SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[PenguinPower]

Try not spoilering if you want me to respond.

- Why would there be two town roles with an immunity to the night kill, especially if mine was contingent upon high, normal, ranking (making me completely immune to all night actions, including kills) while Puns was dependent on the same; but, has some mysterious voting contingency that they don't want to share. I don't know, but it made me question whether we were of the same alignment.

- Um, no. See above. Ascetic is usually antitown; mine being based on rating could swing either way. If I'm lowly rated and suspected, then I can be cleared (though lose the nk immunity), or removed altogether getting a suspect slot out of the way. What happens if I ended up highly rated and investigated down the road?

- See above. I wanted to reassess based on play, but Pun is pushing me for basically my lighthearted meta, which I don't think Pun would do normally, so...I don't really want to.

[PenguinPower]

Quoted for truth

quit fucking trying

So mean.

[Shoshin]

PP, what's your read on Maria?

[PenguinPower]

Town for today.

[Shoshin]

Town for today.

Why?

[PenguinPower]

Why not?

[Vaxkiller]

Vaxkiller: Vaxkiller also has gone on a rollercoaster in my reads, from a six to a four before I settled on five. To some extent, he Vaxes me; I don't have a reliable way of reading his contribution. However, some of his pushes, while containing some...questionable...reasoning, look like they are genuinely going in the right direction. Not a killer-strong read, but enough that I want to keep him in the game longer.

This "rollercoaster from a six to a four to a five" feels fake.

Workin my way backwards, but yeah this confuses me as well. I'm a roller coaster but i Vex him, I push some, but something i do are questionable.. I look genuine, but not a strong read. I mean it dont get more wishy washy than that.

I dont have any thoughts on Espe/Fire/Dunn from emmoery but ill keep readin... porlly tomorrow tho

[Shoshin]

Why not?

I'm probably giving her a 0 or 1. Her reads/rankings don't make sense + she's openly lying about them so that we can't even question her about it. Or put another way, her reads are fake and she's intentionally obscuring her alignment. On top of that, she immediately jumped onto Nadhia's suggestion to end the day, which is precisely how I see scum responding to that suggestion if made by town (and, yes, I'm reading Nahdia as town here - for reasons that should be apparent to anyone reading the game).

[PenguinPower]

I'll probably bump her up a bit then. Why is Nahdia town for suggesting early end but Maria scum for agreeing with it?

You should probably stop treating this day phase as a typical mafia game.

[Shoshin]

I'll probably bump her up a bit then. Why is Nahdia town for suggesting early end but Maria scum for agreeing with it?

You should probably stop treating this day phase as a typical mafia game.

I didn't say Nahdia's town for suggesting early end; Nahdia's done other things that make me think she's town. Maria's done things that are scummy, and her desire to end the day is consistent with reading her as scummy, especially since she wasn't the initial person to suggest ending early. I think scum want to end early but aren't typically going to say so because they're worried it might be seen as scummy - they're self-conscious about appearing to want to shut down a meaningful discussion because it's very easy for that to be taken as scummy, whereas a townie who genuinely believes we should end early would just say it, the way I think Nahdia did.

To be clear, I'm not treating this day phase like a normal game. It's actually why I think ending the day here isn't the right play. The rankings system puts more pressure than normal on scum to be read as town because our collective intelligence via rankings could plausibly lead to scum deaths in situations where we wouldn't ordinarily be able to get a consensus on a scum lynch - so this isn't a typical situation where people care only about who they're lynching - here, every ranking matters so figuring out your top suspect 0s doesn't mean it's time to stop refining reads because the difference between a 9 and 10 might actually be the difference between who dies. I think the desire to end the day here comes more from a scum mindset than a town one because scum are under a lot of pressure to avoid dying, while town have lots of incentive to refine their reads as precisely as possible. In terms of gameplay, I think scum have every reason to try taking advantage of the system by "lying" about reads and claiming it's because of "scum manipulation," whereas townies aren't interested in "lying," they're interested in finding the scum and refining reads to the best extent possible.

