Open 729 - Cul de Sac!

[northsidegal]

annoyed that i missed the early game

VOTE: scioness

[northsidegal]

i didn't sign up to play straight 2:11

i did

[northsidegal]

by the way, everyone can pretend that this post is a big paragraph or something so that we can skip the early game scumreads on me that will inevitably get disproven later when i have more time to play

[northsidegal]

I can't suspend disbelief
You're still scum and you chose not to vote scum

haha xd

[northsidegal]

by the way, nice to see you again wavemode!

[northsidegal]

math, you already think scioness is town?

[northsidegal]

?????

if you're joking can you stop

[northsidegal]

scioness, what's your read on math?

[northsidegal]

Math I don't know what your deal is but either one of these things is going on regarding your read on me:

- You are scum picking on me because you know I'm an easy day 1 lynch and then I get harder to lynch as the day goes on.
- You majorly overestimate your ability to read me.
- You overestimate my ability to look townie.
- You don't actually scum read me but know that I'm most likely to scum tell as a day 1 wagon and hence want to get me to that position as your plan for reading me.

I don't think it's the first option since I wouldn't expect you to also be calling NSG out as scum and this point and I can only hope it's the 4th option.

But seriously, if you are scum reading me because my town game is blatantly obvious and I don't look townie enough yet, then stop. using. that. as. a. tell. for. me. Both you and the worst seem to expect me to look townie from the get go. That's not how I work. In our last game, I wasn't obvious town until after you died. That was day 3.

i'm writing mutant off as town for now

[northsidegal]

?????

if you're joking can you stop

Could you explain your scioness read?

she doesn't appear to be playing the game much - a lot of fluff and very little actual solving.

[northsidegal]

he's fine

why'd you switch your vote to him earlier?

[northsidegal]

i'm writing mutant off as town for now

Probably not helping his view on us

the only thing people ever scumread me on is really bad associations. i just ignore it now

[northsidegal]

oh come on nsg

you can do better than that

becuase he popped up in post review

i assummed there was some non-random reason for the switching of your vote

[northsidegal]

-shrug-

there's more scum indicative content in RVS than people realize

[northsidegal]

8 pages already. Give me time to go over.

lets start with this one VOTE: NSG

why?

[northsidegal]

meh, i've been neglecting this game. one moment.

[northsidegal]

Lol I thought this game took place exclusively in the PTs...

I’m an idiot.

hey math, remember wh4t from "chill mafia" and the towntell there?

do you think the same thing applies here?

[northsidegal]

@mutant

, when did you realize that the game didn't take place exclusively in the PTs?

[northsidegal]

meh

something something bayesian probability and occam's razor

just let him respond

[northsidegal]

what are your thoughts on scioness

[northsidegal]

alrighty then

(this is me deliberately not saying more except that i still scumread her)

[northsidegal]

mylo is town i'm pretty sure

[northsidegal]

anyone voting unrealseal should read lynchpin and talk about how it compares

anyone voting wingedcatgirl should read echo bay grits seo (or at least just her iso) and talk about how it compares

this isn't a townread or defense of either of these two, just me trying to outsource reads honestly (and just from a quick look at echo bay grits i could scumread wingedcatgirl)

[northsidegal]

i think arcangel also has a pretty decent shot of being scum

RVS past rvs scumtell plus a real lack of any seeming effort to sort people from her posts

VOTE: arcangel

[northsidegal]

here's my "hot take" scum poe (probably shouldn't put much weight into this, just kind of what i'm thinking right now)

Scioness Sajj
Mathdino
wingedcatgirl
Invisibility
ArcAngel9

[northsidegal]

why?

[northsidegal]

do i project that much confidence?

[northsidegal]

do i project that much confidence?

(this is to say, do i truly appear to be so confident?)

[northsidegal]

-shrug-

originally i was kind of coming around to townreading the "i'm surprised you're scumreading me" but then i realized that for this kind of situation where there's someone with a track record of reading someone else correctly there's really not many other ways to respond, and i've seen the exact same thing before from scum.

[northsidegal]

what's that supposed to mean?

[northsidegal]

why aren't you worried?

[northsidegal]

To whom it may concern,
I think town is NSG seal mutant wingedcatgirl and math,

Sincerely,

Awoo

have you been following along with the game?

[northsidegal]

mathdino, i summon you

[northsidegal]

really I just want to lynch all lurkers. i've never seen any reason to lurk in an all VT game.

i think a good percentage of the people who lurk don't do so intentionally.

i think i'm actually coming around to winged being town this game.

[northsidegal]

NSG why am I here why have you summoned me

-shrug-

wanted you to play the game, get the game moving

it was pretty inactive yesterday

[northsidegal]

here's my "hot take" scum poe (probably shouldn't put much weight into this, just kind of what i'm thinking right now)

Scioness Sajj
Mathdino
wingedcatgirl
Invisibility
ArcAngel9

i guess i'd take wingedcat out of this (for now)

i was just kind of writing off stefan as town so for the sake of just being sure i guess i'd put awoo back in

apart from that i think i'm good

[northsidegal]

probably, although nothing comes to mind immediately.

