Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[Lefty]

VOTE: Gustavo

Hello!

[Lefty]

Ah. Wave mode the poet guy lol.

So long as he keeps talking about how ripped my back is I’m pretty ok with it

[Lefty]

VOTE: lefty
Haven’t seen a train this exciting since college.

How was the receiving end?

[Lefty]

But I don't want to be the counter-wagon.

Irony.

[Lefty]

@Performer I'm a hidden alt and I believe Gustavo is hidden aswell

This is a regular thing on MS?

[Lefty]

So, how about that Lefty wagon?

How about it?

[Lefty]

Two weeks are pretty long imo but I came here looking for a bit of a slower pace gameplay so I don’t mind it all that much.

@BBT - are you gonna actually give a reason for your push? You are creeping out of ~reaction testing territory imo. What do you make of Invis and the other guy wagoning you instead?

[Lefty]

How about it?

I'd like it to take off and potentially lead to a lynch.

Thoughts on that?

Wrong wagon imo.

[Lefty]

I mean, you have to say that so...do you suggest someone better to wagon?

Atm I don’t. I am probably the newest person here both with the roster and on MS in general so I’m gonna slow play a lot of my reads until I feel I get a better grasp of the gameplay here. So far I am more interested in engaging with you because you’re coming across as bombastic

[Lefty]

@BBT - are you gonna actually give a reason for your push? You are creeping out of ~reaction testing territory imo. What do you make of Invis and the other guy wagoning you instead?

y so serious?

The dude called for more votes on my wagon like 2-3 times. I’m allowed to ask lol

[Lefty]

@BBT - are you gonna actually give a reason for your push? You are creeping out of ~reaction testing territory imo. What do you make of Invis and the other guy wagoning you instead?

y so serious?

The dude called for more votes on my wagon like 2-3 times. I’m allowed to ask lol

i dont like to call it rvs... more like random wagoning stage.

Random wagoning is all good and fine. I was just seeing what BBT had to say since they pushed it several times

[Lefty]

im not a fan of things that are easy tpo say for ppl to look town. especially early.

Fwiw I don’t think this was addressing the “I’m Town pls love me” post

But TChill can expand on that

[Lefty]

not saying you couldn't

Was there a point you were trying to make here?

[Lefty]

I don't have much else to say on your wagon - but with the current gamestate I am even more inclined to push you now.

You’re retroactively making a reason to sustain the push now?

Like talk me thru it here. I get wagoned for lulz, whatever. You call for more votes. I ignore the first time thinking it’s likely you’re just poking me to see if I squirm and maybe to see how others treat the wagon. Fair enough. No one really bites so you do it again. Still no one bites. Then you do it a third time, and instead of joining on me you get snap voted by two others.

All the while I’m asking what your game is, which you refuse to answer, and get another vote.

So now that you have been pushing me for no discernible reason, and people are voting you for it, you’re using that as a sign to push me further? That’s your angle?

[Lefty]

Okay - so because of something that you’re intentionally doing, which could probably be seen bad from a Townie POV as much as an easy angle to push for scum, that makes it more likely that I am scum?

I’d really like you to flesh out your thought process here.

[Lefty]

I’m not saying you’re bad or what you’re doing is bad. It’s pretty transparent tbh - I’m just trying to figure out how you’re evaluating it. Others could view it badly, so your conclusion is what bothers me.

There’s also nothing I’ve done to make you think Town?

[Lefty]

i was addressing this interaction from invisibility. its easy to spew town this early on a stance like that. It's not "fluff". It's invisibility purposefully looking town. tbh i believe scum have more to gain from spewing town early and seek to do so more than actual townies.

Wouldn't Town say the same thing on that topic? So the difference is people not mentioning it and (from you pov) Invis going out of their way to say it?

[Lefty]

There may be something that tells me you're town - but I want to ignore it for now.

@BBT lefty is either scum or new town. New scum would react the same way though. I dont think his reaction is AI. Scum would surely know the 1st wagon never goes through and would welcome it instead of fighting it so meticulously. That's the only reason i'd lean town on lefty. Not saying i lean town on lefty yet for the record.

Lots of words to hedge on a null read.

[Lefty]

wavemode

BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

Lefty

ByronVilla

Invisibility

Gustavo
Gosrir Elmer Odels
Nosferatu
Performer
Tchill13
Tommy Egan

teacher

Can you explain why you have Teacher & TChill so low?

[Lefty]

Byron/BBT looks like Town to me. I get where Byron is coming from but BBT strikes me as a player who likes to be contrary, and I don't see the motive for scum to put attention on themselves for intentionally doing things that can be seen as negative.

I'm gut scum reading Gustavo right now.

pedit - @Wavemod - so POE?

[Lefty]

For now Byron v bbt is tvt.

