Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Lefty

First?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am indeed a teacher and Performer you have a great memory -I don't think that's something we spoke of recently?

Also, this Lefty wagon looks great huh? More people should join.

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But I don't want to be the counter-wagon.

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That's actually pretty flattering Performer but we can talk more about that post-game!

Unfortunately, secret alts are all over the place. I'd sooner policy lynch em all!

So, how about that Lefty wagon?

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How about it?

I'd like it to take off and potentially lead to a lynch.

Thoughts on that?

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Hmm, should I give reason for the Lefty wagon?

Nah, I'm good. Let's just do it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, you have to say that so...do you suggest someone better to wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Byron and Invisibility could be interesting in this game.

I'm not a big fan of Invisibilities posting so far.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

wondering if invisibility is just trying to LOOK town or not.

This is a good post.

Random wagoning is all good and fine. I was just seeing what BBT had to say since they pushed it several times

I don't have much else to say on your wagon - but with the current gamestate I am even more inclined to push you now.

Im actually kind of inclined to agree. Last time I played with Town!BBT, they pushed a mislynch (me, grrrr) several times, but at least provided reasoning.

VOTE: BBT.

BBT - strongest scum/town read, why, and +rand on it?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here and I'm not sure whether this vote is serious or not. I feel like it is?

Those are also bad questions as well for page 4.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That sums it up pretty well yeah. Saved me having to explain it as well.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What I'm doing is most definitely not bad - if I wasn't doing what I am doing then we would have nothing to talk about for a start.

It's nothing you have done that makes me think you could be scum if that helps at all.

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There may be something that tells me you're town - but I want to ignore it for now.

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What do you think of the wagon on me?

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Serious vote alert. We have a serious vote.

Shit's about to go down.

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TChill is town - seeing the same things I am with regards to teacher and invisibility.

I actually think Lefty is newb town - scum tend to shy away from addressing their wagons (and potentially inviting direct confrontation) and try to look unbothered about being pushed. I guess Lefty could be over reacting scum but it doesn't feel like that to me.

VOTE: teacher

I don't think Gosrir is scum - I could see Bryan though.

Teacher/Invisibility/Bryan is my early guess and bragging rights post-game

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The voters on the Performer, Gustavo and Garmr wagons should choose between myself and teacher.

Those are the two wagons of choice (hint: choose teacher!) Let's go!

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Shush Bryan.

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Yo Bryan,

If I wanted to hide the information - why would I reveal that I have it? Why wouldn't I just say 'I see no reason that he is town?'

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I second Gustavo's question.

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And again, you would not have known I was 'witholding' informationa had I not stated it openly in a post.

Stop surface level reading and learn to Mafia bro.

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Wave, can you talk about Byron and Invis being in your town reads please?

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You're missing the point Byron.

If I wanted to hide/withhold information - why would I state that I am hiding/withholding information? Instead of just hiding/withholding the information without explicitly stating that I am doing so.

Last time I'm asking this before I conclude you're scum who doesn't want to backtrack on a read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, so if you can't discern an alignment from that post then I'm gonna need to know why you're voting me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah OK. Attitude doesn't make someone scum so you're gonna have to try harder than that.

Thanks for response Wave, I disagree with reasoning on Invis vote as I could easily see it being qualified as RVS.

I disagree on Byron as well - this feels like scum who don't want to backtrack on a read. Trying to stay consistent/how they think they would act as town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't lose anything - but I don't gain anything either so...meh.

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Byron trying way too hard to sound town there.

Is it really this easy.

Teacher/Byron/???

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Invis talk about that vote.

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Umm, what happened to the teacher wagon?

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He made a boo boo when he voted me.

You already know I'm not willing to discuss things with you Gus for reasons I have stated in the past.

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Well I’m fine with either wagon but for now I’d rather go with performer.

Why were you asking for a case if you're fine with the wagon anyway?

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Lefty talk about your teacher read please.

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Byron, why the change?

Has your read on me changed or is the read on Invis stronger?

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Why? What would that achieve?

I feel like that was a 'look busy' question - the answer clearly does not matter to you.

PEdit - Lefty, which people do you think teacher pushed and can you show examples of this please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Page 11 and I'm still struggling for town reads.

Sad times.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Gustavo

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That's a strange post from GEO and I'm not sure what to make of it.

I feel like it's pretty bad that he attempted to apply pressure on me (when I was the leading wagon) but now that it's dissolved he kind of just dismissed it as nothing. Usually I would scum read that but the 'panicked and pressured' part feels genuine and something I don't think scum would say.

I also don't think scum now joins the teacher wagon after it has died. But his read on BV doesn't make sense as BV has now switched wagons (which GEO expected scum!BV to do) but he town reads him for it.

So like, yeah, can someone help me with that post?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I expected an earlier correction. He spent too much time in that awkward position to be scum.

That doesn't really answer my statement regarding your BV read. He still changed the read when pressure subsided.

Also, what was awkward about his position?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The problem is I haven’t actually done any of that which means you scum read me because I called out bad play, something that you admitted town and scum can do. If town and scum can do something that makes it a null act or non alignment indicative.

Ah, but herein lies the problem. Scum and town can do ANYTHING - I don't think there is anything that is exclusively alignment indicative. Therefore, the actual job of town is to decide whether something is MORE/LESS likely to come from town/scum and go from there.

Your play feels very robotic in this game. Not a fan at all.

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The whole 'meta post' was an attempt to attack/discredit me, no?

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It could have.

But it felt more like an attack/angle to start pushing me from at the time.

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Invis, real quick;

Thoughts on teacher, Gus and GEO?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That wasn't really helpful;

Fluff

Fluff

Disliking of fluff

Vote.

Think I summed that post up pretty well?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think you're wrong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Let's do this then

VOTE: Invis

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Gus, can you explain your push on Performer please?

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Haha, well played Gus.

TChill - 1 and probably 1 (possibly 2 but not enough info)

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What's way too easy? Do you hold all players to a high standard when it comes to playing as scum?

I really dislike that - it's almost like 'too scummy to be scum'. Sometimes, games are just that easy and everything gets over thought clouding out the simple conclusions.

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I also think Lefty is town - but could easily see Byron and Invis as scum.

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Yeah, I'm pretty much synced with TChill here outside of 1 or two reads.

