Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)


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Post Post #108 (isolation #0) » Wed May 23, 2018 7:15 pm

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Woo! Pretty excited for this one, curious how the setup is gonna play out. After today I should have lots of time so that's great. Gonna read the first 5 pages now. Good luck everyone!
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Post Post #113 (isolation #1) » Wed May 23, 2018 7:38 pm

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In post 33, jjh927 wrote:We're maybe not quite there yet.

Worth noting that NSG is more interested in me than her wagon?
This feels like you want attention to divert from you. Why? Discussion, of any kind, needs to get us out of RVS right?
In post 44, Zoronos wrote:
In post 37, northsidegal wrote:VOTE: pinturicchio
Think that’s an attempt to drag us back to RVS in lieu of serious discussion / weighing in on thread topics, or just stale RVS?

Your vote cleart implies the former so maybe my question is self answering, ergo this is probably just a log of thoughts and observations.
I assume this is about Pintu's post? I would call it a jokey RVS vote, might be because the dude hadn't read up on the thread yet. I wouldn't call it wanting to stall discussion.
In post 48, ruru wrote:Can people stop shitpost-shaming please

I really want to shitpost but now I feel awkward about it
This is our first game together but I like you already :mrgreen: shitpost freely now that it's still early I guess!
In post 63, BlackStar wrote:
In post 62, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 61, BlackStar wrote:His posts are too long
We're not in RVS anymore...
It feels like he's trying too hard even though nothing has happened
In post 64, jjh927 wrote:That's how you get to happen. He's been an extremely positive presence in getting out of RVS
Agree here - Zoro has been very present and got us out of RVS which is a small plus for me

Soft agree with the notion that scum!ruru would/could benefit from not asking about shitposts but trying to blend into the thread. That could very well be town so...

Very soft and wobbly reads but if you'd ask me to pick out town at this point of my catchup ruru and Zoro are candidates.

pedit - I wish I could swing, HitAlt :(
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Post Post #115 (isolation #2) » Wed May 23, 2018 7:46 pm

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In post 94, Mathdino wrote:Are we talking setup?

Cop and vig act tonight, jailkeeper does not

Problem solved

Cop nullreads, Vig distractions, lynchbait and universal scumreads
This seems good to me.

Talk me through this: would it be worth to save a vig shot until N2? I'd think we all have more reads by then, stronger reads in either direction and less(?) nullreads, so a smaller vigpool and more info upon the flip? Vigilante only has to survive D1/N1 which shouldn't be too hard I'd think and even if vig somehow has to claim D1 they can be jailkept. Sorry if this is a bad idea, not sure if setup spec is my forte but I can give it a shot :)
In post 101, Something_Smart wrote:Is there ever an RVS wagon that ISN'T low info?
Lol no... it's called RVS for a reason so I'm not sure I really see ruru's reasoning right there.

@ducky: I have an exam (my last, worry not!) for which I leave in ~4 hours.. I'll spend that time alternating between the study material and here :lol: no guarantees but I'll try to stay around in between stress-crying bouts.
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Post Post #121 (isolation #3) » Wed May 23, 2018 8:10 pm

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jjh I quoted with his attention diverting to NSG. Not sure if that's pro town at all. Re: his serious vote on Zoro I wouldn't be able to tag as either alignment - it's something I could see myself doing (and almost did) since Zoro's initial posts were a bit of ??? because there was a lot of content about like, 1.5 pages of game which could seem a little too eager/too quick to draw reads. Agree with NSG however that then voting BlackStar who votes Zoro is also ???. However I feel the scum motivation for doing that would be to sort of buddy up to Zoro... I really doubt jjh who seems to have been here for a decent amount of time, would blatantly do that.

Which brings me to NSG, as I said - what she points out is right, the voting for Blackstar is unwarranted but I don't see it as scummy. I also agree with what she points out in her next post but again that's almost too weird and obvious to be actual scum. I think scum!jjh would be better off waiting for an actual reason to vote someone else, or simply unvote off of Zoro.

Blackstar... no fan so far. He's only posted about Zoro so far who I'd be townreading. Voting there feels like an easy vote. Which again would make jjh voting Blackstar a bit townie motivated.

I try not to be dumb Math :(

What would you say the jailkeeper would ideally do? I'd agree cop/vig are more useful. JK I guess is good for a) protecting inno's or widely townread players or b) trying to block scumkill but that's hard. So nothing for tonight for sure.
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Post Post #128 (isolation #4) » Wed May 23, 2018 8:15 pm

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In post 123, the worst wrote:I actually like NSG's case for town, just not sure she's got her guy yet.
Wait what case exactly do you mean?
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Post Post #136 (isolation #5) » Wed May 23, 2018 8:21 pm

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In post 133, the worst wrote:pedit: Alty you an alt?
Is water wet? I'd think so!

Agree. Alt answering questions can't hurt? Blending and discussing = good imo?
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Post Post #272 (isolation #6) » Thu May 24, 2018 6:06 pm

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In post 199, Mathdino wrote:Would NSG be aware that jjh has a reputation for being super obvtown as town? I, as scum in this playerlist, would absolutely not be trying to lynch jjh of all people.

I'm feeling mafia-lazy. Someone give me a read on ruru to sheep?
Not even when you have a semi good reason? It's weak but NSG's reasoning checks out and usually we don't get anything better D1. Whatcha thing about it? .
In post 237, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 4, davesaz wrote:VOTE: Zoronos
Convenient, you're the person before me in the list and in the thread.
By the way, does anybody knows this guy?
I played my first scumgame / 2nd game overall with him back in December/January! Not that I remember a shitton of meta... But I could always refresh my mind.


