Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hi guys, I’m looking forward to this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

want more from wheme nancy and creature honestly

thoughts on Arc hardsofting negative utility?

I’m sorry I’ve had a lot going on. I will try to do more tomorrow.

[Nancy Drew 39]

alright, real life first--catch you when you have the time.

<3

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just based on a very brief skimming, I think the worst, SS, Creature are town. So far not overly impressed with Princess, Angel, Wheme.


I’ll try to read it more in depth and do some ISOs when I get the chance.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just based on a very brief skimming, I think the worst, SS, Creature are town. So far not overly impressed with Princess, Angel, Wheme.


I’ll try to read it more in depth and do some ISOs when I get the chance.

I’m also liking Jorai and Vartsun (even if he forgot I was in the game XD).

Still not liking Prncess and Angel.

Does Princess post anything other than illegible fuff?

Angel.just seems super aggressive in a weird way.

Sorry, I will try to be more active

NicoRobin, What?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think Creature is town because I have played with him as both alignments and his is one of the easier ones to sort.

Sum!Creature, tends to complain alot, is very self-centered and morose.

Town!Creature OTOH, is carefree, not at all self-focused, more likely to be upbeat, maybe a bit snarky.

He is more likely to make some kind of commentry on the gamestate, especially later on.

So, I think we’re probably seeing town!Creature here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Look at my correct % in recent games. I'm done trying to convince you people. My record speaks for itself.

I don't think scum would boast about how great their reads usually are.

Why wouldn’t they? I have yet to ISO TPKFAP but I view this post as NAI. I can see reasons for both alignments to do this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The problem with whats going on right now is that there is no decent coalition to stand behind these accusations and reads. It's too bad that MOST of you can't see what's going on here.

I'm fine with it though. let it simmer. we'll see.

What is it you think is going on here?

[Nancy Drew 39]

And yes, I see you and Taly both claiming creature is matching his normal scum meta. Since I don't have the requisite games with him I'm having to trust you both on that point, combined with my general unease about him. Now I just have to hope my townish read of both of you is correct, and that you're not walking me right off of a cliff. Not gonna count Wheme, because sometimes I think he's driving the bus blindfolded.

I am willing to park the Wheme vote for now, and we can pick it back up D2 if the lack of evidence continues.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Creature

JESUS CHEIST IS THIS DUDE TOWN OR SCUM

It’s a playstyle. I mistakenly scumread Ank for a good part of the last game I played with him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Do you have any other slots sorted atm Nancy?

I’m really liking the worst, Vartsun. I’m townleaning TPKAF, you. TBG

Wheme is kind of freaking me out a bit. I don’t understand why Shoshin is scumreading you. I didn’t see anything wrong with your post.

I dislike how aggressively Wheme is pushing lynches.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What's your take on nd39 Taly?

Mmmm... Town lean post-ISO skim.

They are consistently voicing their stances, opinions, and thoughts. 241, 308

They've engaged 1 on 1 with several people right now, some with questions.

I don't agree with them townreading my strongest scumreads,

{Tgkfap, Creature}

; but I don't find scum motivation behind that?

471 is towny to me because she's voicing a new opinion with her own reasoning, it strikes me as genuine.

However, they haven't voted yet, and I don't know where their heads at for scum.

What do you think of them?

ND39

, could you explain your

tgkfap

read? You haven't used your vote at all in the game, do you have any read worthy of pushing?

~ Taly

He just seemed townie to me. His posts seemed natural and villagery. Wheme maybe? He seems way too eager to push mislynches. I am still far from fully caught up still. I don’t even know what the curent votes are. @RadiantCowbells , could you please post that? Thanks.

I want to do some more ISOs and I’m still only halfway through the thread.

I want to basically distinguish between votes on players that I think may be scummy and bad pushes for silly NAI reasons. You seem to be one of the people in this game with well thought-out pushes but I want to form my own opinions. I generally prefer to just go with my gut than sheep. I have a few players that are pinging more than others but I want to figure out if its just playstyle differences or a possible scumlead.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ss and Jorai are probably town.

I’m maybe thinking Princess or Shosin?

Princess, self-explanatory. I didn’t like Shosin’s reasons for her vote.

VOTE: Rennais

[Nancy Drew 39]

I didn’t like Shosin’s reasons for her vote.

For the vote on Sajj or Reality?

Reality. However, I’m not clear whether that’s just wrong or scummy. I read the reasons you highlighted as NAI.

[Nancy Drew 39]

umm i don't get how exactly knowing why worst is tring me connects to sorting both of us.

why do you think we share alignment?

I didn't say you share alignment. Understanding how the worst thinks about the game helps me sort him, and understanding why he town reads you helps me see if I'm missing something about you.

I wonder what would have happened if I had refused to answer why I townread TPFKAP... bet the worst would have voted me for it...

assuming he would do that, what would it mean to you?

I wouldn't have done that because I think it's a legitimate question. It's fine to ignore boring questions that don't actually help sort alignments, but that wasn't my question.

If I'd refused to answer and the worst voted me, I'd say it was a valid vote. I certainly wouldn't get upset about it. I'd understand exactly where it came from.

Why are you so concerned with how the worst thinks and reads thing, over any other player in this game?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I didn’t like Shosin’s reasons for her vote.

For the vote on Sajj or Reality?

Labyrinth Mafia - Votecount 1.22:

Creature (3): WhemeStar, Vartsun, Joral
The Worst (2): Shoshin, Reality Check
Princess of Renais (1): TehBrawlGuy
Shoshin (1): TPFKAP
WhemeStar (1): ArcAngel9
Reality Check (1): The Worst
ArcAngel9 (1): Randomidget
TPFKAP (0):
Joral (0):
Nancy Drew 39 (0):
Scioness Sajj (0):
Vartsun (0):
TehBrawlGuy (0):
NicoRobin (0):
Randomidget (0):


Not voting: Nancy Drew 39, NicoRobin, Creature, Scioness Sajj, Princess of Renais

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.

The day will end at 7 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes.

Um, your vote isn’t on Saj, it’s on the worst?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I didn’t like Shosin’s reasons for her vote.

For the vote on Sajj or Reality?

Reality. However, I’m not clear whether that’s just wrong or scummy. I read the reasons you highlighted as NAI.

What's the problem with my reasons? Reality's read felt unnatural and fake (alignment indicative because townies don't fake reads), and the language used ("really" and "tbh") is the sort of language that scum tends to use when expressing fake reads (yes, town use these sorts of qualifiers too, but scum tend to use them more, especially when expressing reads that don't have any basis in the actual game - and that isn't just theory, it's something I've observed quite often when comparing the same player's town/scum game). Do you disagree with me that the read was unnatural (did you town read Joral at that point?)? And what's wrong with my point about language?

I don’t disagree that language can’t be AI but I really didn’t see the language Reality employed in that post as AI and I was townleaning Jorei at that point and I still am. I think my assessment of your vote is perfectly valid and you seem a bit too defensive over a completely reasonable assessment. I made it clear that that I wasn’t clear if it was just wrong or scummy. I was leaning in the direction of wrong but your overreaction to my comment is concerning. People make incorrect reads all the time for NAI reasons. I just didn’t see it at all as AI. If I had read your reasoning as scummy, my vote would have been on you not Renais.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, why are you reading Sajj as town?

I didn’t think he had the best opening post but I thought his ISO as a whole was okay. I want to clarify that I’m town

leaning

him as opposed to town

reading

him. @Vartsun. This is true for pretty much everyone on my list. The only players I am actually town

reading

rn are the worst and Vartsun, everyone else on my list is a town

lean

atm. However, my townlean on Jorei is pretty strong as compared to the rest of my list.

While I can understand how SS would think you’re “jumping the gun” on his 317 post, I completely disagree with him on his Renais read. I think that Renais is either scum or vanity posting. I don’t see how that remotely makes her remotely invested in the game.

However, I think him placing a vote on you based on that seems to be an overreaction on his part. I do like that you are on sync with me on Renais however. That’s how I’m reading it, anyway.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think my assessment of your vote is perfectly valid and you seem a bit too defensive over a completely reasonable assessment. I made it clear that that I wasn’t clear if it was just wrong or scummy. I was leaning in the direction of wrong but your overreaction to my comment is concerning. People make incorrect reads all the time for NAI reasons. I just didn’t see it at all as AI. If I had read your reasoning as scummy, my vote would have been on you not Renais.

You thought my response was a defensive overreaction?

If anything, 550 feels defensive.

Are you serious? In what way? I am trying to read you accurately but then you keep making questionable posts like this one. Is SS seeing something I’m not? This post is really pinging me, it almost reads like an OMGUS.Why? Because your post was definitely defensive and I rightly pointed that out. Why you or anyone could possibly view that as in anyway “defensive”, just baffles me

tbh

. Are you an overly paranoid townie or a defensive wolf?

[Nancy Drew 39]

What do you think about the reasons I voted Sajj?

Well I thought it was based on his defending Renais and townreading her but now you say, it had nothing to do with Rennais. So now, I really don’t get it. If your reasons for voting him have nothing whatsoever do with Renais, then what else could you find possibly suspicious about it?

[Nancy Drew 39]

yeah, i thought you have just jumped the gun on 317
VOTE: shoshin

But do you really think he’s a wolf over just an overly paranoid townie?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Are you serious? In what way? I am trying to read you accurately but then you keep making questionable posts like this one. Is SS seeing something I’m not? This post is really pinging me, it almost reads like an OMGUS.Why? Because your post was definitely defensive and I rightly pointed that out. Why you or anyone could possibly view that as in anyway “defensive”, just baffles me tbh. Are you an overly paranoid townie or a defensive wolf?

Alright, I think I see what's happening here. My intent wasn't defensive, it was to better understand your thought process, so it felt weird to see you call it a "defensive overreaction" when I didn't feel that way at all - from my perspective it barely felt like I was "reacting" to you, more that I was "hunting." But I reread my post and I see where you get the defensiveness - it's because I went into some detail providing some context for the questions I was asking. I also reread your post and it looks like you might have done something similar - you weren't thinking of yourself as defending yourself but you spent a lot of time overexplaining things in a way that I interpreted as defensive in the context of my attempts to sort you. Our intent was probably equally non-defensive.

Alright. Lol. Did you catch my inclusion of the tbh and bolding it? I deliberately put that in to see if you’d scumread me for it. I’m feeling a lot better about you now.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t disagree that language can’t be AI but I really didn’t see the language Reality employed in that post as AI and I was townleaning Jorei at that point and I still am.

I think my assessment of your vote is perfectly valid

and you seem a bit too defensive over a completely reasonable assessment.

I made it clear that that I wasn’t clear if it was just wrong or scummy.

I was leaning in the direction of wrong but your overreaction to my comment is concerning.

People make incorrect reads all the time for NAI reasons. I just didn’t see it at all as AI. If I had read your reasoning as scummy, my vote would have been on you not Renais.

I bolded the parts that I interpreted as defensive.

I could see why you might think that but the actual content shows otherwise. I base my reads on things that don’t add up, tone, how invested someone is in solving etc.

What is your read on Rennais, Wheme and Creature? I’m beginning to doubt my initial read on Creature based on his sounding somewhat antagonistic and his readslist is also making me wonder. However, I still can see few and far between attempts at possible “solviness”?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm going to be so disappointed if you're scum, Nancy.

I could say the same. Lol. You’re either pocketing me now or you’re probably town. Rn, I’m leaning towards the latter.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Are you serious? In what way? I am trying to read you accurately but then you keep making questionable posts like this one. Is SS seeing something I’m not? This post is really pinging me, it almost reads like an OMGUS.Why? Because your post was definitely defensive and I rightly pointed that out. Why you or anyone could possibly view that as in anyway “defensive”, just baffles me tbh. Are you an overly paranoid townie or a defensive wolf?

Alright, I think I see what's happening here. My intent wasn't defensive, it was to better understand your thought process, so it felt weird to see you call it a "defensive overreaction" when I didn't feel that way at all - from my perspective it barely felt like I was "reacting" to you, more that I was "hunting." But I reread my post and I see where you get the defensiveness - it's because I went into some detail providing some context for the questions I was asking. I also reread your post and it looks like you might have done something similar - you weren't thinking of yourself as defending yourself but you spent a lot of time overexplaining things in a way that I interpreted as defensive in the context of my attempts to sort you. Our intent was probably equally non-defensive.

Alright. Lol. Did you catch my inclusion of the tbh and bolding it? I deliberately put that in to see if you’d scumread me for it. I’m feeling a lot better about you now.

lol yeah you thought I'd scumread you for that? I'm not that bad at mafia, I'm just trying to sort you and I appreciate that you're actually answering my questions because I feel like we're finally getting somewhere in this game.

Rn, I have you, the worst, Vartsun and Jorei as my top town. I think however one reads Creature, his putting the worst as his only townread spews him as likely townie. If Creature is town, than the worst really is his strongest townread but if he is scum, than that also favours the worst as probably town. In a game I played with scum!Creature on MU, he asked why there was a wagon on a particular player (and only that player) and that player wound up flipping town. So, based on Creature’s readslist, there is no world where they can be w/w together. So, I completely agree with Vartsun’s reasons for townreading the worst.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What is your read on Rennais, Wheme and Creature? I’m beginning to doubt my initial read on Creature based on his sounding somewhat antagonistic and his readslist is also making me wonder. However, I still can see few and far between attempts at possible “solviness”?

Renais feels troll, not sure about her alignment. If she keeps up as she is, she's going to get lynched. It's frustrating to play with but I'm holding out hope that if she's town, she'll eventually start doing things to make that clear.

Wheme's 155 felt scummy. I think at that point he should have recognized that Joral wasn't scummy enough to keep blindly pushing but he kept tunneling anyway. I thought about voting Wheme at this point but I also wanted to keep pressure on Reality because of her early town read on Wheme, among other things.

Creature's scummy. He hasn't done anything. Posts feel awkward. Doesn't seem to be hunting for scum. And from what I've been told, that's not how Creature plays as town.

Yeah, I really hated his bizarre overreaction to Jorei’s post. It was wayy too over the top. It read fake to me. I’m thinking of possibly switching my vote to Wheme but I wanted to gauge my eyes out with a hot poker after ISOing Rennais.

If there were to be a close tie between the worst and Creature (or any of my top town), I would definitely jump on that wagon. I’m hesitating because I can still see a bit of digging on his part but it could also mean his scum game has improved somewhat. Creature either plays as town by bring super solvey or not really caring about the gamestate. In the last game I played with him, he did practically nothing and I voted him based on that but later in that same game, he wound up pushing for a correct lynch, so I’m not at all clear on his alignment rn. Usually when Creature has randed scum in a game, it’s over the top obvious to nearly every other player. The fact that I even have the slightest doubt, is primarily what is making me hesitate.

[Nancy Drew 39]

He has been very solvey, asking lots of questions, interacting and pushing on other players. His posts seem natural and unrehearsed. This is not AI but #119 (which I don’t know how I missed it the first time) is hilarious.

[Nancy Drew 39]

He has been very solvey, asking lots of questions, interacting and pushing on other players. His posts seem natural and unrehearsed. This is not AI but #119 (which I don’t know how I missed it the first time) is hilarious.

@Shosin Re: the worst’s ISO

[Nancy Drew 39]

After Creature flips were doing randommidget because he’s also scum

Based on?

[Nancy Drew 39]

yeah, i thought you have just jumped the gun on 317
VOTE: shoshin

But do you really think he’s a wolf over just an overly paranoid townie?

i don't think a paranoid townie would explain their vote with reasoning that everything been obvious the whole game but back off as soon as i asked them for better examples. i have been not feeling shoshin since my first vote on her i will explain that better when i have more time.

