Mini Normal 2002: The Thaw OVERRRRRRRRR

[StefanB]

Mod: VLA for the last hour of today, and I am afraid for tomorrow.

I will not say no more, than that I am happy to reach the side again.

[StefanB]

VOTE: Hoopla,

is there any towniepost from her in the whole game?
I also remember where she pulled the "we should no lynch" as scum. (okay marathon)
Funny moment: Erica is laying a trap (her first few posts), Hoopla steps in.

I also don't like MoI at the moment.

Saude is strange, but how much is from meta and the joke (I found it funny), and how much is the read from this game?

Sorry I don't have stronger reads at the moment.

[StefanB]

Flavour:
Hm, first impresion is he known as a VI?
The thing that makes the most impresion is voting himself(to L-1 I believe have not checked) and claiming VT at the same post.
I understand the intent to autolynch him.
But since you are questioning me, what do you think about Hoopla and MoI?

[StefanB]

Okay I believed the L-1 to freely he had 4 votes on him, when he selvoted and claimed. (You can call me an idiot for believing in stated L-1 without checking)
Aside from the reaction I have not yet a real read on Flavour. I stated reads in my first post today.

[StefanB]

I think the second one was an invitation to vote her, so yep I call that a trap, exspecially if the slot is an experienced player.
You don't think she exspected to get votes after that post?
So a trap that catches eager players.

[StefanB]

There is a bit to much weirds post from Flavour and the Saudadestuff is distracting.

Hello Prism.

Avatars can influence reactions to people nothing new. (And I for one identify player more with there Avatar than their username)

Implosions readlist is good.

@All: You are telling me that Hoopla is always that uninterestead in who to lynch on day 1 even as town?
I am happy to hear that Flavour will be a stronger player later game, hopfully easier to read, too.

[StefanB]

Grey(greatings to your better half by the way):
Flavor is weird. I have no reall read here, besides wanting to scream at too many of his posts, "WTF, nope, nope, nope."
I have gotten from other players the same explanation I got from you re Hoopla, gets better and makes more sense If the game goes on.
His votes (execpt the Hooplavote on this page) seemed to me just there.
I feel better about his last page, that one looks like someone playing the game at last.
To strange to get a read at the moment for me.
I know that doesn't help you that much at the moment, sorry.

[StefanB]

Okay I manage to start wrighting a post, delete it by acident, do it again, and deleting it again.
3rd time is the charm, right?

Hello Hiraki, okay.

About Flavor: This one is tempting but in a kind of WHAT THE HELL, LYNCHING HIM WOULD BE AN IMPROVMENT TO MY SANITY.
Can someone tell me how 365 and 366 make sense together?
How can they be posted from the same person, left alone 3 minutes apart?

Grey: I see the two claims. They don't fit together, you are right.
But I don't take them at facevalue, because Flavor is obvious messing with us, and if he was scum, to do it per acident would be quite an acomplishment.
I give you that there is probably enough to lynch him 10 times, but it just to much, why does Flavor play like he does as scum?

[StefanB]

Second post: This one is getting a few of the not so serious points of my chest:

Flavor Leaf:

Lynching Flavor Leaf guarantees a town loss. Even when I’m scum. Kind of a catch 22.

Erika Furodo:

correction: playing in the normal queue guarantees a town loss.

Can I CC those two? Town has never lost a mini normal that I joined before, so by joining this game I garantied that town will win this.

And implosions:

you seem to have fallen out of the times of the current meta, the kids are calling it a 'neapolitan' these days

was hopfully a joke or he wins the are you reading the posts or just skimming them, award.

[StefanB]

MoI: Some of your stance makes no sense to me.
Lets start with Cult:
You criticise her for scumreading Hoopla, yet your own claimed masonpartner (yes I know you can't choose them) has stated that he tends to do the same.
Now we both know that Grey is not terrible, so why if Hoopla is a difficult to read player in early game, is the read of Cult so terrible that it is nothworthy?

Erica: I get that she scumreads you. I get that you scumread her. (That happens quite a bit) But why is it so unormal to townread players your scumread is scumreading?

I wanted to comment on implosion, but here I see what you mean.

You are very focused on Saudade at the moment, what do you see independent of him?

[StefanB]

But I don't take them at facevalue, because Flavor is obvious messing with us, and if he was scum, to do it per acident would be quite an acomplishment.
I give you that there is probably enough to lynch him 10 times, but it just to much, why does Flavor play like he does as scum?

You do know that he's in this very game admitted to he does those things as both alignments and pretty much everyone who knows him agrees, right?

And I don't know the point you should take a Flavor claim at face value. Maybe when he gets to L-1 with multiple people stating he intends to hammer.

Okay the one which is easier first.
Yes, I am aware that Flavor is obvious messing with us.
No I don't believe any claim. My point here was that this wasn't an exidental screwup claim, but part of him screwing with us.
So perhabs my question should be: Why is Flavor playing like he does? If someone has a scum-motivation good.

[StefanB]

Moi wrote:

Did you go read the game in question? I'm curious.

Not completly no, I had a look. Even after that look I have Saudade as town, I see a lot of difference between the opening here and there.
I keep in mind that he is a strong scumplayer, will check the game if I need it, and get more pinged by the slot.

Erica what about Prism:

I'm pretty sure Gamma is hardtown unless his scumgame improved 10-fold in the past 5/6 months. I don't really have any other reads that I could recall from when I last read the game (up to page 4/5).

I'm heading out for the night but this is going to be great.

makes her your strongest scumread?

Flavor: Is there some history between you and Hoopla? Exspecially bad history?

[StefanB]

I meaned that you seem to have the ability to look town, when you are scum.
That makes someone a strong scumplayer imho.

[StefanB]

I would call it afraid, I would say players have respect and giving you a closer look.
The same if you have a reputition of beeing a very good townplayer, people will be suspicious of you if you have an off-game.

Since he was mentioned, please don't let Mulch replace in next...

[StefanB]

MoI is very consistent in his style of logic and argumentation. He's actually doing a very similar sort of set of assumptions toward Erika and Saudade as he does toward me. He criticizing erika's prism vote on the grounds that based on what erika has said, she should be voting elsewhere. He criticizes Saudade for being skeptical of my vote despite voting in the same direction. It's almost like MoI is assuming that everyone else in the game if they are town is communicating the exact state of their thought process in this game perfectly. And that's just not true of town in general. The problem is that I'm pretty sure this isn't a tell for MoI and I have no idea how to actually read him, and the push even feels vaguely reminiscent of the last game I played with MoI where we were both town and suspected each other. Which is why I can understand why erika wants to just lynch him the day before lylo if he's still alive. And why I don't really understand why he's critical of erika for claiming inability to read him. I just don't know how to interpret any of this with regards to his alignment.

I quote this one in all his beauty. His MoIstance in it is strange to say the last? I think beeing clear and logical are not exactly antitown.
So a player who looks protown is the same as someone who allways looks scummy?

And that interpretation of the case of Erica is interesting to say the last. I would call it misinterpratation.

No to MoIs case on Erica, I found it more compeling than his case on Implosion, but there is that post above.

VOTE: Implosion

[StefanB]

Hello Cult:
I completly missed that question, sorry.

I started it, because I was more sure about Hoopla. This is not unnormal for me.
Since then I have heared that Hooplas play is normal like that.

This are the read you should have goten from my iso(or I should have made more clear):

Implosion his last post make me read scum here.
Flavour: I don't know, he is driving me nuts.
Grey: Townread
Saudade: Townread

I originally had a MoIscumread but his last post remind me more of townMoI even if the meta is older.

About the other Players: I have a townread on Cheetory, Gamma I should look at a few scumgames, but I see him similar to town-gama I know of.

Prism is to new in the game to get a read on in my opinion.

The players not mentioned, I have no concret read, allthough I think MoIs case on Erica is good, so mild scum, but this is not a personal read.

[StefanB]

Lol, everything I said was true, though

Can you be more specific, because that is freaking imposible. What of your posts is true? What should we take as facevalue?
And if you are town, there is scum that stays away from a lynchbaitwaggon (I have seen games were an all-townwaggon on town got to lynch)

[StefanB]

Hm, Hiraki again on day 1? Has that promise ever worked for you?

UNVOTE: Implosion
I seemed to have missed somethink, I am not ignoring so many townreads telling me this is a bad lynch.

I should probably sheep a townread. (Not Grey, btw)

Grey: You have pushing the waggon for Flavor all the way to L-1, why stopping now?

What do you mean with Hohum at the end of the post?
If you say I am better dead, regardless of aligment (Hohum was the vig, who was lynched because he played like an SK) thanks, mostly not true.

Hoopla:

Haven't done the stats for a while, but more than 30% of Mini Normals used to end up with a lynch on an unclaimed player on D1, usually through town laziness and complacency.

Really checking my games, I have seen in all, one self-hammer (as town) and 1 quickhammer, I have never been in a situation where we had to lynch an unclaimed (but okay having won a game as scum, where town let lylo end in a no-lynch nothing is completly imposible) so I am a bit skeptical of the 30%.

And no-one is unlynchable. I have seen MoI vig-shot on day 1 when he was scum before. So if he is scum we can get him.