Hard agree with NSG et al that ofrhz asking for a reason for a vote is entirelu different from what JJH did. I tend to do the same and wanted to ask for example when ruru naked voted a little while back.
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Post Post #273 (isolation #7) » Thu May 24, 2018 6:14 pm

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In post 206, pinturicchio wrote:Now about the misunderstanding: no I don't think jjh was trying to redirect heat off himself, 'cause I don't think there was heat on himself in the first place. What I find ironic is that, by saying that about NSG, NSG went full bananas on him but either way, about redirecting heat... I don't think that's a treat only scum has; town doesn't want to be the center of attention either. Town doesn't care that much maybe, but from my point of view, I try to analyze this things in a way like "is this relevant to my read on this player? If yes, why; if no, read something else". jjh's motivation is a no, first 'cause there's not enough evidence to think anything about that post, and second 'cause even if he was trying to derail attention, I wouldn't know how to read that
I personally think this was a damning thing so let's discuss. What does town jjh get from redirecting this off of himself now? I do feel he had a small bit of pressure after somewhat of a flaming start. As if he didn't want attraction to divert from him as much as from his content... Do you see what I'm saying or am I seeing this wrong? Also I'd find this more excusable if it were an actual wagon but it's RVS
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Post Post #274 (isolation #8) » Thu May 24, 2018 6:15 pm

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In post 121, HeWhoSwims wrote:Agree with NSG however that then voting BlackStar who votes Zoro is also ???. However I feel the scum motivation for doing that would be to sort of buddy up to Zoro... I really doubt jjh who seems to have been here for a decent amount of time, would blatantly do that.
Anyone wanna talk about this? Don't think it was discussed really?
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Post Post #433 (isolation #9) » Sat May 26, 2018 9:13 am

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I had an unexpectedly busy weekend and grabbed some extra shifts at work and am again out at an event tomorrow. I'll do my best to catch up tomorrow after I get home.

All I was able to read up on this morning is that Black's vote on ducky seemed like wacky business. Don't think he's being scummy?

I'm not seeing ofrhz being the biggest wagon, really.
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Post Post #556 (isolation #10) » Sun May 27, 2018 8:58 am

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In post 354, Zoronos wrote:I feel like I should dump my thoughts from my discussion with Pintu, but they’re still a bit jumbly. So, bear with me.

I think Pintu is seeing the evidence completely differently than I am. At first I wanted to call that scummy, but if I had one word to describe our discussion, that word would be “reasonable”. He never got incensed or frustrated, or called me scummy for leaning on him, he just calmly explained his position and why he disagreed with me.
I don’t really like his predicates, but he was very insist on their validity, and he took those predicates to a reasonable place. I can see how he got from A to B, even if I disagree with A. He didn’t bow or give an inch in his discussion, while remaining willing to engage it.

My gut says that’s towny but I struggle to clearly explain why or specifically what parts of our discussion made me feel towny on him. Maybe that he’s playing highly cooperatively?

Sorry for the mess, but that’s where I ended up. I wish I could have ended up at a ‘yeah, got the scum!, but that would be stretching for a conclusion I wanted instead of the conclusion I think the evidence points towards. I think my initial scum lean was wrong.
I think that's a perfectly valid reason to townread. I haven't found myself having any problems with pin's reasoning and he seems open and ready to bring his A game to the thread. So yeah I do townread there.
In post 365, davesaz wrote:
In post 244, pinturicchio wrote: So for real, tell me about dave? Is he lurking, active lurking, is this normal/abnormal coming from him, should we worry or is too early to know?
Burning the candle at both ends in a fashion -- 6am conference calls some days, worked a post graduation party for the kiddos till past midnight last night.
Congrats on your kids graduating! (?)
In post 378, northsidegal wrote:First order of business:

Blackstar voters, justify yourself.


I'm feeling pretty good about blackstar being town here. He's definitely going against the seeming "consensus opinion", but i fail to see where the "scum" part of that comes in. In fact, it's the opposite to me – he really doesn't seem to be concerned all that much with his own appearance. His thoughts and votes get him scumread, but they all feel totally real to me. I think a good example of what i'm trying to say is in his entrance with the vote on zoronos. as seen from the reactions it was definitely an "against the grain" move, but again, it all felt like completely real things that he actually thought:

-snip-

and, reading the thread myself, i can
see
where his thought is coming from.


i get a strange feeling that blackstar could be sorted pretty realiably using a spreadsheet (math probably knows what i'm talking about), but just on his play here i'm feeling pretty good about him being town.
Not voting there but I think some of his early posts are really really devoid of solid reads and or progression so to say. But this gets better lately so that's null for me... Still think the Zoro vote is/was bad though.
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Post Post #566 (isolation #11) » Sun May 27, 2018 9:12 am

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In post 408, ruru wrote:
In post 403, northsidegal wrote:i had my thoughts on mathdino typed up in the beginnings of a post going over all of my scumreads that i deleted, but basically he's in the lower tier for me right now mostly as a formality. he hasn't had much of a presence as of yet and i know that's more of a sitewide thing than a "this game" thing, but i still couldn't justify townreading him as of now.
His activity isn't really AI right? I feel like his scum meta that I've read previously was like all power wolfing

Also I mean we're not wagoning the dinosaur d1 right like who does that
Hard agree. Everyone gets lost in work/school/whatever sometimes plus I actually like Math's content so far, even though its setup spec, it feels town motivated to me, I can't spot anything scummy honestly. Agree about leaving him alive here, Math is a good townie as far as I've read (never played with him, did mod him) so the risk of mislynching there day 1 seems too high to me.
In post 414, pinturicchio wrote:@Zoronos if you excuse me, I'll start reading that and other things in the thread now, since I think I've dedicated almost all my time interacting with you :lol: I'll let you know if I see something at the duckling's wagon, but I'm not good at reading the duck... I think I have a null read in almost all our games and he has always been town in those.

