Mini 2014: Succinct Mafia (Over)

[MathBlade]

actually right now I'm at {fitz, Kokichi, fuzzy}

This is a cop-out reads list made of easily to scumreads slots

Tell me more what you think about pine

I replaced in to become better at town and not hyperposting.

Initial thought is Wisdom is scum and those slots are town except one OR momrangal is scum afraid of Wisdom. Leaning former

VOTE: Wisdom

Will read rest of game Monday

[MathBlade]

actually right now I'm at {fitz, Kokichi, fuzzy}

This is a cop-out reads list made of easily to scumreads slots

Tell me more what you think about pine

I replaced in to become better at town and not hyperposting.

Initial thought is Wisdom is scum and those slots are town except one OR momrangal is scum afraid of Wisdom. Leaning former

VOTE: Wisdom

Will read rest of game Monday

Because in my experience fitz Kokichi and fuzzy are easy to scumread. Fitz being scum or not solves itself. Kokichi and Momrangal doesn’t really make sense. Fuzzy is more if he lives to lylo without spectacular play is lynched. It’s more a lackadaisical view from Wisdom and I don’t see him trying to sort the hard to sorts. Rule of three says at least one is scum.

That being said if Wisdom is town then usually his reads have some right in them and then Momrangal is pushing because a buddy is in that.

[MathBlade]

Tommorow i should be able to post better posts...away from my main computer atm.

if we get to two weeks and we are getting nowhere than i prob will vote for a day limit. i dont want the game to meander and people loose interest.

Sorry for not posting more...still trying to figure things out.

Thinking Wisdom + Fuzzy + 1 other. Pine is clearly town.

[MathBlade]

Last is either LuckyOtter or Hiraki I think

Dunn and Kokichi and AA9 obvTown.

[MathBlade]

A) Not trying to force a dichotomy that’s how I saw Momrangal’s post. They speak for themselves
B) I have been scum with you and know how you operate as scum and feel that vibe
C) SirCakez Momrangal E. Army.

You’re saying things and not backing them up.

<< Going to bed it is midnight here. >>

[MathBlade]

Math, what makes Pine and ArcAngel clearly town?

Also interested in your reads on momrangal and eevee.

--

SirCakez, does anything from Fuzzy feel genuine to you? It doesn't to me. If you have meta or something that can help me understand by all means share.

ArcAngel because as area-ist as this may sound I have worked with a lot of people from India/Southeast Asia and it’s a lot easier for me to tell when they are lying.

Pine is just because Pine. Like I feel it.

In regards to Hiraki reads yes. Mainly because of when we played scum together. You’re pretty much scum til i hard townread you.

My momrangal read I already said is a conditional one. It’s how I work.
Evee is in the null pile. Don’t know what to make of them yet.

[MathBlade]

Sorry...kinda got distracted by things in RL, Will try to do better

Otter- can you tell me what about my post seems fake, ungeuine .

will post more later

Oh and Hi Math......

VOTE: FuzzyLogic

Definitely more sure of this than Wisdom. Exactly the same crap. Like this is his scum meta.

[MathBlade]

actually right now I'm at {fitz, Kokichi, fuzzy}

This is a cop-out reads list made of easily to scumreads slots

Tell me more what you think about pine

I replaced in to become better at town and not hyperposting.

Initial thought is Wisdom is scum and those slots are town except one OR momrangal is scum afraid of Wisdom. Leaning former

VOTE: Wisdom

Will read rest of game Monday

The reason being is that if you’re scum pushing Wisdom then it’s clearly not for his reads. They are atrocious.

Wisdom does however have a reputation for pulling out scum and it was odd that you attacked him for who he scumread and not why. His reasoning is bad or not existent yet you push him for who. That’s what I generally see in fear or BoP pushes not genuine ones.

<<<

INFRACTION

: Fifth post on a page in under 24 hours; user has been warned. >>>

[MathBlade]

Then why are you still voting Wisdom?

Good question! Anyone else has comments on this?

Maybe I should repost this.

So would people vote in deadline or no?

Momrangel, what does post 93 mean?

VOTE: Wisdom

Mmmm...

That's probably a bad vote but what do I know?

Then why are you still voting Wisdom?

Quote in question

A bad vote doesn’t necessarily mean that it is a vote on town. It could be scum bad voting their buddy. I don’t think Dunnstral is scum but the whole “why don’t you unvote my buddy irks me”

Think it’s wisdom Fuzzy Otter

The wisdom of a fuzzy otter. I has given name to the prob scum team yo.

[MathBlade]

SirCakez why a townlean on Momrangal?
--
Math, how do you figure me+Fuzzy makes sense?
--
I've honestly been avoiding a read of Fitz and Wisdom because I haven’t been able to make sense of their interaction. So I sat down to slog through it and here's what I see:

Fitz starts off with some reads/questions in post 90:
1. Vote on Momrangal based on RVS vote (later says it's gut)
2. Sus on Eevee based on choosing Fitz as possible target when other options are available
3. Sus on Wisdom for his Koki vote, asking what it was for if not for fluffing

Wisdom calls out some valid concerns. Some of Fitz's original reasoning is irrelevant (e.g. the fact that eevee chose the person who posted the least). However, not all of it is. In 131, Fitz makes an effort to explain his suspicions better, and does OK explaining his mom and eevee reads. I really didn’t like his initial mom vote, but his justification here is fine. The eevee read is similar to what I’ve been saying.

His Wisdom read doesn’t actually totally make sense to me. He says he SRs Wisdom because of Wisdom voting Koki for fluff posts, which Wisdom thinks is NAI. But Wisdom never said that as far as I can tell. (If I’m missing it, please point it out to me!) Wisdom only said that Koki felt like a better vote. Fitz ought to understand this if he is defending his initial gut vote on mom.

Wisdom, from this point, seems to focus mostly on the part that concerns him and what he perceives as suspicion based solely on lack of reasons. There’s some selective quoting concerning eevee (134). Fitz responds, and Wisdom just kind of shuts down (150). That’s the part that bothers me the most out of all this.

Fitz is either misinterpreting or misrepresenting Wisdom’s Koki vote. I’m leaning toward the former.
Wisdom isn’t making the effort to hear Fitz out, which could be because Fitz is not always totally clear in his explanation, because of frustration of being misrepresented, or because he’s scum and a Fitz mislynch is more likely if things are left unclear. It’s the post 150 that makes me feel inclined to think the latter, but I need to reread Wisdom in isolation, which will have to happen later.

What kind of question is that?

Literally anyone can be scum with Fuzzy and Fuzzy is doing fuck all.

I could literally make a case for anyone scum with fuzzy.

Watch: Player defends Fuzzy doesn’t want fuzzy lynched. Player attacks Fuzzy they are bussing a useless slot. Player does nothing in regards to Fuzzy they want him to have a chance to get in town’s good graces.

The point is whether a player’s ISO is scummy when dealing with a lurker and you’re hedging of bets as well as how some of your posts are written ping me. If I had two vigs I would shoot you both right now.

[MathBlade]

I'm starting to think pines scum mostly because of how much hes hammering in that wisdom is his townread

No. Bad.

The game I just watched Pine’s scum meta is otherwise.

Bad read fix it.

[MathBlade]

Hello bullshit thy name is Wisdom.

Anyone who knows my scum game knows during it I don’t lie. I tell the truth in a way people want me to be town. So saying that I am bullshitting is just wrong. I will accept your help bussing Fuzzy though. Thank you.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade whats pines scummeta than?

Go look at Alisae’s recently completed game.

That would explain it better than I ever could.

In the words of a Supreme Justice bastardized “I cant describe Pine’s scum play, but I know it when I see it.” And this ain’t it.

And I don’t get the Evee read either Kokichi?

Shall we block? <3

[MathBlade]

Math, what makes Pine and ArcAngel clearly town?

Also interested in your reads on momrangal and eevee.

--

SirCakez, does anything from Fuzzy feel genuine to you? It doesn't to me. If you have meta or something that can help me understand by all means share.

ArcAngel because as area-ist as this may sound I have worked with a lot of people from India/Southeast Asia and it’s a lot easier for me to tell when they are lying.

This is an interesting meta-type kind of read you got on me? Are you bribing me for an easy town read math? So how do South Asians sound when they lie?

I haven't been feeling townWisdom here too hard either.

Why not?

--
I feel like I'm stalled waiting for Fuzzy to do something, which isn't helping the game. So to try to keep things moving:

ArcAngel, do you have a read on Fitz?
--
Pedit: Momrangal, I was just about to ask you about this again. I don't understand your reaction to my question in 177. Do you have a read on Dunn?

Why are you exclusively asking me about Fitz? *Raising my eye on you*
Well but i do want to explain here though.. So here you go!

I played with Fitz in a game where he was a town and later turned into scum. He is an extremely competitive player. Unlike me, he is not very transparent. He usually has good logic in his post regardless of his alignment. What concerns me about him that i didn't feel him as persuasive he gets when he is town but this little too early to judge him on this. I got a future-leaning scum read on him.

I feel like this is not the ruleset for Hiraki and Wisdom. They keep coming up against their quota.

They can both be Town for now though. Wis stronger I think. Otter might be Town. Brie's replace-out feels Town, but is probably NAI. Dunn is lurking, which I don't think is good for him. Fuzzy is still hoping we'll get bored with his wagon and move on. I'm not letting up.

If pine is scum. We have lost this game. Don't fail me pine. Don't be scum.

VOTE: fuzzy

You're so hot that i just want to sheep you!!

But lets lynch Hiraki today, He is scum!!

In general I find that when most of them lied, they end up being really polite about it and then trying to still be in the good graces afterward or they'd ask if it was "good enough". And if they were serious about something then they were a lot more forward. Again it's a stereotype and probably shouldn't be used here as people are more than a stereotype but it hasn't failed me yet. I had one contractor who pretty much pretended to be clueless so I had a coworker of mine teach me a few things in Hindi and he was shocked when I said something back to him and got all apologetic. It was fun. I don't know enough hindi to understand anything but enough to get tone etc.

@Pine I'd worry if you DIDN'T suspect me. Anyone townreading me instantly is either scum or a god of town play because I know the amount of people who can accurately read me in a few posts and none of whom are in this game.

@Sircakez Same potato bullshit at start. Same either lack of catchup/understanding while not contributing as here as a matter of conscience I can't allow this same pattern to exist.

[MathBlade]

Pedit: Momrangal, I was just about to ask you about this again. I don't understand your reaction to my question in 177. Do you have a read on Dunn?

It means what I said. You brought up a good point, made a good observation and it shows that you are thinking critically.

An observation no one else seemed to really think anything about. Even after I reposted, only one other person had made a comment on it.

Up until this point however, wisdom is featured in many people scum reads and in a few of those people I could also be scum (math,fitz) depending on how things go. I'm pretty disappointed in the lack of reactions to it, but honestly the lack of them also got my brain churning

This bit is actually pretty informative and changes some of my reads. So here's the sequence of events:

- momrangal votes Wisdom early on
- Dunn votes Wisdom (95)
- momrangal says "that's probably a bad vote" (98) and meanwhile doesn't change hers
- I ask her why she doesn't change her vote
- She says this is a good question (which read to me as possibly sarcastic) and asks others to comment (177), and reposts this when it doesn't get any reactions (223)
- Math is the only one to pick up on it and uses it as a chance to paint me as trying to protect Wisdom (235)
- Momrangal says she meant it that it was a good question and that she was fishing for reactions.

First, I'm buying momrangal's claim. I can't see scum highlighting their own inconsistency in this way, just to bait someone (and to what end?). Seems like a high risk/low reward strategy.
So then the question is, what to make of the lack of reactions? I would think if momrangal were on scum's lynch agenda, they'd have pounced on this. Why not take the opportunity to at least throw some suspicion her way? The only answer that comes to mind is if doing so would be a detriment to their actual lynch agenda, and this would be the case if their agenda included Wisdom. If you're trying to get Wisdom mislynched, it makes no sense to draw any attention to bad votes on him.

So who has Wisdom on their agenda: Fitz, Math, Kokichi, and Hiraki.

Now, Math did draw attention to 223, but does so in a way that still paints Wisdom as scum, and as I said, paints me as protecting him so adds to his story.

I'm having a hard time reading Math, though. I'm still getting hard scum vibes from Fuzzy, and I don't care what Math says, I don't think scum are going to bus their partner so hard on D1 when it's not really warranted. It's not like Fuzzy is the obvious lynch today (his wagon has consistently met resistance), so hard bussing your scumpartner seems like a bad move in terms of cost/benefit ratio.

Fitz was actually voting momrangal (still for a bad initial reason, imo), while never pointing out her inconsistency wrt voting Wisdom. Maybe Fitz sees momrangal as a liability to being able to push Wisdom later. Seeing that the momrangal vote is highly criticized, he moves to the eevee wagon. Why not Fuzzy? How could you possibly still be forming an opinion on Fuzzy when he's done literally nothing this game?

I don't have good reads on Hiraki or Kokichi, so I need to take the time to do this (will have to do later tonight).

I think there is scum within {Fuzzy, Fitz, Math, Kokichi, Hiraki}.

Fuzzy whatcha thinkin about?

Yay.

This is scum word vomit.

It’s a lot of words to say nothing at all.

You think there is scum in a subset. I think there is scum in the whole player list except me. Is that list exclusionary?

[MathBlade]

@mod: A shiny VoteCount please

Kokichi is town
Momrangal is town
That is not chaining lynches. It’s an arbitrary meaningless pool.

Y’all write a lot of words that say nothing at all.

Evee wagon is still shit. Fuzzy or Lucky is where the scums be at.

[MathBlade]

@Math

It's process of elimination and finding a lynch pool. Not at all arbitrary if you actually read my post and made an effort to understand it.

If you think I'm wrong, help me understand instead of being dismissive. Your reaction reads scummy.

I understand the process. However the statement itself IS the problem.

You said you think there is scum in

• .
  
  However unless that list is exclusionary, meaning you townread everyone else that is not the case.
  
  The questions and other things on top only solidify that Otter isn’t actually scumhunting. Otter posts a lot of words yes but one post has no impact on the next. If the lynch pool was actually true he wouldn’t have Hiraki in his scum pool and townread him for a post before he got added to the lynch pool. The mental gymnastics is insane.
  
  
  Dayvig Otter and Fuzzy
  
  
  Gotta go. Look forward to your flips.