Another post from Hoopla that is interesting.

People have promised that Flavor gets better, when the game goes on. That he is more readable and actually an asset for town.
Hoopla, Implosion are you saying this is not true, and that he is just a bad player all around?

[StefanB]

Flavor: So you promise that if town, you will eventually get in that game, and be of help?
Can someone tell me if that is true.
Nevertheless the promise is the only think, you can give us?
I know we should look on your waggon.
But if you play to scummy, sometimes scum will be away from your waggon...

About Ericas read: Interesting that Hoopla moved from scum to null in her posts.
Grey has also moved up I think, from null to slight townread
The rest is pretty consistand between the lists. (and that isn't helpful)

Not working at the moment I try tomorrow.

[StefanB]

I think it’s just me, Gamma, and Why, and I didn’t even know Why was in this game.

Why was replaced

@mod Can you please update the playerlist with the replacements, makes it easier for later replacements.

[StefanB]

@Mod: Erica asked to be replaced in post 457.

About the game, MoI asked and if he doesn't want to forget:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=23764

The thing about Erica is that she has a scumteam of MoI,Prism and Hiraki.

Hiraki was pretty scummy from her Point of view, for posting:

Hi all. Egoposting.

Okay, Prism her vote had posted:

I'm pretty sure Gamma is hardtown unless his scumgame improved 10-fold in the past 5/6 months. I don't really have any other reads that I could recall from when I last read the game (up to page 4/5).

I'm heading out for the night but this is going to be great.

Her Flavour read was in her first read list null, in her second he is town:
His post in the meantime.

@Stefan - it’s a Day 1 tactic. Honestly, just best to ignore me Day 1, and look back on me later. Generally reactions and pushes I get I can sift through later in game, and can solve things. I give all my reads and thoughts still, just in obnoxious fashion.

I don’t even try to do it. It just kinda happens.

Lol, everything I said was true, though

Just after my lynch, make sure to lynch on my wagon

The best chance was Grey btw, who switched from null to town but could be wold, which I interprete as a slight townread, when he posted zero in between...

Tempting to save the mod some work.

[StefanB]

Gamma: What meta are you checking for Prism?
I know she feels different than the last time she played, where she was town.

[StefanB]

I am a bit relucant to go for an absent player, but
VOTE: Erica

But Magna:
Your posts:

BTW the above vote count should be a pretty good signal that Flavor is likely Town not scum. If you want a policy lynch go for it but odds that is a scum lynch at the same time are slim.

The large number if Singleton vanity votes. Since Flavor has been the leading wagon there really has only been one even middling counter wagon attempt - me. Scum have made no significant effort to find another lynch. If Flavor was scum and he’s being bussed there would be a stronger effort to get the Bus pushed through for Town cred. Instead we get neither and a weak wagon with a large number of people sitting on solo off votes waiting for momentum to end Flavor.

Willing to bet at least one of the solo votes is scum.

I don't quite follow the logic, why can't scum be on the Flavorlynch? Beside that we have one 2-personwaggon, why is it so different?

[StefanB]

It shows that we have a quite apathic town(I am guilty of that, too), so if I were scum, going with the flow not making noise, would be normal for scum.

So if Flavor is town, scum is happy with the lynch (they are okay with every myslynch) and not all (I am asuming 3 at the moment) are on the waggon.

So your theory is that scum is parking on a weak weagon.

Erica fits good, I don't understand 2 of her scumreads on the time stated.
Cult has been voting the same since some time, when the waggon was bigger.
Prism has joined, place on vote on a player she did scumread, realised she screwed up, left her vote (feels a bit strange)
Greys vote can be analysed by someone else.

I am kind of said to see the masonairy go so early, btw.

[StefanB]

The Flavourwagon: I have Saudade and Cheetory as town.
Hoopla is Hoopla.
Gamma doesn't feel that diferent from his town-meta.

Leaves Implosion or Hoopla the last I can't read.

Who fits the go with the flow the best.

[StefanB]

Okay Cheetory, Hoopla: WTF?
Okay rediculling Flavors theory makes sense, but this is very strange clowning around.
Why are you two implying that you are mafia and whith each other?
I know Hoopla is imposible to read blabla, will be nk blabla, you can't get her if she is scum.

Anyone really has anythink that this is town-Hoopla?

[StefanB]

Grey how long until you can tell us what you have that makes Hoopla town?
You had I am allways scumread, than bling you see her as town, for reasons that you can explain in a week.
Than the 80% post...
Help please...

[StefanB]

Grey: How does your question have anythink to do with it?
I asked you to help me read Hoopla. I know you scumread me, but could you still be some kind of polite?
A simple no I will not help you would have been enough.

Okay I am tyred of trying to get in the game.

VOTE: Hoopla

You can all tell me that I am a bad player, can't read her, blabla, but nope your are all so great in reading her.
I have played one game with her (a marathon shit meta I know), but:

Oh yeah, I forgot to tell everyone.

I had a dream (like, a sleep dream -- this isn't the start of an inspirational speech) that we decided to no-lynch as performance art and in a show of solidarity scum decided to no-kill. I can't decide if it's pleasant or alarming that this game has already pierced my subconscious so effectively.

This isn't really related to anything, just wanted to distract from the fact I haven't started scumhunting yet wanted to share

reminded me strongly about that one.

You shure lets lynch semi-random because town sucks is town.
Lets lynch someone semi-expendable.

and 453 is still unbelivable, town lynched without a claim because the day goes out in 30% of mini-normals?
I have checked a few (okay 200 hundreds games) for how bad town does. Mostly it was VT lynched, but mafia or Sk-lynches outnumber town-nonvanilla 2:1. I would ask Hoopla to link to anythink that gives that thought even an ounce of creditability.

What I didn't find in her ISO anythink that looks like scumhunting, or helping out that isn't in her I am willing to lynch half a dozen player in 546?

I am done listening at the moment.

[StefanB]

Grey do me one favour and learn my name, btw, this is our third game together.

Yepp I am guilty about feeling bad to play like I play here. Apologising to much is a problem for me when I am feeling I am not doing well.
Congratulation you just analyse my personality and called it not town.

About Flavor: Yepp, I am not so confortable lynching a WTF-read, I also don't like plays like Flavors.
You can call this fencesitting, but most players were scum/town-whatever lets just lynch.

And you were on the waggon, and left it, while your read didn't chance, and unvoted the moment that got to L-1.
Questioning you at the moment would be normal, if anythink I should have pushed harder.

Anythink else that is normal that you want to call me scum for?

[StefanB]

Okay, I should not have called you rude, but I think the anger could have actually helped me get in the game.

About Hoopla, I had a scumread here, since I arrived.
I listened to nearly everyone that she was her normal self and I can't read here.
A lot of players told me that I can't read Hoopla and so on.
The scumread stayed.
The first post was weak, I give that to you, I listened to you and MoI and some others who told me that I can't read her.
And today I decieded that I was done listening, tread Hoopla like any other player, look again at her ISO and do whatever I want.

The second post you really don't see that this is I am scumreading her, tell my why this is town?
Basicly everyone is saying ignore Hoopla for today, we don't care if she is scum.
And normal players can't read her.

The difference to FL is that here I had only a scumread when I go straigh by facts. Aka selfvoting, early claiming, giving two different claims. If that all hasn't happened in the 24 hours in the game and deliberatly done (I assume) without benefit to either aligment with people stating this is completly normal for both town and scumgame of Flavor, I would have loved the waggon.

So I fealed ambivalent about Flavor. So joining the waggon would have meaned to go by that is scummy, so you vote because you give up on understanding this.

In my opinion this is exactly the oposite situation as Hoopla.

And yeah useful on later days is not somethink I do pretty well. If a player is ussful as town, he is also ussful as scum. The only way I am lystening to that kind of argument is when we are talking about a very bad VI.

[StefanB]

Okay, $20 bet, MOI, Flavor Leaf, StefanB. That's my money, that's where it's at.

Please do consider alternatives. Okay your flavorread is indepent of me beeing scum.

Yeah that stefan case is actually pretty good. I think 383 is the thing I was initially townreading him for, mostly off tone. But looking at it more closely it's the kind of thing that can be genuine from

a player

who has no idea how to react to

Flavor.

I bolded what has really happened. I have said everythink I can say to my defence until I am at L-1. Mostly the people are sheeping Grey at the moment. I would probably considering doing this myself if the case sounds belivable. I don't think it does, read my Posts 582 and 598 at last. You can still call he scum caught for the wrong reason, but please don't say the case has merrit.

[StefanB]

Cheetory:

Gamma
============
implosion, COA
============
GI
============
Erika, Stefan, Hoopla, Saudade, Hiraki
============
Prism
============
MOI, Flavor

Cult:

I'm gut scumreading Hoopla but apparently there's meta there that I don't know, waiting to hear from MoI on that. I prefer MoI as a wagon anyways.

Erica:

And then Stefan and Hoopla are like my only null reads

Flavour:

There is 100% scum in Hoopla, Cheetory, Implosion. I’m leaning more on the former two, as I see Implosion as a mislynchable player.

Gamma:

If I had to pick a direction to go besides Erika, Hoopla is probably what I'd pick, their posting kinda feels empty to me.