@NSG yeah same problem, I've only seen town!Dino and the one time I thought I caught him he was an innocent child, great job me! But there's a Newbie Game that finished not long ago where Dino was scum and lost in LyLo; I only read the LyLo posts, but now that is over I will read the entire game. I mean, I don't know if I'll get something since he claims he shouldn't be metaread, but meh
I skimmed over the ending of that game (never saw Mathscum either I think) and he said that basically his playstyle was like his normal one - doing townie like stuff but hiding the townie motivation from it. I don't see that this game. I saw him critisize NSG for example - unsure scum!Math would benefit from or would want to do that especially if northsidegal is, as it seems, sorta buddies with Math or has played with him a lot? Plus his setup spec did seem townie to me. He was conservative in it because of giving scum info.
In post 424, HitAlt wrote:I have no reason to reverse my scumread on the duck.
I'd argue we can see scum!Zoro more easily after duck really flips scum.
Pintu legit feels like town.
One scum in ruru/orcfz is probable.
Blackstra is likely town, and the ones who have poked/voted there so far likely have scum in them, looking for a potential mislynch.
What's your Zoro-Duck link exactly?
In post 432, ruru wrote:
In post 431, Almost50 wrote:What do you call a dinosaur fart?
A blast from the past!
VOTE: Almost50
I must agree, valid vote
In post 447, ruru wrote:VOTE: davesaz
This one isn't though. It's a naked vote, it's on someone I townlean, and it seems to be based on someone - gasp, how dare they - putting a vote on someone we're supposed to townread. sort of FOS here. Bad vote =/= scum.
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Post Post #567 (isolation #12) » Sun May 27, 2018 9:13 am

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Also having skimmed over his ISO at this point I can see the ofrz wagon, seems like a too big part of low content posts. No bueno.
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Post Post #572 (isolation #13) » Sun May 27, 2018 9:19 am

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In post 493, the worst wrote:
In post 490, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 458, the worst wrote: tbh I think I'm being dumb with ofrhz. tonally she seems similar to our last game, but there's something awkward there.

also wagon motivation checks out
This feels like distancing and bussing at the same time
this feels like distancing and bussing at the same time
Isn't this sorta the same anyway except bussing is a bit more intense/grave?
In post 506, davesaz wrote:I see that them having both been on the ofhrz wagon could be concerning, if that were an actual reason. But in fact I looked at activity to get the Mathdino lead. I get most of my leads on players I know by differences from past games, and then digging into the difference to find out if it's AI or not. If it's someone I don't know, I have to ask questions to determine what they think, and then see if what they say about what they think matches the behavior. This is why my approaches to MD and ruru are different, and previous wagon composition is merely a coincidence.

At least I'm getting a decent handle on you. :)

Pedit: MD has been controlling in every single town game I've ever seen. He's even tried to control my town game when we were on a team together in Team Mafia. Therefore not controlling is a huge difference and it needs to be investigated.
I think that last part is pretty good to keep in mind.

pedit - I think you did, nsg
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Post Post #577 (isolation #14) » Sun May 27, 2018 9:32 am

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I mean it's logical to thing stubborn=scum because lack of collaboration but honestly how does scum gain anything from this? Or from tunnelling? It's bad for town I feel but not scummy per second. Scum can't get in anyone's good graces and they are gaining suspicion no? I feel most really stubborn players turn out to he town (see: chumba/Havo in a mini of mine which allowed me to win, yay) and we shouldn't scumread someone based off solely stubbornness.

Surely if that person is playing like shit and/or scum a negative read is in place but I hope you see what I'm saying?
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Post Post #582 (isolation #15) » Sun May 27, 2018 9:44 am

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BOP is burden of proficiency aka: no matter how long you've been around here or how much your town game is praised, your reads may still be shit this game (as far as I understand it)

Also DH is chumba I'm pretty sure @Math

I didn't want to re write or re word anything you said Zoro
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Post Post #586 (isolation #16) » Sun May 27, 2018 9:53 am

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Ah fair. Well I learn something new every day :)

Interestingly though this didn't work for Math in open 719 that I modded as he made Mylo.

I think the pressure/need to vote is pretty NAI. Everyone feels it I guess. I've been called out on my vote usage a million times :lol:
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Post Post #592 (isolation #17) » Sun May 27, 2018 10:02 am

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That seems like wifom to me which again sorta makes it NAI

Sure scum doesn't have to give a flying duck but they might wanna pretend that's the case to get light towncred... But now that we mention that they might not want to do that etc etc

@math why doesn't scum rolefish?

I'll try and see if I can find the mental strength to iso alt
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Post Post #598 (isolation #18) » Sun May 27, 2018 10:20 am

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Care to explain why the vote is good?

