NY 213 - Game Over!

[Kublai Khan]

Hello.

VOTE: Pine

[Kublai Khan]

/confirm

The tension waiting for SUPP results is palpable.

I still want to know what SUPP results are.

It's a popularity contest.

(Speakeasy User Popularity Poll)

[Kublai Khan]

Public service announcement: I plan on active lurking through D1 at least. This is a very large game, and my reads are traditionally sub-random in crowded D1s.

If he can do this so can I.

Yeah, let's all active lurk and lynch Pine on day 1.

[Kublai Khan]

Kublai Khan(3), Edosurist(1), Dunnstral(4), Texcat(4)

Okay, dumb question, but what do the numbers after the name mean?

[Kublai Khan]

Public service announcement: I plan on active lurking through D1 at least. This is a very large game, and my reads are traditionally sub-random in crowded D1s.

If he can do this so can I.

Yeah, let's all active lurk and lynch Pine on day 1.

Hey Khan. Guide me.

The pact is made. Victory is assured.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: osuka

Scummiest vibe.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Almost50

Feels like you're setting up a "hey! I tell bad jokes!" crutch to lean on at a later time.

[Kublai Khan]

Huh. Second time Ausuka is mentioning a traitor.

[Kublai Khan]

Huh. Second time Ausuka is mentioning a traitor.

Yep, and I've explained why I believe there is a traitor. Do you actually scumread me for this?

If you were a traitor and wanted to flag to your team who you are, then bringing up the possibility of a traitor apropos of nothing is a pretty good beacon.

[Kublai Khan]

Huh. Second time Ausuka is mentioning a traitor.

Yep, and I've explained why I believe there is a traitor. Do you actually scumread me for this?

If you were a traitor and wanted to flag to your team who you are, then bringing up the possibility of a traitor apropos of nothing is a pretty good beacon.

If that's true then dueling on it persistently is another way of signaling it to your team.

*low whistle*

Not bad.
- Unprompted chainsaw defending
- "No, you!"
- Lying ("persistently")

I was voting your for the stupid BS stuff you were doing earlier, you could have ridden that out. But now you are super number 1 scum with a bullet.

[Kublai Khan]

Also it's not because the game is uninteresting, it's because I really am busy and don't have the time to involve myself into the game rn.

But this game IS uninteresting so far.

*smokebomb*

*lurk*

I see you there.

Not Voting (11) - Fumuki, Creature, WhemeStar, Lalendra, Lovebird, Andriod18, Myloninja13, Scioness Sajj, Flavor Leaf,

Pine

, Srceenplay

Join the top bandwagon, lurker.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Almost50

Feels like you're setting up a "hey! I tell bad jokes!" crutch to lean on at a later time.

Don't really like this vote that much; feels like the classic 'vote the scummy person' d1 in RVS.

What are your thoughts about A50?

Post 143 shows me really disliking his play & post 152 shows him reacting really nastily to being called scum. What are

your

thoughts on Almost50?

[Kublai Khan]

Post 143 shows me really disliking his play & post 152 shows him reacting really nastily to being called scum. What are your thoughts on Almost50?

A50 and his reads list is actually pretty fcking towny and am liking him as town already; not the reads but the effort he put in to make a pile of collective crap in one post. Don't think scum would put this much effort into something so early on just to draw attention to themselves

I've seen scum do it before.

But fine, this will be an "I told you so" thing for later.

[Kublai Khan]

@Almost50 - You're voting Edosurist for sheeping, but JarJarDrinks and Lovebird have hoped on the Edosurist bandwagon in literally the same sheeping way. What's the difference?

[Kublai Khan]

JarJar's reasoning was a clear joke (the reasoning, not the vote). He sees what I see but has decided to copy & paste the exact wordings Edo used for voting me.

Yeah, I thought that at the time, too. But time passes and he hasn't changed it or justified it.

And Lovebird's whole post is... hypocritical at best. She doesn't seem to like one-line posts with votes. Which is the same thing she does. She's not on your townlist, so you've apparently have some reservation about her. So what's the reservation?

However, I am not imposing my own read of anyone on anyone else.

This is a game of mafia. Everybody is trying to impose their reads on others regardless of what faction you're a part of. Claiming otherwise just makes you sound like you're trying to project an aura of "I'm harmless". Feels insincere and kinda conniving. I'm trying not to tunnel, but comments like that just wave a red flag.

But if you're not ignoring me, I'd like to go back to how bad Post 142 was.

If that's true then dueling on it persistently is another way of signaling it to your team.

Did you really think that me calling out Ausuka on mentioned the possibility of a mafia traitor out of the blue was a way to signal the mafia team that *I* was actually the traitor? Does that really sound logistically plausible to you?

Also, I mentioned it once, Ausuka questioned me and I answered. Why did you think the word "persistently" accurately described my actions?

Why is Ausuka on your townread list?

[Kublai Khan]

@Ircher

- Does Osuka have the wrong number of votes?

@Those not voting - Hey... Vote someone.

I’m pretty sure it’s just me forgetting to change vote numbers, so yes, the vote number is wrong.
Edit2: The number of votes on Osuka has been fixed.
~Ircher

[Kublai Khan]

You going to drop a vote at some point, Scioness Sajj? You've made 4 posts all game, all of them defending Creature.

[Kublai Khan]

I'll start it then. The Almost50 wagon sadly isn't going to happen today.

VOTE: Scioness Sajj

[Kublai Khan]

do you always interrupt engagements or is it a special case?

What were you engaged in?

Actually. Kublai, do you have any reason to not vote for JarJar?

No. He's not on my townlist right now. But not near the top of the scumlist either. If other people weren't pushing him, I might be.

--
I still don't understand the Creature-love. But whatever.
--
Totally understand the Performer-hate. Good lord.
--
Dunnstral's Post 440 is on-point. I'd like both Almost50 and Creature to address it.
--
Creature explaining what he doesn't like about texcat would be superawesomecool too.
--

It's not just about the size of the posts.

Is this a shitty game where I keep guessing reasons and eventually you go "oh yeah, that's it"?

You've got townreads on Hopkirk, Lalendra, and JarJarDrinks. You've got a scumread on Edosurist.
Could you explain why for each one?

While you're at it, can you comment on Almost50, Osuka, and Performer?

[Kublai Khan]

No. He's not on my townlist right now. But not near the top of the scumlist either. If other people weren't pushing him, I might be.

Scion is a vanity wagon so join us over here:

VOTE: JarJar

Eh.. not really vanity. It was a prodding vote. Which worked. But yeah, let's move the vote.

VOTE: JarJarDrinks

[Kublai Khan]

UNVOTE: JarJarDrinks

Huh. An unvote (instead of a vote transfer) on someone who is far from lynch implies that you read something that gives you a solid townread of JarJarDrinks. What was it?

[Kublai Khan]

It feels like you voted your scum buddy for some distancing then it backfired, now hes yelling at you in scumchat.

I'm old and out of practice, but is day-scumchat a common thing?

[Kublai Khan]

Setup Details

1. All private threads possess day talk.

More common than reading the rules evidently. :}

Dammit. I was scanning all the 'honor' and 'miscellaneous' stuff and overlooked it.

Still, I don't understand the Golden Robster move. There's no downside to letting a vote sit for a bit while you contemplate a next move. Unless that person is in danger of being lynched (and you don't want that to happen) or that person does something super towny and you feel weird having a vote sit on a super-town.

Why unvote out of the blue?

[Kublai Khan]

I'll start it then. The Almost50 wagon sadly isn't going to happen today.

VOTE: Scioness Sajj

Why do you say this? It was still tied for number one when you cast your vote elsewhere.

Because lots of people were giving a Day 1 townpass to Almost50. So the wagon really had no momentum or potential for momentum.

[Kublai Khan]

It's not a "pass" when the guy is obviously Town.

I want to believe that. But spidey-sense says no.

[Kublai Khan]

*twiddling thumbs waiting for Lovebird and Creature to post.*

[Kublai Khan]

KHAN dont be lurky. You're supposed to be showing me how to be awesome.

C'mon EspeciallyTheLies.. You're on indefinite V/LA and you're going to bust my balls for lurking?

But I'm bored waiting for responses, so I should do something.

VOTE: Osuka

[Kublai Khan]

Actually. Kublai, do you have any reason to not vote for JarJar?