Hiraki votes Hoopla

Implosion:

543 from Hoopla feels really, really ridiculously pockety. I don't like any of her posts on the last page really. If a wagon pops up on her I'll join it, although I'd still rather lynch flavor if we can swing it especially since he's already claimed.

MoI:

Cult- Hoopla is a very skilled player and all her early game posts are well within her range as both Town or scum. So scum reading that is a big miss in my book.

Saudade:
After a townread on Hoopla was stated by Flavor:

Well that's a read I completely cant relate with

Grey:

You get a free pass to day 2, but you know that comes with a "your neck is on the chopping block very quickly if you don't produce" in the rider clause.

Prism hasn't mentioned Hoopla once.

Okay the whole freaking game is not townreading her (execpt perhabs Prism, and I give you that the last 3 quotes aren't that strong, but okay.

[StefanB]

Btw: I would prefer to not only having only sheepers on the waggon easier.
If you want to sheep Grey this is the wrong waggon to do so.
Have a good reason if you are on it would be good for you.

I also don't think that Greys case is good enough to sheep here. It is so that I believe he believes it, so he is not scum for it.
But at the moment players are sheeping Greys personality not his case.
Since I want to have fun with it and get somethink out of it, can those voting me state please why they believe I am scum, so we can find the scum on the weagon easier, thanks.

[StefanB]

Btw my prediction for today is actually an Implosion-lynch.

[StefanB]

We have 3 votes that come without any reason or just sheeping Grey.
Now assume I am town, anyone wants to talk about, who of Cheetory, Magna or Implosion is scum?

[StefanB]

Or do you think that Greys case was so good that 2 townies just jump and say jepp?

Implosion-analysis from his last post starting:

But yeah I'm happy to go in the stefan direction now. I'd still be fine with hoopla. Flavor's reaction to the stefan case throws me for a little bit of a loop. I don't think he'd do that if stefan is scum with him, but I also don't think he'd go out of his way to defend stefan-town if he's scum. I especially don't think he makes that post if they're both scum, but that's sort of conjecture about his meta and I'm sure he'll say that he would.

I am pushing Hoopla at the moment, there is my case. Interesting, that he is fine with voting me, but at the same time saying my case has merrit.
The interesting thing is that he states her clear that no matter what, Flavor is town.

I'll look at the stephen stuff more closely tonight. But at a glance meh.

Keely townread becomes slightly stronger in past couple pages.

Yeah that stefan case is actually pretty good. I think 383 is the thing I was initially townreading him for, mostly off tone. But looking at it more closely it's the kind of thing that can be genuine from scum who has no idea how to react to the flavor wagon.

I feel like there might have been more. But yeah I'm rereading his stuff and his opening post feels bleh and his initial nullread on flavor is bleh and there's not a whole lot there.

Is an interesting disonance, this is actialy the reason I exspect Implosion to be the lynch.

Okay I am not going to his whole ISO, I like that he gives reads and has some very strong ones.

But why does he aggree with Hooplas point about "Let's lynch semi-random on day 1, because town can't get a scum lynched and has a high chance to lynch without a claim."

If I look further back it looks better, I have to say and MoI is not easy to find as scum, I assume that same of Cheet.

[StefanB]

Cheet I am working on it, want to be next?

[StefanB]

PS Since you are there want to give me a case, I could use to practice to destroy it.

[StefanB]

Nope I wanted somethink more personal to know if you are town, or just sheeping scum.
So you just sheeped without a case and without a posible thought?
Man you must trust Grey, and yourself so little...
I am just preparing for somethink that I think could posible happen.

[StefanB]

At the moment I am voting Hoopla, I have made the strongest case here, so this is strange.
Beeing vote after I made the first post I really liked this game, and then beeing agreed by the voter is interesting.

Cheet: I agree that Grey seems town, I agree that I, too would like to have stronger reads. I am very interested if Greys push alone for a case that I consider not very strong, gives him the votes he need.

[StefanB]

MoI: This is difficult, but its either him or Cheet to analyse that.
(Having him and Grey on the waggon makes the situation actually more weird)

First of, the fact that MoI doesn't seem to remember games where he dies day 1 is funny.

And wasn't there a scumtell, that 3rd person on the waggon is scum?

His sheeping is somethink that I am actually can see.

But MoI how often do you actually sheep as town? I know you and Grey did claim "massons" at the beginning. (I don't think anyone believed that masonclaim, it had not enough wolfpower behind it)

(Okay the fact that after MoI votes me the fact that Implosion the guy he just unvotes is the next vote is funny)

My problem is MoIs poinds make sense, I often want to nod and just say MoI is town.

Why has the waggon so townielocking people on it, which such weak reasons.
I want to either say: yes, I screwed up or go after the scum on it, with rightous vengeance...
So I probably have to wait what happens to the waggon next.

[StefanB]

Cheet: Actually forget it, I have read the game, reread his ISO a few times, and know that my heart wouldn't be in it.
I don't see him as scum.
I still think his sheep here is not the best move.
If you want to lynch me, have your own reason, will make the game easier, but okay I can perhaps live with your sheep.

[StefanB]

Cheet: Hm, good question.
I am at the moment just a bit frusted why the waggon locks so damm town.
You have a waggon on town, with a not great case and people just following and there should be scum here.
I hopped I would find that bullet that I can use to get them.

[StefanB]

I should perhaps waited until the waggon grew larger and than try to find scum on it.
Perhaps the would have been easier.

[StefanB]

Grey wrote:

My observation is that scum tend to find other scum scummy, and mucking up a fakeclaim is as scummy as it gets besides.

My theory is that everythink before the VT claim was joking around. The two claim were clearly deliberate, an exident here would mean a very incompetent player, that is nearly imposible. Klick of The Dresden Files mafia perhaps.

Just practising for postwaggon, working together with Grey.

[StefanB]

For reference you can ignore the above. It's only there because I'll make an explanation later, and people will say "GreyICE you're making shit up, there's no way you could have known any of that".

Well you can say that anyway, but w/e

Lets make a deal, can I see your notes, when we meet in DT, or post game? I will have somethink to trade, (no great inside, but I hope somethink worth a chuckle)

[StefanB]

this is also one of those times that it would be great if stefan could be scum and flavor could be town so i can get to be incredibly indignant at the high and mighty attitude postgame.
i guess i at least get to do that postgame with the read on me if flavor is town.

I think now you have got a pretty good chance with the flavor read.
I am very happy that we didn't lynch him.
Stefan is scum needs a different game.

[StefanB]

I hope we get some cultpost soon and a replacement for Erica.

[StefanB]

And some content post from Saudade and a bit more from Prism.

[StefanB]

You know Flavor, you keep pushing that bandwagon. "Suboptimally". A way to buddy me, while discrediting me. My reads are excellent, and I have a long history of pushing wagons through to the end.

What you have done here, Flavor, is made it obvious to more people than me what your alignment is when Stefan flips scum. That's your actual mistake. See, I know you're scumbuddies, but you can just shoot me - I'm used to it, I get shot N1 or N2 as often as Magna does. But here, you've tied yourself to Stefan in an overwhelmingly obvious way, by trying to lead the counterwagon to save him (while insisting that the counterwagon doesn't exist!). That was "suboptimal".

Two thinks.
1. I am not scum, bad luck for you.
2. What if Hoopla is really scum?

Did you stopp to think about one of them, and what that would mean for your read?

[StefanB]

That shouldn't be the question for you. The question should be what if you are wrong?
What would that mean for your read on Flavor?
Okay that info is just interesting for me.

[StefanB]

If we have a lye awasome.
But I will try to find out what Grey is refering, too, tomorrow, good night.

[StefanB]

Grey: Nope not so fast, you first explain the smoking gun you seem to have on Flavor.
I have read it again, awake and still don't understand what the lie was.
As some who was burned by not following this one through but also seen this two often used between two townies (sometimes guilty of it myself) I want to understand it.
To make it clear the vote is fine.

[StefanB]

I didn't mean your vote on Flavor was good, I meaned your vote on Cult, sorry for the confusion.
And yeah I hoped you had a more specific lie, for me the reason got lost a bit between the shouting.

[StefanB]

Hoopla since I made that case on her.

[StefanB]

I devoleped the read based on her ISO.
It is a read what is there and what isn't.
I isn't correct that I never asked any question re Hoopla

is there any towniepost from her in the whole game?

You are right, that I could have asked questions directly to her.
Okay in this special case that looks utteratly redicules, but okay, she could have got this from my post, with a bit work.

Hoopla, can you point me to any scumhunting you have done this game?
Hoopla you posted that towns suck and we should lynch semi-random on day 1. Why?
Can you give us any proof that town tends to lynch someone without a claim regulary because that sounds totally ridiculous.
Can you give me any reason that you posted this that isn't antitown?

Okay those sound utterly redicolous even for me.

Hoopla, have you got any good reads this game, that are strong?
Any real scumread?
You stated that you are okay with anyone execpt a small group, do you really think that will make the game easier, going into the later days?

Yeah, perhaps those are better.
On the other hand, those questions are kind of obvious.
If you have a case you are not allways asking questions, you make it, and hope people react.