I feel as though it's a vote on someone I townread... Dunno how his perspective should change that but you can probably enlighten me :)
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Post Post #715 (isolation #19) » Mon May 28, 2018 9:25 pm

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Okay, and the few following posts are a good case (if that's the right word?). I'm not seeing scum!duck too much BUT if ducky is scum then I'd be open to lynching Zoro.

But if you cop him that's gonna give you a mafia result 95% percent of the time because of the framer (assuming we don't kill them before then) (edit: lol everyone's called this out right after the post itself, but still)

@Math dunno if forgetting the framer is town per se? Could be Hitalt trying to get cop discussion going althought I doubt it; TR on Hitalt.
In post 644, ruru wrote:Doesn't scum.jjh often bus scum.ofrhz in this game state or wouldn't the third scum be hard pushing one of them and not the other or something

Like what's their plan if they're both scum
Personally didn't see the part where jjh hard defends Ofrhz, must've slipped past me, but I'll believe it for now and hopefully re read later. In this case I indeed doubt it's ideal for scum!jj to hard defend his buddy scum!ofrhz. This would sooner be buddying/pocketing of ofrhz by jjh but I'm scumleaning ofrhz. Does anyone with meta have a solid townread on ofrhz?
In post 668, ruru wrote:Woah it's skitter
:lol: :lol: That was my first thought as well :) ducky what happened to the cute duck :/

My condolences pintu :(

I'm liking the SoSm - NSG interactions on page 28, both seeming to be open to each other and being able to turn around. Plus healthy self criticism from Smart I feel in "Well I understand if you don't see reasons to explicitly townread me"
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Post Post #719 (isolation #20) » Mon May 28, 2018 9:36 pm

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VOTE: ofrhrzhrz

I feel the posts-to-content ratio is way too high now.

Ducky can live for now I think?. I should probably iso dive ducky soon but you have so many posts dammit!

I still think Hitalt's connection there is good though.
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Post Post #723 (isolation #21) » Mon May 28, 2018 10:03 pm

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In post 720, the worst wrote:Which connection exactly
The scum ducky --> scum Zoro one. Which I just mentioned
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Post Post #734 (isolation #22) » Tue May 29, 2018 4:54 am

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In post 733, BlackStar wrote:@hewhoswims You had a FoS on Ruru before. Has your read changed?
Although it fits her avatar the latest part of her iso feels a bit too fluffy for me atm.

And every time she naked votes a little part of me dies but that's probably more of a playstyle thingy since scum doesn't gain anything from naked voting, honestly (right?)

Ruru - do you want to talk about the worst? What do you think of the Zoro-Duck connection by HitAlt?
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Post Post #744 (isolation #23) » Tue May 29, 2018 5:56 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Now that dave mentions it

A joint ruru+ofrhz iso shows them barely interacting; a few NAI things at the beginning, ruru voting ofrhz for which barely any reasons get given (the quoted post is the only one it seems, which is not that strong) and ofrhz townreading ruru.

I get the impression these guys have played a few games together, right? Now I'm no meta expert by any means but wouldn't you expect them to be able to like, read each other better, in more detail than is happening now?

While odds of both being scum are obviously low, both of their latest posts haven't been stellar... I think. Discuss?

pedit: Said it before but I think I read Math saying his scumgame is similar to towngame, but he tries to leave the town-motivated parts out as good as he can. If anyone recognizes that... it might warrant a lynch.
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Post Post #751 (isolation #24) » Tue May 29, 2018 6:13 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

I mean I don't disagree. Do you have anything new on him? Or based on past games since you do seem to know each other. How do you feel about his reasons to townread you?

pedit: Yeah, kinda, I was curious if ruru happened to have more on you than the not scumhunting since I think I saw you had played games together in the past.
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Post Post #754 (isolation #25) » Tue May 29, 2018 6:34 am

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Thanks. But what do you mean by siterules? It seems he isn't talking about ongoing games. What's LHF.
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Post Post #758 (isolation #26) » Tue May 29, 2018 6:43 am

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Non game related but why do you think you can't explain because of the site rules? Are you perhaps misreading them? Because anything from past games that are now finished is fine.

Nevertheless thanks for the answers.
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Post Post #872 (isolation #27) » Wed May 30, 2018 6:20 am

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In post 770, ruru wrote:
@Almost50 You have two different ofrhz wagons


(L3 if it's otherwise correct?)
I paid extra for the separate VIP wagon :)
In post 789, Mathdino wrote:been sick. caught up.

sounds like jjh heavily warrants a metaread if he's going to be a lynch contender

TW has slightly more town equity as of these past few pages
i'm so wary about fully disclosing a read on TW before i'm confident in it
so let's just not lynch him today
Well, you said he would be obvtown normally, no? I don't really consider him obvtown this time. Agree there might be better lynches than ducky. At the very least ducky is talking and being active I feel.
In post 796, Zoronos wrote:Math: Here, I wrote this earlier tonight but decided to hold off on posting it. It's a couple hours out of date, I haven't updated it for the last page or so of posts.

Input?