No. He's not on my townlist right now. But not near the top of the scumlist either. If other people weren't pushing him, I might be.

at this point in time, jarjar has 3 votes on him. that's barely a wagon

why are you trying to hard to not do anything meaningful?

Neat. You've barely talked about me all game. I vote you, then suddenly you scum-read me with only rhetorically loaded questions thrown my way.

I like WhemeStar and one of {TheRampage/Performer} as your partners too.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm not really thinking Osuka is scum here tbh.

Why?

[Kublai Khan]

I mostly agree with their points here, and I also don't really understand most of the scumreads going their way.

Could you be more vague?

[Kublai Khan]

@Flavor Leaf - You have 4 votes and half as many reads.

[Kublai Khan]

Osuka really doesn't feel like he's trying to get lynched for his buddies' towncred + doesn't look like he's trying to set up good associatives either. Really just feels like he's scumhunting genuinely.

His 6 scumreads are all on his wagon and you think he's genuinely scum-hunting?

[Kublai Khan]

The second one is something that's hard to explain in words? but it should be obvious just from the gamestate, the lack of a clear PoE, and the fact that even if osuka was to be scum, he's just being bussed and there are likely 5 we don't know about. just seems blatantly obvious that this is a normal game and town aren't dominating.

Getting strong scum-vibes from you Ausuka. You're not trying to help or add to any town cohesion, you're just attempting to disrupt it.

[Kublai Khan]

UNVOTE:

Charles510 isn't scummy to you anymore? He's still got more posts than you.

[Kublai Khan]

Osuka really doesn't feel like he's trying to get lynched for his buddies' towncred + doesn't look like he's trying to set up good associatives either. Really just feels like he's scumhunting genuinely.

His 6 scumreads are all on his wagon and you think he's genuinely scum-hunting?

Yes. Townies scumread people scumreading them more than people not scumreading them. Not to mention there are, very likely, several scum on his wagon.

But all 6? Out of a wagon of 9? That's ridiculous numbers. You can argue that he's a scrambling townie, but you're not. You're painting a picture that Osuka is thoughtfully scum-reading the game. If anything, is Osuka were to flip town, *you're* the one building a good associative tell of trying to rescue him.

The second one is something that's hard to explain in words? but it should be obvious just from the gamestate, the lack of a clear PoE, and the fact that even if osuka was to be scum, he's just being bussed and there are likely 5 we don't know about. just seems blatantly obvious that this is a normal game and town aren't dominating.

Getting strong scum-vibes from you Ausuka. You're not trying to help or add to any town cohesion, you're just attempting to disrupt it.

Oh? What have I been doing to disrupt town cohesion?

Well, the thing I quoted and the fact that you suddenly are trying very hard to disrupt the Osuka-wagon and start a counter-wagon. You've noted 3 out of 9 to be scum-reads for you, which means there's still 6 townies there. So even if you are town and 100% correct, it's still the biggest cohesive town effort all game and you're disrupting it.

You've pointed to nothing that justifies your sudden "take-charge" attitude except that I put a ninth vote. Making a lynch a viable thing. Now suddenly Osuka is a "gut town-read who is genuinely scum-hunting" (paraphased) and we all must go after active lurkers.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm saying that Osuka is town and genuinely trying to find scum, yes. I don't agree with all of his reads and I'm not saying he's some god of townplay if that's what you're trying to imply, but I do think that he's town and the fact that he's the only wagon currently is problematic.

Okay, here's my problem with your thinking.

1) Having a large wagon isn't a bad thing. Even if it's on town. Large wagons give town way more information on people's alignments than having 3-4 person wagons until deadline kicks around. Large wagons force people to make decisions under a bit of stress and that gives away alignment and associations. 3-4 person wagons just give the town a whole bunch of squabbling.

Here's the situation on the Osuka wagon. Of the 8 people on it (everyone besides me), I have a pretty good townread on three of them (Dunnstral, Texcat, Pine), an ok townread on 2 (Almost50 & Hopkirk) and a scumread on Performer and TheRampage. Osuka has been neutral to slight scumread all day for me. My two scumreads are the ones that justified their votes.

So I jump on this wagon. It gets closer to a lynch and depending what Performer/TheRampage/Osuka do gives me indications.

Plus, creating a large wagon has people declare townreads out of nowhere. Look at Whemestar asking someone to make a case on Osuka. He's not questioning anyone in particular. He's just tossing a question into the ether. Do you think he's scum-hunting or looking for an excuse to pile-on? Why does Myloninja13 declare a townread? Does Creature's read look legit? If you think Osuka is town, surely you're looking for scum trying for towncred in the face of a large wagon, right?

2) What is your history with Osuka? Every single one of his scumreads are from his wagon. The only way you get a townread from such OMGUS behavior is if you know Osuka and you know he's not that good of a mafia player.

3) And yes, it does look like you are white-knighting Osuka. He wasn't a townread for you at all until just now and he's you're 5th strongest townread. Walk me through the exact point where you decided he's town and why. Saying "all future reads are gut reads until further notice" is scummy bullshit.

4) Oh shit, you're 14. Okay, that explains some things. I feel dumb spending so much time typing all that stuff above.

Also, Performer is scum. Osuka is probably town.

VOTE: Performer

[Kublai Khan]

@Flavor Leaf - Why arre you playing this game from an open alt? Why not just play as Boonskiies?

[Kublai Khan]

Hi guys, sorry I have to be away for a bit. But I'll be back in no time .

V/LA 26th Tuesday 7pm to 27th Friday 8am AEST

Oh, noooo.. What could this game possibly be like without a strong Myloninja13 presence?

[Kublai Khan]

The most recent vote by Khan - why?

The hop onto TheRampage looked opportunistic af.

Plus I went back and re-read 432.

@wavemode - Why do you feel like Days 1,2,3 don't matter? Have you seriously never lynch scum on Day 1?

'm neighbours with Performer and wavemode. I'm confident wave is scum and once we lynch him and he flips red me and performer can function as masons.

Huh. Now, generally I'd say it's very common that if a three person neighbor team pops up in a large, there's going to be some immediate thinking of "there's a strong chance one of them is scum". So if you were the scum in the trio, would you lurk like crazy or would you be trying hard to get on people's townlists?

Because Wavemode is the former and Performer and you are the latter.

Also, why didn't you come out with the information sooner?

neighbourhoods are NAI. I'm not scumreading wave because I'm in a hood with him and a townread, I scumread him based on play.

Ugggh.

[Kublai Khan]

let's be honest, day 1 read accuracy in a large is going to be roughly as good as rolling dice. day 1 lynch accuracy is going to be much worse than that because if a wagon is correct scum will be trying to derail it and if it's incorrect they will be throwing fuel on its fire.

this is all made worse by the fact that the sheer volume of content of a 25p drowns out any one individual's voice. in the grand scheme of things, even if i had fire reads today, i'd never get this town to agree on lynching them anyway, and then they would just get rid of me and move on

my point isn't to not try - i am analyzing the game to a degree. my point is I'm not going to get bent out of shape about day 1 when it's not that effective or consequential and most people's reads are based on flimsy meta, regardless

I disagree. I've found that my initial impressions tend to bear a lot of fruit. People who are lying to you have to get to know you a little bit before their lies are effective.

Also, you didn't start this game with no info. Why haven't you scum-hunted your neighbors? Do you have any thoughts on whether they are more likely to be own or scum? Do you have day chat with them?

[Kublai Khan]

Do you have day chat with them?

Wait, you do have day chat. How did that go?

[Kublai Khan]

Like I said Vax, I am cool with being the lynch. We are down 2 people at work and I am pulling doubles, and then my brother and his family showed up over the weekend and are staying the week. In a game this big, I would rather be lynched as opposed to replacing out because this would be a headache to replace into.

If you can't commit the time to play, then replace out. There are people scummier than lurkers, so we can't lynch lurkers but we also can't just let you float until endgame.

[Kublai Khan]

@Vaxkiller - What's your read breakdown of the game so far?

[Kublai Khan]

Wait, you do have day chat. How did that go?

Hey, Wavemode, Performer, Ausuka.. Can you guys summarize the Day Chat?