I’ve got a good list of town reads so far. We should lynch teacher and go from there.

Mind sharing that list?

[Lefty]

This games a weird one, on one hand some people have gotten too deep too early and on the other some are stuck in RVS.

Blame the new guy
still trying to get a feel/the hang of playing on MS.
fwiw I thought this was a good post

[Lefty]

Stepping in but that's a odd question. The TChill part at least teacher is a scum read.

Tchill is a null read according to the list (judging by the colour code) and tbh I disagree with the reasoning that people are town reading him for but I want him to come in personally and answer my question.

It's like you are asking why aren't you town reading chill which strikes me as a odd thing to say as a townie.

I was looking at order of listed, not color. To me it looks like TChill is his 3rd highest scum read, so I was curious about that. If they're just grouped by color and not in any particular order - then ignore my question.

[Lefty]

VOTE: ByronVilla
this is scum

Why?

[Lefty]

For now Byron v bbt is tvt.

I’ve got a good list of town reads so far. We should lynch teacher and go from there.

Mind sharing that list?

Nah.

Cool.

You’d tell me if you were scum right?

[Lefty]

The colours normally mean reads green-town, black-null and red-scum. I'm not sure if they are ordered but even if they are it wouldn't necessarily means he scums reads him. What do you think he should be higher on the list?

P:edit
VOTE: Invisibility His just opportunistically jumping on what wagon may take off. I see no real thought process of his own.

Nah, I’m not saying he needs to be higher. I was curious as to what Wavemode was seeing if in fact I was reading his list correctly (in order and not by group), to see if we had similar impressions on that slot.

[Lefty]

@lefty, if you read my posts you could probably guess my town list with high accuracy

Maybe. I’d rather not try to guess than just like talk with you about reads, but I can understand the approach of letting things develop before showing all your cards.

It’ll just also make it hard for me to TR you

[Lefty]

@lefty, if you read my posts you could probably guess my town list with high accuracy

Maybe. I’d rather not try to guess than just like talk with you about reads, but I can understand the approach of letting things develop before showing all your cards.

It’ll just also make it hard for me to TR you

You should be more concerned with who I’m scum reading. I don’t see how you knowing who I town read helps.

We can talk scum reads too if you want. I’m really just looking for any sort naunced read other than arguing the ~obvious logical standpoints you are currently. You just read calculated to me, hard to describe beyond saying gut vibes.

[Lefty]

We can talk scum reads too if you want. I’m really just looking for any sort naunced read other than arguing the ~obvious logical standpoints you are currently. You just read calculated to me, hard to describe beyond saying gut vibes.

Well that was kind of a test. I wanted to see how truly interested you were with knowing my town reads. I was hoping when I said you could find them by reading my posts you’d actually go look. You not doing that makes me feel like the request was rhetorical.

I guess you can say I’m being a little calculating, I feel that is a fair assessment of how I’ve been acting.

It wasn’t rhetorical, but okay. Off the top I know you said BBT/BV looks T/T. You kinda negged Wave for giving a reads list. You’ve been questioning Invis and you’re wagoning Teacher.

I didn’t need to go through your ISO to piece that together.

[Lefty]

Also I retract my earlier statement about Tommy’s #144 being good.

[Lefty]

Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.

I agree with this. But then why this:

Unfortunately, secret alts are all over the place. I'd sooner policy lynch em all!

VOTE: BV

107 is a commentary. Provides no information, communicates nothing, asks nothing, leads to nothing. So why make such a long post?

GEO, can you expand on these two reads and what you think they mean?

[Lefty]

How do you link post numbers?

[Lefty]

Cool, thanks.

I like your take on the roster. I’m in a pretty similar spot

[Lefty]

nosferatu is probably town

You’re starting to make this a theme. Garmr SR you and you said the same thing.

why tho

[Lefty]

it just so happens?

Nah like actual reasons

Why is Nos town

[Lefty]

Is this attitude of lynching players who are likely bad Town instead of scum common here?

I’ve seen it floated a few times.

P-edit: compelling

[Lefty]

FR he pretty much just regurgitated commentary that’s been hashed out pages ago. The only original take was calling out GEO.

I reward very few townies points.

[Lefty]

I don’t want to lynch either.

[Lefty]

I am voting the person I wanna lynch.

But I doubt that’s gonna happen today so I’d compromise on a few. Teacher and Performer aren’t two of those.

[Lefty]

Lefty talk about your teacher read please.

Still working a lot on gut reads atm.
He came out pushing people from gamestart which generally I think is Townie. I wasn’t in love with his post about not expecting an answer from you while asking for an answer, but his most recent one with reads was good imo.

Pedit: @Gus I made a few points yesterday that should tell you my read on you and why I haven’t moved my vote. It’s not RVS.