[northsidegal]

i liked post 264 since that was exactly what i was thinking

264 was exactly what you were thinking?

you followed along with echo bay grits and lynchpin?

[northsidegal]

hey scioness

can you give me a conclusion that you've come to

[northsidegal]

Myloninja is my strongest townread.

[northsidegal]

NSG why are you not townreading me/why am I in your PoE pool wtf
Also your PoE pool is uncomfortably small, those all seem like lynchbaity people plus me (I'm an odd one out)

And after NSG answers the above
Awoo why are you townreading me

why should i be townreading you? your annoyance at wavemode earlier in the game reminded me of something you said yourself about your scumgame being more emotional, the joking around you did earlier irked me the wrong way and i don't really agree with you on your mutant push.

it's not a strong read, but i'm not comfortable calling you town.

i don't think scioness is lynchbait at all. maybe invisibility, yeah, but i just can't read him. arc is definitely lynchbait too, but the thing is that they still need to be sorted. you can't just

always

write off lynchbait-y players as town.

[northsidegal]

ever get p-edited by something and then start responding to that post except due to the timing / positioning it looks like you ignored it initially

[northsidegal]

hey scioness

can you give me a conclusion that you've come to

(this is an unironic question, by the way)

[northsidegal]

actually scioness you can just forget about the question for now

[northsidegal]

UNVOTE:

[northsidegal]

awoo, have you ever played with mutant before?

[northsidegal]

i wonder if this is the game where i should try ellibereth's method and just spend massive amounts of time doing metadives. nearly everyone here has enough play history where it might work.

[northsidegal]

i did, the ellibereth-machine said that you're scum

[northsidegal]

(but in all seirousness, if you're town then i'm still not seeing it.)

[northsidegal]

hahaha. i'm dying to hear your reasons for scumreading me.

[northsidegal]

UNVOTE:

why?

best not to rush things, isn't it?

[northsidegal]

how many years will that be?

[northsidegal]

I mean, if it came to AA9 or me, then yeah I will pick AA9.

I look skummy because I am me and I have looked skummy in every game I have ever played. So a wagon starts. Then skum makes a counter wagon on a lurker, which the tards will eat up. One of us is lynched. Tomorrow there will be some random case on another person, then the next it will switched back to the alive member.

Also, you are town so can we stop arguing please?

this post is so awful lol. overly self-preservative, defending yourself with meta, and trying to stifle discussion by calling the other guy town.

new theory: both uglyduck and AA9 are scum

self meta is a towntell

[northsidegal]

disagree

[northsidegal]

scioness

[northsidegal]

"Self meta is a towntell" lolwut nsg.

I wouldn't call it a scumtell but it definitely isn't a towntell.

you're straight up wrong. i don't care about wording this any other way.

[northsidegal]

I have no idea how you are able to put mylo/catgirl in any category that isn't null or lynchable. They're not even your neighbors. Do you have a telepathic read on them?

meta him

this isn't a "meta him he's obvious town", this is me saying that i think you should look at his town meta and scum meta and tell me how you think it compares to this game

[northsidegal]

"Self meta is a towntell" lolwut nsg.

I wouldn't call it a scumtell but it definitely isn't a towntell.

you're straight up wrong. i don't care about wording this any other way.

to clarify: obviously context matters here, but in most situations it is.

[northsidegal]

scioness

northsidepal if this came down to a scioness vs a nullread i'd lynch scioness for you, but i have other targets and i'm townreading sci

i'm gonna need you to show me how scioness's play is inconsistent with her towngame

- you said she was fluffy and active lurking, but she was high-content in that newbie scumgame with gemini IIRC. it seems like that's only consistent with her PYP meta

it doesn't necessarily have to be a meta read - you can just take it as a general scumread. scioness doesn't seem to actually be solving the game. i think a good example would be the empty "what are your reads" questions she's asked a few people:

Wingedcatgirl do you have any thoughts about players? Any reads?

since you are actually here Mylon

have any thoughts to share?

these are the kind of questions that are really easy to ask as scum, make it look like you're actually playing the game and don't actually require any follow-up (which scioness didn't give). scioness hasn't mentioned wingedcatgirl or mylo since she asked them this question, so i can only assume that she didn't actually take anything that they said into account. this is what i was trying to evoke with this question, to see if scioness actually was doing something with those questions but just wasn't posting it in the thread:

hey scioness

can you give me a conclusion that you've come to

but as far as i can tell from what she's posted so far there's nothing.

and also ellitell slightly in terms of activity and maybe some other ~reasons~ involving depth

- hasn't she also fluffed/active lurked as town?

no? i don't think so.