[StefanB]

VOTE: Cult
Na it's more fun to have me here to mess with Grey.

But seriously, Hoopla does seem to believe what she writes, I disagree strongly.
But that got some answers: Point for Grey.
On the other hand Cult is a good waggon, even if I can't find any good questions here.

[StefanB]

And I think MoI is one of the few players who could survive a Lol-hammer without trouble.
If you are town don't hammer, scum feal free to do so...

[StefanB]

Grey: You suck at math.

[StefanB]

Fine, -5% chance. There you go, happy now?

I predict we will have a lot of fun together, for a lot of days...

[StefanB]

100% agreement with Grey.
At last we could prove Hoopla wrong on that for this game.

[StefanB]

Like I used to advocate "hammer without claim!" back when site meta was to be held hostage to every two-bit scumbag that claim stalled - back when it was possible for people to just claim stall until the wagon fell apart, then say "now I don't have to claim!"

Today it seems like the basics like "maybe if we hammer a friendly neighbor we are in fact morons" need to be remembered.

Also I'm sad to find myself agreeing with Hoopla more than I'd like to.

I think there is a middleground. If someone is really stalling, okay we can talk about a hammer.
We have 5 1/2 days to deadline, a lol-hammer ist just rude.

[StefanB]

Prism is town, to state the obvious.
This posts feel town, and she is making good points.
Also completly consistant with her townmeta from Mini Normal 1988, where she did the same think.
P-edit: Was that a hammer?

If not give me an hour re GreyIce I want to get something out.

[StefanB]

I didn't exspect MoI to hammer, at the moment. Him I exspected exspecially to think about Greys posts.
It wasn't a pre-edit, that the post was complet, and posted.
I was wrighting about Grey, wanted to look somethink up, and saw MoIs post, deleted what I wrote about Grey, since it was half-ready and posted in the hope I misremembered where the votes stand, and I had time.
You are right I could have unvoted and didn't take the risk that the hammer happened while I was wrighting into enough account.

[StefanB]

This is now clearer, than it was before:

But Grey has the following scumreads before the cult-compromis:
Me and Flavor. (perhaps MoI)
So his not sheeping MoI to his own scumread because he believes MoI is scum, who wants to buss his buddy instead of lynching outside of it...
And that is a reason not to switch?
The attack on Prism doesn't make sense, if he does believe in his scumread, now he has 5 scum.
So either his 100%-scumread isn't serious, or him beeing on the cult-waggon is not.

Why do you hammer here, MoI?

[StefanB]

I totally understand what you wrote there.
I know that Cults post screams VT or scum.
My post was Greys post was a red flag and in your stead I would be much less willing to let this go into night, than you are.
But okay I am more relucant with hammers than most other people.

[StefanB]

read point instead of post.

[StefanB]

That come off quite creepy, but one good rule is if you are at L-1, do somethink do not go VLA.
No one wants to wait 2 days.
Lurkers are allways a lynch that should be in the bag of the mind.

In other news, hello new person, who just replace in (the mod mentioned it)
New person and Grey are the 2 reasons that I would have personally wait with the lynch.

[StefanB]

of topic question for Hoopla:
Since you have so much data.
A situation that has recently happened in another game.
3-personlylo ending in a no-lynch? Please tell me that is super-rare at last.

[StefanB]

I don't agree with this.

The lynch or somethink else?
Please try to be less cryptic.

[StefanB]

As long as it is still open hello Piplup.

[StefanB]

There is.
The problem is if Grey is scum, the chance gets smaller.

[StefanB]

Cheet: His post on page 33/34 do make it still to early?

[StefanB]

Hello Piplup.
Brandnew to mafiascum?

[StefanB]

Just in case I am wrong UNVOTE: Cult

[StefanB]

Why do you think Cult is town?

[StefanB]

pagecount is one way of determining how far into a game we are.
what day we're on is another.

Faceplam. Read the posts of Grey, read the replies from MoI and Prism (mine can hurt also) and say it is only paranoia.

[StefanB]

Btw: Happy Birthday, or is the cake a lye?

[StefanB]

The end of day VC. I kind of don't understand the new think so it is old-fashioned.
StefanB(1) ~ implosion(53)
implosion(2) ~ Hiraki(26), Prism(17)
Prism(1) ~ Erika Furudo(50)
Flavor Leaf(2) ~ Saudade(75),

CultofAthena

CultofAthena

(lynch): GreyIce, Gamma Emerald, Hoopla,

Cheetory6

, StefanB, Flavor Leaf, MoI

Copied from the last modvotecount, people with numbers behind stayed on the same lynchvote.
I found it funny, that the whole Hooplawaggon switched to Cult, (execpt Cult of course)
Cults ISO didn't give me much, except 2 players, who I found unlikly to be her partners (Hoopla and MoI).
The moment Hoopla and Flavor had the same number of votes Cult switched to Hoopla.
Will wait if someone found more.

P-Edit: Since their was only one NK I assume there are only wolves (The game is also called werewolf)

[StefanB]

VOTE: Piplup,

Ericas reads seemed very strange.

You had scum in Flavor Leef/Stefan before (only read on day 1) you have scum in Flavor Leef/Stefan now.

Interesting reaction to the votes. Implying everyone who votes him is bad.
That is clasic scumdefence.

Btw: I don't want a Grey-MoI one on one. MoI I have as one of the slots that is most likly town from the interaction between him and Cult and the hammer,
and the theory that Grey did revive a dead waggon on his lurking scumbuddy and drove it to lynch is even for someone who likes to buss like Grey farfetched.

[StefanB]

To specify:

Piplup: What did the fact that Cult flipped scum tell you?
Did it influence your reads?

[StefanB]

I'm scum because I have experience outside of this site?

Why do you view me as a strong player?

Placeholder vote?

Wow. Are you supposed to be good at this game?

Apparently, on this site you should be somewhat silent, crack a few jokes, not answer questions, use some buzzwords, and then be town read.

Good job. Let me know when you want to actually engage or lynch me. I seriously think some of you are worse players than this mod is a mod.

Glad we can have a dialogue to help solve the game.

Super helpful cakeperson.

Okay that was more misinterpret and implies Hoopla is bad.
The Hooplatownread comes more from voting scum early and beeing atacked from flipped scum, btw.

About Ericas Reads:

eeeeeeeeh ya know what fuck it I'm just going to heavily adovcate for lynching MoI if he is still alive the day before LyLo and ignore the slot till I can actually get in a headspace to gamesolve.
{Gamma, Saudade, Implosion, Cheetory, CoA}
{Stefan, GreyICE, Flavor Leaf} - with the caveot that I am literally 100% ok with Flavor Leaf dieing because Boon, Gamma, and Saudade literally make me want to replace out and Boon's playstyle is like, always terrible}
{Hiraki}
{Hoopla, Prism, MoI}

When Prism and Hiraki had one post at that time (for me not alligment-indicative) the scumread was interesting.
To note also where the flipped scum is.
MoI pointed out earlier that the replace out because of townreads (Gamma and Saudade) is not really making sense.

About my questions:

That I was wrong at speed of the wagon meaning anything. However, it doesn't change the fact that scum (likely) bussed, and I think it's in the three that I listed because they saw that she was the inevitable lynch. The fact that I was scumreading Flavor Leaf and StefanB prior is why I separated them out from MagnaofIllusion as more likely scum.

Does not really tell anyone what you thought about the scumflip.

[StefanB]

Saud: Piplup is Ericas replacement.

@Mod: Can you please update the playerlist, again and the End of Day VC would be nice.

[StefanB]

MoI: When will you be on the computer again? Because I have look at both ISOs and I don't see anythink that can't be partners, exspecially if they have daytalk. (that is allways posible)

Grey: Can you be more clear, what does ping you about MoI? That he forgot me, in his analysis yesterday, and the really strange Erica and Cult are not partnersread or more?

[StefanB]

Grey: I have said there is nothink here that disproves that they are scum.
If your theory is correct, my vote isn't in a bad place.
Why should I do MoIs work for him?
I am willing to wait a few hours to see him try, because MoI and because that isn't just for me, its for the whole group.
My posting their interaction helps how exactly?

[StefanB]

Grey I have gone trough it.
I can make a wall, whit all the posts were they somehow reacted to each other.
They did but nothink out of the ordinary.
VOTE: MoI

I am interestead in the reasons why they can't be scum together. Searching the ISO three times and it gives me not on bit, that makes me pause.

[StefanB]

MoI: First reaction is calling it bullshit. One thought of theory is react to your scumpartner like every other player.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=17289
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=18294

To older games where the scumteams reacted to each other. (First is imaginality/andrew94)
Second MoI,Coventry,StefanB

How was that so different.
Or:
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=23705
Here GreyIce and CuriousKarmadog
and Klick and CKD (Yes game was bastard)

have tons of interaction.
(Okay the last one is a good example how not to play as scum)

Or extrem example Mulch-Firebringer in the newly finished team-mafia, who spammed together a few pages on the beginning of the game.

Not exactly your example, but I don't those cases are completly different.
Those post didn't really establish a link nobody blinked an eye on them, so that is strange for me.