Yeah, I can totally understand where you’re coming from. I was initially extremely suspicious of her but I’m feeling really good about her now. If you want further clarification on this, review my most recent interactions with her with her, to understand why.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Find it strange when Princess of Renais' avatar is more interesting than her posts

shading? or distancing?

How does this qualify as either?

[Nancy Drew 39]

btw my neighborhood is almost silent

Your what? Silent about what exactly?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Help me strike people out of this list, I'll start:

The Worst

Nancy Drew 39
Scioness Sajj
Vartsun (Varsoon/Taly)
TehBrawlGuy
Reality Check (Ank/Mastina)
Shoshin
NicoRobin
Riku
TPFKAP
Princess of Renais

Creature

WhemeStar
ArcAngel9
Joral

any game thoughts yet Creature?

You town
Reality town
Princess meh

Why isn’t Reality crossed out on your readslist?

[Nancy Drew 39]

After Creature flips were doing randommidget because he’s also scum

Based on?

Meta

I’ve nevet played them before. Can you elaborate on this more?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Someone help me get into this game please

Pretend scum!Creature isn't there

ND39 Joral and Reality?

I don’t really know about ND39 honestly haven’t really been able to get into their posts

Joral is like too scummy to be scum but then again I’ve played games where it still flipped scum

I townread realty for now

Eh I think I could vote Nancyb

What changed in 3 minutes? Lol

Why is Joei scummy to you?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Okay, I just ISOd my last town game with Creature on MU. I had subbed in late to that game and had never fully read the entire thread. But comparing his ISO in that game with this one, there really is no contest. Keep in mind that this game has a 2 week d1 and the game on MU had only 48 hrs and he did a helluva a lot more solving in those 2 days, than he has done here in an entire week.

UNVOTE: Rennais

VOTE: Creature

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Joral

Idc anymore not unvoting this

Why? What is your obsession with Joral? You have been on him since the game started.

He is trying to figure out what happened and asking questions about that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Lot of useless players this game tbh

What is your current readslist? Any changes, why or why not?

What is your take on the worst, Reality and Saj being taken to the underground? What do you think about Wheme’s obsession with Joral?

What do you think of your wagon and do you even care about it?

Why aren’t you making more of an effort to solving this game?

[Nancy Drew 39]

"Yay! Because in a game filling with apathy, let's just throw HALF THE PLAYERLIST as a lynch, and then cast transparent suspicion on my wagon! WHEEEEEEE!!!

The ones I haven't included are sort of townreads and didn't say I was fine lynching any from my wagon.

And . . . those townreads are . . . ? Care to share with the rest of the class? Also, any scumreads, would also be really swell. kthanx.

[Nancy Drew 39]

We've been thrown in the fire, we've been lost in the flame, but we will rise from the ashes again

Thank you Dr. Phil.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Labyrinth Mafia - Votecount 1.22:

Creature (3): WhemeStar, Vartsun, Joral
The Worst (2): Shoshin, Reality Check
Princess of Renais (1): TehBrawlGuy
Shoshin (1): TPFKAP
WhemeStar (1): ArcAngel9
Reality Check (1): The Worst
ArcAngel9 (1): Randomidget
TPFKAP (0):
Joral (0):
Nancy Drew 39 (0):
Scioness Sajj (0):
Vartsun (0):
TehBrawlGuy (0):
NicoRobin (0):
Randomidget (0):


Not voting: Nancy Drew 39, NicoRobin, Creature, Scioness Sajj, Princess of Renais

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.

The day will end at 7 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes.

The Goblin King has begun to sing!

Reality Check, The Worst, Scioness Sajj have been sent to the Underground.

Labyrinth Mafia - Votecount 1.27:

Creature (5): WhemeStar, Vartsun, Joral, TPFKAP, Nancy Drew 39
Princess of Renais (1): TehBrawlGuy
NicoRobin (1): ArcAngel9
ArcAngel9 (1): Randomidget
Shoshin (0):
WhemeStar (0):
TPFKAP (0):
Joral (0):
Nancy Drew 39 (0):
Vartsun (0):
TehBrawlGuy (0):
Randomidget (0):


Not voting: NicoRobin, Creature, Princess of Renais, Shoshin

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The day will end at (expired on 2018-06-07 15:00:00).

Upon looking at the wagons, I'm thinking this ability is probably done by town within

{the worst, Reality Check, Sajj}

If

Creature

were scum, then it'd make more sense to remove players ON his wagon, and to cause WIFOM.

A lot of

the worst's

,

reality's

, and

Sajj's

interactions in this game were amongst each other - as they were very active.

So now I'm little worried about the

Creature

wagon, nobody's outright defended it besides maybe

Nancy

before her vote, but I don't think people are engaging with that.

Wheme

was the ONLY sensible vote on that wagon, but he's going for

Joral

... who I should ISO to strengthen my read there - because I think he's town, but I don't where his heads at in the game if he's not voting independently. Dislike the

tgkfap

vote much like the rest of their posts.

Okay, I just ISOd my last town game with Creature on MU. I had subbed in late to that game and had never fully read the entire thread. But comparing his ISO in that game with this one, there really is no contest. Keep in mind that this game has a 2 week d1 and the game on MU had only 48 hrs and he did a helluva a lot more solving in those 2 days, than he has done here in an entire week.

UNVOTE: Rennais

VOTE: Creature

So are you thinking he's scum off meta as well, now? Or in-game thoughts? What changed?

~ Taly

The game I played with Creature was an anonymous game, so when I was actually playing the game, I had no idea I was playing with Creature. If I had, I’d have never mistakenly voted for him. I remembered that Creature hadn’t really done anything useful until d4 and his play here - unlike his typical games I’ve played with him, weren’t exactly identical to the games I’ve played with him as scum, so I decided to ISO his posts in that game to determine if my initial recollection that he didn’t do anyhing useful until d4 was really accurate. I found it wasn’t - especially when compared and contrasted with this one. The most significant difference was that in that MU game I ISOd, Creature was making a sincere and earnest effort to sort reads - something he has shown extreme reluctance to do here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Wheme's latest vote on me is post 666. Confirmed proof wheme is evil.

LOL I noticed that too. Maybe Wheme is Jareth?

[Nancy Drew 39]

If Creature is town, he will give reads on more than one ir two players and he will actually give some reasons. So far he has been unwilling to do this.

So Creature, for like the umpeenth time, give us your reads and some explanation for them. tia.

Creature’s response to this question, should tell you all you need to know, imo.

@Creature

[Nancy Drew 39]

The Worst

Nancy Drew 39

Scioness

Sajj

Vartsun (Varsoon/Taly)

TehBrawlGuy

Reality Check (Ank/Mastina)

Shoshin

NicoRobin
Riku

TPFKAP

Princess of Renais

Creature

WhemeStar

ArcAngel9

Joral

Can you explain your reasoning for these reads?

[Nancy Drew 39]

o also sum food 4 thoughts

town wants 2 decrease scumpool

scum wants 2 do opposite

No offense but thank you Captain Obvious. Lol. Is this the first time you’ve ever played Mafia?

if i wanted 2 explain i would hav alrdy don so

Explaining your reads is how the other players can figure out how to read you.

mebbe ill explain when the time is rite

Currently there’s a wagon on you and if you don’t want to be lynched, I think that time is long overdue.

[Nancy Drew 39]

evry strik names r very very VERY obvtown

mebe excpt critter

sajj is half strik cos if im wrong on one its her

I believe that is the standard, so I suspect that's not what Nancy was asking. Would you care to enlighten us as to

WHY

you think that way?

It’s frustrating. Nico has given no reads whatsoever, Creature has given one that is highly sus - mentioning both the worst and Reality but only crossing out the worst and Rennais has given a readslist but not explained it, however in Creature’s case, this is clearly deliberate. That might be true for Rennais as well. Nico - have no clue.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Labyrinth Mafia - Votecount 1.27:

Creature (5): WhemeStar, Vartsun, Joral, TPFKAP, Nancy Drew 39
Princess of Renais (1): TehBrawlGuy
NicoRobin (1): ArcAngel9
ArcAngel9 (1): Randomidget
Shoshin (0):
WhemeStar (0):
TPFKAP (0):
Joral (0):
Nancy Drew 39 (0):
Vartsun (0):
TehBrawlGuy (0):
Randomidget (0):


Not voting: NicoRobin, Creature, Princess of Renais, Shoshin

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The day will end at (expired on 2018-06-07 15:00:00).

I think June 6, 7:00 pm EST. @WhemeStar

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: the worst

Why did you vote for the worst here?

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Reality Check

I love that kitty!!!!

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Very fascinating.

I think you omitted the most interesting part of her post.


VOTE: Reality Check

I wish the goblins would come and take you away right now.

Hmmmm . . .

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: the worst

Why did you vote for the worst here?

ITS POST 77777777777777777

VOTE: THIS DUDE IM QUOTIG RC

I agree with you. It seems like an attempt to derail. Why was I tl this guy again?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Acutally, agreed. I have doubts on creature, but they can be solved later on.

VOTE: renais

VOTE: Creature

one of these two votes is probably scum depending on the renais flip imo.

Can you explain?

Creature is either town or scum. If scum, scum will try to dtart a counterwagon onto renais. If he is town and renais is scum, then scum will try to push the creature wagon through before they have to defend renais

VOTE: the worst

Why did you vote for the worst here?

I don’t agree with your conclusion @randomidget. I don’t see either vote as necessarily AI. However, I definitely think TPFKAP’s post questioning Shosin’s post #7 rvs vote to be a highly suspicious. The worst had accused her (TPFKAP) of posting “noise” and she makes all these posts to indicate how seriously she is taking this game but has yet to do anything actually useful to help solving it. This recent post of hers reads like WIFOM. TPFKAP, was the one who posted that rather odd - in retrospect - goblin comment to the worst - yet she is allegedly concerned with a post #7 rvs VOTE? Fortunately, no one took the bait.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I kinda feel mentally drained from having to wade through so many shit posts that I can't help but feel like there's some sort of scum conspiracy to clutter this game with so much irrelevant nonsense that it's impossible to sort the town from scum.

I think that’s entirely possible.

[Nancy Drew 39]

you know the dude you're quoting has a name.

VC here probably in the morning sorry

I really think we need one. We have less than 12 hours left now, correct?

[Nancy Drew 39]

okanyone up for a PL on nic
they arent even lurking
this is straight up prodging

I agree but since we currently have at least two players with relatively high scum equity: Creature and TPFKAP. I’d prefer to lynch one of them.

My preference:

TPFKAP - smarter lynch
Creature - safer lynch

As far as Nico is concerned, I hope we have a vig but after almost two weeks, this is clearly unacceptable.
Rennais - Based on tone, is slightly more likely to be town than scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

They're voting with me because what I laid out in 698 makes sense.

Arc, what do you think of 698 yourself? Do you not agree with my conclusion?

No. I disagree with you. You are recommending for policy lynch. I rather prefer to pick my scum read than a petty PL. If Renais is dicey, there is time to figure that out.

Yes. Right now I am agreeing with TBG's logic, and following that. Not as one of wheme's blind sheep though.

If T:Creature, there is a chance with play he can convince me of this.
If S:Creature, there is a chance he can slip and dig further in.

If T:Renais, we will have (questionable) quality dice roll passwords
If S:Renais, we will have (questionable) quality dice roll passwords

So, if I assume for a second my read on Creature is wrong, then I lose more game-wise lynching creature than I do lynching renais. If I assume my read on creature is correct, then he is always there for D2, and we can argue this out some more.

Dont judge but i am going to ask you here what you're trying to convey about Renais. Sorry English is not my first language and at times i loose on my reads when things get too complicated. Are you implying that Renais is some kind of 3rd party? what do you mean by dice roll passwords. I lost you here completely. can you simply what you think of Renais here? I understand that she got some weird kind of play going on here. So do I. How is it AI?

VOTE: Creature

You gotta explain this Wheme.

If Creature is town, he will give reads on more than one ir two players and he will actually give some reasons. So far he has been unwilling to do this.

So Creature, for like the umpeenth time, give us your reads and some explanation for them. tia.

Creature’s response to this question, should tell you all you need to know, imo.

@Creature

You made an interesting point. My mind says that you could be right and want to agree with you but creature is too cute to lynch on day 1 but yeah you could be right here. He is not being like town creature and his activity in this game concerning me a bit.

evry strik names r very very VERY obvtown

mebe excpt critter

sajj is half strik cos if im wrong on one its her

I believe that is the standard, so I suspect that's not what Nancy was asking. Would you care to enlighten us as to

WHY

you think that way?

It’s frustrating. Nico has given no reads whatsoever, Creature has given one that is highly sus - mentioning both the worst and Reality but only crossing out the worst and Rennais has given a readslist but not explained it, however in Creature’s case, this is clearly deliberate. That might be true for Rennais as well. Nico - have no clue.

I am calling it. Nancy is town!

Hi.

Can we lynch this!! This is the lynch material.

I am not opposed to this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So how can I help?

Tell us your reads and explain them. If you do this, I will take my vote off of you and argue against your wagon. If you refuse, I view it as a probable scum claim.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i literally cannot iso tpfkap
i get to them saying fartsoon and impersonating trump and my brain just shuts off
i would not be against a pl for the level of horiffic posting there tbh

Not a PL but high chance of scum equity. I will show you why.

[Nancy Drew 39]

[instagram][/instagram]

I wish the goblins would come and take you away right now.

This was a very early post directed to the worst. Coincidence or not?

Just ask anyone from the alisae hydra game FOR EXAMPLE

Fartsoon, we can 1v1, after Sho is deadbecause there is a reason you are CHAINSAW defending. I can READ YOUR VOICE by the way, and the FACT that you are FAKING which head is posting...wow.

Early supper-agressive push on Shosin and irrelevant shade on Vartsun.

The problem with whats going on right now is that there is no decent coalition to stand behind these accusations and reads. It's too bad that MOST of you can't see what's going on here.

I'm fine with it though. let it simmer. we'll see.

She never bothers to either elaborate or explain this.

yeah you're adding nothing but noise to this conversation pls stop with that

it's transparently a shitpost

WOW I haven't been shouted down like this in a while.

VOTE: the worst

Slaps vote on the worst for correctly calling her out for intentionally clogging up and derailing thread.

u have no POWER OVER ME

The worst gets it.

I will be there for you

bruuuuuuh

im so stoned rn

watch labyrinth
???
profit

your brother is the love of my life btw

Do you do hydra sign offs btw?

thank you <3
nice to play with you again
both of you actually

VOTE: the worst
hello? do i know you?

LOL sorry
great to see you too sajj <3

I was laughing at myself, my own stupidity >;

yeah ok the future father of my ducklings has his issues..... >:

VOTE: Joral probs

Who's there

Trusting you to be town here Creature
I need my hydra buddy back

this doesn't sound like town creature yet.
ok lemme do some critcialt thniknig!!!

yeah you're adding nothing but noise to this conversation pls stop with that

it's transparently a shitpost

but fine, I think you are town. scum usually don't have the guts to throw their weight around that much.

VOTE: the worst

Highly suspicious shade on the worst - the kind that wolves are wont to do, when a villa gets in their way.

TPFKAP post (sorry for messing up the formatting)

Why did you vote for the worst here?

The only type of player to make this kind of post, is either a completely noob (less than 5 games) or scum. TPFKAP is not a noob and no player who is town, takes an RVS vote - as opposed to an RVS post - seriously.

This post reeks of confirmation bias.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Labyrinth Mafia - Votecount 1.31:

Creature (4): Vartsun, TPFKAP, Nancy Drew 39, Shoshin
Princess of Renais (3): TehBrawlGuy, Randomidget, Joral
NicoRobin (2): ArcAngel9, Creature
TPFKAP (1): WhemeStar
ArcAngel9 (0):
Shoshin (0):
WhemeStar (0):
Joral (0):
Nancy Drew 39 (0):
Vartsun (0):
TehBrawlGuy (0):
Randomidget (0):


Not voting: NicoRobin, Princess of Renais

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The day will end at (expired on 2018-06-07 15:00:00).