[Kublai Khan]

You could show me 40 games with 3 person neighborhoods in a row and it wouldn't make this game have a higher than random chance of a scum neighbor - this especially feels like a mod who would fully randomize neighbors

I admit I go back and forth on this a lot. In game balancing, having a neighborhood means that town is likelier to lynch within that neighborhood through sheer paranoia. So if it's an all-town neighborhood, hopefully the mod realizes that that is a pro-mafia element and balanced accordingly.

If we lynch someone in the neighborhood and they flip town, then we need to realize that we are likely committing to lynching within the neighborhood tomorrow as well unless new information steers the day.

Since Ausuka moves from her rainbow reads list on 6/25 with Wavemode as 6th scummiest to voting wavemode 24 hours later and claiming neighborhood with no wavemode post in between.

I want to know what changed to make wavemode scum in that 24 hours and why claim neighbor with 6 days to go before deadline instead of the first RL day of play.

[Kublai Khan]

Wait, you do have day chat. How did that go?

Hey, Wavemode, Performer, Ausuka.. Can you guys summarize the Day Chat?

Since Ausuka moves from her rainbow reads list on 6/25 with Wavemode as 6th scummiest to voting wavemode 24 hours later and claiming neighborhood with no wavemode post in between.

I want to know what changed to make wavemode scum in that 24 hours and why claim neighbor with 6 days to go before deadline instead of the first RL day of play.

HEY LOOK. AUSUKA IS POSTING WHILE IGNORING MY POSTS AND QUESTIONS. I'M GOING TO CALL ATTENTION TO THAT.

[Kublai Khan]

@Flavor Leaf - Is there a towny reason not to put down a vote anywhere on Day 1?

[Kublai Khan]

Pending wavemode confirming Performance's daychat recap, I wanna lynch Ausuka.

[Kublai Khan]

read on wavemode changed when I looked at his ISO and thought "oh he's scummier than I thought"

That is a pointless answer.

WHAT SPECIFICALLY

was it about his posts that made you think: "Oh, only someone with a mafia PM would post this way".

[Kublai Khan]

and Ausuka is prob town now. I don't think scum outs the neighborhood.

I do.

ok so scum-Ausuka would only do this if the other 2 members were town right.

So like, Ausuka outs the hood to get Wave lynched who then flips green and now Ausuka not only looks bad for pushing the mislynch but is one of 2 members of the hood left?

Seems like terrible scum play.

Is Ausuka also pushing the idea of it being an all-town neighborhood at the same time?

[Kublai Khan]

@Almost50 - Eh, there's a good reason for Ausuka to not be lynched.

[Kublai Khan]

lol people were scumreading Ausuka?

This feels scummy, btw.

[Kublai Khan]

Did you misquote me there, Performer?

[Kublai Khan]

The hood is immaterial. Doesn't matter one way or the other.

This is wrong. The hood is material. Guessing the setup is part of the game whether people like it or not.

lynching within the hood isn't town-oriented play;

why thin the hood d1 when it will become super apparent who scum is regardless of whether we lynch them

mafia will become paranoid about them having power roles apart from the hood and will try and nk them

I'm coming around to thinking the first two lines are probably right. Not the third line though. Plus, ignoring the hood for today means all we're doing is kicking that can down the road a bit.

Can we flashwagon at the last minute and who can enough people agree on? Probably one of the active lurkers.

Too much pushback on Osuka or Creature. TheRampage is being replaced.

Pine is active lurking, but I liked his few contributions. Same with Scioness Sajj.

Flavor Leaf? Myloninja13? ArcAngel9? Andriod18?

[Kublai Khan]

@PenguinPower

Ausuka, Wavemode, & Performer are in a neighborhood. Ausuka is Innocent Child.

[Kublai Khan]

So why the slot that the IC is not advocating for? Like, that might make sense, but why are the votes not with the IC in the hood if that's the reason? Did Wavemode claim?

Because ICs are people and people are fallible. The case is that Wavemode lurks.

People on Performer's wagon is that he comes off as very insincere in his posting.

Now we're entertaining a thought that maybe we should lynch outside the neighborhood entirely.

Vaxkiller claims vig. Which is a terrible time to claim that.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: texcat

I don't like their content

Which specific part? I've got him down as a townlean.

[Kublai Khan]

@Pine - Disengage your active lurking now.

[Kublai Khan]

PenguinPower is town

The guy who replaced TheRampage? Why?

[Kublai Khan]

I'm kinda wavering on Performance. Wavemode is challenging the top levels of the scummy charts.

I don't know if this game is active or coordinated enough to change course though.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm kinda wavering on Performance. Wavemode is challenging the top levels of the scummy charts.

I don't know if this game is active or coordinated enough to change course though.

What do you mean on Wave there, that could read one of two ways.

Well, scum who claim on Day 1 are in a bad position where they can't do much for their team because they don't know tracker/watcher/etc situation of the town. So I kinda mentally put them on a backburner. But Wavemode's unprompted naming 3 people on his wagon as town feels manipulative and self-serving.

[Kublai Khan]

yeah and i'm saying that's literally never self-serving in real life lmao. i don't know what shit kind of newbie games you play in where people back off you because you call them town but that's super awful strategy

in fact im curious, can someone link me an example of that EVER working on ANYONE? even in a newbie game? like, i've literally never heard of that

You've never heard of subtle emotional manipulations in a mafia game? How long have you been playing mafia?

People don't respond with "well gee this guy is actually pretty swell", but it can be the little nudge that pushes a wavering player to compromise. So, no. I can't link you to an example.

[Kublai Khan]

@Flavor Leaf - Is there a towny reason not to put down a vote anywhere on Day 1?

Yep. Not paying enough attention, and i like analyzing the main wagons on day 1

Hey Vaxkiller, if you need a useless person to shoot may I offer up Flavor Leaf.

[Kublai Khan]

wavemode is the neighbor, not Whemestar.

[Kublai Khan]

Again, if we're going to move the lynch to a random useless person. Flavor Leaf needs rope.

[Kublai Khan]

My townieness will be proven eventually.

Oh, cool. We'll just leave you alive until endgame and aw shit, you were scum. We're all dead.

The "I'm gonna lurk Day 1 and be active later" role is already occupied by Pine, Creature, ETL, and maybe one or two others. At least they all voted and provided some content.

You are so under the radar it's ridiculous that I'm the only one calling attention to it.

[Kublai Khan]

Like, I don't know why people are whining about Android18 or wavemode or whoever else with Flavor Leaf around.

[Kublai Khan]

Neat. The no-content posters are wagoning a no-content poster for not posting content.

[Kublai Khan]

why are you voting them instead of performer?

Because -right now- I think we've been tricked to wagon 2 townies, one of which is a VT, the other is

unknown

Is there any reason you 100% believe VT claims?

also can I just mention for tomorrow in case I do die that it's really weird that me and perf are both passive PRs in the hood: IC/Vengeful: but Wave is vanilla? I suppose it's possible that wave is a town vanilla neighbour. but to me? it seems awkward and unlikely.

I have to admit, this bugs me as well. If Performer is Vengeful, then the VT claim seems off.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Kublai Khan]

Also, Kublai is coasting, and Jar Jar is slyly giving him support.

Not even a touch of irony?

[Kublai Khan]

I mean, you didn't just coast Day 1. You careful didn't put a vote anywhere or say anything significant. Of all the Day 1 ghosts, you were you most conspicuously trying not to have any interaction with anyone.

[Kublai Khan]

I mean, you didn't just coast Day 1. You careful didn't put a vote anywhere or say anything significant. Of all the Day 1 ghosts, you were you most conspicuously trying not to have any interaction with anyone.

Not that I tried not to have interaction, i just literally didn’t read the game, and didn’t have anything to say.

That's the ultimate perfect defense isn't it? Why'd you vote at deadline then?

[Kublai Khan]

so that wagon analysis is neat.

What wagon analysis? Are you just doing it in your head and announcing reads? You're not even going to show your logic?

[Kublai Khan]

I mean, you didn't just coast Day 1. You careful didn't put a vote anywhere or say anything significant. Of all the Day 1 ghosts, you were you most conspicuously trying not to have any interaction with anyone.

Not that I tried not to have interaction, i just literally didn’t read the game, and didn’t have anything to say.

That's the ultimate perfect defense isn't it? Why'd you vote at deadline then?

Because Performer was obv town and it was a countering wagon.