[Lefty]

Literally his first post was calling out Invis. He pressured you during our interaction. He’s moving to Gus now when there are more opportunistic targets to have.

He just doesn’t look like scum to me.

[Lefty]

Pedit: @Gus I made a few points yesterday that should tell you my read on you and why I haven’t moved my vote. It’s not RVS.

A gut read was all I saw. I also don’t see you trying to convince others. If you are town you’re being lazy. At least try to convince others to vote me. Lazy players are the 2nd worst.

I’ve got time. I’d rather let you continue wagon hopping on all the low hanging fruit so I have more to bury you with later. People are coming around already, I’m not sweating it.

[Lefty]

Literally his first post was calling out Invis. He pressured you during our interaction. He’s moving to Gus now when there are more opportunistic targets to have.
He just doesn’t look like scum to me.

@BBT

[Lefty]

Pedit: @Gus I made a few points yesterday that should tell you my read on you and why I haven’t moved my vote. It’s not RVS.

A gut read was all I saw. I also don’t see you trying to convince others. If you are town you’re being lazy. At least try to convince others to vote me. Lazy players are the 2nd worst.

I’ve got time. I’d rather let you continue wagon hopping on all the low hanging fruit so I have more to bury you with later. People are coming around already, I’m not sweating it.

That would imply I’ve wagon hopped on low hanging fruit which I haven’t done. You have nothing to bury me with, that’s your problem. I can explain my votes with reasons. You can’t do it.

Me/Teacher/Performer

I gave my reasons. You can try to dismiss it as a bad gut read, but I mentioned yesterday specifically that your interactions with Invis yesterday and how you were arguing smacks of calculated scum to me. You’re arguing the logical aspect but townies aren’t always logical with their play.

Also, asking BBT for reasons when you couldn’t be arsed to discuss any read with me yesterday is funny.

[Lefty]

I mentioned yesterday specifically that your interactions with Invis yesterday

Invis voted for a terrible reason. What’s wrong with calling that out? Please explain

There’s nothing wrong with it. That’s kind of the point. As either alignment I’d expect you to call people out, it’s

what

and

who

you’re calling out that looks shady to me. Like Invis was a pretty easy target there and your call out is ~justified. But it also doesn’t make Invis scum.

Also, asking BBT for reasons when you couldn’t be arsed to discuss any read with me yesterday is funny.

You asked for my town reads. Asking for reasons for a scum read is completely different

That’s not really what happened, was it?
I’ll paraphrase:

Gus: “I’ve got a nice list of town leans, let’s just lynch Teacher and see”
Lefty: “mind sharing that list?”
Gus: “nah. Why are you worried about my town reads and not scum reads?”
Lefty: “we can talk scum reads too if you want. I’m just looking for any sorta read”

You never got back to me on that.

[Lefty]

You’re also still arguing from the logic standpoint, which I think is not very difficult to do as scum. You’re countering my points by pointing at actions that are supposed to be Townie. I’m much more concerned about lynching who I think is scum than seeing who is acting the most Town.

I think TChill made a great point yesterday in response to your shading of Invis about them making BV look bad. TChill said scum don’t have to make Town look bad, they just need to look Town. I feel your efforts have been more to look Town than actually solve anyone.

[Lefty]

There’s nothing wrong with it. That’s kind of the point. As either alignment I’d expect you to call people out, it’s what and who you’re calling out that looks shady to me. Like Invis was a pretty easy target there and your call out is ~justified. But it also doesn’t make Invis scum.

this makes no sense. help me understand.

I was justified for calling him out but because i called him scum that makes me suspicious?

Nah, but I think you’re trying to miss the point on purpose. Invis was an easy target there, you don’t look bad at all for pushing on it. The vote did look bad, point being that the bad vote doesn’t make Invis scum and you’re showing a pattern of pushing LHF imo.

You never got back to me on that.

Well if we are being technical here, you never asked me for my scum reads.

Lol, cmon man. You’re gonna argue semantics with me here? It’s pretty obvious I wanted some thoughts/reads from you; Town or scum. I left the door open for you to make them on your own and you never did.

You’re also still arguing from the logic standpoint, which I think is not very difficult to do as scum. You’re countering my points by pointing at actions that are supposed to be Townie. I’m much more concerned about lynching who I think is scum than seeing who is acting the most Town.

i'm a logical person, what can I say. If you are interested in lynching scum you have to A. find them and B. convince others to do that.

You haven't done either of those things yet. I get you think i am scum, but your reasons for scum reading me aren't very good. You just don't like my playstyle which is fine, I am not really interested in arguing with you about your reasons, but i will push you to do part 2 of the job of a townie. You already said you are fine sitting back which is lazy or it's scum trying to avoid actual scum hunting.