@RadiantCowbells, when exactly does the day end? Can you specify a specific/approximate time? Thanks

[Nancy Drew 39]

In continuation to my previous post.

ARCANGEL9 READS ARE GUIDANCE FOR THE TOWN WIN. FAIL TO FOLLOW HERE, YOU WILL FACE THE WRATH OF THE REAPER!!

Agree. anyone failing to do this, is either anti-town or scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: the worst

Why did you vote for the worst here?

In addition to my (I believe rather compelling) case on her, I don’t see how this is a genuine villa post.

Derailing, confirmation bias and WIFOM.

Anyone interested in a CFD on TPFKAF?

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: NicoRobin

UNVOTE: Creature

Scummy prodger.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I wanted to vote for TPkAF but but I didn’t want to let it rand. I ISOd Nico and compared it with her other games, where she least had one original thought. To reference Vartsun, Nico is the epitome of “lurk-ass scum” in this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: NicoRobin

UNVOTE: Creature

Scummy prodger.

Nevermind.

UNVOTE: NicRobin

VOTE: Creature

I didn’t count Creature vote.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: NicoRobin

UNVOTE: Creature

Scummy prodger.

Nevermind.

UNVOTE: NicRobin

VOTE: Creature

I didn’t count Creature vote.

I think TKAFP, Creature and Nico are scum. I think Rennais is the most likely to be town of all of them and unfortunately, switching my vote to either TKAFP or Nico, makes possible a possible Rennais mislynch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I wanted to vote for TPkAF but but I didn’t want to let it rand. I ISOd Nico and compared it with her other games, where she least had one original thought. To reference Vartsun, Nico is the epitome of “lurk-ass scum” in this game.

Did I have an 'original thought' on D1 of those games?

Note: Steven Universe 2 mafia and Mini 1936 don't count, cos I was confirmed town-aligned in both of those.

Prove to me that those 'original throughts' were made on D1 of at least three games. If you can't, then your read is a bunch of bs.

No you, prove it rn. Who do you think is scum in this game?

Anyway, I couldn’t vote for who I wanted thanks to the damn Rennais wagon, so you’re safe. TPKAF is my most confident scum read but you and Creature have equal scum equity except you’re doing even less than he is.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I just told I don't have original though on freaking D1 and you are demanding one from me anyway. If you wanna read me, then at least try learning how I play as town and as scum before jumping to baseless conclusions.

Answer the damn question instead of being so defensive.

You’ve had two freaking weeks! I don’t believe you have no reads by now.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I just told I don't have original though on freaking D1 and you are demanding one from me anyway. If you wanna read me, then at least try learning how I play as town and as scum before jumping to baseless conclusions.

Answer the damn question instead of being so defensive.

You’ve had two freaking weeks! I don’t believe you have no reads by now.

Randomidget subbed in after you and they’ve been doing a helluva a lot more than you and Creature put together.

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE: Creature

VOTE: TPFKAP

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Creature

Please sheep me. I don’t think scum!Creature bothers to vote.

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE: Creature

VOTE: TPFKAP

I sincerely hope this vote doesn’t rand and Rennais gets lynched but I’m beyond convinced TPFKAP is scum. Wheme, why did you change your vote?

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: tpfkap
nico, therre is a differnet between not having reads and posting nothing. not even pointless content or shitposting. not even non game relevant stuff. literally null posting. that isnt an acceptable playstyle and you are going to get lynched for it. i tend not to have many reads on day 1. but i still interact with people, ask questions and try to figure out where people are at.

100% agree.

VOTE: TPKAF

VOTE: TPKAF

VOTE: TPKAF

VOTE: TPKAF

VOTE: TPKAF

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: the worst

Why did you vote for the worst here?

What possible town motivation is behind this post?

[Nancy Drew 39]

[instagram][/instagram]

I wish the goblins would come and take you away right now.

This was a very early post directed to the worst. Coincidence or not?

Just ask anyone from the alisae hydra game FOR EXAMPLE

Fartsoon, we can 1v1, after Sho is deadbecause there is a reason you are CHAINSAW defending. I can READ YOUR VOICE by the way, and the FACT that you are FAKING which head is posting...wow.

Early supper-agressive push on Shosin and irrelevant shade on Vartsun.

It wasn’t solely based on that. Vartsun - one of my top town - also had a case on her.

The problem with whats going on right now is that there is no decent coalition to stand behind these accusations and reads. It's too bad that MOST of you can't see what's going on here.

I'm fine with it though. let it simmer. we'll see.

She never bothers to either elaborate or explain this.

yeah you're adding nothing but noise to this conversation pls stop with that

it's transparently a shitpost

WOW I haven't been shouted down like this in a while.

VOTE: the worst

Slaps vote on the worst for correctly calling her out for intentionally clogging up and derailing thread.

u have no POWER OVER ME

The worst gets it.

I will be there for you

bruuuuuuh

im so stoned rn

watch labyrinth
???
profit

your brother is the love of my life btw

Do you do hydra sign offs btw?

thank you <3
nice to play with you again
both of you actually

VOTE: the worst
hello? do i know you?

LOL sorry
great to see you too sajj <3

I was laughing at myself, my own stupidity >;

yeah ok the future father of my ducklings has his issues..... >:

VOTE: Joral probs

Who's there

Trusting you to be town here Creature
I need my hydra buddy back

this doesn't sound like town creature yet.
ok lemme do some critcialt thniknig!!!

yeah you're adding nothing but noise to this conversation pls stop with that

it's transparently a shitpost

but fine, I think you are town. scum usually don't have the guts to throw their weight around that much.

VOTE: the worst

Highly suspicious shade on the worst - the kind that wolves are wont to do, when a villa gets in their way.

TPFKAP post (sorry for messing up the formatting)

Why did you vote for the worst here?

The only type of player to make this kind of post, is either a completely noob (less than 5 games) or scum. TPFKAP is not a noob and no player who is town, takes an RVS vote - as opposed to an RVS post - seriously.

This post reeks of confirmation bias.

[Nancy Drew 39]

random

just don't

I have to agree. Random, as annoying as Nico s being, you may unwittingly be unknowingly engaging in possible PR hunting. Let’s just assume you’re both town and call it a day. Lol.

[Nancy Drew 39]

so what does tbg's flip mean

Who do we Lynch? NicoRobin, Princess of Reinais,

TehBrawlGuy

or someone from my wagon?

Hmmm . . .

[Nancy Drew 39]

so what does tbg's flip mean

sscum have some form of strongman. i wouldnt be surprised if other abilities resolved at the same time tbg's would have.

So, you think TBH wasn’t scum’s first choice? I guess that would make sense. I certainly was shocked by him being the NK.

He had a really cool role too.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Labyrinth Mafia - Votecount 1.33:

Creature (4): Vartsun, TPFKAP, Shoshin, WhemeStar
TPFKAP (3): Creature, Randomidget, Nancy Drew 39
NicoRobin (2): ArcAngel9, Princess of Renais
Princess of Renais (1): TehBrawlGuy, Joral
ArcAngel9 (0):
Shoshin (0):
WhemeStar (0):
Joral (0):
Nancy Drew 39 (0):
Vartsun (0):
TehBrawlGuy (0):
Randomidget (0):


Not voting: NicoRobin

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The day will end at (expired on 2018-06-07 15:00:00).

Wheme I'm gonna need an explanation for why you switched wagons then switched back when Creature is 150,000% obviously playing in his scum meta. I've seen you correctly identify this before and wagon him with fire, why the flipflopping yday?


also gonna need commentary from the following players on why the fuck they voted off-wagon yesterday, and also what their experience playing with creature is. i will be fact checking this
: - randomidget
: - nancy drew 39
: - arcangel9
: - princess of renais
: - nico robin [who I know has seen creature's scum meta firsthand, and did not bus him there]

I wasn’t opposed to a Creature lynch, I just voted my most confident scumread. I know you weren’t able to participate or influence the vote in any way but prior to yours and Reality’s involuntarily descent into the underground, you guys had been voting each other and you were hardly pushing for a Creature lynch at that time. I’m annoyed too. On MU, you would have needed 7 for a maj but only 4 for a deadline lynch. It’s frustrating because requiring a majority, relies heavily on town cooperation.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also, I am over the last day too. So anyone who wants to lynch Nancy will have to go through me first. So bring it on, nerdz.

I am highly amused by this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

so what does tbg's flip mean

sscum have some form of strongman. i wouldnt be surprised if other abilities resolved at the same time tbg's would have.

So, you think TBH wasn’t scum’s first choice? I guess that would make sense. I certainly was shocked by him being the NK.

He had a really cool role too.

not sure of the logic here

also creature having tbg in their list is potentially a townslip

Did you really expect him to be the NK? I’m assuming that was the rationale behind your strongman theory. Am I missing something?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Creature is scum

Random is also scum

Based on?

[Nancy Drew 39]

[quote="In post 854, randomidget”][quote="In post 850,
also creature having tbg in their list is potentially a townslip[/quote]

Creature did this as scum in one game I played with him, so I don’t see why you’d view it as a “townslip”.

[Nancy Drew 39]

[quote="In post 854, randomidget”][quote="In post 850,
also creature having tbg in their list is potentially a townslip

Creature did this as scum in one game I played with him, so I don’t see why you’d view it as a “townslip”.

fair enough i withdraw it then. my logic was that scum would know who was dead
i maintain its a townslip or faked townslip tho[/quote]

In the game, I referenced, scum!Creature asked why there was a wagon on another player, who wound up flipping town.

I do think it was a slip and not fake though.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If Creature is town I think he needs to get in here and be town Creature lol. Lynchbaity doesn't apply if he's a player very very well known for having s very distinctive scum meta and then playing in that scum meta.

For what it's worth I strongly agree that one of {TPFKAP, Creature} is scum? probably not together

I think both have relatively high scum equity but I agree with you. It doesn’t look like bussing although on MU, scum!Creature nearly always gets bussed. I made the mistake of hardtown reading the wolf who led that wagon.

[Nancy Drew 39]

wait my bad i thought creature's post was from today not yesterday yeah my point doesnt matter sorry for the confusion

Yeah, they’re not really the same because in that game, Creature never suggested ANYONE as a vote and I don’t remember him even voting as scum, on any game on MU. If Creature is scum here, than it may possibly mean a townspew of anyone in that list.

My issue with Creature is, he has neither been playing extremely similarly to either his typical town or scum meta but I agree with the worst, his play is still a helluva lot closer to his typical scum than townplay however.

[Nancy Drew 39]

hi ankhead is starting to tryhard

VOTE: Shoshin

I’m pretty sure she’s town, based on a few interactions we had. In fact, she’s one of my top town atm.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If Creature is town I think he needs to get in here and be town Creature lol. Lynchbaity doesn't apply if he's a player very very well known for having s very distinctive scum meta and then playing in that scum meta.

For what it's worth I strongly agree that one of {TPFKAP, Creature} is scum? probably not together

I think both have relatively high scum equity but I agree with you. It doesn’t look like bussing although on MU, scum!Creature nearly always gets bussed. I made the mistake of hardtown reading the wolf who led that wagon.

Sure, anyone should bus scum!Creature unless he's a SPR. so his flip is gonna be veeeeery high value wrt who his buddies are :3

Still TPFKAP has a scumreadable playstyle in my experience so I'm much more inclined to just make up for d1 by lynching Creature

I’m not opposed to a Creature lynch but If TPKAF replicates anything close to her d1 performance, I will most likely be voting there because her behaviour was causing a lot of WIFOM and confusion and if it continues - which I fully expect it to - I’d rather lynch there first.

TPKAF is still my scumread atm, so I’ll be watching both Creature and her strongly as sell as their respective wagons but for now, I lean more to TKAFP.

[Nancy Drew 39]

AA9 is scum #2

Why?

Your reads are baffling me atm.

[Nancy Drew 39]

so what does tbg's flip mean

sscum have some form of strongman. i wouldnt be surprised if other abilities resolved at the same time tbg's would have.

why strongman? does your strongman comment connect in any way to the nk?
pretty sure tbg used his role last night.

the fact it mentions strongman/strongman like ability in tbg's role

Like 2-shot?

[Nancy Drew 39]

wrt TPFKAP--that is how their mind works and is a weak blanket scumtell (though I agree it's anti town)

It’s a number of things that have pinged me, not the least of which is a complete lack of content behind any of her posts.

I’ve never played with her before but do she always come across as this super scummy?

Vartsun seems to think she’s scum and I think they’ve played with her before.

[Nancy Drew 39]

the overwhelming majority on creature wagon does seem pretty weird if he's town tbh

i still don't understand why tpfkap/renais lynch aren't on the table and why this playerlist is completely OK with the level of bullshit in the thread. realtalk if it continues to be this awful I might just /out

this is probably why tbg died

So, why are you so sure that TPKAF isn’t scum then? This quote could theoretically implicate any one of them, if that’s your reasoning for his death. I do remember that Sag’s vote had Creature at L-2 before they got involuntarily descended to the underground. Also, the number one Creature scumreader was Vartsun. not TBG.

However if Creature fails to continue to produce any meaningful reads, I’ll have no problem lynching there.

[Nancy Drew 39]

basically

I went from the assumption that the underground was all town and that Nico + Nancy are both town.

Most of them make a lot of sense as town under that spotlight, as do joral and to a lesser extent, Vartsun. A bit lesser than that, TGPKAP.

Shoshin makes the most sense as scum in that scenario, followed a bit distantly by AA9. The rest are PoE from there.

Where do you rank Wheme in this?

Okay, I can see where you’re coming from but I’m hardtown reading Shoshin and Vartsun townread Angel due to them cruming a negative utility. However, I’m missing 2 people from my POE, so I’m obviously not correctly scumreading a couple of players.

But I think that TFPKAP/Creature flips will likely flush them out.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't think negative utility crumbs necessarily means anything, it could be a fake posting restriction to make a blatantly scum action otherwise look town.

Oh I forgot about Wheme; he's somewhere between Vartsun and TGPKAP.

Maybe. Yeah, it’s probably NAI.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: creature

ty 4 bus

[Nancy Drew 39]

the overwhelming majority on creature wagon does seem pretty weird if he's town tbh

i still don't understand why tpfkap/renais lynch aren't on the table and why this playerlist is completely OK with the level of bullshit in the thread. realtalk if it continues to be this awful I might just /out

this is probably why tbg died

the overwhelming majority on creature wagon does seem pretty weird if he's town tbh

i still don't understand why tpfkap/renais lynch aren't on the table and why this playerlist is completely OK with the level of bullshit in the thread. realtalk if it continues to be this awful I might just /out

this is probably why tbg died

the first, second or third part?

While it’s possible all 3, I lean to 2 and 3 more. TPFKAP has had an extremely weird reaction to anyone attempting to “stop the bullshit”/shut her up. No way is she town in this game IMO.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: TPFKAP

[Nancy Drew 39]

I kinda feel mentally drained from having to wade through so many shit posts that I can't help but feel like there's some sort of scum conspiracy to clutter this game with so much irrelevant nonsense that it's impossible to sort the town from scum.

KAP I think you're thinking too hard about something that can't be deciphered

You think it is meaningless?

yeah you're adding nothing but noise to this conversation pls stop with that

it's transparently a shitpost

WOW I haven't been shouted down like this in a while.

