Allocate/Execute III--LIVE REVEAL--WINNER REVEALED!

[Skelda]

I'll do it I guess

[Skelda]

Can you update the playerlist please Monty? I keep forgetting who's alive

[Skelda]

Rip Meme. You played a killer game dude, like so freaking dominant. I'm sorry that you had to die.

I think I know where my vote will go, but I will make my final decision tomorrow. If anyone wants to make a plea to me, you can make it here I guess.

[Skelda]

Okay I've thought about it and I've made my decision.

Mallow, congrats on making it to the final three. You haven't spoken to me asking for me to take you, nor have you spoken to most of us for the majority of the game. I don't feel that you've put the effort in that the other two options have or frankly that the majority of the Jurors and even prejurors have and I really strongly feel that you do not deserve to win, so really there's no way that I can't go to the end with you as the person making the decision in this spot. Congrats on making it to the end with really nominal work, you've said from the beginning that you weren't planning on putting much effort in and you've definitely stayed true to your promise. Good luck in the final three.

Empire, you've been my right hand person this game. We've basically been in all alliances together, we've voted the same way every time, and we've had to stab the same people to get where we've gotten. From the time I first approached you about going to the end with the two of us and someone not from our alliance, you've been the best, most loyal ally that I could have hoped for and you've done basically everything I asked you to do, allowing us to execute our plan pretty flawlessly. I do believe that I was the more dominant one in the duo who really pushed for us to eliminate in the order that we did, but I guess that will be for the Jury to decide once questioning is done. There was the briefest moment where I considered D3f's arguments and thought about voting you out over him to prevent the potential vote-splitting we could cause because admittedly our games are similar, but I thought about how I would feel if you had betrayed me after all that we've promised each other and I sure as heck would be voting for D3f and honestly, with the people that the two of us have betrayed and put on the Jury, there would be a majority of the Jury who I feel would be perfectly justified in voting for D3f in that scenario too. We've said the whole time that it had to be the two of us in the end if we were going to take the road that we did and I think that's correct. Good luck in the final three.

D3f, I think you are way more down on your game than you should be. You were in a really horrible position right from the beginning being on the outside of a massive alliance, but you scrambled and clawed your way back into contention, made a few moves including basically singlehandedly forcing the Xof vote, and unlike me and Empire, you haven't had to brutally stab people who you had made commitments to in the back in order to do it. It's true that you were left out of a lot more votes than Empire or me, but that's to be expected when there's an alliance of six working behind your back right from the beginning. By making it all the way to the final four, you've really defied the odds and I think if I took you to the end you would be a worthy winner. You've also fought way more and put way more effort into staying this round than either of the other two members of the final four, and I definitely think that speaks to the player that you are and how much fight you've had this game and would continue to have if I didn't eliminate you here. It has been a pleasure working with you this game, and you should be proud of what you've accomplished. If I didn't think you could beat me, I wouldn't be voting you out. Well played man.

Vote: D3f

[Skelda]

@Xof

My alliances were...

Me-Empire (tightest)
Me-Empire-Xof-Aronis-Vash-Shadow-Meme (main alliance, as tight as can be expected)
Me-Empire-Xof-Vash-Shadow-Meme (original alliance minus Aronis, formed like a round or two before Aronis was voted out, still pretty tight)
Me-Empire-Meme (basically formed because Meme wanted it, I had no intention of going to the end together)
Me-Empire-Shadow (I really really wanted to be loyal to this one, but I didn't think I could beat Shadow)
Me-Flum-Shadow (not super tight)
Me-Shadow (kind of the whole game until we had to vote her out, my closet alliance other than Empire)
Me-Xof-Vash (we talked like right in the beginning, but once we joined our big alliance we stopped talking separately as much and of course Vash died)
Me-D3f? (I don't know what D3f and I had, it was a strange relationship where we didn't tell each other the truth pretty often, but at the same time I did ultimately trusted him not to come for me and that was all I needed so I'm counting it as an alliance)

I also talked to Mallow sometimes and Shrek sometimes before he lost his votes, and most people at least once or twice

[Skelda]

Also, whichever one of you can identify who my profile pic is first will get a 50% increase in their chances of earning my vote.

Risotto Nero from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. Don't ask me how I figured that out lol

[Skelda]

I'd like you all to give me a tl;dr of your games, because even though I read those enormous walls of text, I basically didn't absorb any information from them.

Except for Mallow, yours was good. Skelda, Empire, condense yours until they're the length of Mallow's.

I will do this tomorrow. This is not one of my strengths hahaha

[Skelda]

And Vij I will try to make a summary for you that isn't the length of my speech hopefully, no promises though

[Skelda]

I...can't find it in me to vote for any of you honestly. Empire and Skelda you both did dreadful jobs of trying to manage me as a juror at the end. Do either of you have anything to say for yourselves regarding this?

Mallow - can you summarize the votes that you made particularly in early- and mid-merge, and how you caught wind of each of those votes happening?

Okay hi D3f.

So I really empathize with your situation. I know that it really hurts to be voted out so close to the end, especially when you feel that the wrong decision was made, but I want to push back on some of the things that you are saying.

So first of all, I find it kind of interesting that you are simultaneously saying that you want to vote for neither Empire nor myself and you are claiming that I made this massive mistake by taking him to the end. Like, you kind of ironically are demonstrating exactly why I felt that I needed Empire in the end, because believe it or not you aren't the only person who we both stabbed in the back and who could conceivably have justification to feel this way. Like Shadow, Meme, Xof, Aronis, and you were all people who we worked with at various points who we ultimately voted out in favor of taking someone we hadn't worked with to the end, and I totally wouldn't blame them for wanting to vote against me, and under this scenario Empire would be voted out and could potentially feel that way also.