[MathBlade]

I'm not saying Town doesn't ask loaded questions, but damn. Otter!scum probably means Eevee!town and Fuzzy!scum

PE: Oh. Hmm. I'll have to think about it

Ftfu (fixed that for you)

Otter was pushing fuzzy because no one wants to lynch lurkers/antitown d1. That was most assuredly a bad scum bus.

[MathBlade]

not seeing why you dont like that pine post, i agree with both lines

my scumreads are in nullscum rather than scum because I dont have enough experience with those 3 players to be as confident as I'd like
so although I see scummy things I then go "and what if it's just craptown?"

It's not really what he said, but it continues his pattern of vomiting mostly useless stuff into the thread and not real content.

Not seeing Hiraki scumreads in general. Is it for the Wisdom push or what?

well mine is for 266
hiraki feels like he's more interested in shading me rather than sorting me
he acts like hes never played with me and attacks me with crap generic arguments like "wow cant you just sort people by what they're posting?" as if i havent explained i sort people by interacting with them
it just feels like hes ignoring me and just pushing for a mislynch

This is hard to see from my perspective. It would help if Hiraki would talk about other players for a bit.

Math I think you're the only one with Otter scum. Needs more explanation.

Can’t talk much.

Jist is reads obviously fake.
Asking questions to look Townie.
Agreed Fuzzy is scum but then never really pushes anything.

Every goddamn post pings me.

[MathBlade]

umm ( Math) what was the point pf a fake vig. It was was obvious so it would not work as a reaction test

Lucky I did not see a game attached...... just that my scum game ib general is to semi lurk. Can you point to what game he was reference to.

Drunk math say what now?

Reaction tests are valid even if no vigs. Your reaction is shit. It demonstrates the strength of my read, what I would do if I could. You didn’t even click on my hyperlink you’re just trying to call me bad instead of hunt.

If I had 314 votes I would lynch you do hard your scum role PM would cry “moderator moderator Tunnels aren’t supposed to be good from MathBlade”

[MathBlade]

Can’t talk much.

Jist is reads obviously fake.
Asking questions to look Townie.
Agreed Fuzzy is scum but then never really pushes anything.

Every goddamn post pings me.

Looking at their ISO they are not really pushing anything but I don't think that's indicative of scum necessarily. And the reads/questions don't look fake to me.

I don't think Fitz is a good wagon here.

Show me a post where Otter actually uses the answers to the prior questions he asks.

I think he is asking them to look Townie versus be Townie. Like otter wants discussion to go a certain way.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Confusing Otter Posts

No. I'm not a huge fan of the idea of relying on meta unless it reveals something super obvious. But I looked at your previous game together, and I understand why you asked this. Yes I see a similar play style in the game you played together, which resulted in a mislynch, but in other games in which Eevee was town I see a similar posting style (short and sparse posts), but the questioning is at least more pointed. All of this to say that I don't read anything from Eevee's meta that is a huge red flag to me, so I don't feel inclined to let it influence me too much here, and I'm not about to ask Eevee or anyone to defend their meta play style(s).

So does Eevee just get a free pass from you, Wisdom? Do you read him as genuinely trying to interact with others (see posts 115 and 119) to get information?

Time to reevaluate.
I’m still wary of Eevee but his recent posts are better and this wagon isn’t going anywhere. Also, there are others who are contributing minimally. Actually, Fuzzy hasn’t contributed anything of substance. Most recently:

Tommorow i should be able to post better posts...away from my main computer atm.

if we get to two weeks and we are getting nowhere than i prob will vote for a day limit. i dont want the game to meander and people loose interest.

Sorry for not posting more...still trying to figure things out.

This feels off. There are two different excuses—away from the computer/trying to figure things out. Which is it? Why say both?
--
Pine, why do you think Wis is town?
--

So would people vote in deadline or no?

Momrangel, what does post 93 mean?

VOTE: Wisdom

Mmmm...

That's probably a bad vote but what do I know?

Then why are you still voting Wisdom?

Also it means fits reads are bad which isn't entirely surprising but what is, is the fact that he is not really even hunting.

What do you mean by this?
--
Current reads: Fuzzy feels scummiest. Leaning scum on momrangal. Fitz, Hiraki, and Dunn leaning town.
VOTE: FuzzyLogic

I haven't been feeling townWisdom here too hard either.

Why not?

--
I feel like I'm stalled waiting for Fuzzy to do something, which isn't helping the game. So to try to keep things moving:

ArcAngel, do you have a read on Fitz?
--
Pedit: Momrangal, I was just about to ask you about this again. I don't understand your reaction to my question in 177. Do you have a read on Dunn?

SirCakez why a townlean on Momrangal?
--
Math, how do you figure me+Fuzzy makes sense?
--
I've honestly been avoiding a read of Fitz and Wisdom because I haven’t been able to make sense of their interaction. So I sat down to slog through it and here's what I see:

Fitz starts off with some reads/questions in post 90:
1. Vote on Momrangal based on RVS vote (later says it's gut)
2. Sus on Eevee based on choosing Fitz as possible target when other options are available
3. Sus on Wisdom for his Koki vote, asking what it was for if not for fluffing

Wisdom calls out some valid concerns. Some of Fitz's original reasoning is irrelevant (e.g. the fact that eevee chose the person who posted the least). However, not all of it is. In 131, Fitz makes an effort to explain his suspicions better, and does OK explaining his mom and eevee reads. I really didn’t like his initial mom vote, but his justification here is fine. The eevee read is similar to what I’ve been saying.

His Wisdom read doesn’t actually totally make sense to me. He says he SRs Wisdom because of Wisdom voting Koki for fluff posts, which Wisdom thinks is NAI. But Wisdom never said that as far as I can tell. (If I’m missing it, please point it out to me!) Wisdom only said that Koki felt like a better vote. Fitz ought to understand this if he is defending his initial gut vote on mom.

Wisdom, from this point, seems to focus mostly on the part that concerns him and what he perceives as suspicion based solely on lack of reasons. There’s some selective quoting concerning eevee (134). Fitz responds, and Wisdom just kind of shuts down (150). That’s the part that bothers me the most out of all this.

Fitz is either misinterpreting or misrepresenting Wisdom’s Koki vote. I’m leaning toward the former.
Wisdom isn’t making the effort to hear Fitz out, which could be because Fitz is not always totally clear in his explanation, because of frustration of being misrepresented, or because he’s scum and a Fitz mislynch is more likely if things are left unclear. It’s the post 150 that makes me feel inclined to think the latter, but I need to reread Wisdom in isolation, which will have to happen later.

Pedit: Momrangal, I was just about to ask you about this again. I don't understand your reaction to my question in 177. Do you have a read on Dunn?

It means what I said. You brought up a good point, made a good observation and it shows that you are thinking critically.

An observation no one else seemed to really think anything about. Even after I reposted, only one other person had made a comment on it.

Up until this point however, wisdom is featured in many people scum reads and in a few of those people I could also be scum (math,fitz) depending on how things go. I'm pretty disappointed in the lack of reactions to it, but honestly the lack of them also got my brain churning

This bit is actually pretty informative and changes some of my reads. So here's the sequence of events:

- momrangal votes Wisdom early on
- Dunn votes Wisdom (95)
- momrangal says "that's probably a bad vote" (98) and meanwhile doesn't change hers
- I ask her why she doesn't change her vote
- She says this is a good question (which read to me as possibly sarcastic) and asks others to comment (177), and reposts this when it doesn't get any reactions (223)
- Math is the only one to pick up on it and uses it as a chance to paint me as trying to protect Wisdom (235)
- Momrangal says she meant it that it was a good question and that she was fishing for reactions.

First, I'm buying momrangal's claim. I can't see scum highlighting their own inconsistency in this way, just to bait someone (and to what end?). Seems like a high risk/low reward strategy.
So then the question is, what to make of the lack of reactions? I would think if momrangal were on scum's lynch agenda, they'd have pounced on this. Why not take the opportunity to at least throw some suspicion her way? The only answer that comes to mind is if doing so would be a detriment to their actual lynch agenda, and this would be the case if their agenda included Wisdom. If you're trying to get Wisdom mislynched, it makes no sense to draw any attention to bad votes on him.

So who has Wisdom on their agenda: Fitz, Math, Kokichi, and Hiraki.

Now, Math did draw attention to 223, but does so in a way that still paints Wisdom as scum, and as I said, paints me as protecting him so adds to his story.

I'm having a hard time reading Math, though. I'm still getting hard scum vibes from Fuzzy, and I don't care what Math says, I don't think scum are going to bus their partner so hard on D1 when it's not really warranted. It's not like Fuzzy is the obvious lynch today (his wagon has consistently met resistance), so hard bussing your scumpartner seems like a bad move in terms of cost/benefit ratio.

Fitz was actually voting momrangal (still for a bad initial reason, imo), while never pointing out her inconsistency wrt voting Wisdom. Maybe Fitz sees momrangal as a liability to being able to push Wisdom later. Seeing that the momrangal vote is highly criticized, he moves to the eevee wagon. Why not Fuzzy? How could you possibly still be forming an opinion on Fuzzy when he's done literally nothing this game?

I don't have good reads on Hiraki or Kokichi, so I need to take the time to do this (will have to do later tonight).

I think there is scum within {Fuzzy, Fitz, Math, Kokichi, Hiraki}.

Fuzzy whatcha thinkin about?

Look at how the Wisdom read follows no recognizable pattern
>> Does Eevee get a free pass from you?
>> 170 why do you think Wisdom is town? Second loaded question after Eevie getting a pass. It’s like he’s concluded Wisdom can’t be lynched before sharing the thoughts and wants others to chime in on Wisdom town so he doesn’t have to.
Except he doesn’t have Wisdom anywhere on his reads.

>> 238 been avoiding reads of Fitz and Wisdom because .... then if you don’t know what to make of an interaction you poke it more with a shiny stick
He also talks justification instead of explanation. Seems like Otter knows Wisdom has to justify himself and says a lot of words to reach no conclusion on Wisdom.

>> Then demoralizes the Fuzzy wagon saying resistance exists don’t go there no.

Wisdom Fuzzy Otter.

[MathBlade]

Prove me wrong. Join me on Fuzzy.

Push him til the slot flips into dirt.

Everyone scumreads him but no one is doing a damn thing about it.

Show me you’re town and lynch scum into dirt.

I am gonna BoP your ass.

See you next page peace!

[MathBlade]

Why do you read otter as town simply for attacking Fuzzy?

And I am not a fan of the deadline. I am having RL stuff come up and so could potentially miss something huge. Also we should be able to get majority if we can’t that is symptomatic of a bigger problem.

[MathBlade]

And before anyone complains it was 24 hours since my last post so I should be cool on that.

@Fuzzy why would the whole vote of me / maybe one other person be running you up? (Need to verify but it’s no where near Lynch)

It seems more likely you’re scared of that occurring and trying to see what sticks.

This btw is why Otter is scum. He’s saying things people want to follow but not looking at the facts. The fact is that Fuzzy is not being run up despite my arguments for it and then Otter continues the assumption he is.

[MathBlade]

That’s even worse.

[MathBlade]

That seems dumb.

One scum dead is as good as any other scum dead.

It’s one less scum in the game. Get to 0 we win.

I don’t like this situation at all.

[MathBlade]

you are forcing conclusions and making me suspect you

base your scumreads on counterwagons when you have a flip, not before

Ehhhh, that’s fair.

In fact, I'm guessing one scum each on either CW.

Fitz is a CW, so he's prob Town. Wis is Town this game.

{Fuzzy, Dunn, Mom}?

Unofficial VC

TheFuzzyLogic99 - 4 (LuckyOtter, MathBlade, Pine, Kokichi Oma)
EeveeLution Army - 3 (SirCakez, Dunnstral, havingfitz)
havingfitz - 2 (Momrangal, Wisdom)
Wisdom - 1 (Hiraki)
Hiraki - 1 (ArcAngel9)
Pine - 1 (EeveeLution Army)

Not Voting - 1 (TheFuzzyLogic99)

7 to lynch.

I could vote Fuzzy again but lynching fitz or Hiraki would be more satisfying

Wisdom’s critique is crap. Furthermore he only does it to Pine not AA9.

Scum don’t just not join wagons til EOD they vote whenever they find it necessary to mislynch.

Taking snapshots in time then asking why a person moved on or off is really important.

[MathBlade]

Lucky is bussing, Wisdom is scum off promoting fitz so he looks Townie.

Fuzzy is just skating by hoping no one gives a damn.

@Cakez you think the game is apathetic and needs a flip, join us on Fuzzy.

[MathBlade]

Math...why is fuzzy scum aside from meta?

Fuzzy...why aren't you doing anything? ffs. Who's scum. Who are you inclined to vote?

Because Fuzzy is blatantly not hunting and when he does try to post something it comes out as obvious bullshit.

Wisdom’s critique is crap. Furthermore he only does it to Pine not AA9.

arc has been steadily scumreading hiraki and i agree with her
what would i critique her for?

You argued Pine’s reads/thoughts were bad because of preflip. In 367 (quoted for you) ArcAngel does the same. Why is AA9 getting a pass and not Pine hmmm? Is it because Pine is voting your buddy?

If fuzzy flips or Eeve flips town, there has to be at least one scum in each of their wagons.


TheFuzzyLogic99 - 4 (LuckyOtter, MathBlade, Pine, Kokichi Oma)
EeveeLution Army - 3 (SirCakez, Dunnstral, havingfitz)

you are forcing conclusions and making me suspect you

base your scumreads on counterwagons when you have a flip, not before

[MathBlade]

Wisdom holds EVERYONE to high standards.

I reject your argument and replace it with reality. Pine is town.

[MathBlade]

no its because arc isnt trying to push narratives
pine literally made up three scumreads based on it and proposed its the scumteam

Arc is 100% pushing a narrative there.

One scum on one scum off is a split scum narrative.

Pine is town for following their IMHO flawed conclusions to where they end up.

[MathBlade]

I could say 24 scum on a wagon if Fuzzy flips town. It would be factually false but I am indeed pushing a narrative scum dogpile on a wagon.

That’s literally what preflip is.

Pedit doesn’t matter.

A

narrative

is what you argued is bad, not that Pine used it to determine a scum team.If it’s not the narrative you have a problem with you’re argument with Pine is invalid. If it is the narrative then AA9 deserves the same.

You don’t get to move the goal posts because Pine is voting obvScum and you won’t.

Peace out til next page.

[MathBlade]

Because Fuzzy is blatantly not hunting and when he does try to post something it comes out as obvious bullshit.

He doesn't do this as town?

