Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[Guardian]

:\

I can't say much more than what I have.

I've played really bad in this game, and I apologize for that.

My only respite is that lynching millers day one isn't that bad, so if you can't see my bad play as just that, bad play, and not scum motivated play, then at least you lynched the non-scum best role to lynch in the game.

A few questions to think about:
were I scum, why unclaim? railroading a case on a townie and getting lynched day 2 would be better than getting lynched day 1.
were I scum, why so obviously breadcrumb a guilty day 1, that I knew to be false?

meh. I really meant what I said about stoofer. If I'm lynched he'll try and tell you tomorrow I'm a rambling lunatic, but really, look hard into him, look at SlySly's case, and consider lynching him deeply. I'd support considering lynching him today !

[Guardian]

If there's anything specific you'd like me to reply to, let me know.

I realize it seems very tempting and good to lynch me right now, but that won't result in dead scum.

[SlySly]

were I scum, why unclaim?

You never unclaimed. You never claimed Cop, you just hinted at it.

were I scum, why so obviously breadcrumb a guilty day 1, that I knew to be false?

Miller is the perfect thing to breadcrumb for scum who is acting like a Cop. It gives you an out.

look at SlySly's case, and consider lynching him deeply. I'd support considering lynching him today!

I realize it seems very tempting and good to lynch me right now, but that won't result in dead scum.

We now all know an investigation on you will return a guilty. Any investigations on me will return innocent.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Musher, I count him at L-2. HackeHuck voted on him twice.

[Guardian]

slysly, him refers to stoofer, not to you.

[HackerHuck]

I'm not sure if I need to repeat any of the things that everyone else has said about you Guardian. It should be obvious to you why Millers are bad news to the town. It's a crappy claim because the only way to prove it is by lynching you. Scum would never kill a miller, which means that the town has to do it at some point. The only good news is that cops won't bother wasting an investigation on you, but you pretty much blew that by crumbing cop to begin with.

Like the others, I think you forgot that I was already voting you, so my vote was more of a confirmation than anything else - hence the context.

If you're town, then I guess you did us a favor by claiming miller so we can kill you sooner rather than later, but that's small comfort.

[Guardian]

Wait up.

In games with no investigative roles, townies aren't confirmable.

That doesn't mean that they should be lynched.

Me not being confirmable is a horrible reason to lynch me.

Me being scummy, sure. Me being not confirmable, that's scum-talk.

FOS: Huck

[Mr Stoofer]

~twiddles thumbs~

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I am seriously wondering what guardian would have to gain if scum by claiming miller. Admitedly Guardian has playede a wierd game and I would dread the day I was given a miller role to play. But In a set up when there is not certainty we have a cop I can't understand drawing so much attention to yourself and trying to insinuate cop. Esentialy Guardians play style led to suspicion and this claim which is always going to be difficult and unhelpful to town.
Ima still on the

very likely jester

side of things and urge no one to hammer.
actualy putting that miller thing in code is dubious to the max as it shows serious forward planning about having to claim in the near future. What better cliam to get lynched than miller, even a scum claim is less likely to get you lynched than miller.
I think guardian played towards a planned claim that I am finding hard to believe but I think of it as less likely to come from scum than from a

Jester

.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I realize it seems very tempting and good to lynch me right now, but that won't result in dead scum.

I think Guardian wants to be lynched, hence my comments lynch bait. Since then Guardian has done wonders to try and get himself lynched. I also suggested that he could be some sort of Jesus Jester role. I believe he thought I was catching on to him and has tried to finishes his life off before anyone else could cotton on.

Please dont Lynch Guardian today we have plenty of other decent suspects and I am very happy he is a Jester.

[Musher333]

I realize it seems very tempting and good to lynch me right now, but that won't result in dead scum.

I think Guardian wants to be lynched, hence my comments lynch bait. Since then Guardian has done wonders to try and get himself lynched. I also suggested that he could be some sort of Jesus Jester role. I believe he thought I was catching on to him and has tried to finishes his life off before anyone else could cotton on.

Please dont Lynch Guardian today we have plenty of other decent suspects and I am very happy he is a Jester.

I am new to non basic games so could you explain what a jester is?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Somebody who wins when they are lynched. That is about all I know, check the wiki roles section. If a more knowledgable player can give more info about the role please do.
I had the question of do they win if they are lynched day two and how do they lose?
Also is it of any value to keep them around as they appear to be of no use to the town or scum, and is the only value of keeping a suspected Jester around to stop them achieving their win condition?
And lastly is it a possible stratergy of mafia to try and have people believ you to be a jester so that you are not lynched?

[Mr Stoofer]

This is the wiki description: Jester. A Jester is someone whose aium in the game is to get themselves lynched. Normally they lose if they are lynched Day 1.

The thought hadn't crossed my mind that Guardian was a Jester, but it would explain someone pretending to be a Cop and then admitting that they were not.

I had the question of do they win if they are lynched day two and how do they lose?

A Jester wins if he is lynched Day 2, and loses if he is nightkilled or endgamed.

Also is it of any value to keep them around as they appear to be of no use to the town or scum, and is the only value of keeping a suspected Jester around to stop them achieving their win condition?

This is the problem with Jesters. First, you can never trust them. 99% of players who claim Jester are Scum. Imagine this: if the game gets down to you, Guardian and one other player, are you going to trust Guardian enough to vote the other guy? Secondly, Jesters hurt the Town because they will not help the Town to lynch Scum. On the contrary, they have to make sure that they do not appear to be a threat to the Scum; because if they help the Town to lynch Scum then the Scum will kill them at night and then they will lose. Instead, they have to try to hurt the Town so much (e.g. by attacking pro-Town players) that the Town lynches them.