And the way that you are reaching to get Mallow to give you some reason to vote for him, do you honestly not think that people might have done the same thing with you? Except you actually played the game and there are a lot more arguments and ways that people could rationalize giving you their vote if they feel mad at me, which I gave them plenty of adequate cause to be.

Now it's possible that I made a mistake with who I took to the end, I'm not psychic so I just made the best decision with the information that I had and played the best game that I could up until that point. However, I also want to really push back on this idea that Empire was the person who convinced me to not want to go to the end with D3f. So first of all, I'm almost positive that I had discussions about D3f as a potential underdog winner with both Shadow and Meme before (or at least around the same time) that I talked about it to Empire, so at a bare minimum he doesn't get sole credit. I also had conversations with both of them about how if our alliance backstabbed each other then whoever they took to the end would probably win, obviously we all had incentives to claim that to be the case whether it was true or not but I do think that on some level it being out there meant that it would be something in their minds once they were voted out. But additionally, I came to him with a plan that involved cutting you at final 10 and although our relationship was fine prior to that I know that we didn't talk nearly as much so he definitely didn't convince me of that. Like, I think it's just untrue that Empire is the reason I didn't want to go to the end with you. I guess you can argue that he agreed with what I was already saying, but that's a far cry from convincing me of anything.

And finally and probably most importantly if you really consider this move by Empire brilliant and a potential reason to vote for him over me,

Empire made the same decision as me.

I understand why it's easy to be mad at me for your elimination because I was the one who actually cast the vote that did it, but Empire easily could have gone to the end with you and Mallow if he wanted to instead of with me. He knew that Mallow and I were both spending 10 votes on eliminating Meme, so all he had to do was hold back two more votes than I told him to and he would have had the power in the final round instead of me, and he admits that he considered this but didn't because he trusted me to vote out D3f. Now think about this. He knew I wasn't going to vote out Mallow because Mallow didn't do much of anything this game. Literally the only options are that I vote out him or you, so by choosing not to take Immunity for himself the final round he basically made the same decision I did a round earlier and potentially put himself in a little bit of danger for no reason in the process. Or alternatively he could have spent the votes that I said to and just like, told you not to spend all of your votes so that the two of you could vote me out the following round, that was an option for him as well. The point is, I honestly believe that he had the same issues with going to the end with you that I did and regardless of what his words say now, his actions in the game say otherwise. If this is the case, then it doesn't really matter whether the decision for me to take Empire was the right one or not because we both made the same choice, even if we made it in different ways.

And finally on the thing about me having horrible Jury management with you. Honestly D3f, I do feel bad about voting you out, but at the same time like I thought it was the best thing for my game and additionally I didn't really have any commitments to you, like I never promised you a final three as far as I remember and our relationship was super strange where we both lied to each other pretty much constantly so kind of like, what did you really expect from me? I would have gone to the end with you if I thought it yielded me the best chance of winning, I like you as a person and I tried to be as honest with you throughout the game as I could despite the fact that obviously I couldn't include you in too much because you didn't totally trust me. You're actually one of the people I was most honest with in the game, when the possibility of us going to end together came up I said that it seemed possible, but that a lot could change and I couldn't make any promises which was true. So like, I don't really know what I should have done to get you to be happy with me other than not vote you out, but I've explained why I thought that was necessary.

[Skelda]

I can't believe I caught you plotting behind my back and believed you were joking. It's pretty ridiculous. I should have told Mallow to votebomb Skelda instead of Menno but despite my 1 in trust I actually trusted you guys. Haha. If you can convince me there was a reason to do that to me besides that my name carries a reputation I'll consider voting for one of you.

No that was one of the most stressful moments in the entire game right now, like legitimately it was so awful and those results were also the most stressful of the game for me because I totally thought that you doing something like a vote dump was possible and just prayed that I'd done enough to mitigate the damage. However I do think I played it off as a joke as well as I could have and then we talked privately, where what was initially me just making sure that you hadn't caught on to what was happening in the game turned into the most amazing, genuine conversation of the entire game or honestly that I've had with anyone from MS for a long time so overall I'm glad that that little snaffoo happened because I think it brought us closer together as friends. And I'm super excited for this game regardless of the outcome to be over so that you will talk to me again.

Re: why you were a threat, I agree with what Empire said. Everyone who I talked to thought you were this big scary threat, so maybe in a sense it was based on reputation, but you and I have talked in this game about how perception is everything so regardless of whether or not there was any truth to the idea that you were playing a better game than me or not, people thought that you were and so for me taking you to the end was suicidal. And honestly, I think it's pretty clear that my odds of winning are higher sitting next to Mallow right now than if Mallow was exchanged with you, like that's just obvious. Also I think there are some jurors like Vij who I talked to particularly little, and I think right now the people I'm sitting next to also talked to them super little whereas you did a little more outreach in some of my weak spots. And additionally from my perspective you were responsible for the IPS vote (not that I think that was any kind of turning point in the game like Empire claims, I think our alliance was able to succeed because we had the numbers not because we took out IPS when we did). But I think the reason that vote was a nice move for your resume was because you were very likely to be the person who IPS would have come after whereas IPS definitely wasn't coming for Empire or I, and it was your relationship with Vij that ultimately made it happen.

[Skelda]

I'd like you all to give me a tl;dr of your games, because even though I read those enormous walls of text, I basically didn't absorb any information from them.

Except for Mallow, yours was good. Skelda, Empire, condense yours until they're the length of Mallow's.

I positioned myself in a pretty safe position in a large alliance through my social relationships, and then when the time was right I made a move by approaching Empire and convincing him to work with me to systematically eliminate our entire alliance and go to the end with someone who I thought wouldn't be able to win. I planned rounds and rounds in advance and navigated multiple alliances and final three deals with differing goals and priorities, but ultimately I was able to make them all align with my plan and get to the end with the two people who I thought I had the best chance of beating.