His potato gambit is different has more words
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=73835&user_select%5B%5D=22365

In protomen blitz Fuzzy voluntarily gives reads. Here he does if pushed.
In protomen blitz Fuzzy doesn’t contradict himself here he does.
In protomen blitz he was very “wait for a flip” “don’t try to outguess the mod”
This game has none of that.
Pretty much if Fuzzy has reads then he’s more likely town. If he doesn’t have reads he’s scum. He’s started peppering them in now but it’s not the same.

[MathBlade]

Come on over. This wagon sorely needs cakez:)

[MathBlade]

Im not voting fuzzy and im starting to suspect otter for shallowness

Not being a team player or even being complete shit at the game doesn't mean fuzzy is scum

Its just sounding like you're pushing a PL now

...I am not pushing policy.

It’s a meta read and a He ain’t town read. You’re shading me instead of my points. A very typical Wisdom scum move.

Wisdom who are your lock town or may the mod kill me as I stand reads?

[MathBlade]

Back to Fitz.

He really didn't do more than insult people this game, and hasn't offered any kind of content, or conversation.

Also, to supposedly be scum reading me, I'm "bad " even though I'm scummy. Not only did he do this to me but to wisdom who is someone else he was scum reading.

And in calling us bad he is talking about our reads. He also never pushed any kind of case on wisdom. He just called him bad which straight up discredits him who has a

history

of accurate reads

Gamblers Fallacy present.

Just because someone is right in a prior game doesn’t make them right here
Just because someone is wrong in a prior game doesn’t make them wrong here.

I have a history of being scum with or in a game with the majority of you.

This does not make me scum.

I know how scum!Wisdom operates I know how fuzzy scum operate.

The only one I could be potentially wrong on is Otter.

[MathBlade]

If I am scumreading a playstyle so be it. The “playstyle” is so useless as to be an additional scum member.

I don’t believe I am as I have presented evidence to the contrary. But the lengths Wisdom goes to defend someone without reads and attack someone with reads is alignment indicative.

Momrangal you can’t on one hand say that Wisdom can hold Pine accountable and not AA9 and not Fuzzy.

Ugh why can’t I be a vig already?

Mastina I want a one shot desperado please

In seriousness

Mastina if deadline is ever on please include a timer in the VC and please do another VC

Something has gotta give.

[MathBlade]

So in other words

I am doing moon logic except the town players follow it. So it must not be that “weird”
I am weird except I am not.
Scum are attacking me versus the reasons.
Scum are saying lynchbait rather than arguing Fuzzy is town because they can’t.
I have Wisdom on BoP so he is looking for a way to bus Otter who is bussing Fuzzy for cred.
He gets pissed when I point out the obvious and Otter is so not policing this but you know that.

Now let’s lynch Fuzzy. Get that sweet red flip and watch me die a glorious death for fucking once.

[MathBlade]

[MathBlade]

I don’t follow. Am I offending you by being Titus’s brother? Am I offending you by thinking Wisdom is good?

What specifically is utter bullshit? I am expecting Wisdom to be right and to convince us on reads. He instead focuses on defending someone whose play is indefensible. I expect better from him.

I am not trying to do anything. My beliefs are clear and I am campaigning for them. Just as I would expect anyone to do.

I am not shutting anyone out or something.

Fitz is more a tryhard as scum. He isn’t and is still trying so fitz is town. I counter claimed him day 1 in a game town curb stomped on.

I don’t know what is taxing so I can fix it?

[MathBlade]

Deal. I don't town read him either

VOTE: HavingFitz

Ewwww stop listening to scum.

V/LA til Tuesday with word of warning it will likely be high as a kite

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?p=9949534#p9949534

It actually isn’t.

He takes an opinion on the joke? From Hopkins user.

He also remains consistent in the opinions Fuzzy shares.

Here Fuzzy has no opinions and is inconsistent.

[MathBlade]

1) First I am sorry if it feels like I am not listening. This is not my intent. I can’t speak for Titus, but as for myself, it’s pretty much in my background and a bit of survivalistic to be stubborn. The way I learned how to “prove” something is you make a hypothesis:
My hypothesis right now is that in order of likelihood Fuzzy Wisdom and Otter are scum.

2) Then from making that hypothesis you bring points supporting that hypothesis.
In this case, Fuzzy’s meta, contradictions, and lack of hunting lead me to believe he is scum.
For Wisdom’s case, he does not seem to apply standards to all players equally and is seemingly let bad play go which is not standard for Town!Wisdom and based on my experience with Wisdom that is what he does as scum.

3) Anyone who wishes to change my read must counter the given points, either mechanically or address those points. Or they have to bring MORE points that make him town. An equal number of points would make him null.

Let’s take a look at what you have said regarding Wisdom. You have more experience.
Assuming this as true, then please show me where Wisdom allows bad play from town and that player is town.
Show me where Wisdom has this similar play as town.
Experience ALONE isn’t enough. It’s like 5 years doing coding versus 20. At some point both know what a variable is and then you get down into the nuts and bolts. I am not discounting your experience. I want you to talk about it.

The associatives between Wisdom and Fuzzy — What associatives do you refer to? What it looks like to me is the associatives paint them together as scum. Please go into detail.

[MathBlade]

That is how the real world works.

If I bring a solution to my colleagues to a coding problem:
They either A> Agree that it is good
Or B> Demonstrate the flaws in it.

That’s how the world works.

For example if someone said I am scum because

I know I am not based on my role PM but that isn’t evidence that everyone can see. Then I have to dismantle the points made that I am scum, or the prevailing idea should be that I am scum if I cannot.

It’s the same way in the scientific community. If you have a theory that the earth is flat. You have to counter all the evidence that the earth is 3 dimensional (namely the fact we have day and night, boats and airplanes travel at a curvature, photos from space to name a few) if you don’t discount those things and say “I have had more experience than you on this earth listen to me” the experience itself is fundamentally irrelevant. It is what the experience brings to the table that matters.

[MathBlade]

no because mara doesnt have to convince you youre wrong
You are bad and youll find something else to be loudly wrong about

Then we keep playing whack a mole.

When theory A is proven wrong go to theory B when theory B is wrong C etc.

I don’t abandon what is most likely simply because someone else says so.

[MathBlade]

Tired rn but regarding fuzzy/wisdom associations

Why in the world would wisdom commit to 's bus then not follow through when the bus gains traction. Not only does he not follow through but he goes from bussing to wking and even chainsawing. He knows that will reflect on him badly if fuzzy flips red and that isn't his MO

Tired myself too

Because he is bussing badly.
He did it in Railgun Mafia.

I have done it in more games than I can count.
A bad bus looks like good towncred.

[MathBlade]

Strong scumread - Hiraki.. Scum lean Fitz

Town read Wisodm and Pine

Rest, I am still figuring it out.

Losing my townread on AA9
No time to explain
Gotta go

Lynch fuzzy

[MathBlade]

I am out of surgery and in recovery so not posting today or reading.

So I am alive.

[MathBlade]

Putting the game on pause for a second
MB.... I am so glad you are out of surgery and everything went well. I hope you have a speedy recovery.... Wishing you well man


Back to the game now......

Thank you I think you’re still scum but this is nice.

[MathBlade]

Btw I find that otter is probably town

Still scumreading wisdom and Fuzzy.

[MathBlade]

Why did you vote Fitz Fuzzy?

[MathBlade]

That is L-1 people. I don’t believe Fitz is scum.

[MathBlade]

@mastina: Can I have a VoteCount and a VoteCount every 24 hours all of them with deadline timers?

@kokichi who is scum to you besides fuzzy?

[MathBlade]

vote Fuzzy

im the town cop but whatever, town is bound and determine to lynch me....at this point i kinda dont care

This reads fake as fuck.

If Fuzzy was an investigative he’d at least try to play the game and not self vote.

This is ATE garbage designed to try to draw a CC.

[MathBlade]

Can someone please do a VC and rope in stranglers? Fuzzy needs rope today.

Then whoever is an investigative please check Wisdom for how bad his defense is Fuzzy was.

[MathBlade]

bc you know someone cant be tired and frustrated at all

Honestly town kind of deserve to lose at this point......I claim cop and noone bats an eye to pull off my wagon just in case I am really the cop/ There is no way that there is not atleast one scum on my wagon. If I do get lynched yall need to lynch off my wagon. Have a feeling that wont happen ( assuming I am lynch which as I said seems likley.)

my list to vpte on Tommorow
Math
Otter
Pine

I dont think Dunn is scum but thats a gut feeling. I have mix feelings on Otter and he could go either way

That’s not how wagons die.

Wagons die if you’re town and give a shit.

The fact you said no one backed off in case you were the cop means you’re not and tried to lure out the investigative. Everything from that fake cop claim is wifom.

Please Lynch Fuzzy while at my dr appt

[MathBlade]

bc you know someone cant be tired and frustrated at all

Honestly town kind of deserve to lose at this point......I claim cop and noone bats an eye to pull off my wagon just

in case I am really the cop/

There is no way that there is not atleast one scum on my wagon. If I do get lynched yall need to lynch off my wagon. Have a feeling that wont happen ( assuming I am lynch which as I said seems likley.)

my list to vpte on Tommorow
Math
Otter
Pine

I dont think Dunn is scum but thats a gut feeling. I have mix feelings on Otter and he could go either way

Bold is a rescinding of the cop claim
And the game is hunting not PRs.

We can absolutely afford losing a PR if we confirm scum.

[MathBlade]

What the fuck is wrong with all of you

We let him live, if hes cop scum kill him, if not hes forced to conftown someone

We absolutely dont lynch a cop claim

Except when they are scum

I have used this exact gambit with a scumbuddy in a prior game.

PR claim isn’t an instant get out of lynch free card.

[MathBlade]

again, even if hes scum theres benefit in letting him live, he has to provide a result tomorrow

While if hes town we'll be lynching our cop

NO NO NO NO NO

THIS IS NOT HOW THIS WORKS.

OTHERWISE EVERY SCUM WILL CLAIM PR.

YOU ANALYZE IT AGAINST THE MERITS.

IF FUZZY IS THE COP WE ARE NEVER GETTING A RESULT EVER. IIOA IS A FUCKING SCUMTELL.

OMFG I wish this game was in the newbie queue so I could actually show WHY THE FUCK YOU DON'T DO THAT.

[MathBlade]

dont they also teach not to stupidly tunnel in that queue? looks like youve skipped a few lessons

Actually I expected a unvote and than a push/pressure to see if I was the cop. I was not wanting or expecting a cc. That is the right move in this situation I was hoping that someone would put pressure on me for my claim in order to see if I was the cop after I stupidly blurted out me role......

@ Math
I am actually pretty insulted........... Really you think I am going to play this bad as scum? I won the ending in three games by outsmarting several people. I am surprise that think I am the same player that outsmarted you in the Ending in three game and yet is likely to be lynched on day 1 ,,,,,,, Thought you would give me a bit more credit.

well town need to decide if they should lynch me or Fritz as we are the two most viable candidate. I dont see a no lynch as being helpful or even a remotely smart move. Whoever gets lynched we should push everyone on that wagon ( assuming Fritz flips town also)

BTW CC my claim would be dumb as anything bc I will flip town cop and than the person who cc would be lynched the next day........

Actually I expected a unvote and than a push/pressure to see if I was the cop. I was not wanting or expecting a cc. That is the right move in this situation I was hoping that someone would put pressure on me for my claim in order to see if I was the cop after I stupidly blurted out me role......

@ Math
I am actually pretty insulted........... Really you think I am going to play this bad as scum? I won the ending in three games by outsmarting several people. I am surprise that think I am the same player that outsmarted you in the Ending in three game and yet is likely to be lynched on day 1 ,,,,,,, Thought you would give me a bit more credit.

well town need to decide if they should lynch me or Fritz as we are the two most viable candidate. I dont see a no lynch as being helpful or even a remotely smart move. Whoever gets lynched we should push everyone on that wagon ( assuming Fritz flips town also)

Wis, HOW are you opposed to lynching this? Fakeclaimed cop to weasel out of the lynch, transparently fishes for a real!cop CC, on and on.

You’re too invested in this “too scummy to be scum” narrative. Occam says this is just actually scum.

I don't think he's actually cop, his claim and post contradicted itself.

just give it a day

1) Newbie queue gives people a chance to learn to get their needs met. My tunneling struggles are because of a quirk of me.

2) Yes Fuzzy I believe you are this bad but I let it slide before or that you are having an off day.

3) The fitz wagon is JUST as bad by your own logic. Fitz could be the cop. I could be the cop. Anyone could be the investigative.

4) A CC would be dumb as the investigative would investigate and hopefully get a second guilty then CC you. The ideal thing is to Lynch your ass.

5) thank you Pine and Kokichi.

6) No. we don’t give scum “a day”.

[MathBlade]

Is there going to be a deadline extension for replacements?

<<< As per 646, no. >>>

[MathBlade]

Is there going to be a deadline extension for replacements?

<<< No takebacks.

Players requested a deadline (which by rules, is one week) be implemented; this received the necessary support to happen. This was the players' choice. Once done, it cannot be undone. Decisions, when reaching the necessary majority (even if players later regret them), are final.

If slots require replacement during night, night will have no deadline until the slots are filled (after which, it'll be 48 hours). >>>

Oooh wait lawyer time! May my sister rub off on me.

If we voted to make the deadline a week...Let’s just vote again to make the deadline a week. The rules don’t say we can’t vote for a deadline while a deadline is running so maybe we can extend it THAT way.

I vote for a deadline of a week

[MathBlade]

Wisdom is scum for the naked vote on his buddy without explanation.

[MathBlade]

Yeah you lynched claimed PR.......I know my play was not stellar but lynching town PR is just terrible......

I hope you are scum Math....as I said it would only be fair play after I pulled one over on you with the Three Mafia game

I am pretty chill. I have a reasonable idea who the investigative is.

its called deadline hammer
but keep thinking im scum

It’s called plurality which if you were actually reading you’d have never hammered.

Good job on lynching the town cop.........Maybe you can manage to lynch the doctor tomorrow......

I dont leave till tomorrow......so I could of put in a investigation. Was going to investigate Wisdom as if wisdom was town than I would have a strong ally to team with ...if not we would get a rid of a dangerous player.
was prob was going to investigate Math night two

Anyways Scum deserve to win atm bc town is playing terrible........

You mean we’re amazing and caught you. Awesome.

Fitz is definitely scum and then theres at least one in the people that tunneled on fuzzy - my bet is luckyotter. And then the last one is prolly hiraki

see you tomorrow

Remember rule of three people.

[MathBlade]

Nope.

It was right to lynch Fuzzy even without the counterclaim as if he was scum it would keep our cop hidden.