If I iso you, am I going to find evidence of you saying that Performer looked scummy to you?

[Kublai Khan]

What's your definition of "POLITICAL"?

[Kublai Khan]

Off topic: Duuude, boonskies. No freaking way lol!! You have too many alts. Barting to sf, oh man. I saw those new trains they had, they're nice.
---
Well, since I've played with you before, I have another lens to examine you from...hmm.

I’m a little north of Berkeley. I’m semi in this game now, so it’s easy to just make comments.

Perf’s town. His reads were very thought out, and that’s just doing the most as scum...-.-

Not going to quote Post 1804? Mr. "literally did not read the game"?

[Kublai Khan]

What's your definition of "POLITICAL"?

Reads for the sake of having said reads to gain favor in the social aspect of this game.

Scum state town reads/scum reads on people to get read in a certain way by other people. This happens subconsciously a lot of the times.

Okay. That's what I figured you meant.

Walk me through a few reasons why JarJarDrink's reads are political?

[Kublai Khan]

I’m probably a super strong PR this game and lurking for that reason.

Would you really tolerate other people defending themselves this way or is it part of your "known hypocrisy" meta-defense?

[Kublai Khan]

Look at them. He doesn’t actually believe them, and theyre there to get him read a specific way.

Quit chainsawing your buddy.

I'm not chainsawing. I told you at the end of Day 1 that I'd be on your ass for cagey (some might say politically non-voting) and you said that you'd make up for it with awesome wagon analysis on Day 2.

So I load up mafia scum, I see that Flavor Leaf has the lastest post of the game and I'm not see that "awesome analysis" that was promised. Instead I see some hand-waving "look how scummy that is" which is an easy way to jump on a bandwagon for a scummy player.

EXPLAIN YOURSELF SO THAT I CAN PLAINLY SEE YOUR MOTIVATIONS FOR WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

[Kublai Khan]

I’m also less than 15 posts within you.

Yeah. Fluff will do that.

And I've played with tons of players who brag about never being lynched and how thay should be buddied. They usually do it more as scum. Big old yawn to your braggadocio.

[Kublai Khan]

I feel like I was the first to vote him.

You’re just continuing your coasting, though.

Your wagon analysis never showed any day 1 votes for JarJarDrinks you could join up with?

[Kublai Khan]

You are literally coasting on reputation.

[Kublai Khan]

Man I want jar jar lynched but VOTE: Vax

Vax is like...obv town here.

Wat pls explain

A lot of scum fake claim vig. That explanationnon Vax is weak as hell.

Vig is literally one of the fake claims I have newer scum teammates claim if they look to be going down, because it gives a few days extra.

Vax did however take it back, and I get that, but the way Jar Jar explains that is scummy.

[Kublai Khan]

You are literally coasting on reputation.

I am not Kubla Khan’ing on reputation, I’m Kubla Khaning after I put all my stances out. I have stances out on many people there.

This is the part where I ask you for your stances. Again.

[Kublai Khan]

You are literally coasting on reputation.

I am not Kubla Khan’ing on reputation, I’m Kubla Khaning after I put all my stances out. I have stances out on many people there.

This is the part where I ask you for your stances. Again.

I’ve already stated them. Look at my ISO. I say stuff when I say stuff. Don’t feel like repeating until relevant.

I don’t need y’all changing things up to get even more political.

It should be so simple for a legendary scummer of your stature to just post a simple fucking reads list.

[Kublai Khan]

Hell, I’ll lynch KK first. He was chainsawing you

Huh. Weird.

Nevermind that I called you scummy at the end of Day 1, voted you at the beginning of Day 2. Then you just decide that you since you happened to be posting about JarJarDrinks, my extremely telegraphed and announced scumread of you is a chainsaw. Bullshit.

If anyone doesn't think that's a misrep, then they themselves are scummy or badtown.

[Kublai Khan]

How about a KK wagon, followed by a wave wagon then an Arc wagon on the scumflip, then we try and sort the rest of the stuff out?

Uh, what's the point of having a wagon on me if you're going to tell me ahead of time that you don't really believe in it and you actually think wavemode is scum?

[Kublai Khan]

I’m probably a super strong PR this game and lurking for that reason.

he's softclaiming a strong PR

if he's vt, then he's acting as a decent nk bait

if he's actually pr, then he's painting a big target on himself (unlikely)

if he's scum then he's bringing unneeded attention to himself by acting scummy and saying he'll be conftown

Fine. I can think of a few exceptions to this but they feel a little far-off at the moment.

UNVOTE:

[Kublai Khan]

@KK - GET THAT VOTE BACK ON ME OR SO HELP ME! or so help me!

If you flip town, you need to be policy WOTM out of every game.

[Kublai Khan]

@Khan: how does Android make you feel? You didn't mention him D1. What about Wave? Similar, but you attacking Performer/Ausuka while not saying anything negative of note.

I don't really see the case on Andriod18 besides ~lurking~ through Day 1. And yeah, he's guilty of that but so are a bunch of other. I feel a little better about Wavemode's output, but he's the third member of a neighborhood where the other two members were town PR. So that's nag in the back of my mind. Which is why I pitched that performer should venge-kill Wavemode.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK - GET THAT VOTE BACK ON ME OR SO HELP ME! or so help me!

If you flip town, you need to be policy WOTM out of every game.

I mean, you know, been here for 4+ years, win the majority of my scum games, heard this multiple times, doesn’t stop me from solving games/fooling people as scum :shrug:

I don't believe you. I can't believe you.

Look, this isn't real life. I can't look at your face for visual cues as to whether or not you're joking around or not. I have to read your words and either take them at face value or not. This is why the "Lynch all Liars" policy is the best policy. If everyone in the game is 100% truthful all the time, then town is more likely to win.

If you're town, you're more interested in winning a scum game in the future by setting a meta of being a liar now. That's shitty. It doesn't respect the time, energy, and frustration I'm putting into this game over the days and weeks. If you're scum, you've set the set bar low so that you can say or do whatever and town are fools for letting you get away with it.

You're so self-serving that you're Scrappy-Doo.

[Kublai Khan]

You’re just commenting without seeing how I actually do things, so anything you comment on my play will end up being moot.

I have my own style, it gets results. There are many games I end up being town leader in. To be fair, I’ve done some crazy shit as scum, and people know gat nothing is out of my scum range anymore so i have people constantly paranoid, but those same people will know that I can hard carry a game if I’m town. I prefer not to do that. I prefer if we as town can just work together. I’ll do what I can to ease it. I always do.

I’m even explaining everything clearly here. You assume my playstyle is a certain way just by assuming. I put a lot of analysis and thought into games, which is why i have to put some real sitdown time in.

Okay. Let me be clear right back. Your "style" of "lots of analysis and thought" in game is underwhelming.

You skip Day 1 except to brag about how you're not reading yet. You comment a little bit on things, but you don't actually put your vote anywhere until the last minute.
You've made hard and soft PR claims and then took them back. (Maybe? Sort of?)
You say that the lynchee will flip town (which is easy enough to predict as scum).
You vote JarJarDrinks with the explanation that his reads are political. I ask you to clarify, you refuse and change the topic.
In fact, you link me with JarJarDrinks because I'm "chainsaw defending" him.
Last I checked, chainsaw defending means that as scum I'm attacking you out of the blue because I'm defending a scum-partner. But I told you at the end of Day 1 that I would come after you Day 2, and I did regardless of your actions.

So for all the braggadocio of how awesome you are at manipulating people and at analysis. You've got 2 scum reads (one of which I know for a fact is town), and your analysis is a shitty "he seems scummy". So yeah, congrats. I'm definitely not getting behind you as a town leader. Mission accomplished on that.

Where's you reads on the game? Your promised analysis? You've had no comment on Pine all game? Lalendra? Myloninja13?

Where's your reads list, you day 1 lurker? (3rd time asking)

[Kublai Khan]

ANSWER MINE FIRST

yes

if you really wanted to actually know you could of just checked my game history instead of being sarcastic

now answer my questions

Scum creature - never posts

Town creature - posts

So is Creature scum? He doesn't seem to be posting.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[Kublai Khan]

Summary: Feels like he’s not actually looking to solve the game and feels kind of self-contradictory. Not engaging deeply. Not following up on stuff. Unclear reads/doesn’t really feel like he’s trying to solve. Feels especially inconsistent in regard to lurkers.