[Skelda]

Mallow, you said that you wouldn't take this game super-seriously. I think that would be an understatement, because you didn't even make an effort to contact me once. Tell me how you think this jury perceives you, especially since I think I'm not the only one you didn't bother to talk to at all.

From a subjective standpoint, the best game played would be by Skelda. D3F makes a point that he was left out of multiple votes, but in the end, I would be more likely to vote him than Empire or Mallow. Skelda, you, in my opinion, actually bothered to reach out to me. We've had a few great discussions, and without you, I might not be here as a Jury member in the first place. You are the frontrunner for my vote, and in my opinion, the game as a whole. You also know your stuff, too, so that's a 50% increase in the chance of getting my vote.

To get my vote, Empire, you're going to have to have an AMAZING FTC performance while Skelda's is mediocre, and right now, that's not happening.

Mallow, the only way you'll get my vote is if I'm feeling nice and don't want you to be a 0 vote finalist. But right now, you're not really fighting for anyone's vote. At all.

Love you bae. <3 Lincler and Goldenfold 4 lyfe

[Skelda]

Which user are you providing SUPP score feedback to? (type it right; I don't want to have to fix it manually) *
-McMenno

What score did you provide this user? (If you're not sure, indicate a range) *
-10

Why did you provide this user this score? *
-I know him and the LSG people deserve to be dominant while to normal Mafia people deserve to suck. Also Arthas and Spongebob though, like come on, total kings

[Skelda]

Honestly, D3f, I've been debating whether to wait to respond but I can't anymore because Skelda's arguments to you about my thought process are based on inferences that have zero basis in reality and only goes to show how his perception of my game is warped by what I laid out for him. Like, I literally have a conversation log with Meme where we were discussing F3 candidates and I mentioned your name saying that even if you make a big move, it is unlikely you would have very many votes remaining and thus would have no future control over the game. I can't really speak to whether other people spoke to him about you so all I can tell you is what happened on my end.

The reason I didn't put myself in the position where I had to make the choice at the end was because I didn't have to. By that point, I was confident enough in my game and secure enough that Skelda was going to take me to the end no matter what that I prioritized securing the Meme boot because he was the biggest threat remaining. If I really felt like I was in any danger at all, you bet your ass I would have undercommitted on Meme and then set myself up to get rid of whoever I wanted at the end. But I didn't need to and that's the point.

There are enough clear lapses in his thought process from that post that it's clear he's missing a lot in how he thought about stuff those last couple rounds.

I really disagree with this, but obviously I would. It's not really a specific enough argument that I even know how to address it, I guess it's for the Jury to decide.

So first of all, I find it kind of interesting that you are simultaneously saying that you want to vote for neither Empire nor myself and you are claiming that I made this massive mistake by taking him to the end.

I have to vote because that's how these games work (for those of you keeping score at home, I legitimately thought I voted at FTC in Mario Bros but I guess I didn't). My first comment is that I'm upset at both of you for how I was handled at the end of the game. My second was me trying to consider the fact that yes, I'm actually supposed to vote for somebody at the end of this game, and it was me trying to figure out who I would want to get rid of. Yes, I am convinced that I had very little of a case to win the game, and I told you how clueless I was throughout the game. I literally had no idea about any of the alliances that existed. If you picked me over Empire, Empire, or Shadow, or xof, or Meme, or Aronis, would have pointed that out and I'd be lucky to get more than one vote.

Okay I mean like look, if that's the case then I made the wrong decision but that isn't really an argument against my game since like I pointed out, by not taking Immunity for himself Empire implicitly made the same decision.

So like, I don't really know what I should have done to get you to be happy with me other than not vote you out

You didn't have the decency to end our conversation Saturday morning. You didn't have the decency to talk to me at all in the full twenty-two and a half hours between that and when you actually posted your message, even to provide a simple apology. You tried in your post where you voted for me, but just rehashing the same points you told me in private just a day prior doesn't count as a success. Empire didn't have the decency to talk to me at all...he explained it, but it's not like that makes it forgivable in terms of it affecting my vote.

Okay well I'm sorry about that, I should have messaged you. Saturday was particularly busy for me and I thought that since I'd told you that I was voting you out that night before that I didn't need to just have the same conversation again since nothing had changed, but if that's what you wanted then and it would have made you feel better then I guess I should have.

Empire made the same decision as me.

Nope. You decided to take Empire to the end. Empire decided to take you to the end. Some of the reasoning for getting rid of me is the same, but not all of it, because you two are clearly fighting for the same set of votes here and are making different arguments to discredit the other one's game because you two played different games. You're claiming that because Woo picked Tony to go to FTC with him in Cagayan in order for him to make the honorable decision, inherently if Tony wanted to pick Woo it would have had to be for the exact same reason, which is hilarious to think about when Tony was so, so far from honorable as a Survivor player.

No that's not what I'm claiming. I'm not saying that Empire and I played the same game, but I am claiming that you can't chastise me for taking him to the end without also chastising him since presumably it would be an easy win for both of us either way if the way you see it is how it actually was. What I'm claiming is that we both thought our best chance at winning was going with each other and that was the ultimate reason why you were eliminated, which I still believe to be the case. You need to find other ways to differentiate us and I believe that my game was better because I came up with the plan that ultimately got us to this position in the first place, if I never approach Empire to go to the end with one of Mallow/Menno/Shrek, I don't believe that it happens and we wouldn't have been able to pull this off. I think that's the crucial differentiating factor and why I deserve to win.

Completely separate note. Say Empire and Meme aren't able to convince me to keep paying attention to the game, so I use the remainder of my votes on Shadoweh without telling anyone (as I was initially going to do) and she goes at F11. What happens from there, just out of curiosity? Does that actually change things?