VOTE: the worst

Shoshin, Reality Check, the worst and of course TehBrawnGuy have all complained about this. Sure TBH and Shoshin also referenced Rennais in their posts as well but she didn’t really get weird about it. TPFKAP’s reaction to the criticism of her posts, was just way over the top defensive.

[Nancy Drew 39]

What if I said I had a guilty on creature

hypothetically

I’m listening. I was wondering what was behind your 180 since your underground non-adventure. My main concern with TPFKAP is the sheer level of agressiveness and WIFOM that she is utilizing to pretty much silence and derail all legitimate town discussion. IOW, whether we lynch Creature or her, we need to find a way to keep her in check in order for town to be able to figure out this game. Rennais may be annoying but she really isn’t WIFOMMING - aggressively or otherwise.

[Nancy Drew 39]

just way over the top defensive

is this more likely to come from town or scum IYE?

In this case, 99.99% scum. Town defensiveness was Nico’s irate reaction to being pushed by me EOD 1. This is much more like collectively forcefeeding a scummy agenda down everyone’s throats.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I wanted to vote for TPkAF but but I didn’t want to let it rand. I ISOd Nico and compared it with her other games, where she least had one original thought. To reference Vartsun, Nico is the epitome of “lurk-ass scum” in this game.

Did I have an 'original thought' on D1 of those games?

Note: Steven Universe 2 mafia and Mini 1936 don't count, cos I was confirmed town-aligned in both of those.

Prove to me that those 'original throughts' were made on D1 of at least three games. If you can't, then your read is a bunch of bs.

I just told I don't have original though on freaking D1 and you are demanding one from me anyway. If you wanna read me, then at least try learning how I play as town and as scum before jumping to baseless conclusions.

Those who know how I play, tell her I do not, cos she clearly won't listen to me.

I just told I don't have original though on freaking D1 and you are demanding one from me anyway. If you wanna read me, then at least try learning how I play as town and as scum before jumping to baseless conclusions.

Answer the damn question instead of being so defensive.

You’ve had two freaking weeks! I don’t believe you have no reads by now.

Randomidget subbed in after you and they’ve been doing a helluva a lot more than you and Creature put together.

That's their playstyle, this is mine. I am not suddenly gonna be able to produce good accurate reads on D1 because I am a flip-based player. So unless you want me to pull random names out of a hat and declare them scum, you're not gonna have reads from me yet.

This is clear town pushback.

[Nancy Drew 39]

just way over the top defensive

is this more likely to come from town or scum IYE?

In this case, 99.99% scum. Town defensiveness was Nico’s irate reaction to being pushed by me EOD 1. This is much more like collectively forcefeeding a scummy agenda down everyone’s throats.

@the worst but if you have a guilty on Creature - hypothetical or otherwise - I’m fine with switching my vote, so long as we don’t allow TPFKAP to run roughshod all over town with her nonsense.

[Nancy Drew 39]

have you played with TPFKAP or have any meta knowledge? I actually see this as town indicative for this person

also TPFKAP are you a hidden alt or
(I know we spoke in schat but I don't wanna main reveal without permission)


pedit: hypothetical guilty ya
I want TPFKAP sorted today

No, I have no meta knowledge of her. I just believe that her play in this game is 100% anti-town and a huge obstacle to town solving this game. TBH, Shoshin and I think Vartsun are all fed up with all of the shit posting. It’s seriously suffocating the life out of this game. TPFKAP is not offering any helpful reads or opinions, she is just straightup aggressively trying to force her WIFOMMY empty agenda onto us.

For example, she mentions things like people aren’t paying attention to something but she never ever clarifies specifically what that is. If she actually either knows/thinks she may have any useful information that will help town, then why doesn’t she just come right out and tell us wtf she’s inferring? But she just continues to post like chicken little and warn us that the sky is falling without ever explaining how. I just don’t see how as town, someone continues to do this ad nauseam without ever even once explaining any of it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry guys

Due to recent IRL events, I have been in a shitty, shitty mood for the past 48 hours, and I can't think of mafia right now.

I'm going on a daytrip and I'll post tonight most likely.

I also have no clue where

Varsoon

is ... X_X

Through skimming the thread, I'm unimpressed with

Creature

and

Renais

;

Joral

is currently my strongest townread.

Also

tgkfap

didn't really respond to me, so their readslist better be fucking good.

~ Taly

Step 1: lol.

Step 2: this is varsoon posting and lying about it for some reason.

Just ask anyone from the alisae hydra game FOR EXAMPLE

Fartsoon, we can 1v1, after Sho is deadbecause there is a reason you are CHAINSAW defending. I can READ YOUR VOICE by the way, and the FACT that you are FAKING which head is posting...wow.

The problem with whats going on right now is that there is no decent coalition to stand behind these accusations and reads. It's too bad that MOST of you can't see what's going on here.

I'm fine with it though. let it simmer. we'll see.

The Worst Nancy Drew 39 Scioness Sajj

s

. Vartsun, TehBrawlGuy, Reality Check

ed

Shoshin. NicoRobin Riku,

TPFKAP

or just

Princess of Renais Creature

, WhemeStar

s

ArcAngel9

's

Joral.

What is this? A reads list?

No seriously what the fuck is this?

it's a mid-page 1 post

I'm sorry that you can't find scum there, but I can.

btw my neighborhood is almost silent

VOTE: the worst

Why did you vote for the worst here?

Witch Hunt.

[Nancy Drew 39]

it's totally anti town I agree

We should just lynch like.....guaranteed scum

I will 100% support a maj lynch on either TPAFKAP or Creature. The last thing I want is another no lynch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

See now, if you want to avoid that, you are going about it the wrong way, for those kinds of comments only make the baby with power want to do it more, because the baby with power would think you are trying to talk the babywith power from doing it because you are actual scum and as stated above, you don't fear most of the players catching you on wits alone.

Lesson to Really Check: never put Baby in a corner.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I can go into theory more if anyone wants to engage it,
I don't think scum lynches are necessarily good for town.

What?

[Nancy Drew 39]

only if you make good investigates

speaking of which, don't ever investigate this slot

if we weren't already a mid-high priority NK, that would jump us straight to the top and that's outright TERRIBLE for town

(this slot will be obvtown eventually anyways)

Are you assuming that they can check role as well as alignment? because otherwise, this makes no sense. Actually it really doesn’t make sense either way tbh.

See, I could say the exact same thing because it logically is a waste of time in my case but I would never ever say, this would boost me to the top and that would be bad for town. It’s obviously bad for any

widely townread

player to be NKed. I would also add the worst and Vartsun to this category: waste of time to investigate - for obvious reasons.

[Nancy Drew 39]

How about this. The baby with power will do it. If you are the town, the baby with power will keep it a secret. If you are scum, the baby with power shall tell everyone about it. How does that sound to you?

I’m really glad we didn’t mislynch you. *me is impressed*

[Nancy Drew 39]

slots like Renais/TPFKAP are better investigates

partially because they're hard to read

but also partially because then everyone will shut up about them if they turn up town

If I were cop, I’d probably investigate players higher up on the food chain, like Angel, Wheme, randomidget or Joral but my preference would be Shoshin, in order to clear her once and for all. I strongly believe she is mislynchbait and am adamantly opposed to any votes on her.

[Nancy Drew 39]

one thing I want to note as well even though I doubt it matters

this head doesn't kill TBG night 1

I still think you’re probably town though, eventhough that post was kind of weird.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You should read the thread, beside some quote walls most are 1 line posts. And RC had some import-ish posts.

Reality scumreads you, Nancy does not. Nico claims role related clear on Nancy, Midget has a grudge against Nico. Just read a thread honestly.

*Note to self: Sajj > cliff notes.*

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: creature

ty 4 bus

I lol'd at this too lol

Wheme’s “np” response was merely icing on the cake. XD

[Nancy Drew 39]

How many scum should we expect in a 15 player game?

4? since this isn’t mountainous.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Labyrinth Mafia - Votecount 1.33:

Creature (4): Vartsun, TPFKAP, Shoshin, WhemeStar
TPFKAP (3): Creature, Randomidget, Nancy Drew 39
NicoRobin (2): ArcAngel9, Princess of Renais
Princess of Renais (1): TehBrawlGuy, Joral
ArcAngel9 (0):
Shoshin (0):
WhemeStar (0):
Joral (0):
Nancy Drew 39 (0):
Vartsun (0):
TehBrawlGuy (0):
Randomidget (0):


Not voting: NicoRobin

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The day will end at (expired on 2018-06-07 15:00:00).

Wheme I'm gonna need an explanation for why you switched wagons then switched back when Creature is 150,000% obviously playing in his scum meta. I've seen you correctly identify this before and wagon him with fire, why the flipflopping yday?


also gonna need commentary from the following players on why the fuck they voted off-wagon yesterday, and also what their experience playing with creature is. i will be fact checking this
: - randomidget
: - nancy drew 39
: - arcangel9
: - princess of renais
: - nico robin [who I know has seen creature's scum meta firsthand, and did not bus him there]

i feel like creature was playing to his scum meta but he didnt care that he was? i think that he would at least have bothered to bullshit some reads towards the end of the day as scum.

Also, I am over the last day too. So anyone who wants to lynch Nancy will have to go through me first. So bring it on, nerdz.

sounds good.
VOTE: nicorobin
i'm not letting them get away with not playing the game.

btw guys anyone who votes me is scum
no evidence for it or anything
they just are

YoU hAvE bEeN wArNeD

also to clarify i have a hard townread on nancy
i just refuse to allow nico to get away with this bullshit

TIL being a PR in a role madness game lets you not play the game.

why do you even play mafia if you dont want to play mafia
unless its a post restriction or some shit, it still doesnt excuse refusing to post any content.

*refuses to vote in lylo*
*blames other people for not flipping someone*

i dont have a problem with you not having reads. i have a problem with you refusing to post any game related content.

Nancy, thoughts on Random?

I obviously liked their vote on TP/letters (her nic is really hard on my dyslexia lol). I completely agreed with their reaction to Nico on d1 but now that it’s beyond blatantly obvious that she’s town now, not so much. As for Creature, his flip will resolve that.

I’m honestly not sure what to make of it at this point.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Creature is OK but I don't think that flip gives much of any info without another scum flip.

The thing about lynches like that is they're traps if the gamestate is one where most of town is pretty deep and only a couple are being competent

It's not necessarily what's going on here but it begs the question of now necessary it is to eliminate that quickly when there's a similar scum equity lynch with far more information attached.

It's bad that you're defending Creature based on really scummy logic ("let's lynch the player that gives us more information instead of the player most likely to flip scum who we're going to lynch anyway at some point").

We could argue theory all you want but in actual practice scum push this type of logic much more often than town because at bottom it benefits scum much more often than town.

lol

VOTE: Shoshin

good vote

No, they’re are really only two decent wagons if you don’t want town to have a no lynch, two days in a row. I think I’m on the better of those two but yours - assuming you stay on Creature, is also good. I think Shoshin is town and a mislynch < no lynch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

so Anka is good at town but (based on second hand meta) doesn't have a strong scum game. our interactions in the Underground have me reasonably comfortable townreading her and her posts here are making me more comfortable. if she is scum we will catch her later.

mastina is eh at town with currently sub par reads, and good at scum. if anka stops posting and Mastina starts posting and it's clear she's pushing an agenda we just lynch RC lol.

If she's scum we'll catch her.
if she's town she'll prolly be night killed before endgame.

it's better to throw investigations towards slots which are LESS likely to be NK'd, and slots which are more difficult to read. Taly's main strength is being able to force others to produce content, his reads are hit and miss but his scumplay is very difficult to tell from his town play. he's unlikely to eat a night kill, which means if he's scum we've caught a deepwolf and if he's town then we've probably locked in a lategame confirmed townie.

similar with Renais, and I wouldn't cop TPFKAP. if we hit like say 5p LyLo with conftown Renais, that removes the lynchbait from LyLo. and Renais is never getting NK'd hahaha

I have no knowledge of Taly’s scum meta but based on his reads alone, he seems villagery to me. @Vartsun, @Taly , who do you prefer? TP/letters or Creature for d2 lynch? My gut wants TP/letters. Anyway, I like this post.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm pretty certain my vote was already there

but if anyone needed any more convincing that Shoshin is scum

that post is it

Sorry, disagree. Wrong /= scummy. You need to devine INTENT, IMO, her intent and tone read villagery to me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

How about this. The baby with power will do it. If you are the town, the baby with power will keep it a secret. If you are scum, the baby with power shall tell everyone about it. How does that sound to you?

I’m really glad we didn’t mislynch you. *me is impressed*

No sarcasm.

It wasn’t.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The Goblin King has begun to sing!

You have all been invited to a masquerade ball.

Just when I have nothing to wear.

[Nancy Drew 39]

or I could show you what happened in corpse party after I sacrificed one of my partners

how lynching scum lost town the game

or I could point you to the recently completed turn of camn game, which had three back to back scumlynches the first three days followed by town lynches until an endgame

I could probably find dozens of more examples for how scumlynches were bad for the game

information is much better

a scum lynch that has support and also gives a ton of information is by far the best possible choice for a lynch even if another slot is obvscum

creature is not that, he's a scum lynch that has support and doesn't give information beyond that

U N T I L - A N O T H E R - S C U M - F L I P S

I've also gone into why I don't believe this particular playerlist is likely to be able to come together and both catch and lynch all the scum after a few days if there aren't already a lot of information to work from out there

so...

???

Look, town screwed up with no lynch d1. Creature lynch > no lynch but TP/letters > Creature IMO.

[Nancy Drew 39]

or I could show you what happened in corpse party after I sacrificed one of my partners

how lynching scum lost town the game

or I could point you to the recently completed turn of camn game, which had three back to back scumlynches the first three days followed by town lynches until an endgame

I could probably find dozens of more examples for how scumlynches were bad for the game

information is much better

a scum lynch that has support and also gives a ton of information is by far the best possible choice for a lynch even if another slot is obvscum

creature is not that, he's a scum lynch that has support and doesn't give information beyond that

U N T I L - A N O T H E R - S C U M - F L I P S

I've also gone into why I don't believe this particular playerlist is likely to be able to come together and both catch and lynch all the scum after a few days if there aren't already a lot of information to work from out there

so...

???

There's lots of games where town lynched scum and scum still won... so fucking what? There's also lots of games where town lynched for information and scum won. That's a terrible way to determine whether the logic itself is pro-scum or pro-town and whether it's more likely to be pushed by scum or more likely to be pushed by town.

My point is that the logic is pushed by scum more often than it's pushed by town because it's an easy way to push for mislynches as well as an easy way to keep scum partners alive for longer. It's especially harmful to a town that just mislynched or a town that no lynched - as we did. I've even pushed this logic before as scum, with the specific intent of saving partners and delaying the town from doing anything helpful to their causes. As a matter of theory, the best town play on any given day is lynching scum, because the longer a scum player is alive, the more power scum has, period. You weaken scum by lynching them, and the weaker they are, the more chance town has of winning because there's less ability for scum to manipulate town in the night and day. Towns win by lynching the player most likely to be scum, not by lynching the player most likely to give you "information" (what the fuck does that even mean in this context?) - and the fact you're pushing this logic is scummy, regardless of your actual alignment or theoretical beliefs about how to play mafia.

As for the idea that this playerlist won't come together, that's a bullshit way to think about this game and it's especially manipulative in this instance - the town isn't coming together regardless of who we lynch because we've got a bunch of shit posters, you (incompetent town or scum), the worst (incompetent town or scum), and so here we are, arguing about dumb things instead of talking about things that matter, like Random's alignment, or Sajj's alignment. You guys would rather vote me for voicing a completely reasonable theoretical point about how to play the game instead of working together to solve the alignment of players who are escaping notice while doing some pretty suspect things? Okay... Sure, this town is fucked if that's the case.

