Gerrymandering Shadow Government Democracy Mafia Endgame

[mutantdevle]

THIS IS MY FIRST FIRST

[mutantdevle]

Announce Candidacy!

for the

mutante

party :3

<3 <3 <3

?

[mutantdevle]

HURT: mutantdevle

:O

[mutantdevle]

Ausuka may I just ask why you are already plotting my assassination?

[mutantdevle]

I don't know about the rest of these candidates, but here at the mutante party we don't have our leader dictate the lynch.

[mutantdevle]

Mutant-kun, why declare a party right now? Tome thou dost not SEEM to be the type whom does this without thinking about the circumstances or OFFERING thoughts on the setup. Is this time JUST different or is my characterization of you INACURA?

I too had always planned to start a party when reading the setup.

The reasons why I came to that conclusion I will explain later because I want to see if others see what I see or if they are just signing up as a candidate for fun. Once everyone has made it clear whether or not they intend to start their own party or join someone else's, and once most other people have explained their reasoning to do so, I will explain my own reasoning.

[mutantdevle]

I don't know about the rest of these candidates, but here at the mutante party we don't have our leader dictate the lynch.

lol

"hey guys, let's join P.R.I.C.K.S., it'll help town!"

Please do not view me as your competition. If you are town, we share a common objective. Hence you are my equal, not my foe. The worst thing we could do as party leaders is fight each other as, at the end of the day, we are still town vs scum, not party vs party!

[mutantdevle]

I don't know about the rest of these candidates, but here at the mutante party we don't have our leader dictate the lynch.

lol

"hey guys, let's join P.R.I.C.K.S., it'll help town!"

Please do not view me as your competition. If you are town, we share a common objective. Hence you are my equal, not my foe. The worst thing we could do as party leaders is fight each other as, at the end of the day, we are still town vs scum, not party vs party!

wait do you even get what i was saying there

if not then whats with the response

I interpreted your post as shading me by trying to say that all I'm trying to say is that my party will simply help the town. In general, you feel like someone who is threatened by other parties and intends to shut them down. I took this moment to explain how I don't think people directly competing to obtain power is going to be helpful at all. Overall, this game isn't about whose party gets elected. It's about getting scum. To tear the town apart through the competition of elections is exactly what scum will want to happen as it will only result in people lynching their 'political opponents' which is probably other townies.

[mutantdevle]

Invisibility townreading me would be a GOOD reason to join my party ^_^

My impression of Invisibility would be that they wouldn't do this anyway but I'd just like to advise against being so quick to join or leave a party. This is less relevant to today but, since you only get to change party once per day, players should be certain when doing so.

[mutantdevle]

in this case i think you're a wolf anyways

Most people say something like this when they encounter me for the first time ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Give me time, you'll see the town in me eventually.

[mutantdevle]

pedit: are you cognizant of whom ruby-Chan IS...

I am not.

[mutantdevle]

have you ever said this as wolf

Probably, I will check though.

Do you want me to link you my scum games?

[mutantdevle]

have you ever said this as wolf

Probably, I will check though.

Do you want me to link you my scum games?

Okay yeah, in my most recent scum game I can already see I said that I get townier the longer I live a fair bit. It's true though. You know I'm scum when I don't - as I didn't that game.

[mutantdevle]

And...

Stop.

This whole voting system is manipulative, and slanted in the favour of mafia. The strength of the town is coordination.

These are the(town imposed) rules we should play with:

1.We publicly decide on a candidate to be voted upon all by majority vote.

(remember we don't need to vote for someone who actually is in campaign mode)
2.No one diverts from the candidate appointed by majority vote. Doing so is a claim that your vote(in your district) came from scum.
3.No one votes twice. Voting twice is a claim that these excess votes came from scum.
4.After the candidate is selected, we all discuss who shall be lynched. We will again decide by majority - unless the candidate is confirmed town.
5.If the president mislynches someone who was not selected they are scum.
6.Scum due to 1-5 and 7-8 must be lynched first. Only exceptions are guilty results.
7.An unconfirmed President who declines to lynch scum is scum.
8.False roleclaims and fake results come only from scum.

I like this idea in concept but I have my doubts that it is practical. From my experience, calling town to band together like this doesn't work (this experience being my last large theme which was rocky horror picture show).

The main problem with this plan is that not many people like having restrictions placed upon them. They enjoy their freedom, they like being able to do what they want to do. This is an issue for this plan as so much as a single townie deviating from it ruins the whole thing. It's all well and good deciding by majority who to be president before the actual voting, but if anyone strongly believes the person we just voted as majority is scum then they're not going to want to follow through with it.

I think many people are overlooking one thing that this plan fixes though:

all mafia essentially have a double vote.

The mafia can punish the town for vote fraud but, as far as we know, we can't do anything to punish them. I'm sure we probably have a PR that does this job though but any scum with a hint of confidence are going to be heavily influencing every election.

I would also like to highlight how being voted as president doesn't mean you get to pick the lynch. In my opinion, the president's job is just to deliver the hammer verdict. Before this, discussion must be had to decide on who the town majoritively wants lynched. Once this is decided, the president should announce intent to lynch to give the target time to claim.

[mutantdevle]

Ruby is it possible you could explain any more as to why you want to be president (if there is any more to be said) and what you would do with the power?

[mutantdevle]

Please don't just answer "lynch scum"

[mutantdevle]

I feel like I know you already :3

[mutantdevle]

did you expect me to say "id hammer someone instantly" or something

Not going to lie I did get this vibe from your earlier posts.

I'm sure you're more competent than that but I get paranoid easily :/

[mutantdevle]

i would talk things out with the people in my party and then cast the vote

Personally, I would never limit the people who have a say in the lynch to just those in my party. I don't see anything to suggest that those who join me would be more likely to be town than those who didn't. By keeping the lynch discussion open to everybody it takes into account more reads which means more association tells and, in my opinion, a likely more on target lynch.

[mutantdevle]

I don't see much advantage in trying as hard as we can to make this a normal game of mafia with inconvenient lynching mechanics. I also don't see how electing obvtown and letting them kill without mafia evidence is worse than letting mafia vote and influence our lynch. Obviously we still do discussion as normal, just with the absence of voting for a lynch.

what does this mean btw?

I think we should elect obvtown and let them have authority over the lynch, taking non-binding advice from the other players.

I think having any 1 person deciding the lynch is fundamentally a bad idea. There is no

gurantee

that this 'obvious townie' isn't just a deep wolf and this policy just enables them to have their way with the lynch. Besides, being obviously townie =!= good reads. I do think we should be voting people based on how townie they are rather than the strength of their reads though.

[mutantdevle]

@Aronis, would you say that your own reads are typically bad?

Because I'm bad at reading players.
I'm pretty sure Nico is bad at reading players.

So if you are also typically bad with your reads, then I think we found the reason for why us 3 are in central park.

And that would tell us that scum is more likely to be within the players that know the 3 of us.

[mutantdevle]

Yo so I'm fairly certain I could probably pull some information out of the district arrangement because I like to setup spec and stuff. My problem is, I don't have the meta-knowledge of everyone to do that effectively. So I'd like to request 2 things:

First of all,

@everyone

please provide a list of everyone on this player list and specify if {You've never played with them before | You've played with them once | You've played with them multiple times | You've hosted a game they were in}

From that information, I'd hope to extract which players are likely to have been placed randomly and which were probably placed methodologically.


Secondly, if anyone is either hugely familiar with everyone here OR is really good at meta diving, I'd really appreciate their help in finding specific information about people.


I'm finally finishing my coursework for college soon but after that is finished I will focus on trying to narrow down the lynch pool by looking at the district placements and meta diving people's relationships with each other. I will record my theorising in my party PT and publically post what I think is necessary.

[mutantdevle]

For the record, if I am killed for my theorising, then the scum team definitely knows me.

[mutantdevle]

I think there's a very reasonable chance we have at least 1 all-town group of 3. And to me the placement is all WIFOM because the mafia control it. Like, mafia could have put most of their members in New York or Theme Park to spread WIFOM and/or get a guaranteed Mafia-controlled seat. Or they could have put 2-3 members in a group of 3. There's no way to tell and that's why I don't think we should do speculation on that- I think just regular scumhunting will end up being a lot more productive.

For you there may be no way to tell, but I like to think my specialism in mafia is setup spec so I'm confident I can pull something from it (I don't expect to get a solve by any means, but I'm sure I can get to the point where I can find partners after a flip). I do agree that scumhunting will be a lot more productive for most people, but I'm not most people. My reads are horseshit and so is my ability to effectively scum hunt. So my personal time is definitely better spent on this - even if I find nothing this activity will help me to grow as a player who uses setup spec to game solve and I feel like there's not enough people like that on this site.