I think I'd probably be fine? You wouldn't have enough votes to really do anything at that point, so I think we would probably have just kept Aronis around for a few more rounds than we did. I mean it's really impossible to say, but I think because of how I was positioned in my alliance I wasn't going to be in direct danger from people taking snipes and I could have made it to the end even if you did that

[Skelda]

Vijarada's summary, according to Skelda.

SaveTheDragons--17th Place (STD was going to dump his votes on someone. We didn't know who for sure, so we all got together enough votes to send him home instead and also to try to get him to adopt a different strategy)
Cheery Dog--16th Place (I honestly don't remember why we voted out Cheery Dog other than he wasn't in our seven person alliance and we just needed to vote for someone.)
VashtaNeurotic--15th Place (My alliance decides that the vote should be Shrek, which I begrudgingly accept despite the fact that I really like Shrek because it's too early for me to be rocking the boat. However, Shrek winds up choosing to dump his votes and takes out Vash which makes me really happy because I know that Vash would have wanted to eliminate me at some point and I was fully prepared to have to deal with him when the time came, but Shrek took care of him for me)
Deathnote--14th Place (DN isn't talking much so he's the next vote)
Iprobablysuck--13th Place (Vij tells Shadow that IPS wants to take out a social threat, so IPS is voted out)
Fluminatour--12th Place (Flum is plotting to eliminate a big player soon, and because it's too early for for my game he is voted out)
Vijarada--11th Place (Vij is voted out. I don't really remember the circumstances tbh, we just agreed to vote out Vij as an alliance and so it was)
Aronis--10th Place (Our alliance turns on its own for the first time, mostly prompted by Meme who is worried about Aronis' connections to other people outside of alliance, and Aronis tries to eliminate Shadow I believe. Also during this round I approach Meme about the plan to go to the end together)
Xofelf--9th Place (Shadow and Mallow are voting for Menno, Empire and then Meme come to me and tell me that D3f wants to do Xof, I ultimately agree to the plan but I don't tell D3f that I know and I vote for Menno)
Shrek--8th Place (We need to eliminate one of the people without votes in order to not be shut out of the endgame, and because Menno is Immune the vote is Shrek)
McMenno--7th Place (Mallow is the vote because I want to go to the end with Menno, however Mallow dumps his votes on Menno and eliminates him. Shadow also finds out about her blindside the following round through a crosspost, but she is ultimately convinced that it was a joke)
Shadoweh--6th Place (Shadow is voted out because she has the most votes out of anyone and we can't beat her in the end)
CaptainMeme--5th Place (Meme is voted out because D3f is Immune and I want the final three to be me, Mallow, and Empire)
D3f3nd3r--4th Place (I have a majority of the votes left and I vote for D3f for the reasons that I've already explained)

You're welcome. The early rounds in particular may be a little fuzzy because my memory isn't the best that far back

[Skelda]

You guys are talking about the Final Eleven and how to win from there? My issue was getting to the next day without having to use all 51 of my votes. It would have been impossible for me (and WAS impossible for many pre-jurors) to get where I am without vote-dumping on someone and riding out immunities.

I think you not having a Discord in the beginning was a massive, massive disadvantage because by the time you joined Discord, a majority alliance had already formed and you were kind of out to dry. I will say that I didn't know the majority of people in this game that well before signing up, like I even talked to Xof saying I was unsure how I would do because of that, Meme and Empire were both people who I hadn't really ever worked with when I started this game but we still ended up aligned.

I think because of the way this game worked with some people not having many votes and there not being Immunity challenges, it was way way easier to plan in advance than it usually is.

[Skelda]

@Xof



I included a grumpy Harald looming in the background plotting to split us up.

[Skelda]

Aronis--10th Place (Our alliance turns on its own for the first time, mostly prompted by Meme who is worried about Aronis' connections to other people outside of alliance, and Aronis tries to eliminate Shadow I believe. Also during this round I approach Meme about the plan to go to the end together)

Not that it makes much of a difference, but it was me who approached you about going to the end together in that round - specifically because you'd been trying to shift the target off'ff D3f in the alliance chat, and I was trying to get to a position with D3f where I could make a move with him against our alliance if necessary, so I thought we could work together on that.

Something I do want to ask here is, before that point, why were you specifically pointing to the non-D3f targets in the alliance chat? I thought it was because you wanted to side with him at some point, but your posts have made it pretty clear that you were never intending to stick with him.

I misspoke, I meant Empire. I approached Empire with a plan to go to the end together, you approached me. Sorry about that.

Um, I think reducing it down to me not wanting to work with D3f is wrong, my relationship with D3f was very very complicated. I wanted D3f around because I knew based on how he was talking to me that he didn't perceive me as part of the big alliance and that he wouldn't actually come for me if he dumped his votes on someone. For example, he would talk to me about how he was worried there was a big alliance behind our backs that we weren't included in and I knew that he wouldn't say that to me if he thought that I was a member. I also think D3f was one of the people outside of our alliance who I talked to the most, so I had a clear sense of where his head was at in general.

Later on D3f started lying to me and telling the truth to other people (particularly about the 18 Xof votes that he cast at one point and about a few other things), so that's when I became a lot less comfortable including him in moves that I was making, but I still do think that keeping him around longer than most of the other people who went home prejury was a good move for me because he did want the same things as me for the most part even if he didn't trust me enough to tell me about them most of the time. And I think most of the other people who we voted out during this time (particularly Vijarada, though I'm sure others as well) had closer relationships to Shadow and Xof than to me also and that was another good reason to eliminate them rather than D3f.

[Skelda]

Honestly, D3f, I've been debating whether to wait to respond but I can't anymore because Skelda's arguments to you about my thought process are based on inferences that have zero basis in reality and only goes to show how his perception of my game is warped by what I laid out for him. Like, I literally have a conversation log with Meme where we were discussing F3 candidates and I mentioned your name saying that even if you make a big move, it is unlikely you would have very many votes remaining and thus would have no future control over the game. I can't really speak to whether other people spoke to him about you so all I can tell you is what happened on my end.

