Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[davesaz]

That’s why rc had to be killed obv... and impossibear must have been n1 attempt. If Maria town then otm scum qed.

Petit no the result is for before. New member does not vote on that night target.

[Alchemist21]

Ouroboros, Deacon,

Commonwealth Limited Neighborizer Conditional Shared Tracker

, was killed Night 2.

Spoiler: Role PM

Deacon

Welcome to Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition!

You are

Deacon (

Commonwealth Limited Neighborizer Conditional Shared Tracker

)

.

Master of disguise, Deacon works as a member of Railroad to free the runaway synths.

---

Abilities:

• Recruit:
  During the night, you may recruit a player to your neighborhood. You can only invite up to two members. If for any reason one of your member dies, you may recruit again up to the maximum members.
  
• Railroad:
  Recruiting a member awards you with 1-shot track for the neighborhood. This ability is a shared ability and the majority of the neighborhood must agree to a target. Recruiting the member of the
  Institute
  will permanently compromise this ability and you will get "no visit" result for all investigations, regardless of your target's actual actions.

---

Win Condition

• Eliminate all who are sided with the
  Institute

Day 3 deadline: (expired on 2018-06-09 23:05:14)

Ouroboros received a quest to help out the settlements!

@MOD, Regarding this quoted role, if a member of the Institute were recruited on the same Night as a Track attempt, would that Night's Track attempt return a "no visit" result?

[YT2980]

So, on the basis of the information I've gathered from the thread and the dead, here's where I stand at the moment.

Town: Kaede, OnTheMark, Ankamius, davesaz
Town lean: Dunnstral, alchemist21, Kokichi
Nulltown: RMOJ, wilks
Scum: MariaR, punreader

I like Maria R best for the lynch. Nothing in her discography of posts in this thread suggests town to me. I don't like how hesitant Maria has been to releasing information concerning the nature of her role combined with how eager she was to release information regarding its investigative abilities. Can't fathom her having a town motive in mind given the way she's played with that investigative role. Seems like exactly the type of play a scum investigative role would commit to.

Also, for why I townread davesaz,

Ank, Ram, and alchemist need my attention too.

I appreciate that several townies have decided that rushing to martyr me is a bad idea.

A couple days to work on these reads would be nice, please and thanks.

I can't, under any circumstance, see a scum motive behind making a statement like this. This smacks of being town to me all day, because I can't ever see scum defending several players that were on their lynch wagon as being town in one post when their back is against the wall. Why would scum ever make a statement like this?

I also can't fathom why davesaz made so many townreads when he was a lynch target. What scum motive could possibly be behind his play?

[YT2980]

VOTE: MariaR

[YT2980]

I will admit that a lot of davesaz's play is indefensible, but those 2 things in particular lead me to think he's a bad lynch choice.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Scum: MariaR, punreader

Do you think scum punreader with 1 member down hard buses another member whose flip will give a hard guilty on the 3rd?

[YT2980]

Scum: MariaR, punreader

Do you think scum punreader with 1 member down hard buses another member whose flip will give a hard guilty on the 3rd?

Let me investigate. 185 pages is a lot to analyze, and I'll admit I couldn't look at everything. Can you quote me where this happened?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

well not exactly quote but, basically Day 3 punreader hard pushed matt based on nero's scum meta, MariaR previously had said that she had tracked matt visiting no one, and we know from Ouroboros' flip that if there's scum in the neighborhood then the track will always say "No visit", matt flipped a scum role cop.
Those are the facts.
Now a supposed scum punreader would've known that matt would flip scum role cop, and that matt had indeed acted N2, hence would know that flipping matt would cast a hard guilty on MariaR due to Ouroboros role. With 1 scum down, do you really think they did this? it's not like anyone had brought up Nero's scum meta previously and matt's supposedly known to be a very good scum player.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

btw, i have confirmed with GIF that what davesaz says is true. So regardless of dave's alignment MariaR is conf scum.