Doesn’t help that his main five pushes are the three dead townies, the IC, and a push on FL that doesn’t fit how KK interacts with other non-contributors. Also doesn’t help he ignores/defends Android/Wave (who I scumread) while pushing every other wagon that happened yesterday.

Note- decided to go through this fully and see what results I got since I noticed earlier he doesn't mention Android, defends Wave, attacks Ousuka/Performer/Ausuka.

Huh. That looks really damning.

It'd be really town if you put a vote at the end of it. Instead the vote came a few days before. So it's not your case. It's a great example in confirmation bias. You went looking for "evidence" to justify your vote and you've found it.

You've the game repeatedly posting your full reads on everyone and you're scum-reading someone who plays differently than you. I don't play the field. I focus on a few people at a time. If I get a town-sense of someone, I drop the issue. If it's an issue I press on it.

[Kublai Khan]

Why is that bad to have the vote come before?

I think it’s townie to just explain it afterwards because he felt it, and then explained it to himself even more.

Because I've done that. As both town and scum. Hell, I hit "iso" name to your name and read a lot of stuff you posted with the "he's scum" filter and boom. You're super scummy. You're dripping with scum-intentions.

[Kublai Khan]

1741- Says FL is worse than other ‘I’m going to lurk D1’ people (Pine, Creature, ETL) as they’ve provided content. What about Android, Mylo, Scion, Arc, who’ve provided similar amounts? No mentions here

Oof. It is rough to keep reading you scouring my iso, but missing the point over and over.

The difference between Flavor Leaf and the other lurkers is that the other active lurkers put a vote or two down somewhere. Even if it's just an RVS vote.

Flavor Leaf deliberately did not vote until the last minute. He is someone that brags about his ability to "read wagons". So he believes that scum are noticeable by their voting habits. So he deliberately didn't vote until called out on it. This decision to not vote is political (to steal his word). He didn't get any negative OMGUS reactions, so he just sailed through the day.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm behind. I'll get caught up later tonight.

(Yes, I realize the irony.)

[Kublai Khan]

Spent the last 3 hours sorting through isos and re-skimming Day 2. Here's where I'm currently standing.

Town pile
Ausuka
Hopkirk
Andriod19
Dunnstral
Golden Robster
texcat
PenguinPower
JarJarDrinks

Weaktown
Gamma Emerald
EspeciallyTheLies
Lalendra
Frozen Angel
Pine

Eh... pile
Scioness Sajj
ArcAngel9
Creature (Apparently has a famous meta where he's active as town and lurks as scum. He lurks. But replaces out, which someone (WhemeStar?) sold as being town, but is it?)
WhemeStar

Scum pile
Flavor Leaf
Vaxkiller
Myloninja13
Wavemode


I'm in the group that says that Flavor Leaf's mason buddy needs to claim. On the re-read it just feels like his town & scum read on me & JarJarDrinks keeps flipping depending on whoever is attacking him. There is something manipulative in his play and he's trying to hide it with smoke and mirrors. Like his explanation of his reaction to Golden Robster is all WIFOM. He's basically arguing that there's no excuse for scum to play/react badly. Well of course not. But we catch scum when they do play/react badly. Except when we get placated by WIFOM reasoning.

If his partner is in my town or weaktown list, then I'm happy with three solid town reads to help with POE.

[Kublai Khan]

because Mylo is obv town.

Why?

It’s already INCREDIBLY obvious who my partner is, look at the crumbs, look at the reactions, and move on.

If it's incredibly obvious, then it's even more obvious to scum.

If my second mason claims, they essentially become tonight’s night kill.

If your mason partner is night-killed, then that leaves us with two confirmed town on Day 3. (you & Ausuka) If your mason partner is not killed and is a town-read, then that gives us 3 town roles on Day 3. It's a worthwhile gamble.

[Kublai Khan]

Uhh. Flavor Leaf. Maybe you should stop appealing to emotion and night-action directing at this point. Let others post for a bit.

[Kublai Khan]

@Hopkirk - Just to verify. You are claiming mason with Flavor Leaf?

Do you realize that Flavor Leaf has no "u" in his name?

[Kublai Khan]

You didn't answer my "Why is Myloninja13 town?" question, Flavor Leaf.

[Kublai Khan]

@Hopkirk - Just to verify. You are claiming mason with Flavor Leaf?

Do you realize that Flavor Leaf has no "u" in his name?

Hard claiming the mason I've been subtly crumbing since early D1. Yep.
I mixed between U and no U because I'm British. That wasn't part of the crumb.

Ok thank you. That's actually a relief because now I can ignore all the paranoia surrounding Flavor Leaf and actually listen to him.

[Kublai Khan]

You didn't answer my "Why is Myloninja13 town?" question, Flavor Leaf.

He was hard day 1 mislynch bait.

If we go Mylo, I’d rather give it a day or so because it can bait scum better later in the game.

I highly doubt Mylo as scum will be able to Kubla Khan...sorry will be able to coast through this game at this point anyways. Just give it a day or two.

Dude, so many people are active lurking, it's insane. In going through isos, there are so many people promising to catch up and never do. I'm actually really glad to have two cleared ACTIVE town to work through the game.

Why is myloninja13 more the mislynch bait than, say, Andriod18 though?

[Kublai Khan]

Whishy washy stances, including on me, the hard Mylo push, the trajectory of your vote path.

Um. You presented a choice of "PenguinPower or Golden Robster" and PenguinPower immediately dropped his hard Myloninja13 push and voted Golden Robster. Despite not commenting on him about anything anywhere.

[Kublai Khan]

Um. He faked claimed mason and then didn't give a reason when asked why he did it? Didn't really care until mason were actually confirmed.

Yes, action is bad.

So tell me about the scum motivation in the action.

[Kublai Khan]

presented a choice of "PenguinPower or Golden Robster" and PenguinPower immediately dropped his hard Myloninja13 push and voted Golden Robster. Despite not commenting on him about anything anywhere.

Um. He faked claimed mason and then didn't give a reason when asked why he did it? Didn't really care until mason were actually confirmed.

Yes, action is bad.

So tell me about the scum motivation in the action.

{PenguinPower doesn't answer and time passes until...}

PenguinPower responds to Golden Robster:

I guess this could make sense sense, but fake claiming as town is just bad. I mean, you didn't know that he was mason, so I don't get what you were hoping for if A) occurred; don't get why you voted and pushed when B) did occur; or, what you hoped for if C) occurred.

Why does town!GR do this to begin with?

PenguinPower seems to be backtracking to justify his vote. Insincere scum-hunting.

VOTE: PenguinPower

[Kublai Khan]

but sure, go on, tell me about my insincere efforts to try and sort people.

You voted, then sorted. Town does it the other way around.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: andriod18

can anyone give me a reason why we shouldn't lynch this?

Because there are more obvious scum?

Give me the cliffnotes on the Andriod18 case.

[Kublai Khan]

Give me the cliffnotes on the Andriod18 case.

Well first thing is he was the day one counterwagon to Performer.

And just look at his ISO. there's 29 posts and they are all pretty bad. He lurked and lurked, then starting posting a tiny bit when he had a wagon on him and then stopped posting when the wagon disappeared.

People ask him questions and then he disappears and then never answers them.

It's scummy, it's lurking, it should be the next lynch.

He was counter-wagon until he claimed VT though. Wouldn't it be the scum move to claim a PR to avoid the lynch (Vaxkiller-style)?

[Kublai Khan]

He was counter-wagon until he claimed VT though. Wouldn't it be the scum move to claim a PR to avoid the lynch (Vaxkiller-style)?

I would say that is generally the correct play for scum but android doesn't strike me as a good player.

Right, okay. But that kinda pushes him into mislynch territory.

Do you think your Andriod18 case is more solid than the PenguinPower case?

[Kublai Khan]

I'll look more into PP in a bit. I don't think I hate lynching him.

But like android needs to like show up and post or do something no? We cant let that slot stay as is and get anywhere close to lylo.

Well, if we're going to wagon Andriod18 then it has to be the final push and I just don't have bloodlust for that slot. I feel more certain about PenguinPower.