The reason I didn't put myself in the position where I had to make the choice at the end was because I didn't have to. By that point, I was confident enough in my game and secure enough that Skelda was going to take me to the end no matter what that I prioritized securing the Meme boot because he was the biggest threat remaining. If I really felt like I was in any danger at all, you bet your ass I would have undercommitted on Meme and then set myself up to get rid of whoever I wanted at the end. But I didn't need to and that's the point.

There are enough clear lapses in his thought process from that post that it's clear he's missing a lot in how he thought about stuff those last couple rounds.

I really disagree with this, but obviously I would. It's not really a specific enough argument that I even know how to address it, I guess it's for the Jury to decide.

So first of all, I find it kind of interesting that you are simultaneously saying that you want to vote for neither Empire nor myself and you are claiming that I made this massive mistake by taking him to the end.

I have to vote because that's how these games work (for those of you keeping score at home, I legitimately thought I voted at FTC in Mario Bros but I guess I didn't). My first comment is that I'm upset at both of you for how I was handled at the end of the game. My second was me trying to consider the fact that yes, I'm actually supposed to vote for somebody at the end of this game, and it was me trying to figure out who I would want to get rid of. Yes, I am convinced that I had very little of a case to win the game, and I told you how clueless I was throughout the game. I literally had no idea about any of the alliances that existed. If you picked me over Empire, Empire, or Shadow, or xof, or Meme, or Aronis, would have pointed that out and I'd be lucky to get more than one vote.

Okay I mean like look, if that's the case then I made the wrong decision but that isn't really an argument against my game since like I pointed out, by not taking Immunity for himself Empire implicitly made the same decision.

So like, I don't really know what I should have done to get you to be happy with me other than not vote you out

You didn't have the decency to end our conversation Saturday morning. You didn't have the decency to talk to me at all in the full twenty-two and a half hours between that and when you actually posted your message, even to provide a simple apology. You tried in your post where you voted for me, but just rehashing the same points you told me in private just a day prior doesn't count as a success. Empire didn't have the decency to talk to me at all...he explained it, but it's not like that makes it forgivable in terms of it affecting my vote.

Okay well I'm sorry about that, I should have messaged you. Saturday was particularly busy for me and I thought that since I'd told you that I was voting you out that night before that I didn't need to just have the same conversation again since nothing had changed, but if that's what you wanted then and it would have made you feel better then I guess I should have.

Empire made the same decision as me.

Nope. You decided to take Empire to the end. Empire decided to take you to the end. Some of the reasoning for getting rid of me is the same, but not all of it, because you two are clearly fighting for the same set of votes here and are making different arguments to discredit the other one's game because you two played different games. You're claiming that because Woo picked Tony to go to FTC with him in Cagayan in order for him to make the honorable decision, inherently if Tony wanted to pick Woo it would have had to be for the exact same reason, which is hilarious to think about when Tony was so, so far from honorable as a Survivor player.

No that's not what I'm claiming. I'm not saying that Empire and I played the same game, but I am claiming that you can't chastise me for taking him to the end without also chastising him since presumably it would be an easy win for both of us either way if the way you see it is how it actually was. What I'm claiming is that we both thought our best chance at winning was going with each other and that was the ultimate reason why you were eliminated, which I still believe to be the case. You need to find other ways to differentiate us and I believe that my game was better because I came up with the plan that ultimately got us to this position in the first place, if I never approach Empire to go to the end with one of Mallow/Menno/Shrek, I don't believe that it happens and we wouldn't have been able to pull this off. I think that's the crucial differentiating factor and why I deserve to win.

Completely separate note. Say Empire and Meme aren't able to convince me to keep paying attention to the game, so I use the remainder of my votes on Shadoweh without telling anyone (as I was initially going to do) and she goes at F11. What happens from there, just out of curiosity? Does that actually change things?

I think I'd probably be fine? You wouldn't have enough votes to really do anything at that point, so I think we would probably have just kept Aronis around for a few more rounds than we did. I mean it's really impossible to say, but I think because of how I was positioned in my alliance I wasn't going to be in direct danger from people taking snipes and I could have made it to the end even if you did that

I think you misinterpreted...uh...basically everything I said in that post? My first line was an introduction of sorts to the several comments I made following that in the post. My second wasn't meant to be an argument against your game, it's a comment on the thoughts you expressed in what I quoted. What's interesting about it? I'm trying to figure out how my two opinions are mutually exclusive. I didn't need to rehash the same conversation we had before, a simple "once again, I'm sorry it came to this" would have been much more than sufficient and I'm honestly insulted by the fact that you think I wanted to have that same conversation again and by how you worded that part of your post. You seem to be ignoring what I said at the end about the fact that you two had very different reasons why you thought getting rid of me was the play surrounding from the fact that you two have different ideas as to how the other played. If Empire agreed with you that you were the one that pushed him in the direction of the endgame you two ultimately got to, then I'm sure that's something that he would need to address, and he has by claiming that your view of that whole sequence is false. I'm trying to differentiate the two of you and that's a place to start.

While we're looking at the last post you just made, I didn't tell you because I believed (correctly, it seemed!) that you were firmly in Shadow's and xof's corner. By the time they were gone I was so far down the rabbit hole that I wasn't going to correct myself for a lie I'd made six rounds prior.

So first of all I'm sorry if I offended you by the way I worded that part of the post and if I caused you any undue unhappiness by not checking in with you on Saturday then that's on me and I have to own that. I promise you that it isn't my intention to insult you or belittle the way you felt upon being eliminated or something. All I was trying to say was that I thought the conversation of the previous night was sufficient and that you understood from that that I was most likely voting you out and why and that I felt bad about it, but thought it was necessary. I probably should have approached your elimination differently and if that cost me your vote, so be it.