[StefanB]

Piplup:
The townread on Cult could be a bad read, but together with strange scumreads and having 3 players discripped as toxic but townreading two of them but wanting to lynch the third because toxic, makes those reads strange.
About your reads, I am not sure if you were aware of the fact that Cult was lynched at the moment of your replacement, so I don't know how genuie your reaction is.

About Saudade he was inactive when you replace in, the mod has not updated the OP, so that can happen that he missed it. Asking who the slot is, is a normal reaction.

Btw: What do you think as directly affected player about MoI/Grey?

[StefanB]

MoI: Interesting that you choose that example.
The games were not really random, the first was my second game on site, the rest were games that should have been easy for you.
One you played and were part of the scumteam, one were you were the mod.
All games have one thing in common, I was a player in them.
So it was not much work to pick them.

[StefanB]

unofical VC per hand because I don't know the program yet.

Flavor Leaf(2): Piplup, Saudade
Piplup(2): Hoopla, Implosion
Saudade(2): Gamma Emerald, Flavor Leaf
MagnaofIllusion(2): GreyIce, StefanB
GreyIce(1): MagnaofIllusion

not voting: Prism, Hiraki

with 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch

[StefanB]

Flavor: You just make my head hurt.
MoI, too for the matter.
I wanted to post, WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THE NORMAL MOI.

In other news: Piplup has posted 1 in Stefan, Flavor and MoI.
That are good odds, but why do you think so, Piplup?
Resons for your read?

I think Saudade is reacting normal for a townplayer, who believes he has caught scum on day 1.
And there are some connections between you and Cult.
Hoopla has one, I have another, in both cases we had 2 waggons on the same strengh, in both cases she ignored the Flavorwaggon and reacted to the other waggon.

I think this is enough to see the conection and Saudade could have been right all along.

VOTE: Flavor

[StefanB]

MoI: That response made more sense.
I still think that the interaction between Cult and Erica that you posted is null, but you seem to believe it wasn't.

Hiraki is VLA until monday, we will see some phoneposting until then.
I would like to hear more from Prism, too

[StefanB]

I think I know which player he is claiming to have an Ino on, but before I trust that, I want to have it out what the ino is. An INO as VT is not worth much.

[StefanB]

I think I know which player he is claiming to have an Ino on, but before I trust that, I want to have it out what the ino is. An INO as VT is not worth much.

If I had an Inno, I wouldn’t be claiming VT. I claimed VT yesterday to backtrack my PR claim so I wouldn’t get roleblocked/killed by scum.

But this is blatant rolefishing.

Nope, not when someone claims VT and an INO on the same page. Then its just addresing the elefant in the room.

[StefanB]

Here is a post how Cult tread the different slots, I have not mentioned a post were I think she meantioned Gamma, but was not sure:

Flavor Leaf

178: Mentioned that Saud scumread him, in a post discrediting Saud
250 commented on Sauds waggon but didn't mention his
748: votes Hoopla as leading weagon, while ignoring his waggon
812 at L-1 votes him

Saudade
178 called into question what he said in 176
185: Asked Gamma about his thoughts on Saud
250 called his waggon scumdriven, while not mentioning Flavors waggon
256: Questioning her scumreads all voting the same waggon(GL I think Gamma, MoI and Hoopla)

WhtMafiaPrism
No mention

FlooshHiraki
no mention

GreyIce
178 asked Erica about the read of him
247: Questioning Ericas read on him again

MagnaOfIllusion:
44 Didn't like his vote on Erica and voted
120: Again dislikes his vote, asked the player she voted about Hoopla
179 waited on his meta towards Hoopla, while wanting to lynch him
245: questioned a player(me) why he voted Hoopla and not MoI also a point about Hoopla and scumreading
256 weird mention with Hoopla and GL
445: critised him here

Gamma Emerald
123: Called his reaction to Saudade's vote genuine
126 called his reaction to the (fake) hammer subdued
185 asked him about his Saudederead
812 last post critized his vote

implosion
no mention

Hoopla
44 Critizised her reaction in 41
120: Asked another player (MoI) about Hoopla
179 called her a gut scumread
245: Wanted a MoI vote instead of a Hooplavote and interacted with MoI about her
256 weird mention of her, MoI and GL(Gamma?)
748: voted her, because leading waggon, Flavor had to same number of votes

StefanB
245: questioned(188) why vote Hoopla and not MoI
447 asked me about reads and to answer 245 again

Erika Furudo Piplup:
44 Defend against vote of MoI
178 asked about her GreyIceread
179: Softquestioning
247: Questioning her about GreyIce and MoI reads

Interactions of the slot I found no real interactions from Cult.
Flavors interaction with Cult:
253: Comments on the Saudadewaggon that came up in her comment, only mention of Cult before the vote

Implosion on Cult:
never mentioned this slot on day 1

Hiraki on Cult:
Never mentioned Cult

Prism on Cult
First vote of the game, later thought she was town

[StefanB]

I leave everone to their own thoughts, re what can be/can't be a partner of Cult.
My own reaction:

Flavor makes great sense as partner, no direct mention while Flavor was a real point of discusion yesterday, huge read flag.

Also Implosion, quite active yesterday, no interaction from either side.

Hiraki was also has no interaction is a bit more understandable since when he was in the game, Cult wasn't.

Prism not a partner

So this is why I voted Flavor today.

[StefanB]

Perhaps start in reverse?
The last page is pretty normal.

[StefanB]

Can we please get a VC, or the settings we need for day 2 to make one ourself?

[StefanB]

Stefan - why shouldn’t I see 1083 as scum thinking? A clear on a VT is an absolute win for Town when PRs exist.

Because even if I am often unclear it wasn't that unclear. I was not talking about a clear on a VT, I was talking about a clear

by

a VT, ak. Flavor has claimed VT and so I am doubting his clear.

1270 is a strange post. It implies Flavor town in very strong words. The Implosionscumread must be strong for her not to vote Saudade here, but I am not sure what MoI is getting at.

Gamma: It was not in deep, but what where the interaction and where is somethink should be helpful. It was meaned as a starting point. The first post is only the facts, my own interpretation is one post below. I found it more interesting, which whom Cult didn't really interact.

[StefanB]

While I am at it, Hiraki why do you agree with the one-on-one between MoI and Grey or the post where MoI stated it?

[StefanB]

In post 1021, MagnaofIllusion wrote:

Yes of course. But I think you know I would say that even if I was scum so hardly worth even asking, right?

You have made your stance clear Grey. I’m happy to make this 1v1 today even if I lose.

I agree with this.

From your catchup, I found it strange. (not quite right format for the quote but readable)

[StefanB]

Unoffical VC:

Flavor Leaf(5 L-1)

: Piplup, Saudade, GreyIce, StefanB, MagneofIllusion

Piplup(2 L-4)

: Hoopla, Implosion

Implosion(1 L-5)

: Prism

StefanB (1 L-5)

: FlavorLeaf

not voting: Hiraki, Gamma Emmerald (not in order)
with 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch

[StefanB]

Yepp, Flavor is at L-1.
The VC was done per hand. Sorry I misstyped your name Magna.

Good news about the mod the Listmod is very aware of the mod not beeing active.

[StefanB]

I hate fakeclaiming town, I would probably lynched you after the claim no matter what.
That would have been a more powerful cop.
Yeah I did not believe your: I have in ino (I thought you were facking an Ino on Grey)
Even if you are town I am happy you are dead.
Your reads: Last words are scum in Stefan, Saudade and Hiraki, right? You don't scumread Piplup anymore?

Now we wait a few days until the mod comes back to give us the result.

P-Edit: Flavor: We will see if MoI stays alive.

[StefanB]

VC day 1:
StefanB(1) ~ implosion(53)
implosion(2) ~ Hiraki(26), Prism(17)
Prism(1) ~ Erika Furudo(50)

Flavor Leaf

(2) ~ Saudade(75),

CultofAthena

CultofAthena(lynch)

: GreyIce, Gamma Emerald,

Hoopla

,

Cheetory6

, StefanB,

Flavor Leaf

, MoI

VC day 2:

Flavor Leaf

(6-LYNCHED) - Piplup, Saudade, GreyICE, StefanB, MagnaofIllusion,

Flavor Leaf

Piplup (2) -

Hoopla

, implosion
implosion (1) - Prism

Not voting (2) -Hiraki, Gamma Emerald

Hiraki, Implosion and Prism haven't been on the lynchwaggon all game. Piplup and Saudade were of the scumlynch but on the townlynch, but both with very believable reasons.

VOTE: Implosion
I had a scumread here some time ago. Since that is my only scumread I am sure about, I will vote here.

[StefanB]

So I am sure from Sauds Post that MoIs result is correct.
I feel faking that completly is high-risk/low-reward play.
Would MoI have a reason to target Saud as scum-tracker?
I am a bit suprised that he was blocked night 1 and night 2 scum let him track without a care in the world, when his role was out in the open.

[StefanB]

Lets bite, what do you find so fishy about:
1. MoI is a tracker.
2. I don't think there is scum-motivation to track Saudade.
3. Scum neither killing nor roleblocking a claimed tracker is odd, if they did it the night before when he was unclaimed.