But like I say, I'll keep track of everything in my party PT so as to not clutter the thread as I do expect most of what I look into to be useless (As most of it will be things like "if X is scum then why is Y placed here?").

[mutantdevle]

Mutant ill join your party if you endorse me for pres.

I think your town and I want to make a party that is a pure masonry.

Sure, you can be temporary president for days 90 to 96. Then on day 97 you gotta endorse me back. Sound good?

[mutantdevle]

question for parties: will you be fixed on one president or will you change your representative?

I'm highly unlikely to change representatives of my own party.

[mutantdevle]

Mutant ill join your party if you endorse me for pres.

I think your town and I want to make a party that is a pure masonry.

Sure, you can be temporary president for days 90 to 96. Then on day 97 you gotta endorse me back. Sound good?

Mutant a good president should not negotiate with terrorists and his reads are a true terror

Where's your mind @?

I plan to decommission my party on day 89.

[mutantdevle]

Assume I haven't read the mechanics poet (you would be half correct), and we're just playing normal mafia. What's going on in that red pointy head?

Inside my head is a series of light bulbs, random green numbers rapidly changing, and placing pins into boards with red string attached to them to link things.

[mutantdevle]

@123456789 I missed the 2 in your name when I recorded who you've played with before in my PT

[mutantdevle]

I endorse you, but not as leader of my party.

Get your own party!

[mutantdevle]

Umm, why?

[mutantdevle]

OMG mutant did you use mechanics to advertise your game

No .


I mean, clearly no one wants to join my party. And I get to use this ability every 36 hours. With nothing else to say, why not?

[mutantdevle]

Also, just saying, I'm not okay with 'disqualifying' anyone.

[mutantdevle]

Like, if you don't want someone to be president... maybe just don't vote for them?

[mutantdevle]

Im claming masons with mylo

Is this a joke?

Because I don't see why you'd randomly claim that...

[mutantdevle]

I reserve my right to heavily doubt your claim until mylo confirms it.

[mutantdevle]

@SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis, NicoRobin, Firebringer, Iconeum, ArcAngel9, Myloninja13, Wraith, Nosferatu, Purrcocet, Aronis, Ruby Red, Tazaro, Whemestar:

First of all,

@everyone

please provide a list of everyone on this player list and specify if {You've never played with them before | You've played with them once | You've played with them multiple times | You've hosted a game they were in}

[mutantdevle]

@Aronis

@Aronis

, would you say that your own reads are typically bad?

Because I'm bad at reading players.
I'm pretty sure Nico is bad at reading players.

So if you are also typically bad with your reads, then I think we found the reason for why us 3 are in central park.

And that would tell us that scum is more likely to be within the players that know the 3 of us.

[mutantdevle]

8. In 222:

DO YOU LIKE PUZZLES?

Do you like gaining PRs as the game goes on rather than losing them?

Which party sent this post? Was it poop posting party?

9. In 240:

I mean, clearly no one wants to join my party. And I get to use this ability every 36 hours. With nothing else to say, why not?

Did you send 222? I don't see the connection to your party ideals, but whatever...

I honestly don't understand the confusion here. The post advertises a game I'm going to be hosting. Obviously, I sent it. It also obviously has nothing to do with my party ideas and nothing to do with this game. I literally say why I sent it in the post you quote.

I don't get why you are trying to get something out of it?

[mutantdevle]

@SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis, NicoRobin, Firebringer, Iconeum, ArcAngel9, Myloninja13, Wraith, Nosferatu, Purrcocet, Aronis, Ruby Red, Tazaro, Whemestar:

First of all,

@everyone

please provide a list of everyone on this player list and specify if {You've never played with them before | You've played with them once | You've played with them multiple times | You've hosted a game they were in}

also why are we doing this exactly

So I can get who knows who. The mafia had to put people into districts, they'd choose who goes where based on what they know about people. Players they don't know they'll place randomly (probably in the big clumps of players). By knowing who knows who, we can better work out who the mafia could be based on the district placements or why people are placed where they are.

[mutantdevle]

@Aronis

@Aronis

, would you say that your own reads are typically bad?

Because I'm bad at reading players.
I'm pretty sure Nico is bad at reading players.

So if you are also typically bad with your reads, then I think we found the reason for why us 3 are in central park.

And that would tell us that scum is more likely to be within the players that know the 3 of us.

I'm kind of a brick head when it comes to reading people tbh. Sometimes I try, but meh, I don't have much success

As I thought. Pretty sure Central Park is the dump for those of use with bad reads :3

[mutantdevle]

I’ve played with you once NicoRobin!

Could you maybe give a full list of the players you played with? That would be great.


Could you also like, maybe, confirm or deny Wheme's mason claim??


Like seriously Mylo you're clearly reading the game so why aren't you engaging?

[mutantdevle]

Anyone not joining the party of claimed masons is a scum claim

Pretty sure you are town fake claiming mason just to get people to join your party and vote for you.

Which means, yeah sure, you're probably town... but does anyone here actually trust you to decide a lynch?

[mutantdevle]

How do I join whemestar party

Bold join shit posting party

Joining Shit Posting Party

@SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis, NicoRobin, Firebringer, Iconeum, ArcAngel9, Myloninja13, Wraith, Nosferatu, Purrcocet, Aronis, Ruby Red, Tazaro, Whemestar:

First of all,

@everyone

please provide a list of everyone on this player list and specify if {You've never played with them before | You've played with them once | You've played with them multiple times | You've hosted a game they were in}

no

Why not?

What do you lose my simply not telling me who you've played with before?

[mutantdevle]

id rather not

Like I said to firebringer, why not?

Town don't lose anything by telling me who they've played with before, regardless of my alignment.

Scum, however, have reason to hide their associations so that we can't tell who placed who in what district.

[mutantdevle]

Tbh, I kinda wish my district name wasn't 'New York' lol.

A change has been made to the districts! The district previously known as "New York" is now "Turns out I'm an idiot lol."

Central Park

Aronis
NicoRobin
mutantdevle

Mayfair Club

FIGHTING DREAMERS (the worst / SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis hydra)
123456789
Ruby Red

Turns out I'm an idiot lol.

Edosurist
Tazaro
Hebichan
Myloninja13
Ruby Red

Coney Island

Invisibility
ArcAngel9
Iconeum

Theme Park

Not Known 15
Ausuka
Firebringer
Whemestar
Blind Bandits (Nosferatu / Purrcocet hydra)
Wraith

:thniking:

Nothing else changed in this list.

I'm assuming someone has a vanilla-esque PR that simply allows them to change the name of districts?

@Mod:

did you name the districts originally?

If it turns out that mafia named them then I guess that tells us something about them.

[mutantdevle]

i think mutantducky is scum lol

Okay yeah but could you like give me a list of everyone on this player list and specify if {You've never played with them before | You've played with them once | You've played with them multiple times | You've hosted a game they were in}?

[mutantdevle]

If ircher keeps posting the way he has, I might have an anureysm

I might have an aneurysm if you don't answer my question.

[mutantdevle]

If ircher keeps posting the way he has, I might have an anureysm

I might have an aneurysm if you don't answer my question.

No, ur question is pointless

The question I was referring to was the one where I ask you why you won't say who you've played with in the past but I guess this answers it.

Knowing who you've played with in the past is NOT pointless. I will be using the information to help find scum based on district placement. This kind of information is extremely valuable late game when we've had a few flips and PoE is strong.

It takes literally like no effort from you to provide this information. Refusing to do so is anti-town and a bit of a dick move.

[mutantdevle]

Yes it does...


The mafia was tasked with placing each of us into districts. Assuming they didn't just go "fuck it, let's just place these randomly", they would have thought about where and why they were placing each person. Given that 3 of the districts have 3 people in and specifically the district I'm in contains 3 people who don't tend to have many good reads, we can probably assume the mafia have thought about it. Mafia would be placing these people based on how they think they're going to vote. The players in smaller district's votes mean more than players in larger districts. So naturally, they are going to want people with worse reads in smaller districts.

So with shitter players in smaller districts, we must ask ourselves: "how do the mafia know these people have bad reads and hence less likely do damage to them even with a more powerful vote?". The answer is simple, they know us. They've played games with us and seen our reads be bad. Obviously, the mafia probably isn't going to know everyone. So some people will be placed randomly. If we can figure out who was placed randomly and who was placed because the mafia know them then we can potentially work backwards and see who the mafia are simply by seeing who knows who.

For example, if player X was placed in district 1 simply because their reads are bad, and player Y is the only person who knows player X, then we know that player Y must be mafia. Of course, the reality is not that simple and is actually far more complex. But by knowing these associations we can better work out the logic behind the district placements. But if we get so much as 1 mafia flip then we can instantly say that the players they have played with before probably weren't placed randomly.