I wasn't saying your two opinions were mutually exclusive, but I was saying that you having that opinion illustrates a problem that I thought Empire and I could potentially have with many Jurors. I think maybe my original post wasn't clear here which is part of the problem that we're having.

I don't think we did have drastically different reasons for wanting you eliminated, I think that's where we disagree. We both thought that we could beat each other in the end, that's straight up the situation. I still think that I played a better game than Empire and that this thing about him pretending to be second in command is false and revisionist history (and even if it isn't, I was still the one who came up with the plan and who did the work to execute it and he hasn't really contested that, so in that case how is being second in command any different from pretending to be second in command really?). I think his view (if it was his actual view during the game and not something that he's just saying now) is false too, but just asserting that doesn't change any opinions. It's up for the Jurors to decide whose explanation of events makes more sense. But basically I think your elimination was something we both wanted to happen and would have done and that it doesn't meaningfully differentiate us and you seem to think that it does.

I think Empire is playing up/exaggerating how bad of a move he thought eliminating you was now after the fact because he knows that you think it was a bad move and he wants to get your vote and make me look bad, and I was pointing to his actions in the game of not going to the end with you himself as evidence for that since if he truly thought that there was no way you would win, he wouldn't have let me get Immunity since he'd want to go to the end with you.

And yes I get why you thought that, you were wrong because I knew full well that you were lying and I was plotting with Empire to eliminate Shadow/Xof myself at that point, but based on what I'd shown you I can see why you'd think I was with Xof and Shadow and not want to confide in me that you'd voted for Xof. I even understood that in the game which was why I didn't come after you even though I knew you were lying. But at the same time that sort of thing does sow distrust and that's just the way it is.

[Skelda]

You want evidence of what I'm claiming D3f?

[2:35 PM] Insanoflex: menno and shrek surviving in this game is gonna crowd us out of the finals
[2:36 PM] skelda: I don't think we'd be the ones crowded out though?
[2:36 PM] Insanoflex: yeah but like
[2:36 PM] skelda: But I agree that at least one of them has to die
[2:36 PM] Insanoflex: if i'm literally anyone else in this game
[2:36 PM] Insanoflex: i want to go to the end with those two
[2:36 PM] Insanoflex: right?
[2:36 PM] Insanoflex: it would cement a victory
[2:36 PM] Insanoflex: which means less spots for us
[2:36 PM] skelda: No I agree
[2:36 PM] Insanoflex: it would come down to whoever has the most votes
[2:37 PM] skelda: I guess my point is I think we need to think about maximizing our own odds of winning
[2:37 PM] Insanoflex: i agree with that
[2:37 PM] skelda: And like do we win against Meme, Xof, and Shadow?
[2:37 PM] Insanoflex: tbh i do think we might have a shot against shadoweh
[2:37 PM] skelda: Like can the two of us beat any of those people?
[2:37 PM] skelda: I agree with that
[2:38 PM] skelda: Like you, me, Shadow is definitely the best case if it's three members of our alliance in the end
[2:38 PM] Insanoflex: but i do think like
[2:38 PM] Insanoflex: you and i need to be there at the end
[2:38 PM] skelda: No we do
[2:38 PM] Insanoflex: given that both of us have not talked to half the jury
[2:39 PM] skelda: Yes exactly. And I wouldn't be opposed to having one of the people we haven't talked to next to us tbh
[2:39 PM] Insanoflex: i have thought a lot about what people like menno or shrek would vote based on
[2:39 PM] skelda: Not to be like awful, but it would guarantee one of us a win
[2:39 PM] Insanoflex: yeah i get you
[2:40 PM] skelda: So we just need to think hard. We could go with Shadow and I think we have a case
[2:40 PM] skelda: Or we could cut Shadow and go with some random person

So this was the first time that I brought up the idea of cutting our alliance and going with someone not in our alliance to Empire and to be honest, I think the conversation speaks for itself. He brings up the idea that he thinks that he thinks we could beat Shadoweh in the end and that his priority is eliminating the people who we aren't talking to so that they don't crowd us out of the end, but I slowly ease him into the plan and get him on board with cutting Shadoweh. I think this is the moment where I show why I deserve to win the game and from the way this conversation went down it's pretty clear who was responsible for this happening.

[Skelda]

Here is a quote from a conversation that I believe is the first time the idea of D3f as a threat is mentioned in our chat.

[2:46 PM] skelda: I don't want D3f in the F3 though, I see him as a potential underdog
[2:47 PM] Insanoflex: eh idk, he's been in the dark most of the game and he doesn't have many votes
[2:47 PM] Insanoflex: so it's not like he's gonna be a player in the future
[2:47 PM] skelda: Oh I agree

How is this you convincing me that D3f is a big threat? You said basically the same thing to me as you did to Meme. Now I don't know what you truly believe, I can't read your mind. And honestly if you truly believed that you could beat D3f in the end, that still doesn't explain why you didn't go to the end with him yourself. But I really don't think you influenced me. The only time I see you trying to play up D3f's threat level is here which I think looks worse for you.

[5:15 PM] skelda: But do you want to go to F3 with Meme?
[5:15 PM] Insanoflex: you know, originally i would have said no but
[5:16 PM] Insanoflex: if d3f pulls off this move
[5:16 PM] Insanoflex: and like i think you mentioned
[5:16 PM] Insanoflex: d3f might have an underdog-ish story behind him
[5:16 PM] Insanoflex: so idk

So basically your supposed argument here was cut D3f and go to the end with Meme which I was 100% never doing and whether you believed it or not, it was a bad argument.

So basically the point is, I already thought that, I didn't need convincing, if anything you needed convincing and I believe you were convinced or you would have taken Immunity at F4 and cut me.