Spoiler: last vc colorized
state of my thoughts with some mild coloring applied. (I realize the green makes it hard to read the names, that's kind of intentional. I wanted them filtered out)

ofrhz
(4):
northsidegal
,
BlackStar
, the worst,
HeWhoSwims
,
the worst (3):
HitAlt
, jjh927,
ofrhz
,
jjh927 (1): Mathdino,
Mathdino (1):
pinturicchio
,
ruru
(1): davesaz,
Something_Smart (1):
ruru
,

Not Voting: Something_Smart,
Zoronos
,


If I'm putting something_smart aside, that means it's 3/4 scum in MathDino, JJH, the_worst, and davesaz.
If the worst is town, that means jjh is probably scum on the wagon, and daze is scum off the wagon, and I'm wrong about something_smart (I don't think there's a solid scum-dino -> town-Duck associative right now)
If the worst is scum, that probably still puts davesaz as scum off the wagon, and makes me think my HWS town-lean is wrong because he +1'ed HitAlt's stupid Zoronos+TW associative, possibly intending to use it if his partner got flipped while voting the counterwagon.

So, the big question atm is whether it's correct or not to put something_smart aside, and to fix the ??'s in my sort on JJH and davesaz.
Why is the Zoronos-TW association stupid? I hope not only because its you :shifty:

Why do you excuse ofrhz here as in why couldn't be the scum on town!worst wagon? I find those 2 to be equally suspicious at this point.
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Post Post #873 (isolation #28) » Wed May 30, 2018 6:21 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

In post 871, ofrhz wrote:His vote on my wagon was bad

He admitted his reasons for scumreading me were weak, yet tried to throw shade on ruru for having those same reasons
Why's mine worse than any other?

I wasn't throwing reads at ruru. I was questioning because I genuinely thought ruru could have more of a read on you as it seems you have experience.
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Post Post #874 (isolation #29) » Wed May 30, 2018 6:22 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

throwing shade, I meant to say. And if it's throwing shade it was also throwing shade at you, I had hoped the same from you, and didn't get it
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Post Post #875 (isolation #30) » Wed May 30, 2018 6:32 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

fwiw - From a quick metaread dave in this game seems more think-y and question-y while scum!dave in our previous game seemed to accuse people more, if that makes sense.
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Post Post #996 (isolation #31) » Wed May 30, 2018 5:48 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

In post 924, ofrhz wrote:
In post 873, HeWhoSwims wrote:
In post 871, ofrhz wrote:His vote on my wagon was bad

He admitted his reasons for scumreading me were weak, yet tried to throw shade on ruru for having those same reasons
Why's mine worse than any other?

I wasn't throwing reads at ruru. I was questioning because I genuinely thought ruru could have more of a read on you as it seems you have experience.
You say ruru’s reasons for scumreading me were weak, weak enough for you to subtly suggest a ruru/ofrhz scumteam, but your reasons for voting for me were literally for the same thing

It doesn’t sound like you actually believe in your reasons for scumreading me
Eh. I personally turned around on the team thingy since you both have since shined and lived up to what I'd hope. So with that UNVOTE:
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Post Post #1116 (isolation #32) » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:42 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Hey! I'm alive. Apologies. A night out and prom happened. I'm gonna be reading up now
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Post Post #1117 (isolation #33) » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:13 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

In post 1028, Zoronos wrote:HWS never really answered the question I posed to him about ofhrz, I don't think. He just unvoted as the wagon disintegrated.
I think I owed someone else a response to something but I've forgotten what it was.
I assume this is about who I prefer as a wagon? I thought ofrhz was pretty inactive, had a low word-to-content ratio and I'm still no big fan. But he did answer my question how I would've liked it so that's a plus. As for the worst, my attitude atm is "he is scummy, but at least he's talking" and it may be useful tomorrow. Maybe my read can be more solid if I re-read his scum performance in the game I modded a while ago. So overall I thought ofrhz was a better lynch and some more scummy
In post 1058, Zoronos wrote:Hey - HeWhoSwims:
a) You never answered my question about ofhrz vs the_worst.
b) What is your opinion on JJH? You talked about him a little bit way back near the start of the day , but if I'm understanding right by that had turned around a bit? So I'm curious where your head is at now.
1- answered
2- idk, dude has slipped by me pretty much. If Math says town!jjh should be obvtown and we can trust that, I don't really think jjh is obvtown and so may be a lynch contender. So much of his posts are 1 liners and I doubt missing them hurts much. However there is still the thing I mentioned in 121 which bugs me in a soft scumread of him.. but I may be overthinking.
In post 1080, pinturicchio wrote:I've played with scum!HWS. I don't feel the same way I felt in that game about him, and I was the one who caught him there. I've not said a lot about that issue because I was biased (I was the Jailkeeper and stopped his shot and I got pretty convinced that that was what happened, since there was a Doc claim too), so maybe my metaread is not as solid as I wish it was... But is definetely enough to push jjh instead of him
*rolls around in agony remembering this game*
In post 1084, ruru wrote:For the record I read somewhere in HWS's meta that he often gets mislynched as town
Sorta. I only have 3 completed town games; 1 on an alt where I didn't get mislynched (but N3 killed after outing my PR D3) and two others on here, Newbies 1839 and 1862 where I got mislynched in LYLO both times (once by NSG, actually). So often is not the right word maybe since the sample size is 3. But it's happened and likely will happen.
In post 1107, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1105, HitAlt wrote:MathDino I'm not worried about yet, because he WILL likely be the first NK, and if not, we then assess his play D2 more closely.
stop saying these kinds of things unless you specifically intend to influence the NK with your words

there are some town thought processes that are best left private and unsaid
And besides town!Dino has lived to Mylo before. Although yes, discussing this takes the validity of NK spec away.
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Post Post #1118 (isolation #34) » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:14 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