And lastly is it a possible stratergy of mafia to try and have people believ you to be a jester so that you are not lynched?

Yes, that certainly is a strategy that has been used before. As I say, 99% of Jester claims come from Scum.

[Mr Stoofer]

In fact, a

real

Jester would usually not claim Jester.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Where does the jester losing if lynched day one come from?
If this is the general rule then I would be up for a guardian lynch. If miller scum or jester it is best to get rid of all those possibilities now.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Yes of course they would not claim jester but they would try their best to get lynched with another claim, and I can think of no better claim than miller. The only thing that bothers me (if Mr Stoofer you are correct about lossing if lynched day one) is that this claim should not have been done day one but saved untill tommorow. Perhaps that was the intention but Guardian thought he might scrape through today.

[Mr Stoofer]

Where does the jester losing if lynched day one come from?

Perhaps I should have said "often" rather than "normally". An example is Thespival Mafia -- see the Jester's win condition in this post.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok so there is no rule but sometimes it excludes the first day. Are there any other examples of this occuring. If it is often, sometimes, rarely or whatever I want to know. And I am not sure If I believe him to be Jester should I want to lynch him and give him the win just to be rid of him?
Oh what a pickle!

[Mr Stoofer]

I agree with all of that tvod. That's why you won't see Jesters in any game which I run.

[hasdgfas]

I am seriously wondering what guardian would have to gain if scum by claiming miller. Admitedly Guardian has playede a wierd game and I would dread the day I was given a miller role to play. But In a set up when there is not certainty we have a cop I can't understand drawing so much attention to yourself and trying to insinuate cop. Esentialy Guardians play style led to suspicion and this claim which is always going to be difficult and unhelpful to town.
Ima still on the

very likely jester

side of things and urge no one to hammer.
actualy putting that miller thing in code is dubious to the max as it shows serious forward planning about having to claim in the near future. What better cliam to get lynched than miller, even a scum claim is less likely to get you lynched than miller.
I think guardian played towards a planned claim that I am finding hard to believe but I think of it as less likely to come from scum than from a

Jester

.

NO! Let's not get distracted from a good lynch by talking about Jesters. All that can do is distract us. Bringing it up when we have nothing to make us think that there are Jesters is a terrible move and deserves a

FoS: tvod

from me. Also, how the heck does Jester fit the flavor here? Ancient Egypt/Biblical times. I just don't see a Jester fitting in, and I don't like how tvod brought it up. If he is a jester and wins day 1, so what. I don't care. We've gotten rid of someone very distracting and detrimental to the town, and can actually look for scum. I still think Guardian is our best bet for a lynch right now and I still

want a vote count please

.

[Guardian]

I'm fairly sure I'm at lynch -2.

I also urge no one to vote me, but not for fear I'm a jester.

Whatever you may fear, I'm not a jester.

[Singing Librarian]

As far as I could work out when I voted, my vote put Guardian at L-2.

Talk of jesters can get us nowhere, I fear. Yes, it's possible that Guardian is a jester, but I'd put that possibility in distant third place behind lying scum (1) and miller playing badly (2).

Also, tvod, what do you mean by a "Jesus Jester role"? Jesus is completely wrong flavour-wise in this game, so I am intrigued to work out what you mean. You're not bringing up the idea of a jester to distract us from lynching Guardian are you?

[lord_hur]

I am seriously wondering what guardian would have to gain if scum by claiming miller. Admitedly Guardian has playede a wierd game and I would dread the day I was given a miller role to play. But In a set up when there is not certainty we have a cop I can't understand drawing so much attention to yourself and trying to insinuate cop. Esentialy Guardians play style led to suspicion and this claim which is always going to be difficult and unhelpful to town.
Ima still on the

very likely jester

side of things and urge no one to hammer.
actualy putting that miller thing in code is dubious to the max as it shows serious forward planning about having to claim in the near future. What better cliam to get lynched than miller, even a scum claim is less likely to get you lynched than miller.
I think guardian played towards a planned claim that I am finding hard to believe but I think of it as less likely to come from scum than from a

Jester

.

Since Guardian's stupid (in my opinion) case against hasdgfas, the possibility that he is a jester has also been on my mind. Logically, there were only 2 explanations to that case :

1. It could be that Guardian is a very bad cop with a guilty result. Since I've read a few of Guardian's games though, I know that he usually plays quite well, so it was not very probable. Moreover, even that the worst cop would do this is quite mindblowing. Yet it was (still is...) a possibility, light as it was/is.
2. Largely more alluring to me is the possibility that he is a jester. Obviously, as Mr Stoofer pointed out, the main advantage of this theory is that it could explain his surprisingly bad playing (including his uncalled-for claim), but I kept the whole thing to myself as it was very early speculation and this is my first game with unconventional roles.

VOD just worded the same theory now though, so I thought I'd say that for maybe the first time in the game, I agree with him.

Excellent progression in your understandabilty lately, by the way

[undo]

Not voting:

hasdgfas, lord_hur, Musher333, Shin Hatsubai

With 11 alive, it's

6 to lynch

.

[lord_hur]

undo, could you do prod Shin Hatsubai ?

[Mr Stoofer]

Please don't prod him, replace him!