P-edit- Empire's quote literally mentions me already having mentioned that because I had. He was referencing something he already knew I thought. And we were going to quote part of the same thing so that's funny how different the way we're looking at these are.

[Skelda]

I also think it's kind of irrelevant what we thought about D3f and why tbh, like I think my first quote shows the actual reason that we were able to have success in this game and that conversation makes it pretty clear that it was my doing. If we care about who is responsible for getting us to this point, it was my plan that did it and that should be enough to get me the win.

But I will continue to argue on the D3f point obviously because it's basically the biggest argument that Empire seems to have at this point

[Skelda]

To be honest with you, I don't care whether you changed your mind in the middle of that day, whether you were lying to Meme for some reason, or whether you were consciously lying to me to play up D3f's threat level. The point is, my opinion was always that D3f wasn't someone who I wanted to go to the end with from before we even talked about it and nothing you said or did changed that, but in fact you tried to convince me the opposite at one point. So you doing this had absolutely zero effect on anything.

And even if it did have some effect, it doesn't matter because that would only make a difference if you actually played a better game than me apart from that, which you didn't do. If your purpose was to convince me that you were threatened by D3f so that you could sneakily go to the end with D3f, then maybe that's an actually interesting move, but you didn't do that, you allowed me to get to the end when I forged the plan that allowed us to be so successful in this game.

[Skelda]

Okay Empire I think we've both laid out what we bring to the table in terms of a Jury vote and you're right, we aren't going to get anywhere just arguing back and forth.

Of course I didn't do everything, you definitely did make contributions, but I do think that my plan was the reason that we got here with Mallow who we have a chance at beating rather than with Meme or Shadow who probably would have beaten us and that's the point I was making. I don't really remember the details of how the majority alliance formed or how the IPS vote went down, but I don't think you can claim sole responsibility for either of them, I definitely feel like I did my fair share of nudging at least for the original formation of the alliance and my memory is the IPS vote being Shadow, but I really don't know because like you said I don't see every conversation you have and neither does the Jury. The thing about you getting me into a F3 with Meme is definitely a contributing factor to why that F3 existed, but I think Meme himself said that he wanted it because I was protecting D3f in the alliance chat and from Meme's perspective going with the two of us just made sense because he would have beaten us, so of course he was going to offer us a F3.

I agree with you that you made sure there was someone higher on the food chain than you and I did the same thing. I think the crucial difference is that I planned to take those people higher on the food chain than me out while you planned on going to the end with them until I convinced you otherwise.

I know I said I wouldn't keep going back and forth, I'm sorry I can't help it lol. I really want to set the record straight and make sure the Jury understands the differences between our games. The truth is that we both brought things to the table in terms of abilities and it's up to the Jury to decide what things they value. We've both played well, but I honestly believe that I've played better.

[Skelda]

Vijarada's summary, according to Skelda.
VashtaNeurotic--15th Place (My alliance decides that the vote should be Shrek, which I begrudgingly accept despite the fact that I really like Shrek because it's too early for me to be rocking the boat. However, Shrek winds up choosing to dump his votes and takes out Vash which makes me really happy because I know that Vash would have wanted to eliminate me at some point and I was fully prepared to have to deal with him when the time came, but Shrek took care of him for me)

I just want to point out that I heard zero of this shrek sympathy coming from anyone in that alliance except for me. This is just a bunch of pandering to try to make you feel good.

I just checked the alliance chat and when the Shrek vote was suggested I said that I preferred Vijarada because Shrek was actually talking to me, but by the time I arrived in our chat the Shrek vote was basically already decided. I can get the exact quote if you want, I'm on my phone rn

[Skelda]

Ugh ok I know I said one last one:

I said what I said about Shadoweh, again, precisely to position myself in the alliance as making you believe that you were the one calling the shots. Like, of course I knew going to the end with Shadoweh was a horrible idea. No shit. But I said that so you could be like, "no, Empire *pat pat* of course we can't take Shadoweh to the end" and think to yourself "wow, I can beat this guy and take the credit for everything." But while I was telling you all of this, I went around making the deals that needed to be made to further my long term position in the game.

Dude, we barely talked before the merge and had no history of working together previously. Did you really think I was just gonna blindly trust you to agree to our finals deal? Of course not. The only way I could ensure that is to give you the impression that you could beat me while simultaneously working behind the scenes. And that's exactly what I did.

I mean it's easy for you to say now that any wrong thing you said to me in our alliance chat was just you making me think that I could beat you, but I really really don't think that was the case here. This was literally the first time I suggested that we have an alliance where I also suggested that we go to the end with one of Mallow/Shrek/Menno, and your first reaction wasn't to say that that was a good idea, but to say that we had a chance against Shadow. And even if you were faking it, that doesn't change the fact that I was the one who initiated that plan and if I hadn't you might not be sitting here right now and if you were you would likely be up against someone like Meme or Shadow who you didn't have great odds of beating. And you say that it was obvious that we couldn't go to the end with Shadow, but like this conversation happened at F10, I don't think you yet realized that. Maybe I'm wrong and you were always planning on not going to the end with Shadow or Meme, but if so you didn't take any initiative to reach out to me to make sure that you had the votes to get them when the time came to do it, for all you knew I could have truly been loyal to Shadow or Meme. I took a risk by approaching you about cutting them that you were unwilling to take, because like you say we weren't the closest allies before that point.

Like if your strategy was to let me take the reigns in our alliance chat so that I would take you to the end which seems to be the most charitable version of your argument (it's also possible that that wasn't your intentional strategy and you're just claiming that it was now), I still was the one that took the reigns in the alliance chat and made the decisions that actually mattered. So whether you were faking being willing to go to the end with people like Shadow and Meme or not, by saying the things you did you gave yourself less control in our alliance chat and because our alliance chat is where the plan that produced this final three was hatched, you had less to do with getting us to this point than me.

