Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)


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Post Post #1975 (isolation #200) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:34 pm

Post by ruru »

Actually so

Suppose JK jails cop, cop acts, vig acts

Scum shoot JK

Do the night actions resolve or does that count as X going below 0?
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Post Post #1979 (isolation #201) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:43 pm

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I guess deaths always resolve after actions? Okay never mind
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Post Post #1982 (isolation #202) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:46 pm

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We could always just lynch a50
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Post Post #2024 (isolation #203) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:55 pm

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Not to change the subject to something that's likely irrelevant but I just realized I forgot to ask what's the goal of jailing an outed cop if that cop will never get to act

Like the sequence of events to get anything from cop would have to be exactly
N2 vig shoots, jk jails cop, vig somehow gets shot (X->1)
N3 jk/cop each flip a coin (25% to block the nk / 25% to get a cop result depending on scum's target)?

Alternative would be something like
N2 vig shoots (X->1)
a. Cop/jk gets shot (X->2)
b. Cop/jk somehow live
N3
a. Vig has 2 shots now, possibly in 6:1 where they're useful?
b. Cop/jk each flip a coin like above
I think?
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Post Post #2028 (isolation #204) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:59 pm

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In post 2024, ruru wrote:possibly in 6:1 where they're useful?
Maybe ignore this part
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Post Post #2102 (isolation #205) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:00 pm

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If he claimed cop he was getting quickhammered
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Post Post #2103 (isolation #206) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:00 pm

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In post 1580, pinturicchio wrote:Mathdino unsorted, wanna sort him to get better reads about the gamestate
HeWhoSwims conftown
ofrhz town
ruru town
the worst unsortable for me
Zoronos town but tired of him
davesaz scumlean
BlackStar null
HitAlt scumlean
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Post Post #2111 (isolation #207) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:47 pm

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xd
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Post Post #2131 (isolation #208) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:22 am

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In post 2125, pinturicchio wrote:if I was scum I would claim Cop, I've hinted it a lot, and I would've said that my hypoclaim was false, that I checked Something Smart but I had to play along with Dino
?

You already outed yourself as very likely not cop so no I don't think you could just claim cop

When did you start scumreading blackstar
5. I assume that I was rolecopped last night, and that's why Mathdino has been so eager to push me, since he knew I would claim VT and that I was the most likely mislynch for today.
You aren't the only vt claim, we could've just lynched HA

I think pushing you here makes more sense for scum if you
aren't
already rolecopped
So in conclusion: I played in favour of the Cop all along, and thanks to me he/she would have survived a night or two. I knew I became expendable after my D1, so I tried to make the best for town. Mathdino, instead, tried to push Dave, realized he would get attention on himself if he did, and went to plan A: lynching me. I can only assume I was the designated D3 lynch, but things went wrong and Dino had to reduce the lynchpool. That's why I started townreading HitAlt, but unsorted both the duckling and Zoronos after a while, 'cause there was some evidence to believe they could be partners with Dino, but Blackstar alone makes much more sense and Dino being the "town leader" (said by himself) he could protect Blackstar until the end of times. He has the alibi: "he has a 100% killing PRs on night", so what? Strategy is strategy, and this was a good one. I assume Dino already knows who the other two PRs are, so asking for a Cop check on him is useless: Cop will die tonight for sure.
I hope you realize how likely the dinosaur is to get copped and how much it costs for him to not shoot a pr n1 (and then there's jjh's claim to explain)

And blackstar is town so this isn't really useful if you flip town

So, suppose blackstar is town and the dinosaur is probably town. Who do you think is scum then?
PS: me being partners with jjh makes sense for someone? Have you seen my interactions with him? Have you seen when and how I voted for him? I was pushing his wagon since the begining; no matter that I was reluctant with my vote, that was a general rule I applied on D1. The important thing to consider is that I agreed with NSG since the begining and pushed as much as I could. I'm not stupid, that would be an awful scum strategy. I mean, bussing is ok and I have no problem with that, but that's not bussing, that's plain stupidity.
The only thing that really makes me doubt the jjh bus theory is that he's framer

About it being bad strategy, could you really have stopped the jjh lynch?
In post 1179, pinturicchio wrote:Yeah I get it, but I've been saying that jjh seams scummy since the begining of the game, since NSG's read on him.
I mean maybe NSG was lucky and pushed the right guy
, but his reaction in the early game was bad. But yes, I've not pushed him that much 'cause my reads sucks ass in this game because of lack of motivation early in this day and along midday too.
This doesn't sound like pushing as much as you could