Plus about 5 people have identified themselves as "town lurkers" along with a couple of other lurkers who "lurk as scum" and we're not doing anything about it. When the lurkers check in on the game as deadline looms, we can't present them with "hey, the active town decided on Andriod18, the wagon we bailed on yesterday". It's going to be met with indifference and struggle to find a new wagon at the last minute.

[Kublai Khan]

@Gamma Emerald - Did you seek out the three fluffiest posts to comment and question on?

[Kublai Khan]

@Gamma Emerald - Did you seek out the three fluffiest posts to comment and question on?

I felt they were deserving questioning. The level of fluff of what I'm commenting on shouldn't matter. The last thing yeah it's fluff but wtf I can't tell a dude happy birthday? have some chil

Really? Scioness Sajj needed to be questioned on how she was misspelling "Android v Andriod" and not on something more substantial like how she re-voted for Andriod18?

You look busy but you aren't busy. I'm dropping you to the scum list.

[Kublai Khan]

It's not bullshit if I don't think Mylo will be lynched today...jeez.

Your vote on WhemeStar made it even to the Myloninja13 wagon.

[Kublai Khan]

Still, if we get close to deadline, I will offer myself up as a sacrifice cause I am only Vanilla Townie and it helps lower the pool of inactives; making it easier to find scum.

I forgot about this post. Scum gambit feels unlikely.

Would like some opinions on this. Really makes me dislike a PP lynch.

What's the difference between that and Andriod18's VT claim?

[Kublai Khan]

It's going to be PP huh? I fell like PP always gets lynched.

We should probably lynch you instead.

[Kublai Khan]

I am present and prodded.

Your last post that wasn't ("I'm behind", "I'll catch up", "I am present and prodded") was on July 4th. Congrats on successfully lurking through Day 2.

Can you please give a read? or a comment? or an observation?

If you're town, please stop this shitty playstyle.

[Kublai Khan]

Has anyone ever seen scum volunteer to be lynched?

Well, yeah. I don't think it's that rare. It's usually part of a general appeal to emotion defense..

[Kublai Khan]

I am cool with being the Lynch, I am nothing special on this side.

I found this from a towngame.

Dude...

You were *in* that towngame. You let me get all tunneled in and then you deflate it with meta you were quasi-aware of.

VOTE: WhemeStar

[Kublai Khan]

I wish someone would talk to me when I’m “ caught up” and not 20000 pages behind

Read on Creature?

[Kublai Khan]

Penguin Power is really lynchbaity

Why is your vote still parked on JarJarDrinks?

Even if you think he's scum, it's not happening today.

[Kublai Khan]

I wish someone would talk to me when I’m “ caught up” and not 20000 pages behind

Read on Creature?

Town town townn

Why? I thought the meta was that he lurks as scum.

[Kublai Khan]

I wish someone would talk to me when I’m “ caught up” and not 20000 pages behind

Read on Creature?

Town town townn

Why? I thought the meta was that he lurks as scum.

He wasn’t lurking earlier,

Never seen him replace out either

He's been prodded 3 times, and posted so little that he was replacement bait for 3 days before he agreed to play again. He posted 3 times, and he's about due for another prod.

I honestly don't know what it takes for some of you people to call a lurker a lurker.

[Kublai Khan]

WHEME PLZ CLAIM THANKS

We have time

I’m at work

I want to claim and then have a discussion. Right now I cant

Yeah. about 22 hours to deadline. You've been the major wagon for the past couple of days in a game where it takes forever to get a wagon going. You joined this game as a favor to the mod and you're going to be coquettish and not claim?

You;re not town.

[Kublai Khan]

Did you not get asked to join by the mod I thought like everyone in this playerlist did

No. I joined because I wanted to play. Is this really what you wanted to spend your time discussing?

[Kublai Khan]

Hey.

[Kublai Khan]

Not Ausuka?

[Kublai Khan]

So, you got your Doctor PM. You saw the Innocent Child announcement. You saw some mason claims and you didn't scratch your head at the idea that town is over-powered?

[Kublai Khan]

Sorry WhemeStar. Your claim sound fake. I'm going to sleep now.

[Kublai Khan]

Trying to push a PenguinPower lynch at this point is the same as pushing for a no lynch.

[Kublai Khan]

Lol at Creature being a useless sack then showing up to bitch about poor town leadership. He hasn't even read the game. He's just throwing out random names.

"Omg scum-Pine will kill me" Pine is being replaced.

Creature needs rope tomorrow. Line that shit up.

[Kublai Khan]

Especially if WhemeStar flips scum.

[Kublai Khan]

Checking in. Reading back.

[Kublai Khan]

Oh right. Good reminder.

VOTE: Creature

[Kublai Khan]

@PenguinPower - What's your read on JarJarDrinks right now?

[Kublai Khan]

I can catchup on everything in few hours. I have a presentation I must do in 5-6 hours. Then I'll do this

Your last 5 posts are promises to catch up dating back to July 6th.

[Kublai Khan]

if you were asking me...

lalendra, creature, robster, JarJar.

thats most likely bus to least likely bus.

I'm still re-reading, but I'd likely remove Golden Robster from that list. Golden Robster was first to vote WhemeStar in the day and has pretty consistently had him as scum.

[Kublai Khan]

if you were asking me...

lalendra, creature, robster, JarJar.

thats most likely bus to least likely bus.

I'm still re-reading, but I'd likely remove Golden Robster from that list. Golden Robster was first to vote WhemeStar in the day and has pretty consistently had him as scum.

well if you're the first to vote when it takes 12, i think, would you really think it'd go through? especially if you vote your scum buddy to distance early? look at his dialogue as the wagon grows. Sure his vote is there but it doesn't seem like he actually wants to be there. he pushes PP quite aggressively and im not a fan of the PP wagon. those reasons are the basis for my robster read.

I'm not at the wagon growing yet (on page 109 atm), so maybe. I'm just surprised to see him mentioned.

Why aren't you a fan of the PenguinPower wagon? I still have strong suspicions about him.

[Kublai Khan]

Okay, yeah, that was TheRampage's move. Yeah, it's just a super-unlikely move for scum to claim VT then replace (not flake) out. I mean, that just leaves the replacement in a shit spot. Okay, unlikely scum slot.

My brain is slowly getting refreshed.

[Kublai Khan]

There isn't any Wheme->Creature link

Really?

[Kublai Khan]

Hi I'm here sorry

Do you have that on a macro?

General thoughts on WhemeStar's scummates?

[Kublai Khan]

Hi I'm here sorry

Do you have that on a macro?

General thoughts on WhemeStar's scummates?

What do you mean by the first question lol?

And I'd assume that there'd be at least a scum off the wagon and another near the end of it too.

Nevermind. I'm just figuring out why you say the "Hi I'm here sorry" everytime.

That's a pretty vague and safe assumption about scummates. Do you want to throw any names out?

[Kublai Khan]

if you were asking me...

lalendra, creature, robster, JarJar.

thats most likely bus to least likely bus.

I'm still re-reading, but I'd likely remove Golden Robster from that list. Golden Robster was first to vote WhemeStar in the day and has pretty consistently had him as scum.

well if you're the first to vote when it takes 12, i think, would you really think it'd go through? especially if you vote your scum buddy to distance early? look at his dialogue as the wagon grows. Sure his vote is there but it doesn't seem like he actually wants to be there. he pushes PP quite aggressively and im not a fan of the PP wagon. those reasons are the basis for my robster read.

I'm not at the wagon growing yet (on page 109 atm), so maybe. I'm just surprised to see him mentioned.

Why aren't you a fan of the PenguinPower wagon? I still have strong suspicions about him.

I think a lot of his negative attention comes from the early VT claim. Someone earlier, not sure who or what post, said they'd seen the player PP replace do that sort of "sacrifice" before. quoted from another game i do believe. I can see a VT doing that as a way to "meaningfully" contribute if their activity is low.

but mainly, it's because PP's wagon shot up quickly, as flavor mentioned, while whemes did not. Now we know PP was the main counter wagon to the wheme scum lynch, which is the most important thing.

with that info i'd like to believe at least 1 scum voted off the wagons (dunn), at least one scum voted PP (vax), at least one scum voted Wheme (lalendra, creature, robster, TBG, JarJar).