[GuyInFreezer]

@MOD, Regarding this quoted role, if a member of the Institute were recruited on the same Night as a Track attempt, would that Night's Track attempt return a "no visit" result?

The result will be compromised when the institute is already in the neighborhood.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: MariaR

[Kaede Akamatsu]

would be nice if you guys could hold off for a bit, still wanna know what Jungle's quest is all about.

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

hey. nice lynch yesterday. fucking sucks for ETL to die, now the only players I joined this game for are dead. oh well I’ll try to carry until they kill me

today’s quest makes you a commuter for 3 nights. really useful but only for our IC.

the ass part of the requirement is: i can’t tell you the requirement. so you might activate it by accident. or you might not.

good luck

[Alchemist21]

Fine.

[unvote[/unvote]

I don't want to go through a ton of hassle like the Impossibear quest and then have him fuck up again though.

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

can someone run me through why Maria is scum? cos I still think Dave is scum. Maybe both, who knows?

[Alchemist21]

Oh fuck that.

VOTE: Maria

[Alchemist21]

can someone run me through why Maria is scum? cos I still think Dave is scum. Maybe both, who knows?

Maria was the only other one in the hood when they tried to track Matt. Got "No Result" on matt, who had an active ability, so per Ouroboros' role it means Maria was scum.

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

VOTE: daveasz

parking for now

[REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE]

oh that’s nice

ill MANhammer later if I see a chance

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Well MariaR getting the quest too is irrelevant since she's dying today anyway.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

My vote is going to MariaR but i wanna know everyone else's opinion on everyone else before i put my vote there.
Jungle what are your reads atm?

[Punreader]

As I had previously indicated, I hid behind Kokichi Oma.

There's one scum among MariaR/Dave

Why is almost everyone concluding that it's only

one

, when the correct answer is

both

?

VOTE: MariaR.

I will also vote for davesaz; whichever wagon is larger, because both are your remaining pun.

[Punreader]

Can you quote me where this happened?

Spoiler: I sure can!

Nero Cain/projectmatt

-

Strong Town

- Nero Cain is a weird one; I think the best way for me to read Nero Cain is that the more we disagree on things, the more he's town. And... well, I disagreed on close to everything he's said. His posts have felt icky, but... not scum-motivated icky. I think the way he entered the game and engaged with my then-strongest townread would have pinged me if he was scum. projectmatt I'm more confident about; I think the two of us are similar in how we get reads, or at least it seems that way because a lot of the thoughts he has (and I'm not counting the mechanics debate posts) just makes sense to me. Plus, the way he handled the engagement with RC's case on him felt like he was engaging a townread to try to help them refine their reads rather than just remove/deflect the scumread, if that makes sense? I don't feel like his entire approach to the game comes from scum.

Overall impression from your reads is that almost all of your strong town, off of the reasoning you have given, are slots I'd be

concerned

about. In contrast, your normal townreads look fairly likely to be accurate. I lack the information to give feedback on those below the townread line off of your one post.

Overall impression from your reads is that almost all of your strong town, off of the reasoning you have given, are slots I'd be concerned about.

Why?

Your description of their play is describing things I would immediately be severely cautious about coming from the players in question.

Kaede- IC
Jungle- Weird Joat
Wilky- Miller Slow Cop
Maria- Some Kind of Investigative
OTM- Weird RB
Tchill- Non weak hider
Us- BP Vig w/ unspecified modifier
Flipped: Ability Swapper
For setup spec reference, cause I'm gonna want pun to do the same thing when they get their ass in here.

Ankamius
Ouroboros (AnonymousGhost + RadiantCowbells)
Ramcius
Alchemist21
Dunnstral
davesaz- NEG UTIL
Kokichi Oma- Unclaimed
projectmatt- Unclaimed
Wraith- Unclaimed

Well quick analysis would be that there's probably 2-3 pun in the unclaimed with 0-1 pun in the claimed.

We have too much power claimed and a flipped scum. That means strong townreads outside of the claimed power roles are disproportionally more likely to be accurate.