This isn’t about playstyle. I’m perfectly fine with logical players, but in this instance I think the way you’re using logic to interact comes from a scummy POV. I could be wrong, maybe, but it’s D1 so I’m fine rolling with my gut and pushing you now that it’s on the table. I admit my case against you isn’t very strong yet, and lynching scum takes coordination. So from my POV is it better to let you continue doing our own thing and call my shots when I see them or death tunnel you from the get go and have everyone ignore it because there’s no real meat to the case yet?

I think you know the answer.

[Lefty]

This isn’t about playstyle.

But it is though. You are gut scum reading me because of my playstyle

No. I’m SR you because the shots you’re taking are scummy imo. Stop making this about something it’s not.

[Lefty]

It’s like your ignoring importance of interaction tells in favor of pointing out how you’re at least appearing to scum hunt. Scum gotta make pushes too and lynching scummy townies is the fast track to victory.

I’m a lot more interested in looking for who is taking the easy shots than lynching players that could just be scummy looking Town. Maybe that clashes with the meta on MS but I’m pretty against lynching townies because they’re liabilities. Lynching Town doesn’t advance my wincon.

[Lefty]

Lefty “looking” for people taking the easy shots meanwhile that’s exactly what he’s guilty of

Playing the victim now?
How is pushing completely against the grain taking an easy shot?

[Lefty]

This isn’t about playstyle.

But it is though. You are gut scum reading me because of my playstyle

No. I’m SR you because the shots you’re taking are scummy imo. Stop making this about something it’s not.

just because ppl continue to push LHF (i dont necessarily agree in this case on gus) doesn't mean that it's inexcusable. LHF implies you believe the ppl Gus have pushed are town or else you wouldn't be THAT upset with Gus. Why are the people Gus pushed town Lefty?

Not saying it’s inexcusable but to me Gus looks like he’s taking the path of least resistance. I don’t feel a lot of depth to his game and his way of arguing doesn’t feel genuine - it’s very calculated and clean as to where Invis/Performer/Teacher look like hot messes.

As an aside, we can agree to disagree. Maybe the town play isn’t strong here - or the scum play is just better - but where I played before taking a long break and then joining here, we routinely lynched scum D1. I get your viewpoint about not allowing bad Townies to end game (cold af btw lol) but I really just prefer lynching people who I think are scum than lynching people who just look like scum but could be Town. Idk if that makes sense but I doubt all of BV/Performer/Teacher/Invis are scum. Maybe one but could very be none at the same time.

[Lefty]

Lefty “looking” for people taking the easy shots meanwhile that’s exactly what he’s guilty of

Playing the victim now?
How is pushing completely against the grain taking an easy shot?

I’m not playing the victim. I’m calling it as I see it. You aren’t pushing against the grain. Others have indicated they scum read me or don’t town read me. That’s going with the grain sir.

You implied I called somebody scum when I didn’t and you said you scum read me for something town could do.

That’s taking easy shots.

I was the first to engage you about anything.

I called you a gut scum read yesterday and said exactly why. The way you’ve been arguing with my today doesn’t really change my original perception. You never voted Invis but you did attack in that instance and ended with a nice shade on their slot.

[Lefty]

but you could agree that BV/Performer/Teacher/Invis shouldnt be in lylo based on their play up to this moment correct?

In a perfect world we sweep the scum team and LyLo isn’t something I have to consider

Call me an optimist.

[Lefty]

@Gus - I do agree with you. Invis’s vote looked like shit after the BBT/BV exchange and as soon as it was made several of us questioned it immediately. I don’t care that you’re “right” in your position. Scum can argue from logical high ground to make Townies doing dumb shit look bad. That is what I feel you are doing, and it isn’t just with Invis. You’re now pushing Performer for doing a similarly “bad” post. I don’t care how “correct” your logic is - scum have to use logic as well. I care about the angles you’re working from, and those look like scum motives to me.

Anyway that’s all I’m gonna say on that. I’ll see how you go from here and let others weigh in but you’d be my preferred lynch for now unless it comes down to voting off someone “bad” and then if they flip Town pretending like we didn’t all see it coming.

[Lefty]

That’s fair TChill. I’ll leave it for now and let others weigh in

Regardless if I’m right or wrong on Gus, there’s still more scum to catch.

P-edit: Nah I’m not determined. His posts have just pinged me since game start and him arguing that his stances are “correct” in a vacuum doesn’t sway me at all. I feel that’s exactly the position scum would take.

[Lefty]

Then again maybe the scummy looking folk really are just bad scum and I’m actively stopping that progress. For that, I’ll lay off Gus and see what else develops.

[Lefty]

BBt, Gus, Lefty is my townblock.

Invis/teacher/performer/gosrir/BV should be lynched before lylo.

