Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)
- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Why?
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I bolded some of the language that pinged me. At this point, it made no sense from a town perspective to hesitantly defend Joral - literally none - and language like "really" and "tbh" suggests that Reality don't believe what they're saying themselves. And when questioned about it, Reality completely ignored me... So I'm happy with where my vote is.
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Why?In post 162, Princess of Renais wrote:i think angel is town- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Why?In post 180, Scioness Sajj wrote:my heart is still with shoshin though- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Why badtown rather than scum?In post 183, the worst wrote:faintly nullish badtown rn across the both heads- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Yeah, they're pretty bad - but why is that town rather than scum?In post 185, the worst wrote:
dem readsIn post 184, Shoshin wrote:
Why badtown rather than scum?In post 183, the worst wrote:faintly nullish badtown rn across the both heads- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Their reads suck, they lack any sort of internal logic, and their play feels passive. You're probably right that I'm distant but don't take that as a scum-tell - I'm guessing it's because I don't know anyone so I'm relating to people as strangers, whereas most others here seem to have some history together.In post 186, Scioness Sajj wrote:i don't really like 145. but since we are speaking is there anything else that you don't like about rc?- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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How have your reads changed since catching up?In post 251, Reality Check wrote:Anyone interested in talking reads? I have fewer strong reads than I'd like after catching up.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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What don't you follow? I explained the vote on Reality but it's obvious nobody wants to pressure them so I'm voting my other suspect. What's confusing about the vote on Sajj? She posts lots of meaningless commentary and doesn't commit to anything.In post 324, Vartsun wrote:...I can't follow your thought process too well with some of these votes.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I don't think scum would boast about how great their reads usually are.In post 320, TPFKAP wrote:Look at my correct % in recent games. I'm done trying to convince you people. My record speaks for itself.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Can you answer my question?In post 341, the worst wrote:
there is madness in my methodIn post 337, Shoshin wrote:the worst, why is Sajj town?- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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If you helped me out, then maybe I wouldn't vote you. But if you're going to obscure your alignment, then I'm going to assume it's because you're scum.
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I disagree. I still have no clue why you read Reality as "badtown" rather than "scum," and you've cluttered the game with tons of pointless posts. I liked your vote on Wheme and that was about it. I've seen scum do exactly what you've done in this game multiple times (including the whole "I'm not going to explain my reads yet because I have plans"), so if that's how you're going to play, I'm going to vote you until I have strong reason to believe you're town. I was hoping your explanation on Sajj would help me read you and her better... but I guess you don't want that?In post 354, the worst wrote:
every other post in my ISO is transparent and conspicuously town motivated. if you get a stick up your ass abt one post which is VERY OBVIOUSLY hinting that I'm planning something with obscuring my read then I can only assume you're scum using an insanely stupid tunnel as a smokescreen.In post 353, Shoshin wrote:If you helped me out, then maybe I wouldn't vote you. But if you're going to obscure your alignment, then I'm going to assume it's because you're scum.
Last edited by RadiantCowbells on Tue May 29, 2018 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Sajj hasn't taken any sort of meaningful position about anyone. Look at 317, for example. Or look at how quickly her push on me evaporated - she had a tone of conviction when pushing but in reality there wasn't anything to it.In post 356, Vartsun wrote:Shoshin, why is Sajj scum to you, again? And if you think the worst is scum off of townreading Sajj, then why are you dropping your attention off of her in pursuit of him?
I'm voting the worst because he's making it more difficult for me to read him and Sajj by refusing to answer my question, plus his "badtown" read on Reality doesn't make any sense.Last edited by RadiantCowbells on Tue May 29, 2018 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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What? I didn't personally insult anyone.In post 363, the worst wrote:Your reaction was closer to personally insulting than valuable for analysis of your alignment.Last edited by RadiantCowbells on Tue May 29, 2018 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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In post 299, the worst wrote:I don't think I've really town told this game
Explain this change, the worst.In post 354, the worst wrote: every other post in my ISO is transparent and conspicuously town motivated.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Not "badtown" anymore? What changed?