As a PR you have to play like you are a PR so your claim is believable.

I have no regrets about that lynch, sure it may have turned out bad but it was the right play.

And I would appreciate you not outing an alt account please and thanks.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Magna

[MathBlade]

More than likely scum stayed off it because they would know the claim was real.

[MathBlade]

More than likely scum stayed off it because they would know the claim was real.

Why vote Magna then? SirCakez was on the Fuzzy wagon.

Will reread and rethink.

Because Magna was off the Fuzzy wagon, being selective af about who he pushes afterward (Kokichi is also experienced as well), Magna seems to clearly have an agenda.

[MathBlade]

End of Day Votecount

TheFuzzylogic99 - 7 (LuckyOtter, MathBlade, SirCakez, Pine, Dunnstral, Kokichi Oma, Wisdom)

havingfitz - 4 (Momrangal, ArcAngel9, Hiraki, TheFuzzylogic99)
EeveeLution Army - 1 (havingfitz)
Pine - 1 (EeveeLution Army)

7 to lynch.

Deadline for D1: (expired on 2018-06-24 22:06:14).

No he wasn’t.

[MathBlade]

Oh derp backwards
VOTE: Unvote

Still find it fishy Magna didn’t push Kokichi for the same thing.

[MathBlade]

Nope.

It was right to lynch Fuzzy even without the counterclaim as if he was scum it would keep our cop hidden.

As a PR you have to play like you are a PR so your claim is believable.

I have no regrets about that lynch, sure it may have turned out bad but it was the right play.

VOTE: Mathblade

There is no way you can be Town and typing the above. None. You are too experienced to post that and believe it.

Day 1 you NEVER lynch an un-countered information claim. Ever. That is the kind of thing you learn in Road to Rome from an IC. In LYLO sure you have to use reason because scum faking a claim to win the game is a viable strategy.

The downside if you are wrong - you lynch a strong Town role before they even get a chance to use their ability or be killed by scum N1. Disaster if you are wrong. Which you clearly were.

The downside if you are right? None. The real Town information role gets a Night to use their ability and then counter potentially netting a two for one on scum or at worst potentially getting you a clear or quasi clear Townie. Worst case the real information role dies overnight and you make scum kill the Town roles.

That is a general rule, not a hard one.
And this game isn’t about PRs it never has been.

Go look at my flipless win rate or F2F where in 10+ years of playing have never missed a vig shot IRL.

I do better when no PRs and if I was wrong it was unlikely he was going to get a check off anyway as the majority of people scumread him.

Again you’re attacking me specifically when Kokichi has had similar no regrets.

VOTE: Magna

Back to this can die. He is looking to tunnel me because I am an easy mislynch versus actually thinking about what he is saying.

<<<

INFRACTION

: Fifth post on a page in under 24 hours; user has been warned. >>>

[MathBlade]

o/

I'm going to skip the part where I spend the first five IRL days promising I'm going to do a full read-through from the beginning of the thread Real Soon Now, and just admit that that's never going to actually happen and that I'm probably going to review Day 1 sporadically at best. If there's something specific you think I ought to see, point me to it.

There is no way you can be Town and typing the above. None. You are too experienced to post that and believe it.

Day 1 you NEVER lynch an un-countered information claim. Ever. That is the kind of thing you learn in Road to Rome from an IC. In LYLO sure you have to use reason because scum faking a claim to win the game is a viable strategy.

The downside if you are wrong - you lynch a strong Town role before they even get a chance to use their ability or be killed by scum N1. Disaster if you are wrong. Which you clearly were.

The downside if you are right? None. The real Town information role gets a Night to use their ability and then counter potentially netting a two for one on scum or at worst potentially getting you a clear or quasi clear Townie. Worst case the real information role dies overnight and you make scum kill the Town roles.

I agree with the sentiment here that lynching an uncountered cop claim, or really any plausible positive-utility PR claim, on day 1 is bad. But (having had no experience with MathBlade specifically) I don't have any trouble believing that MathBlade could say what she said sincerely. I've seen similar statements made by equally experienced players, including one in particular who I understand shares quite a bit of genetic information with MathBlade. Though I find that when town advocates ideas like this they are usually hard-tunneling the PR claimant in question rather than espousing their consistent and principled position on awaiting counterclaims.

Fuzzy isn't cop. We only have 8 hours and need a lynch.

...

VOTE: fuzzy

8 hrs remain this is L1 someone hammer. I can guarantee he isn't cop.

(quote altered to remove vote tag)

Kokichi Oma:

1. Do you generally believe that 8 hours isn't enough time to build up a new wagon?
   
2. What made you so certain Fuzzy wasn't a cop?

I still feel like pine is scum but im unsure on if anyone would go along with it....but tbh the fact mom died makes me less confident in it.

Why?

If you feel like you have a case on Pine, now is the time to share it.

Seconding this. If you think someone is scum then it doesn't matter how unsure you are if you can convince anyone, you have to make your best effort to do so.

How do you have no experience yet are misgendering me as she?
If you have no experience what made you think I am a chick?

[MathBlade]

I'm giving myself a warning since Mastina isn't here. Hey Math...You went over four posts a page. Don't do that again this day phase or you'll lose your vote.

Magna and Umlaut and Kokichi. I'm good with this. Magna wants to run me up as scum.

Umlaut's answer of why Umlaut called me she is wholly unsatisfactory. Reeks of coached by scum.

VOTE: Umlaut

Hey wisdom you're probably town and I was wrong. Sorry about that.

[MathBlade]

@MathBlade

1. What part of my explanation in #700 do you disbelieve? Specifically, which of the labeled statements below do you deny?
   1. I don't have any experience with your manner of play.
      
   2. You and I have never interacted in a game.
      
   3. I was aware of your existence on the site before now.
      
   4. We have technically been in two games together, namely the two I listed.
      
   5. I've been away from the site for nearly a year.
      
   6. When I saw your name I didn't think to check the pronoun field.
      
   7. The above statements taken together constitute a sufficient explanation.
      
   8. I sincerely apologize.
2. Suppose
   arguendo
   that I actually am scum. How does that explain the misgender?

1) It seemed to me like scum coaching from someone who used to call me female and/or it is intentional.

Magna stop being an ass. I am a dude.

It’s Magna Umlaut and Kokichi. Because Magna refuses to push Kokichi for the same exact issue.

He’s going for lowhanging fruit and doesn’t want to push his buddy.

Gonna be afk today and tomorrow. I am an okay mislynch if y’all can’t see I am town.

[MathBlade]

Because Magna refuses to push Kokichi for the same exact issue.

Magna explained his stance on kokichi and this is bs
As is your sudden turn on fitz slot out of nowhere

He has not explained it since yesterday. His points equally apply and he leaves Kokichi alone.

He attacks me for reevaluating and when fuzzy flipped town cop I fucking re-evaluated.

Wisdom you’re not this derpy.

Fix it.

Will be afk most of the day.

[MathBlade]

And if you are that derpy help me “bus” Umlaut.

Then after that help me “bus” Kokichi.

Then we smack down Magna. GG scum.

I have delivered town an impenetrable town block.

So go flail and mislynch me if you like scum.

We are never lynching momrangal never lynching Eeevee and never lynching Pine. Deal.

[MathBlade]

Still think scum is in Magna/Umlaut/Kokichi.

Prod dodge because I started work again today.

[MathBlade]

I can believe that. Anyway, unnecessarily hammering a cop for town cred would be one hell of a deep play.

Oh yeah,
VOTE: Dunnstral

This really is making me question my Wisdom townread.

Sicker than ever atm right now so this is what passes as “content”.

[MathBlade]

Go back to bussing eevee

Eevee is town.

Like honestly. I don’t get caught as scum.

If you’re scumreading me at this point it’s always scum pushing it regardless of my alignment. I know I am town but I just don’t ever get caught as scum always bussed.

So if I ever get mislynched listen to my reads because they are right. Otherwise scum don’t push me.

[MathBlade]

hi people i dont know

please vote math

This is a scum claim

Wagon exists on top suspect votes me instead

All scum are in Umlaut Magna replacement Wisdom and Kokichi replacement

Prod dodge for the holiday

[MathBlade]

Votecount

TheFuzzyLogic99 - 4 (LuckyOtter, MathBlade, Pine, Kokichi Oma)

EeveeLution Army - 4 (SirCakez, Dunnstral, havingfitz, Hiraki)
havingfitz - 2 (Momrangal, Wisdom)
Hiraki - 1 (ArcAngel9)
Pine - 1 (EeveeLution Army)

Not Voting - 1 (TheFuzzyLogic99)

7 to lynch.

Votecount

TheFuzzyLogic99 - 4 (LuckyOtter, MathBlade, Kokichi Oma, SirCakez)

havingfitz - 3 (Momrangal, Wisdom, ArcAngel9)
EeveeLution Army - 2 (havingfitz, Hiraki)
Pine - 2 (EeveeLution Army, Dunnstral)
Dunnstral - 1 (Pine)

Not Voting - 1 (TheFuzzyLogic99)

7 to lynch.
Deadline for D1: (expired on 2018-06-24 22:06:14).

Votecount

TheFuzzyLogic99 - 3 (LuckyOtter, MathBlade, Kokichi Oma)

EeveeLution Army - 3 (SirCakez, havingfitz, Hiraki)
havingfitz - 3 (Momrangal, Wisdom, ArcAngel9)
Pine - 2 (EeveeLution Army, Dunnstral)
Dunnstral - 1 (Pine)

Not Voting - 1 (TheFuzzyLogic99)

7 to lynch.
Deadline for D1: (expired on 2018-06-24 22:06:14).

Cake is voting Fuzzy.

<<< Fixed. >>>

Because VCA

No way that wagon stays the way it is on scum.

Fitz aka You is obvscum based on wagon comp

[MathBlade]

Then help me “bus” Umlaut.

Evee is obvTown and Mad Men joined it to make Umlaut harder. I have work and gtg but we should lynch Umlaut

[MathBlade]

Evee is in the null pile. Don’t know what to make of them yet.

Mathblade whats pines scummeta than?

Go look at Alisae’s recently completed game.

That would explain it better than I ever could.

In the words of a Supreme Justice bastardized “I cant describe Pine’s scum play, but I know it when I see it.” And this ain’t it.

And I don’t get the Evee read either Kokichi?

Shall we block? <3

This continues for awhile for Eevee town. Here are the posts in between:

Kokichi so you're deadset on wisdom?

I'm starting to think pines scum mostly because of how much hes hammering in that wisdom is his townread

Mathblade whats pines scummeta than?

So what changed that got you your read to change from null to town? Because there's nothing here that could even substantiate that.

Bonus! Even AFTER this, Eevee then VOTES Pine

VOTE: Pine i honestly believe this is more than likely scum.

There is NO reason at this point that you should actually be TRing Eevee and not be nullreading. Math is NOT the only player to pull this shit. If you want me to even look at Math, you're going to need Eevee to flip red first. Something I'm already pretty confident in.

Yes there is. It’s in 221/241 Army takes strong stances on things and broke us out of RVS. It’s one of army’s better post sequences. Calling it nothing doesn’t mitigate that fact and I see 0 reasoning from anyone on the army votes

I am going to nap now but me hiraki is terrible.

When I flip town because scum will have to mislynch me or shoot me pretty damn fast because I am obvTowning so hard it’s gonna be impossible for anyone to vote me and keep town cred because I will be showing all green when I end up dead


For now I am gonna take a nap. Let’s give scum a quick double tap.

[MathBlade]

So here I am still at {Umlaut>Math>Hiraki}.

still this

In other news Wisdom still scum claiming by not helping me bus.

When I flip green Umlaut then Wisdom.

I am afk most of today.

[MathBlade]

I'll take a look at your notes later, btw. I like this post. Looks like you're genuinely trying to sort people and not just random busywork. Moving you to my null pile for now.

I don’t.

It looks like “effort” for “effort’s sake”

It’s something I have gotten townread for in the past and tomorrow after work I can set up my vote counter tool and provide all the votes and who voted for what etc as well. However when I do it as town it is “spam”.

This is a blatant scumtactic of “hey he’s posting words so I can townread it.

Similarly Wisdom is still scum for not voting his top scumspect

[MathBlade]

Repost of the redacted vote table from 865 as a static CSV:
https://ian.maxwell.name/misc/mini_2014_d1_votes.csv

CSV means no colors but we all know who's confirmed town.

I think the issue is that because the data resides on a link you could in theory (which I know you wouldn’t because you seem like a stand up person even though you’re scum) modify the data to be something different.

I have a program that can do it and post the data so people know it is unaltered.

@wisdom I am not. You’re just tunneling me. Otherwise you’d have said it before. You’re just looking for an excuse not to vote your top scumread Umlaut.

[MathBlade]

next time dont tunnel on my top scumread using bs and youll have better luck

Says I am his top scumread.

Then in the next post says Umlaut is.

And says what I am saying about Umlaut is bs without addressing it.

I wish I was a fucking dayvig right now. I would fucking shoot you and Umlaut right now Desperado style.

[MathBlade]

@Wisdom

I am wholly unimpressed by Arc's "catch" of Hiraki and also by yours. You don't get to say you've caught someone until they flip red and that's not something I'm expecting to see from him.

----

@MathBlade

I have some questions.

That is L-1 people. I don’t believe Fitz is scum.

Why didn't you believe Fitz was scum and what changed your mind? Was it just my 'slip' or was there more to it than that? Mainly I have pretty firm townreads and you’re my top scum candidate as you and I haven’t played before so saying “she” wouldn’t be a thing unless someone implanted it. People generally default to he or they if they don’t know.

<< I didn’t believe Fitz was scum because of how the wagons were developing. However with Fuzzy flipping the cop, I started to reanalyze my reads.

Umlaut's answer of why Umlaut called me she is wholly unsatisfactory. Reeks of coached by scum.

Could you give a hypothetical example of an answer that would have been satisfactory and not scumread-worthy?

I don’t like coaching likely scum but I hate question dodging even worse when I don’t see the consequence to answering. “uhmmm Math. It was a typo. Not seeing how this is important. What do you think about <topic you believe to be productive>” However you defended against it waaaay too hard and apologized(which I feel is genuine but scummy)

I am pretty chill. I have a reasonable idea who the investigative is.

Who did you think the investigative was? Why?

<< I thought it was Kokichi based on a certain post. Will find it when not phone posting.

Fitz is definitely scum and then theres at least one in the people that tunneled on fuzzy - my bet is luckyotter. And then the last one is prolly hiraki

see you tomorrow

Remember rule of three people.