Realy would like to see more from GEO in particular.

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Is it bad that I town read Wave?

I don't know whether I should be. But I am.

So, yeah. Gonna put that out there.

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If I look at it from your perspective, I can kind of see where you're coming from but I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion of Invis being less likely to be scum because of it.

Low effort townies are a thing and bussing is also a thing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, it's a weak accusation, sure. But why does it make him scum?

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If I look at it from your perspective, I can kind of see where you're coming from but I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion of Invis being less likely to be scum because of it.

Low effort townies are a thing and bussing is also a thing.

To clarify this, I'm saying that basing a read (or majority of read in your case) on unflipped wagon composition seems like bad play to me.

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gus vs lefty made we feel a little worse about lefty

Where did this come from?

And does anyone see in this post what I see in it (hint: timing)

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I like aggressive players.

What I meant by that comment is I feel like you're quite an emotional player - but your playstyle/posting this game isn't matching that at all (except maybe your push on performer which you have clearly taken exception to).

Even when I naked voted you and antagonized you, you kind of just side-stepped me. I don't think you would do that as town.

PEdit - Nope TChill - I don't think a Lefty wagon is even remotely possible at this point. That's your second hint.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Invis, talk about how Lefty is looking worse from the Gus convo?

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active lurking would be my second guess? refusal to participate in discussion but will comment when its over.

There was talk between Lefty/Gus about going against the grain/targeting easy players and how it makes you town/scum.

Then Invis comments and is like 'Oh yeah, Lefty looks bad from that Gus convo' when I don't think a single person (at least not active) is scum reading Lefty.

Was Invis making an attempt to go against the grain to look town?

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TChill - tell me you still think Invis is town.

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GEO - you don't think scum do what BV did? Kind of push someone but not push them enough so they are in the spotlight upon the flip?

For example, let's just say that the BV push had picked up steam but it was someone else who used BVs post as the catalyst to push me. They continue to push me and lynch me and thus the spotlight falls on the person who drove the wagon to lynch - not the person who planted the seed.

There is a proverb for this I'm sure but can't think of it to save my life.

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Let's say BV had got the better of the BV vs BBT discussion -is he still the creepy guy on the wagon?

Or is he only the creepy guy on the wagon because I exposed his push as being what it was - awful.

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Did he not double down on the push by continuing to push it over the next page or two?

You're arguing that he didn't continue the push and did continue the push at the same time. They can't both be true.

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@BBT: I don't think I understand the question.

What I'm saying is if the push on me had been successful would he still be the creepy guy on the wagon or would you have had a different perception of him?

I'm saying he is only seen as the creepy on the wagon because I exposed his push as being bad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

At which point he decided to leave it and move onto pastures new (despite the read only changing slightly [his words]).

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Well, if you believed in the read you had, what does it matter?

Unless you're saying you're entire read on me was 'I don't like this guy so he has to be scum'?

PEdit - Above @BV

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Fuck me wave that's a bad reads list. I don't even know where to start.

Also, can someone talk to me about the Performer wagon because I don't get it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yet you retained the read.

How are you planning on lynching scum!BBT playing in this way?

PEdit - Above @BV.

Will reread that now Wave.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, 211 doesn't read badly to me at all but I understand the 'game narration' comment. There is a lot of that in the post but it is mixed with some reads/thoughts as well.

I don't have a strong enough reason to town read Performer (and thus fight his wagon) but that post isn't enough for me to understand how he is the leading wagon either. He needs to get in this game so we can get more from him.

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Nos, talk about your Performer read?

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He did. He said he saw that I thought Byron was scum but didn't see why.

Is that your only (and thus best) reasoning for what is your top scum read on page 17?

Or you got something else to share?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

performer is my top scumread?

I didn't know that

I mean, you're sitting on his wagon as he is a leading candidate for lynch and showing no signs of going elsewhere.

Am I missing something?

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Right, and by leaving it there you're endorsing the wagon and saying you have no better place for your vote.

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Nay.

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I mean, I'm not protecting anyone.

I'm trying to understand how someone with 5(?) posts can possibly be a leading wagon on page 18 of a game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And that's the best reason that 4 people have in this game for their top scum read at this stage? Nah, fuck that shit, scum are all over this.

PEdit - Thoughts on Gus and BV jumping all over it?

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Its day 1. That’s exactly the kind of person that’s acceptable to lynch day 1 especially when their content is not town

No, it isn't. We lynch scum, and we lynch scum who actually have content to analyze.

Performer either steps his shit up or he gets replaced. Lynching him D1 is sub-optimal play at the very least.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't have an issue with Performer - I have an issue with the wagon. I'm saying Performer won't be able to continue in this vain.

I'm saying there are other ways of sorting low content posters if it does stay that way.

I'm saying lynching Performer D1 is sub-optimal play (almost regardless of alignment) because we have nothing else to work with atterwards. I'm saying that anyone who is town on that wagon needs to seriously question the motives/reasons behind it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

People can't be voting Performer based on his content because he's hardly produced anything and what he has produced isn't half as bad as some of the shit in this game.

So they're voting him for lurking or they're voting him as LHF. There is no way anyone on that wagon can justify a scum read and if you're town on that wagon at this stage of the game you should be ashamed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Low hanging fruit - essentially an easy/achievable lynch.

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The intention is clearly there and now I have kicked up a fuss about it nobody will be leaving is easily/quietly.

I have forced people on the wagon to defend their position on it. They had the chance to get off - and didn't take it. Now they're committed.

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@Gus - Nos already defended his position on the wagon and has chose to stay on it.

Only TChill left to speak to.

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Umm, yeah they do.

People get lynched on Page 1. What a ridiculous comment to make.

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Phone posting so apologies if this comes off horribly.
i have no reason to. here's the thing. would you consider that to be good scum play from invis?[/quote]
Does it matter whether it is good or bad scum play? It's just scum play all the same.

Ok so I guess that’s 3 content related reasons. Your objection to it is unjustified

TChill, tell me you're reading this. 3 people want to lynch Performer based on his CONTENT. Please get off that wagon and join mine.

Gus, you can't have content related reasons after 5 posts. It's absurd.

do you suppose we let him slide through d1?