If I gotta choose between jjh and the worst I think I'd prefer to lynch jjh but I'll overthink it and see if I have time to read his scumgame I modded.
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Post Post #1133 (isolation #35) » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:21 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

In post 1125, jjh927 wrote:
In post 1118, HeWhoSwims wrote:If I gotta choose between jjh and the worst I think I'd prefer to lynch jjh but I'll overthink it and see if I have time to read his scumgame I modded.
Who are you
I'm HeWhoSwims it says right there at the top of the quote

Hitalt ... I think discussing the Night at this point is really bad regardless of Dino's role pm

Re: Dave. Zoro, he seems to be away for now but overall his posts seem towny and I had a small piece of meta. I wouldn't want to lynch him today.
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Post Post #1136 (isolation #36) » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:02 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

I think he's clearly commenting on stuff, is thinking (showing in his posting) and not afraid to question common townreads or well, people not near the bottom of readslists in Dino/Ruru, for example. Plus he seems townier than our scumgame together.

Indeed I was talking about modding TW.
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Post Post #1154 (isolation #37) » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:03 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

In post 1137, Zoronos wrote:I, hmm...
I’m not really sold on the notion that questioning a consensus town read is inherently towny. I’d think it’s closer to NAI in this case since not much new was uncovered, and it didn’t result in a scum read being pushed.

Commenting on stuff is also an odd take, since his posting has been pretty sparse and largely orthogonal to primary thread topics. Which, again, is fine if it creates and drives a new scum read. But I’m not sure I’ve really seen that here. He’s voting you and now you’re the second largest lynch train, but he effectively dropped a vote and left. He’s not selling that read, not pushing to lynch it.

Talk to me about the notion here that he’s townier than your scum game together. What do you feel we’re the triggers that demarcated his scum posting that are absent here (or vice versa)
I mean I don't think Dave is really in any danger here which is why the questioning would be more townie to me. Don't think he did it as scum where he wasn't in danger either. As for commenting I see (enough, I think) of him questioning people on their motives and just leaving his opinions and reads on stuff, which obviously is a given... but it seems to me as though he's doing less accusing and more evaluating this game and that seems town to me. Hope that's what you wanted to know?
In post 1140, the worst wrote:o yeah nah HWS read on Ruru was tragic
How so>?
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Post Post #1321 (isolation #38) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:25 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Huh what have I done now again

I scumread JJH and I'd lych there
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Post Post #1322 (isolation #39) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:26 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

I have to catch up though
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Post Post #1323 (isolation #40) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:33 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

In post 1164, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 1157, the worst wrote:yeah nah HitAlt lacks an ounce of nuance. this is clearly a fake tunnel.
That actually means it's probably a real tunnel.
I agree with this.
In post 1171, Zoronos wrote:
In post 1154, HeWhoSwims wrote: I mean I don't think Dave is really in any danger here which is why the questioning would be more townie to me. Don't think he did it as scum where he wasn't in danger either. As for commenting I see (enough, I think) of him questioning people on their motives and just leaving his opinions and reads on stuff, which obviously is a given... but it seems to me as though he's doing less accusing and more evaluating this game and that seems town to me. Hope that's what you wanted to know?
That is exactly what I wanted to know. I don’t think I agree with your conclusions, but that type of answer is what I was looking for.

The notion that Dave isn’t in any danger here is precisely why I’m concerned about the type of questioning involved; it looked to me like make work designed to blend in without going anywhere. Neither he nor ruru were under any serious pressure, so he did something that might look like legitimate scum hunting, came to a town read, and moved on. In a vacuum those things are fine, but the questions felt a little facil and the angst a tad oversold.

Anyway, I appreciate the meta perspective. That’s useful, even if I’m not a big believer in the value of meta.
I am or moreso was also not a big fan of meta, but eh. I figured it's worth a try. I don't think dave was really in danger that game until like, halfway Day 3? But I didn't reread the entire game, only his ISO and some stuff surrounding that.
In post 1197, BlackStar wrote:
In post 1189, Mathdino wrote:Hey does anyone remember that game I just modded

That was lost because town didn't fucking vote, even in lylo

Stop not voting holy shit its so tilting to see 3 days on the deadline and people actively not using their vote for shit
We did vote in that game. We lost because hewhoswims wasn't there to break the tie at the end
Stoooop stoppp I still wake up screaming because of this okay
In post 1213, the worst wrote:Zero and ofrhz please have another read of my ISO.

jjh and HitAlt are scum.
I am not getting lynched today. Literally in any scenario.
Duck... I love playing with you but lynching you is tempting. Why is hitalt scum?
In post 1238, jjh927 wrote:I'm the jailkeeper and this would have been a lot less messy if you'd have helped wagon the worst imo
Are you sure?
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Post Post #1324 (isolation #41) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:34 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

I am the jailkeeper... Harclaim, counterclaim, whatever.

Honestly catching scum > exercising my JK ability... If I die it's +1 shot for cop/vig and if scum protects me it's -1 shot for them.
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Post Post #1325 (isolation #42) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:35 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

VOTE: jjh please count this 5 times

JK is our weakest PR anyway I feel...
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Post Post #1328 (isolation #43) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:40 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

At your service.

pedit: same. Why not fakeclaim cop or vig?
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Post Post #1329 (isolation #44) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:41 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

I think JJH is at L-2 though so we need 1 more Zoro.
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Post Post #1333 (isolation #45) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:47 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Yeah, CCs are impossible, it can help in LYLO if you manage to come out as the victor between two claims.