And I don't think anyone ecept Hiraki really exspecteded Flavor to flipp town.
How did you know Hiraki?

[StefanB]

Magna: You have a 50%-ino, is that really a good vote?
What happened to your Implosionscumread, now that he got waggoned?

[StefanB]

The 50% comes from he was making the nightkill, scum has a blocker and a ninja, seems a bit much for me.
So my reason was he can't be the scum who made the kill, 2 scum, only one posible, only 50% chance.
It also comes from a game where we had that discusion recently, and I lynched someone which that ratio. (hello Hiraki)

About Implosion reason explained, but you know the old saying vote town, FOS scum. I am searching for his partner also, if he is scum and no strong scumreads screams stronger scumplayer, you know where this can make someone paranoid.
But now there is a bit more place on the Implosionwaggon.

[StefanB]

implosion, Hiraki, Prism, Piplup (with an outside chance of Saud) those were the players Hoopla did suspect.
Grey/MoI not nightkilled speaks for scum hopping that will get a myslynch down the rode. (Or one of them is scum)

MoI: Preedit: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=75418
50 % was we have to scum. One did the nightkill, one didn't. Can't be the one who made the kill. So can't be the one who did the kill. So I called it a 50%-ino.
Also a ninja and a roleblocker for just a tracker that is a bit much.
Somethink still unclear?

[StefanB]

I don’t see the game’s relevance as a parallel situation but that point I certainly can put aside. I do however think you conclusion makes not much sense. Him not making the kill (or being a Ninja) says nothing about him being 50% clear.

The parallel situation was 2 scum alive, one player was JK(couldn't have done the NK), you don't see the similarity?
50% is perhaps a bit high. We search for scum a + scum b, when we define scum a the one that made the kill, your went nowhere can only be scum b. I don't really belive in the ninja, btw.

And the “ninja and roleblocker is a bit much for a tracker” bit is why I think you are fishing. Hypothetical Roleblocker would be a counter for all Town roles not just Tracker. You are putting too much effort in that I feel might be aimed at trying to see if you could get other Town PRs to give away their location.

That comes of as very interesting theory aimed at pretty much nothing. Would any townpowerrole really be dumb enough to claim for that? Nope, no player with half a brain would do it. In my opinion if there is a powerrole outed, which I feel could happen, it won't be my fault. You are currently playing at a scumteam whit a high Ninja and roleblocker, thats for a mini Normal quite some power. I am putting afford in makes what MoI says sense, or is he scum?

[quote="In post 1419, MagnaofIllusion"Heck I think the Hoopla kill was 100% PR hunting at this stage. Her laid back not driving play is what I would expect scum to see as a PR signal.[/quote]

Scum does allways kill those who they think are the most dangerous for them. I don't doubt that could be a PR played a role, but when you have a tracker, it can't be the only reason.
Whit Cheets dead there are paterns there. (experienced + good players)
But it could also mean she was a danger to scum, so they wanted to silence her.
I think ignoring her is not a good protown thing.

[StefanB]

I am also voting Implosion because I am townreading Prism (stronger) and Hiraki, together with Gamma and Saudade those 4 are the four I am most sure are town.

[StefanB]

Anyone else here that knows much about Mini Normal setupdisign? Both people who are somewhat experts just requested replacement.
(I would have asked against a weak town, which I am currently thinking about because of reason, what makes more sense to give the scum as powerrole roleblocker or tracker?)

In other news about what Prism said. If both Grey and MoI are town, they are kept around because mislynch ahoy.
What speaks against that is the fact that both kills were pro-Grey (Cheet sheeped him, Hoopla was talked about before).
If MoI is town, then his reads and his observationskills suck since the hammer. If Grey is town, he hasn't voted scum since the hammer.
I disagree that Hoopla was still a good mislynchtarget, after day 1. Would have been very hard to lynch her.

[StefanB]

To determine if MoI is scum or town.

[StefanB]

In a universe were it helps him?
The role was obvious fake and MoI could see that.
I mean the reason for scum to claim tracker and cost to endgame, it exist.

Implosions replace out. Null, he wasn't lurking before, and seem to have much to do elsewhere on the site.
So I respect that tells me nothink about his aligment.
What should it tell me?

[StefanB]

MoI is not a rolecop, I am sure of that.
Whit coasting I am not talking about not scumhunting, etc (we are talking about MoI here, that would raise a lot of read flags) I am only talking about having a easy road to endgame.
I think afraid of watcher (MoIs theory) is more likly than scum screwed up.

Yes I know Saudade was perhaps not the most logical choice for a scum-tracker and we can assume MoI to make logical choice. Its just I can not shake up the feeling that somethink is off with MoI.

Just a question of curiosity, if it is not me and not Implosion who would be your third choice for scum today?

[StefanB]

Hello the CheekyTeeky this time for real.

[StefanB]

How do you get the I have any interested in a Saudade lynch? I think I have been clear that a lynch here is a bad idea.

Gamma has requested replacement, Nexus is already searching for one.

[StefanB]

Hello on the mark.
About VC.
The end of day 1 VC is in my iso, I did another one, on day 1 Cult(caught Werewolf) did one.

MoI real talk, so even if Saudade was confirmed town, you would be lynching here, do I understand that right?
You call that fishing, you haven't had a look at my iso since day 1 right?
And ignoring Hooplas read, that was sort of implied in the "only because of the PR-huntnk" you posted, while Hoopla was obvious-town with her cult-interaction and has a post that could very well be dangerous for scum.
I have the coice to call you bad town or scum, but yeah logic tictateds bad town. Sorry that I have to a high opinion of you.

[StefanB]

On the Mark:

Because Implosion feelt wrong somehow.
There is also some posible connection to Cult.
Both Implosion and Cult were active the same time never mentioned each other.
Implosion has neither been on the scumlynch nor the townlynch.
Since the players not beeing on the scumlynch but beeing on the townlynch are understandable: Saudade was tunelling the day 2-lynch and Piplup replaced after the lynch (the mod did not realise there was a lynch)

[StefanB]

Piplup appears to have site flaked, but is a slot I want to hear more from.

What do you want to hear?

Thoughts. Scumhunting. Reason to believe you're town.

Oh...that's it? I thought you had specific questions given the call out.

Reiterate, the MOI/GreyICE interaction should be suspect in later stages, especially given claims now.

Happy to see Stafan go today. Would also vote implosion/Cheeky.

O God that post.
You know it is not a done deal that I die today? I have lived with the votes from Grey and MoI since day 1 and have been mentally prepare for the faultout if I reach L-1 since then.
Okay why is the MoI/Grey-interaction now more suspicious since MoIs claim?
If I turn of that I am angry towards MoIs play this game, it makes him more town.
Why makes that Grey (who is perfectly playing to his personality) more likly scum and not a paranoid townie?
Okay I don't hate the alternative vote.
But I find it interesting, that you don't vote in this post.

[StefanB]

@Mod you forgot to mark that Piplup did replace Erica in the first post

On the Mark is Gamma, there is a nice little list in post one, Nexus has the replacements up to date.

Beeing wrong does unfortunatly not mean werewolf.

At the moment I think the scum are at CheekyTeeky, Piplup and I am feeling more like Hiraki could be it.

Grey is right, MoI makes little sense as werewolf and Grey himself should be town.

On the Mark since I believe that you are town, can you read please the whole game before you look your vote?

Btw I have somethink that can do somethink, the longer I wait the more powerful it gets.
But it would elimate some distraction, use or don't use?

[StefanB]

I couldn't really find your reads re Flavor in your easy (a lazy fast check I have to admite) execpt the last one, and I was there, so can be from context but they aren't easy to find.

[StefanB]

Its not really dificult to find out who OntheMark is.

[StefanB]

Okay I should have remembered the second. And you tell me you had the townread the whole time, didn't care and just hopped that after the mislynch we lynch the one you want?
Wait a second, that sounds not like town.
VOTE: Hiraki

[StefanB]

StefanB

(1) ~ implosion(53)
implosion(2) ~ Hiraki(26), Prism(17)
Prism(1) ~ Erika Furudo(50)

Flavor Leaf

(2) ~ Saudade(75),

CultofAthena

CultofAthena(lynch): GreyIce, Gamma Emerald,

Hoopla, Cheetory6, StefanB, Flavor Leaf

, MoI

I would argue not. (Yes I collored myself green) MoI is the tracker, Grey is scum is somethink that would require a lot of huh, really????. And the other player is you...
And scum (and we) are bussy killing the waggon off.
A busser has really little to hide.
Since Saudade is town and I have a townread on Prism, that means I look of wagon.

[StefanB]

The tracker claimed day 2 as a counterclaim towards fakeclaiming town.
So it is only Hoopla that was killed instead.
He claimed to be roleblocked night 1 and followed Saudede who went nowhere (this is correct)
MoIs theory is that they were afraid of a watcher, Greys that scum screwed up.
Hoopla could have been more dangerous than MoI for the scum, that is my theory, because she was on the right track, while MoI hasn't been on the right track since the hammer.

[StefanB]

Well MoI told us and Saudade can verify it.
And they aren't scum together.
If it is enough I can garantie that the result of MoI is not wrong.