[northsidegal]

I'm a little peeved with NSG for this gamestate

Like I recognize that not voting is a style and works when the town can kind of run and wagon by itself

But that's not happening, and this town has essentially 0 direction or unity

And I can't exactly push a case when NSG isn't even doing shit herself

NSG please vote ffs this is the one kind of gamestate where you need to be voting

been isck

VOTE: scioness

by the way, i like that the bird is back scioness

[northsidegal]

the kind of player i am is realistic. i think you do have okay reasons to townread uglyduck, i just disagree with them. and even if i did agree with them, i still wouldn't consider them actionable since meta can be very easily manipulated, both purposefully when you know you're playing with people who have seen your scumgame before, and incidentally by getting better at the game of mafia and by random life factors. i would never lock someone away as do-not-lynch purely on the basis of meta

i dont necessarily disagree with you (except for how easily meta can be manipulated especially by uglyduck especially no offense uglyduck just a comment on how good i think your scumgame is) but every time ive seen this conversation had the person with the meta townread has been right every single time

[northsidegal]

I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm starting to want to policy lynch NSG

that's stupid

[northsidegal]

Like she's scumreading scioness but doing fuckall to actually test that scumread

She's either incompetent at basic townplay this game or I was wrong earlier

to test it? what is tha tsupposed to mean?

i tested it by asking the question of one of the conclusions she had come to, but then i realized tha ti could just as easily test it by waiting to see if she said any of those conclusions herself without me indicating that i was looking for something in specific

i can't remember myself "testing" scumreads very often before. where are you getting this idea from?

[northsidegal]

(i also think this was probably you testing to see how i'd react to being incompetent, but that could just be me thinking (hoping?) that you're not actually calling me incompetent)

[northsidegal]

being

called

incompetent, that is, as per jjh last game

[northsidegal]

My paranoia is that she's avoiding being BoPd on how generally good she is at reading scioness

consider that after my previous times reading scioness i don't want to ruin my "record"

having thought about it more though i decided that that really isn't a way to play the game so even if i'm wrong here i think i'm going to be pushing for it harder. even if i was wrong and got nightkilled after i would have pushed for my top scumread, which is at least better than having been right and not done enough. sorry scioness if i'm wrong.

[northsidegal]

If you really think she can be bop on my slot then we should flip me.

i also get the feeling that this is a gambit. obviously my pre-existing view had you as scum and as such coming from that mindset this would have to be a gambit, but even evaluated on its own i think this should be seen as a gambit.

as far as i can remember this game and from what i've checked so far you've never on your own asked me what the reasons i've been scumreading you for are. the absence of that seems strange to me for someone who not only believes that i can read them, but believed that i entered the game "confidently scumreading" them (from post 273)

in fact, if anything you've kind of ignored me so far. you didn't really respond to anything i said when i entered the game outside of my

direct questions

to you. that doesn't really make sense to me coming from town you if you townread me - if you can explain that to me, i'd like to hear it. this reminds me of kind of an RC-style point - especially after 721, i feel like scioness as town should show at least a little bit more interest is what i have to say. scioness asking mylo and wingetcatgirl about their reads but mostly ignoring me comes to mind and serves as kind of a noteworthy juxtaposition.

---

even if you scumread me from my entrance, the point still stands. you certainly haven't put much into any sort of effort to lynch me or even convince people that i'm scum at all if you believe that i'm scum misreading you. these are your mentions of me being scum:

why not wagon nsg?

Whatever you need to justify that read

That you're getting scum points but I'm not really worried about you

Enough competent people around that won't let you coast through the game

to me, that doesn't really sound like someone who truly scumreads me, nor does it sound like someone who thinks that i'm town but is misreading her. it really just sounds to me like you're scum and kind of awkwardly handling the situation.

[northsidegal]

meh it's a good thing

you won't claim you can read me anymore

does it bother you? sorry, if so.

if it changes anything, i think the only time i said that (if i said it at all) was as scum justifying my fake read on you - in 721 i never said "i can read you", i just mostly talked about meta and what i thought of your play that game as coming from my own point of view, as all reads come from.

[northsidegal]

i even put "record" in quotes here as it kind of made me grimace typing it out. i think it's always been something that other people have built up for me rather than something that i've talked about myself (except perhaps as scum).

consider that after my previous times reading scioness i don't want to ruin my "record"

[northsidegal]

are you pushing for my lynch or apologizing about mislynching me?

i mean you have been loud about wanting to read me well, i guess you just got lucky

there's no reason i can't do the first thing and then pre-empt the second should it be necessary -shrug-

on a game-relevant note, are you really saying that, if you're town, my misreading you this once here is an indication that i've just been lucky the other times? that seems like kind of a disingenuous / manipulative thing to say

[northsidegal]

why so?

i assume that your ability to read me should get progressively better, not worse. if you are reading me here for the same things you were reading me in PYP then yeah i think that was actually luck.

people seem to assume that more of my reads are based on meta than they actually are. i suppose that in 721 it was my meta knowledge of you that even gave me my scumread in the first place, but this game it wasn't really meta that started it in the first place - it's meta that can kind of confirm that some of the things that i'm seeing may actually be relevant. it's not accurate to say that it's for the "same reasons", i.e. the same tells or whatever. (my read on you in 721 was a toneread anyways)

i'll give an example (for no reason in particular i guess, just feeling in a writing mood right now i suppose). in a game that just finished recently, Open 728, i scumread jjh for an inconsistent / nonsensical thought process that only made sense to me coming from scum as well as an awkward white knight.