Respectfully, I disagree. I strongly believe the unclaimed would contain a minimum of one pun, if not two. I would expect this game to be almost, but not quite, role madness. I'd expect 2-4 vanillas in the game total (let's say 3), including the one flipped already. Everyone else I would anticipate holding a role.

If you treat the game as role madness, you use a different metric to read game balance than a metric for a game that is predominantly vanilla. No matter which three names are pun, the game fundamentally

cannot

be predominantly vanilla. Ergo, the unclaimed aren't more cleared; they're more suspicious.

Kaede- IC
Jungle- Weird Joat
Wilky- Miller Slow Cop
Maria- Some Kind of Investigative
OTM- Weird RB
Tchill- Non weak hider
Us- BP Vig w/ unspecified modifier
Flipped: Ability Swapper
For setup spec reference, cause I'm gonna want pun to do the same thing when they get their ass in here.

Ankamius
Ouroboros (AnonymousGhost + RadiantCowbells)
Ramcius
Alchemist21
Dunnstral
davesaz- NEG UTIL
Kokichi Oma- Unclaimed
projectmatt- Unclaimed
Wraith- Unclaimed

Well quick analysis would be that there's probably 2-3 pun in the unclaimed with 0-1 pun in the claimed. My role can act as a self-protective, your role has a protective, OnTheMark's roleblock gives a third source of killstopping power. This seems reasonable from town, but I would become suspect of an additional killstopper claim.

Kaede as an IC, the ability to get a second alignment confirmation, the miller slow cop, and the investigative is a little on the heavy side in terms of investigating. It's possible there's a pun in there, but not guaranteed. I would definitely lynch in there if we had an additional investigative claim.

I'd need to see the whole set of roles in the game for more thorough analysis. It'd be Impossible before then. Do bear with me.

Extrapolating from my conclusions thusfar, it would be fair to state I would not lynch most of the claimed roles at this juncture. Outside chance of MariaR but I wouldn't be comfortable concluding that so hastily; I'm not married to the concept.

I would lynch in the unclaimed players. Off of description of play, I'm not too concerned about Wraith or Alchemist21. (I'll concoct more tangible analysis later.) I'm also not so concerned about Dunnstral. (He's a read I don't need to put much effort into before getting dun.)

Inversely, off of description of play (not to mention the D1 lynch) I would be rather concerned about Ouroboros and

projectmatt

.
I wouldn't be confident he'd flip pun, but I'd lynch Ramicus if it came to it which seems to be what you want to do anyway.

Still, these are without reading the game so we'll have to see what changes when I've actually read D1.

Dave Wraith ProjectMatt Ank RC ETL Kokichi should have all the scums I think

@Pun
What do you think is right? Wrong? And maybe?

I would off of Ankamius's description think Wraith is wrong.
I would think Dave, outside chance at Ank (otherwise a wrong), severely outside chance of ETL (most likely a wrong), and Kokichi qualify as 'Maybe'.

I wouldn't go so far as to say ProjectMatt and RC are 'right', but they are focal points of mine.

Ask me again after I read D1; it's too early to really be certain.

I'm not getting the Wilky hate. Like at all. Why in the world would scum fakeclaim miller to 1v1 a useless powerrole. Everyone on that wagon gets -10 town cred.

What does seem possible to me is that Dave fakeclaims miller and then CC'd.

vote:Dave

While the read here is understandable enough, I am tempted to Nero my vision down to a tunnel and just keep calling the slot pun.

Clarify man with no name and Ventriloquist townreads please

I also read the whole thing and I hold interest in modern reads on Ouroboros and the Nero slot and if town why.

Hmm.
In the mean time.
VOTE: projectmatt.
It matters not which of Kokichi Oma/MariaR is pun; this remains pun regardless.

However, two of the three pun are projectmatt and MariaR.
I actually want this even stronger than I want projectmatt:
VOTE: MariaR.

Actually, Maria can't be faking tracker, so keeping cards close to the chest is unimportant.

Sure, it is a given she can't be faking it. Telling the truth does not indicate her alignment is town though.