I'm going to try working with the people I think are town - at the moment, that's Nancy and Nico - and if you're town hopefully you'll get on board and start working with us to figure out alignments.

I’d look to anyone aggressively pushing Nico mislynch for starters.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Alright, this is where I'm at:

Nancy, Nico - town

---

WhemeStar - leans town for pushing Creature/Random and because overall he seems to play without any concern for appearances in a way that's more likely to come from town than scum.

Joral - leans town because of his early play but hasn't posted enough to solidify a read.

Vartsun (Varsoon/Taly) - leans town because they haven't done anything to make me think otherwise plus early post seem aimed at sorting alignments.

ArcAngel9 - leans town, because of early negative utility claim, which I think is more likely to be town than scum motivated, and recent posting doesn't really make much sense from a scum perspective - it's the sort of crazy that's more likely to come from town than scum.

---

PFKAP - null, lots of shit posts without doing anything helpful

Princess of Renais - null, lots of shit posts without doing anything helpful

Scioness Sajj - null, because even though there's hints of scum, Nancy says she's town and I'm willing to suspend my read for the moment - as I mentioned earlier, I felt like she was pushing me with a tone of conviction but didn't actually have any conviction behind it, so the push felt fake - and since then she hasn't done anything to make me feel better about her alignment. I tried starting a discussion with her, as a way to get a better sense of her alignment as well as to refine my own reads on Random/Reality, but her answers were boring, so I still don't feel town here - she's mostly just commenting on things without much deeper thinking about the game but at least she's around and posting, so I'm okay trusting Nancy on this for the moment.

---

The Worst - strongly leans scum, because he's made himself unreadable by refusing to answer my questions, and despite telling him that it's causing me paranoia about his alignment at a time when this town needs to come together, not rift apart, he has chosen to continue refusing to answer my questions and thus to continue causing paranoia - in other words, he's intentionally causing me paranoia without any reason to do so and at a time when this town should be working together, it's precisely the right move to make because he gets to hurt town while avoiding getting lynched because nobody wants to lynch him and nobody seems to think that question-dodging is scummy - he's also been supporting votes on me despite offering no reasons to suspect me nor even voting me himself - and his read on Sajj hasn't been explained and I suspect it had no basis (i.e. it was fake) - and I'm also paranoid that he's one of the conspiracy forces trying to clutter the game with lots of pointless posts that make it more difficult for others to become engaged because of the sheer quantity of meaningless posts to wade through because despite his large post count I can't trace any sort of clear thought process trying to sort alignments underlying his posts.

Reality Check (Ank/Mastina) - strongly leans scum, because of terrible early posting, terrible vote on me, pushing pro-scum ideas (lynching for information instead of lynching to kill scum), not responding at all to my analysis of Random, and because if Random/Creature are scum, it's likely that Reality is too - also, they expressly said that scum should be scared of me, despite knowing nothing about me, which makes me think that they KNOW my reads are actually pretty good, specifically the fact that I called them out so early - like, why would Reality say scum would be scared of me if they think all my reads are wrong? Doesn't make any sense, unless Reality is scum. Reality's degree of certainty that I'm scum also doesn't square with anything they've said about my play - I disagree with them about an issue relating to how to play mafia, and suddenly they're 100% convinced I'm scum and won't even engage with me anymore? Won't answer why they're voting me? Won't talk with me about Random? That's the sort of certainty that scum faking a case on town display, because if town they'd have at least some reservations and at least try understanding where I'm coming from - but Reality instead is just straight-up accusatory without any attempt to actually sort alignments here.

---

Creature - scum, because of meta and because he's completely unengaged with the game, not showing much if any sign of scumhunting or figuring things out.

Random - scum, because of unnatural response to Nico, thoughtless response to my analysis, and because of terrible play at the end of D1.

Strongly disagree with you on the worst. The fact they they are strongly pushing a Creature lynch in addition to their consistent thougtful analysis - plus Creature making him his only “official” townread, reads hardtown to me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

oh come on everyone completely aired my shitpost

look fam it's not that deep

(I liked your shitpost :'])

<3

i def think creature lynch is info heavy, but there is debate over what that info acc is

I think both Creature and TP/letters lynch will provide info. I 100% disagree with Reality Check, on their no-info-Creature-lynch stance.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Meh, fuck this. No point putting effort into a losing game. If you the worst and Reality are scum, I don't see any hope of convincing anyone to lynch them - and if they're town, they're actively not working with me, they're making me paranoid as fuck that they're scum, and apparently they want to lynch me, so I've got nothing left to do here.

If Nancy or Nico want to talk about things, let me know.

I think you’re obvtown. I think people who are scumreading you are tonedeaf. That’s one of the main reasons, I’m so convinced that TP/letters is scum. She’s BOTH antagonistic and fake. Either one alone, doesn’t necessarily equal scum but the two of them combined frequently does.

Your sincerity comes through to me clearly in nearly every post. Why? Unlike TP/letters, you have actual content in your posts and are interactive and questioning. I think everyone (who is town in this game) needs to take into account both thought progression and tone. The problem is that too many people in this game are not doing that. The worst, like you, has demonstrated both.

[Nancy Drew 39]

There's lots of games where town lynched scum and scum still won... so fucking what? There's also lots of games where town lynched for information and scum won. That's a terrible way to determine whether the logic itself is pro-scum or pro-town and whether it's more likely to be pushed by scum or more likely to be pushed by town.

Okay, here's the thing:

Town wins by lynching the entire scumteam. Individual lynches don't matter outside of the direct impact it has towards this goal. The primary way to get accurate lynches is information. Therefore, the way town wins the game is by increasing the information per day higher than the amount needed to catch all the scum. Player skill also plays into this in the sense that as player skill as town goes up, the information they need to catch scum goes down. As player skill as scum goes up, the more information is needed to catch them.

Creature is a low information lynch in that it gives us

some

information about the setup, but it's low on information because scum had to have gone into the game already knowing he'd be caught immediately, so it's highly likely that him being caught is planned.

My point is that the logic is pushed by scum more often than it's pushed by town because it's an easy way to push for mislynches as well as an easy way to keep scum partners alive for longer. It's especially harmful to a town that just mislynched or a town that no lynched - as we did.

which is why the top three posters were sent away from the thread for day one, which... surprise surprise, includes this slot and the worst! By this logic, you should also be townreading Sajj + the worst since they were heavily pushing Creature.

I've even pushed this logic before as scum, with the specific intent of saving partners and delaying the town from doing anything helpful to their causes.

including sending the two people you're calling incompetent town or scum and a third you're trying to get a read on

As a matter of theory, the best town play on any given day is lynching scum, because the longer a scum player is alive, the more power scum has, period. You weaken scum by lynching them, and the weaker they are, the more chance town has of winning because there's less ability for scum to manipulate town in the night and day.

scum can manipulate scum lynches

I've done that before. I also got heavily townread for it, which carried me to the end of the game after I killed everybody who could reasonably solve the game and catch me

also, Creature isn't manipulating shit

if we get the impression that roles are actively having a huge impact against town, then yes he's a very good lynch, because at that point, then the information about the setup becomes a lot more valuable

Towns win by lynching the player most likely to be scum, not by lynching the player most likely to give you "information" (what the fuck does that even mean in this context?) - and the fact you're pushing this logic is scummy, regardless of your actual alignment or theoretical beliefs about how to play mafia.

I'll gladly lynch a town today if it nets two scum lynches day 3 and 4

As for the idea that this playerlist won't come together, that's a bullshit way to think about this game and it's especially manipulative in this instance - the town isn't coming together regardless of who we lynch because we've got a bunch of shit posters, you (incompetent town or scum), the worst (incompetent town or scum), and so here we are, arguing about dumb things instead of talking about things that matter, like Random's alignment, or Sajj's alignment. You guys would rather vote me for voicing a completely reasonable theoretical point about how to play the game instead of working together to solve the alignment of players who are escaping notice while doing some pretty suspect things? Okay... Sure, this town is fucked if that's the case.

so... basically you're agreeing with me that town is unlikely to come together

which is why I want to increase the odds that town is going to individually reach the same conclusion that scum is scum rather than just get scum lynches now

there's a such thing as a game over that takes multiple days to realize it's game over

I'm going to try working with the people I think are town - at the moment, that's Nancy and Nico - and if you're town hopefully you'll get on board and start working with us to figure out alignments.

no

you're getting lynched

No! They’re not getting MISlynched if I have anything to say about it. You’re not very familiar with my meta. I have pretty good reads. I recently finished a team hydra game where I was the only one on my team who correctly read two players as town. I sincerely doubt I’m wrong on this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Bit let me also deliver an ultimatum. If I end up with a guilty on RC *the player, not the mod* lynch 'em without question. And if I die, treat it like it was a guilty.

While I vehemently disagree with Reality on Shoshin, I agree with them re: investigation. I respectfully but honestly don’t think it’s the best use of your ability. I think there are far bigger question marks in this game. I strongly advise you looking there first. However, I understand it’s ultimately your call to make.

[Nancy Drew 39]

actually can everyone just LMK if they're willing to lynch creature TODAY or not in their next post pls?

Not doing so is claiming scum with him so please do


Will wait like 48 hrs before I turn this up to eleven
Creature if you're town pls ascend the status of mason buddy in the next 48 hrs

I already told you that I will have no problem switching my vote to Creature, rather than have another no lynch. I still strongly prefer a TP/letters vote.

You. me and pretty much everyone in this game (who isn’t scum) would love for this to happen. Lol.

[Nancy Drew 39]

actually can everyone just LMK if they're willing to lynch creature TODAY or not in their next post pls?

Not doing so is claiming scum with him so please do


Will wait like 48 hrs before I turn this up to eleven
Creature if you're town pls ascend the status of mason buddy in the next 48 hrs

to avoid a NL yes.

re: first point of 1096, we can see who looked like they were expecting creature to get caught no?

that's hard

scum can either 'catch' him themselves, wait until he gets caught and pretend to have 'caught' him before that, or just not comment at all

or really anything

if there's scum intent there, it's probably subtle

i would like everyone to give thoughts on this. i have my opinion, but i want to see what others say.

I wish there was some way to convince everyone to see what we do. :re: TP/letters. I think she already knows we’re onto her and her absence speaks volumes IMO. @Vartsun , @Taly , please help. Lol.

[Nancy Drew 39]

See now, if you want to avoid that, you are going about it the wrong way, for those kinds of comments only make the baby with power want to do it more, because the baby with power would think you are trying to talk the babywith power from doing it because you are actual scum and as stated above, you don't fear most of the players catching you on wits alone.

Lesson to Really Check: never put Baby in a corner.

I lol'd
Also answer my question

Sorry, still getting caught up. You mean about Creature? I already answered that but if I missed it, can you please ask me again. Thanks.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh, and also, if Shoshin flips town, then by your definition of gamethrowing, you'd be doing exactly that by lynching town. You could say you have no way of knowing he is town, but here is the thing: I have no way of knowing you are town either.

I still agree with Reality re:investigation but @Reality Check, you have to agree Nico has a very valid point here. Mislynching Shoshin is terribad for town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

only if you make good investigates

speaking of which, don't ever investigate this slot

if we weren't already a mid-high priority NK, that would jump us straight to the top and that's outright TERRIBLE for town

(this slot will be obvtown eventually anyways)

Are you assuming that they can check role as well as alignment? because otherwise, this makes no sense. Actually it really doesn’t make sense either way tbh.

See, I could say the exact same thing because it logically is a waste of time in my case but I would never ever say, this would boost me to the top and that would be bad for town. It’s obviously bad for any

widely townread

player to be NKed. I would also add the worst and Vartsun to this category: waste of time to investigate - for obvious reasons.

what?

you literally saw me SHOW why it's a bad idea; I'm a competent town that can catch scum and sway town to lynch them while being blatantly obvtown in the process

I also just finished another game where I basically hard-carried town by catching scum and swaying town to lynch them while being blatantly obvtown in the process

why would you need a mechanical clear to accurately read this slot?

I really don’t see how this invalidates my point. Are you seriously suggesting that mislynching you is somehow worse than mislynching, the worst, Vartsun or me? That makes no sense whatsoever. Mislynching any ACTIVE villa is always bad for town. I don’t see how your mislynch is worse for town than any other. If you seriously believe this, I have no words. In a regular game, I would not be questioning this nearly as much.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ank is obv towning rly hard rn

Yeah, they’re acting like their mislynch is so much worse than anyone else’s Nico, I retract my objection to you investigating them. It’s just too damn much IMO.

[Nancy Drew 39]

slots like Renais/TPFKAP are better investigates

partially because they're hard to read

but also partially because then everyone will shut up about them if they turn up town

If I were cop, I’d probably investigate players higher up on the food chain, like Angel, Wheme, randomidget or Joral but my preference would be Shoshin, in order to clear her once and for all. I strongly believe she is mislynchbait and am adamantly opposed to any votes on her.

if that's what it takes to get Sho-scum lynched, then go for it.

She’s town ffs!

[Nancy Drew 39]

So, basically, I'm willing to lynch any of the worst, Reality, Creature, or Random.

I will fight you on the worst. I think randomidget’s vote on TP/letters is unlikely if their scum. Creature is probably the best option and contrary to what Reality is saying, will yield tons of info. I just think TP/letters is a better option. I’m starting to give up hope of convincing anyone of this besides randomidget.

[Nancy Drew 39]

OKAY. LET ME GIVE YOU HEADS UP

READ THE DAY START FLAVOR. THERE IS A HIT ABOUT SOMEONE THERE.

AMD DONT ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.

Anyone who votes me or Nancy is scum. This ain't a bluff. I am a baby with power. You have been warned.

Are you serious? I’ve been townreading you mainly because of your TP/letters vote. How you can still scumread Nico at this point, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Are you serious?

Nico is clearly obvtown. I was townreading you mainly for your TP/letters vote. How you think that Nico is still scum, makes absolutely no sense anymore.
Can we lynch this. It should have happened yesterday.

YoU hAvE bEeN wArNeD

Another scum!

VOTE: creature

I am okay with lynch too. Creature is most certainly not scum.

But.....there is only one baby with power. There can't be two or more babies with power......

I am serious. Lets get this.

VOTE: Nicorobin

Hey, how about you and I lynch this? Then I won't inv. you.

Im down. I would say my main pool rn is them, tpf, renais and shoshin

Are you serious? How you can still scumread NIco at this point makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Nancy Drew 39]

OKAY. LET ME GIVE YOU HEADS UP

READ THE DAY START FLAVOR. THERE IS A HIT ABOUT SOMEONE THERE.

AMD DONT ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.

Anyone who votes me or Nancy is scum. This ain't a bluff. I am a baby with power. You have been warned.

Can we lynch this. It should have happened yesterday.

YoU hAvE bEeN wArNeD

Another scum!

VOTE: creature

I am okay with lynch too. Creature is most certainly not scum.

But.....there is only one baby with power. There can't be two or more babies with power......

I am serious. Lets get this.

VOTE: Nicorobin

The hell I won’t. I think Nico is town. Their response to my EOD push on them was the epitome of irate town. Why are you so sure that Creature cannot be scum? Creature was the worst’s hydra partner and he is scumreading him. D1, you opposed a Creature lynch, because “he’s too cute to lynch”, now suddenly you’re beyond convinced? I’m totally not buying this. I think you’re pushing a mislynch. @Shoshin , @the worst , what are your reads on this? I’m not liking it one bit. BOTH the Creature and Nico reads.

[Nancy Drew 39]

OKAY. LET ME GIVE YOU HEADS UP

READ THE DAY START FLAVOR. THERE IS A HIT ABOUT SOMEONE THERE.

AMD DONT ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.