Conditional on Wisdom's being scum, how would you rank these in order of most- to least-likely scum? I'm guessing I'm at the top but where are the other two?

<<Wisdom after you then Lucky then Hiraki. I just don’t think Hiraki is scum. Otter could be but very unlikely. I’d rather lynch you Wisdom and Kokichi before Otter.

I can believe that. Anyway, unnecessarily hammering a cop for town cred would be one hell of a deep play.

Oh yeah,
VOTE: Dunnstral

This really is making me question my Wisdom townread.

hi people i dont know

please vote math

This is a scum claim

Wagon exists on top suspect votes me instead

In other news Wisdom still scum claiming by not helping me bus.

Similarly Wisdom is still scum for not voting his top scumspect

@wisdom I am not [your top suspect]. You’re just tunneling me. Otherwise you’d have said it before. You’re just looking for an excuse not to vote your top scumread Umlaut.

Do you have any basis for your Wisdom read that isn't predicated on my being scum? Pretend a genie tells you I'm town, what's your read on Wisdom then?

----

If you’re town then I would take into account what caused you to flip town, but I think there’s way too much evidence for you being scum with Wisdom than against.

pedit

I'm confused about what the timestamp link is supposed to be showing me

You don't have to worry about it, it's just there to prove I'm not breaking site rules.

If you want to respond to something I've posted, you could try the questions I asked you.

----

pedit

oh screw it I'll read the next two posts after I submit this.

Quick phone responses inline will try to do more later time permitting.

[MathBlade]

TrinityNZ is trying to fake a townderp tell. She means your doc Umlaut.

And if a genie did, I would ask for it to remove all evil in the world or make me a billionaire to prove its right and then immediately replace out as I would have better than mod confirmed information on your slot. If I was forced to stay I would vote Wisdom. Trinity is getting up in scumreads too.

[MathBlade]

I should be okay because of 24 hour reset rule

@Umlaut because Trinity read enough to see a link yet she didn’t go over to the left to see who did?

If she is reading the posts to obtain reads then surely she would be able to see who wrote it. It’s not like the game is going fast. Trinity hasn’t been reading or displaying any sort of depth at all.

[MathBlade]

I should be okay because of 24 hour reset rule

@Umlaut because Trinity read enough to see a link yet she didn’t go over to the left to see who did?

If she is reading the posts to obtain reads then surely she would be able to see who wrote it. It’s not like the game is going fast. Trinity hasn’t been reading or displaying any sort of depth at all.

Whoops, I can see I did get it wrong about who created the document. The link I clicked was in a post of MathBlade’s, and I didn’t notice that it was actually in a quote of Umlaut’s.

I have been reading, but it’s harder than I thought it would be, coming into the game, especially where there are a lot of pages to read, and there have been a fair few substitutions.

Nothing has swayed me from my initial read on MathBlade. Pine and MafMen could be partners. Umlaut, Hiraki, Dunstaal read town to me.

So you’re actually not reading then? If it was a hard read then I would have accepted being part of the way through. However not once have you actually specified anything from your reading. This feels like someone in the scum PT said “hey vote Math, he’s onto us”

Since Umlaut won’t happen today I will vote VOTE: TrinityNZ

Shocking the replacements have only strengthened my reads.

[MathBlade]

After that last post in particular, Umlaut is looking strongly town to me. I can’t imagine mafia doing that much research.

Yeah Trinity is scum. She refuses to analyze any post in depth or answer my direct probe of anything useful she has read.

Sad thing was I was “this close” to nullreading Umlaut til that post.

Effort is not alignment indicative. I have been townread for that shit in Gistou and Shadowrun and Mod is Mafia.

I am making a direct effort to not flood with text and walls and instead let my yeses be yeses and my nos be nos.

This case from Umlaut looks like an excuse to not talk about Trinity / Magna. It’s terrible.

[MathBlade]

One more statement on the cop claim reactions. Apparently not a single person moved off the wagon, so sanity is too much to ask, but we can certainly distinguish between players by what they actually wanted out of the day.

Of the players who rejected Fuzzy's claim:

• MathBlade actively engaged people, tried to convince them, and made every effort to talk things through.
  
• Dunnstral seemed unsure, and made some effort to talk things through.
  
• Kokichi Oma wanted to hold out for a Fitz replacement, so that we were all here to talk things through.
  
• Pine was happy to just let things proceed, and didn't really seem too worried one way or the other about talking things through.
  
• LuckyOtter
  called for an immediate hammer
  before anyone else could talk anything through.

This is the difference between playing to catch scum and playing to mislynch.


Otter and Pine are both scum. On an ISO skim I have no problem seeing them as scum together. Third scum is probably (though not definitely) off the d1 wagon, implying one of {ArcAngel, Eevee, Hiraki} (or I guess me), and of those I think ArcAngel is the best bet.

---

Dear Otter-the-person,

Sorry about dropping this anvil on you just as you go V/LA. I honestly thought you wouldn't be until tomorrow at the earliest.

Furthermore this is largest indicative of some kind of communication between Otter and Umlaut.

How would you suspect/know Otter would be going on VLA and not be til tomorrow?

Actually Trinity/Otter/Umlaut with Wisdom scum beard ain’t bad

[MathBlade]

After that last post in particular, Umlaut is looking strongly town to me. I can’t imagine mafia doing that much research.

Yeah Trinity is scum. She refuses to analyze any post in depth or answer my direct probe of anything useful she has read.

Sad thing was I was “this close” to nullreading Umlaut til that post.

Effort is not alignment indicative. I have been townread for that shit in Gistou and Shadowrun and Mod is Mafia.

I am making a direct effort to not flood with text and walls and instead let my yeses be yeses and my nos be nos.

This case from Umlaut looks like an excuse to not talk about Trinity / Magna. It’s terrible.

You’re saying that ‘effort is not alignment indicative’. Then you’re saying that I’m scum because I ‘refuse to analyse any post in depth’. Make up your mind.

1) It isn’t after a certain point. Down by definition want to get reads and solve the game. To do that reading must take place of which you are not. So there is a minimum bar for town. However there is no “they put in this much effort must be town point”. Again you are reducing what I say to points I am not saying and then attacking that inaccurate representation.

2) You’re still not talking any sort of reads with any sort of reasons. You’re obviously scum at this point and I struggle to see how anyone could townread you. @Umlaut If you don’t townread Trinity vote with me there. If you do explain why. For all the posting you’ve done on other people with your walls you’ve said little about her.

@Hiraki I did look before then. If my tinfoil as it were is wrong show me where it is since it took you two seconds.

@MafMen Needs to die too same reasons as Trinity. MafMen seems content on spamming.

[MathBlade]

V/LA from this game until Sunday.

[MathBlade]

My stomach is scum claiming.

Pine wagon is bad.

I have said the group of people I will vote. I don’t vote a 5th or 6th level read in a plurality game.

[MathBlade]

+1 from Pine

The scum team just seems to be moving from town wagon to town wagon when it’s just Umlaut and Trinity.

Umlaut’s entire argument while verbose I can take the exact same words and apply it to anyone and will do so if need be as a parody.

Umlaut’s post is a major excuse not to join me on the Trinity wagon.

And to answer the question why I wouldn’t join you on Otter is because Otter scum requires a distinct set of conditions. You and Trinity don’t.

Pine join me on Trinity.

[MathBlade]

I’m unnerved that Evee was completely ignoring this case and wagon on them. I’m also unnerved that none of the people voting evee with Umlaut seemed to actually care about the prior case. Math has his own independent reasoning for town!Evee, Wisdom just wants to be on the biggest wagon Math townreads, Hiraki is voting him mostly for ????, and Trinity says he’s scummy but hasn’t so much as interacted with him or pointed to anything he’s written that she scumreads.

Sorry I got tied up in RL there is the parody start.

There is literally nothing new in your posts.

I know I can’t stop you from who you want today but if your reads are wrong you are sheeping me tomorrow or it is a scum claim. Or you can sheep me on Trinity now, your choice.

[MathBlade]

What the fuck is wrong with all of you

We let him live, if hes cop scum kill him, if not hes forced to conftown someone

We absolutely dont lynch a cop claim

Wisdom: What the fuck is wrong with you? Don’t lynch an uncc’d claim.
Wisdom keeps his vote on an uncc’d counterclaim on a wagon with no reasons behind it.

Jesus Wisdom is obvScum or just a hypocrite.

[MathBlade]

yeah because all claims and all players are the same and context doesnt matter

And you were absolute Fuzzy was not to be lynched despite overwhelming scumminess from the slot.

Now you’re saying that the context is either A) Irrevelant which means you should be unvoting

Or B) You are sarcastic which means your arguments for me being scum are out the window.

A or B Pick

Oh and we should lynch Trinity.

[MathBlade]

I'm the doctor. Back off

Now stop with the counter wagons and get on eevee

No. Evee has been pushed by scum all game.

Join me on Trinity.

Everyone agrees that slot is scum just no one is doing a damn thing about it.

[MathBlade]

Scum!Trinity has no idea whether my case looks towny or not.

I don't understand where you're going with this one, how does him being town let him know if your case looks towny vs him being scum

Besides being patently false, in that scum know obvTown when they see it and are not served by pushing for their lynch and thus can evaluate cases for tow ones they just already know who is town.

Town can act scummy and scum can act towny.

Secondly and most importantly why the fuck are you caring how your case “looks”? If you’re town you’d just fucking bring it.

[MathBlade]

What the fuck is wrong with all of you

We let him live, if hes cop scum kill him, if not hes forced to conftown someone

We absolutely dont lynch a cop claim

Wisdom: What the fuck is wrong with you? Don’t lynch an uncc’d claim.
Wisdom keeps his vote on an uncc’d counterclaim on a wagon with no reasons behind it.

Jesus Wisdom is obvScum or just a hypocrite.

A cop living is much more valuable than a doc living with nothing to protect. We already lost cop docs dead tonight either way might as well lynch him ourselves.

If he is the doctor then we force scum to do that kill rather than someone whose reads are a threat. If Pine is the doctor it will become clear. If Pine is the doctor and not killed scum have to deal with a potential protective same as before.

So no. I am pretty sure Pine is the doctor and if he is lying and a protective is out there then if that protective dies pine dies. Pine is literally on a timer.

I’ve townread Pine and still do. Lynching Pine imho is bad. Have a little faith and join me on Trinity.

[MathBlade]

Eevee: Doctor has nothing to protect and is a useless role now

Also Eevee: But

real

doc shouldn't claim and we should lynch the only doctor claim

Not true at all.

All of us are VT except for one protective.

And if Pine is scum then if a protective dies Pine gets powerlynched. This ensures the protective can never die.

And saving an NK is a huge boon for us if it happens. It means that we have a conf town of who the doc tried to protect.

[MathBlade]

Let’s play a game

If I am the protective I protected Kokichi.

[MathBlade]

Quite honestly this changes nothing.

We see which of the protective claims dies tonight then whoever’s left eats dirt.

I have ran reverse counter claim gambits and seen stupid counter claims.

Now if anyone wishes to rescind now’s the time.

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE:

You ruined my setup for a fakehammer so I may as well post this.

Totally unofficial and untrustworthy VC

EeveeLution Army - 3 (MafMen, Umlaut, Pine)
MathBlade - 2 (Wisdom, TrinityNZ)
Pine - 2 (EeveeLution Army, Hiraki)
TrinityNZ - 1 (MathBlade)

Not Voting - 3 (Lycanfire, LuckyOtter, Dunnstral)

want to see what Lycan does.

Yeah.

Let’s play a game

If I am the protective I protected Kokichi.

This doesn't make sense in this setup.

There is just no way both of these claims are fake. If they are, real protective counters right now and we lynch them all, getting two scum for at worst one doctor.

You've been hard-townreading Pine. You've been hard-townreading Eevee. One of them is scum. Which is it?

@Trinity

You've never given any hint of a read on the following slots: Dunnstral, EeveeLution Army, Wisdom. I'd like to know where you place them right now. Actually, a full read list would be helpful.

I don’t more have time to do anything in depth, but this is my list right now:

Pine - town - was scum until just now, but because of Eevee’s fake counterclaim, I’ve changed my mind for the time being
Wisdom - strongly town
Umlaut - town
Dunnstral - townlean
Hiraki - slight townlean
Lucky Otter - slight townlean
Lycanfire - not sure yet
MafMen - scumlean
MathBlade - scum
Eevee - scum - top contender, after the contradiction about doctor/jailkeeper

This is scum with Pine will be at work. Intent to hammer I think?

@mastina VC please

[MathBlade]

V/La until tomorrow

It’s actually better to lynch Trinity and then let scum NK the protective and then lynch the leftovers but I don’t think people will do that.

Will respond to stuff when off V/LA

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

Nah I haven’t heard a good reason why we should resolve them. 50/50 odds of hitting wrong.

If Army is the protective high chance of kill stopping
If Pine is the protective less of a chance but still some
If I am the protective and I die then no one has to play with me huzzah

Everyone wins.
Btw if I am the protective I am a bodyguard.

We win if scum shoot the protective as the lynch would be on who we suspected the partner was and it gives us more to work with if scum shoot the protective.

[MathBlade]

I would rather scum tell us who scum is if I am not the protective or to eat a bullet for said protective.

If I am the protective then I want scum to have to wifom between me or not.
If there are two scum CCing each other then if I die protective then both slots have explaining to do and start the “explanations” with Pine.
If there is one scum it is almost certainly Pine and Army fake claimed out of frustration.

We gain much more forcing the wifom than we ever do lynching in it.

Because scum don’t know if I am protective or not only I do

I would really prefer Trinity. But MafMen also acceptable

[MathBlade]

And yay Umlaut is scum.

Mass claim is useless but you’re trying to stop my fucking with scum’s heads.

Anyone who hasn’t claimed protective claims VT. There is zero investigative to validate

Mass claim is a useless waste of spam [Trinity,Umlaut,Mafmen] my lynchpool for today

VOTE: Unvote

[MathBlade]

I would rather scum tell us who scum is if I am not the protective or to eat a bullet for said protective.

If you are a bodyguard than you never guard Eevee or Pine because you know they are both lying and almost certainly scum. In fact if you are a bodyguard you are acutely aware of that fact and don't forget it for long enough to make that post.

You aren't the bodyguard. Either you're a VT more interested in showing off how clever you are than winning the game, or you're scum straining for a reason to keep both Pine and Eevee alive.

Aw contraire as a bodyguard I would bodyguard Eevee as that is where scum are likely to shoot. Maybe Pine if Pine decides to try to convince me he is town. Of course that is assuming I am the bodyguard. If I am not then it’s all wine obviously. Harmless wine.