By not telling us who you've played with before, you are actually also being quite scummy. Because it means we can't link any district placements back to you. These links can be used to either incriminate you if you are scum or potentially clear your name if you are town. The longer people delay in giving me this information the longer it's going to take for me to draw any conclusions. If you don't give me a list of who you've played with before, I'm just going to have to get the information myself by doing a more extensive meta dive of you than any other player. If you're town then please don't subject me to that because it's just a waste of my time looking into every single one of the playlists of your past games just to see who you've played with before when you can give me the same information in a post it takes you 2 minutes to write.

[mutantdevle]

Anyone whos joined fighting dreamers party please explain why as they are obvious scum.

Mutant please disband your party and jion mine your obvious town.

Yeah, I get it. Now shut up and go away. I'm sticking to my party. If nothing else, I need the PT to document my thoughts and I'm using it to work stuff out about the districts.

[mutantdevle]

So naturally, they are going to want people with worse reads in smaller districts.

I disagree considering that Fighting Dreamers, Ruby Red, and I are all in the same Mayfair Club district. I think most of us agree that Fighting Dreamers is pretty good as town and the same can probably be said about Ruby Red as well. Whether or not you think I am a good player, that is definitely up to debate, but I think the Mayfair Club composition kinda debunks the theory that the players with worse reads are in the smaller districts.

The worst players in smaller districts is a general rule of thumb. There are MANY reasons they would put 3 people together such as hoping their votes would disagree with each other, wifom, or just generally don't know you. I'm not treating 'bad reads = small district' as a unbreakable law. The point is still that by knowing who knows who we can better understand the placement of the districts, especially late game.

[mutantdevle]

So naturally, they are going to want people with worse reads in smaller districts.

I disagree considering that Fighting Dreamers, Ruby Red, and I are all in the same Mayfair Club district. I think most of us agree that Fighting Dreamers is pretty good as town and the same can probably be said about Ruby Red as well. Whether or not you think I am a good player, that is definitely up to debate, but I think the Mayfair Club composition kinda debunks the theory that the players with worse reads are in the smaller districts.

it could be because scum expects us both to run for pres and so that creates tension between us

it could be because theyre scum and wanted to guarantee a district for themselves and not me

it could be for any number of completely speculative reasons

its probably a waste of time to talk about rn

This is a better way of phrasing my last post :3

[mutantdevle]

doesnt mutants plan also assume that like one person did all of the placements

im assuming that the scumteam worked together on the placements and it wasn't just one person so it doesn't seem like knowing who knows who could actually help when it came from a combination of people

If you don't think I'm factoring in that it's a joint decision then you're wrong

I'm not just doing the who knows who alone. There are MANY other factors. Eg. they are a team, they may research the players they don't know.

My approach will be very much trial and error. Eg. "if these 3 are the scum team then does the district placement make sense".

[mutantdevle]

Yes it does...

No it doesn’t

And also instead of writing up this whole post you could have researched the answer.
In fact most people already answered for you on how much experience they had with me.

Well thanks for unnecessarily being a dick

Regardless of my alignment, regardless of whether or not

you

think it's useful, the effort it takes for you to simply provide a list of who you've played games with is minuscule compared to the time I now have to spend going through all your past games just to see who you have or haven't played with. I don't know why, but this pisses me off so much. Setup spec like this isn't exactly a time efficient thing. I'm going to have to wade through a lot of shit and bring up very few conclusions compared to the amount of time I'll spend doing so. People like you don't help. I don't exactly have a lot of time on my hands. I'm under a lot of pressure from college work doing a lot of typing, countless all-nighters over the last few months, I'd appreciate a break here and there. Not only are you making me waste time with this stunt but you've also tainted my research into you because I'm so biased against you now. You've pissed me off so much that I'm now legitimately hoping you are scum just so I can get your ass lynched. The fact that you've not even considered any of my points, you've just written them off like their nothing, the cheek you have to say that instead of writing that I could have been looking into you as though the amount of time doing each even compares. Especially since none of this time back and forth would have even spent if you'd just fucking give a simple list. The ignorance you have, the laziness in saying that everyone else will just provide your relations for you. There's a thing called cross-checking you know? There have already been a few inconsistencies in the claims that I plan to bring up once I've had everyone's. Just honestly fuck you and don't expect me to cooperate with anything you say or do this game.

[mutantdevle]

Like, I don’t understand what you’re problem is. Most of the people who have provided lists don’t even fucking town read me so god knows what they think I’m doing with this information - I’m sure they have no faith in my ability to pull anything from it either. But they’re still giving lists, why are you exempt?

[mutantdevle]

I am / was somewhat looking forward to game solving and getting stuck into this too but your actions demotivate me and I need to try and not let that get to me because then that just lets everyone else down even if they’re not expecting anything out of me. And I was looking forward to playing with you too because I’ve seen you around the forums and you seem like a cool person but that’s not what I’m getting from you now.

[mutantdevle]

What’s stressing you out in college?

I love my course and all but there’s A LOT of typing involved and it’s time consuming and I regularly sacrifice sleep for it and mafia is supposed to be a break from that stress as I find these kinds of things fun but when you’re creating problems for me that shouldn’t be problems that makes me mad because it literally requires no effort from you.

[mutantdevle]

My college course is 100% course work based so there’s a lot of write up involved. We have to annotate basically everything and I like to do these things to a high standard. 1000 words a day is basically the minimum for that and mafia helps being in the habit of typing a lot.

My college life isn’t exactly what’s important or relevant here though. So please don’t talk to me unless you’re willing to post a simple list.

[mutantdevle]

That’s nice, not sure what your studying but that’s cool ur getting into good habits.
What do you love about what you study?

This is very mafia related too btw

I study games development. I love it because it’s my dream career which is why I’m so passionate about it and willing to put so much into it. Not everyone is able to achieve their dreams and very few people get the job they want and just settle for something to pay their bills so the fact that it’s well within my grasp is something I don’t want to let go of.

If I keep answering your questions will you answers mine?

Thanks for cheering me up a bit though because i was really pissed of earlier and I’ve calmed down a fair bit now. I need to be getting to sleep now though because I have to wake up for college in 6 hours and I really want more than a rushed half an hour to get ready in.

[mutantdevle]

In this instance it's TvS and you're scum. I'm not saying it's always like that.

And ffs lie detectors are in like 1/50 games. Stop acting like thats a plausible reason for those dumb posts. Besides you don't need to have the mod post that if you're just doing it for a lie detector. It's an attempt by scum to confuse a poor lost townie into thinking they're an IC and I will not stand for that trickery

I just did it because I was told to and I'm obedient.

[mutantdevle]

In this instance it's TvS and you're scum. I'm not saying it's always like that.

And ffs lie detectors are in like 1/50 games. Stop acting like thats a plausible reason for those dumb posts. Besides you don't need to have the mod post that if you're just doing it for a lie detector. It's an attempt by scum to confuse a poor lost townie into thinking they're an IC and I will not stand for that trickery

I just did it because I was told to and I'm obedient.

Tbh I feel like you're the Jim Gilmore of this election. You're pulling in no votes, nobody wants to debate you, and when I Google you I have to scroll to the bottom of the second page to find anything about you because you're that irrelevant. yet you're still around and running long past when you should've been.

Tldr I don't care

What actually comes up when you Google "mutantdevle"? Because I see various different accounts I've created on different things over the years. If so, your analogy/metaphor doesn't work.

But as I've said multiple times, my party PT contains / will contain my documentation and working towards the district placements. I'm not losing it. Plus, I like the ability to make crier posts. So shush you. You'd understand if you had your own shiny PT and crier ability.

[mutantdevle]

Personally, I'd encourage anyone who doesn't like any of the current parties to form their own. Not for campaigning though.

2 benefits I can list off the top of my head is that you get a PT to document your thoughts and if any PRs decide to out information using the crier ability then the more party leaders we have the harder it will be for scum to work out who sent it.

[mutantdevle]

@Iconeum, skitter30 and Arons

, I suggest that if none of you are planning on joining any other party then you should all make your own.

[mutantdevle]

Integrate the letter 'i' where appropriate in my above post.

[mutantdevle]

like a lonely party or all three together?

3 individual solo parties.

[mutantdevle]

like a lonely party or all three together?

3 individual solo parties.

why

2 benefits I can list off the top of my head is that you get a PT to document your thoughts and if any PRs decide to out information using the crier ability then the more party leaders we have the harder it will be for scum to work out who sent it.

[mutantdevle]

Duckling, ruby, mutant, any of you guys on now?

Nope.

I am now though.