Spoiler: here are those posts if you care

but seriously, i think jjh is scum. given his reasoning for unvoting zoronos in 31 i don't even understand why he was voting him in the first place.

i don't get why he even brings up me being more interested in him than in my own wagon if he doesn't have any conclusion to draw from it. i don't see how it's "worth noting" in the first place, then?

i also think his vote on blackstar for blackstar voting zoronos is kind of an awkward white knight. sure, zoronos looks kind of towny here, but i'm not sure if these were entirely warranted:

VOTE: BlackStar

That's how you get to happen. He's been an extremely positive presence in getting out of RVS

Looks more legit to me than what you're saying

this is also worth noting - the vote on pintu was essentially RVS at a point where serious things were being discussed and

and

after he said that he prefers to break away from RVS sooner as a justification for his initial vote on zor.

I think the faster we break away from RVS, the better, and to do that generally involves making a mountain out of a molehill and then stripmining that mountain for its precious content

No idea what I'm making of it yet


VOTE: Pintu

Mr Blue Sky!

there was talk of his meta and him being obvtown as town at the time, but meta wasn't what gave me my read on him in the first place. it's kind of the same thing with you here - from what i initially read that you had posted, i just got the sense that you weren't actually sorting. it wasn't necessarily related to you as a player specifically, just what i saw in your ISO, same as jjh.

later on in the game when there was still deliberation about who to lynch, i looked specifically at jjh's meta and got more specific reasons to scumread him:

Spoiler:

i also have yet to really look through JJH's meta, but if i find that in his town games he

doesn't

do this "one liners only and not really all that engaged with this game"...

i don't actually know what i'm going to do. sigh loudly to myself, i guess.

i don't think JJH has quoted to respond to a single thing this game that didn't directly mention him or ask him a question. if someone can find me an example of this - i'm being completely sincere here - i would be interested to see it.

and i think that situation and this one are pretty comparable (i hope they're comparable in a lot of ways, given that jjh flipped scum) - my initial read didn't really have much to do with meta at all, but later on i found meta specific reasons for

more

reasons to scumread that person, rather than finding from a metadive that what i was seeing was actually NAI or even town-indicative.

[northsidegal]

i assume that your ability to read me should get progressively better, not worse. if you are reading me here for the same things you were reading me in PYP then yeah i think that was actually luck.

(also, that's a pretty brutal standard: you can't have a

single game

of misreading someone, or it was always just luck in the first place?)

In post 624, Scioness Sajj wrote:
If you really think she can be bop on my slot then we should flip me.

i also get the feeling that this is a gambit. obviously my pre-existing view had you as scum and as such coming from that mindset this would have to be a gambit, but even evaluated on its own i think this should be seen as a gambit.

gambit based on lynching me d1?

are you saying it couldn't be a gambit? honest question.

[northsidegal]

as far as i can remember this game and from what i've checked so far you've never on your own asked me what the reasons i've been scumreading you for are. the absence of that seems strange to me for someone who not only believes that i can read them, but believed that i entered the game "confidently scumreading" them (from post 273)

why would I ask for your reasons? i believe you can read me, i never knew how you could do that. besides that, you have pretty early explained those reasons to math so.

if you believe that i can read you and you're town, it should be strange to you that i was scumreading you. i imagine that town!you should have been curious about that - more questioning.

on the other hand, if town!you considered my scumread on you to be a scumclaim, then i also imagine that town!you should have said more about my being scum. that also hasn't happened.

obviously i have more reasons (more reasons that i'm currently taking a break from typing to write this), but i think this is a pretty good core of my reasons on you being scum.

[northsidegal]

i really don't feel like discussing any of this, it's not like i'm going to out argument you

i will write down some sort of readlist tomorrow and we can lynch me.

if that's the way you prefer it to be.

sorry for seemingly making this game less fun for you, no matter what your alignment is.

[northsidegal]

to continue my "reasons where i'm coming from in scioness being scum", it doesn't seem to me that she has any genuine convictions in scumreads. there's people she "would vote", but nobody that it seems like she really thinks is a great vote and wants to convince other people on.

i want anyone reading this to keep this post in mind:

I don't think not lynching is a good idea.

i felt a little better about Mutant after some of his new posts but i would vote him still. i think i'd vote anybody but math and bujaber.

aa9 over UD. wingedcatgirl over mylon. don't understand people townreading seal. would also consider nsg but here's probably no support for this.