Okay. I caught up reading. I still town-read Golden Robster though. He comes off as legitimately scum-reading PenguinPower based on PenguinPower's actions & voting patterns (which were sketchy). He got a full head of seam about it, then it get de-railed by a minor thing early in the game by a predecessor. I know that feeling of having a certain scum-read pulled from under you. Golden Robster comes off as transparently sincere.

Plus after Lalendra votes WhemeStar, Golden Robster joins to make it a legit wagon. And yes, I saw the last minute waffle, but it was only lasted a few minutes.

The ones trying to topple the WhemeStar wagon at the point where it became a legit wagon and by-passed PenguinPower were: Gamma Emerald, TehBrawlGuy, Vaxkiller, and especially Creature.

Around and posting, but not joining the WhemeStar wagon: Dunnstral and (much lesser extent) texcat.

[Kublai Khan]

huh, idk why i didn't remember there being a wheme->creature link when there's such a large one. I guess it's because I was focused on the votes so much

yeah, OK, I can get on board with Creature being linked to Wheme

I still like JJD better, but I'm OK with Creature wagon now. I'd be willing to bet at least one of the two is Scum.

Then throw a vote down, brother.

[Kublai Khan]

The fact I tried to stop scum lynch (who apparently posted their reads when it was likely they were gonna get lynched anyway) isn't AI.

The way, the reasons and my motivations are AI.

Was I really trying to defend my buddy there or was I just town who thought I had a good reason to defend him?

You called town idiots for voting obv-scum. And hyper-posted while saying scum-you would hyperpost to victory.

Sorry, but the mafia game isn't about just lynching anyone who defended scum, otherwise town winrates would be stratospheric.

I agree. Town would win more if we did stuff like lynching people who hard defend scum.

[Kublai Khan]

If I really intended to preserve WhemeStar there I would've done PP instead saying it's better to mislynch a VT than doc.

WIFOM.

[Kublai Khan]

Oh yay, Tchill is town.

So is Creature.

What the fuck.

Do people not actually read Creature posts?

Someone needs to link me to a scum-Creature game. All game people have been saying his scum game is obvious. And if it's somehow more obvious than this game, I have to see this for myself.

[Kublai Khan]

The ones trying to topple the WhemeStar wagon at the point where it became a legit wagon and by-passed PenguinPower were: Gamma Emerald, TehBrawlGuy, Vaxkiller, and especially Creature.

Around and posting, but not joining the WhemeStar wagon: Dunnstral and (much lesser extent) texcat.

also of note is that dunn absolutely did attempt to topple wheme wagon, so why is he in the second group?

It was almost 3 am. Brain mush for reading 50 pages in 3 hours. Yeah. Dunnstral was trying hard to un-wagon the Mafia Universal Backup.

[Kublai Khan]

Oh yay, Tchill is town.

So is Creature.

What the fuck.

Do people not actually read Creature posts?

Someone needs to link me to a scum-Creature game. All game people have been saying his scum game is obvious. And if it's somehow more obvious than this game, I have to see this for myself.

Via a quick search.

I'm sure there are more recent examples but I don't feel like searching.

You picked an example who nobody voted scum-Creature all game until he was caught by night-action.

Creature is obv-scum posting WIFOM.

You're calling him town. Why?

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Myloninja

creature is town. he does not make 257 posts as scum.

Link. Me. A. Scum. Game. If. You. Want. To. Defend. Him. With. Meta.

Nobody is so simplistic as to be readable because his role PM caused him to find the submit button at the bottom of the page.

"He's made 7%of the posts in this game. So town!" Garbage logic.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Myloninja

My gut has been right so far.

WhemeStar thought Myloninja13 was in the neighborhood at one point.

[Kublai Khan]

My scum game can be boiled down to "no hard stances, just hop into whatever comes", which is completely contradictory to this game.

Oh. And people who know their scum meta never try to subvert it to win games as scum, right?

WhemeStar thought Myloninja13 was in the neighborhood at one point.

Ok...?

If Myloninja13 is a scummate, I don't think that WhemeStar is going to accidentally put him in the neighborhood. Considering the neighborhood was a major lynch possibility during Day 1.

Unless, of course, both Myloninja13 and wavemode are scummates with WhemeStar. In which case, it makes sense to confuse the two.

As far as I’m aware, Wheme is aware of the Creature meta thing, so he can’t not townread Creature without drawing suspicion (and Wheme's play wasn't exactly with the intent of being the centre of attention). I feel that mitigates the interactions Tchill mentions from Wheme's side of it.

Do you realize how crazy that sounds. "Creature tried really really had to stop WhemeStar from being the lynch, but the fact that WhemeStar kept calling Creature town mitigates it."

Creature posted so little Day 2 (before the EOD) that he was on the replacement list. Creature was mid-flake. Why wouldn't scum-WhemeStar turn on town-Creature at that point? Specifically in that mid-Day 2 posting period, WhemeStar could have easily turned on Creature and called him scummy. But instead he doesn't waver and makes sure to say Creature was town.

Oh my god Tchill might be scum
I had this exact same fucking fight with him in a past mini, the fact he's learned nothing tells me that something is very wrong

How similar?

Actually the way it played out I see it as a good scum play. You die, tada you have confirmed a vig exists. You live, you know that there is not a vig. I will state if Vaxkiller is scum I'd expect a BIG scumteam, like 6-7, as being willing to make that sacrifice sorta implies that.

What? That makes no sense. Scum aren't going to trade the life of one member just to learn something that they'd learn anyways. Generally town vigs have itchy trigger fingers.

Right now the lynch pool is {Creature, TehBrawlGuy, Scioness Sajj, Lalendra}

[Kublai Khan]

Ausuka could be scum as well as she just seems ...off from the other games I've played with her.

Fake town slip?

How so?

Goodness. I didn't realize that I had tickets to the theater.

[Kublai Khan]

Based on how clueless she is I think Lalendra might be town. I don't think she is faking that.

The thing I hate is the timing of the cluelessness.

[Kublai Khan]

Based on how clueless she is I think Lalendra might be town. I don't think she is faking that.

The thing I hate is the timing of the cluelessness.

kublai were you the one that told me i should take a certain player out of my SR while you were catching up?

i'd love to hear more thoughts from you regarding vax and TBG.

Do you agree that flavor called out multiple scum? if so who's the most likely?

Yeah, it was Golden Robster. I didn't say that you should take him out of your SR, it was just that out of the 4 possible bussers you had listed, Golden Robster seems least likely.

Vaxkiller is in my scum list. The vig-claim seemed like a panicked EOD "don't wagon me" claim and he recanted it because what else is he supposed to do (town or scum)? He's lurky and not memorable in his posting.

TehBrawlGuy is also on my scum list. His explanations of "the proper thing to do is blahblahblah" feels mechanical and overly rational. Like, I get as cautious and paranoid as anybody when things seem to line up too well, but there are some moments in mafia whee you gut screams that you've found mafia and you get incredulous that others don't see it. Hell, you get suspicious of them. TehBrawlGuy kept saying he thought WhemeStar was scum. He calmly voted him to L-1 and backed off. Then did it again. There's no... anticipation or anxiety to his posting. It gives me a cold feeling that he already knows exactly what WhemeStar will flip and he's checking if town wants to change their mind with the PR info or if Creature is succeeding at swaying people. Then when town isn't budging, he accepts the lynch.

Also.. I kinda glossed over a lot of the Flavor Leaf posting when re-reading Day 2. I think scum eliminated the cleared town and the more forceful leader of the two (sorry Hopkirk). Flavor Leaf's reads may be good, but I don't think he was killed over them.

[Kublai Khan]

pick a player out of these two

Why exclude Creature?

[Kublai Khan]

You realise your tunnel is going nowhere, right?

Town motivation for taunting?

Lalendra wagon is alright

Non-committal. Pushing wagon without being on wagon.

[Kublai Khan]

Eh. Let's make things happen.

VOTE: Lalendra

[Kublai Khan]

I mean, is it that hard to believe? They're confirmed town, that doesn't mean they're right. You want people to just mindlessly sheep them?

No. But if Lalendra was town, scum would find reasons to be a part of the town-led wagon.

[Kublai Khan]

in general or

Both in general and in this game. I haven't seen anyone really explain why they aren't on the wagon.

[Kublai Khan]

Honestly

If I saw a wagon being led by conftown and the wagon ended up flipping town

That's the very first angle I would be looking for

I wouldn't be too surprised if scum were dispersed off the wagon, especially if the slots right after the conftowns are town.