If I am scum which I am not then it is to my detriment to keep both alive for what I stated. We learn from who scum kill more than the lynch within them.

[MathBlade]

Fake claiming is a thing people do. So I wouldn’t rush to judgment. I wouldn’t put it past Army as town to fake a CC.

[MathBlade]

You do realize its 10× better lynching pine than me right?
If i really am jailkeeper(which i am) i can still block scum tonight after pines gone. Its just more logical

Why would you say ‘if I really am a jailkeeper’? Seems strange. Why not just say ‘Because I am a jailkeeper’...?

Because it’s a post meant for other people.

I have used the same wording numerous times as both alignments and I am pretty sure I have done that this game.

Why pick on Evee for it and not me?

And furthermore what if I am right and Evee is fake claiming? If I am the protective Y’all better learn to love the word if for the rest of the day.

[MathBlade]

You do realize its 10× better lynching pine than me right?
If i really am jailkeeper(which i am) i can still block scum tonight after pines gone. Its just more logical

Why would you say ‘if I really am a jailkeeper’? Seems strange. Why not just say ‘Because I am a jailkeeper’...?

Because it’s a post meant for other people.

I have used the same wording numerous times as both alignments and I am pretty sure I have done that this game.

Why pick on Evee for it and not me?

And furthermore what if I am right and Evee is fake claiming? If I am the protective Y’all better learn to love the word if for the rest of the day.

You didn’t answer the question.

Trinity+MafMen+????

Hot tip provided Free of Charge

[MathBlade]

Eevee said they claimed because they "didn't think town was going to lynch pine"

Now they're talking about claiming while afraid of dying and the votes on them not showing if they're scum

Also like I said they were probably the lynch without that claim - I think they're scum who afraid of being lynched once their target claimed doctor decided to counterclaim and then push theory as for why their claim makes sense

VOTE: EeveelutionArmy

This is stupid

The post by Army is clearly sarcasm.

Trinity saying she doesn’t read my posts is a fucking scum claim

If I die tonight fucking lynch Trinity

[MathBlade]

Eevee said they claimed because they "didn't think town was going to lynch pine"

Now they're talking about claiming while afraid of dying and the votes on them not showing if they're scum

Also like I said they were probably the lynch without that claim - I think they're scum who afraid of being lynched once their target claimed doctor decided to counterclaim and then push theory as for why their claim makes sense

VOTE: EeveelutionArmy

This is stupid

The post by Army is clearly sarcasm.

Trinity saying she doesn’t read my posts is a fucking scum claim

If I die tonight fucking lynch Trinity

I have just read all your posts again and still cannot see anywhere were you said this.

Speaking of Mafmen, he hasn't posted here since Monday, pre-claim business

@Mastina, prod please

If we're deciding between claims, Eevee's seems more plausible and I don't see Eevee making that counter as scum at that moment. Eevee's play does seem scummier but it just feels like a bad move lynching him.

If we're going to let the NK resolve it (which really isn't a bad idea), I have no clue anymore. Trinity keeps giving me bad vibes.

@Trinity

Maybe you didn't see it, but immediately following your Math vote I asked you to explain the basis of it.
--
Math, are you trying to get a hypoclaim going because you think it plausible both Pine and Eevee are lying?
--
Umlaut, most of your argumentation depends on associatives and there are a couple I'm not sure about. Maf's straight up "Pine is town without a doubt" seems pretty bold for a scumpartner, don't you think? If anything, it makes more sense to me if Maf is scum and knows Pine is town, or Maf is town and is just being opaque with his reads (as he seems to like to do, given that he called anyone who suspected you "daft" without explanation until asked for it).

The second problem is the Trinity+Eevee combo. Trinity was scumreading Pine, then after Eevee's counterclaim, scum!Trinity would have been able to sit on a Pine vote and stay out of the way and get the mislynch. Instead, scum!Trinity busses her partner who just counterclaimed? It seems equally plausible (or implausible) that scum!Trinity could have been trying to bus scum!Pine who appeared to be going down, then took the opportunity to change her mind as soon as Pine claimed (which she might have known he would do anyway). Following Eevee's counter, Trinity decides to believe Pine over Eevee, for pretty underwhelming reasons.

So I don't know. Sticking to Pine for now.

OK, so Otter I’ve been going backwards and forwards on MathBlade. I didn’t like him at first because he’d pushed really hard on Fuzzy, who turned out to be town, and I thought he’d been pretty instrumental in that mislynch. His posts have been cavalier and rude at times, and I asked him a few questions that he never bothered to answer. He has also tried to say I haven’t been reading posts, when I have. So I was finding him pretty tiresome and conflating that to mean he must be mafia. But, having done an ISO and reading all the posts at once, I think he has been scum hunting pretty hard, and I understand his reads on me, as I don’t tend to do the most in-depth posting, which leaves me open to being read as scum I guess. So I’m currently reading him as town, and am still all for lynching Eevee.

Then you’re not reading Trinity or you’re scum

The past few pages have been nothing but

“if I am X”
“Someone might fake claim”
And I highly doubt you read all of my posts again unless you read greater than 200 WPM and if you did good luck on actually comprehending that shit, if anyone cares I can do the math later

@Umlaut
If I am a bodyguard that would be dumb as nails to do because that just ensures me as the NK and my top townread of the two gets lynched.

Scum want to remove a PR role today. Lynching in that only helps scum.

If I am the bodyguard then scum will have to kill me eventually, me Pine Army endgame just doesn’t happen
If I am not the bodyguard and we lynch Pine scum, scum kill Army as they have no choice unless they shoot me thinking I am giving Army an extra night.
If I am not the bodyguard and we lynch Army scum, scum kill Pine as they have no choice unless they shoot me thinking I am giving Pine an extra night.
This means scum KNOW they have to decide the wifom now else risk a conf Town tomorrow.

This also means if we lynch the scum right today and I am not the bodyguard scenario in the Pine town scenario no more saved kills. Army then has to guess who is actually going to shoot.

By forcing this to be open if you don’t think I am the bodyguard then you force scum to reveal to use who in Pine and Army is likely scum AND make sure the protective has a chance to save a kill.

If you think I am the bodyguard then please listen to your one PR role when they tell you to back off.

Scum are going to want to get rid of the PR. The proper play is always to force scum to NK PRs.

If you townread me trust me on this.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade, all your reasoning about hypothetical bodyguards is based on the premise that scum have to kill it first because it stops them from killing their preferred target. If you had thought for two minutes about what the bodyguard actually does you would know this isn't true because they would just shoot at their preferred target and if a bodyguard prevents them it dies in exactly the same way as if they'd shot the bodyguard directly. This alone would be sufficient evidence that your hypoclaim is meritless, but there's also this:

Gonna be afk today and tomorrow. I am an okay mislynch if y’all can’t see I am town.

This is not something a protective role says. You're not a bodyguard and you're not fooling anyone into believing you might be.

I say you are Eevee's scumbuddy looking for an excuse to extend this 1v1 another day. There is just no way you have this strong an objection to resolving a 1v1 between protectives with no other PR to protect but were perfectly happy to push for a lynch of Fuzzy the uncountered cop claimant with a hidden protective still around.

This also explains perfectly why Eevee would counterclaim when he did. Ordinarily I'd think it was a bad decision vs. just shooting Pine that night, but if the only growing wagons were on him and his buddy Math then they had to do something drastic to avoid a scum lynch.

If you think I am the bodyguard then please listen to your one PR role when they tell you to back off.

Scum are going to want to get rid of the PR. The proper play is always to force scum to NK PRs.

If you townread me trust me on this.

I don't townread you any more. Nor do I think you're a PR even if you are town. And even if I did, PRs aren't handed out according to reasoning ability so I see no reason to listen to you over and above anyone else. Nice AtE though.

Bodyguards die for their townreads be it through lynch or NK.

I have said similar when I was a bodyguard and hammered a scumJailkeeper in a game I was in and got NK’d night one and saved the masons.

I know exactly how to WiFoM scum if you only let me

Army being lynched was stupid and she flips town.

[MathBlade]

<<Intent to vote Pine>>

I just don’t want this day to end yet til I can get a read on Jingle and Jingle can catch up and be off work sched from hell.

[MathBlade]

@Jingle Pine Wis Lyc is where I am at.

I don’t agree with the Hiraki read Umlaut had.

Your slot was a troll slot before replacing out but your entrance has me feel moderately okay about you. Mainly I wanna see if you do what I think is your evidence scum tell before pinning a needle in that team.

Where is your head at Jingle?

[MathBlade]

Haven't had time to finish reading, but 24 hours will have passed by the time I can post again, so I'm going to make this post to try and get the turnover towards the next page and game the system for a better conversation with Wisdom.

LO, your read on the D1 wagon is pretty much the opposite of mine. Any particular reason you expect scum were keen to push specifically that lynch through?

I eagerly await your thoughts.

[MathBlade]

LO, your read on the D1 wagon is pretty much the opposite of mine. Any particular reason you expect scum were keen to push specifically that lynch through?

Still quite interested in this response, don't particularly want to talk about Pinescum case until I get an answer. Still do want to talk about Pine scumcase.



@Trinity:

Who are your other scumreads and why?

Your slot was a troll slot before replacing out but your entrance has me feel moderately okay about you.

I kinda got that from D2, actually, which means I was never going to be the nightkill last night and the lycan bit is less damning than I previously thought, but still worth noting. His continued posting makes me more and more certain I'm correct.

Spoiler: Wistown Case Quotes

i dont like fitz
his scumleans are based on nai things

i like hiraki and arc
hiraki's articulated read on arc felt good even though I disagree
arc omgusing me is natural for town-her as she's a reactive person mainly based on emotions

<<<

INFRACTION

: Fifth post on a page in under 24 hours; user has been warned. >>>

What NAI things are my scumleans based on wrt you and Eevee?

These:

@Eevee, wrt 77...as much as you value your vote if you WERE to vote it would be me, the person who's possibly posted the least? You've no suspicions up to this point from what content there is from others?

@Wis, wrt 82...do you ever say you're town when you're scum? If fluffing is NAI why the Koki vote?

You having posted the least doesn't mean Eevee is not allowed to scumread you more than people who have posted more. This is no basis for a scumlean.

Me saying I am town is meaningless and thus nai. Me voting Kokichi can be for any number of reasons regardless of what I think of his fluff. This is no basis for a scumlean.

VOTE: fitz

dont post again, Wisdom, fourth post.

There is a pattern here that is established and continued that leads me to believe Wisdom is town. The pages where Wisdom has trouble with hitting his limit early are also those pages where Wisdom is pushing a read. He's not using his posts to strongman the thread and get people to follow him, but to prod and illuminate. Admittedly, I remembered him as actually getting more infractions, but the posts that were close and thus posts in which he reminds himself not to continue posting follow this pattern.

This tells me Wisdom is likely having trouble not continuing to post not because he's spammy scum who wants to control the thread but because he's spammy town who wants to comment/poke for content.

Additionally, he gets major credit for being a voice of reason on both of the bad-theory lynches.

I'll be back to do more reading later, in case anyone has questions.

How would you respond if I said your scumtell was here and I planned on pushing you tomorrow?

[MathBlade]

Because having the chance to get rid of the cop D1 without having to worry about the protective role getting in the way is probably worth the risk of voting together.

Why do you have the opposite read?

The way the wagon formed is precisely why I thought Pine was scum in the first place.

The game was stalled out, Pine wasn't really trying for the lynch, and he wasn't really pushing. Pine, both as town and scum is more than capable of pushing a lynch, which means he didn't really care. Thus, scum was probably not in a position where they needed to be concerned at all on day one

Pine voted for fuzzy in 35 for a weak reason, then stayed there for the entire day phase. He pretended to be hardscumreading it but spent no time pushing the lynch. The only reason the wagon even went through was because of a deadline with absentee players. BoP, but Pine town and Pine scum are better at getting their lynch through than that. If he'd actually cared about lynching fuzzy, it wouldn't be a deadline affair, it would have been done long before that. Conclusion? Pine didn't give a shit and both leading wagons are town, meaning Fitzslot can be trusted.

Your analysis is suspect because of the votes on Fuzzy, two came post cop claim. My slot's vote and Wisdom's deadline hammer. My slot is necessarily town by my own information, and Wisdom's slot spent the end of the phase trying to get a different wagon to take off.

How would you respond if I said your scumtell was here and I planned on pushing you tomorrow?

I'd wonder why you were waiting if you thought I actually was scum. TBF, I did realize that I 100% need to be lynched before LYLO anyway though, from a mechanical standpoint, because my slot fake softclaimed D1 and thus we can't bring me to LYLO.

My answer to this is: “Why would you cast shade on me when we know Pine is the proper lynch today?”

I am 100% DTLJ tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

Nah I want Jingle to be caught up before night happens

I want “I didn’t have time” to not be an excuse for Jingle not being caught up

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Jingle

What’s the proper strategy here Jingle?

[MathBlade]

What’s the proper strategy here Jingle?

I recognize all of these as English words.

I recognize that together those words form a sentence.

I don't recognize that sentence as having any meaning at all in the context of this game, and would appreciate translation.

I await your mysterious scumtell, preferably sooner than later, so that I can tell if you're blowing smoke up my ass or just hilariously wrong.

And for the record, I have read the thread at this point.

@LO: What?

viewtopic.php?p=10176950#p10176950

The place where your scum tell exists.

You said you had to be lynched before Mylo. I scumread you. You’re following a scum tell.

You need to die.

What are your reads in more detail?

[MathBlade]

@Hiraki, K. Yesterday you said you didn't like some of Dunn's phrasings. Can you clarify that with examples?

They read bad in post-sight. I might've called them good before but there's something I didn't really get about them. That had a lot to do with how Lucky had Eevee and Pine pinned as scum together. I never ever got that feeling and we agreed on reads there. I think Wisdom even called me out on this and I just said I dunno.

Pine you need to get on eevee

When, at the same time:

2. Earlier in the game I'd disagree with this, but given the state of the game now, this is correct. Just sticking a single vote on someone when there are 2 or 3 other wagons going, the proponents of which aren't budging very much, is not going to go anywhere and Eevee must know this.
If Eevee actually proposed any kind of case for pushing Pine, I'd feel better about it.

Seems like a scum on scum interaction to me - eevee with pine

I get the feeling that Fuzzy is town, also I don't like seeing pine and sircakez on there

1) cause honestly i dont see why mom got killed at all

Why does that mean it wasn't pine specifically?