Nos is probably town.

im pretty much done with D1.

I get where you’re coming from about D1 and wanting more concrete info, but unless you really think all the scum are in those 5 then we lose this game every time blasting thru that POE. I don’t mind taking more time to sort. Longer DLs are harder for scum to keep up their fronts than on Town imo. Some players start slower than others.

[Lefty]

I also need to reread and process all the posts from this afternoon but I’m at work now so it’ll take a bit.

Off the top Tommy is beginning to concern me, as is Wavemode. Need to reread GEO cause I have no clue what they’re talking about. Byron is maybe a bit less of a TR pending my reread.

BBT/TChill never get lynched so long as I’m alive.

[Lefty]

@teacher - funny you should mention it because I play a lot from my phone as well, but I feel I miss things that I might not have if I had been reading on my laptop and taking more time to process. Part of why I came to MS was because I knew this site had longer DLs. 48/72h Days are stressful af. I’ve played in some that Day and Night cycle only lasted 24 hours.

[Lefty]

Where do you play with those deadlines?

I’ve played on a lot of sites. DragonMount, PerC, JetNation, Vendetta Strada. I’ve dabbled on Mafia Universe but that site is blocked on my phone unless it’s connected to WiFi.

I’m a disciple of Cory Curren’s School of Wolf Hunting.

[Lefty]

I’d lynch Invis over Performer but I wouldn’t feel spectacular about it.

[Lefty]

Cory Curren’s School of Wolf Hunting.

I suppose I could google, but you want to elaborate?

Just name dropping. If Gustavo plays on MU he might know who I’m talking about.

[Lefty]

He did. He said he saw that I thought Byron was scum but didn't see why.

Is that your only (and thus best) reasoning for what is your top scum read on page 17?

Or you got something else to share?

Well yeah but that doesn't change the fact he had a null stance on both of us. Usually at the end of a debacle like that some strong opinions will be made, and at least one of the two will have shifted from simply a null read. That didn't happen with Performer, which naturally is going to raise some question marks.

Rereading 211 I actually don’t mind that he doesn’t have a firm read on either you or BBT given where that read was made. His reason for not being sure on BBT is different than yours as well.

[Lefty]

for the record they're not ordered merely color coded

BlueBloodedToffee

ByronVilla

Lefty

Gosrir Elmer Odels

Nosferatu

Garmr
Invisibility
Gustavo
Tchill13

Tommy Egan

Performer

teacher

Not gonna lie when I saw you were catching up I was hoping for something better. A lot happened since you last posted.

With this list can you give any sort of reasoning on your town/scum reads? Or if there’s anything in particular that’s keeping players in your null group?

[Lefty]

With this list can you give any sort of reasoning on your town/scum reads?

I've explained many of them already. Who do you want to know about

Or if there’s anything in particular that’s keeping players in your null group?

The fact that they're null for me...?

Let’s start with the SRs on Tommy/Teacher. You’ve already explained Performer.

When did Invis go from a town lean back to null? Garmr and TChill haven’t done anything AI yet iyo?

[Lefty]

The depth in some of those reads are pretty nice. I forgot what Mafia felt like when you aren’t playing with loads of meta.

@teacher - a lot of those points you’re making about Gus just make him a hypocrite. Not sure I’d say it’s AI. To be clear, my issue with Gus so far is that his scum equity is high when thinking from the perspective that he’s been pushing a lot of ~Townies for easy/poor/opportunistic (insert adjective) reasons.

Like I know I’m Town. Performer looks Townish. I think you could be Town. Invis maybe Town, least sure on them of the bunch. I know it’s lolD1 but looking at the big picture of the directions he’s moved, he looks bad imo.

[Lefty]

@GEO could you explain what you meant by Gus’s wagon being in the air when Teacher voted? IIRC nobody had discussed him yet but me and Performer’s FOS. I was the only person voting Gus at the time.

[Lefty]

Actually I’ll just cut to the chase because I don’t think you’re representing that situation fairly to SR Teacher and it sorta strikes me as TMI irt Gus. I don’t remember you stating a read on that slot previously.

[Lefty]

UNVOTE: Gustavo
VOTE: Gosrir

[Lefty]

Gus you’re a fucking crybaby bro lol

[Lefty]

It’s all good, man. We can talk post game when all flips are revealed and I’ll just remind you that you were bad this D1 for who and what you were pursuing. For now though, suck it up Buttercup. If you can’t handle being handled like a suspect in a game of suspects, maybe Mafia isn’t the game for you.

[Lefty]

Nah, you’re really just a crybaby. I don’t care whether or not my reasons are consistent when I evaluate players. I just have to catch scum. You and someone like Invis are obviously different players on different levels. You can continue this robotic worldview but that’s probably why you’re SRing a bunch of players who are more likely town than not. That’s on you - not me. But you can be mad at me for saying you look like shit when you only push people for surface level stuff. Top notch, you are.