I suppose we play more optimally and lynch someone with content to analyze. Not someone with 5 posts in the entire game, give him time and see what happens.

this is a red flag. Why would they look suspicious? if they're on the wagon for any reason other than to get content that reason IS A LIE.

When i'm fine with the content i'll make my decision to get off or not.

I feel like you're not reading the game properly when I see comments like this. Gus has fully defended his position as being based on content, as has Wave. Nos refused to leave the wagon despite claiming that Peformer isn't even his top scum read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nearly finished compiling my thoughts of BBT (which took me like 2 hours to with the content his posted.) But what I noticed is, how much of a struggle it's to get a Invisibility lynch; (Maybe I should be pushing harder admittedly) despite nearly no one town reading him and people disliking his content. It's feels like it's been a slow grind compared to other wagons that pop up in a flash.


Anyone want to give me reasoning as to why he shouldn't be lynched Today?

Good posting!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Talk about going after low hanging fruit.

In what world is GEO LHF?

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Wave's 524 is a good post on Tommy - I hadn't picked up on any of that.

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he's also flopping more than scum typically do

but meh

Yeah, I was starting to think this as well. Feels too fluid to be scum.

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Gaining more town reads now and PoE pool is narrowing (finally!). Almost ready for this day to end (too many pages for my liking but I suspect that might largely be my fault!)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Geo

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Performer is for sure LHF, I don't think teacher was and I don't think Invis is either.

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They both think Performers 211 is the worst post in the entire game.

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I do want lurking to be dealt with - Performer is hardly a lurker in this game. The game is just moving at a ridiculous pace and so it appears he is lurking when actually he just isn't as active as the rest of us.

He also has not shown himself to be scum. I'll wait for a case if you have one though?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prodge.

Sorry guys, hectic couple of days and now I'm ever so slightly drunk! Will het around to reading this game tomorrow and getting shit done.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

While I'm here, why not! Beware, I'm phone posting!

i think that gustavo is town for his "stubbornness" for lack of a better word

Why do you think stubborness is more likely to come from town than scum?

Invis is objectively the best lynch imo.

I got cold feet on this - he is flip flopping too much to be scum IMO.

Invis/teacher/tommy/performer/gosrir are in my should be dealt with pool.

Invis and Performer can be removed from this pool. I'm good with any of the other 3 though (Tommy isn't a great lynch but I skinmed his catch up and me no likey.) I'm reluctant to lynch on a catch up though as I generally don't like em anyway, so we can give him time for some real time posting.

Invis/teacher wpuld be great though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't even know what that last paragraph is meant to say - I wanted to remove Tommy from lynch pool but didn't like catch up.

Invis stays in lynch pool!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks. FWIW, youve moved into a townread. I especially appreciaed the unstructured notes becuase it helped me see how you think, and I could evaluate it against the more structured posts. If you managed to draft that for that effect as scum - well done.

Aw man, I really dislike this post - scum!teacher buddying town!Garmr? All those words and not much said.

If the performer wagon wouldn't have stalled like it has I would think pretty clearly that invis is scum. I feel pretty good that performer maybe scum.

I'm gonna go ahead and take credit for stalling that Performer wagon (y'all can thank me post game when you see he is town)

(or hate me if he is scum!)

As a general rule I don't really join a wagon cause its my top scumread, generally weigh each scum read equally in that I don't care which one gets lynched first. That's not to say there's not an order, but I don't really have a strict order as to my scumreads right now.

I'm not voting GEO for that bad post in the past nor am I voting him for any new reasons. It's a pressure vote to help sort. Questioning him is unnecessary.

Umm, who are your scum reads?

Also, saying you"re applying pressure with a vote kind of relieves the 'pressure' you're supposed to be applying.

^ I agree with Nos on that irt the Performer wagon. BBT essentially made that untouchable and the fact no one has touched it since reinforces that I think both Peformer and BBT are Town.

Lefty knows his shit.

I’m officially more open to the idea that Teacher could be scum.

GLGL

Yaaaasssss!

Like Invis just strikes me as a player who reads stuff and says whatever comes to mind at the time and nothing more.

Yep, and this gave me cold feet on the wagon. It just seems too fluid/genuine/chaotic to be scuk.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is anyone here to talk?

I really think we should have had an L-1 and a claim at this point in the game. This is taking too long and we're gonna end up scrambling for deadline lynch.

Let's get something moving.

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Boys, Performer just told me he is town. I'm much more confident that Performer is town just based on one oost that is too long to quote in a phone!

The problem is that's easy to fake as scum, along with the opportunistic vote he made.

I disagree - I actually think it's quite difficult for scum to play the way Invis is and make it look genuine.

Lefty and bbt

So anyone that disagrees with what you say? AmIRite?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Then you lie. Or withhold information.

Unless you're scum, then you can just spout some shit that you think will look town.

Who are your scum reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wanna wait for an updated VC and we'll go from there.

Prob looking to lynch in teacher/GEO/Byron. Would compromise on Invis/Tommy.

I think that's where I'm at Today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Invis

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I'm good with an Invis lynch.

Final reads Invis?

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A vanity wagon at this point isn't much use Lefty.

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Why not?

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Right, but that has nothing to do with Invis.

What is your read on him?

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I didn't want a long day - I never do. 20 pages is usually more than enough for me D1.

I don't like that wishy-washy read from you on Invis. You wrote 6 lines and I still don't know what your read on Invis is.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If I don’t scum read him but don’t town read him, common sense would mean what?

How was I supposed to know you were not town reading him?

Why don't you have a read on someone who has been integral to almost everything D1?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Byron

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If Byron is scum doesn't make sense to unvote invisibility here.

@bbt

Not saying I entirely disgaree, but why not? I could see scum!Byron unvoting here.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because we have a claim and scum can try and run someone else up. There is no certainty that if Invis isn't the lynch it will fall on Byron.

Not to mention that Byron's 'I like Invis' latest posts' was a load of shit. Looks like overjustification for leaving a wagon. How can he like Invis' latest posts?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why isn't that scum giving up?

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I mean after the claim.

The claim is the last ditch attempt to save themselves. After that, it's YOLO. Give away the least amount of information as possible.

I think I asked Invis for reads. If town, why would you not make that your priority. Why 'lol' post instead?

