you do if both Cakez and Muffin swap into group 1?

that would be bad because we'd miss out on killing pine and riku

That doesn't answer the question.

Like im scumreading him and i see scum motivation in what hes doing
Should i not point it out?

And this doesn't work the other way because...?

[dramonic]

Group 1: Cakez, Muffin, 3 of {Fitz, DV, Eddie, NSG}
Group 2: Wisdom, Koki, Buj, Pine, RMOJ
Group 3: Dram, Riku, one of {Fitz, DV, Eddie, NSG}

Let's pick DV cuz you don't appear to have a read on him.

[dramonic]

Also i consider myself pretty transparent and obvtown in this game so i have a very hard time seeing what muffin is doing as town

Cut back on the powder.

[dramonic]

So lynching a group of 5 with your reads is okay
But lynching a group of 5 with confscum is not.

Got it.

[dramonic]

so half the game is scum.
Plus me for good measure.

Man those are some risky reads you're putting out there.

[dramonic]

Dram, i thought that was already clear
My reads matter more than probabilities to me

I'm just reconfirming it several times.
Still sounds ridiculous.

[dramonic]

See, nobody has to paint you as scummy Wisdom
You're either scum or massively detrimental to the town wincon.

[dramonic]

I'm wondering if you're realizing your hypocrisy or not.

[dramonic]

Cakez is not a scumread currently because i don't think both he and muffin are scum
But his flip still helps sort muffin (and possibly Eddie when he confirms he has the fourth role)
Just like pine and riku probably arent both scum yet both flipping is best

These are all statements based on probability pools.
You are so full of crap lol

[dramonic]

Your reads are fabricated to fit your whims of the moment, you have no conviction whatsoever and the entirety of your play is built around your own personal agenda and not the interest of the town.
Please just roll over and die like you should.

[dramonic]

Don't hammer period.

[dramonic]

But that's not realistically gonna happen

It's not realistic because you're all saying crap like this.

[dramonic]

Making riku confscum doesnt help if scum put them in a group full of town tomorrow
We should lynch scum today

DOT DOT DOT

[dramonic]

This is how Trump got elected.

[dramonic]

lynching g2 is fucking gamethrowing
I've moved the only one of two who can be scum out of g2
We have to pray pine is scum and even then we lose 4 town

swapping Riku out of G2 was gamethrowing.

[dramonic]

Tell me that when lynching g3 doesnt net us at least 2 scum
Until then it was the right move

A wrong move can net good results.
That doesn't make it not a wrong move.

[dramonic]

Your goal is to save your own ass.
Don't try to paint it on any other light.

[dramonic]

cue the violins

[dramonic]

both cakez and Muffin can save themselves. This whole theory is dumb.

[dramonic]

Was gonna ask where the fuck the rest of the players out, but turns out we're just really active and nobody has been afk for more than 24 hours.
Jesus Christ <_<

EDIT: How much do you bet that Wisdom will change his tune if you swap with him?

[dramonic]

Not the worst we've had this game.

[dramonic]

The results are irrelevant to my judgement.

If you randomly stab a dude who just turns out to be a bad person, you still stabbed a dude.
It doesn't magically make the stabbing okay.

EDIT: It's an excellent move regardless tbqh. We either hit Wisdom scum, OR we get rid of the single most antitown player in the game.

[dramonic]

And I die so I get out of here.
win-win

[dramonic]

replace random with "because he looks shifty to you" then

[dramonic]

I've already explained how it's the right move for scum to out itself to get 4 town deaths anyways <_<

[dramonic]

really? then why cakez is open to staying in g3? is he scum? no, he understands that town knowing he is town via flip is important and maybe even better than saving himself
is this hard to understand for you?

Whatever happened to your hard-on for saving town?

[dramonic]

I've rarely seen a player switch stance arbitrarely to fit the moment quite that often within a single day, ngl.

[dramonic]

If I swap out there is gonna be that immediate suspicion of "was he scum saving himself?" for the rest of the game that I'm not gonna be able to shake. I don't think I'm a good enough player to be able to shake that and convince people I'm town.

You don't have to be a good player.
Look at wisdom dodging the rope.

[dramonic]

really? then why cakez is open to staying in g3? is he scum? no, he understands that town knowing he is town via flip is important and maybe even better than saving himself
is this hard to understand for you?

Whatever happened to your hard-on for saving town?

Im only townreading cakez because his claim means hes not scum with muffin
Otherwise ive been scumreading him
Instead of blindly accusing everything i do actually open your eyes

This has nothing to do with what I was commenting on, but sure!

[dramonic]

probably he will conifer with others

Please have my babies

[dramonic]

hahaha
This town
is fucking garbage

[dramonic]

lynch Widom tomorrow if it leave at least 5p alive.

[dramonic]

I actually am thinking muffin is town who is just very wrong about what's optimal for partition mafia. I think he'd be a beast at endgaming a massclaimed normal mafia game. Just not so great here.

I don't blame him so much for thinking he's right and everyone else is wrong just wish he could have maybe chilled it a little.

Also he did swap with pine so we can lynch pine/riku so like even if he's scum he's being nice there.

it took every fibre of my being to not just say "fuck you all" and switch wisdom btw

but, you know, i

figure it will make me look town and it's my only hope

am just a nice guy, obviously

It's not about going "fuck you all"
It's about lynching scum.
You fucked up brah.

OR you're actually scum with him

[dramonic]

vote: group 3

In case it wasn't done yet.

I'm hoping the scumteam is Wisdom, BuJ and Muffin, cuz that would at least explain the amount of bullshit reasoning that happened today.

[dramonic]

be not being scum doesnt cross your mind huh

I'm being nice and assuming you're not this fucking bad.
Take the compliment while it lasts.

[dramonic]

I'm eager to see the defense you pull out of your ass to convince this town when the entirety of G3 flips town.
You won't need much, to be fair.

[dramonic]

vote: group 3

In case it wasn't done yet.

I'm hoping the scumteam is Wisdom, BuJ and Muffin, cuz that would at least explain the amount of bullshit reasoning that happened today.

You realize you and muffin were practically clones of each other for the past 40 pages right? Now you say his reasoning is bs? Where was the disagreement earlier?

His reasoning for not swapping Wisdom.
He didn't not swap until like 5 hours ago.
I didn't actually check the timestamp but SOME TIME WHILE I WAS ASLEEP

Traitorous cur >:(

[dramonic]

Yeah but he's gonna be living scum, not dead scum. <_<

[dramonic]

I'm not entirely convinced.
You might just be playing cowardly.

[dramonic]

Koki nsg was lurky in d1 and got your meta wrong and dramon was parroting muffin

Pretty sure muffin was parroting me and not the other way around, but ymmv.

@Eddie: I wanted to lynch koki, don't get cute with me <_<

[dramonic]

I was parroting me. Or what I thought I'd say if I were town. You just happened to agree with my view on it.

It's what you SHOULD say anyways :p

[dramonic]

The funny part is that when we net 2-3 scum as a result of my plan dram muffin and co will just call me "lucky" and "you just flipped a coin for your reads" and stuff
Ive seen it a million times

So
Now that the game is over.
Don't flip coins.

[dramonic]

You can flavor your gamble how you want, you still gambled and lost '_'

[dramonic]

Not saying you cost us the game, that was a joint effort by the town.