[Shoshin]

I'll probably bump her up a bit then.

Is this to counteract my read? Please explain why she's town. From your response, I figured you just didn't have any reason to suspect her, but this makes it seem like you affirmatively think she's town and want to protect her.

[Srceenplay]

I'm wary that all the claims in this thread have not been all town-motivated.

1) Give me your thoughts and assessment of Pun and PP's claims.

PP: I think Their claim could be an awesome pro-town role. They did not play it that way and the way they go about claiming makes it winfomy. I think its scum.
Pun: I had to iso because i didn't remember claim. First post of theirs is a partial claim. Definitely seems odd and maybe understandable if they where aesthetic. They don't seem to reveal everything and hint that there is more.
IMO Pun is more believable.
but
I think Pun is bullshitting their read on me. So, a little OMGUS.

2) What do you think of Shoshin?

They are riding a wave upwards. They have started low but continue to make me like them more and more. They continue to give thoughts, ask questions, interject new thoughts and questions that move the game in response.

3) Do you think we have deepwolfs at the moment?

I don't think so but thats because I don't overly town read to many.

4) Why are you unsure about DV's post after some thought?

He shade Brawl by saying he is trying to look busy(fluff) but when you look at the first half of his post thats exactly what it is. The second half he tries to narrate a new meaning from the post that looks to me as forcing a read.

5) Talk to me about Nahdia and Pine. I don't quite know how to read them yet.

I don't have much either.
Nahdia: Neutral
Pine: BS-ing. Upper neutral.

[MariaR]

you should give me a 10 because it'd make me feel better at my chances of living thanks.

[Srceenplay]

you should give me a 10 because it'd make me feel better at my chances of living thanks.

OK



We are still lying, right?

[MariaR]

I'll probably bump her up a bit then. Why is Nahdia town for suggesting early end but Maria scum for agreeing with it?

You should probably stop treating this day phase as a typical mafia game.

I didn't say Nahdia's town for suggesting early end; Nahdia's done other things that make me think she's town. Maria's done things that are scummy, and her desire to end the day is consistent with reading her as scummy, especially since she wasn't the initial person to suggest ending early. I think scum want to end early but aren't typically going to say so because they're worried it might be seen as scummy - they're self-conscious about appearing to want to shut down a meaningful discussion because it's very easy for that to be taken as scummy, whereas a townie who genuinely believes we should end early would just say it, the way I think Nahdia did.

To be clear, I'm not treating this day phase like a normal game. It's actually why I think ending the day here isn't the right play. The rankings system puts more pressure than normal on scum to be read as town because our collective intelligence via rankings could plausibly lead to scum deaths in situations where we wouldn't ordinarily be able to get a consensus on a scum lynch - so this isn't a typical situation where people care only about who they're lynching - here, every ranking matters so figuring out your top suspect 0s doesn't mean it's time to stop refining reads because the difference between a 9 and 10 might actually be the difference between who dies. I think the desire to end the day here comes more from a scum mindset than a town one because scum are under a lot of pressure to avoid dying, while town have lots of incentive to refine their reads as precisely as possible. In terms of gameplay, I think scum have every reason to try taking advantage of the system by "lying" about reads and claiming it's because of "scum manipulation," whereas townies aren't interested in "lying," they're interested in finding the scum and refining reads to the best extent possible.

you take a lot of things at face value I assume. Am I lying about a few things? Yes of course as I think everyone here should be I'd be shocked if scum didn't have some role to influence votes to counteract the chance they could die at night. Along with other roles we might have in the game? That's really broken and I think just being openly honest is incorrect play here
Every game has the chance to have apathy I feel like we're not even having a huge meaningful talk I feel like a lot of the talk has happened and if we keep doing said talk we'll go in circles and start second guessing and that's exactly what the mafia want. If we make our statements and be confident in them the game can end and we can have long day phases the next day and so on and so forth I don't t think dragging this out would be right if you think I'm scum for disagreeing with you I can't help you there.
Pedit: Thank you for your input Screenplay just like the rest of your content it has been extremely helpful

[Shoshin]

639's pretty scummy too.