I refuse to believe you can town read Invis off of his posting after his claim.

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Invis, reads?

PEdit - How long ago where those reads? He was threatened with hammer and instead of giving town information he just lol posts.

Tell me how that comes from town. I'll wait.

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I mean, he gave reads on 6 people - wow I guess? The read on me isn't a read and he includes himself in the 'rest' of people he needs to produce reads for.

BV just tried to misrep me there as well.

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i stop taking things seriously when i'm about to die?
BBT you were in Mini 2012

You would do this as either alignment, no?

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Something real fishy is going on and if anybody wants to flash wagon Byron or Gus I'm absolutely 100% interested in doing that.

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Also yeah Invis you mind finishing up those reads? I'm interested in your reads right now, especially because hammer could be approaching and I feel like seeing all your reads pre-flip could be very useful for us.

Byron asking this right after attacking my own post right along thesl same lines is pretty funny.

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I've just told you.

Were you not reading?

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VOTE: Invis

Finally.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Final reads Invis? If you're town, help.

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VOTE: Aristo

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I thought the same - but it was hard to get a read on Gus so I'm treating it like a new opportunity.

PEdit - It's hard to say. Gus slinking onto the wagon didn't feel good though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think a max of 2 on the wagon (more likely to be 1 IMO) and it's in Tommy/GEO/Aristo.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm good with Garmr, Lefty, TChill and Performer as town.

Nos and Wave COULD be town but I'm not sold on those reads yet.

Which leaves Tommy, Aristo, GEO, teacher and Byron. There is at least 2 scum in that pool and as always someone has got me fooled and it will turn out that one of my strongest townreads is in fact scum.

But for now, lynch pool is Tommy, GEO, Aristo, teacher and Byron. With outside chance of Nos or Wave if someone provides a good case.

Now that I'm looking at that I haven't got as good of a handle on this game as I thought I did. Is it only me struggling for town reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you had read the game you would have seen how strongly Gus felt about NOT joining the Invis wagon despite not being able to come up with clear reasons for why (except 'I'm death tunneling Performer and will not vote anyone else')

His change of vote with no explanation doesn't look right to me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, if you have something to offer, I'm all ears.

What are your thoughts on the game?

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I think one because of how long the wagon took to actually achieve a lynch (plus I think the wagon was town driven and thus scum would not feel the need to get on to help it.)

If you think two is more likely, who and why?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It would also require scum to vote consecutively which doesn't usually happen either.

Scum!Tommy, Town!Gus/Aristo, Scum!GEO would be something to consider though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No surprise that your two choices are town. I made the Performer wagon a no-go because he made it clear to me he was town. And before he did that people were trying to lynch him based purely on lurking whilst stating awful reasons to try and justify it.

I think only TChill said he was trying to gain information/force involvement. Gus, Nos and Wave (?) all tried to justify their position on the wagon as if Performer (with 5 posts) was the scummiest scummer to ever scum. That's not happening whilst I'm around.

Am I scum based purely on a pre-flip association with Performer or is there more?

Also, why is Performer scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Forgot about BV's bullshit read on Invis.

Might lynch him today.

What felt off about the push to you?

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Lack of reason to unvote? The action itself would appear townie (a reason in itself?), I agree. But the reasons behind it are shaky as hell.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The issue I have about bbt is that he's always been hard to read, even moreso on day 1. I can't figure out if his posts overall are coming from town or from scum. Still, I have him on null because his play is always so difficult to ascertain alignment on.

This tells me that Performer is town. I think scum!Performer just lumps me in with his town reads as I doubt it would even be questioned. However, he shows that he is town in that he is not willing to just throw a town read at me, despite me being widely town read, and is more concerned with how difficult he perceives me to be to read. It shows a townie thought process in that he isn't giving me the benefit of the doubt despite my standing in the game.

I find it hard to believe you have a null read on me given the content I have produced in this game. I think I'm a fairly polarizing player regardless of alignment and null reads always ping me. What don't you understand in what I have done/am doing? Your reasons for scum reading myself and Performer are very surface level and thus poor.

I just explained why above. And answering a question with a question is scummy as shit. Why does defensiveness = scum? Why can't town be defensive? What exactly feels forced about his progression on Byron and what is the scum motivation behind doing it?

PEdit - The second part of Byron's post doesn't make sense with the first. They're almost contradicting each other. That's a bad post.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Byron

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The above post should be analyzed and scrutinized by someone that isn't me because it's awful in so many ways. It's also flat out false.

I'll wait to see what happens next.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BV, who is the scum that vote parked on Invis early on?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I wonder if anyone will see what I can see.

I'm getting excited.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

nail in the coffin that pushes him further down for me is him being one of three people who avoided the invis wagon and me leaning town on the other two

Good posting, but...

There were 4 people who avoided the Invis wagon - Nos, teacher, Lefty and Byron. Can you just clarify who you're talking about in relation to your reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You. I think you put your vote on the wagon to give it some steam, went off on GEO on a bit when the wagon wasn't progressing as you were expecting, and then when the wagon was getting into lynch territory you hopped back on to secure the lynch.

Ah, so you think there were two scum on the wagon and I'm both of them.

That's an interesting theory.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So you're working from the theory that you think is less likely? That makes sense...

Can we lynch BV now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because he is trying to justify a scum read (his primary scum read) with bad reasoning.

He is saying anything that fits with his narrative of scum!BBT to try and push my lynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Man, I really wanna join that shiny teacher wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have? Show me where I have contradicted myself in order to push your lynch.

Show me where I have stated flat out false information to push your lynch.

I'll wait.

Also, just to clarify. I'm not saying that contradictions = scum. I'm saying that the way in which BV is trying to force his scum read on me with the reasoning he is using is not indicative of a townie thought process.

PEdit - Above is to BV.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

as others have mentioned, BV didn't avoid being on the wagon, he hopped off it once it was at L-1

With super bad reasoning. That made no sense.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Except you are?

You're working from your least likely theory and stating false information about me to try and push a wagon on me.

You're doing exactly that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can someone else tell me why teacher is a good lynch? Lefty or chill for instance?

I don't like byron's sudden tr on invis on d1, ending with his unvote.