[mutantdevle]

I think I have a pretty good handle on my read of you; I'm pretty sure you're town, basing it off of splatoon. Like even this last post I just can't imagine you making as scum given that you basically lurked your way through splatoon and only posted a bit when heavily prodded by other players and the mod. You just feel a lot more *present* here than there and it just feels totally different. Like I just dont' see splatoon!you lol-changing the name of the district like that.

I want to talk to those three because I'm trying to decide whose party I should support. I townread mutant the most but I don't think he wins president here like ever; not sure if I should take his advice to start my own party.

I kinda townread ruby's opening because I'm pretty sure she doesn't start the game like that as scum but I'm a bit concerned that she hasn't been around that much since then, and that I don't really have a good feel for who her scumreads are; given that she's running on 'lynch scum day 1' I'm not sure that's a good sign. And like I literally never read her right.

I'm tending towards the duckling hydra since I like their party tenants and I think they're competant and I like that they'll take input from everyone. I don't have such a good read on them now, but I think I can get a feel for the duckling somewhat if I interact with him, which is why I wanted to know if he's online.

If you wanna join my party all that's in it for you is seeing what I've done so far in regards to the district placement and if you stay then you get to see how that progresses and maybe I'll share some of my private thoughts with you.

But other than that, I think you should either join SASKE & the worst or form your own party. Ruby's party's only appeal is a promise they have no realistic way of guaranteeing the delivery of, and that makes me not trust it.

[mutantdevle]

You should vote for me. I will ensure maximum partipiciants for all decisions and will ask everyone to give their - reasoned thoughts on lynch candidates. I will not quickhammer. I actually have given you these assurances so you can be sure that I will not do something like that. For the others... you don't have those assurances.

Pretty sure every party except the shitposting party has said that but okay.

[mutantdevle]

I think that realistically you aren't being president this phase so I'd rather vote someone I think can win and who I think will be competant and inclusive when deciding who to hammer

Joining someone's party doesn't mean you have to vote for them. You're welcome to join my party but vote for someone more likely be elected if you want

[mutantdevle]

If I had to vote for a party that wasn't mine, gun to head. I'd pick wheme.

I townread him, even if his party is pretty useless.

I'd argue that voting for wheme's party is fundamentally dangerous since he is the most likely to just fuck everything and lynch without warning.

[mutantdevle]

If I had to vote for a party that wasn't mine, gun to head. I'd pick wheme.

I townread him, even if his party is pretty useless.

I'd argue that voting for wheme's party is fundamentally dangerous since he is the most likely to just fuck everything and lynch without warning.

I mean, I town read him too. But voting someone I think is town doesn't mean shit if it enables the possibility that he just kills a strong PR.

[mutantdevle]

I voted skitter

[mutantdevle]

There's no good reason to keep our votes secret after the totals are released, right? If not just a way to hold people accountable, it's probably the closest thing we've got to VCA.

Except scum can just lie

If they do that we can simply look at how the votes don't reflect what's been claimed. If I'm thinking about this correctly, we'll be able to narrow down who lied to the specific district they are in. That's super valuable information. Scum aren't stupid enough to give us that level of info. Furthermore, by outing our votes it reduces the chance that scum will double vote. Because if they do, we can see which districts have unclaimed votes and know scum are in those districts.

That's assuming I'm understanding the mechanics correctly.

I'd like to think we could have everyone announce their vote before the results are revealed to minimise scum's ability to lie. But I guess that's an unrealistic expectation of the town.

[mutantdevle]

Yeah I totally agree, let's hold these politicians accountable for their voting records

I mean, it would probably have helped if you claimed your vote in this post :3

[mutantdevle]

I think that ircher is town.

@123456789, can you just clarify why you're using an alt?

[mutantdevle]

Ah, don't the district names just connect? XD

I request that you rename "Theme Park" to "Coney island".

(Note the capitalisation).

[mutantdevle]

Ahh RIP. Very closely named districts would have been fun to troll the mafia with in their PT


Scum1: "Okay x needs to go in coney island"

Scum2: "Coney Island or Coney island?"

Scum1: "coney island"

[mutantdevle]

Edosurist
Tazaro
Hebichan
Myloninja13
Ruby Red


K, so which of these is the scummy bastard that voted twice?

[mutantdevle]

Aronis and Nico Robin didn't vote.

[mutantdevle]

Iconeum (now ofrhz) also didn't vote. That's all non-voters solved. Now we just have a new lynch pool.

[mutantdevle]

Edosurist
Tazaro
Hebichan
Myloninja13

Ruby Red

We can remove Ruby since they are in 2 districts and their other district has a 100% turnout.

[mutantdevle]

I'm inclined to believe Mylo so, for me, there is at least 1 scum in {Edosurist, Tazaro, Hebichan}.

[mutantdevle]

dreams crushed

also why did i win mayfair

Obviously, whatever method resolves ties favoured you there.

[mutantdevle]

there is at least 1 scum in {Edosurist, Tazaro, Hebichan}.

Edosurist: 1 vote

???

[mutantdevle]

Mayfair Club
FIGHTING DREAMERS (the worst / SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis hydra)
123456789
Ruby Red

We KNOW red didn't vote edosurist.

FD probably voted themselves.


@123456789, can you tell me why you voted your scum buddy edosurist who then tried to double vote?

[mutantdevle]

Well, I'm going to sleep now. When I get back to this game I'll piece together any unclaimed votes if there is any :3

[mutantdevle]

Actually, before I got, HURT: 123456789.

They have NO reason to vote Edosurist. They've barely mentioned them all game and when they have they've always disagreed with them.

Now, why 123456789 and not Edosurist who is in the double voting scum lynch pool? Well, it's still possible that Edosurist is town and this is scum trying to frame them by double voting and having an 'anonymous' vote on Edosurist hence trying to pin them as mafia. Alternatively, Edosurist IS scum with 123456789. Either way, the common link is 123456789.

[mutantdevle]

Also, edo claimed not to vote....

so how are there 3 FD votes in our district?

Actually what the hell?

even if we assume there's a double vote for FD there's still one missing vote.

Prod received.
I'm sorry I was a bad citizen and didn't fulfill my civic duty. Weekend got ahead of me.

Well, Edo's comments are blatantly lying. Unless, of course, there are 2 mafias amongst the rest of them, both of who voted twice, one of which voted for 2 different people. <-- yeah that doesn't seem likely at all.

@Edo, why are you lying to us?

[mutantdevle]

oh wait @mutant
123 voted completely randomly
he said so in party PT

Oh lol, fair enough.

[mutantdevle]

Don't tunnel mutant

Lol I'm not tunnelling. Just applying pressure where I see fit

[mutantdevle]

Central Park
skitter30: 1 vote - Mutantdevle

33% district turnout
skitter30 wins!

Mayfair Club
Ruby Red: 1 vote - Ruby Red
Edosurist: 1 vote - 123456789
FIGHTING DREAMERS: 1 vote - Fighting Dreamers

100% district turnout
Ruby Red wins!

Turns out I'm an idiot lol.
FIGHTING DREAMERS: 3 votes - Tazaro, Edosurist (?), Tazaro/Edosurist (?)
Ruby Red: 2 votes - Ruby Red, Hebichan
Whemestar: 1 vote - Myloninja13

120% district turnout
FIGHTING DREAMERS wins!

Coney Island
FIGHTING DREAMERS: 2 votes - Invisibility, Skitter30

67% district turnout
FIGHTING DREAMERS wins!

Theme Park
Whemestar: 3 votes - Firebringer, WhemeStar, Wraith
Ruby Red: 2 votes - Ausuka, Blind Bandits
Not Known 15: 1 vote - Not Known 15

100% district turnout
Whemestar wins!

Overall voter turnout is ~95%.

I want to think that the above is what happened on election day.

Agreed except the 3rd vote on FD in 'Turns out I'm an idiot lol.' could still have been from any one of Tazaro/Edosurist/Hebichan/Myloninja13 since there is nothing to stop these people from voting separate people with each of their votes. Hebichan and Mylo's motivation for that would be showing allegiance to the party they are in whilst using their other vote for their scum agenda.

[mutantdevle]

It's also possible town doublevoted, even knowing they'd be scumread for it.

If they did that then they deserve the lynch that's coming for them.

[mutantdevle]

I mean old games of his I've seen he hasn't been this quiet and shady but there's people I want dead moar

I mean, he's literally in a pool of people who has guaranteed 1 scum in it...

Personally, I think it would be unwise to lynch outside of that pool of 4 today.

[mutantdevle]

same @mutant rn actually. if you want to tier your scumreads in order of who needs to die the most, I'll take it.

I don't want to do that because, beyond what I'm about to present, I don't have scum reads.