UNVOTE: Lalendra

Holy shit, that VC

Yeah Lalendra is probably town

>Ankamius makes argument that scum would scatter from a too-town wagon
>Ankamius sees wagon is town
>Ankamius unvotes and scatters.

Dude..

[Kublai Khan]

Honestly

If I saw a wagon being led by conftown and the wagon ended up flipping town

That's the very first angle I would be looking for

Legitimately though, I don't get the logic. If scum aren't going to wagon town today, then you think they'll be looking to bus today? Or try to vacantly let a no lynch fall through?

[Kublai Khan]

You aren't understanding my point

I am Jack's confusion.

[Kublai Khan]

@Ankamius - So you think scum is pushing the Myloninja13 or Dunnstral wagons right now?

[Kublai Khan]

Okay. There is about 2 days left and Lalendra is still a wildcard with nobody claiming a solid town read (correct me if I'm wrong) but the wagon has stalled.

People need to be less stubborn and more open at this point.

[Kublai Khan]

who can we CFD to?

Creature.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: TehBrawlGuy

[Kublai Khan]

I mean I was with you on the Dunn wagon and mostly all you've done is complain about other people's wagons rather than pushing it. Why is Dunn better than tex, Rob?

dunnstral hard-defended wheme, tried to stall wagon and said "lynch wheme tomororrow"

why is dunn not better than tex?

Yeah, but Dunnstral did it too overtly. TehBrawlGuy was doing it sneakily.

[Kublai Khan]

Hmm. After Ankamius makes the observation that Lalendra might be town because the wagon is too town, both Creature and Vaxkiller jump to try to revive it.

[Kublai Khan]

Hmm. After Ankamius makes the observation that Lalendra might be town because the wagon is too town, both Creature and Vaxkiller jump to try to revive it.

are you starting to see why I'm really not liking Creature right now

I am the President and charter member of the Creature Leans Obv-scum Club Kids (CLOCK).

VOTE: Creature

[Kublai Khan]

Yes it is. If he's posting content at this level he's town. Literally just look at his games.

Like if he was spamming the thread with the letter "a" yeah, that's NAI. What he's doing isn't.

So if Creature was posting something along the lines of "I'm scum and I'm trying to lynch town. Go Scum Go!", you're telling me that I should read that as town. Really?

I can't wrap my mind around the idea that someone is so terrible at mafia that the content of what they post is irrelevant, it's only the number of posts that I should pay attention to. Plus, HE

[Kublai Khan]

Yes it is. If he's posting content at this level he's town. Literally just look at his games.

Like if he was spamming the thread with the letter "a" yeah, that's NAI. What he's doing isn't.

So if Creature was posting something along the lines of "I'm scum and I'm trying to lynch town. Go Scum Go!", you're telling me that I should read that as town. Really?

I can't wrap my mind around the idea that someone is so terrible at mafia that the content of what they post is irrelevant, it's only the number of posts that I should pay attention to. Plus, HE'S COMPLETELY AWARE OF THIS META. Which means it's basically on the level of

red text

and he should be booted from the site if what you are saying is true.

[Kublai Khan]

Sorry, ignore the first one.

[Kublai Khan]

Fuck balls.

VOTE: Lalendra

[Kublai Khan]

Fuck balls.

VOTE: Lalendra

dude what are you doing

I'm not going to fight this in-game. If he's scum, then congrats and he's burned that meta forever. From this point on, nobody will ever be able to argue

If he's town, then post game I'm going to go to the green mods and argue that knowingly cultivating a town-tell at the expense of his games as scum is a form of site-cheating and he needs to be booted.

P.EDIT:

lol, and just that one game Kublai played with me I was harddefending one scum D1.

actually good point can KK respond to this

2 points:

1 - I went and checked. It was a super soft-defend compared to this game. There's about 2 posts where he says the lynch is bad.
2 - "I did a thing once and therefore always do that thing" is piss-poor logic. I mean, if you want to follow that, then let's lynch whoever Creature really doesn't want to lynch.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

This calls to me.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

This calls to me.

why are you avoiding the main wagons for vanity wagons?

I'm just window shopping right now. In a few hours I'll sit down and tear into the meat of this game.

[Kublai Khan]

Why is Vaxkiller town again?

Lalendra wagon also has some bad players on it, like Vaxkiller.

now only Vaxkiller looks bad on the Lalendra wagon

other than that the Lalendra wagon looks alright

Okay, so I think Lalendra wagon is pure besides Vaxkiller

So, am I the only reading Creature and Vaxkiller as scummates?

[Kublai Khan]

looking like dunn, lalendra, gamma, scionness, vax.

Nice. Pretty close to the grouping I posted earlier today.

I think I just have Creature in for Dunnstral.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Lalendra

Feeling better now.

[Kublai Khan]

this feels more like d1 then d2.

is intent needed?

Lalendra already claimed VT.

[Kublai Khan]

looking like dunn, lalendra, gamma, scionness, vax.

Nice. Pretty close to the grouping I posted earlier today.

I think I just have Creature in for Dunnstral.

I keep going back n forth on creature. He's voting lala rn and there's some really shifty folk on his wagon.

You need to reconsider putting Dunn back in tho. If there wasn't < a day remaining, I'd try to wagon him. Obvscum IMO.

Well, initially I didn't think that both Dunnstral and Creature could be scum together. It seemed unlikely that two scum would harddefend the goner scummate.

I was thinking about it while doing laundry. I initially put Dunnstral in the town side because someone had mentioned that Dunnstral never jumped on the easy wagon. It's a pretty weak read, but it was better than anything Creature had posted. But then Creature's 4325 sunk in and I realized what I was dealing with. It's insanely simplistic and stupid, but I think I'm prepared to just blindly accept it. And like with Flavor Leaf's claim, the paranoia and stress are gone.

Dunnstral, Lalendra, Gamma Emerald, Scionness Sajj, and Vaxkiller may not be the scumteam, but chances are most of them are scum.

[Kublai Khan]

deepwolf this game

I have no idea what this expression means.

[Kublai Khan]

Why are we so focused on the vig claim? What about all the other townie stuff Vaxkiller has done?

[Kublai Khan]

What about all the other townie stuff Vaxkiller has done?

Yeah cant we talk about this?

I was being sarcastic.

[Kublai Khan]

Feels like a tug of war going on.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: texcat

Creature blinks.

[Kublai Khan]

wait, what?

[Kublai Khan]

Why are you voting Tchill13 based on that?

[Kublai Khan]

Why are you voting Tchill13 based on that?

Look back through Tchill's early posts since he entered the game

Then sheep me

I see where he called Lalendra early, then scum.

Are you saying he should have quoted it earlier or something?

[Kublai Khan]

I'm still here. Just been a little busy with life lately. I've skimmed and seen a lot of my scum-reads wagoned a bit and I'm happy. But I'm not really mentally engaged at the moment. I'll have time to do something Sunday night.

[Kublai Khan]

she was right somewhere. my first thought was the mylo/creature reads but the read list you quoted it also something to look into.

This straight-up textbook WIFOM thinking.

What kinda strikes me though is, why assume "Ausuka was correct" instead of "Hopkirk is wrong"? No offense to Ausuka, but Hopkirk is a stronger town leader so far.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm ready to hammer Dunn.

[Kublai Khan]

Have fun with your town lynch

I like the parts where you just plainly say that Dunnstral is town with no reasoning.
And how you jump from saying that Tchill13 is scum. To texcat is scum. And now Krazy is scum. Then this AtE stuff.

You're really making an impression on me at this point.

[Kublai Khan]

I think that was a hammer.

[Kublai Khan]

Lol at Creature being a useless sack then showing up to bitch about poor town leadership. He hasn't even read the game. He's just throwing out random names.

"Omg scum-Pine will kill me" Pine is being replaced.

Creature needs rope tomorrow. Line that shit up.

Especially if WhemeStar flips scum.

wtf is this?

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

This calls to me.

VOTE: Lalendra

Feeling better now.

why are there zero lalendra posts between these two decisions

@Myloninja13 - What's your read of wavemode? Why?

@wavemode - What's your read of Myloninja13? Why?

[Kublai Khan]

Aw, didn't mean to quote those. Meant to respond to them. hold on.