You know, I was looking back at teacher to try and remember why I was scum reading him and outside of his poor early questioning and buddying of Garmr, I can't really remember why. Yet, I still feel good that teacher flips scum. I've got a feeling I've been influenced by other people's posts who I've been townreading and that is where the strength of read came from. Gonna have to look into this when I get some time.

Believe it or not, Byron's unvote on Invis is getting him townreads and it absolutely blows my mind.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1.scum reads seem to follow general consensus.

2.Spent most of day 1 costing

3.A lot of his posts are just filler, Look at post 222 it adds nothing to the game and makes him look like his doing something.

4.Post like 484 seem to lack drive he doesn't captalise on it. In fact if you read through his iso. He doesn't really push anything to get information out of it.

5. Put himself in a position where he could lynch invis if he wanted to but waited to see how people would react. Was online for role reveal didn't put his thoughts down on invisible wagon. Put in a fluffy statement anyone could of made. Nos also made it clear that invis was a scum read early so I would think he would at least have a reaction to invi being lynched.

Question to you name a time when he actually furthered the game state or got information out of a push we otherwise wouldn't of got.

This is a good post. A couple of questions;

I'm not sure if 1 is true - do you have examples of this? 2 is good (though there are other people coasting as well), 3 is also true but I'm not sure filler = scum.

4 and your final point I really like - there doesn't seem to be any drive from Nos to do anything. No pushes on scum reads, no collaboration with town reads, doesn't bring new information to the game. This is the main reason I like this post - could easily see scum playing in this way.

Can you elaborate on 5? I need to go back and see what Nos' reactions were around the Invis wagon (phone posting atm) but again, as your point states, I don't remember Nos having much involvement with it. He kind of just let it happen.

VOTE: wavemode

Why?

I am starting to feel like I'm on an island in how I see the byron v bbt case.

Elaborate?

VOTE: Nos

My points from d1 still stand.

This could be sticky scum.

0 reevaluating and if Nos is town I think it's an easy push for scum to make.

I'm getting scum tingles from garmr

Why? I'm not getting that at all.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

i want both of yall to be town.

Byron because of his unvote d1. BBT because of his style.

If im FORCED to choose scum between yall i'd have to choose BBT. For future reference.

Town reading Byron because of his unvote is absurd. Scum do it all the time to avoid being on a wagon that goes to lynch. Nobody but Invis was getting lynched, it was safe to jump off and allow the lynch to go through.

Look at his reasoning for jumping off - it reeks of scum with TMI. He cites Invis' posting at L-1 as the reason and yet all Invis did was 'lol' post. Like, how am I the only person seeing this?

of course OMGUS makes byron look terrible there.

You seem to have numerous reasons for scum reading Byron and yet the only thing you have for town reading him is his unvote.

Why does that one action take precedence over everything else you have said in this game?

why is byron getting pushed?>

BBT and LEfty specifically.

what does scum have to gain from unvoting a mislynch there when it was very possible if the invis wagon died then byron would be lynched? byron is practically conftown because of that. If he's scum then great play. I don't think he's capable of that though.

Firstly, you need to reread your own posts - you have posted numerous reasons throughout the game for Scum!Byron. Yet, the unvote seems to trump everything and I don't understand why.

There is no guarantee that Byron would have been the lynch if not Invis. Show me that was the case.

Did you read Byron's posting at start of D2 as well? It's really bad with regards to his push on me and I'm astounded that you seem to have completely ignored it.

Teacher is looking like scum here imo.

Talk about this TChill?

i'd like to know where ppl stand on byron and nos specifically.

Byron scum and Nos more likely scum than not. I'm struggling because Byron/Nos/Tommy can't all be scum. That would mean all scum avoided the Invis wagon. So I'm very likely wrong on two of these.

Tommy voting Nos is also unlikely to be scum/scum and between the two I would say Nos is more likely to flip scum. So l'm gonna put Tommy in the town pile for today and see what happens.

Snip.

Yeah, this is good posting.

So nothing was wrong with my invisibility vote in your own words. So what are the scum tingles from??? Is it because I pushed nos just now.Sounds kinda like a chainsaw.

@BBT are you 100% sure tchill is town.

I felt really good about TChill on D1 because we were on the exact same page. Start of D2 though and the disagreement on Byron has me worried. Either way, I'm not even entertaining the thought of scum!TChill today. He stays in my town pile. If Byron flips scum though, this read 100% gets reevaluated.

Nothing was wrong with your invisibility vote because I was trying to get invisibility lynched. If I feel scum was on invisibility it would have to be you that were most likely scum to me atm.

Really? From your perspective Garmr is scum over Performer, GEO and Aristo? That's incredible.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hmm, I made a mistake, Tommy was on the Invis wagon.

I feel like my head is all over the place at the moment - really struggling to nail down reads. I started the day wanting to lynch from the Invis wagon but I think I now actually want to lynch off it.

Gonna spend some time today getting my reads together and then deciding what I want to do.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don’t think Garmr is scum. He’s been bringing it every time he posts.

I think BV is getting more credit than deserved for unvoting on a ML that was ~more than likely going through anyway. I wanna reread them in ISO but outside of the BBT interaction early inn D1 I don’t really think they look super Townie.

I really don’t have an issue with Nos. I’d like to hear the reasons for the Teacher wagon. GEO looks like scum to me. I’d be down to lynch them.

Still want to reread but I don’t know when that’ll happen.

Finally! Byron is being town read solely on his unvote and it's unnerving as fuck. I think Garmr's case on Nos is pretty decent, you read it?

If he's scum that's completely opposite of the "inexperienced" vibe I'm getting from Byron.

What makes you think he is inexperienced?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's 2:47am here and I'm a little tired.

Had a quick skim but need to read properly tomorrow morning to respond to shit. Will prob do it after the England match.

Nos wagon looks good though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This is baffling to me. Scum wants to be able to push a mislynch later, which they can do by nulling a spot that they have already buddied. I just don’t buy this explanation regardless of your alignment.

I'm not sure what baffles you? Which part of my explanation did you not understand? I don't think scum!Performer ever tries to push my lynch - I think he town reads me and then kills me. That was my whole point. He has no reason to pretend not to have a read on me as scum.