However, I do think there is scum amongst the double voting pool and this is the order I believe is most likely scum to least likely scum:

Edosurist > Tazaro > Hebichan > Myloninja13

I think it would be unwise to lynch outside of this pool.

[mutantdevle]

This president is taking a ridiculously long time. What a loser. I could do so much better

Why would a fast lynch be better for town, Aronis?

The longer you let scum live, the longer they have a chance to persuade you not to kill them. Its rlly simple

Yeah but the longer you let scum live the more association tells they leave.

[mutantdevle]

I'd preferably want Edosurist to comment on what we're accusing him of but if he's at the point where he's getting replaced I kinda guess I'm okay with just straight up lynching the slot.

A replacement is an issue because it muddies the water. The replacement wouldn't know what was going through Edosurist's mind so has the potential to either be scum who manages to push the lynch away or town who confirms the lynch on them. Whereas, Edosurist himself would be a case of lying vs not lying.

[mutantdevle]

Our president is half the person they used to be.

We did not elect this duckstrosity.

[mutantdevle]

have you done any meta homework on Edo mutant?

Can't be bothered.

I've got a lot of meta to do to fill in some gaps. I don't really want to waste that on someone we're probably about to kill.

[mutantdevle]

wheme currently tops my policylust list

Please don't policy kill :/

[mutantdevle]

I have a meta read on Ircher he’s conf town trust me

Anyone else apparently conf town according to you?

[mutantdevle]

so are FB and taz here.

I am going to start scumreading you soon if you keep saying I ping you
You know ur not good at reading me

Surely if they're not good at reading you it would make sense that they are getting it wrong?

[mutantdevle]

plus he picked a good party.

Please don't factor in whether or not someone is in your party when deciding a lynch.

[mutantdevle]

@mod

can players change parties during this phase?

If so, then @Skitter if you are considering joining my party I would recommend doing it now so that you can still use your party changing ability tomorrow.

[mutantdevle]

because I'm pretty obvious town

No

do you think you are?

I'd say no, because I'm pretty obvious town, but you're also pretty terrible at reading people, so I might say yes cause of that

I kinda want to TR aronis based on the reasoning of "too much of a dick to be scum"

Same. They're not obvious town but I don't think their successive wild tinfoil comes from town. e

[mutantdevle]

EBWOP: comes from scum*

and ignore the e.

[mutantdevle]

Mr Presiduckie, we have just under 3 days left. Are you thinking of ending the day any time soon (by lynching Edosurist).

[mutantdevle]

Why are you so resistant to lynching edo? I think more than a majority of us are in support of specifically him to be lynched. I don't think anyone has been as scummy as what we're accusing Edo of unless you count policy stuff which I most certainly don't.

Your other people in whatever pool you have not strictly looking town doesn't take away from the double vote situation.

I also don't understand why you're being so secretive about what you're thinking. I much prefer transparency.

[mutantdevle]

Mr Presiduckie, we have just under 3 days left. Are you thinking of ending the day any time soon (by lynching Edosurist).

I'll be here for end of day. still a lot of people who need to town tell. sadly there aren't half a dozen scum in this game

A lynch at end of day is not what I want. I'd much prefer you go through the procedure of placing intent to lynch to allow for claims. If you leave it too late, what if they claim a powerful PR? You won't have time to move on to your next preference and have them claim too.

You need to be acting now. We have less than 3 days. Stop being a do-nothing president or we'll name slums after you.

Of course, if it's Edo, then them not coming back means the time left doesn't matter too much. But if they do return, they already have the whole "are you lying?" "why should we believe you?" to answer for and I think 3 days is already too short of time to answer that. So getting out there that we are also asking "what's your role? because we're about to kill you" would be super helpful in speeding that long.

[mutantdevle]

bc my pool contains at least a few town by default so I wanna give them a chance to make themselves townreadable

Yeah but time is ticking and at the rate you're going you are either going to kill someone suboptimal or not give the person you want to kill the chance to claim - which runs a risk of killing a PR.

Please stop treating this as your choice. Most of us want Edosurist dead. Your 'pool' is your opinion and can be sorted on future days. But right now we want Edosurist dead.

[mutantdevle]

Gut is screaming to shoot into {Edos, Hebi} so there u go

thanks FirsB that feels good

Then declare lynch intent on one of them...

Maybe the one everyone else agrees should be shot?

[mutantdevle]

Aka @Hebichan you should probably claim.

[mutantdevle]

Didn't you literally say earlier that you got put in the same district as me cause you're bad at reading people? That's what I thought. Go away

Someone being obvious town isn't a matter of reads it's a matter of observance. I recall a fair few people stating distrust of you.

[mutantdevle]

I was just saying that because election day was Sunday, and now we are on Saturday, so what is the official time the Term is over?

The election results took longer than a day to resolve because of the tie that the mod mentioned.

[mutantdevle]

Is Aronis really policy worthy? Like if Edosurist flips town I'd much prefer a vig to shoot within the rest of the double voting pool.

[mutantdevle]

Nope.

[mutantdevle]

Firebringer

[mutantdevle]

-Electoral Commission: The mafia may designate a member to target someone, and if they have committed voter fraud in either of the two most recent elections, they will be publicly shamed and be unable to stand as a candidate in any future elections. Any votes for shamed players will not be counted. If a player is convicted of voter fraud a second time (for voter fraud committed after the first time they were convicted) they will permanently lose the ability to vote.

@mod

, can mafia target themselves with this ability?

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Edo!town mean Edosurist was telling the truth about not voting and hence we actually have 2 unaccounted for votes in that group?

[mutantdevle]

@Hebichan, why didn't you confess to your double vote yesterday?

[mutantdevle]

Also the mafia killed the slot with 4 posts.

The mod was probably pissed with that choice considering they delayed the game to find that replacement

[mutantdevle]

The Better Voting Party will, if you vote for it, lynch hebichan, who is confirmed scum according to our rules.
Mutant... You are assuming that only mafia has the power to hold people accountable for voter fraud.
The rules do not say that.

You are assuming I am making that assumption.

I asked the mod a question and then I asked Hebichan a question. At no point have I declared death upon Hebichan here.

[mutantdevle]

Why would the mafia take away their own double vote? It makes no sense, especially this early in the game. Hebichan might as well be an IC now

They would have done it for this exact situation we are in. The WIFOM of does this mean Hebichan is scum or Hebichan is town?

Personally, I don't think we should be giving him a pass here. I think we should be pressuring him to the point of making him cry.

[mutantdevle]

Or they tried to kill the worst and the bodyguard did their job.

That's a good call actually. If we can figure out which it is then we could potentially be confirming the worst as town here.

[mutantdevle]

hmm, I actually think it's far more likely that the BG did their job rather than that they were directly targetted.

I'm glad I can finally town read Mr Presiducky.

[mutantdevle]

They would have done it for this exact situation we are in. The WIFOM of does this mean Hebichan is scum or Hebichan is town?

Well, this reasoning assumes, again, that it was Mafia who shamed Hebichan. Yes, mafia is able to punish electoral fraud. But that what you say relies on the assumption that no one else is able to punish electoral fraud.

I'm not saying this did happen, I'm saying that if mafia did it then this is why they did it. Hence "they

would have

done"

I do believe there is probably a town PR that functions in this way. Someone with this town PR would check within Hebichan, Taz and myloninja.


If someone does have this town PR and they targetted either Taz or myloninja, I'd strongly ask them to check the other tonight and tell us the result tomorrow. Even with Hebichan's vote we still have 1 unaccounted for vote if we assume Edosurist really didn't vote at all like he claimed. Now, either 1 of Taz or myloninja double voted or Edosurist actually voted. This plan gives us the solution to that.

[mutantdevle]

Mafia clearly wants Ruby Red elected, just saying.

Their vote has the single most power given they are in 2 districts of 3 players. On the other hand, the rest of us who had parties on day 1 are all in the same district.

@Ruby Red, any reason why you think scum would want you elected?

[mutantdevle]

Also, I was asked a survey during the night, and I think everyone else was too.... Anyone have any idea what that was about?

Everyone in this player list was sent it. I checked the recipients of the PM.

[mutantdevle]

Join Mutantdevle's party.

Because I was highly disappointed with Fighting Dreamers/the worst yesterday. Sure, we all pressured you to lynch Edo, and that was the right choice imo even if it hit town. The thing is, you asked for feedback but barely provided any of your own. You also stalled way too much without really good reason imo. I don't think that makes you scum (and with the night kill, I think you are probably conf!town now), but I am not putting my faith in you as president again (at least not until SIMYK is back).

good take, this and my generally sub-par reads are why I actively encouraged pushing Ruby's presidency

the worst, may I just ask, why are you running for president both yesterday and today if you are clearly uncomfortable with being put in the kingmaker situation?