Also wow this really sounds like tmi now that I reread it

I thought you said nsg's case was good, so where did the bolded come from?
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Post Post #2141 (isolation #209) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:31 am

Post by ruru »

You're nitpicking to convince yourself that I'm still the better option to lynch today. Me saying "maybe NSG was lucky" is equal to "maybe the case was bad but she got an awful reaction from jjh and that was enough to believe jjh was being scummy", so no, not tmi, not even close.
But you originally said the case was good

That's why I'm wondering if you called it good at first (even though you're later saying it was bad/lucky) because you knew jjh is scum

Also like, I do already think you're scum based on your posting, so I don't really need to nitpick about that

The only thing I'm not convinced on is you shooting nsg. So if you want me to defend you here, you need to convince me that you would never shoot nsg basically
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Post Post #2146 (isolation #210) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:48 am

Post by ruru »

Is ofrhz non-mechanically sortable in this game

I'm leaning town now, but in the "d1
guesses
reads" sense except it's d2
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Post Post #2180 (isolation #211) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:20 pm

Post by ruru »

UNVOTE:

For the record I don't prefer HA over pin now that pin claimed

Can we plan night actions

My ideas so far are like

Cop+vig act tonight

If jk or jk+cop get shot, do nothing
If cop or cop+vig get shot, jk jails a likely NK every night until X expires, vig does nothing
If vig and scum both shoot cop, vig shoots again tomorrow
If vig gets shot, jk and cop each flip a coin (25% chance of doing something useful regardless of what scum do)

Actually if pin flips red, is tomorrow still massclaim? Esepcially if jk or vig get shot tonight, there's a pretty good reason not to out cop in 6:1
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Post Post #2187 (isolation #212) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:52 pm

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In post 2181, Mathdino wrote:- Vig gets shot = use the jailkeeper as the cop, cop doesn't act
Hmm I don't understand

If there are 2 scums and jk claims a scum target ahead of time, the other scum will do the nk

Otherwise scum will just shoot jk first and then cop and we get no information, right?

What am I missing here
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Post Post #2188 (isolation #213) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:04 pm

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In post 2180, ruru wrote:If vig gets shot, jk and cop each flip a coin (25% chance of doing something useful regardless of what scum do)
Also this was referring to jk specifically targetting cop if it wasn't clear
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Post Post #2197 (isolation #214) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:47 pm

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I suppose we should wait for our confirmed jailkeeper to speak but I'm ready to lynch him now honestly
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Post Post #2199 (isolation #215) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by ruru »

Hmm

Cop:
- No result if cop gets shot by either faction

JK:
- Telegraphs a non-vig target reducing docpool
- Fake guilty on scum's target
- Fake guilty if scum choose to no-shoot
- Could hit the vig

I think I like cop better
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Post Post #2205 (isolation #216) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:17 pm

Post by ruru »

I guess there are some edge cases where jk is good

Like if jk+scum both target cop it's really nice because cop can just claim
And I guess jk+scum on vig is also marginally better than cop+scum on vig?

But that's really specific compared to the ones I listed
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Post Post #2206 (isolation #217) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:21 pm

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I'm not L1ing because like anyone could quickhammer, including you, probably without being confirmed scum

And it seems like poor form to let the day end without hws regardless of how I personally feel about it
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Post Post #2210 (isolation #218) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:27 pm

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Huh

If pin's trying to shorten the day because he's scum then how is me not wanting him quicklynched scummy
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Post Post #2212 (isolation #219) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:29 pm

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Oh you're talking about his cop ability nvm
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Post Post #2220 (isolation #220) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:07 pm

Post by ruru »

Can we all agree tw goes first in massclaim tomorrow regardless of flips
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Post Post #2222 (isolation #221) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:11 pm

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Also a rolecop flip on not-him makes him significantly more likely to be scum I think
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Post Post #2225 (isolation #222) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:18 pm

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Rolecop bussing framer is super costly to scum, and doctor benefits from being PR-read more than the other roles

I think his play makes more sense from doctor than rolecop
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Post Post #2227 (isolation #223) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:29 pm

Post by ruru »

I guess, but in this case the top wagons were tw and jjh

I'm thinking if scum wanted scum.tw lynched, they could have done that instead?