Anyone who votes me or Nancy is scum. This ain't a bluff. I am a baby with power. You have been warned.

Can we lynch this. It should have happened yesterday.

YoU hAvE bEeN wArNeD

Another scum!

VOTE: creature

I am okay with lynch too. Creature is most certainly not scum.

But.....there is only one baby with power. There can't be two or more babies with power......

I am serious. Lets get this.

VOTE: Nicorobin

Hey, how about you and I lynch this? Then I won't inv. you.

Im down. I would say my main pool rn is them, tpf, renais and shoshin

That offer was for RC only.....

Good catch. Lol.

[Nancy Drew 39]

As i said, shoshin seems to have chosen random stances rather than having genuine process

Disagree. They clearly have “genuine process”, just maybe misdirected.

[Nancy Drew 39]

breaking my "no more posting tonight" thing just to respond to this

No! They’re not getting MISlynched if I have anything to say about it. You’re not very familiar with my meta. I have pretty good reads. I recently finished a team hydra game where I was the only one on my team who correctly read two players as town. I sincerely doubt I’m wrong on this.

welcome to Schrodinger's Shoshin, the slot that is both town and scum at the same time for the same reason

What is your take on Angel saying they are certain that Creature can’t be scum and their push on Nico?

Rn, I ‘m up for one of TP/letters, Creature, or Angel lynch - in that order. On d1, Angel said that Creature was too “cute to lynch”. If randomidget switches their vote to Nico, they’re also on the table. Again, I totally disagree with you on Shoshin.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The hell I won’t. I think Nico is town. Their response to my EOD push on them was the epitome of irate town. Why are you so sure that Creature cannot be scum? Creature was the worst’s hydra partner and he is scumreading him. D1, you opposed a Creature lynch, because “he’s too cute to lynch”, now suddenly you’re beyond convinced? I’m totally not buying this. I think you’re pushing a mislynch. @Shoshin , @the worst , what are your reads on this? I’m not liking it one bit. BOTH the Creature and Nico reads.

I think you have a good point. I forgot about the "he's too cute to lynch" post, that shift from light defense to absolute certainty is definitely suspect.

Yeah and for no reason. I am highly sus of their push on Nico as well. Doubting Creature could be scum is one thing but hardtown reading him is quite another. Creature was the worst’s hydra buddy so he ought to be able to read him better than anyone. He was originally hesitant about a Creature lynch and has now done a logically progrssed 180. I’m thinking Angel is maybe desperate to save their scumpal? I think scum is to be found on the Nico wagon. The worst, Sajj, Reality, you, me are all townreading Nico. I hope Nico reconsiders and investigates whomever is left on her wagon. That wagon is uberscummy IMO.

[Nancy Drew 39]

that entire post was scummy

I indicated as such very shortly after seeing it

Sorry, I’ve doing my best to play catchup. I’m down with lynching anyone on the Nico wagon.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I still badly want to lynch TP/letters but Angel’s post has swayed me,- in the opposite direction from what they intended.

UNVOTE: TP/letters

VOTE: Creature

[Nancy Drew 39]

Baby with power commands you to lynch here. Baby with power will inv. anyone who doesn't.

Nah. I think Creature and Angel are w/w. I don’t think random and Angel are w/w.

[Nancy Drew 39]

rn ppls picks for scum are creature, shoshin, tpf, me. aa9 and RC.
thoughts on those slots?

I think TPF, Creature and Angel are scum. Possibly Rennais as the fourth? There were some weird interactions between them. Rennais said that “Angel is town like me”, I believe. It will be interesting to see if GIF sheeps them on Nico vote. Rennais also had Creature crossed out on her readslist.

[Nancy Drew 39]

sucks that he probably replaced into a scum slot but I'm still glad he's here

Hopefully he will be much easier to read.

[Nancy Drew 39]

rn ppls picks for scum are creature, shoshin, tpf, me. aa9 and RC.
thoughts on those slots?

I think TPF, Creature and Angel are scum. Possibly Rennais as the fourth? There were some weird interactions between them. Rennais said that “Angel is town like me”, I believe. It will be interesting to see if GIF sheeps them on Nico vote. Rennais also had Creature crossed out on her readslist.

agree with this. i would throw shoshin and wheme in the pool as well.

Why Wheme? - my main issue with him has been his weird pushes on Joral but he voted Creature and I liked his read on Nico. Obviously based on wagonomics, I can’t write him off either. We obviously have to agree to disagree on Shoshin. I don’t see how scum!Shoshin hardtown reads Nico. I can’t see Sho being w/w with Angel, soley based on that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

wheme is more poe and a lack or reasons to TR him
townreading nico rly isnt a town indicator, look at how much flak i took for pushing her

It can be because Angel is pushing her, so the connection is likely, both townreading Creature AND scumreading Nico.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, can you talk to me about TP?

Spoiler:

[instagram][/instagram]

I wish the goblins would come and take you away right now.

This was a very early post directed to the worst. Coincidence or not?

Just ask anyone from the alisae hydra game FOR EXAMPLE

Fartsoon, we can 1v1, after Sho is deadbecause there is a reason you are CHAINSAW defending. I can READ YOUR VOICE by the way, and the FACT that you are FAKING which head is posting...wow.

Early supper-agressive push on Shosin and irrelevant shade on Vartsun.

It wasn’t solely based on that. Vartsun - one of my top town - also had a case on her.

The problem with whats going on right now is that there is no decent coalition to stand behind these accusations and reads. It's too bad that MOST of you can't see what's going on here.

I'm fine with it though. let it simmer. we'll see.

She never bothers to either elaborate or explain this.

yeah you're adding nothing but noise to this conversation pls stop with that

it's transparently a shitpost

WOW I haven't been shouted down like this in a while.

VOTE: the worst

Slaps vote on the worst for correctly calling her out for intentionally clogging up and derailing thread.

u have no POWER OVER ME

The worst gets it.

I will be there for you

bruuuuuuh

im so stoned rn

watch labyrinth
???
profit

your brother is the love of my life btw

Do you do hydra sign offs btw?

thank you <3
nice to play with you again
both of you actually

VOTE: the worst
hello? do i know you?

LOL sorry
great to see you too sajj <3

I was laughing at myself, my own stupidity >;

yeah ok the future father of my ducklings has his issues..... >:

VOTE: Joral probs

Who's there

Trusting you to be town here Creature
I need my hydra buddy back

this doesn't sound like town creature yet.
ok lemme do some critcialt thniknig!!!

yeah you're adding nothing but noise to this conversation pls stop with that

it's transparently a shitpost

but fine, I think you are town. scum usually don't have the guts to throw their weight around that much.

VOTE: the worst

Highly suspicious shade on the worst - the kind that wolves are wont to do, when a villa gets in their way.

TPFKAP post (sorry for messing up the formatting)

Why did you vote for the worst here?

The only type of player to make this kind of post, is either a completely noob (less than 5 games) or scum. TPFKAP is not a noob and no player who is town, takes an RVS vote - as opposed to an RVS post - seriously.

This post reeks of confirmation bias.

VOTE: the worst

Why did you vote for the worst here?

What possible town motivation is behind this post?

Sorry guys

Due to recent IRL events, I have been in a shitty, shitty mood for the past 48 hours, and I can't think of mafia right now.

I'm going on a daytrip and I'll post tonight most likely.

I also have no clue where

Varsoon

is ... X_X

Through skimming the thread, I'm unimpressed with

Creature

and

Renais

;

Joral

is currently my strongest townread.

Also

tgkfap

didn't really respond to me, so their readslist better be fucking good.

~ Taly

Step 1: lol.

Step 2: this is varsoon posting and lying about it for some reason.

Just ask anyone from the alisae hydra game FOR EXAMPLE

Fartsoon, we can 1v1, after Sho is deadbecause there is a reason you are CHAINSAW defending. I can READ YOUR VOICE by the way, and the FACT that you are FAKING which head is posting...wow.

The problem with whats going on right now is that there is no decent coalition to stand behind these accusations and reads. It's too bad that MOST of you can't see what's going on here.

I'm fine with it though. let it simmer. we'll see.

The Worst Nancy Drew 39 Scioness Sajj

s

. Vartsun, TehBrawlGuy, Reality Check

ed

Shoshin. NicoRobin Riku,

TPFKAP

or just

Princess of Renais Creature

, WhemeStar

s

ArcAngel9

's

Joral.

What is this? A reads list?

No seriously what the fuck is this?

it's a mid-page 1 post

I'm sorry that you can't find scum there, but I can.

btw my neighborhood is almost silent

VOTE: the worst

Why did you vote for the worst here?

Witch Hunt.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, please talk to me about your TP/letters read as well as your reads on the worst and Reality. It would be really helpful if you can address my analysis and convince me that the worst and Reality are town.

I have been hardtown reading the worst from the getgo. There is a natural thought progression in all of his posts. Also, Creature put him as his only official top town. He did something very similar in a game I player with him as scum. His whole thought progression on Creature started out as wanting to townread him to eventually deciding that he wasn’t playing to his town meta in this game. As for Really, Creature initially had them as town but didn’t uncross them off their readslist. Other than that, the worst’s ISO speaks for itself.

As far as random is concerned, I. think he’s probably town. Like I said, I think that Creature and Angel are w/w but that Creature and random cannot be because Angel outright calls random scum. If Creature flips scum, then Angel is the next clear logical lynch. If (highly unlikel IMO) he flips town, then TP/letters is the next most logical lynch. My current POE is TP/letters, Creature, Angel and not sure on the fourth yet.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Who wants to be that random is the Goblin King?

VOTE: randomidget

My first vote is in the works. Congratulations!

I think that Goblin King's stuff is just events, not player's actions.

I agree and I think that Joral hit the nail on the head when he said that the 3 players were chosen by postcounts. I also think the underground thing explains the worst/Reality read changes on each other. @Shoshin

IOW, pay close attention to the mechanics people. Read changes following Jareth/TGK “singing” aren’t either sus or scummy in any way. Sudden inexplicable readchanges not based on either actual gamestate/ISO evidence or mechanics, definitely are.

That’s why Angel sudden hardtown Creature read is highly sus, because it can neither be explained either by gamestate or mechanics.

[Nancy Drew 39]

idk, sometimes i feel like i'm reading her for character. like some bad combo of ego and lack of experience.

i'm on board with hypothetical aa9 lynch btw

There is no world where Creature is scum and Angel is town in this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Soshin are your reads in order in the sections in 1152?

Roughly.

You seriously think that Angel is still town after that gross Nico push and their completely inexplicable sudden hardtown read on Creature? If Creature flips scum (like I think he probably will), then Angel had better start lolcatting IMO. XD

[Nancy Drew 39]

for the record I'm also in a PT with Creature as a result of the masquerade thing and I'm begging him not to be scum and getting nothing

Guys I'm shook

Ah, guys we have to 100% lynch Creature tonight. This post all but confirms this.

Angel’s scum equity just hit the roof as well. They must be d3 lynch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Soshin are your reads in order in the sections in 1152?

Roughly.

You seriously think that Angel is still town after that gross Nico push and their completely inexplicable sudden hardtown read on Creature? If Creature flips scum (like I think he probably will), then Angel had better start lolcatting IMO. XD

I'm null on Angel - that reads list was made before I saw Angel's hardtown read on Creature and I hadn't had time to digest it yet. I can tell you that I'm much more sure about Random flipping scum than Angel.

I also feel the same as you but in reverse. Angel is scum, because Creature is also scum and there is no way that Angel and random can be scum together.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I strongly believe the underground thing is very much a player action

It looks about the same as today's masquerade. Do you think it is also player action?

that's why it's very very likely a player action

this might be too close to spoiling the full theory of what I think this is

oh well, it's not like it's too difficult to figure out

I did a thing guys.

I disagree. I strongly suspect that Jareth/TGK is none other than our glorious mod, RadiantCowbells. Why? because I think all of Jareth/TGK’s “singing” seem to involve hoods. Hoods are bad for scum because it’s much easier to correctly read someone you’re in a PT with.

[Nancy Drew 39]

for the record I'm also in a PT with Creature as a result of the masquerade thing and I'm begging him not to be scum and getting nothing

Guys I'm shook

Ah, guys we have to 100% lynch Creature tonight. This post all but confirms this.

Angel’s scum equity just hit the roof as well. They must be d3 lynch.

Nancy ily

<3

[Nancy Drew 39]

I also feel the same as you but in reverse. Angel is scum, because Creature is also scum and there is no way that Angel and random can be scum together.

I strongly disagree that Angel and Random can't be scum together but I'll leave that discussion for tomorrow.

I have pretty good reads and I think random is town. But Creature scum flip 99.99% outs Angel as his scumpal. It’s beyond blatantly obvious at this point. Angel was clearly pushing a Nico mislynch to save their buddy. How are you, ANYONE not seeing this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I strongly believe the underground thing is very much a player action

It looks about the same as today's masquerade. Do you think it is also player action?

that's why it's very very likely a player action

this might be too close to spoiling the full theory of what I think this is

oh well, it's not like it's too difficult to figure out

I did a thing guys.

I disagree. I strongly suspect that Jareth/TGK is none other than our glorious mod, RadiantCowbells. Why? because I think all of Jareth/TGK’s “singing” seem to involve hoods. Hoods are bad for scum because it’s much easier to correctly read someone you’re in a PT with.

look at the context

it's pretty glaring to tell what I'm talking about if you catch it

Unless you’re claiming to be Jareth, I’m not following . . .

Or you think Jareth is a town role? *confused*

[Nancy Drew 39]

why would scum push nico of all people specifically to save obvscum

that makes no sense

Are you kidding me? Nico hardclaimed investigative. Of course scum wants that slot dead. How are you not seeing that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

why would scum push nico of all people specifically to save obvscum

that makes no sense

Are you kidding me? Nico hardclaimed investigative. Of course scum wants that slot dead. How are you not seeing that?

On what basis is Angel hardtown reading Creature when the worst - whose Creature assessment is the most trustworthy and accurate, is not?

And on d1, Angel said that Creature was “too cute to lynch”. Yeah, that wasn’t suspicious at all.

Also, on d1 Nico made a fine mislynch, which is exactly what scum do. They push lhf all of the goddamned time.

[Nancy Drew 39]

why would scum push nico of all people specifically to save obvscum

that makes no sense

Are you kidding me? Nico hardclaimed investigative. Of course scum wants that slot dead. How are you not seeing that?

...........................................................

you do that during the night, not during the day

unless there's a damn good reason to

Well of course, there’s a good reason to. If scum can get a villa mislynched, more KP for them. And why wouldn’t scum try to save their buddy from being lynched? Are you seriously this egregiously on the wrong track here or just WIFOMMING us because what you’re saying makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Nancy Drew 39]

so AA9 starts pushing the nicowagon after she obvtowns

In your opinion, not EVERYONE’S. I already explained it. Nico hardclaimed investigative. There is most likely a doc in this game who will protect her from the NK. Scum has no idea who Nico will investigate and a Nico guilty seals their fate. I seriously don’t believe we’re even debating this.

I’m really not liking you defending Angel who’s very likely obvscum at this point, based on the worst’s 99.99 % bankable Creature scumread. No way does town!Angel (town!Anyone at this point) hardtown read Creature at this point.

[Nancy Drew 39]

well yeah it's good for scum if it goes through

the problem is it's DOA

it's never going through

so there's no point in scum pushing it

Angel is obviously trying to save their scumpal. This conversation is pointless. Angel is 99.99% w/w with Creature if he (almost certainly) flips scum.

At this point, I am highly sus about anyone other than random (who is on the only other probable scum wagon) who refuses to switch their vote to Creature. We need an 8 vote majority and anyone who remains off-wagon is being anti-town, IMO.