I claim in the hood with rc

I claim that 3750 is a flagrant punclaim.

VOTE: ProjectMatt
with Wraith flipping green, his Wraith defense at the end of the day looks like TMI and attempt to get town cred, he didn't tried save him, he just didn't wanted to be on ML wagon

You are not wrong.

I will vote whichever of MariaR/projectmatt has a larger wagon. If both have equal wagons, my vote defaults to MariaR.

By proxy, you may remember this is calling Kokichi town.

Summary
MariaR is in a neighborhood with Dunn and Ouroboros created by Ouroboros.
That neighborhood also controls a tracker among all of them, track target must be agreed to by majority.
If there's 1 or more scum in the hood the track will always yield "didn't visit" regardless.
MariaR claims to track matt and getting "didn't visit"
matt confirms this.
wilky claims no result and blames OTM for it.
OTM says he targeted dave.

Alternative theory tying these together. MariaR is pun, and thus, regardless of whom was tracked, the result would be "didn't visit". projectmatt was selected (Ouroboros wanted it and MariaR knowing it could create a false negative went along with this) to falsely clear him as regardless of whether he took an action or not it would always display as him having not taken one due to MariaR's alignment being pun. willky's action failed because MariaR's role provided immunity to the investigation. (Alternatively, projectmatt has a blocking role and targeted willky.)

willky, Dunnstral, and OnTheMark are all town; MariaR and projectmatt completely messed up the town's actions.

Furthermore, JUNGLE is town who made a mistake.

LEFTOVERS:

Ramcius
davesaz

STRONG PUNREADS:

MariaR
Nero Cain/projectmatt

davesaz:

When I started reading, I had foreknowledge that davesaz's miller claim was apparently retracted/changed into 'some negative utility' at a later point. This would explain his rather dodgy early actions and play, so I was willing to write it off as null. I would say that I would normally be heavily inclined to punread him otherwise. There is literally nothing town about him, but if I'm honest, the most daving thing is simply POE;

someone

has to be the fourth and I think he's the best candidate. Also, there is the chance he was in fact blocked N1.

MariaR:

My punread here is four-fold: Dodgy, sketchy play; setup speculation plus night action results; personal experience with her meta; trusting in Kokichi Oma's personal meta experience. Each of these, I can explain in detail.

MariaR is basically actively lurking through this game; she is frequently and consistently failing to provide pertinent game content and I can cite many instances including prod dodges which are absent in other games she is a player in. There's a bunch of posts I can quote but this is perhaps best done in a followthrough post as compiling the entire list here would make this post 20 times longer.

Setup speculation indicates we should have a pun in the investigative claims. We have MariaR's, we have the proven track from Ouroboros, we have wilky's delayed cop, we have Kaede's IC as conftown, we have Jungle's claimed ability to make another player's alignment revealed (even if he messed up on making it work), and in that pool you can reasonably expect there to be a pun.

It wasn't Ouroboros.
It's not Kaede.
I have townreads on wilky and Jungle.
Ergo, MariaR's role is likely a truthful investigative, just belonging to pun.

This is magnified by the outcome of events. Ouroboros just so happened to recruit MariaR at apparently the earliest opportunity. And then Ouroboros just so happened to die almost immediately after that. I feel the two events are in fact linked together. Yes, Ouroboros had other reasons to die, but I think that role contributed to it because pun knew what their role was.

My own experience with MariaR indicates this is far more likely to be her pungame than her towngame.

And then when you throw in that Kokichi Oma is perhaps the player on site I would most trust to be able to read her and he says she's pun, then I really think we should Maki this wagon happen sooner rather than later.

projectmatt:

I've been a close associate of Nero Cain's since before most of the players in this game even joined mafiascum. Over the years, I have gotten to know his play intimately. He can be aptly described as a ruder, more competent, more arrogant version of Creature.

By which, I mean, regardless of his alignment, he's going to be an ass, who presents a holier-than-thou attitude. Regardless of his alignment, his charisma is dismal. However, at his base, the same core tell always works on him regardless; when he is town, he is incredibly active to the point of being almost a spam poster, providing reads which are strong, confident, and accurate. He is in your face and always has something to say with what he says being game content rather than fluff.