---

now, lack of confidence / conviction on its own (and ignoring meta) isn't necessarily scum indicative and can vary from game to game, but i just don't see behavior that i expect from town scioness.

for example, let's look at the line "don't understand people townreading seal". luckily, a similar situation happened in Newbie 1867 where scioness was scumreading a person that someone else was townreading. in that game, Ircher had Harambey as town along with a list of posts that he felt were towny or scummy, but without reasoning. people asked him to provide reasoning in general, but he refused and wanted people to ask him to provide reasoning on specific posts. (if you'd like to read the full context for yourself i recommend starting here

now, instead of asking ircher for reasoning on specific posts, scioness took the initiative and just started talking about the posts that he noted, giving

her own

take on them:

Ircher, I'm here! Alright, so I have decided to give me thoughts about the posts that stood up to both of us and you can agree/disagree give your own? I guess that's the best approach to this.

Spoiler: post 35, Harambey180

Vote: Harambey180

I think the fact that he hasn't posted yet is strange. He's been active onsite for a while after the L-1 wagon formed, and I think that it's likelier that he is scum who is avoiding posting for a little while in the hopes that what's mostly just a baseless wagon will die out than town who saw the wagon form and had nothing to say/could find nothing to address.

Other fairly equivalent votes I could see myself making are Alciel and creppy. I don't believe that either have them have done more than the bare minimum to play the game, which is sometimes a sign of scum who is uncomfortable.

The wagon was mostly formed thanks to RVS so I didn't have much to defend against.
Besides, wagons this early on hardly ever get said person lynched.

Why would I try to 'defend' myself against a wagon this early on? By staying silent I also won't give scum more information / opportunities to throw more shade in me. And the more I talk, the more I'm putting myself in a losing position based on the past. Because of how I verbalize things, I guess.

What bothers me about this posts is the use of 'defend' and how much Harambey shrug his lack of response off with pro-town motivation.
Nachomamma's post resolves around lack of reaction but Harambey answer is about defending himself. I understand '

The wagon was mostly formed thanks to RVS so I didn't have much to defend against. Besides, wagons this early on hardly ever get said person lynched.

' as him saying that he couldn't defend himself because there weren't any arguments against him and the wagon wasn't serious anyway. My conclusion is that he was concerned with overreacting and being lynched because of that and he sort of admits to it with the past experience part. That's okay, it's a reaction based on his experience.
But he put an emphasis on the thing being just an RVS wagon, which pings me because i believe it comes from his need to actually defend himself. Defense by trying to appear that he doesn't care.
The argument about staying silent so he won't give scum more info is pretty bad. Town needs to talk to get anything done and experience scum will always find something they can exploit. You can avoid this, scum will find a way to push if they want. I don't really understand why he had those thoughts when he is also trying to shrug the rvs as not important?

Plus, I agree that ofrhz jumped the gun here and should have waited longer to see how/if Harambey actually reacts to naked L-1. We don't know if Harambey saw the l-1 vote when it was posted or just got to the thread after he was at l-2. Still, I think it warranted a reaction as either alignment and was an opportunity to start a discussion.

Spoiler: post 45, Harambey180

"He didn't state a reason, so I voted for him" - why do you have a policy of voting people who don't state reasons?
"Didn't state mine since no one really asked him why for his vote" - I don't understand what other people's reactions to him has to do with how you approach him here; it seems a bit backwards to me. Like, I could see if you were voting for someone and didn't feel like stating reasons because they've already been said but I don't understanding voting someone and NOT giving reasons because no one else seemed to see or care about the same thing you did. Help me out?

His vote didn't have a reason compared to others that at least posted something though nothing concrete, it's my first game and I'm still testing the waters, I'm also waiting if someone would question my lack of reasoning since I don't know if not giving reasoning is that common or not.

Giving (good) reasoning will often make others trust you more than when you don't give any reasoning at all.
My vote was a random vote as we were in RVS, which stands for Random Voting Stage. In my opinion, random votes don't necessarily need reasoning. I mean, it's random, what would a reasoning be for a random vote?
Most people say something else like 'Hello everyone!' or a 'joke reasoning' as to why their random voted player should get more votes. Eventually there will be one player that has the most votes at some point. That person will then usually speak up so that the players have something to discuss about and over time, people will form reads. Then players will argue about each others' reads and posts and get someone lynched. This all started with the random voting stage.

I was that 'player' this time that got the most votes. So I had to speak to persuade people I'm a Townie (which, in fact, I am) and vote elsewhere.

At this point, most players will start to discuss my recent posts, and probably the ones of Nachomamma and I guess yours too.

I don't know how familiar you are with mafia games so I approached you here as if you're pretty new to the game. I hope this is okay as how it is.