Weird that you said this but now can't back it up or even explain your thought process here

It's only after they CC that this theory (obviously) drops but it's weird in hindsight. There's really no reason to push it this hard. Which is something to note when the CC does happen -

I'm the doctor. Back off

Now stop with the counter wagons and get on eevee

I don't get where this shift comes from.

This argument makes 0 sense with an encryptor in play

[MathBlade]

I did. Your argument makes no sense. So pretend like I am five and explain it to me.

Trinity Jingle still looks good. Hiraki I dunno.

I really wanna see how Jingle responds here.

[MathBlade]

Dunn, what are your reads?

VOTE: pine

Jingle and hiraki after

What do you all think? Does this sound like a plan?

Are you implying that you think this is the plan to follow or are you asking for direction here?

Like I said, that's the easiest answer. It aligns with both Umlaut's and Wisdom's thoughts. I have expressed my doubts about those two as scum, and about you and Dunn as town, but since I'm still here and both Umlaut and Wisdom are gone, I'm willing to assume that at least one of my reads here is off, possibly all of them.
--
I am not following either Math or Hiraki here.

So scum!Dunn is distancing from Pine and pushing for Eevee lynch saying both are scum. Dunn knows Pine is going to claim (via encryptor), which is going to allow him to go after Eevee, again. So he can comfortably vote Pine for a bit knowing he's going to get to go back to voting Eevee.
Or, town!Dunn legit believes both Pine and Eevee are scum, and does some digging into that line of thought. After the claims, he has to decide which is scum and chooses Eevee, presumably because Eevee was the stronger scumread from the beginning (which he just said, and reading his ISO checks out)

Either scenario seems plausible to me and I don't see how the encryptor in play changes things.

With an encryptor in play scum has zero reason to tell a buddy
“Partner you need to do <x>” they say it in the daychat.

Hiraki’s argument that scum!Dunnstral would openly say his buddy needs to change votes in the game thread is silly

[MathBlade]

What’s the proper strategy here Jingle?

I recognize all of these as English words.

I recognize that together those words form a sentence.

I don't recognize that sentence as having any meaning at all in the context of this game, and would appreciate translation.

I await your mysterious scumtell, preferably sooner than later, so that I can tell if you're blowing smoke up my ass or just hilariously wrong.

And for the record, I have read the thread at this point.

@LO: What?

viewtopic.php?p=10176950#p10176950

The place where your scum tell exists.

You said you had to be lynched before Mylo. I scumread you. You’re following a scum tell.

You need to die.

What are your reads in more detail?

Counter-argument:

Grey Flag Geriatric Game.

I do need to die.

I'm working on them as we speak. When I'm ready, I'll talk about them, but until then I'd like to engage with the players in thread and refine them. I only get the one shot at this, and my read so far is that scum is rather unworried by the gamestate. That means I need to be thorough. We have the time to play solve the thread, so I'm going to work on solving the thread.

@Jingle, if you've read the thread, there should be no confusion at this point

False Dichotomy.

Let's phrase this a different way then. Why does it make any sense for me to be specifically a likely scumpartner to someone on the basis that I was attempting to engage a townread about their suspicion on that player? Specifically, what is the logical reason that leads you to the partner conclusion based on me replacing in and asking someone to talk MORE about why a particular player is scum, especially after I have already expressed that I cannot be allowed to survive into LYLO?

Hey I’m really sorry, I’m going on holiday to Rarotonga on Saturday for a week, and probably won’t have internet. Is it best to go on V/LA or ask for a replacement? I thought the game wouldn’t last this long.

Normally, I'd say a week is the limit and you should ask for a replacement. In this particular case, I happen to know that mastina has been having some issues finding replacements and it might just be best to stay in it.

I'd be fine with letting you go V/LA that long given the relaxed nature of this game, but you might also consider telling mastina that you are requesting replacement, but that if your slot is still vacant when you return you'd be happy to resume playing in it. That way the game isn't stalled on your account if it would otherwise have been progressing, but she doesn't have to deal with as much pressure searching for a replacement for your slot would normally cause.

VOTE: Unvote

Spiritually my vote is still here but I would love for you to keep sharing reads.

[MathBlade]

Dunn, what are your reads?

VOTE: pine

Jingle and hiraki after

What do you all think? Does this sound like a plan?

Are you implying that you think this is the plan to follow or are you asking for direction here?

Like I said, that's the easiest answer. It aligns with both Umlaut's and Wisdom's thoughts. I have expressed my doubts about those two as scum, and about you and Dunn as town, but since I'm still here and both Umlaut and Wisdom are gone, I'm willing to assume that at least one of my reads here is off, possibly all of them.
--
I am not following either Math or Hiraki here.

So scum!Dunn is distancing from Pine and pushing for Eevee lynch saying both are scum. Dunn knows Pine is going to claim (via encryptor), which is going to allow him to go after Eevee, again. So he can comfortably vote Pine for a bit knowing he's going to get to go back to voting Eevee.
Or, town!Dunn legit believes both Pine and Eevee are scum, and does some digging into that line of thought. After the claims, he has to decide which is scum and chooses Eevee, presumably because Eevee was the stronger scumread from the beginning (which he just said, and reading his ISO checks out)

Either scenario seems plausible to me and I don't see how the encryptor in play changes things.

With an encryptor in play scum has zero reason to tell a buddy
“Partner you need to do <x>” they say it in the daychat.

Hiraki’s argument that scum!Dunnstral would openly say his buddy needs to change votes in the game thread is silly

Pine didn't care even a little about this game. You think he really checked a PT over the thread?

Except by all measures he did.
He is one of the highest in post count
He fake claimed to lure out the doc
And continued posting even after being outed the next day.

These are all indications of caring.
If he was a lurker I would agree with you.

What evidence do you have that he didn’t care?

[MathBlade]

Spiritually my vote is still here but I would love for you to keep sharing reads.

Literally all I ask for is the space to build my reads and a town willing to consider them when I'm dead.

Did you get a chance to look through that game I linked for my 'scumtell' yet?

It's not, really. Both Umlaut and Wisdom had you and Hiraki as Pine buddies. They are both dead. The easy answer to this is you and Hiraki are scum. That doesn't make it the right answer, but it's the easy answer and you should be well aware of this if you've read the thread. I believe you've read the thread, just not that you are confused about why people are putting you and Hiraki together.

Except that this is not the argument you made. What you did mention was a progression that lead you to think we were specifically partners.

On a purely gut level, your asking Wisdom about Hiraki reads a tad defensive and disingenuous to me. Wisdom already said he was pretty much following Umlaut on that, so that much should have been clear to you. It read to me as challenging Wisdom, not engaging him to elaborate. I could be wrong there but you are clearly not a minimalist poster so a short "Why Hiraki" doesn't seem likely to be genuinely engaging from you.

A direct request for more information is "Challenging, not engaging him to elaborate"? And this on the basis that I am not a minimalist poster? So what would you expect from me as a request for more information, as opposed to a challenge?

The rest of your post doesn't make sense in context, btw. I asked "What leads you to the conclusion that Hiraki is my partner?" and you responded with "You asking what leads me to the conclusion that Hiraki is my partner." This is necessarily false, and therefore cannot be the answer to my question.

Further, it occurs to me you never answered my 1149. What ever came of that analysis?

The other conversation aside:
What do you make of Hiraki?
And assuming you are town and I am town and Hiraki is scum who is scum with Hiraki and why?
Assuming you are town and Hiraki is town and I am town who is scum and why?

Lastly why shouldn’t I believe you are scum with Hiraki?

If you need more words than the post limit allows post <NEED A POST> and I will provide one.

[MathBlade]

I think that your defense of yourself rather than posting any sort of read is rather telling Jingle.

Even if all those points are true, you advocate for what you think is the best play for town as scum.

I am waiting for you to actually post a question or some bit of hunting before I go in depth. I think I understand how you operate as scum and if you are I want to throw you off your game a bit. And if you aren’t the unbiased nature of how I will go about this will surely help you.

@Hiraki
1) Again that proves the point. One liners and prod dodges showed he cared enough to stay in the game. He didn’t want to change the gamestate at those points hence his posts were small.

2)I wasn’t implying it as a huge chess move. What I am implying is that he cared enough to see it through. He didn’t just post it once and forget about it or half ass it. He continually attacked Army. He kept on fighting. That is someone who cares whether his team wins or not.

3) Again the seriousness of the posts is irrelevant. What matters is that he kept posting. He could have just shut up. He was outed scum. That means either he was told to do it in scum chat again or cared enough to post it on his own. The tone of them is irrelevant.

4) So? Again. Him not responding to your probe if you’re town makes him scum which has been proven. However there are hall markers of him caring all over.

I do not think there is anyway Dunnstral is scum with Pine. I’d only reevaluate if Jingle flips green.

[MathBlade]

Fuzzy isn't cop. We only have 8 hours and need a lynch.

vote for a deadline extension of 1 week

Just in case it doesn't work.

VOTE: fuzzy

8 hrs remain this is L1 someone hammer. I can guarantee he isn't cop.

For reference, this is the post that means I cannot be allowed to live until LYLO. I got incredibly excited when I first read it, and then sad when I realized it guaranteed a mislynch. At least I get to lynch Pine though.

Nothing has changed since this.

Dunn is town.

Jingle is prob scum and if I am wrong is necessary anyway.

If Jingle is scum never lynch Dunn. Then we win.

If Jingle is town then the NK says a lot. If I die don’t lynch Dunn. If Dunn dies that townfirms me even further.

If someone in the remainder dies Dunn and I just form an impenetrable town block. Gg no re.

[MathBlade]

I always pick Hiraki first there Jingle. If you’re town it shouldn’t matter which order scum go down in yeah?

[MathBlade]

Hello friends I forgot about this game

I want to lynch in {Math, Jingle}. I don't like the conversation they had together yesterday. If people think that shit was legit, please just lynch me instead so I can forget about the game again, thanks.

Jingle going for Otter is pretty much expected because on page 12 Gerry made it pretty clear that he wouldn't be scumbuds with Otter. We're one day off from lylo, so a scum!Jingle would have to be reasonably sure everything wouldn't go wrong today and a town lynch would go down. This would actually point against Math, who is making everything about Jingle but for shit reasons.

For instance, this "scumtell" has never been apparent to me-Jingle came into the game swinging against me about how I should somehow give a shit about Pine's opinions if I myself were scum. Spoiler: the one time I was scum with Pine, he was deadweight and I spent the entire day 1 feeding him notes, reads, and positions to take on issues and he decided to flake. Based on my experience with Pine as either alignment and the fact that I've never played with Jingle, if I were informed Jingle was town, I'd probably think

less

of him.

So, I can't help but connect the dots between Math's Jingle scumtell and the narrative Jingle was trying to establish by using Pine and myself as crude sockpuppets in a play.

~~but what is the point in any of this~~

If you build a wagon out of shit, it's remarkably difficult to actually get it to move. See my "what are scum doing? trying to not get lynched or set up lylo post" from yesterday.

I don't get all the attention on Hiraki lately it's either that he is the center of attention or added into the mix on the periphery. Most likely: he was eyed by Wisdom for a long ass time and Otter-Dunn doing the same thing is making Hiraki's align a narrative of the day. 1199 is basically a meme.

VOTE: Jingle

Say what now? I do not understand this post at all.

Jingle is an easy as fuck scumread for me when he does certain things. There are things he always does as scum.

A wagon out of good points is also hard to move on scum (see Jingle when I replaced into that police game) his Almost50 interactions were a scum claim.

Like I feel like my brain is Swiss cheese after this post.

I am actually wondering if Hiraki is town and if it is Jingle Lycanfire

[MathBlade]

Intent to vote Jingle once VC is posted

[MathBlade]

im waiting for trinity

We’re not waiting more than 10 days on Trinity. I will hammer if you have nothing else to add. That is longer than the night phase.

[MathBlade]

Hey I’m really sorry, I’m going on holiday to Rarotonga on Saturday for a week, and probably won’t have internet. Is it best to go on V/LA or ask for a replacement? I thought the game wouldn’t last this long.

No. This says Trinity is leaving on holiday this Saturday 7/11 for a week 7/18.

We are not going 10+ days without content.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Jingle

Too lazy and busy to check the votes. This should be hammer if Jingle's wasn't.

[MathBlade]

Dude I think you’re double hammered it’s more just waiting on Mastina to post a VC

[MathBlade]

fyi, we're only guaranteed 1 flip before lylo, not 2. scum can no-kill and considering how quickly the team got eviscerated i'm sure they would be happy for the draw.

i'm pretty sure all ya'll are smart enough to figure that out as scum + otter was a force kill to keep as many suspects as possible in the game. he was legit never aligned with gerry and pine's interactions with him d1 didn't seem like theatre.

gonna read the thread tomorrow so i'll basically become a super saiyan, toodles

I see the concept but the words following from your post do not support the concept.
If they want to have as many possible suspects as possible they shoot myself or Dunn here.

I put out a case as to why Dunn was never scum with Pine. Lucky Otter was not cased like that.

I am thinking it’s Trinity here and Jingle made a stall play to make sure Trinity would submit a kill. With Trinity’s VLA for a week we are disincentived from lynching their slot.

I say for a week we go through all the remaining slots and go from there. This way everyone gives content and we don’t mislynch if scum simply isn’t here.

[MathBlade]

Yeah, late posting me yesterday was a little off but not really. Dunn/Trinity ends this game with the win.

Dunn should absolutely not be lynched. Like ever.

No scum buddy says “hey should we X” in thread unless one is trolling and caught. This was neither of those times.

[MathBlade]

Well, I'm not touching Lycanfire.

Good for you.

It’s Trinity or you so if you’re scum thanks for saying who you’ll never vote so if you get taken to lylo with Lycanfire not voting the other person would be a scum claim.

If you’re scum you’ve relinquished control of the board unless you nightkill Lycanfire which means that you me Dunn endgame in that case in which you just die because Dunn can’t be scum.

So that’s a very bad move if you’re scum.

@Dunn thoughts?

[MathBlade]

Well, I'm not touching Lycanfire.

Good for you.

It’s Trinity or you so if you’re scum thanks for saying who you’ll never vote so if you get taken to lylo with Lycanfire not voting the other person would be a scum claim.

If you’re scum you’ve relinquished control of the board unless you nightkill Lycanfire which means that you me Dunn endgame in that case in which you just die because Dunn can’t be scum.

So that’s a very bad move if you’re scum.

@Dunn thoughts?

Well I think someone brought up yesterday that deadline would be paused at night if Trinity wasn't picked?