Maybe I'm overestimating the difference that third scum + tw not softing could have made? But I feel like tw softing was a pretty significant factor in jjh getting lynched
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Post Post #2239 (isolation #224) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:24 pm

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Post Post #2244 (isolation #225) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:37 pm

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fwiw I value a cop check on ofrhz highest atm
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Post Post #2245 (isolation #226) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:37 pm

Post by ruru »

Can we end the day now
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Post Post #2251 (isolation #227) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:05 pm

Post by ruru »

*shrug*

I feel like "scum don't chainsaw defend scum" is a form of "too scummy to be scum"
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Post Post #2423 (isolation #228) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:28 am

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In post 2355, HitAlt wrote:Ruru shot me because I was useless.
Can't blame em.
I had a gutread of scum on TW the whole game and I never really got over it.
That ruined all my other reads for me and caused me to lose motivation, sorry to everyone for that.

Weölll, at least my read on TW WAS correct....
I basically shot you because you were vt and it solved the game, I didn't expect you to flip scum
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Post Post #2424 (isolation #229) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:40 am

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I think my pr tell (aside from shooting SS) this game was chainsaw defending the dinosaur d1
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Post Post #2425 (isolation #230) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:59 am

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In post 2255, Zoronos wrote:I would normally agree, but it wasn’t a simple chainsaw. He wasn’t just attacking ofhrz’s attackers, he was loudly proclaiming she was town.

*shrug*
There’s a ‘too blatant to be scum’ element to it, yeah. But there’s a spectrum here, and that was *really* blatant.
I also rethought this during night phase and I see why you're right now, specifically because ofrhz was a possible lynch at the time
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Post Post #2426 (isolation #231) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:10 am

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Also I think if that d2 situation happens again I think I'm just lolhammering pin the first time he got to L1

I almost did it and dragging out the day pretty much only gave scum extra role information

If I get shot for being a cop suspect because of it then that's good I think because scum needed to shoot cop or cop's target n2 to win anyway
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Post Post #2427 (isolation #232) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:11 am

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Thanks for hosting a50! You made the game a lot more entertaining :D
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Post Post #2430 (isolation #233) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:39 am

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In post 2428, pinturicchio wrote:ruru I'm so proud of you, it's been a long way since Newbie 1859 where you made us lose the game, now look at you, catching your ex partner :lol:
So I guess I just always make you lose as scum? Maybe you shouldn't sign games with me in them :lol:
It was fun, but I blame myself for my D1, I think I could've been read as town if I didn't have IRL problems at that time.
I was like passively scumreading you d1, but I feel like your d1 isn't too easy to read anyway

I think the cop question which I guess was eod1 and that one post d2 which gutpinged me really strongly (actually way more strongly than I indicated, because I wanted to see the HA wagon and I didn't want to out myself further by pushing you when you could be vig) is what screwed you over

Sorry again about the RL issues :cry:
Duckling I really wanted to have more fun in thread with you but I couldn't :(

By the way guys, I said it sometimes before, but this is my last game until who knows when! It has been great playing with all of you, I love challenges, and this place sure provides them! Hope to see you around!
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Post Post #2431 (isolation #234) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:42 am

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Oops, I hit submit by accident

Anyway I hope you come back soon, I enjoy playing with you
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Post Post #2432 (isolation #235) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:47 am

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In post 2429, Almost50 wrote:I'm blushing :oops:

Which reminds me.. what were we supposed to discuss post-game???
Probably something related to this? :lol:
ruru wrote:jjh voters: northsidegal, the worst, ruru, BlackStar (?), HeWhoSwims,
ofrhz,
Mathdino,
HWS voters: davesaz, ofrhz, BlackStar, <- Interesting because HWS literally asked what JK should do at the start of the day, I had him as likely JK for the whole day until jjh claimed
tw voters: HitAlt, jjh927, ofrhz, Mathdino,
SS voters: ruru, pinturicchio, Zoronos
ofrhz voters: ruru, northsidegal, BlackStar, the worst, HeWhoSwims,

Md asking for JK crumbs actually makes no sense, I have no idea what's happening with him this game

Like obviously jjh was 99% scum as there's no real reason for hws to fakeclaim (he could fakeclaim cop/vig and either draw another claim out of town or survive the day if he got lynched next)

Suppose jjh crumbed and HWS didn't, would md seriously advocate lynching HWS? Super weird...

Likely nks (if I were scum anyway):
Md > HWS > nsg > zoro/ruru

Actually likely nk: HWS

Vigpool:
{BlackStar, Something_Smart, ofrhz, the worst, pinturicchio, davesaz}

BlackStar: Kinda weird treatment of jjh slot. I think I should sheep nsg and not shoot him for now though?