[Srceenplay]

639's pretty scummy too.

jesus christ idgaf

[the worst]

how

[Srceenplay]

so much for my beer theory

[the worst]

beer is too great to drag down with mafia

[Srceenplay]

I guess I will go get another

[the worst]

good thinking

[TehBrawlGuy]

Given your recent posts, I can actually see town-motivation behind you not giving a lot of information about your reads, and you being uncertain about Me/PP - even though I'm town, and a dichotomy D1 is really unhelpful here. While I think it's towny, I don't think we should lie or make our numbers randomized in any part of our list.

Town needs to congeal on lower numbers, but it is easy for scum to blend behind this plan. I do agree scum can overpower with numbers, but with accountability D2, don't you think it's far-fetched that scum would be so similar, if not the same as each other in ranking?

1)

Why do you think

PP

is most likely scum with his role?

2)

Nahdia

has disagreed with you BOTH on your plans for the day, and

PP's

alignment, but what makes you think they're town?

3)

Who would you recommend having as a 0 for the day?

4)

Stop with the WIFOM on

me/PP

. What about his posts ping you, and why are you uncertain of your read over me?

5)

How do you feel about the sudden surge of town-ish reads coming to you?[/spoiler]

read has actually given a way to force real accountability. We will force players to post a ranking list, but there's no accountability for posting a fake list. If Scum post a sensible rankings list D2, but actually submitted something else, we have no way to tell.

1) I feel like I already laid this one out. I disliked the interaction between you two, so I was on the lookout for Scum in the pairing. As far as the claim itself, I already made a post on that you can grab in my iso if you want
.
2) I talked about this already, too, but it's the stubbornness and tone in the reply to me I read as Town. Shoshin put it pretty well. The way Nahdia's coming at this is the way a genuinely convicted Townie does. I still think her points are wrong and AntiTown, so she could just be powerwolfing well, but Occam's Razor says Town is more likely, so weak Town read.

3) The people I've voted for - PP/Espe. Pine's not a bad policy 0 since almost all his content is fluff. Given that only two players are dying, though, I'm probably gonna toss my third 0 to someone unlikely to die to ramp up the chances PP/Espe die.

4) That's still not what WIFOM means, and no. I'm not going to suddenly abandon my opinion just because you say so. Again, I've already laid out what I feel on PP. If you have any specific questions, I'm happy to answer those, but I'm going to refer you to my iso if you ask big generalities I've already answered.
As for you, I don't see the genuine line of thought in your posts that others are seeing. I see mostly a scattering of easily answerable, obvious questions. The lack of comprehension behind your inquiries and extreme focus on quantity over quality both suggest a lack of genuine motivation to find Scum as Town, but make sense if you're Scum that a) just wants to be seen as useful and b) benefits from clogging up the thread and wasting our time. But, on the other hand, from the little I know of your meta, this is pretty standard, and most of the thread who know you better townread you, so I might be completely off base there. Either way, I have scummier people to hunt who I'm going to have an easier time persuading the Town on, so going after you is a poor use of my effort. Time will either lead me to think you're more town, or everyone else to think you're more scum, so I'm happy waiting until you sort better.

5) Nothing much, really. Relieved a bit. Basically, what should happen did happen, so there's not a lot to say on it. The points at my earlier posts were solid, the rest was bullshit, and I've been pretty helpful to Town since. I feel like all three of those are being generally acknowledged, so we're good.
What were you expecting me to say about this? I don't know what you're trying to get at.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Dammit I fucked up the first sentence. I wish i could edit.

First sentence should be "Nothing I've read has actually given a way to force real accountability."

[Srceenplay]

blah