Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)


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Post Post #1550 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:06 am

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1547, ruru wrote:Are you saying he would always be designated bus with you
In post 1548, ruru wrote:Like, framer dying d1 vs d2 is pretty significant even if the player is readable

I'm not sure I buy into framer being designated bus in general
I agree, it's a tradeoff

Id like to think that scum me would've already known HWS was jailkeeper and would've instructed him to claim cop

He'd definitely be the weak link by scum skill if teamed with me
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Post Post #1551 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:07 am

Post by Mathdino »

NSG is not worth more than a cop in my opinion
I respect her but not THAT much
I'm starting to build a profile of when her reads are thrown off and why
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Post Post #1552 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:08 am

Post by ruru »

Wait you're actually 100% accurate?

I thought you were like, 50% or something else much better than random
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Post Post #1553 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:10 am

Post by Mathdino »

No I'm literally 100% on shooting a power role every night I've been alive
I also called power roles after my death but scumpartners are dumb
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Post Post #1554 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:11 am

Post by Mathdino »

I don't call myself the greatest pr hunter for nothing xD

I still have a draft for a PR tells article for the mafia discussion
May publish it at some point, idk, got disillusioned with the MD
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Post Post #1555 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:13 am

Post by Mathdino »

See this scum pt for my most lolworthy game

Shot the doctor for the "WHAT SHOULD THE DOCTOR DO" tell
The same tell hws dropped this game
Then faked a guilty on the cop preemptively
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Post Post #1556 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:14 am

Post by ruru »

... okay I'm willing to lose to the one time you take the wifom line instead

Especially since jk was obvious in this game and you could be making the same argument without doing all three of shooting nsg and having jjh make a suboptimal claim and having jjh claim a role that was already obvious

VOTE: davesaz
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Post Post #1557 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:16 am

Post by Zoronos »

I don't care about NK spec or self-meta.
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Post Post #1558 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:16 am

Post by Mathdino »

Sweet

Help me fine tune my lynch line though? I'm not really even 60% sure on Dave tbh
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Post Post #1559 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:20 am

Post by Zoronos »

That I am happy to do.
Like, I'll work with you to develop a case (which, frankly, I'm kinda toe-tapping waiting on the low post count crowd at the moment for), but self-meta, nk spec, and vague appeals to 'bad votes' aren't what will convince me you're right.
What I will do is work to convince myself whether you're right (or wrong).
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Post Post #1560 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:21 am

Post by Mathdino »

I also hate self meta
This is a borderline case though in which I play as well as possible as scum specifically for situations like this where scum plays like shit
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Post Post #1561 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:33 am

Post by davesaz »

You should be able to meta TR me off team mafia plus other games we've been town together. No research should be necessary.
VOTE: Mathdino
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Post Post #1562 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:33 am

Post by davesaz »

That's a fuck you death tunnel btw.
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Post Post #1563 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:36 am

Post by davesaz »

I'm gonna ignore this till my blood pressure drops a bit.
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Post Post #1564 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:37 am

Post by the worst »

Hm

I was surprised by the VT flip as well tbh
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #1565 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:39 am

Post by Mathdino »

I don't know what evidence Dave has to argue that I can just soulread people without research other than NSG
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Post Post #1566 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:40 am

Post by the worst »

You can hack accounts and read role PMs right?

That vote was too weird I'm waiting for Dave to return and not reading into it too much yet
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #1567 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:48 am

Post by Mathdino »

That vote was the most team mafia 2018 davesaz post I've ever seen
The problem is he's saying that shit literally while asking me to meta him based off that same game

My meta is always done on people before I announce that I'm gonna meta them
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Post Post #1568 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:18 am

Post by pinturicchio »

Why Something_Smart could've been the scumshot: the conspiracy theory.
This are the posts that pinged me the most while looking at SS' ISO. Now that I read it, it's not that crazy to think that he was the scumshot, since he said some things that could be considered as PR crumbing:
In post 652, Something_Smart wrote:Well, I'd be skeptical of ANY strong read on me, not just a scumread.

I don't believe that a strong scumread on me is questionable because I'm obviously town-- if that were the case, I'd write something closer to the latter. Instead, I believe that a strong scumread on me is questionable because I haven't given enough content to be readable that confidently, in which case my guilt or innocence is actually irrelevant.
Talking about "guilt or innocence" pinged me the first time and pinged me again rereading his ISO. Maybe the scumteam thought he was the cop?
In post 1250, Something_Smart wrote:No CC and will respond to Zoronos soon.

Glad we didn't out a useful PR.
SS was being pushed on D1 too, and says "glad we didn't out a useful PR", could perfectly be genuine relief that he wasn't the one at L-1.
In post 1255, Something_Smart wrote:My reads are basically:
HitAlt, the worst, ruru, BlackStar, and Zoronos are bad lynches because I townread them.
jjh is obviously a bad lynch barring a counterclaim.
Mathdino, davesaz and northsidegal are bad lynches because I haven't seen anything especially bad from them and they should be easier to sort later in the game.