I referenced this conversation in my opening speech, I'm sure there are others like it but it stands out to me. This was on June 10th, so we'd already agreed that Meme and Shadow needed to die.

[8:02 PM] Insanoflex: i guess we are aiming for shadoweh at 4th place? idk i think meme would be better at 4th place
[8:02 PM] Insanoflex: and shadoweh goes 5th
[8:02 PM] Insanoflex: orr w/e
[8:02 PM] skelda: No I want to do Shadow next
[8:02 PM] Insanoflex: oh even better
[8:02 PM] skelda: Shadow, then D3f, then Meme
[8:02 PM] Insanoflex: d3f and meme don't have shit for votes
[8:03 PM] skelda: Yeah the D3f and Meme order is irrelevant, they both are endgame threats with no votes

So is Empire intentionally playing dumb in this example? Maybe he is, that's probably what he's going to claim anyway. But like, I'm the one making the decision about when Shadow should die so it doesn't really matter what his inner thoughts were. Like what would he have done if I agreed with his plan for a 4th or 5th place Shadow? Because of the votes she had, Shadow could not be 4th or 5th place, she could have easily made it to the end and ruined everything.

The whole idea of intentionally suggesting plans you don't agree with to your allies to make them underestimate you is just such a dodgy strategy if it actually was his strategy

[Skelda]

Oiy since it's a point of contention I checked my logs, I wanted to vote out Flumi immediately but Empire wouldn't do it, insisting we couldn't cut Aronis and you skelda out of that vote, and suggested IPS instead.

Yeah, this is accurate. I argued that we couldn't leave the two of you on the outs because of the possibility you would turn on me/Shadoweh/xof so I suggested the IPS vote because it was an easier sell.

Ok? I mean I don't think the IPS vote was as big a deal as you're claiming, though it definitely was a good idea not to randomly leave Aronis and I out of a vote so I think that was a smart decision on your part. I'm almost positive if Flum had been suggested to me I would have gone along with it seeing as I went along with the Flum vote the following round, but I guess you're responsible for flipping the vote from Flum to IPS there.

I don't really think the IPS vote is the reason that we're here though like I've said, the worst IPS could have done would have been take out a member of our alliance and it wouldn't have been me or you so it wouldn't have changed much of anything. I just don't think that IPS is the crucial round here, I think the crucial round is the Aronis round where I approach you about cutting Meme, Shadow, and Xof, I guess the Jury can decide which round they think had a bigger impact on the direction of the game.

[Skelda]

I fail to see how I'm here because of you Skelda. I could have easily bombed you instead of McMenno and you wouldn't even be here, sitting all high and mighty like you currently are

That's true, but I did talk to you occasionally unlike most people in the game to try to prevent you from doing that. You could have done that to anyone at any time, that's an element of this game that we had to navigate.

My alliance wanted to vote you off at F5 where I made a move on Meme, if I hadn't saved you there you wouldn't be here today. I don't even know if you knew that you were in danger. And I'd suggested that we go to the end with someone who hadn't done much to Empire many many rounds earlier without you having any idea, so I was trying to time it right so that there was someone like that still alive when we needed them alive.

I suppose you specifically aren't the one who made it because of me, that's accurate. I was just as happy with your seat being filled with Menno and if you hadn't vote-dumped that's what would have happened. But I did come up with the plan that enabled there to be a seat in the end for a player like you, and you were the last one alive who took it.

[Skelda]

I definitely think that's a fair argument Meme, although I would make the argument that I had a closer relationship with Shadow which kind of enabled that F3 to form which was just as useful, though of course like Empire keeps saying none of us know how players are presenting themselves to other people so maybe Empire and Shadow were just as tight as Empire and you behind my back, but I do think that my relationship with Shadoweh was as tight as your relationship with Empire

For me anyway the Meme F3 was nice to have because it kept Meme calm, but ultimately Meme had drastically decreased his number of votes already even before he spent those five votes to save Empire to the point where he didn't really have any power to do anything, so most of my energy went towards Shadoweh since she had more votes than us and actually could have made something happen if she caught on. That was my thought process anyway, I didn't see the point in building up a bunch of trust with you when I knew I was going to have to cut you and you were basically dependent on us due to being low on votes anyway. I guess you could argue that your relationship with Empire made you feel comfortable enough to spend tons of votes early, I don't know if that's the case, but I will say that if you had more votes I would have approached you very differently

[Skelda]

I also think that part of the reason that you and Empire were so tight was because you were Jigglypuff and DK whereas I didn't know either of you well before this game, kind of an irrelevant point but at least worth mentioning because you mentioned it to me at least once as a reason why you trusted Empire so much during the game

[Skelda]

I mean maybe it wasn't as extreme as I remembered, but you did play 6 on STD, 4 on IPS/Vija, 5 on Flum, and 4 on Aronis/yourself which was more than most of us were spending in most rounds by a lot, most of us only spent 1 or 2 most rounds in the beginning. You're right that that was a slight exaggeration on my part and I probably had assumed that you had committed what our alliance agreed upon which was usually a little higher than 1, but I also do think that with the number of votes you had left at that point (28 according to this, and had you not spent those extra 5 votes 23 the following round) vote-dumping for you without telling anyone else wasn't going to be super possible unless you planned on using all or most of your votes which would obviously put you in a massively vulnerable spot.

[Skelda]

Congrats Empire!!! You deserve it. Thank god it wasn't Mallow, I was a little nervous there for a second.

I had a blast everyone, this game was so much fun! I shouldn't have taken Empire to the end although honestly with how many votes Mallow got I'm not sure that I would have won that either

[Skelda]

It's fine Shrek. <3

You cast your vote for me in our hearts

[Skelda]

Thank you Flum! <3