Was it entirely SIMYK's idea?

[mutantdevle]

i think i will probably be joining your oddly spelled 'mutante' party

It's a reference to how people kept calling me mutante in a previous game

[mutantdevle]

If I wanted to avoid culpability and was scum, why would I out myself?

Pick one or the other.

It is entirely possible that you were outed by a town PR and not the mafia.

[mutantdevle]

Forgot Ircher is for mutant's party now.

Still doesn't change much and I don't trust it either.

You don't trust my party?

Whilst I cannot confidently tell you the alignment of 123456789 or anyone who joins my party, if you have any faith in Wheme then you should have faith in me.

Wheme actively wanted me in his party. Before founding his own he sought to join me and have me endorse him as a leader. I would have accepted that offer if it wasn't for my own personal requirement to own a PT.

I'd be in your party if I didn't have one of my own. Whilst it's true that we have different policies, I'd like to think our parties could rely on each other as allies.

[mutantdevle]

I thought our district and the overall presidential vote would go to Ruby, so I split my vote between FD and Ruby to get some reads.

If I had to vote for a party that wasn't mine, gun to head. I'd pick wheme.

I townread him, even if his party is pretty useless.

What happened to this @Hebichan?

I think somebody is a bit of a bullshitter.

[mutantdevle]

they probably drew the districts with a dead the worst in mind.

That's definitely something to be taken into strong consideration.

[mutantdevle]

okay so I'm just going to come out and say this since people are ignoring me and we probably have some sort of protection other than presidential bodyguard. I'm a 2-shot lie detector on presidential mod posts, so yes we do actually need to do the lie detector thing.

Have you used a shot yet, if so, what was the result?

If you have used a shot already, and plan to use the other today but don't want to tell us either result yet, make sure to at least send your results to your party PT if you die.

[mutantdevle]

it seems that given the current district placements, things become more chaotic if tw is dead; it turns several of the districts into tossups.

.....and then who comes in with shade throwing and a new party?

???

starts with an A and rhymes with "blaronis".

Are you saying Aronis is mafia and planned to kill you off so he could form his own party in the ashes?

Because if you are, I'm going to have to strongly disagree.

[mutantdevle]

Also yes I have an inno on tw so we can stop talking about if he's somehow fake cleared or not

somewhat annoying that my invest died n1 but oh well. I considered investigating mutant but if his info about how to make presidential posts was false that could have messed up the investigation so I decided to go with tw instead.

Fair enough.

Do you still want me to make a crier post so that you can investigate me? I know this sounds scummy but from where I'm sat this cop style ability is better used on Ruby.

[mutantdevle]

Yeah that's what I was going to clarify: whether something counts as a lie if the person saying it didn't know it was false.

Aww damn. I suppose this makes sense for balance though.

[mutantdevle]

I hereby have two things to proceed to pucker up into a monumental megaphone and claim to the clammy, sweaty seated awaiting audience ...
Engage.

Two things are--> I postal voted for Fighting Dreamers. Then I election day voted for Fighting Dreamers.

Asshole.

@Hebichan and @Tazaro, I'd like to take this moment to say that Edosurist's death is entirely on the pair of you. If either of you had spoken up about your double votes yesterday then we would have known there was 2 double votes sooner and Edosurist wouldn't have had to die. We are now in a situation where your actions have caused us to misslynch a townie and each of you are now heavily due policy lynches that could probably be spent better elsewhere. As a town, we agreed almost unanimously that double voting was a scum claim yet both of you had to be anti-town and go through with it anyway. Instead of speaking up, you were both cowards and let someone else eat the lynch that each of you deserved. You should have taken responsibility for your actions and spoken up sooner.

So shame on both of you for your actions.

Knowing you had double voted made Edosurist's claim so much more likely to be true. Hence you both knew we were lynching a townie. Tazaro, at the very least, was softly defending Edosurist. He made a few comments agreeing with the worst on how so much support for Edosurist was suspicious. Of course, if he really wanted to save Edosurist's life he would have claimed his double vote. Hebichan on the other hand, made no effort to oppose the Edosurist lynch. He just commented on the situation with no real input. If there's scum in these double voters then I'm convinced it's Hebichan. If we are going to lynch over this situation again then it should be Hebichan that goes. I don't think it's wise to spend 3 lynches here though. If we have a killing role then they should definitely take out Taz because he'd be dangerous to be kept for MyLo.

This whole fiasco is annoying. But at least we have the 2 (in my opinion) confirmed townies of the worst and Ausuka to balance this out.

[mutantdevle]

A couple of things. How many times was it said that the problem was if someone double voted at all?--It was said over and over again, and, so, it's kind of a waste of further breath to now insert that if there were actually MORE people who double voted then one of those people in particular (Edosurist, you say) would have been saved. All this stuff about double voting is bad, and it's a scum claim and stuff. And now turn it around and say if it WERE claimed it would have been Edosurist's salvation?
I did not mislynch a townie; you guys DID with your insistence that "oh no" someone double voted or did not vote or whatnot is a problem. No it's not. We don't all walk in lockstep. And the double voting thing was made such an issue and therefore Edosurist had to die was such a dumb move.
Oh, and don't even talk about "policy lynches" in the same breath of saying that an innocent townie was lynched. The policy lynch of me would kill an innocent townie. What is then the point of saying "policy lynch" anyway when the "policy lynch" of Edosurist happened? And the only ones who don't have responsibility for him dying is those who didn't support his lynch. Imagine that.
So what is it going to be--is there a soft insinuation that I deserve to die because I have the guilt of double voting? Wasn't that the very problem that was risen as a specter over Edosurist?|
And can we drop the lining up of lynches to find the double voter. At least we can end that now

If you think you are not responsible for Edosurist's death then you are dead wrong. At the very least, you're as much to blame as everyone who supported and if not then more so. It was the pair of your's actions that created the situation in the first place.

Either you or Hebichan claiming your double vote would certainly have been Edosurist's salvation. Your claims back up Edosurist's own that they didn't vote. It's just a shame they weren't around to reinforce the idea that they didn't vote when suspicion first arose. By claiming a double vote, we likely would have killed you instead of him. What's the difference between lynching a town!Edosurist and a town!either of you? Answer: Both of you deserved to be lynched for your actions whereas Edosurist was innocent of everything we were holding against him.

I never said people who didn't lynch him are the ones responsible for his death. I said specifically you and Hebichan are responsible because you were more informed about what happened and you had the power to speak up about the situation.

[mutantdevle]

pre-ninja: I did not agree with the logic of double voting equals a problem and therefore Edosurist equals a convenient person who gets to be dumped into a lynch pool and then gets lynched because the mob (who I wasn't a part of) said to lynch him and kill scum, at best, or at the least find the dratted double voter. What a crummy plan. Someone in this thread said about double voting that "it's a scum claim." Who was it that dared write that, again?

However, I think we should, as minimum, impose the rule

Electoral fraud is a scum claim

.
Allowing electoral fraud to take place is strictly anti-town.

Oh, yes, it was this gem that I remembered. The minimum rule should be the rule that embroiled people like Edosurist and me?!???!

It was agreed that double voting was a scum thing to do and we WOULD lynch people for it. You never expressed disagreement with it when it was discussed.

However, I think we should, as minimum, impose the rule Electoral fraud is a scum claim.

I'm fine with the no electoral fraud rule.

I agree with no electoral fraud.

town has no reason to postal vote in general

Postal voting is fine if you're V/LA, it's really the double voting that's an issue.

All 5 of these posts showed support for banning double votes.

Nobody

expressed any disagreement. It felt pretty agreed upon to me. Obviously, you didn't get the message.

[mutantdevle]

Speak up and say what? Besides all what I had said day one.

Admit that you double voted when we first called for people to admit double votes, maybe?

[mutantdevle]

For the record, I think Tazaro is town. Why? Because I just don't feel like scum would be so out here. (Like, unless someone has reason to suspect otherwise based on Tazaro's playstyle in other games, that's my stance.)

I agree. He's a scummy town but town nonetheless. That said, I'm still more okay with a vig on him than anyone else. His reaction to all this strikes me as town since, although he is making excuses, he is not trying to present his excuses as pro town like Hebichan did. I just wish he was saying all this stuff yesterday when it mattered more.

[mutantdevle]

The case against hebi has only been growing though
like her double voting isn't the only reason why I'm scumreading her
It's the double vote + bad reason for double vote + voting for two different people + letting edos get lynched (and in fact, pushing for edos to get lynched because she, in all her hypocrisy, wanted to out the double voter)

May I just add that scum!Hebi would want president town!the worst dead since he so strongly considered him for the lynch over Edosurist.

[mutantdevle]

I townread about everyone In my party

The worst is town
Aronis is town
Ruby is town? Who’s in Ruby’s party?