Claim: A fakeclaim and perhaps a softclaim they could have picked up.

P-edit: Cheet was more sheeping Grey (and a short time me) at the point.

[StefanB]

And also perhaps important Grey and MoI (who started fakeclaiming Mason) were at each others troths for a long time this game, so scum hopped for a lynch there perhaps.

P-Edit: MoI is not a rolecop, that is one think that I know.

[StefanB]

To you P-Edit that I will answer when I have to.

[StefanB]

Because everyone has pretty much ignored me since day 1(and I think I claimed PR since day 1) and everythink will be crystal clear upon my dead.
I can't confirm MoI as scum or town, I can confirm that he isn't a rolecop and I belive him to be a tracker.
Since MoI has made it clear that he will lynch confirmed town if he thinks they are bad players because they believe that he is scum, I am a bit unsure what the best option here is.
And now scum has to guess where the better roleblock is.

[StefanB]

Okay, $20 bet, MOI, Flavor Leaf, StefanB. That's my money, that's where it's at.

Please do consider alternatives. Okay your flavorread is indepent of me beeing scum.

Yeah that stefan case is actually pretty good. I think 383 is the thing I was initially townreading him for, mostly off tone. But looking at it more closely it's the kind of thing that can be genuine from

a player

who has no idea how to react to

Flavor.

I bolded what has really happened. I have said everythink I can say to my defence until I am at L-1. Mostly the people are sheeping Grey at the moment. I would probably considering doing this myself if the case sounds belivable. I don't think it does, read my Posts 582 and 598 at last. You can still call he scum caught for the wrong reason, but please don't say the case has merrit.

Here was the first hint.

Btw: I would prefer to not only having only sheepers on the waggon easier.
If you want to sheep Grey this is the wrong waggon to do so.
Have a good reason if you are on it would be good for you.

I also don't think that Greys case is good enough to sheep here. It is so that I believe he believes it, so he is not scum for it.
But at the moment players are sheeping Greys personality not his case.
Since I want to have fun with it and get somethink out of it, can those voting me state please why they believe I am scum, so we can find the scum on the weagon easier, thanks.

Here I was very much softclaiming PR

Btw my prediction for today is actually an Implosion-lynch.

And the weakest vote that is at the moment at my weagon is getting lynched, should have been another strong hint.
I knew I needed to say one word here btw.

[StefanB]

I can say my role and MoIs role both beeing town, is quite posible.
I didn't belive for a second a informationrole like Flavor was claiming could be in the game.

P-Edit: Yes I agree with that.

[StefanB]

Because the idea that he is ascetic just came into the play now.
I don't know what I think about it.
And basicly Grey is one of the most influencal players at the moment.
And the buss was strong, if it was one.

P-edit: Grey was the first one on Cult, after Hoopla voted elsewhere and the waggon had died? What do you mean with late jump?

And that was clearly a question that was meaned to implie I was scum.

[StefanB]

The ascetic was somethink that no one thaught of before. Its not a role I have seen often as a scumrole.
Grey: You braught the waggon back to life, Hoopla was there for some time and abandoned it shortly before.

Grey: Which player would just forget to send in his action?

I would argue that the following wouldn't:
Prism
GreyIce
MagnaOfIllusion
Gamma Emerald
implosion
StefanB

I am pretty sure we can add Hiraki to the list.

[StefanB]

Exspecially since we are talking about night 2.

[StefanB]

Actually you aren't MoI and Grey just screamed and voted at everyone who asked the question before.

[StefanB]

I have seen 4 townpowerroles in a mininormal before. (Mod: Zar
Yates (Town Role Cop) Survived and Won!
Zoroaster (Town Roleblocker) Survived and Won!
Johhog (Macho Cop) was killed on Night One.
Kingmaker (Compulsive Bodyguard) was killed on Night Two.

3 is completly normal against 3 scum

So huh?

The last question is mindblowing, why jk the claimed tracker?

We have found bad logic, have we found scum is the other question.
The last posts from OntheMark screams yes.

VOTE: OntheMark
I remember 1988, we nearly lynched one of the powerroles (and lynched the other)
Not they were 1-shot btw 2-shot. They only way they gave a guilty was when both investigated the same player what happened. (Or the scum fakeclaims) The Day 5-inochild never survives until day 5.

[StefanB]

I had some thoughts if it was MoI, but for Grey to went along with it, would mean that Grey and MoI are scum together, that planned their whole game after that one fakeclaim...
That hurts.

I use the JK also more to catch scum, I think that doctor is a better role than Grey states here, btw.

P-Edit: And the cop a hell better role than OnTheMark states here.

[StefanB]

Cheeky he is not protecting you.
Tracker is a role that is not that dangerous if the player is of course and MoI looked of course.

[StefanB]

Cheeky tomorrow is planned.
You know popcorn?

Grey: A lot of thinks make now more sense.
That is for the other players to decied.

[StefanB]

But I am not for it.
PS there are PRs without a nightaction.

[StefanB]

We were not talking about me, but a potential 4th PR.
I am a claimed PR who can confirm what he said today.

[StefanB]

We will have that talk tomorrow perhaps and we can scream at each other re crapplay postgame.
I will be of for a few hours btw.

[StefanB]

The ascetic was somethink that no one thaught of before. Its not a role I have seen often as a scumrole.
Grey: You braught the waggon back to life, Hoopla was there for some time and abandoned it shortly before.

Grey: Which player would just forget to send in his action?

I would argue that the following wouldn't:
Prism
GreyIce
MagnaOfIllusion
Gamma Emerald
implosion
StefanB

I am pretty sure we can add Hiraki to the list.

Mainly it’s for this post here.

It feels odd to me that StephanB wouldn’t include Hiraki in the list of wouldn’t forget if scum pile.

Makes it much more likely for a StephanB/implosion scum team.

VOTE: StephanB

I had Hiraki in the list when I first made it, was thinking I don't know him good enough to post that whit him there.


MoI I will answer everythink town wants to know. My opinion of you as a player isn't very high right now and I don't think a shooting-match here will help town, as much as I want to shoot at you.

[StefanB]

VOTE: OntheMark

I've been kept from a computer due to my daugther's birthday dinner and come back to this? Sigh.

First off I clearly believe Grey because I dropped any talk about him being scum the moment I saw his crumbs Day 2. It made absolute sense that blocked me as Town who suspected me. I've been busting my tail all fucking day trying to shut down and discuss about what happened with blocks and Night 2 because it ONLY served fucking scum who know there is likely a Town Blocking role out there. Stefan in fact earned my vote on the strength of how much he continued to fish.

So if the scum team isn't OntheMark and Stefan then whichever of you might be Town had better hang your heads in shame postgame. Because we already had one derp Town (Flavor) pull out a claim. Repeating it today was terrrible, terrible play as Town. As scum ... great work ...

Stefan if you are Town stop talking about roles for the rest of today because that's Road to Rome level crap play.

If MoI is town, then his reads and his observationskills suck since the hammer. If Grey is town, he hasn't voted scum since the hammer.

Hey Stefan … so how do you know Grey hasn’t voted scum since the hammer hmmm?

Also I’ve noticed your softclaiming all Day. There are a limited amount of roles that make sense for what you suggest and the two at the front of my mind CANNOT clear Saud which is why your fishing has looked like scum searching for the missing Town blocker. So nah … my observation skills don’t suck.[/quote]

Reading comprehension 0. I have sad that MoI hasn't voted scum since the hammer, if Grey is town.
And yeah your day 3 sucked. I am currently see you as a player slightly above Flavor for this day alone until the last vote.

I mean the reason for scum to claim tracker and cost to endgame, it exist.

So your theory is I’m a scum information role that sees an obviously fake Town information claim and immediately counter-claims it BEFORE letting any actual Town information roles do so? Walk me through that.

An what we know now a blocked information role. Tracker is a medium information-role that claim could survive long enough.
And if it quakes like a duck. Your play looked to me to terrible to be TownMoI. So my question was hell he looks like scum, so could he fakeclaim tracker here.
Sorry I wanted to keep my former highopinion of you, I don't have that anymore.

I mean the reason for scum to claim tracker and cost to endgame, it exist.

Um again nope. My theory was scum was afraid of a PROTECTIVE role. Like … I don’t know … a Jailkeeper who jailed me Night 1. That you keep trying to suggest Watcher is my theory also bolstered why I still think you could be scum … clear misrepresentation.

I can't read your mind. This makes more sense, but what you were seeling was the watcher and that was actually a stepup from the nonsense you made out re Saud is a Ninja, but at that point it didn't make sense.

MoI real talk, so even if Saudade was confirmed town, you would be lynching here, do I understand that right?

Of course not. Duh. I wanted to impress upon Grey how much I don’t want the possibility of Town’s fate being in his hands since scum is NEVER killing him if he is Town.

Good to know, there may be hope yet.

PoE pool is Stefan, Grey, Gamma - after Implosion

So Hiraki talk to me about why Grey was on this list … inquiring minds want to hear your thought process.

--

That is a interesting question, if OntheMark is town, I think Hiraki looks like the most likly scum.