When he is pun, he is a lurker. Mostly just lurking, since he does produce actual content when around (just at a far more infrequent rate), but he does a fair share of active lurking as well. I Cain tell you, having known him for the years that I have, this is squarely in the latter category. He was doing almost nothing the entire time he was around. If he were town, he'd have been all over Ventriloquist as well. His list of sins is great, and I'm not sure I can even properly describe all of them because as such a long-time associate these are things I just know rather than needing to explain to others.

I haven't gotten the chance to really read projectmatt content since then, but I wouldn't need to in order to conclude pun.

That having been said, the little content I have seen indicates pun as well. For instance, the Wraith defense at day end

did

seem like TMI, knowing he was going to flip town and hoping to earn town credit from not being on the lynch wagon.

Since this wagon is larger:
VOTE: projectmatt.

Nero was lurky as scum in Necromancer too.

As a thought experiment. Let me demonstrate to you Nero Cain's meta.
This is a list of every Large Theme Nero Cain has posted in.

This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Two pages.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Two pages.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. While not two pages, that game suffered from numerous hastened deaths; having as many posts as he does there is still impressively large.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Three pages.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Three pages.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. NINE pages. (Caveat: everyone that game had more posts than normal.)
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Three pages.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Two pages, and that's only from two gamedays.
This is just about one of the shortest towngames you'll find from Nero Cain.
This is Nero Cain's more typical iso once more as town. Three pages.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Three pages.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Short for him, I will admit.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Two pages.
This is Nero Cain's iso as a lategame replacement. Keep the timing of his replacement in mind for the amount of volume he produced.
As far as I can tell, Nero Cain was town here. Two pages.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Two pages.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Shorter than most, but still two pages.
I'm excluding this game as Nero Cain replaced in late during the day and was killed that very same night, unless anyone has objections. If you do object and wish to count it as valid, then may I continue to point out what is more typical?
Such as this Nero Cain iso as town. Three pages.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Two pages. And he only had one day phase to produce it, as he died N1.
Considering the length of the game, this is fairly short, but Nero Cain's iso as town still managed the feat.
I do confess another shorter iso would be this one as town.
I should technically mention this iso here as well is short, but for good reason; note the V/LA which led to him being replaced. To offset that,
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Four pages.
This is a shorter Nero Cain iso as town. It is shorter because they died N1, yet still managed over a hundred posts.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Three pages.
I am fairly certain Nero Cain is Gollum and thus this is his iso as town. Shorter at two pages, but still broke the barrier.
If Nero Cain is Gollum, This is his iso as town. Two pages, and he died N1 no less.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Two pages, so a bit short given the duration he was alive.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Two pages, so a bit short given the duration he was alive.
This is Nero Cain's iso as town. Four pages.

This is Nero Cain's iso as pun.
This is Nero Cain's iso as pun. Multiball, to boot. Yet he still didn't post much comparatively speaking.
This is Nero Cain as pun doing respectably well. And it spanned the entire game (he was the last pun alive).
This is a little bit longer an iso from Nero Cain as pun yet he still didn't breach the two-page barrier.
This is the one and only example of Nero Cain breaching the barrier as pun I can find. If I had to suspect, multiball may play a part.
This is Nero Cain as pun across multiple day phases with a hydra partner still failing to breach the barrier.
This is Nero Cain as the last surviving pun coming close but still failing.
This is Nero Cain's iso as pun.
Nero Cain did breach the barrier in this game as pun, but it is noteworthy that game was multiball which I again suspect played a part.
This is Nero Cain's iso as pun.
So this game featured cultafia and thus I'm not sure if he started as town or not, and he did request replacement, but all the same I thought I would mention this Nero Cain iso as pun.

Not mentioned because I know he was in the game as a hydra but I don't know what his account name was: this game.

That is five years' worth of meta on Nero Cain for Large Themes.