What are people’s read on me

I town read you. Although you don't list me here, I thought we were mutual on that.

The worst and Ausuka are town mechanically.

I agree on Aronis being town too. I can see a bit of myself in them.

Not so sure about Ruby though.

[mutantdevle]

Uhhh. So can we like do the lie detector thing. It doesn't count as a lie if the person doesn't know it's a lie so we're gonna have to stick with clearing people running for president/not in a party.

I'd much rather you use it on Ruby if I'm honest. They're more popular president wise than I am so I think that's a much better use of your ability.

I also want Ruby to check into the thread as well. They've kinda disappeared.

[mutantdevle]

atm i think you have more support than her tbh; most of her support seems to be residual from yesterday.

ruby has had sitewide inactivity recently so i don't think it's ai but like it would be useful to hear her thoughts on like everything

I highly doubt everyone in my party is going to vote for me. One of the points of being in my party is you can vote where you like without being obliged to any kind of party allegiance.

And yeah, I don't think Ruby's inactivity is ai. I just want them in the thread :P

[mutantdevle]

There was disagreement though. You're just cherrypicking a specific post where there wasn't a negative response. He tried to force everyone to follow this rule and a bunch of others and people shut him down a few pages before this.

That was opposition to his proposed

ruleset

which was more to do with the entire voting process rather than simple double voting.

The no double voting rule individually was agreed with numerous times, faced no opposition, and is inherently scummy anyway.

[mutantdevle]

@Mutant --> Thanks for quoting Hebi; that gives us all the more reason to scumread them.

Yeah. Honestly, the more you look at Hebichan's post the more you think "wait, so why DID you double vote?"

Either his reasons for double voting is BS or everything he said beforehand was BS. Either way, it's scummy.

[mutantdevle]

Out of all the people in this game I'd want to essentially cop check I think Aronis would have to be pretty low on that list. Like, I get that he's hard to read for most people, but giving someone confirmed town status also gives them responsibility and I'd argue that would be wasted on Aronis. I'd much prefer it on someone who could use that power well such as Ruby Red.

Obviously it's your choice what you use your shots on Ausuka, but out of the current candidates my prefered order of who to check would be like this:

Ruby Red > Wheme > Myself > Aronis.

[mutantdevle]

I'm down for the plan of lynching Hebichan to test his claim.

If he's telling the truth then the lynch will be blocked and he will survive whilst allowing us to lynch again.

If he's lying and dies then he's either scum or deserved it.


Let's just hope he's not scum that can block a lynch on him :3

[mutantdevle]

And Taz and Hebi were the double votes then, and Hebi claimed third party. Not sure what to think of Taz though lol.

@Taz, how do you feel that you're the

only

townie that double voted?

That's assuming you are a townie.

[mutantdevle]

Hmm, I didn't set a limit on that so I guess there isn't one

ENDORSE: ofrhz

[mutantdevle]

Let's just hope he's not scum that can block a lynch on him :3

If we have a role cop, check Hebi just in case of this

[mutantdevle]

Well, I am not strictly against keeping claimed third parties alive if they have been protown, their claim passes scrunity and are not antitown...
something that does not fit to hebichan.

hebichan acted antitown.

Had they claimed yesterday and prevented the lynch to gain trust I maybe had said ok...
here? Lynch.

What do you think we gain from lynching third party?

Our job is to lynch mafia.

[mutantdevle]

Pretty sure wheme was joking but meh.

[mutantdevle]

why?

[mutantdevle]

they're scum

What makes them scum?

[mutantdevle]

Honestly I don't think we should care whether hebichan wins or not. We shouldn't go out of our way to make sure she wins but if she wins before we get rid of her that's honestly okay?

Some speculate the game ends if their win condition is reached.

I don't think it will.

[mutantdevle]

or i just don't say where i'm voting and leave it very open in {wheme/aronis/mutant; with all three being a viable option for this purpose} because to get it tied she'd have to guess where i'm voting and then vote accordingly

You should randomly generate a number for it so that they won't know entirely.

[mutantdevle]

I don't believe your claim Wheme.

[mutantdevle]

so can everyone agree that the plan is

we lynch me

i lynch scum completeing the ancient prophecy and then scum kills me so i can ascend to a higher plane of existence

You want us to lynch you?

[mutantdevle]

Also, I don't know why people are taking Wheme's claims seriously. He is literally the leader of the shit posting party. He clearly isn't third party and he isn't scum for it either.

[mutantdevle]

If you are genuinely third party, then we at least need to know your win condition. Otherwise, we don't know whether or not you are a threat.

And if you are third party, please justify to us why the hell you would claim that?

[mutantdevle]

It's entirely possible there can be multiple third parties.

[mutantdevle]

If you are genuinely third party, then we at least need to know your win condition. Otherwise, we don't know whether or not you are a threat.

And if you are third party, please justify to us why the hell you would claim that?

I think his win condition is pretty obvious.......

Care to share?

I'm assuming you're alluding to his shit posting being related to his win condition?

[mutantdevle]

The selection is obvious.. we ALL vote mutant, no exceptions.

I do not echo this statement.

One of my party policies is how everyone should have freedom and options. That includes the freedom of choosing who

you

want to be president.

[mutantdevle]

My alignment hardly matters when I’m putting the lynch to a democracy

[mutantdevle]

A tie????!!!

People should've just double-voted in Hebi's district....

If there are any double votes this time then I'm going to have a fit.

[mutantdevle]

What makes you think she is third party?

[mutantdevle]

@Everyone, please use hurt tags (or vote tags I guess) to directly say who you want lynched.

HURT: Hebichan (my vote).

I feel like Hebichan is popular to be lynch tested, so I may just submit the lynch when I wake up tomorrow if enough people have had input by then. However, usually, I will be placing intent to lynch whoever is most popular to be lynched every 48 hours.

[mutantdevle]

I feel like I only won because Ruby wasn't around to vote tbh.

I think Firebringer is our other non-voter. Correct me if I'm wrong @Central Park.

[mutantdevle]

Intent to lynch Hebichan

Aka, if you need to target your lynch preventing ability on yourself before the lynch, do it now.

[mutantdevle]

What do you mean?

[mutantdevle]

How the fuck do you reach that conclusion?

Allowing time for both Hebichan to target themselves with their ability and other people to say a few words or have some input in no way puts Hebichan in control here.


I think we all know what's going to happen here. We lynch Hebi, they prevent their lynch, we then choose someone else. I see no reason to rush through that process and I'm intent on it going as smoothly as possible. Especially considering the following:

I can stop the lynch after its been chosen but before it resolves to stop the lynch and make the president resolve a new one.

The time between me lynching her and the mod resolving it is potentially very short. There's no guarantee Hebi will be on when I do that.

I can also set up my protest ability so that I can use it even if im not around,

We don't know if she has done this yet. She probably has but I want to wait for the confirmation from her to make sure this all works properly.

Naturally, if she takes too long to respond, I'll go ahead with the lynch without the confirmation. But I see no need to rush this.

[mutantdevle]

Cool.

VOTE: Hebichan

[mutantdevle]

I don't consider Hebichan to be a threat. More than anything, this was a claim test.

So for now:
UNVOTE:

@Everyone, please vote again with hurt or vote tags. You may vote for Hebichan again if you wish but, honestly, I think that's a waste of a lynch.

I will be placing intent on the most popular person to be lynched in (expired on 2018-07-07 16:00:00).

[mutantdevle]

Why aren't you concerned about her?

Because if Hebichan's win condition ends the game then jjh needs to rethink how they balance games.

Do you know what turns third parties against the town? Constantly treating them as though they are mafia. Hebichan has expressed willingness to cooperate with us and I don't see why we can't take her up on that. Because if we don't, the mafia will. She has also claimed she leaves the game if she wins. So she's hardly going to stab us in the back after that. I'm not prepared to go out of the way to give her a win, but I don't think we should be directly opposing her. We should accept her help where she offers it. If she ever starts becoming a serious threat, we neutralise her. Currently, her only crime is double voting. Which is obviously easily explained by her win condition.

[mutantdevle]

Reminder: I only count people as voting for someone to be lynched if they use hurt or vote tags.

(expired on 2018-07-07 16:00:00)

[mutantdevle]

Mutant it’s extremely scummy to be doing what you are doing in this type of game

How so?