IDK why they'd claim JK either but okay...

What do you mean ruru?
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Post Post #1335 (isolation #46) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:54 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Hmmmm how is this what scum would do
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Post Post #1336 (isolation #47) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:55 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Sorry I hit submit too early.

Why wouldn't they fakeclaim and thereby out Cop or Vig? Then either the outed one will get Jailkept which costs town shots plus neutralizes the powerrole (which I'd deem more valuable than JK) or they are killed at night.
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Post Post #1341 (isolation #48) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:32 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Obviously true but he's not gonna flip jailer
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Post Post #1343 (isolation #49) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:35 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

I know :P
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Post Post #1358 (isolation #50) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:13 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Any reason you're not voting jjh or me, Smart?
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Post Post #1376 (isolation #51) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:29 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Right sorry I stopped reading up at the claim
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Post Post #1380 (isolation #52) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:57 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

I was gonna say something like "I'm not doing anything tonight so I'll be free to discuss " bc Jailkeeper wouldn't act night 1

I think I forgot to :(
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Post Post #1416 (isolation #53) » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:18 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Woot guess I'm an IC now? Must mean I got shit reads
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Post Post #1420 (isolation #54) » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:36 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Or she was killed because she is a good player. Though I'd wonder why her and not you as so far I have more towny experiences with you.

Either way I'm still town on Hitalt
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Post Post #1452 (isolation #55) » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:33 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

In post 1437, Mathdino wrote:I'd rather have a partner for VCA. I'll do the VCA but I need people to do some of the searching work for me.

Announce your hypoinno please.

The purity of the ofrhz wagon heavily implies scum were defending ofrhz for towncred. (or that ofrhz is scum I guess?)
jjh did exactly that. Mentioned ofrhz twice in his whole ISO.
So I could use an ISO dive on ofrhz and a search for people defending him.
I'm mentally dead but I'll read along
In post 1442, ruru wrote:
In post 121, HeWhoSwims wrote:What would you say the jailkeeper would ideally do?
I find voting for this d1 to be highly suspicious (ofrhz, davesaz)
Y tho

This wasn't meant as a crumb but it seems people picked it up as such :lol:
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Post Post #1471 (isolation #56) » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:52 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

I think that was me dinoman.
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Post Post #1521 (isolation #57) » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:59 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

In post 1509, Mathdino wrote:
HOLY SHIT GUYS ALMOST50 IS ACTUALLY 50 WTF

MOST HYPED BIRTHDAY ON MS

HAPPY BIRTHDAY
Happy birthday my dude!

Just don't siteflake now that you username is irrelevant / :shifty:
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Post Post #1626 (isolation #58) » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:39 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Fuck hey I kinda forgot to post

Why is lynching up NSG's readslist a huge plan? She's not sure to be correct.

Hit voters explain why? I can't see it!

I'll have to reread pin but I don't scumread him at all.

I'm still/again wary of Ofrhz. I'll see what y'all spew out.
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Post Post #1628 (isolation #59) » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:45 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Fairly true. Although I'd worry that that's very obvious defense of someone who's been in heat for the entire day... But that's wifom ish.

What do you think of the duck atm?
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Post Post #1778 (isolation #60) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:42 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

It's the big HWS catchup show woot
In post 1561, davesaz wrote:You should be able to meta TR me off team mafia plus other games we've been town together. No research should be necessary.
VOTE: Mathdino
In post 1562, davesaz wrote:That's a fuck you death tunnel btw.
In post 1563, davesaz wrote:I'm gonna ignore this till my blood pressure drops a bit.
This is really fucking weird. Blatant OMGUS. Sure WIFOM is a thing but idk the town benefit of voting Mathdino at this point. Even if you're pissed.

Pintu's theory is a bit lolwhat? As everyone says NSG was very townie yesterday and S_S was a lot less... But I really doubt scum!Pin would want to push this through unironically no?
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Post Post #1781 (isolation #61) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:13 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

In post 1588, davesaz wrote:
In post 1582, ruru wrote:@davesaz Can you post reads as well?
Not while l-2. Refused.
The fuck, dude?
In post 1597, ruru wrote:
In post 1006, davesaz wrote:HWS's recent posting intensified the scumread.
Umm, is this what a would-be weak townread looks like?
In post 1596, davesaz wrote:pinturicchio (medium)
If you aren't bluffing then vote there and make a case

Two players who are scumreading each other both voting for your hypo-inno

Image
Good questions. Good points. Even though I'm a bit iffy about the not voting part; I do that oh so often and I actually recall him voting normally, not holding off on votes, in his scumgame I think? Still, a "medium" read should warrant a vote especially since pintu seems to be central in discussion.
In post 1627, Mathdino wrote:Better than average reads, she tends to have scum in the second lowest tier of her list
She rarely gets totally snowed

Hitalt stonewalled the jjh lynch yesterday
Kay good points about NSG.

But wrong reads =/= scum. I'm sure you know Chumba? They've been hardscumreading people only to have them flip town, while being town himself. I'm not really scumreading him for this. Convince me? Or uh remind me to read a joint iso of jjh+hitalt :)
In post 1659, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1658, HitAlt wrote:My hypoclaim was also bad. I think MathDino might actually be scum here.
and bullshit like this is essentially why we have to lynch either davesaz or hitalt

they're never getting NK'd and they don't seem to understand that TW and i are the ideal NKs right now (besides zoronos)
Wait why is TW an optimal NK? I can believe why he could be scum.
In post 1673, Mathdino wrote:first of all, why are you claiming not cop

second of all, i have an inno on blackstar, and that's legit

third, even if you don't believe i'm the cop, blackstar was next to you as NSG's top townread, and NSG specifically requested that we not turn around and start lynching her top townreads
Claiming not-cop isn't AI though I'd think? It's not like scum!Ruru doing this would be helping the scumteam, they would already know that she's not the cop. Which obviously would go for anyone. And I don't really think it's a try to get others to do the same.