GEO wagon is a good wagon. He let on that he thinks/knows you’re Town in order to frame Teacher in a bad light. There was no previous mention of your slot or any sort of read to show where that came from.

[Lefty]

Yep. New info, new process.

You should try it

[Lefty]

We’ll see what shakes out of GEO. I suggest you do work instead of playing the victim and whining about how you got treated so unfairly by big bad mean Lefty

[Lefty]

@GEO could you explain what you meant by Gus’s wagon being in the air when Teacher voted? IIRC nobody had discussed him yet but me and Performer’s FOS. I was the only person voting Gus at the time.

It was pretty clear you were serious or about to get serious about your vote. You can go back & check, or just believe your own 253. With Perfomer's FOS, the game was bound to be about Gus for a few pages, so even though the wagon wasn't happening yet, it was as good as happening, so obviously one could join such a wagon. Teacher didn't get the wagon, though, gave wrong reasons, I'm voting him since then, you should do the same.
Of course, teacher being scum means that Gus is town, but I don't see why I'd need to assume Gus's townieness to reach my conclusion. (With that said, I do & did townread Gus to a degree.)

I still haven't reread the Gus vs Lefty part, I'll probably get to it on the weekend. Nonetheless, I don't think it'd give me much new info on either of them, but it should be useful for reading those who were discussing it at the time, in particular BBT & TC iirc. I have troubles forming reads about these two, so that should be fun. Cross-referencing BBT's posts with those of Garmr's & such.

Also, this game isn't that fast, it's manageable.

That post was two pages after Teacher voted Gus though. So although I’d said he was a gut scum read prior, my vote was otherwise RVS up to that point to anyone else. Performer’s FOS wasn’t that strong and he voted Invis at the end of his post anyway. So like you saying it was obvious that Gus wagon was gonna be a thing and scum!Teacher saw this and get on early seems more narrative than actual gamestate reality. I really don’t have an issue with why Teacher voted Gus, it’s accurate to his play up to that point. Maybe I’m biased because I was SRing Gus, but can you show me that progression that had you leaning Town

before

Teacher’s vote?

Also what do you make of Teacher’s more recent post?

[Lefty]

You're asking for a lot, & I have very little time until about 18-20 hours from now. Quick points:
You severely overestimate your ability to conceal in which direction you want to push.
Gus was fairly open about his play & his interactions with BV were mildly town. Not a strong read, but it was there.
I don't like teacher's post: He pretends he had reasons for voting Gus he didn't have, while trying to normalise his original reasons. The rest feels just stating flimsy case-seeds very fast (both town & scum.) wave is less town because he didn't notice something? Invis is scum because he goes back on his reads? (That's not the current case on Invis, but if you don't get it, you might think it is.)
I can write more later if you want me to.

First point is probably fair. I didn’t really state anything about Gus to the public but I suppose anyone reading me would see that I was suspicious of him. Still doesn’t mean that when/if I pushed that it would gain traction.

You don’t have to like go back and multiquote a bunch of stuff I’m just looking for perspective on the dynamic because you had to be leaning Town on Gus to give a shit about Teacher’s vote there imo. Enough to say that he is trying to get ahead of the curve anyway. I can kinda see where you’re coming from though irt BV/Gus.

I’m trying to think outside my own bias, so I’ll mull over it a bit.

[Lefty]

I could go back to lynching Gus tbh. I’m having a hard time seeing this myopic perspective coming from Town unless he’s literally a robot.

[Lefty]

Like saying “This dude wants to push for a shorter deadline/hurry the Day and is actively wagoning people with that objective for little to no reason. I think that’s suspicious.” Is perfectly fucking reasonable.

[Lefty]

Like saying “This dude wants to push for a shorter deadline/hurry the Day and is actively wagoning people with that objective for little to no reason. I think that’s suspicious.” Is perfectly fucking reasonable.

Except that isn’t what he said but you’ve been twisting the truth all game so I guess keep it up.

That’s my take away from it. You were saying you wanted a shorter Day while you had voted up several wagons. Context matters.

But it’s easier to ignore that and just call this an outside of the game difference of opinion, amirite? Bigotry as you put it

[Lefty]

^ I agree with Nos on that irt the Performer wagon. BBT essentially made that untouchable and the fact no one has touched it since reinforces that I think both Peformer and BBT are Town.

[Lefty]

Also just not to ruffle feathers, I want to put out there that my language is just how I talk. Hopefully nobody reads my tone wrongly because I use curse words.