And I cant believe I have to explain this to you, since I learned it from this site, but defensiveness is scummy because townies know mislynches will happen and are more concerned with solving the game. Performer's progression on Byron (towning him more over the course of D1) seems fake because Byron went from active and town (through the 200s) to lurking (200-500) (at least until the EoD voteswitch). I dont see how in the 500s Performer could say his play had gotten better over the course. As for scum motivation, buddying? blending in? Being seen to be solvey?

Wrong - defensiveness is not scummy. It's a playstyle thing. Some people are defensive regardless of alignment, some people are not defensive regardless of alignment and SOMETIMES in the right context defensiveness is scummy. But to make a blanket statement/read like that is flat out wrong.

I mean, Performer explained why his read on Byron changed. Is there something you don't like about it in particular rather than just throwing out these blanket statements? When you're explaining scum motivation you're using blanket statements again - are you saying everytime someone town reads someone else they're buddying them? Why would Performer be 'buddying' BV?

er, that i townlean on someone does not mean they are definitely town...

This is a bad, bad post.

I was skimming back through teacher's ISO, he voted bbt, gustavo, said I'm scummy. wave said teacher is scummy and said the other folks (other than byron) - lefty & nos, were also his tr. So I'm starting to think teacher is the way to vote. What's the vc right now though?

Walk me through how this leads to a teacher scum read?

The issue is I still have you at null, which is not that surprising because you have been pushing for my tr deaths. First asking people to get on lefty, later voting gustavo slot, , saying gustavo slot is still scummy on d2, and now voting byron.
Also, I completely expected you to die on n1 but you are alive, so I have been growing paranoid as to why you're alive. When we played in a mini normal a couple years ago, you died immediately on n1, and we were both town. So, I am going to lose my mind .

@TChill I think you, nos, lefty, byron, and tommy (slight tr) were on my tr side. I moved garm to null because of his push on nos, which has been interesting to say the least.

Lefty was super early and yeah, that's looking like it was a bad read. Lefty is now one of my strongest town reads. I'm not sure how you're town reading the Gus slot, that could very easily be scum.

Walk me through your Byron, Nos and Tommy town reads?

I can understand you would paranoid about me, and I would say this as either alignment, but the fact that nobody died means a number of things could have happened. Most notably, and most likely, scum tried to kill a widely read town player and town tried to protect a widely read town player. This shouldn't taint your read on me in anyway.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@all:I asked about Tommy because he's the one who originally pushed Nos, so I'd really like to consider him, Garmr & Nos together right now. I got the impression the previous that many of you were townreading Tommy. Why?

I don't know what you're trying to say here? Are you saying these 3 are all scum together? If not, what are your reads on each of them?

901 gives me a pretty good townread on teacher.

bbt is reading a bit off. why are we trying to analyze a d1 wagon on a townflip? we have basically no info and the wagon was only at half until like, hours before the hammer, and it seemed everyone agreed it was destined to happen. i don't see any way we can glean information from it. and it feels like you're analyzing the wagon as a whole and making your predetermined reads fit rather than actually analyzing it or the play and timing of those on it.

I'm sorry, what? Why would you NOT analyze a D1 wagon; it's pretty standard. Regardless of flips, wagons hold a lot of information. That looks like a bad attempt to discredit my scum hunting.

Give me examples of me 'analyzing wagon to make predetermined reads fit' because without anything to back that up you're just throwing out random statements which make it impossible for me to defend myself against. I have also discussed the timing and play of those around the wagon so that statement is flat out false. Have you seriously still not read the game?

Show me where i'm coasting scum. I said earlyish in d1 that it started at a bad time for me, came in for my catch up on the day i'd set for it then was active until day end. Being busy in real life does not equal scum.

Couple of things; how do you show somebody they're 'coasting scum?' Also, I don't recall you ever having an active period in this game. You've kind of always been on the periphery which makes it very difficult to read you and makes it more likely that you're scum.

Easy push? At the time of my vote the only other person with a public scum read on Nos in the game was Garmr. What is there to re-evaluate apart from wagon composition. There was no night kill and we mislynched town my scum reads are still the same at the moment.

Yeah, easy push. If Nos is town, he is one of the easiest people in this game to try and push a wagon on from scum's perspective - he has shown no intentions of pushing people, he doesn't seem to be trying to sort/form reads, he isn't one of the most active/louder players. It's a very easy push for scum to make and this is shown by the fact that you were 'pushing Nos' D1 and it created like 0 waves.

Look at the difference between your push on Nos and Garmr's - your push looks like scum looking for an easy lynch. Garmr's push looks like town trying to lynch scum. There is a major difference in how both pushes have been carried out.

These two pushes cause a conflicting read on Nos for me and I'm not really sure what to do about it.

Yeah Scum!Tommy started pushing Scum!Nos d1 just as Nos started getting a pretty universal townread. Bussing my partner was absolutely the best option at that point

Since when was Nos universally town read? I'll wait for this one, should be good. Your push on Nos was so strong D1 that I can't even remember you doing it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Teacher

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm also down for lynching Tommy and Aristo if anyone fancies either of those.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

GEO, could I get some reads from you please? Scum reads would be preferable with reasons.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garmr, what is your read on Tommy?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

NM, what are you doing?

Have you read the game and do you have anything to offer?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

TChill - talk to me about the Garmr vote?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What's so bad about Garmr's Nos case?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aristo, that's not Garmr's case on Nos.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because it's non-committal, plays on semantics and allows easy back tracks on reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, you're using those 'town leans' to basically PoE vote someone. If the person you're voting turns out to be town, you can be like 'Huh, guess it's one of the other two people who I only town leaned and didn't strongly town read and I can now call them scum.'

Gives you lots of wiggle room. If you're confident enough to use them town leans to PoE vote someone then you're confident enough to call them town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sorry I haven't been involved, will be reading up and posting tonight.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

first, if you actually read the post in question, you'd see that I'm not, in fact, using PoE to scumread teacher. Poe simply pushes him further down, i.e. I'm using PoE to vote him rather than, say, tommy

second, if you actually read my iso, I specifically said I'm fine with lynching on wagon but I'd want it to be Egan. Why would my wiggle room be to go after nos or lefty?

third, If you actually read the conversation you'd see that all I'm saying in general is that I'm not certain that 2 scum were on the invis wagon. I'm not making a statement about how I feel about lefty or nos at all

get better at reading maybe?

fourth, and maybe this is a post-game discussion to be had, but what is wrong with reevaluating your reads after flips? Sometimes your day 1 reads are wrong, shocker! I'd be more suspicious of someone never reevaluating the game properly. sorry but you sound like the 2-week-olds I get in newbie games. This mindset mafiascum players seem to have that it's scummy to go after people you used to townread, sort of needs to die

I mean, you're using PoE to vote teacher. Whatever way you want to word it, you're using your town leans in order to PoE and vote someone else. But you don't feel confident enough to call them town. That's bullshit. You're not committing to the reads to allow an easy reversal (which I will speak more of in a moment).