Something_Smart: Would probably move me up the NK list. Likely scum, policy-worthy regardless, and if he's actually playing like this because he's cop
in a setup with vig
then I'm policy lynching him every game in the future because I'm sure there are ways to avoid the NK without literally doing nothing all game

ofrhz: Interesting defense of jjh but not sure if it's what scum would actually do in that position. Not being very useful town, but I kinda townread her AtE. Very bad voting overall, shooting her might move me up the NK list too although I did stop showing suspicion toward the end of the day.

the worst: Voted well although jjh could have been a bus according to nsg. More likely to be doctor than rolecop I think, which makes him a better shot. Technically he could be cop but I hate his gameplay if he is. Unfortunately also a reasonably likely doc target if he's town, especially if the rolecop isn't in {ofrhz, SS}, and that would be a major disaster. Between HA and nsg he'll probably be a big distraction d2 if he's town. Md's eod defense of him was interesting (although it could easily be any of town defending a townread, town defending a scumread to try to mess with doctor, town trying to fake PR read him to get him shot, scum defending scum, etc.). Not shooting him after I doctor-read him in the thread might reduce my chances of getting shot too. Or maybe they will just shoot me for talking too much about vig/doc (which is something I would probably be doing even more if I were VT really...) Anyway not sure this is the best shot.

pinturicchio: Policy-worthy AtE posts and I noticed two things I've only seen from him as scum. If he's going to be "different" all game as town due to RL then that's also worth just policy vigging. Losing someone with a cop check ability on me is decently -EV but I'm not getting lynched in this game anyway so whatever. Only problem is 999 which I'm not sure is in his scumrange.

davesaz: Really bad voting but kinda towny bad and over an admittedly small sample size his town winrate is much better than his scum winrate so policy vigging him seems inappropriate.
Now given that philosophy, if someone has a mysterious read D1 and refuses to explain it, they're scum.
This is scummy logic though

Peekpool:
{Md, SS, BlackStar, pinturicchio, HA, davesaz, ofrhz, tw}

Peek blackstar town seems plausible (kinda null and unlikely to get shot by either faction) and doesn't interfere with my d2 activities
If blackstar is shot:
* Peek blackstar town (maybe causes scum to PR read me because who would make that up? and I doubt everyone plans peeks during night phase)
* Peek HA town?

Hopefully the actual cop will check Blackstar or HA or something because I feel like checking nulltown is a lot better than checking nullscum in a setup with vig

Ugh, this kinda implicates me but I feel like it's objectively best and unlikely to get wifom-docced

ofrhz/davesaz should wait for town consensus although if it was lylo I'd probably shoot one of them instead

ruru shoots Something_Smart
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Post Post #2437 (isolation #236) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:26 am

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In post 2433, Almost50 wrote:Interesting that you had both living scums at the bottom of your read list (considering you said Dave was "towny bad") yet have decided to shoot S_S anyhow. (Btw, I always use S_S for Something_Smart because -to me- SS is SnarkySnowman).
I guess a large part of my eventual reason for shooting SS is that I vanilla-or-scum-read both him and tw, but I thought scum would be vanilla-reading tw too and he was universally scumread meaning they might try to frame him with doctor (also, not wanting to throw the game if the dinosaur had a really good reason for leaving tw alive)

And I really didn't want to shoot into a doc save because the nightkill is overpowered so I wanted poe as fast as possible. It felt pretty constricting trying to not shoot a PR, not shoot a doc save, not shoot a townread, and not implicate myself

It was unfortunate that I was also the one really pushing SS d1 (but like, wifom, so whatever I guess?), and that the other player who had him at the bottom of her readslist got shot n1, which I wasn't entirely expecting

I didn't realize I would actually end up shooting him until the nightphase

Not shooting pin was definitely a mistake made by not reading more of his meta though
I was a bit worried while reading your PM that you;d end up shooting BlackStar (that would have changed the game proceedings dramatically, not only because the town would lose the Cop but because Dino would be the prime suspect because of that kill, and then you would have to claim to save him...)
He was probably my least serious consideration

I respect nsg's reads a lot more than my own (also why I felt better shooting SS)
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Post Post #2439 (isolation #237) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:46 am

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In post 2438, Something_Smart wrote:scum would be better off focusing on the cop
Yes, also surviving n1 matters a lot more than n2 anyway, so not implicating myself was kind of my lowest priority

I would likely not play this way in a different setup
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