I'll have to reread interactions but I think I remember that Hiraki looks bad with these flips

??? I don’t follow

[MathBlade]

Deadline being paused at night for Trinity
She had made several posts?

[MathBlade]

I worded that weird

I meant if Trinity wasn't here the night would be paused

That is blatantly false. A mod cannot do that as it can be used to confirm alignment.

For example if scum says “I am going to country X where I am going to a retreat with no cell phone or internet access for a week” then there is a kill scum could say “not me”

So they have to replace the slot or have night last the entire VLA. Since Trinity posted after her VLA night has to last the entire regular time.

[MathBlade]

In other words Trinity is just as likely a scum as anyone else and it should be based on day play. Plus she could send in her kill before VLA and most mods accept it.

If anything Trinity is scum because the mod wanted her to say in if Trinity is to be believed however I don’t believe in using that as a case so I am just gonna drop it and instead ask people to reread Trinity’s ISO and join me here.

VOTE: TrinityNZ

[MathBlade]

Well, I'm not touching Lycanfire.

Why not?

i think he's the most town here?

And if you’re scum I think you are indeed bad scum.

There is almost no way I am voting Dunn barring an extreme set of circumstances and then I would review the game. However scum is likely Trinity you Lycanfire in that order.

If Trinity flips town you kill Dunn then it likely turns into a you and I cross vote affair. I don’t see Lycanfire being scum here and Jingle’s wine discounts that theory. Ceding control of lylo is also a horrendously bad move if you’re scum.

If Trinity flips town you kill me it confirms Dunn as town and you’re forced to vote Lycanfire who you townread so you’re not going to do this.

If Trinity flips town you kill Lycanfire you lose as barring something incredibly scummy from Dunn like scumclaiming I vote you.

So TLDR Trinity or Hiraki and if Hiraki’s scum Hiraki made the wrong nightkill.

[MathBlade]

For context I disagree when you say Mathblade looks like the last scum

I was thinking Hiraki with off chance at trinity with you being the question mark

+1

I do not have time to respond to that entire wall

However if you do that much of a wall it sounds like your mind is made up to sell it versus the reasons why.
In other words there was a catalyst if you’re town that made you think I was scum what was it?

[MathBlade]

it's too damn hot to play mafia

i think jingle and mathblade are struggling to have a real conversation here

also please scumread me so i don't die tonight, god bless

Especially since this here

I was specifically talking with Jingle to get him to do moves as a chessboard.

I told him a fake tell deliberately (I kept the real one hidden XD) and then saw him try to defend the fake one rather than saying he wasn’t scum. He defended the tell not his alignment.

VOTE: Unvote

I don’t want derp hammer while Lycan and I chat.

[MathBlade]

Number 1) Yes I am online
Number 2) Sixty hour work week
Number 3) I can read just fine time to respond is limited
Number 4) Just because I am online doesn’t mean I have to respond right away
Number 5) There is value in succinctness. My guess is those posts go over or are pretty damn close. Most of them are not valid and I have zero desire to get in a quote wall with you.

People will reevaluate in lylo.
If I am mislynched then so be it and people will re-examine you based on the merits. It feels like today you decided to mislynch me which makes me question the townread on your slot.

I should have time Saturday.

[MathBlade]

1) I never said your posts were in violation of the spirit of the game.
I said there is value in succinctness. There is a huge difference.
2) Mastina is using an automated votecounter. If it says more than 500 it does. It’s a warning.
3) If you were away for the entire game then you either need to be more available now or accept the fact that time is gone.
4) I am not scum and therefore Mastina cannot scumside.
5) I have my townread in Dunnstral. I demonstrated how he cannot be scum. The only reason I am being attacked now is because if both me and Dunn survive scum cannot win.

They either get lynched today yay we win
They take one of me or Dunn to lylo.
In this case the scum are forced to cross vote.
It is not in our best interest to read wall when I singlehandedly saved Dunn who scum wanted to push.
So you’re scum or doing scum’s handiwork.

Your case is built on lies but none as agregious as attacking the fucking mod. Attacking ME is one thing
Attacking Mastina is another
I have known her a long ass time and she would never do the things you are accusing her of. Point blank.

So come after me all you want do not question Mastina’s integrity.

[MathBlade]

In fact Sunday evening after 4 PM PST you are online in greater than 24 hours from this post and I will make an effort if possible to be online then.

Then you will have four posts to type less than 500 words to get stuff off of your chest. You can do everything you want and I will just post a emoticon or something. And if we get a page break even more.

Just right now your case is so fundamentally bad it does us a disservice to discredit it and people’s eyes will gloss over

[MathBlade]

replace out

mastina proves in post 1272 that she didn't bother to read the post before she word checked it.

she refuses to undo the infraction because it would prove she did so upon request.

the game integrity has been compromised and i'll be marking this game as a win.

the game integrity has been compromised and i'll be marking this game as a win.

It shows up as 503 for me

.... And she doesn’t have to.

She is following the rules as she wrote them.

Furthermore I am town. Like wtf?

I came to post to say I got called into work anyway but I guess I don’t have to be on strike at the dot of for anymore.

That being said I don’t think you attack Mastina twice like that if you’re scum. So it’s still Trinity or Hiraki and we win.

[MathBlade]

replace out

mastina proves in post 1272 that she didn't bother to read the post before she word checked it.

she refuses to undo the infraction because it would prove she did so upon request.

the game integrity has been compromised and i'll be marking this game as a win.

the game integrity has been compromised and i'll be marking this game as a win.

It shows up as 503 for me

.... And she doesn’t have to.

She is following the rules as she wrote them.

Furthermore I am town. Like wtf?

I came to post to say I got called into work anyway but I guess I don’t have to be on strike at the dot of for anymore.

That being said I don’t think you attack Mastina twice like that if you’re scum. So it’s still Trinity or Hiraki and we win.

Dunnstral and Math, please just vote so we can get this game over with. Obviously I’d prefer you to vote for Hiraki, as I know I’m not scum, and I think he is, but I’m not sure how to convince you at this point.

@TrinityNZ We have limitless days. There is no reason not to wait on a replacement. Furthermore you seem to be newish to the site. I think no matter your alignment I think you should be working on trying to case or discuss. You say you don’t know how but the first step in doing so is trying.

[MathBlade]

1) Fuzzy looked like he was trying to bait out the cop versus being the cop. His play didn’t jive with any sort of cop play.
2) Pine was being wagoned day two and then fake claimed protective. I had figured out that Army was the protective and tried a fake claim gambit so both would go into night so Evee or I would be killed. No one went along with the “let scum sort it out” which I maintain was smarter.
2) Jingle was pretty much outed before he replaced in and then did a scum tell I have for him. I told him the wrong thing and his response was just god awful.

3) The day evee was lynched is where I would start.

It spews Dunnstral town in my ISO I have quoted why.
Hiraki is also saying Dunn is scum without refuting those points.
Trinity is also refusing to provide content even with repeated poking.

I am thinking scum is a lock in Trinity+Hiraki. I don’t think Lycanfire does what he did as scum and if he did I am gonna pretend we won anyway as attacking Mastina is a pretty low blow.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore both goons have flipped.
More than likely scum wouldn’t have bussed their encryptor day one. So more than likely we are looking for who scum townread or never mentioned. For this reason I am leaning towards the Magna slot since Hiraki is providing content. I find it incorrect content but mainly this game imho is onlock which is why the game is so slow.

[MathBlade]

1) It might just make a difference Trinity. If you suck at explaining yourself then through trying people can go “Hey wait a minute that doesn’t make sense” and then you either reexplain or realize your point doesn’t make sense.

Saying “hey I suck at town so I won’t try” doesn’t help. And that is what it feels like you’re doing.

2) If you are confused by something point it out.

Say in like post 123456 I was confused when you said blah blah blah

We are more experienced players (judging by the join date) so don’t be intimidated by that. The best way to get better is to try.

And if you’re scum (as I think you are) you get better at trying to fake your reads.

So win win

[MathBlade]

Your points are literally "he would NEVER do that"
What should i refute them with then the things I have said??
Just because you're not reasonable to change this game doesn't mean I haven't tried

Yes.

I maintain that scum don’t flagrantly ask their buddies to do something in the main thread when there is an encyptor or day chat unless they are newbs. None of that applies.

Therefore your argument Dunn is scum holds no weight. The burden of proof is on you to prove why Dunn is scum to change my read. So either you have to refute my defense of that, accept it as valid, or provide more evidence in which Dunn is scum.

The person making the extraordinary claim has the burden of proof. Dunn is widely townread. Therefore to assume he isn’t is extraordinary and requires evidence.

[MathBlade]

I found some interesting stuff

Can everyone here point to around 2-4 posts indicating roughly why your reads are the way they are (or more if it requires it, I'm actually not too picky about that) so I can cross-reference with my own thoughts?

The extent of my 'reads' is just a single strong townread and that's not quite enough for me, as well as not being a confident-type read that I'd be willing to lock.

Will do this tomorrow I have the flu

[MathBlade]

Pine you need to get on eevee

I don't vote for people I think are Town, and I don't appreciate the implied threat there.

intent

Pine you need to get on eevee

I don't vote for people I think are Town, and I don't appreciate the implied threat there.

intent

Sigh

You fuckers

I'm the doctor. Back off

not buying it

@Ank I would look here and then MafMen’s (now Trinity’s reaction)

Dunn + Pine doesn’t make sense here. Between the posts that don’t happen with daychat this doesn’t either.

Pine was widely scumread at this point in the game. I don’t see scum going “Hey do intent so we can get the protective out of your lynch”

I was still arguing rather loudly I didn’t think Pine was scum and there was a lot of motion towards other wagons.

There was a lot of wagoning of Eevee (the protective) as well. That helps to influence my read.

Therefore Dunn is a townread. As I said earlier Lycanfire doesn’t throw that hissy fit as scum.

So to me it’s between Trinity and Hiraki and I will respond to the rest of the posts later tonight or tomorrow

[MathBlade]

1) It might just make a difference Trinity. If you suck at explaining yourself then through trying people can go “Hey wait a minute that doesn’t make sense” and then you either reexplain or realize your point doesn’t make sense.

Saying “hey I suck at town so I won’t try” doesn’t help. And that is what it feels like you’re doing.

2) If you are confused by something point it out.

Say in like post 123456 I was confused when you said blah blah blah

We are more experienced players (judging by the join date) so don’t be intimidated by that. The best way to get better is to try.

And if you’re scum (as I think you are) you get better at trying to fake your reads.

So win win

Thanks for the pep talk I will try. Though, throughout the game I have often asked questions, and mostly they haven’t been replied to. For example, why did Jingle self vote?

Nearly all of Lycanfire’s recent posts confused me, I barely understood a sentence in them, and now that he’s gone, I can’t ask him. Why does nobody seem fazed that he suddenly left like that, just for getting a warning? Is that a sign that his slot is the mafia one maybe? I had thought that Lycanfire must be town because surely nobody would put THAT much effort in if they were town, but I could be wrong.

MathBlade, you have looked like scum to me at various points, but I’m still leaning town on you. I might be changing my mind on Hiraki, after doing some ISOs, so that leaves Dunstraal as my scumlean ATM.

People rarely if ever throw fits like that as scum. If he did then I will have to re-evaluate playing with him in the future.

Jingle self voted because it sped up his demise. He was outed wolf. Everything he posted was to put his buddy in a better position.

Effort is also not alignment indicative. Anyone who knows me knows this fact.

And I try to do my best as either alignment and work toward not having meta “tells” as I feel they weaken the game. It’s more I want people to evaluate me as I am now not past me. Do I bring good stuff to the table? The answer is yes.

So what stood out to you in Hiraki’s ISOs?
In general regardless of alignment it is better if you expand on it. You sound really fake without putting in a post or an event that makes you townread Hiraki. It makes me scumread you more.

[MathBlade]

Meh, is it just hiraki?

Would love it if you put in some effort somewhere.

@Ank Are you caught up? I would love to see your thoughts?

[MathBlade]

Vote to implement deadline

Can we have some prods if people? Been Thursday since most posted

[MathBlade]

uh... I forgot about this game

Pine you need to get on eevee

I don't vote for people I think are Town, and I don't appreciate the implied threat there.

intent

Pine you need to get on eevee

I don't vote for people I think are Town, and I don't appreciate the implied threat there.

intent

Sigh

You fuckers

I'm the doctor. Back off

not buying it

@Ank I would look here and then MafMen’s (now Trinity’s reaction)

Dunn + Pine doesn’t make sense here. Between the posts that don’t happen with daychat this doesn’t either.

Pine was widely scumread at this point in the game. I don’t see scum going “Hey do intent so we can get the protective out of your lynch”

I was still arguing rather loudly I didn’t think Pine was scum and there was a lot of motion towards other wagons.

There was a lot of wagoning of Eevee (the protective) as well. That helps to influence my read.

Therefore Dunn is a townread. As I said earlier Lycanfire doesn’t throw that hissy fit as scum.

So to me it’s between Trinity and Hiraki and I will respond to the rest of the posts later tonight or tomorrow

this seems sound on the surface but I'll need to confirm it myself, it's not entirely impossible to me that it was a sort of power play in order to solidify scum's position for later on if Pine was that significantly scumread

Sooooooooo.....

This is a lot of emptiness

Cmon chica what are you thinking?

Between the horrid exchange between the last three people and you’re not taking a stance on anything I am half way tempted to just throw away everything and start fresh.

[MathBlade]

Soooo

Cmon everyone is this game still a thing?

vote deadline

<<< Tag fixed. >>>

[MathBlade]

Just on recent stuff

Trinity looks townish
Mathblade looks townish
Dunnstral and Hiraki both don't look all that great

You’ve had like a week?

I want your thoughts on the whole game or I am removing you from my townreads

[MathBlade]

why is anyone voting for a deadline right now?

Because I want someone besides me posting content.

I had to poke Mastina to prod people twice.

I figured a deadline would make Ank read and we get somewhere

[MathBlade]

I keep forgetting this game is a thing

I'm voting Hiraki, do other people think something else is going to happen?

Yes Trinity.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: TrinityNZ

Ank do something......

[MathBlade]

you're right

deadline was productive

(#4 in 24)

Yup

Gonna be rereading overnight if game continues.

I hope it doesn’t though.

[MathBlade]

I tried being active I just sucked. Only good thing I did was find a Jingle tell

Other than that I read a certain issue that shall not be named WRONG and then that spiraled.

I am sorry to town I am trying to get better.

[MathBlade]

Gg to all