I don't understand why you have got town vibes from this post. It's mostly game mechanics explaining post so that's nai to me. The only thing that stands out to me is the bolded part and I'm particularly fond of, the part in brackets, but not really scum read on its own.

Spoiler: post 210, Harambey180

Ircher's post 202 is pretty much a compilation of '28 things that you guys could have done better'. I like the effort you put into making such a long post consisting of 28 things you think about, but it's not quite my style.

Also, because it's a long post, it is probably a good idea to bold some parts like questions. I read about half of it because I don't want to spend too much time on this game and I have other things to do as well. If you asked me questions, then I missed them and please repeat them for me.

Your readslist is still pretty good though. It's not the type of readslist that I'm used to see but I can see you really thought well about your reads. I'm still not really fond about, how to say this, what you want with your posts. I can't really think of a way to say this that you will understand what I'm trying to say, but whatever.

Finally, when I saw that 'town leader' thing you said about me in your read on me, I remembered an idea I had earlier. I thought it would be a good idea if we had someone as a 'team leader' that coordinates everything that happens. Probably two people, because there's a chance that if we assigned this 'task' to one person, that person could be scum. If you picked two people that seem to absolutely disagree with eachother then the odds of both being scum is about 0 percent, so then you'd have at least one Townie in the team leader group. I don't know what you guys think...??

Should we need one or two people as team leader(s) to coordinate everything that happens in this game?

Things like: making sure that one discussion doesn't go out of hand, let people take turns, make sure that two topics aren't discussed at the same time (because that's less efficient imo). That's what I'm thinking of rn.

As we both were getting scum vibes from this post and I'm tired tell me first for what you are scumreading this one and I will elaborate tomorrow.

i find it hard to believe that the same person who went through all this trouble and just got all of her thoughts out there to talk to someone about a read they disagreed on would just leave things at "i don't understand why people are townreading this person". and it's not just that one post that i quoted at the top from this game that i feel shows the difference - i just don't many posts at all that resemble the one right above.

i'll be upfront in that it's not as if

no

posts of that nature exist in her ISO: i found one, but i think focusing on the simple presence makes less sense than focusing on the depth and frequency of them.

Spoiler: that post

Point I'm trying to make is that this low activity is making uglyduck and Sajj find things that IMO are just not there.

what have i said that you felt you need to dismiss it?

You've touched on this with mutant and it might be a perspective thing. But basically I think Seal's RVS posts that you talk about are neutral and quite normal for RVS. In your opinion you might be seeing something scummy like you told mutant but I don't and it felt to me that the quietness in thread is motivating you and others to look for things for the sake of looking.

I don't think Seal participated in RVS. It was not random at all.
First 24 hours after the game started the thread was pretty active and that's also the time when Seal posted for the first time.

Now if I didn't have a townread on you I'd be interpretting this differently but as you can see I'm quite open to the possibility that you did in fact find it scummy and have good reason to. So 3 options:

Where's that townread coming from even? What makes it so strong that you didn't reconsider it but you did with UglyDuck?
You are open to the possibility that what I find scummy is a product of boredom.

I thought it was 3 hence the comment. By the way 217 is incredibly hypocritical coming from you. Guess it's a good thing hypocrisy tends to be a towntell, unlike inconsistency which tends to be scummy.

He asked a question and I have answered the question exactly how it was asked, what's hypocritical about it? If you have 218 in mind then idk. I never complained about the game state.

For the record I think nsg has one of those metas where it's almost always better to not lynch them early.

What about NSG meta makes her always better to lynch her later instead of earlier?

[northsidegal]

meh. a lot of what you are posting is what you expect me to do/say/think wrt your slot and besides saying that i just didn't think of it like that there is much to say. i don't really think it's worth the effort.

only party of it, really. i think my points regarding your conviction in your reads is independent of your interactions with me.

(if you were townreading me in 721 then you have no reacord on reading me).

not

town

reading,

tone

reading, as in tone of voice. i decidedly was not townreading you in 721.

[northsidegal]

want to play some hangman?

- - - - - -

6 letters, you get 5 mistakes

[northsidegal]

[northsidegal]

(i also think this was probably you testing to see how i'd react to being incompetent, but that could just be me thinking (hoping?) that you're not actually calling me incompetent)

Why am I so fucking bad at reaction tests

I don't think I'm a bad actor, I can lie just fine as scum

Smh

maybe you're not bad, maybe i'm just too clever

[northsidegal]

If sajj flips town I'm considering this wagon a scumclaim by nsg. And if she is then I'm finally alive in a game to witness it. Her scumgame is evidently top notch if this is how she builds fake cases. I have only seen her lurking side.

I don't think a single post in this paragraph is right, maybe only the last one.