[mutantdevle]

Looks like your just letting everyone decide the Lynch for you so no matter what the flip you can say your not to blame for it

Umm no. By running for president you are basically making a statement that you take responsibility for the lynch. If the town lynches town, that's still my fault because if I went for my own opinion rather than putting it to democracy maybe there'd be a different outcome. Likewise, with other presidents, if they did something different then maybe there'd be a different outcome. Hence every president is responsible for every lynch. The way I see it, whatever the flip is it is my responsibility. If my vote contributed to who was the target, then I deserve blame for that too. I don't have a democratic policy because I want to avoid blame, I have a democratic policy because I have statistically bad reads. I know most people here will have better reads than me. I'd happily take better reads with a little scum influence over wild stabs in the dark on my part. Furthermore, it also forces association tells on people. I've noticed a distinct lack of reads lists this game. This method at least forces people to properly state reads in exchange for read influence.

You criticise my presidency but I fail to see how anything you have said or done has contributed to anything. There was a point in this game where I trusted you. I was also certain you knew that too. But now you've claimed third party and insisted upon assholery actions and I'm not so sure what to make of you anymore. You seem to act as though you have power over me. Maybe you do. But just know that I'm not going to back down on my stances simply because things aren't going your way. I, personally, don't want you lynched or even forced to claim. But I heavily empathise with those who do. And I must admit you've grown mystical to even me and I am wondering what your true role is.

[mutantdevle]

'Bout an hour until I place lynch intent.

(expired on 2018-07-07 16:00:00)

[mutantdevle]

By my count, Wheme and Taz have 4 hurts on them each.

However, since Invisibility was originally on Tazaro (but then also put hurt on Wheme) and 123456789 voted for 3 people (hence not purely for wheme) I'm going to make a small judgement call here and say that Tazaro is the more popular lynch candidate. If you don't like it, make sure to use hurt tags next time

Hence,

intent to lynch Tazaro

. Please claim.

If nothing gives me any reason not to lynch Tazaro then I will do so in (expired on 2018-07-09 19:30:00).

[mutantdevle]

So your claim basically means we have no mafia kill?


Jesus fucking Christ. How scummy can you get this game? Like wtf. Are you claiming miller too?

I received an ability to murder someone in this game of my choosing.

What do you mean by this? In what way to you receive this ability? And if it is not originally part of your role, then what is your original role?

[mutantdevle]

Wait, so was your ability to kill part of your role or did you gain it?

[mutantdevle]

So you are now effectively a vanilla townie? Hence not much of a loss even if town.

[mutantdevle]

But, wait, because of my power ('s potential benefit), I was (perhaps for balance) stripped of the power to put my hat in the ring as a presidential candidate. If i live this day, and I announce candidacy we can easily see if the mod record my party as a part of the list of parties on the next day.

Do you know what this sounds like to me? This sounds a like scum trying to buy themselves an extra day to use whatever PR they have. I fail to see why you keep claiming in parts when you should have claimed in full originally. Tbh Taz, even if you could prove your role, role =!= alignment. How do we know you’re not just a powerful scum role that’s balanced by not being able to run for election? The way you’ve claimed and everything you’ve done has just been so scummy. You double voted, you seem to have an uncooperative fuck the town attitude, if you really think that I miscounted the votes you would have proven it before claiming and now your claim muddies so much water, especially surrounding the worst, and the way you’re doing it makes me think you’re making it up as you go along.

HURT: Tazaro

I see no reason to to lynch you here.



@Everyone, use the hurt tag to show support for me hammering or otherwise express legit reasons to oppose such a lynch.

[mutantdevle]

I see no reason to not lynch here*

Phone posting sucks.

[mutantdevle]

Mutant pls trust me

In no world is taz scum here

If you had said this at an early game state I might have believed you. But your actions make me heavily distrust you. Unless you claim some kind of way that Taz can't be scum through your role, I have no reason to believe this statement is anything but your own read that I have no reason to sheep.

[mutantdevle]

and why don't you just lynch me because you seem quite poised. What are you waiting for?

Others to confirm that they want you dead. Y'know, since that's the policy of my presidency. My conclusion from your role claim is that you should be lynched. Others may have the opposite conclusion. Time is also necessary for talking and discussion. My opinion is not superior.

[mutantdevle]

Ok lynch town idc

And your lack of care is why I don't trust your opinion.

[mutantdevle]

Why wouldn’t you point out a crumb when you claim? Why would you wait until now? Why would you ask before doing it?

[mutantdevle]

but if i can be saved from more typing, well well

If you're not putting the effort in it's no surprise people want you dead.

I'm seeing lots of people wanting you dead, and only Wheme wanting you alive. Unfortunately, Wheme's defence of you is not sufficient to save your life.


If you want to know what we get out of this lynch, just know that the very system I have used as my presidency gives us associations from those directly choosing to hurt you and those who choose otherwise (either through voting someone else or not at all). Furthermore, you are either scum or a shit townie.

If you're scum:

• We lynch scum.
  
• You're clearly trying to stall for time (another night) meaning we prevent whatever reason you have for that.
  
• We gain more powerful associations from those who did or did not push you.

If you're town:

• You are effectively a vanilla townie now.
  
• You have had no positive contributions to the game.
  
• You have actively performed actions against the town.
  
• You have a toxic can't be bothered/fuck the town attitude.

This strikes me as a very low risk high reward lynch.

Aronis has already commented on how your claim here is inconsistent with your claim in the PT. I trust Aronis more than I trust you and I doubt he'd be bullshitting to get you lynched.

For these reasons, as well as the reasons mentioned by several individuals since your claim, I'm going to end my term with the following action:

VOTE: Tazaro

Consider yourself lynched. If you have any final words, eg. reads or helpful information, then now is your time to give it.


And yes, Wheme, I do accept responsibility for this lynch. My policy lead us to this conclusion, I have played a part in the conviction of Tazaro, and my own interpretation lead us to this claim instead of yours. That's not to say, however, that others are not

also

accountable for the usage or lack of usage of hurt tags regardless of this flip.

I'd like to thank everyone who voted for me and everyone who took part in the usage of hurt tags, and I hope I have not failed y'all as a president.

[mutantdevle]

I currently plan to lie detect ofrhz tonight ftr

What I would say about this is that they are far more townie in my party PT and that I doubt that they would volunteer themselves for the lie detector as scum like that when they easily could not have suggested being temporary leader of my party at all. That said, WIFOM is, of course, an issue; I wouldn't be able to tell you who to check instead. However, I trust you to make the decision you see best on who to check.

[mutantdevle]

Tazaro, if I could choose who I wanted to be vig, you'd be very low on that list.

Your the worst shot proves you are not responsible with such power. Even if you flip town with the exact role you described, taking out your vig shots would probably be better in the long run.

If you want to be useful, then give reads.


@Hebi, I don't see how your ability is useful for as at the moment. I think its use is better saved for late game when we may need to control which way the vote goes more.

[mutantdevle]

W H Y C L A I M ?

[mutantdevle]

can anyone explain why we killed Taz rather than two hardclaimed antitown and one obvscum Blind Bandits?

Hebichan is anti-town because of being third party. Third party, unless has a win condition directly against the town, is not a threat and does not do us any good lynching when there's mafia to lynch.
Wheme is anti-town because of his playstyle. He also claimed third party which I'm still not entirely convinced on. He's either scummy town or scummy third party both of which are not mafia and wouldn't do us any good to lynch. I really don't see Wheme as a threat here. At most, he is a nuisance.

Blind Bandits, to my recollection, hasn't had much lynch support voiced against him. If you expect to get a scum read lynched simply by stating you scum read them then you're wrong. Push them, tell us why they should be lynched instead of others. Blind Bandits is definitely someone to consider today.

Let me be blunt about Taz. He is better off dead. Vigs can be detrimental to the town in the hands of a good player let alone anti-town ones. Is this really a role you want in the hands of a player such as taz? His N1 shot was hardly any good and I wouldn't expect his next shots to be any better. In my opinion, lynching someone who is dangerous to the town with their role is the next best thing to lynching scum.

[mutantdevle]

i still want to lynch hebi today

Can we not?

Hebichan is not a threat.

It annoys me how many times I have to say this. We know Hebi is third party. We checked their claim with an attempted lynch yesterday. Third party is not mafia. Our goal is to lynch mafia.

[mutantdevle]

if I am president my lynchpool is:
Hebichan: 90% useless third party 10% fakeclaiming scumfuck
Wheme: 50% useless third party 50% fakeclaiming scumfuck
Blind Bandits: obvious scumfuck

I don't want wheme or Hebichan lynched today. Blindbandits is good. I also think firebringer/oath, ofrhz and invisibility should be in the lynch pool today. The town's collectively narrow-minded view on the lynch pool is not going to get us anywhere.

[mutantdevle]

also I will be hipshooting with justification. because both mutant and I made bullshit kills in the previous two days via laziness.

My kill was not lazy thank you very much. It was the result of the policy I had promised from my presidency. It was not bs either. Just because a lynch was not on scum doesn't make it bullshit. Taz was a better lynch than most.