That said, Gus is still a crybaby and I will mercilessly tease him post game if I’m right on my reads and we are both Town. Vice versa applies too. I don’t hold grudges and if anyone feels I am being abrasive please refer back to this post. I say fuck and shit like any other adjective.

I’m not sure how MS handles this tell, but seeing as how Gus is nearly at his post count on D1 as his recently completely scum game, I sort of doubt he’s scum here. I’m of the type that don’t believe scum (minus a very select number of players IME) can maintain that sort of activity.

[Lefty]

@Nos - do you have scum reads? Like your philosophy is cool and zen af but you haven’t expressed any sort of suspicion that I remember thus far.

[Lefty]

I’m officially more open to the idea that Teacher could be scum.

GLGL

[Lefty]

Skim notably I don’t see why Invis saying Gus looks Town for two different reasons in two different instances is something to question. Like Invis just strikes me as a player who reads stuff and says whatever comes to mind at the time and nothing more.

[Lefty]

UNVOTE: Gosrir

VOTE: Teacher

[Lefty]

Fair point lol

[Lefty]

{Performer, BBT} -> TR
{Garmr} -> Lean Town

{TChill, Nos} -> Maybe Town
{Gus} -> Townie side of null

{BV, Invis, GEO, Wave, Teacher} -> Question marks
{Tommy} -> Legitimate concern

[Lefty]

Mostly inactivity but after reviewing his one game related post I don’t find it particularly strong.

[Lefty]

Inactivity isn't alignment indicative though? He even said that he wasn't available until around this time in his last post. Imo you can't have your strongest scum read based on 'They haven't posted much, and the first and only game related post they made wasn't that strong'. That's hardly a read. I mean it's fair to want to lynch him based around getting rid of lurkers, but don't imply he's scum based on a lack of posting, that's flat out wrong.

Cool.

[Lefty]

Oh I'm not denying being inactive isn't anti-town, it's just not good enough for a person's strongest scum read. I'd be down to lynch anyone inactive today tbh, just that being inactive isn't a reason to SR someone, it's a reason to lynch them based on anti-town behavior.

Cool.

[Lefty]

Yeah, bring that good stuff Tommy.

I can see the SR on BV tbh. After he got TR for his interaction with BBT he’s fallen off and I wasn’t particularly a fan of him just now lecturing me about inactivity tells.

[Lefty]

Well at least you can’t say I gave you plenty of time to get involved before I went from inactive to worrisomely inactive

The first time I read your post I had skimmed it pretty quickly while catching up, so without really processing any of it to any sort of real depth I thought it looked good. I went back later to reread. I don’t agree with your take on TChill that strongly. I don’t have him as firm Town but I would always resolve someone like Invis before him this game. I also didn’t think GEO’s post that you +1’d was really worth doing. The question posed to BBT was so out there and random it felt like a post just to post - he admitted as such later but the rational behind it doesn’t sit right to me.

[Lefty]

I don't like the fact he doesn't prefer to lynch ANY ppl d1 that will probably make it to lylo if they're town.

This really isn’t a good reason to lynch ppl though.

[Lefty]

townreading Tommy

Could you give a run down on the whole roster?

Or just like top 3-4 reads. Town or scum, with reasons though.

[Lefty]

Oh and BV would be a half decent info lynch with a possibility that it's a scum slot aswell

UNVOTE: Teacher
VOTE: ByronVilla

[Lefty]

Days 1 two and 3 should be used to lynch suspicious players. Players that will not help town. Players that could be scum but could also be used as tools by scum because of the limited information early game. If you can't lynch scum for sure day 3 after a few town flips and night kills. You're just bad or you've allowed scum to use too many players to their advantage.

This philosophy is just so backwards to me, dude. Like giving up easy MLs in the early parts of the game just adds more pressure to getting it right later on. I’d rather scum have to work D1-3 to get townies lynched than just pick players who don’t look strong and lynch them cause we don’t want them at end game. Like why are you evening thinking of end game D1? Just hunt scum, dude. How am I supposed to differiante between scum vs lazy town if we just lynch everyone who says dumb shit?

[Lefty]

Days 1 two and 3 should be used to lynch suspicious players. Players that will not help town. Players that could be scum but could also be used as tools by scum because of the limited information early game. If you can't lynch scum for sure day 3 after a few town flips and night kills. You're just bad or you've allowed scum to use too many players to their advantage.

This philosophy is just so backwards to me, dude. Like giving up easy MLs in the early parts of the game just adds more pressure to getting it right later on. I’d rather scum have to work D1-3 to get townies lynched than just pick players who don’t look strong and lynch them cause we don’t want them at end game. Like why are you evening thinking of end game D1? Just hunt scum, dude. How am I supposed to differiante between scum vs lazy town if we just lynch everyone who says dumb shit?

I mean it's just my style. This is more of a post game discussion.

Invis is probably scum.