For the moment, assuming Grey and MoI are town,

The three potential teams I would see are
StephanB and Saudade
Hiraki and Saudade
StephanB and Cheeky Teeky
And Hiraki and Cheeky Teeky

Oddly enough my top scumreads are Stephan and Hiraki but they don’t make sense together. They only make sense with one of Saudade and Cheeky Teeky which is really weird.

Okay eliminating, the imposible on Hiraki and Saudade. If I am town Saudede is town. Since that leaves from your scumteams only Hiraki and Cheeky Teeky(Implosion) from my point of view. Hiraki wanted Implosions head since day 1. That was some great level distancing.

Stefan and Implosion is an interesting scumteam to say the last.

[StefanB]

Hello riku, btw to post that before the mod closed the tread.

[StefanB]

I am thinking about if I can eliminate the Stefan/CheekyTeekyscumteam.
But this will be done tomorrow 100%.
So Hiraki/CheekyTeeky(Implosion)/Cult makes that sense?
Cult was never mentioned either player.

[StefanB]

I wanted to be polite and say hello.
We had a hammer so I do exspect the mod to close the tread, soon.

[StefanB]

If he flipps scum, we will first all check what that means, who is a likly partner etc.
I am not pumping words out that much after a hammer, I don't have the time now to write long post, the mod will close the tread first.

[StefanB]

Cheeky: If this flipps scum, Saud is off the table. I am not Flavor whatever MoI may think of me.
If it flipps town and you lynch me, Saud is also of the table.
There is no universe were you lynch him.

[StefanB]

Its to late for that, and huh you were active the moment that waggon was at L-1, so strange reaction.
We massclaim tomorrow, I agree that hammer looks scummy/interesting. But we make a reasonable decision, its time that gets less toxic.

P-Edit: Double-Huh?

[StefanB]

How did you think that was fake? (Echoing Hiraki here but don't deleting it)

[StefanB]

That means your reads are Hiraki/Piplup.

[StefanB]

Because Saudade can't be scum with any of them.

[StefanB]

Cheeky: I am claiming I know Saudade is town.
If I am town I am telling the truth, Saud is town.
If I am lying I am scum and there is only on other scum left. (Akay either Saud is scum, or any of the others)

[StefanB]

Cheeky not in twilight. I need 3 words tomorrow and a few others to make it clear what and why thinks happened.

[StefanB]

How sure are you on Cheeky and how sure are you that Piplup is town?
Those are the points that could loose it.

[StefanB]

Okay I will go first if you all want to do it.
Before I claim, feedback would be nice who should go second.
Normally all players give their opinion on who goes first and the one who is a favorite stards.
Afterwards he or she choses the next one to go (that is popcorn)
Once started we claim all and discuse it at the end.

This time since their seems to be some agreement that I should start first, you will all give me some name, who you want to see second.

MoI should not reveal his resolts until everyone has claimed.

Any questions left?

[StefanB]

I thought it was the consense yesterday, If not I want Hiraki to start.

[StefanB]

And I do want the person to start, that if Cheeky is scum, is her most likly partner from my point of view.
(Pieplup is not the right person if MoIs argument is right, I don't think Prism was scum...)

[StefanB]

Yes, sorry that are the rules of popcorn. Or is it enough for me to say Saud claims later?

[StefanB]

I will let someone else take this, because I won't be part of what happens then.
It will depend on the question if I am online or not. (One think is that MoI wants you dead)
Sometimes a PR claims that, targets later.

[StefanB]

Piplup who is next?

[StefanB]

No suprise here, the other mason, for everyone who asked why I did know that MoI wasn't a rolecop his post made it painfully obvious that he had no idea what Sauds role was.
Hiraki you are up next.

[StefanB]

Now riku yes.

[StefanB]

Here is somethink I prepare in advantage, on day 1:
Some post and how I would have reacted to them if I would have tried (somehow to hide the role)
Grey:

Oh MOI is my mason buddy, I'm claiming early to head off any potential confusion.

Cool you have a mason buddy, too.

Saudade:

GreyICE claimed mason we should kill him at night
oops wrong thread

Yeah, but that was a good one.

MoI:

I mean ... the whole "Oops wrong thread" play is so cheeky scum.

Yes it should have been in the mason-qt.

MoI about Saudade:

Yeah Grey ... this is a live one ...

Come on Mason partner let's do this!!!!

Heh MoI-Grey fake mason, stopp acusing my real mason buddy.

Moi about Sauds scumgame:

Did you go read the game in question? I'm curious.

Nope. The mod told me he is town, so I am not doing unnecesary work.

MoI:

Grey I really need to you get in here and give me some insight because I am going nuts watching this. I don't think Saud and Implosion / Erika are all partners. But I am having a hard as hell time deciding which side is more scummy.

Well Saud is my partner and town, so this is actually easy.

Cheet:
His nullreads:

Erika, Stefan, Hoopla, Saudade, Hiraki

Well that would have been better, if you had me and Saudade together and not Hoopla inbetween

MoI about Greys vote on me:

Grey do I need to go to Mason Divorce court? Because yeah I just have no idea what is going through your head right now. Who is scum? Because you've spent a bunch of time talking about how I might be onto something with Saud and lord knows I have yet to see any sort of good argument that he's Town.

Yeah - anything Tone related is junk that is NEVER, EVER going to sell me that Saud's ISO is Town. Maybe it is but if so he's terrible Firebringer style town in which case he's probably just as good a Day 1 policy as Flavor.

You know if another player acuse one masson of being scum, you not buying it is good. That looses the good when you atack the other masson though.

Grey:

Consider the masonry dissolved.

No I wanted to hide between you 2.

Me:

I am kind of said to see the masonairy go so early, btw.

See above

Hope they are at last somehow I bit funny

That was prepare day 1, if anyone has any more needs of proof that the masonary is real, how big should the wall be?

[StefanB]

Cheeky did want Saudede to claim first, while scumreading Hiraki, what logic is there?

MoI: Result and how sure are you that Piplup can't be scum?
Because I see Prism/riku as town.

[StefanB]

And yes we have daytalk. Mod gave it to us practically on a wim, thats why I said to MoI day 2 that I believe scum has daytalk.

[StefanB]

I just want to give MoI time to get his opinions in.
We still have to find the partner.

[StefanB]

Piplups and Rikus options about the game would also be helpful.

[StefanB]

I can post a wall with all the hints from my iso that we were massons. I was a bit suptil day 1, not so much after that.
But Cheekys whole game today scream scum, so probably not necesary.

Thanks MoI for the respond re Piplup. Who is town between Piplup and Riku needs to help us tomorrow.

[StefanB]

MoI: I won't. Promise.

[StefanB]

I can do:
Night 1 blocked (tried Grey)
night 2 Saudade went nowhere
night 3 blocked (tried Hiraki)

[StefanB]

He asumed the second one, but we don't know it. (and will probably only learn postgame)
First night was confirmed Grey.

P-Edit: I have seen JK vs Rb in a theme with a competent mod(Farside22) years ago. So works and there are rules for it.

[StefanB]

Yeah, but I want to believe in Grey here.
It plays no real role going forward.

[StefanB]

Piplup: To late, allready selfhammered.

[StefanB]

Okay first Piplup and riku thoughts about the game now. riku hasn't given any thoughts since replace in, Piplups not much in the last 2 gamedays.

[StefanB]

Yepp, look at Nexus post 5 players alive.

[StefanB]

Because this just seems to be a list of players alive.

[StefanB]

And what do you think is going on her, if you doubt the claim?
Info we have only one scum left.

[StefanB]

I am not necessary sugesting that I want to lynch riku today, but I want before the vote more imput from both of this slots.
Makes it a hell lot of easier if we lynch wrong today.

[StefanB]

Good morning Piplup.

[StefanB]

Piplup: Anythink that makes on of the 2 less likly?

[StefanB]

SO we have a piplup-riku-mason-lylo if Hiraki flipps town, that will be interesting.

[StefanB]

Tomorrow the two unconfirmed should crossvote, btw.
I will talk towards Saudade in the QT and he towards me, so it should be easier for the surviving mason.

[StefanB]

Wasn't that the hammer before?

[StefanB]

No coment on the question who I do want to lynch tomorrow, will go over the whole game again.

[StefanB]

I always asumed he posted the whole RolePM with all partners.

[StefanB]

Thanks for taking over Nexus.

[StefanB]

Wait only Werewolfencriptor where did the RB on Moi come from?

[StefanB]

Since Prism is here it feels better to congratulate the scumteam.
So congratulation to the winners exspecially Prism.
If you stayed and manage to play as good as the first days, I would have nominated you for a scummy.

[StefanB]

Who blocked MoI night 3? Grey dinies it, scum hasn't got a blocker?

[StefanB]

Nexus you are definitly not shit. It was a mistake but it is a game.

[StefanB]

I can confirm that I found really nothing on anyones ISO (Execpt Cheets) that make me think, yeah that person suspects Prism, so kudos that was a great scumgame of yours.
If It had been riku alone, the lynch would have been easier, should have not let the Hirakilynch go through in the second to last day.
I always try to have the fire day 1 but not allways have it. (And here I was hiding a bit behind Grey, MoI, Hoopla and Cheet)
Cheet was great to play with btw.