[northsidegal]

@Nsg (unless you think I'm scum which would need to be addressed as it ruins this particular point) - read my interactions with sajj from 381 onwards until my revote on duck. Do you think scum!sajj would bother to correct me? All she did was state a simple fact that made me jump to all sorts of conclusions that could have easily lead to an Awoo lynch and she would have gotten no heat over it and in fact possibly gotten me lynched over it also. Basically I find that behavior really odd for scum unless she's partners with awoo but that's doubtful considering she claimed stefan hoped that I'm town this game. I can't imagine stefan saying that to his own scum partner. And I also can't imagine scum!sajj came up with that lie because it would involve looking up games I've played with stefan then reading our interactions with them then correctly guessing that it is something he would say.

Posting from phone so it's hard to be as in-depth as I'd like. I find the context slightly hard to follow but I don't particularly think it's relevant. I don't think scioness as scum would try to take easy mislynches, although this is mostly conjecture. You can read for yourself a 36 page scum PT she was in to decide for yourself.

I think it's not impossible that Awoo is scum with scioness.

After we've decided on a lynch but before it happens, would everyone be alright posting the full contents of their PTs? There's something I've been thinking about.

Obviously no need to double up.

[northsidegal]

she either is super overconfident in her read on me here or scum - don't think she would threat my slot like that if it was any other case.

i don't think i've expressed that much confidence at all in my read. the opposite, actually - i've made it clear that i doubt myself and yet i feel there's nothing else to do but to push my top scumread.

650 is awful. i can't tell if it's a misrep on purpose or not but

do not sheep nsg

in this game after i flip green.

explain what i misrepresent?

i think the accuracy of my read on you has only a little to do with the accuracy of my reads on other players, but i suppose this is a conversation better had after flips, assuming i'm still alive.

[northsidegal]

Posting from phone so it's hard to be as in-depth as I'd like. I find the context slightly hard to follow but I don't particularly think it's relevant. I don't think scioness as scum would try to take easy mislynches, although this is mostly conjecture. You can read for yourself a 36 page scum PT she was in to decide for yourself.

jesus christ stop this
what the hell makes you think i wouldn't take an easy mislynch? from which of my scumgames did you get that idea?

it's just my feeling of you. like i said, mostly conjecture. i guess it's from 1851 and how towny everyone thought you were there.

[northsidegal]

-shrug-

sorry.

[northsidegal]

I think it's not impossible that Awoo is scum with scioness

Interesting. That point is stronger in my mind than my townread of sajj. If I am sure of

anything

this game is that awoo and sajj are not scum partners. If one of them flips scum I will literally never vote for the other. Really didn't think it'd be even possible to disagree with this part.

As in I may be able to just accept that since this is my first game with sajj I should just trust your read on her, but you have to be able to see how impossible it is that they are partners.

why?

[northsidegal]

If both are scum why would stefan say this to her? They'd know I am.

This is the crux of where I think your reasoning is questionable. It's not difficult to fake.

[northsidegal]

Sci suppose you and NSG are tvt tearing each other apart

Then what

i don't think town nsg ever does things like she did here (and if she does then i will totally blame her if we lose). there is no reason for town her to make up things that she did and if she is so confident in my scumflip that she doesn't need to interact with me (not to mention that i'm awful with interacting with my scummates so asking me about my reads and other stuff would potential give good direction - 4 people here should be able to confirm that), ignores most of the things i have posted but if she is actually town then she should be blamed.

i don't think this is reasonable (and I think you say some things that just aren't true), but i don't really think i should respond.

[northsidegal]

my making things up
your view of my confidence
my being responsible for an entire loss given a single incorrect read

i feel it best to not respond further because i believe you're currently attempting to emotionally manipulate me (and, by proxy, the rest of the town).

[northsidegal]

my making things up

do you actually think that profii and ofrhz weren't easiest lycnhes?

i was speaking mostly from memory. i made the fact that it was just a gut feeling clear.

your view of my confidence

you have walked in with a scumread and you never expressed any doubts. that's pretty confident to me.

i believe i have expressed doubts.

[northsidegal]

Along those lines, scum NSG has previously killed me while I was townreading her so while I expect you guys not to lynch UglyDuck, wave, or BuJaber, I don't expect 100% sheeping on NSG
Figure it out as you go

by the way, math

can you not say things like this? like, could you put a bit more into reading me before the day ends?

especially given bujaber's history and what he's already said given the situation of scioness being town i'd rather not turn this game into more of a disaster than it is

i'm certain someone will call this "knowing scioness will flip town" or something of the sort. to them i would say that asking math to read me more doesn't make sense coming from me as scum.

[northsidegal]

if you are referring to 'ooops -shrug- sorry but you are my strongest scumread' then those aren't doubts. you didn't actually have any doubts because you don't have any progression on my slot this game.

my lazy vote on you and subsequent voting / focusing elsewhere were my doubts manifesting. i talked about this here:

My paranoia is that she's avoiding being BoPd on how generally good she is at reading scioness

consider that after my previous times reading scioness i don't want to ruin my "record"

having thought about it more though i decided that that really isn't a way to play the game so even if i'm wrong here i think i'm going to be pushing for it harder. even if i was wrong and got nightkilled after i would have pushed for my top scumread, which is at least better than having been right and not done enough. sorry scioness if i'm wrong.

when you say i haven't had any "progression" on you, what you mean is that i haven't changed my read, right? yes, my scumread on you hasn't

changed

much - what's your point?

that's not scum indicative, if you're trying to imply that it is. i did the exact same thing to jjh in open 728, thinking he was scum all throughout day 1.