I still don't have any scumreads worth anything. But since you're looking for consensus, my preferred lynch would be one of {pintu, HWS, ofrhz}.
This was the last (and only) readlist coming from him. We know HWS is conftown, so either ofrhz or me could be worried being his target if he was the cop; I don't think that's the case, because I'm not scum, duh, and I don't think ofrhz would be a good cop target. I think his three "bad lynches 'cause they should be easier to sort later" could again be considered as crumbing an the list of players he would target as cop; we know NSG is town, so davesaz and Mathdino are both players that could be worried about a cop check.
In post 1356, Something_Smart wrote:If we get a JK flip vig should shoot someone else other than confscum.
But here's some refutal: from vig's perspective, SS saying this could be taken as scummy; "if we get a JK flip" could sound like "I'm trying to hide the fact that I KNOW this is not a JK flip".

Either way, my conclusion is that SS was a good shot either coming from the vig or the scumteam, while NSG was a good shot coming from scum but not as much coming from the vig, unless the vig thought my lovely theory about scum!Dino and scum!NSG together and didn't have the willpower to shoot the dinosaur.

I'm not a fan of NKA, but I do think that both deads are good for scum!Dino: if SS was the scumshot ( :P ), both Dino and davesaz could've have done it, and Dino now publicly stating that he's a great PR hunter could back up this theory; if NSG was the target, scum!Dino could be worried of her sorting him out later. I personally think that's not the case, but it does ping me that scum decided not to kill a confirmed PR and instead shot another player. Given the facts, shooting SS over NSG looking for one of the PRs makes more sense, so either a) NSG was killed because of something else than her being a possible PR, or b) SS was shot because being a possible PR.

Now, Something_Funny I noticed about Something_Smart: he didn't vote not a single time during D1.

VOTE: Mathdino
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Post Post #1569 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:26 am

Post by Zoronos »

NSG was the towniest player in the game after JJH flipped scum; she drove that train right over him. If a vig shot her, I don't even know what to say.
Something_Smart was the vig shot unless we live in upside down world.
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Post Post #1570 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:33 am

Post by ruru »

She was the towniest even before he flipped

If the vig actually shot nsg town doesn't deserve to win

@pin do you have any meta where you entertained an idea
this
tinfoily as town? Because it feels anti-gamesolvey to me atm
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Post Post #1571 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:38 am

Post by pinturicchio »

No no, I said I was going to do this to see what I concluded, and I still think the same as both of you: NSG was killed by scum, SS was the vig shot, but I didn't want to disregard the possibility. I said it before: by Occam's razor, it's obvious.

@ruru why do you think it isn't gamesolvey? This is the first time I feel engaged with the game and that's good to gamesolve from your perspective and from mine.
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Post Post #1572 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:45 am

Post by Zoronos »

I agree with ruru.
Pintu: It's anti game-solving because there is no world where S_S is scum and looking through his ISO for 'why maybe the scum shot him for being a PR' doesn't do any good when he's already flipped VT.
If you have done a bunch of stuff then concluded nothing, just don't post it. It's noise that doesn't advance the cause of finding scum. Find scum.

Also the logic of MathDino shooting a maybe-PR over a claimed PR requires 1) MathDino to ignore a claimed PR and 2) a vig to exist that was willing to shoot NSG.
A part of me thinks maybe MathDino is scum here, but of all the reasons why, that's not among them.
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Post Post #1573 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:56 am

Post by pinturicchio »

Dude, me showing the reasoning behind something I did is not anti game-solving, period. Part of gamesolving is being townread by your fellow townreads, and me being an open book is something I do everytime I'm town, to show what's behind my reads. And "also the logic of MathDino shooting a maybe-PR bla bla bla" you're invalidating a point that I don't back up, stop with the straw man falacies. If I say two times "I think that SS was the vig shot because of this and that" and I vote Dino, why the fuck do you think I'm voting Dino for trying to kill SS??
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Post Post #1574 (ISO) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:04 am

Post by ruru »

Okay so first of all from my perspective the dinosaur is pretty much confirmed town because his self-meta argument would still mostly work with far less self-sabotage than the scumteam already made

I'm not a 100% pr hunter or as strong a player as he is in general and if I were scum I would've just planned to shoot hws based on that one post and then fake claim cop/vig at L1

There being multiple suboptimal decisions makes me think there's no way he would risk losing that much EV on an argument that a lot of Reads Players are just going to ignore
In post 1572, Zoronos wrote:Also the logic of MathDino shooting a maybe-PR over a claimed PR requires 1) MathDino to ignore a claimed PR and 2) a vig to exist that was willing to shoot NSG.
For #1 I do think he would shoot for cop/vig in this setup and save the obvious jk for later, and apparently by meta he wouldn't miss if he was actually trying?

But #2 is a big assumption, she was like universally townread
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