Also I'm not feeling like I'm a big fan of Mathdino's self-meta I have unfairly scumleaned him before based on that and being gamesolvey... I think I can buy it for now and as ruru said sure, he can be lying, but he could just as well really be honest about his self meta here.

@pin: yeah sorry. Posted too soon ;)
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Post Post #1783 (isolation #62) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:32 am

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In post 1735, the worst wrote:ofrhz is probably town we should look elsewhere atm
Hm I should let it be known that ofrhz is far from out of my scumpool... Not my highest scumread/lean but not town yet.
In post 1775, BlackStar wrote:I'm starting to get tired of seeing everyone rely on meta to read people
Kinda the same
Partially fueled by the fact I've barely played multiple games with anyone here.
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Post Post #2045 (isolation #63) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:26 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Why again are we letting dave go right now :shifty:
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Post Post #2241 (isolation #64) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:59 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

I mean I don't have a big townread or anything on pin but I just wasn't seeing him as scum rn

But being conftown != Being correct so I may just be wrong here

I townread Zoro Math ruru and yes still Hitalt (sorta)

I think scum would be in {Dave Ofrhz ducky}

Blackstar is ummmm :shifty:
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Post Post #2242 (isolation #65) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:01 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Rolecop is the 'best' PR I think.. both Framer and Doc require both themselves and the opposing town PR to pick the same person. I doubt the rolecop would bus
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Post Post #2267 (isolation #66) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:57 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Why am I alive, are my reads that bad?

Anyway

We're at 6:1 right now. That's great odds. I assume cop used their shot right now meaning we went to 0 shots left which is now 1 due to ruru dying.

The cop should use that shot I feel.

I think it could be good to hypoclaim again? For inno's. And then the cop can use their shot coming night. Let's assume they survive the night.

Then we have 3 cop results probably. And we're left in 4:1.

What about if at that point the cop claims...? Then the results are out. Scum can't CC. That would earn them a lynh in 2:1.
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Post Post #2268 (isolation #67) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:58 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

so I think that if the cop claims today I'm gonna
expletive
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Post Post #2269 (isolation #68) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:58 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

^the above at least gives us the cop and hopefully some results

I think that even in case of a guilty today claiming may not be optimal? If this is the case cop can just hypo-inno someone else since by default they are town.
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Post Post #2271 (isolation #69) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:03 am

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And if the cop dies for w/e reason I can at least protect one of the innos at night

pedit: lol true but 1 of the clears may have died

I think hypo is better still since they are confirmed to be real results upon death

Obviously cop should claim if they have a guilty since there is only 1 scum not multiple

sorry got enthusiastic
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Post Post #2276 (isolation #70) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:07 am

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Math why wouldn't we take advantage of the slight possibility of the cop being anonymous

Perhaps one of the rolcop shots was on ruru
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Post Post #2291 (isolation #71) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:14 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

In post 2280, BlackStar wrote:
In post 2276, HeWhoSwims wrote:Math why wouldn't we take advantage of the slight possibility of the cop being anonymous

Perhaps one of the rolcop shots was on ruru
Why would they rolecop the person they killed? Hitalt was obviously the vig shot
I meant night 1
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Post Post #2292 (isolation #72) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:15 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Look I townread math and all but I'm not ready to lose this game to the off chance that he's playing straight against his meta okay
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Post Post #2297 (isolation #73) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:17 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

This isnt your pm right? doubt thats allowed

pedit: ducky I love love love playing with you but I scumread you way more
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Post Post #2302 (isolation #74) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:19 am

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Wait why is dave conftown all of a sudden

There aint no cop claim here
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Post Post #2308 (isolation #75) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:21 am

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95% you're town Math but I'd rather not risk anything after the joyful sequence of events that have taken place...

pedit: oh I missed that claim by BStar then
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Post Post #2312 (isolation #76) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:23 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Right

Yeah that conftowns me Blackstar Dave Ofrhz

even if Blackstar is scum someway somehow that's me+dave+ofrhz

So we lynch in Math Duck and Zoro

Starting with Duck

I'm sorry lil fella

VOTE: the worst
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Post Post #2318 (isolation #77) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:24 am

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We have 1 shot the coming night, who should use it?
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Post Post #2322 (isolation #78) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:25 am

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That hammer was a work of art
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Post Post #2340 (isolation #79) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:34 am

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WE WANT A POEM MATH
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Post Post #2342 (isolation #80) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:37 am

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Definitely starting to love the open queue y'all

Was about time I won a game again :P
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Post Post #2351 (isolation #81) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:01 am

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This was a great game regardless of alignment tbh
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Post Post #2359 (isolation #82) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:10 am

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Pretty decent game for me after being semi aware of duck and jjh... Pint had me fooled though! Second time he outsmarts me yet my faction won over his both times :lol:
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Post Post #2445 (isolation #83) » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:04 pm

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Very late but thanks for the modding and the dad jokes A50 (Actually50)
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