Five years

, the last five years, 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014, and 2013 (which I didn't go back to the beginning of the year on, just up until the beginning of March 2013).

Can Nero Cain's activity tell in of itself guarantee his alignment? No, it cannot; there are outliers as town where he produced less content and outliers as pun where he produced more. But it is one of the most solid tells you can have on site. If you doubt the tell, try checking out the towngames I am linking to and compare them to the pungames I am linking to.

This is thoroughly his punplay.

And as projectmatt inherited the slot, he is pun.

I've mentioned this before in other games, but I haven't been keeping solid track on who I've seen as scum and who I haven't. So I don't know if I have seen Nero lurk as scum.
I can say conclusively that the argumentative and pushy Nero that I've seen as town was not present in this game. And Projectmatt's posting hasn't struck me as town.

I would be willing to accept a Projectmatt lynch if necessary, but would prefer that we resolve Jungle. If we allow scum!Jungle to push another fruitless outlandish quest on town it might damage us beyond repair. Am I wrong to think it's within the mod's range to include something tantalizing as a way to punish a greedy town? In the unlikely event Jungle is really town, it would be bad to lose the potential upside, but I can't see the game being designed so that town needs the quest to win. Furthermore if Jungle is town and the quest is powerful, why would scum leave the quest giver alive?

"I'm not going to lynch pun #1 in spite of acknowledging the evidence against him".

Regarding Maria, I know we can count on RC to have invited another member to the neighborhood. We can hope that at least one of them is town. If the neighborhood generates a track result on someone who visits, it yields two conf or a town/scum dipole. I think we wait on her to see what results there are, if any.

"I'm not going to lynch pun #2 on the basis of role-related reasons; we should wait for her to produce conftown in spite of me having just said we should not allow JUNGLE to produce results". (Hello, hypocrite.)

I know you're IC and all, but nice job on Wraith there. I never did get the explanation that I wanted on that. IC's wanting to lynch obvtown is sadly a thing.

This is the absolute most pro-pun thing a player can do to a person that is conftown; he is attempting to discredit Kaede's push/content now off of Kaede's push yesterday when

Kaede wasn't even the main pusher of the Wraith lynch

.

Did I say davesaz was in a special punread category?

My mistake.

He is in the strong punreads category with MariaR and projectmatt.

>when your 2 sr's are the biggest wagon
it's Christmas time to see who I can lynch first

And yet you vote neither.

Pun, do you have experience with projectmatt?

Enough to say he is one of the most underrated pun players on the site. He has an elite pungame which consistently performs quite well, yet almost nobody seems to be aware of this. I would attribute it at least in part to not being able to strongly differentiate between his towngame and his pungame.

His pungame is almost identical to his towngame in my experience, making it difficult to distinguish between the two. Yet he is an incredibly

good

town player, which translates into extreme hesitance to lynch him when he is pun because he is a master of making it look like he is a good town player when he is pun.

This doesn't mean it is impossible to read him, of course. I acknowledge I personally hold little ability to tell the difference and that he is incredibly competent as either alignment. This is one of the main reasons why I am adamant you not trust him and ignore that he replaced Nero Cain. Nero had strong evidence which suggested overwhelmingly he was far more likely to be pun than town, and projectmatt regardless of his alignment was going to make people like him because

that's just what he does

.

requoting in case pun missed it.

I didn't, but I indicated why looking won't be of use already:

Pun, do you have experience with projectmatt?

Enough to say he is one of the most underrated pun players on the site. He has an elite pungame which consistently performs quite well, yet almost nobody seems to be aware of this. I would attribute it at least in part to not being able to strongly differentiate between his towngame and his pungame.

His pungame is almost identical to his towngame in my experience, making it difficult to distinguish between the two. Yet he is an incredibly

good

town player, which translates into extreme hesitance to lynch him when he is pun because he is a master of making it look like he is a good town player when he is pun.