[Nancy Drew 39]

see I think a lot of the reason you were never able to understand anything I was saying in necromancer was for this exact reason

I look at things in the longer term and see if something fits, it kind of feels like you keep thinking I'm wrong or scummy because whatever I'm commenting on at the moment isn't very sensical by itself

except it does make sense... just when you look beyond it

Pretend I’m lobotomized then, spell it out for me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

the general principle sure, but nico as a target is nonsensical

No, it’s not - not even remotely.

Well all my braincells have permanently been killed off, try convincing me of that then.

[Nancy Drew 39]

the general principle sure, but nico as a target is nonsensical

No, it’s not - not even remotely.

Well all my braincells have permanently been killed off, try convincing me of that then.

You have also very wrongly claimed that Creature is a “no info” lynch, when anyone who is reading the current gamestate accurately, can clearly see how much bs that is.

Creature is almost certainly w/w with Angel and I can find plenty of posts linking Rennais to both of them - especially Angel but I want to give GIF a fair shot in helping us get an accurate read on him because maybe there is some alternative explanation for Rennais connection to either of them. The jury’s still out on that slot but not on Angel, if Creature (almost certainly) flips scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

welp

I'm getting more confident that I'm on the right track after that AA9 post

Huh? I've explained why I think the way I do. You disagree with the way I think. That doesn't mean what I think is "random." Nor does it mean that I'm "ignoring" your position - I disagree with it, period. I'm not going to clutter the game up with a point-by-point argument and rebuttal about something that doesn't impact our alignments - you think one way, I think another, and the position I hold is one that's quite reasonable and normal for a townie to hold.

Let me ask you this: is it unfathomable to you that a townie would believe that lynching guaranteed scum is the pro-town choice rather than lynching for information? You think townies wouldn't think the way I do about this theory issue?

it's not scummy to think lynching obvscum is the best choice regardless

it's scummy to push

NOT

thinking that as scummy despite it being explained without explaining why that thought process is scummy

Reality, instead of defending yourself from what I'm saying, why don't you answer the questions I asked you earlier - your thoughts on Random, and why you're voting me?

my thoughts on random is that he's in the poe list

I'm voting you because you're scum
you're scum because your thought processes and thought trajectories aren't town.

that entire post was scummy

I indicated as such very shortly after seeing it

it would give the whole thing away if I told you whether the player was town or scum

so AA9 starts pushing the nicowagon after she obvtowns

well yeah it's good for scum if it goes through

the problem is it's DOA

it's never going through

so there's no point in scum pushing it

the general principle sure, but nico as a target is nonsensical

So why the 180 on Angel being scummy? And I think random and Sho are town. Random shouldn’t be in your POE. I’m gut reading them both as town. Of course, Sho should realize by now that the worst is obvtown.

[Nancy Drew 39]

it would give the whole thing away if I told you whether the player was town or scum

What will be given away if you identify the player’s -WHICH player btw - alignment?

[Nancy Drew 39]

1349 was referring to nico being obvtown

I know. I’m a helluva a lot smarter than you give me credit for.

[Nancy Drew 39]

same here tbh my theory about it being maybe non user actions was mostly around the fact it was soundtrack order. this is prolly a scum dreaming god or JOAT or maybe factional 1 shots

look at undertale mafia

the third party had actions with effects similarish to this (Maxous' role for reference)

You think Jareth is a third party? Who do you think is third party and third party isn’t pro-town. There is obviously no SK in this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

same here tbh my theory about it being maybe non user actions was mostly around the fact it was soundtrack order. this is prolly a scum dreaming god or JOAT or maybe factional 1 shots

look at undertale mafia

the third party had actions with effects similarish to this (Maxous' role for reference)

You think Jareth is a third party? Who do you think is third party and third party isn’t pro-town. There is obviously no SK in this game.

I think you may be tinfoiling. Why would a 3P get day actions when no other player does? That would be bastard and this game isn’t. I think you’re conflating wincons with with player actions. I think we can safely say now that everytime Jareth sings, a new hood is born. This is entirely useless to scum and unlike what I think you’re referencing in that other game, I fail to see how hoods benefit a 3P.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm not arguing for AA9 being town

I'm arguing that your reason for the nicopush being scummy isn't reasonable

Eventhough it blatantly obviously is. I already explained why but for some inexplicable reason, you seem to be allergic/obtuse to obvious logic in this case.

Once again: Nico hardcop claimed. There is a higher than likely chance that there’s a doc who will protect her from the NK. If a town doc/protective targets Nico - extremely likely IMO, then scum can’t kill that slot but lynches OTOH are doc-proof, so that’s clearly why they’re pushing Nico lynch.

*My heads hurts*

[Nancy Drew 39]

IM SO LOSTTT

AT LEAST IM CONF TOWN

How are you “CONF TOWN”? Did Nico investigate you n0 or am I missing something?

[Nancy Drew 39]

page 43

i think i might be coming around to tring soshin
random is fine, rest didn't really change

if aa9 is scum so is por
perhaps,

I like your reads. I think there are numerous posts that link Creature/Angel/Rennais together. I’m waiting on GIF to help correctly sort out that slot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

well yeah it's good for scum if it goes through

the problem is it's DOA

it's never going through

so there's no point in scum pushing it

They don’t need the lynch to actually go through,

all they really need is enough votes to prevent a Creature lynch from happening

. What part of we need 8 to lynch are you not getting?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I am in a PT with GiF and he's not talking in there either.

Oh that PT is unauthorized for me.

Also what is this creature/arc w/w

If that w means wolf, AA9 is defo town here.

If that w means wolf, AA9 is defo town here.

Why?

for the record I'm also in a PT with Creature as a result of the masquerade thing and I'm begging him not to be scum and getting nothing

Guys I'm shook

Not been feeling inspired enough to play this game lately

Also, I'm not one to use PTs tbh

Hmm . . . Is anyone STILL seriously doubting Creature is scum? GIF town defending Angel for no reason whatsoever is NAGL IMO.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

[quote=RadiantCowbells post_id=10246675 time=1528891331 user_id=20971 post_num=1250]Labyrinth Mafia - Votecount 2.48:

Creature (4): TPFKAP, The Worst, WhemeStar, Nancy Drew 39
randomidget (2): NicoRobin, Shoshin
Shoshin (2): Reality Check, Scioness Sajj
TPFKAP (1): randomidget
NicoRobin (1): ArcAngel9
The Worst (0):
Nancy Drew 39 (0):
Scioness Sajj (0):
Vartsun (0):
Reality Check (0):
Princess of Renais (0):
WhemeStar (0):
ArcAngel9 (0):
Joral (0):

Not voting: Vartsun, Princess of Renais, Creature, Joral

With 14 alive it's 8 to lynch.

Spoiler:

The day will end at (expired on 2018-06-25 12:00:00).

Replacing Princess of Renais, Joral, Vartsun and TPFKAP.

[/quote]

[Nancy Drew 39]

well yeah it's good for scum if it goes through

the problem is it's DOA

it's never going through

so there's no point in scum pushing it

They don’t need the lynch to actually go through,

all they really need is enough votes to prevent a Creature lynch from happening

. What part of we need 8 to lynch are you not getting?

that's never going to work unless it causes a no lynch

Hello? No lynch is great for scum, why the hell do you think the worst is pushing so hard for Creature lynch? *bangshead a thousand more times*

And FYI, wtf do you think happened d1? I misunderstood the that you needed a maj to have a deadline lynch because there is no way Creature would not have gotten lynched on MU.

The whole derailming and distraction to push other wagons than Creature, is precisely what’s going to sink town if we don’t get a d2 lynch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

VOTE: the worst

VOTE: joral

I don't really think Joral is scum tbh

Why not?

VOTE: Reality

I don't

really

think Joral is scum

tbh

I bolded some of the language that pinged me. At this point, it made no sense from a town perspective to hesitantly defend Joral - literally none - and language like "really" and "tbh" suggests that Reality don't believe what they're saying themselves. And when questioned about it, Reality completely ignored me... So I'm happy with where my vote is.

this progression is not natural

the worst, what's your read on Reality? any reason I'm wrong about them?

faintly nullish badtown rn across the both heads

Why badtown rather than scum?

faintly nullish badtown rn across the both heads

Why badtown rather than scum?

dem reads

Yeah, they're pretty bad - but why is that town rather than scum?

this shift is not natural after the above

i don't really like 145. but since we are speaking is there anything else that you don't like about rc?

Their reads suck, they lack any sort of internal logic, and their play feels passive. You're probably right that I'm distant but don't take that as a scum-tell - I'm guessing it's because I don't know anyone so I'm relating to people as strangers, whereas most others here seem to have some history together.

this is independently scummy

If Reality's town, there's a certain degree of paranoia underlying Wheme's vote that feels very town. Like, why would scum Wheme alienate town Reality, the one player who reads Wheme as strong town?

this type of logic is what I'm reading in Shoshin's interactions towards us, plus there's this weird feeling that shoshin is already setting up for our townflip despite having no support for it happening

...I can't follow your thought process too well with some of these votes.

What don't you follow? I explained the vote on Reality but it's obvious nobody wants to pressure them so I'm voting my other suspect. What's confusing about the vote on Sajj? She posts lots of meaningless commentary and doesn't commit to anything.

"I'm not scummy, I swear! look! there's another person doing exactly the same thing as me!"

Look at my correct % in recent games. I'm done trying to convince you people. My record speaks for itself.

I don't think scum would boast about how great their reads usually are.

shoshin has never met the mod before

VOTE: the worst for an answer on why Sajj is town.

sweaty get off your high horse and go find actual scum

If you helped me out, then maybe I wouldn't vote you. But if you're going to obscure your alignment, then I'm going to assume it's because you're scum.

every other post in my ISO is transparent and conspicuously town motivated. if you get a stick up your ass abt one post which is VERY OBVIOUSLY hinting that I'm planning something with obscuring my read then I can only assume you're scum using an insanely stupid tunnel as a smokescreen.

I disagree. I still have no clue why you read Reality as "badtown" rather than "scum," and you've cluttered the game with tons of pointless posts. I liked your vote on Wheme and that was about it. I've seen scum do exactly what you've done in this game multiple times (including the whole "I'm not going to explain my reads yet because I have plans"), so if that's how you're going to play, I'm going to vote you until I have strong reason to believe you're town. I was hoping your explanation on Sajj would help me read you and her better... but I guess you don't want that?

weak

this is the type of trend I've been seeing in a lot of Shoshin's votes; there's a lot of making up reasons to fit a scumread that they decided to have without a whole lot of sound analysis behind it. read: their later worst/realitycheck scumreads, it's FULL of this

WhemeStar - leans town for pushing Creature/Random and because overall he seems to play without any concern for appearances in a way that's more likely to come from town than scum.

Joral - leans town because of his early play but hasn't posted enough to solidify a read.

Vartsun (Varsoon/Taly) - leans town because they haven't done anything to make me think otherwise plus early post seem aimed at sorting alignments.

ArcAngel9 - leans town, because of early negative utility claim, which I think is more likely to be town than scum motivated, and recent posting doesn't really make much sense from a scum perspective - it's the sort of crazy that's more likely to come from town than scum.

the three townreads on whemestar/joral/vartsun are all natural because they're correct. the townread on arcangel9 is jagged and more vague than the others despite having more words on it.

So, basically, I'm willing to lynch any of the worst, Reality, Creature, or Random.

this team makes no sense

The Worst + Reality suspecting each other on D1 but coming into D2 100% convinced they're town? Makes sense as scum interactions.

Reality delaying the lynching of Creature? Makes sense as scum/scum.

Reality listing Random as possible scum but as soon as I point out that Random is scum Reality votes me for idiotic reasons and doesn't say anything about Random at all? Makes sense as scum/scum.

The Worst supporting Reality's vote on me while offering no comments on Random? Makes sense as scum/scum.

It actually makes too much sense that I'm worried it's wrong somewhere.

bad logic followed by a preemptive /out from seeing this through

I skipped a bunch of posts and didn't go through the whole ISO, but this should be enough to at least show what I'm trying to say regarding Shoshin-scum

1. Read trajectories make no sense
2. Her playstyle reads as significantly leaning towards stream of conscious; players with this style that roll scum have a tendency to want to make sure their thoughts can be seen as consistent, which is why there's a lot of weird justifications for her votes and thoughts that are just added on, like it's an afterthought
3. She is trying to look like she has solid stances, yet she also tries to give herself as much room as possible to change them if she needs to.

Now if you cross-reference it with my reads...

It makes a lot of sense for her to be scum with AA9
It makes sense for her to be scum with Creature
I could see her also being scum with TGPKAP
Somewhat possible scum with random (mainly true if a lot of the general reads in this game are correct, that would need to be verified first)
Not quite as likely scum with Renais/GIF

Shoshin + ArcAngel9 + (Creature/randommidget/GIF/TGPKAP)

it makes a lot of sense where I'm standing

Sorry, I don’t see this at all. What I see is a sincere villagery process leading to SOSME misguided conclusions. All this wall really convinces me of is how villagery the worst, Sajj are. I think you are reaching. I also fail to see Sho/Creature connection. And while Wheme isn’t currently in my POE, I’m very far from hardtown reading him. You are wrong about both Sho and random. I think the worst was probably right about you possibly being “bad town”, because you sound like you really believe all of the questionable conclusions you’re drawing. I think a) Sho was confused about the underground hood with you/worst/Sajj and drew erroneous conclusions az a result of that. b) While I still think you’re probably town, I don’t think Sho’s reasons for scumreading you are really that off the wall. Why? Simply because it is so damned important to have a maj lynch today, your “no info” anti-Creature push IS and should be highly suspect, solely based on that. The reason I’m townreading you is because I really feel you have actually confibiased and duped yourself and are earnestly and sincerely trying to make the rest of us drink the same koolade that you drank.

[Nancy Drew 39]

SHOSIN AND RANDOM IS SCUM VS SCUM

No.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i will posting this in paragraphs, probably easier to read

it looks like you are interacting with people to the point you can get a scumread on them and you cling to that.

That's not what I'm doing - see my interaction with Nancy, for example - so I don't know why that's the sense you're getting. I've tried interacting with the players who are here but it's not going well and I can't figure out what the problem is.

I don't think a conf/obv town that has a strong town read on you is a good example of interactions.
wrt your scum read on me - you've asked Nancy about her read on me (that was 20 or so pages ago), she was leaning town. you obviously don't agree with her reasons to townread me, you didn't ever try to talk her into scum reading me or ask her to be more specific what's so town about me. you only asked for information but did nothing with them. beside suspending your scumread on me for unknown reason, you did remember to highlight it's only temporary though
I can't really tell you why people your interaction don't go well. I don't think it's really that bad, besides worst nobody really is denying you anything. (and again, i have pushed you to talk things out with worst but you dropped as soon as you were supposed to go into specific so)

I'm trying to make things happen and to inject some adrenaline into what feels (or felt) like a toxic gamestate, I'm engaging players, asking questions, trying to talk about reads, trying to refine reads, but instead I'm getting a lot of hostility and aggression or simply getting ignored.

Eh I didn't really get a feeling you are doing those things.
I'm not sure why you put so much emphasis on hostility/aggression, from my experience (i've played only 4 games so i might have just been unlucky) that happens really often in games. if it makes you feel better i have also experienced worst's uncooperativeness first hand. it super frustrating when you don't know how to go around it.

Re: Nancy - go back and look at how I came to townread Nancy - it was back when she wasn't obt town to anyone.

Re: convincing Nancy you're scum -

I'd never try convincing anyone of something unless I had a pretty high degree of certainty about it - in particular because I like people to form their own views without my influence because that makes it more likely for them to catch things I'm missing plus it makes it more easy for me to read them - towns already struggle enough to avoid confirmation biasing and I hate adding to that unless I'm really sure about what I'm saying

(e.g. with Random).