[northsidegal]

other people need to know that

[northsidegal]

but why would you bother to consider the gamestate right

i did. i explicitly mentioned that in my post.

other people need to know that

Town you is capable of defending yourself from a lynch just fine without me

Scum you, not as much

partition mafia.

if you actually think i should deathtunnel seal just becuase i scumread him of those few posts he has made but most of the people are either townreading him or just shrugging me off when i ask about that read then idk who do you think i am.

if this is talking to me then it's a misrepresentation of what i was saying. i never said "deathtunnel" - i never even implied it. you didn't even seem to talk much about it, which was the comparison i was making.

[northsidegal]

partition mafia.

You weren't the only one being lynched there

Plus there were 3 scum controlling the board

everyone thought wisdom was town, it was a lynch solely on me.

[northsidegal]

NSG do you seriously think this brinksmanship is still scum wtf

pintu in open 714

as much as sometimes i get stomach pangs and consider doing a heel turn, i don't think it's a good idea.

[northsidegal]

Let's talk about this game. We know your stance on sajj. And now that I've had a glimpse into the version of reality you live in I don't envy the difficult position you must put yourself before any vote. The decision on who to vote for at any time in any game must be agonizing to you if you are considering every possibility no matter how improbable it is. 1 But I want to know what you think of duck and aa9. 2 I want to know why you made the conscious choice of derailing two healthy counterwagons that split up pretty much the entire playerbase and why you made this decision less than 4 days before deadline. Do you really townread them so strongly? Do you think if sajj is scum they have to be town? Why is a sajj lynch so urgent? 3

1 - is this sarcasm? i'm not sure where this is coming from. what have i said or done that's made you say this?

2 - i think uglyduck is probably town. i'm not really sure on arcangel. i don't really townread her, but obviously i'd rather not lynch her today.

3 - i didn't make the conscious choice to derail anything, i made the conscious choice to push my top scumread. it has nothing to do with my reads on them. i think uglyduck is town regardless of scioness' alignment, and for arcangel i really have no idea. i think for arcangel it's worth mentioning that the times scioness has rolled scum she very much looks for support from her scumbuddies in the scum PT - you can check this for yourself in the newbie 1851 and open 721 scum threads.

Spoiler:

Subject: Open 721 - Mafia Thread Poison Peddlers

why is nobody talking

talk to me i need

emotional
support

initially i was going to say that that probably points towards a non-lurker scumbuddy but i guess there's nothing to really imply that. that is, if scioness were to be scum, i don't think i could tell the difference between scioness who had an active partner to talk to and scioness who had a lurker partner.

[northsidegal]

Scioness Sajj (5) (L-1): Mathdino, northsidegal, Awoo, wingedcatgirl, Myloninja13, Scioness

perhaps Math and NSG would like to contemplate the quality of this wagon's tail end

i still believe mylo is town. scioness self-voting and saying that i shouldn't be trusted certainly hurts me emotionally, but i don't think i should let that change anything.

[northsidegal]

it's that she literally just straight up asked for a hammer from someone, with no reason to think that someone else would be online to get cold feet and unvote

that doesn't really change anything for me, nor do i think it's impossible to come from scum.

[northsidegal]

good reads plural or are you just saying that i'm wrong on scioness

[northsidegal]

i'm apparently still in your poe pool despite being more pro-town than i generally am as scum (jumping off mislynches is a general scumtell but not a me scumtell)

what gives you this idea? "apparently" according to what?

i'm not totally sure you actually have other scumreads, or care about generating other scumreads
or care about tiered townreads?

i believe that scioness is scum and she's currently being wagoned. it doesn't make sense to me to be focusing a lot of effort elsewhere in terms of scumreads before a flip.

[northsidegal]

this is your last PoE pool and you haven't updated it since
other than refusing to help me lynch AA9

usually you update it when you change it but you've spent all your time wasting 2 pages walling scioness

and usually you DO have other scumreads ffs

and yet you ask me to go through the effort of defending you harder for the situation in which scioness flips town?
rather than actually helping the game by giving more reads? or a read on me?

i wouldn't call my posts regarding scioness a waste of time considering that they seem to have convinced at least some people.

i do have other scumreads. i think invisibility, arcangel, maybe unrealseal, maybe wcg and maaybe awoo could be scum.

i believe the best way i can help the game right now is by lynching scioness.

[northsidegal]

UNVOTE:

[northsidegal]

VOTE: invisibility