This doesn't mean it is impossible to read him, of course. I acknowledge I personally hold little ability to tell the difference and that he is incredibly competent as either alignment. This is one of the main reasons why I am adamant you not trust him, and not ignore that he replaced Nero Cain. Nero had strong evidence which suggested overwhelmingly he was far more likely to be pun than town, and projectmatt regardless of his alignment was going to make people like him because

that's just what he does

.

I already know that regardless of your alignment you will produce content which looks good and I acknowledge I personally have little ability to distinguish between good-town and good-pun. That is one of the reasons I am using the more reliable metric of Nero's content.

also pun, have you played with me on mafiascum or on another mafia website? i'm genuinely curious, just because i don't play here that often.

Both. I believe you originated from EpicMafia, yes? (I could be misremembering my scummer history there, but I seem to distinctly recall you were a prominent player there back in the day.) Additionally, we may have had one or two games on some other site beyond there, but if so I wouldn't recall the specifics.

I already said I agree with a projectmatt lynch, if that is where consensus lies.

That is where the consensus lies. Why isn't your vote there?

Partner is dave k choo choo I'm busy hurry up

The hilarious part is, she can say this truthfully in more than one way.

I'm concerned that pmatt's emotion the last few pages is looking like town frustration, and I can't tell if it's real or faked. Can you?

Why are the options "real and town" or "faked and pun"? projectmatt is in a situation which is frustrating regardless of his alignment; as a result, I treat the frustration as not having one.

I feel perhaps my snark weakens the strength of my point. So to reiterate,

If we allow scum!Jungle to push another fruitless outlandish quest on town it might damage us beyond repair. Am I wrong to think it's within the mod's range to include something tantalizing as a way to punish a greedy town? In the unlikely event Jungle is really town, it would be bad to lose the potential upside, but I can't see the game being designed so that town needs the quest to win. Furthermore if Jungle is town and the quest is powerful, why would scum leave the quest giver alive?

Regarding Maria, I know we can count on RC to have invited another member to the neighborhood. We can hope that at least one of them is town. If the neighborhood generates a track result on someone who visits, it yields two conf or a town/scum dipole. I think we wait on her to see what results there are, if any.

What differentiates these two, davesaz?

You are saying to lynch Jungle on the possibility his role may damage us; you are willing to sacrifice the utility of his ability.

You are saying to not lynch Maria on the possibility her role may help us; you are not willing to sacrifice the utility of her ability.

Care to offer an explanation?

You have said you'd vote projectmatt

yet your vote is still not on him

. You have said to spare MariaR off of role reasons and yet to not spare JUNGLE off of role reasons

yet not differentiated between the two

.

hm
I'm actually not sure how to take that claim

At absolute best that's a nullclaim.

In all probability it is a punclaim.

Want to know why Nero didn't act?

Because Nero did act.

He was around all of N1.
Nero does not forget to submit night actions.
I have known him long enough to know that

he would policy lynch anyone claiming to have forgotten to submit their night action

.

Punreader: I want your thoughts on these deductions at your next convenience.

If you think people are being cleared for mechanical reasons, sorry to disappoint. My read on wilky is play-based, not role-based; my read on Impossibear may be influenced by role but still has a basis in play;

I am punreading matt, davesaz, and MariaR in spite of the role-based reasons to let them go

; I have a play-based townread on REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE which gets stronger by the day; I have a lock-solid townread on OnTheMark separate from role-based reasons, revolving around play; Alchemist21 was already a strong townread without taking role into account.

Did I miss any roles?

Because if you want me to go over the play-based reasons for those townreads and punreads I can do so again.

Bonus: most (but not all) of my case for MariaR being pun included, as well as about half (but not all) of my reasons for davesaz being pun.

[OnTheMark]

...legit frustrated.

Jungle is scum.

If we trigger the requirement Kaede = commuter = good so yay! Why would you not tell us?

[OnTheMark]

That’s why rc had to be killed obv... and impossibear must have been n1 attempt. If Maria town then otm scum qed.

Petit no the result is for before. New member does not vote on that night target.

No this is not a thing. Lol

Dave and Jungle fuck :/