My wiggle room comment was very clearly aimed at how you have PoE'd the people off the wagon - I said nothing about people on the wagon. You leave wiggle room to vote someone else off the wagon if teacher flips town (which seems unlikely but is still possible). You have taken that comment out of context and applied it to a different situation. Naughty, naughty.

Like, you try to insult my reading ability when the only thing I commented on was you being non-committal with your town reads. You have gone off on a tangent and started talking about things I wasn't even talking about. There is nothing wrong with reevaluating reads AFTER flips, but what you're doing is being non-committal on reads BEFORE flips so that AFTER flips you can switch your reads around more easily. For example, if I wanted to reverse my Nos (lean) town read, it would be very easy to do so as I have not committed to that read as strongly as I have to say Garmr or NM (Lefty). Those two reads would be much harder for me to backtrack on without gaining significant attention.

What you're doing is the former. You town leaned two people to Poe vote a third but then refrained from actually calling them town. That's scummy.

Garmr, what is your read on Tommy?

I like tommy and town read him. I been town reading him for a while. I liked his nos push day 1 also i'm not 100% sure but I think can see some suspicion of tchill in his post 1040, but he looks like gathering information instead of making accusations straight away.

Just to make sure I understand does your town read on Tommy rely mainly on him scum reading Nos? Is there anything outside of that?

Calling these two out now in a scum team now

Nosf,Tchill I'm having trouble with the third member of the scum team.

@bbt look at TChill day 2 action doesn't that scream obvious scum.

I've already admitted to not liking TChill's play D2 and that's mainly due to how some of our main reads have clashed. However, I don't think a clash of reads makes someone scum and I still see town motivation in his posts. I have no intention of lynching TChill today but depending on certain flips this read is subject to change as I'm nowhere near as confident as I was on D1.

Would like to point out how much of a struggle it was get a nos wagon going with legit points. But when it comes to my wagon I get a lot of blank votes with no reasoning, kinda funny how the wagon came after I said I'm start going to apply some pressure for actual reasoning on a read. Isn't the point of mafia to get information?

I don't think the Nos wagon was a struggle to get going, IIRC the wagon grew to around 4 (?) votes fairly quickly. I also agree that your wagon grew very quickly and there was 100% scum influence on that wagon (reminder that I need to look at it more closely.)

I'll go either way honestly because I highly doubt garmr and nos are the same alignment.

How have you ruled out that they both could be town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Votecount 2.05

Garmr

(4): Not_Mafia, Nosferatu, Performer, Tchill13

Huh.

Nos could be scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

i think nos or garmr should be the lynch.

Why do you scum read Garmr?

You're right. I don't feel that I need to cater the presentation of my reads to help the town.

if you think that's scummy you can lynch me.

Stuff like this makes me think Nos is town - he doesn't conform to 'traditional town play' and I'm trying to work out if that is why I want to scum read him.

Garmr's town, Nos's scum.

VOTE: Nos

Talk more about the Nos scum read? (I see you have elaborated slightly further down the page but is there more?)

Guys who's scum nos or garmr? And why

Garmr is never today's lynch. I don't know why today has to be between Nos and Garmr though? Thoughts on Tommy?

If we don't lynch nos or garmr, who's the best scum candidate? I say teacher.

I'd agree with this. Teacher is a good lynch.

I'll read their isos and reread that case but I had thought Garmr and Teacher looked town.

Forgot you were in this game - talk about your Teacher town read?

In 1132 Nos is talking to Garmr in a way that seems to assume Garmr's town. Yet Nos's currently voting Garmr.

This isn't a scum tell. Never has been, never will be. The amount of times I do this (as either alignment) is unbelievable. Just because you scum read someone you don't splash that intention across all of your posts. If you think along these lines then it can go as far as 'I'm not talking to you because you're scum' which is obviously silly.

Nos scum, Teacher scum

Briefly summarise why Nos is scum? And who would you prefer out of the two?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think teacher should be the lynch today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ugh @bbt you really gotta read my posts. You said i didn't push Nos earlier and even Nos confirmed I did now you're asking for a summary despite my reasons being available.

In short though active lurking, providing nothing and some quotes that ping me but I'm phone posting just now so I'll grab the quotes later.

I'd prefer Nos but more than happy to lynch either of them today.

No, I didn't say you didn't push Nos. I said you pushed Nos so hard that I don't remember you doing it. Misrep.

I mean, when I'm on a laptop I'll go grab your posts for why Nos is scum and we can analyze them. Because there really isn't a whole lot and I would argue that you spent a lot of D1 seemingly having a stronger scum read on BV but doing nothing about it.

Also, can you talk about your shift onto the Invis wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aristo, you didn't respond to my earlier post either. Make sure you do that please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

These are so bad, nos can I have a readslist if there isn't one between pages 21 onwards.

This is in relation to two posts from a conversation with Nos and myself.

The intention is clearly there and now I have kicked up a fuss about it nobody will be leaving is easily/quietly.

I have forced people on the wagon to defend their position on it. They had the chance to get off - and didn't take it. Now they're committed.

yeah ok but there was no reason to do this. People don't get lynched on page 18.

Don't they? Fuck it you're scum to me now.

And then this. And all of a sudden Nos is super scum. You have made a total of 2 posts relating to Nos - I don't understand the conviction in this read. Can you explain why that statement from Nos was so scummy?

be careful scumreading gus

you might just be a closet bigot

That’s also interesting but could be nothing

well it means they're not scum together.

Yeah, of the 4 on my wagon, disliking Nos the most. Added to sr . Feels like he's sliding by and just keeping his read there on me.

gonna do something about it?