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Yes. You don't like the way they're playing, that was obvious before, but why's it suddenly scummy now that they're voting you?In post 408, the worst wrote:Is this a serious question
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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You haven't explained, no. I'm not asking why you think Reality is scum. I'm asking why your reasoning isn't consistent with "badtown."In post 415, the worst wrote:Can you read the last ~25 posts of our mutual ISO and tell me if you don't see where I'm coming from? I've literally explained this.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Did you think Anka was "logical and communicative" earlier in the game when you called him "badtown"?In post 420, the worst wrote:Anka is normally excruciatingly logical and communicative. The fact she is using armchair scumhunting and distancing herself from actually communicating on anything AI is an extremely serious alarm bell in my books.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I got the sense that the worst was pre-inclined to read Reality as town rather than scum and the worst never addressed that concern in his response.In post 433, Vartsun wrote:Why is "this is badtown" indicative of a scum mentality?- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I didn't say you share alignment. Understanding how the worst thinks about the game helps me sort him, and understanding why he town reads you helps me see if I'm missing something about you.In post 504, Scioness Sajj wrote: umm i don't get how exactly knowing why worst is tring me connects to sorting both of us.
why do you think we share alignment?- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I didn't see a strong town read in 317; saying you don't get scum vibes isn't the same as strong town. I'm not in the mood to get into a back-and-forth with you about why I think you're scummy, because even if you're scum it's not like I'm going to convince you of that fact. And I"m surprised you're arguing against the idea that your reads were weak and non-committal when you yourself said hat you didn't even have any strong reads (291's "null zone of fence-y reads").In post 506, Scioness Sajj wrote: um, in 317 i have committed to townreading PoR strongly enough that i won't vote her d1. thought it was pretty clear since it was an answer to vartsun's question. do you have better examples?
i have explained why i didn't actually push you hard, did you miss that post? quote to me that tone of conviction posts, please.
and the most important - explain why all of this is scum indicative.
You expressed conviction on pushing me in 150, 171, 173, and 175. You weren't just voting me, you were actively lobbying for more votes on me.
I think scum tend to play in the way you're playing, expressing weak reads, waiting for a clear direction to develop before committing to anything, and contriving pushes (pushing with a tone of conviction when there isn't any actual conviction makes me feel the entire push was fake). Lots of scum focus on faking a "town tone" but forget that the tone has to actually cohere with what they're doing in the game, and I don't get that sense from you.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I wouldn't have done that because I think it's a legitimate question. It's fine to ignore boring questions that don't actually help sort alignments, but that wasn't my question.In post 507, Scioness Sajj wrote:
assuming he would do that, what would it mean to you?In post 368, Shoshin wrote:I wonder what would have happened if I had refused to answer why I townread TPFKAP... bet the worst would have voted me for it...
If I'd refused to answer and the worst voted me, I'd say it was a valid vote. I certainly wouldn't get upset about it. I'd understand exactly where it came from.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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For the vote on Sajj or Reality?In post 532, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I didn’t like Shosin’s reasons for her vote.- Shoshin
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What's the problem with my reasons? Reality's read felt unnatural and fake (alignment indicative because townies don't fake reads), and the language used ("really" and "tbh") is the sort of language that scum tends to use when expressing fake reads (yes, town use these sorts of qualifiers too, but scum tend to use them more, especially when expressing reads that don't have any basis in the actual game - and that isn't just theory, it's something I've observed quite often when comparing the same player's town/scum game). Do you disagree with me that the read was unnatural (did you town read Joral at that point?)? And what's wrong with my point about language?In post 539, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Reality. However, I’m not clear whether that’s just wrong or scummy. I read the reasons you highlighted as NAI.In post 536, Shoshin wrote:
For the vote on Sajj or Reality?In post 532, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I didn’t like Shosin’s reasons for her vote.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I didn't say I care more about how the worst thinks than others, but at that point in the game, that's who I was interacting with / trying to sort - the worst had asked me a question about one of my reads so I had the worst on my mind as well as my top suspect, Sajj, and I noticed that we had a strong disagreement over Sajj so I asked the worst a question about it so as to better read them both - and it just so happens that the worst chose to deny my attempts to talk with him about the game instead of working with me so that led to a stronger push on him to get some answers.In post 540, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Why are you so concerned with how the worst thinks and reads thing, over any other player in this game?- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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I voted Sajj before the worst - then switched my vote when the worst didn't answer my question.In post 546, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Um, your vote isn’t on Saj, it’s on the worst?- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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You thought my response was a defensive overreaction?In post 550, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I think my assessment of your vote is perfectly valid and you seem a bit too defensive over a completely reasonable assessment. I made it clear that that I wasn’t clear if it was just wrong or scummy. I was leaning in the direction of wrong but your overreaction to my comment is concerning. People make incorrect reads all the time for NAI reasons. I just didn’t see it at all as AI. If I had read your reasoning as scummy, my vote would have been on you not Renais.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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Alright, I think I see what's happening here. My intent wasn't defensive, it was to better understand your thought process, so it felt weird to see you call it a "defensive overreaction" when I didn't feel that way at all - from my perspective it barely felt like I was "reacting" to you, more that I was "hunting." But I reread my post and I see where you get the defensiveness - it's because I went into some detail providing some context for the questions I was asking. I also reread your post and it looks like you might have done something similar - you weren't thinking of yourself as defending yourself but you spent a lot of time overexplaining things in a way that I interpreted as defensive in the context of my attempts to sort you. Our intent was probably equally non-defensive.In post 556, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Are you serious? In what way? I am trying to read you accurately but then you keep making questionable posts like this one. Is SS seeing something I’m not? This post is really pinging me, it almost reads like an OMGUS.Why? Because your post was definitely defensive and I rightly pointed that out. Why you or anyone could possibly view that as in anyway “defensive”, just baffles me tbh. Are you an overly paranoid townie or a defensive wolf?- Shoshin
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I've said other things about Sajj that I find scummy, though I definitely found her actions re: Renais scummy.In post 557, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Well I thought it was based on his defending Renais and townreading her but now you say, it had nothing to do with Rennais. So now, I really don’t get it. If your reasons for voting him have nothing whatsoever do with Renais, then what else could you find possibly suspicious about it?In post 555, Shoshin wrote:What do you think about the reasons I voted Sajj?- Shoshin
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I bolded the parts that I interpreted as defensive.In post 550, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:I don’t disagree that language can’t be AI but I really didn’t see the language Reality employed in that post as AI and I was townleaning Jorei at that point and I still am.I think my assessment of your vote is perfectly validand you seem a bit too defensive over a completely reasonable assessment.I made it clear that that I wasn’t clear if it was just wrong or scummy.I was leaning in the direction of wrong but your overreaction to my comment is concerning.People make incorrect reads all the time for NAI reasons. I just didn’t see it at all as AI. If I had read your reasoning as scummy, my vote would have been on you not Renais.- Shoshin
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Shoshin Jack of All Trades
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lol yeah you thought I'd scumread you for that? I'm not that bad at mafia, I'm just trying to sort you and I appreciate that you're actually answering my questions because I feel like we're finally getting somewhere in this game.In post 563, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
Alright. Lol. Did you catch my inclusion of the tbh and bolding it? I deliberately put that in to see if you’d scumread me for it. I’m feeling a lot better about you now.In post 559, Shoshin wrote:
Alright, I think I see what's happening here. My intent wasn't defensive, it was to better understand your thought process, so it felt weird to see you call it a "defensive overreaction" when I didn't feel that way at all - from my perspective it barely felt like I was "reacting" to you, more that I was "hunting." But I reread my post and I see where you get the defensiveness - it's because I went into some detail providing some context for the questions I was asking. I also reread your post and it looks like you might have done something similar - you weren't thinking of yourself as defending yourself but you spent a lot of time overexplaining things in a way that I interpreted as defensive in the context of my attempts to sort you. Our intent was probably equally non-defensive.In post 556, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Are you serious? In what way? I am trying to read you accurately but then you keep making questionable posts like this one. Is SS seeing something I’m not? This post is really pinging me, it almost reads like an OMGUS.Why? Because your post was definitely defensive and I rightly pointed that out. Why you or anyone could possibly view that as in anyway “defensive”, just baffles me tbh. Are you an overly paranoid townie or a defensive wolf? - Shoshin
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