Re: interactions and hostility - I'm new to this site but I can tell you the town meta here is very weak compared with others in large part because towns don't work together -

if people stopped trying to be the lone hero and instead put some faith in the collective intelligence of town, we'd get a lot more done.

It's good to know you're new - that would explain why you're paranoid about me - the experienced players (particularly Reality) should know better.

100% agree with the bolded and lucky for us, the worst is trying his damndest to knock some sense into town in order for us to actually have a freaking lynch on d2. Lol.

This post further confirms my townread on you. I honestly don’t even begin to understand Reality’s thought processes on you. Serious, how is anyone not seeing this as town?

Btw, random is not scum. I know this because we have been in a hood together since the mascarade ball. He has been nothing but transparent, open, helpful and actively engaged in it, the entire time

[Nancy Drew 39]

It's the same thing with the worst. I try interacting with the worst but he refuses to answer any of my questions or discuss the things I want to discuss with him - how am I supposed to react to that?

Let it go? Town should but won't always works together, you can't force people to play like you'd want them to. No answer is also an answer, thought I don't think that's a good strategy.
I think you have only asked him about the townread and some explanation about you. i have tired to solve the former for you but you abandoned the idea.

I tell him that it's making me paranoid about his alignment and ask him kindly to interact with me so that he can help me townread him and we can work on refining reads - he continues to ignore me. I'm doing my best not to let my paranoia get the best of me but when I'm confronted with a choice between suspecting perpetual lurkers or the guy who posts more than anyone else but doens't seem to actually be saying much plus can't even spend a second to explain one of his reads to me or to engage with me about the game, what am I supposed to do? I scumread that player because I find what he's doing pro-scum in effect.

yeah what you talk about is perhaps antitown. but you can keep lurkers and hm in his poe. like i'm not really sure what do you expect me here to say to you. i see you are trying to talk with other people about him and i think that's the way to go.

I didn't abandon the idea of speaking with the worst - I made a post directed at him about you based on what you said and he didn't reply. You think I need to be more specific? I want to know why he townread you back in the earlier part of the game when I scumread you - and I want to know what he thinks of your play since then. I can't get more specific than that. He's the one who townread you...

In terms of his play, the problem is that I've seen scum do what he's doing a lot - they throw out a townread on someone who is actually town without thinking about why the player is town, then when they get questioned about it they have no clue how to respond so they ignore the question hoping it goes away without ever having to answer.

Look at the worst Creature progression. He started out defending Creature and trying to get votes off of him. As Creature revealed to be less and less likely to be town, the worst shifted and seriously began to question his initial read. It is beyond obvious that the worst has been really struggling with Creature’s alignment and even as recently as yesterday - after strongly pushing his wagon - the worst was practically begging Creature to throw him some bone of towniness which he wouldn’t be oblige. If this isn’t the most villagery-based push in the history of Mafia, I don’t know what is.

Really good tell - No matter how strongly villas push on players unless they are horribad town, they are almost always open to reconsiderng ther reads - both scum and town - based on new information and the current gamestate. This is why Angel’s post is so suspect. Their hard defending Creature at this point in the game egregiously contradicts the Creature whisperer’s logical, well-reasoned push on him. The just sheep them - no questions - push on Nico is equally scummy.

[Nancy Drew 39]

tbf

everyone dissed on my brass and kokichi reads when I first replaced in and PoIed them

and then they were both revealed to be scum

I was having a really hard time with reads in that game. I only nailed scum!brass/mollie based on Sugar’s ironically hillarious unwitting misuse of the zombie vote. When I really have my head in a game - like I do here, I almost always have good reads.

[Nancy Drew 39]

also regardless of alignment you ask some pretty weird questions and get really fussy about them. I'm gonna keep scumreading you for that

Most of the questions I ask have a pretty clear purpose - sometimes they don't, and in those cases it's usually a reaction test to see if a player ignores it, because I think town tend to ignore silly questions more than scum - but when the questions are meaningful, I expect answers.

I think most of the players in this game underestimate my town game because they haven't played with me before - my questions might not make sense to you because a lot of the time they're designed to create challenges for scum.

I can vouch for this. I was initially scumreading you until our early interaction cleared that up for me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

how do you read me Shosh?

I'll reconsider you after Creature flips.

Why'd you read Sajj as town earlier in the game when I asked you about it, and why'd you make such a big deal about not explaining the townread?

You don’t need Creature flip to sort the worst. His entire Creature progression is the very epitome of villageryness. He is also the main player trying desperately to make sure town doesn’t have a no lynch two days in a row. Seriously, there is absolutely no basis for not locktown reading the worst at this point, irrespective of the flip.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry, I don’t see this at all. What I see is a sincere villagery process leading to SOSME misguided conclusions. All this wall really convinces me of is how villagery the worst, Sajj are. I think you are reaching. I also fail to see Sho/Creature connection. And while Wheme isn’t currently in my POE, I’m very far from hardtown reading him. You are wrong about both Sho and random. I think the worst was probably right about you possibly being “bad town”, because you sound like you really believe all of the questionable conclusions you’re drawing. I think a) Sho was confused about the underground hood with you/worst/Sajj and drew erroneous conclusions az a result of that. b) While I still think you’re probably town, I don’t think Sho’s reasons for scumreading you are really that off the wall. Why? Simply because it is so damned important to have a maj lynch today, your “no info” anti-Creature push IS and should be highly suspect, solely based on that. The reason I’m townreading you is because I really feel you have actually confibiased and duped yourself and are earnestly and sincerely trying to make the rest of us drink the same koolade that you drank.

this is really feeling like necromancer all over again

except you're

mostly

obvtown instead of blatantly obvtown this time

Are you seriously trying to shade me here? NAGL IMO.

So, by being “mostly” obvtown instead of “blatantly” obvtown is because I’m actively engaged and actually doing something useful in this game? Okay.

Really really disliking this subtle shade.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry, I don’t see this at all. What I see is a sincere villagery process leading to SOSME misguided conclusions. All this wall really convinces me of is how villagery the worst, Sajj are. I think you are reaching. I also fail to see Sho/Creature connection. And while Wheme isn’t currently in my POE, I’m very far from hardtown reading him. You are wrong about both Sho and random. I think the worst was probably right about you possibly being “bad town”, because you sound like you really believe all of the questionable conclusions you’re drawing. I think a) Sho was confused about the underground hood with you/worst/Sajj and drew erroneous conclusions az a result of that. b) While I still think you’re probably town, I don’t think Sho’s reasons for scumreading you are really that off the wall. Why? Simply because it is so damned important to have a maj lynch today, your “no info” anti-Creature push IS and should be highly suspect, solely based on that. The reason I’m townreading you is because I really feel you have actually confibiased and duped yourself and are earnestly and sincerely trying to make the rest of us drink the same koolade that you drank.

this is really feeling like necromancer all over again

except you're

mostly

obvtown instead of blatantly obvtown this time

Are you seriously trying to shade me here? NAGL IMO.

So, by being “mostly” obvtown instead of “blatantly” obvtown is because I’m actively engaged and actually doing something useful in this game? Okay.

Really really disliking this subtle shade.

First post in the entire game that has seriously pinged me about you but maybe I’m reading too much into it? I almost read this as if I will progress from now “mostly” to “probably” town to weak town, etc., the more I push you on your faulty reads and wrongheaded conclusions.

[Nancy Drew 39]

btw I'll come back to this and read properly tomorrow.
Try not to end the day until I do so

I'm totally not stalling the creature lynch, I promise
I think that slot can go.

So you plan to vote for him then?

[Nancy Drew 39]

like, nancy

I feel like I understand what you're trying to say every time you talk to me

but it feels like you're understanding a completely different version of what I'm saying than what I'm actually saying

and it makes things really confusing

I’d view this quite differently if you hadn’t just thrown unwarrented subtle shade on me. So which is your accrate perspective? What you’re saying in this post or the one where you demoted me from obvtown to mostly tiwn? These two posts seem to contradict each other.

[Nancy Drew 39]

When I really have my head in a game - like I do here, I almost always have good reads.

do you have the "nobody ever understands my correct cases" thing too

Well in that team hydra thing I mentioned, I pretty much had the game solved based on VCA (let alone accurate gut reads) alone but my teammate shot down my valid reads and wound up getting our slot mislynched (my first ever in 14 games!) and costing us the game. I am never allowing anyone to shoot down my valid reads ever again. Had I trusted my own instincts instead of allowing him to wrongly influence me, I could have won the game for town. I’m not bitter about that at all.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I believe I owe some answers

remaining two scum are in there

Shoshin + ArcAngel9 + two of {RandomMidget/Princess of Renais/Creature}

Is this still the current reads?

Because without delving in so much, I disagree with AA9 scum (and Princess scum, obviously).

My AA9 townread btw is 98% strength.

I simply don't believe that scum AA9 won't make the plays like she did here.

Based on what exactly? You keep saying there’s no way they could be scum but haven’t yet given one valid reason for this. No one is just going to take your word on this. You need to provide reasons like I did, for example on why the worst is obvtown.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anything not me-related?

Yeah. Look at the other wagons.

Also, I don't think anyone's brought up the

TBG

NK much, thoughts there?

He was most strongly pushing Rennais/TPF in that post Reality quoted, to a lesser extent Creature. It’s one of the strongest reasons I have for wanting to lynch TPF. Ironically, I’m townreading Shoshin for the exact opposite reason I’m scumreading TPF. Sho has sincere tone and TPF is fake, antagonistic and calculated. Based on gut alone, no one in this game has pinged me even close to that hard. Almost every post of hers has caused my scumradar to fly off of the charts. She is still my #1 most confident scumread in this game. But we need a maj vote to have a lynch and Angel’s extremely suspicious post combined with the Creature whisperer’s compelling case, have made it clear that this is the correct d2 wagon to be on.

[Nancy Drew 39]

btw I'll come back to this and read properly tomorrow.
Try not to end the day until I do so

I'm totally not stalling the creature lynch, I promise
I think that slot can go.

So you plan to vote for him then?

I don’t believe you’ve answered this yet.

[Nancy Drew 39]

[line][/line]

rn ppls picks for scum are creature, shoshin, tpf, me. aa9 and RC.
thoughts on those slots?

Creature:

Playing very strongly to what I know to be scum of him. The fact that he hasn't even tried to gamesolve or interact with the suspicion on him consistently throughout this game makes me very strongly to believe this is scum.

Shoshin:

They're posting a lot of content that I don't believe would be fabricated, but I'm going to read them more in depth and engage before I make a solid assessment. Walls take me a bit to process X3

TpF:

I threw up in my mouth looking at their ISO.

Aa9:

Don't quite see the argument here? I probably skimmed over it, I haven't seen them post in a few pages, so I'll into that.

Reality:

Generally a bit difficult to follow. Some of their posts leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Also, what are your picks for people who are scum and town given the gamestate?

I also feel weird that

TBG

was the one of the longest-standing voters of

Renais

-slot D1 and he was NKed. So I think it's very likely that scum NKed him off the basis of an accurate read.

sucks that he probably replaced into a scum slot but I'm still glad he's here

Eghh....? What's the purpose of this post? Do you have any impression on

GIF

himself?

rn ppls picks for scum are creature, shoshin, tpf, me. aa9 and RC.
thoughts on those slots?

I think TPF, Creature and Angel are scum. Possibly Rennais as the fourth? There were some weird interactions between them. Rennais said that “Angel is town like me”, I believe. It will be interesting to see if GIF sheeps them on Nico vote. Rennais also had Creature crossed out on her readslist.

agree with this. i would throw shoshin and wheme in the pool as well.

Why Wheme? - my main issue with him has been his weird pushes on Joral but he voted Creature and I liked his read on Nico. Obviously based on wagonomics, I can’t write him off either. We obviously have to agree to disagree on Shoshin. I don’t see how scum!Shoshin hardtown reads Nico. I can’t see Sho being w/w with Angel, soley based on that.

I never found why

Wheme's

push on

Joral

was off, I got the idea that he was pushing very strongly for a read he wasn't sure of, which I don't think comes from scum often - and in my experience with

Wheme

.

R.E. the case.
i will consider the case to be a milkstool. it has three legs. my read on creature, psych eval, and peripheral reads.
to begin with the main point. i know how shit creature is as playing as scum. why do i go to these lengths to avoid his lynch? as RC said, people are more likely to try and get credit off of a creature lynch than bother defending him. this point just doesn't work as an indicator of me.
on another note, i reacted the exact same way to nico's play in spring fever where they were scum and shouted me down over me pushing them for inactivity. nico is prolly town but i was not going to let them get away with lurking to victory again.
thirdly, at EoD yesterday i had a scumread n tpf and ambivalence towards creature. i thought a tpf wagon had more support than it did. calling me out for not voting someone i wasnt scumreading is kinda ridiculous.
also my flip on renais was bc someone cased them and i agreed with the case.
first my continuation of my nico scumread despite contrary evidence was scummy
now me changing my mind when alternate info was presented in scummy.
shoshin is trying to find anything they can to paint me as scum regardless of its accuracy or cognitive dissonance. more later.

If you're defending

Creature

because nobody else is, then can you give me a valid case to why he's town here?

i'm not sure if Taly is aware we share a pt

wait, wtf? ...going to check if i got any notifications?

IM SO LOSTTT

AT LEAST IM CONF TOWN

:/ I sympathize with this a lot

that's kinda how I feel with Shoshin she's scummy and anti town as shit and it's got me to the point of like....... is this rly scum? WIFOM

How do yuo feel about their case on

Random-Creature

?

TGPKAP is the most likely town of the four

Random isn’t defending Creature but Angel has and I sincerely hope Reality won’t stall it do to some misplaced nonsense about Creature being a “no info” lynch. I agree, no way in hell is what Reality is saying about TPF making a lick of sense.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I am okay with lynch too. Creature is most certainly not scum.

wait how lol

What did I say there? I dont town read him. I think it was a typo.

He is probably scum!!

ASK ME QUESTIONS OR PRAY THE PRICE.

So, if your post has been misconstrued, then you should have no problem voting for Creature then?

But why push Nico, isn’t it beyond obvious yet that her hard investigative claim is believable? If I have misconstrued your Creature read, I apologize, however it still doesn’t explain bad Nico push.

[Nancy Drew 39]

TBG post has convinced me that one or both TPF/GIF has to be scum and the there’s no way on hell it isn’t TPF, so irrespective of Creature flip, I want that slot dead d3.

[Nancy Drew 39]

btw I'll come back to this and read properly tomorrow.
Try not to end the day until I do so

I'm totally not stalling the creature lynch, I promise
I think that slot can go.

So you plan to vote for him then?

I don’t believe you’ve answered this yet.

@GuyInFreezer, why haven’t you answered this yet?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I am okay with lynch too. Creature is most certainly not scum.

wait how lol

What did I say there? I dont town read him. I think it was a typo.

He is probably scum!!

ASK ME QUESTIONS OR PRAY THE PRICE.

So, if your post has been misconstrued, then you should have no problem voting for Creature then?

But why push Nico, isn’t it beyond obvious yet that her hard investigative claim is believable? If I have misconstrued your Creature read, I apologize, however it still doesn’t explain bad Nico push.

Are you planning to vote Creature or not?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@GuyInFreezer, why haven’t you answered this yet?

I managed to miss both questions.

Is he at L-1?

I don’t know, you should ask @RadiantCowbells .

However, that doesn’t really answer my question. Why does this influence your vote?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why does this influence your vote?

It actually doesn't.

Please just answer the question. Are you planning to vote for Creature or not?

[Nancy Drew 39]

ANSWER THE QUESTION OR I'LL BITE YOUR LEG OFF