Oh look Nos still literally providing nothing. I know that's rich coming from me but active lurking is 100% worse than not posting at all. The fact people are town reading this active lurking genuinely concerns me.

Then this - which seems slightly unfair on Nos given that the second post is clearly providing content.

Then at the end of this post you vote Nos - after reviewing your reasoning I fail to see how your Nos scum read is so strong. In fact, that troubles me that this is still your strongest scum read in the entire game given this is your reasoning. Your reasoning for BV!scum seem much stronger and yet you never entertain it.

What don't you get about the nos vote? I have my reasons more than once in my posts

From this point on, you just make posts like this (which you only did once on D1) as if to avoid having to address your scum read. I see now why you won't reiterate your points - it's a super weak read and yet your strongest in the game.

So I think my point about your push on Nos being weak on D1 was correct, you made a total of 4 posts maximum related to him (and they were contained in walls). You didn't push Nos very hard at all and yet entered D2 like Nos was confirmed scum.

After reviewing this, Tommy's reads are super weak. I don't understand how you think you pushed Nos so hard and yet you spent the majority of D1 actually pushing on BV. And then somehow you end up on the Invis wagon.

VOTE: Tommy

This is the lynch for Today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Performer, read my post on Tommy and give me your thoughts please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why is this game so slow now? D1 was a good pace and it's dropped.

If you're town, pull your finger out and sort it out

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garmr, what do you think about my post on Tommy?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I challenge anyone to produce reasoning or justify Tommy's L-1 vote and force of claim from Invis.

I'll wait.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

that's why i asked. Of cousre its easy to come up with a decent excuse there.

Why are you hung up on that? Are you convinced that makes him scum?

I'm not hung up on it - it's just one part of my case on Tommy. It is however an imporant part at a pivotal moment in the game.

Why does he vote Invis over BV? It's such a critical (opportunistic?) time to vote and force a claim on somebody he has shown 0 interest in. That doesn't set off a red flag for you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garmr, can you review my Tommy post please and give me your thoughts?

I feel like town are just pulling in so many different directions. It's real hard to find a consensus here as people just keep pushing their own reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's not the conclusions I have a problem with Garmr - it's the severity of the reads and the reasoning behind them.

I don't get why he doesn't push or vote BV.
I don't understand how Nos is his biggest scum read given his reasoning (especially compared to his reasoning for BV)
I don't understand how or why he jumped on the Invis wagon to force a claim.

You don't have any problems with this?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have a couple of issues with that post but I'm not sure it's going to get us anywhere so I'll just leave it.

I really don't think we should be lynching Performer FWIW.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aristo's vote on Nos is awful. Aristo, you still have not backed up your accusation you made against me. Answer my questions to you.

Ircher's vote isn't great either, I second what TChill said.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey guys,

Which wagon composition is scummier?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

GEO, do you think both Tommy and Nos can be scum together?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ircher, have a look at Tommy and then my case on him and give me your thoughts when you catch up please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Arsito, can you respond to me regarding your accusation?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1059

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh, because he is town. I'm pretty sure I explained my town read on Performer somewhere but it's along the lines of him not taking advantage of me being widely town read D1 and keeping suspicion on me. As scum, I expect (and he agreed) that he would just town read me and then kill me to avoid having to deal with me.

Second to this, Performer is nowhere near the scummiest person in this game. I'd lynch, Tommy, Aristo, BV/Ircher and teacher before Performer.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Are you fuckin kidding me Aristo?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah TChill, our reads being completely different on BV/Performer is what it is. I feel confident Performer is town and you feel confident that BV is town and we don't seem to be able to understand where the other is coming from (though I appreciate it would be difficult for you to understand my performer town read)

Also, I think Tommy has been lynched.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I agree that if Tommy flips town then Nos is a really good shout for scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, Tommy had 4 votes in last VC.

Then Performer voted him, then TChill and then you.
That's lynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Nos

I like your posting Garmr. My primary reason for thinking TChill could be scum was his staunch defence of BV and I couldn't understand why. I guess your posting makes sense and is a possibility - but there are also a couple of other possibilities where TChill is town and TChill wants to lynch Nos Today so I guess he can live for now.

Nos really should be the lynch today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garmr, TChill is a much more valuable asset to town if he is town.

I would much rather be wrong on Nos than wrong on TChill. Also, I don't think there is a chance in hell that Nos flips green.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Votecount 2.08

Nosferatu

(5): Tommy Egan, Gosrir Elmer Odels, Tchill13, Aristophanes, Ircher

Tommy Egan

(4): BlueBloodedToffee, wavemode, Nosferatu, teacher

Performer

(2): Garmr, Not_Mafia

Garmr

(1): Performer

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-07-05 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends

I'm gonna go ahead and leave this right here. In work atm, but want to talk about this more when I get home.

There were at least 3 counter wagons to Nos yesterday - teacher, Garmr and Tommy. Why where there so many counter wagons?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have very quickly skim read this game and there are a number of things I want to get to tonight.

Firstly though, other Mason needs to claim. At the very least, if we end up lynching one of the mason claims and they flip scum, we have the other confirmed.

They should be locked into the claim. If we have an investigative in this game then Mason claims need to be considered - can essentially net two scum or two conf town for following phase.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I really want NM to post more, I want to work with him, Garmr and TChill to solve this game. I'm pretty confident in these reads, maybe put Performer in there as well.

FWIW, Ircher JK Garmr does nothing for my read - if Garmr is scum he would have been a good person to send for the kill as a universal townread. If he is town, he would also be a high protection target. JK means nothing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will be on tonight to post better posts but wanted to throw my thoughts in thread whilst I have 5 mins

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm also against a mass claim. No need for that, at least a day early on the premature claims.

Let's nip this Mason thing in the bud and move on from here by lynching Nos.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can work on the assumption teacher is town but I need to read his latest posts a little closer before I commit to anything.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's my bad, I liked some of Nos' posting and Tommy's reads felt super stale whilst staying on the periphery of the game.

Don't mind taking responsibility for that one.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Let me read up properly, I've only skimmed but wanted to get in on some real time interaction incase nobody was around when I got to reading the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's probably MyLo and we need to mass claim.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, Wave is conf-town.

VT.