Invis, Byron gosrir are great lynches

That’s fine. I’m willing to boil it down to playstyle/philosophy differences but ftr I don’t agree with it. Imo you’re proposal makes it really easy for scum to skate early game because they can wagon scummy looking Town and blend in on VCs. Makes it harder later on when it’s suddebly MyLo to figure out who is who.
FWIW I don’t have any of those slots as TRs but I doubt they’re all scum too. There might be one in that bunch.

[Lefty]

@Nos - I stay frosty. Beyond BV’s interaction early on with BBT (which in all honestly piggy backed largely on my own involvement with BBT) I don’t have good reason to TR him. The stuff he’s been picking at lately seems narrow in the grand scheme of things.

[Lefty]

@BBT who ever you wanna wagon I’m down.

[Lefty]

You should all come to BV with yours truly.

Happy Father’s Day! Won’t be around much today.

[Lefty]

B...V...
*clap clap*
B..V..
*clap clap*

[Lefty]

Okay, guys, I need an opinion. If what I'm saying is stupid, just tell me to shut up.

Invis is ascetic. His play was such that it (1) encouraged being investigated (2) discouraged being protected & (3) encouraged being killed (by town.)
(1) is harmful, (2) & (3) have little to no advantages. So that's a scumpoint, I think. Am I right?

Why can’t this just be Invis’s play without any of the above motives?

You’re applying narrative again.

[Lefty]

What’s the VC?

[Lefty]

I think gus attitude is pretty shit. He should stop being a Debbie downer.

Even if my attitude is shit, I’m not compromising on somebody I don’t scum read so what exactly do you want me to do?

Put a wagon on performer, lefty, or bbt and I’ll be happy as a school girl.

Eventually BoP takes its toll on everyone ^^^

[Lefty]

Burden of Proficiency. You can hide behind the D1 death tunnel and refuse to do anything constructive or informative (this could be a legit tactic) and eventually it’s gonna turn on you. You’re probably 0/3 in your reads for actual scum.

Good luck with your emergency. I hope all is well

[Lefty]

VOTE: Byron

Expected to die tbh. Haven’t reread or really given this game a ton of thought since the Invis lynch. I guess I have to now

[Lefty]

Did I say anything remotely close to that?

One slot was SR me yesterday with the rest leaning Town if not outright TR me. So in that regard I think I’d be a decent NK target since getting me lynched would be hard at this stage. Then again maybe it wasn’t me if my reads are off.

People on wagon I’m most suspicious of: Tommy, GEO
People off wagon I’m most suspicious of: Wavemode, Byron

That’s just a snapshot before I do any sort of rereading. I’m gonna have a busy weekend (this is my Friday work wise) but hopefully one of these nights I can sit down with my laptop and go thru everything again.

[Lefty]

Could someone tell me a bit more about Tommy? (Or a lot more, actually...)

What is your read on them?

[Lefty]

Speaking of death, there is someone who I expected as #1 most likely to die, but he didn't. So, now I'm paranoid. I'm never afraid of nks though, I rarely am targeted by anything at night.

I’d be careful with this line of thought btw. It’s too early and we don’t have enough info to start tinfoiling on someone you expected to die, especially after a Night with no death. The person you expected could’ve very well been targeted but were saved or some other NA prevented their death.

It boils down to a few different scenarios.

Mafia targeted a player who was protected by the Doc. This is the most positive outcome because it 1) keeps a Townie alive that scum obviously wanted to kill and 2) the Doc now has a confirmed townie in secret.

Mafia targeted a player with a BPV. This doesn’t outright clear the person, but it does guarantee they aren’t a member of the main scum faction.

Mafia was RB’d and their shot never went off. I find this probably the least like % wise because the RB would have to be perfectly on the scum player submitting the shot, but it’s not outright impossible.

There’s reason for scenarios 2&3 to claim if things don’t seem to be going well today. Option 1 should most certainly keep it to themselves for now.

[Lefty]

I have no idea about that either way. There was presumably no second death either, so there’s that too.

Another option I didn’t think about is if someone was jailed, but this is more murky because either the jailed person was the scum who submitted the shot, or the jailed person was protected from the shot. I wouldn’t claim in this scenario either, because if the latter is true than scum have an easy mechanical reason to lynch a Townie.

[Lefty]

I don’t think Garmr is scum. He’s been bringing it every time he posts.

I think BV is getting more credit than deserved for unvoting on a ML that was ~more than likely going through anyway. I wanna reread them in ISO but outside of the BBT interaction early inn D1 I don’t really think they look super Townie.

I really don’t have an issue with Nos. I’d like to hear the reasons for the Teacher wagon. GEO looks like scum to me. I’d be down to lynch them.

Still want to reread but I don’t know when that’ll happen.