Open 729 - Cul de Sac!

[BuJaber]

Sure but don't you think her reads might be outdated? She has to at least confirm that she didn't change her mind.

[Mathdino]

If you really think she can be bop on my slot then we should flip me.

That's the thing
Im not sure i do
But I think she might expect me to BoP her on you and that's why she's hesitant to lynch you

[Scioness Sajj]

meh, it's true that it doesn't make much sense for scum nsg to try to mislynch me d1 when you are around.

idk

[northsidegal]

I'm a little peeved with NSG for this gamestate

Like I recognize that not voting is a style and works when the town can kind of run and wagon by itself

But that's not happening, and this town has essentially 0 direction or unity

And I can't exactly push a case when NSG isn't even doing shit herself

NSG please vote ffs this is the one kind of gamestate where you need to be voting

been isck

VOTE: scioness

by the way, i like that the bird is back scioness

[northsidegal]

the kind of player i am is realistic. i think you do have okay reasons to townread uglyduck, i just disagree with them. and even if i did agree with them, i still wouldn't consider them actionable since meta can be very easily manipulated, both purposefully when you know you're playing with people who have seen your scumgame before, and incidentally by getting better at the game of mafia and by random life factors. i would never lock someone away as do-not-lynch purely on the basis of meta

i dont necessarily disagree with you (except for how easily meta can be manipulated especially by uglyduck especially no offense uglyduck just a comment on how good i think your scumgame is) but every time ive seen this conversation had the person with the meta townread has been right every single time

[northsidegal]

I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm starting to want to policy lynch NSG

that's stupid

[northsidegal]

Like she's scumreading scioness but doing fuckall to actually test that scumread

She's either incompetent at basic townplay this game or I was wrong earlier

to test it? what is tha tsupposed to mean?

i tested it by asking the question of one of the conclusions she had come to, but then i realized tha ti could just as easily test it by waiting to see if she said any of those conclusions herself without me indicating that i was looking for something in specific

i can't remember myself "testing" scumreads very often before. where are you getting this idea from?

[northsidegal]

(i also think this was probably you testing to see how i'd react to being incompetent, but that could just be me thinking (hoping?) that you're not actually calling me incompetent)

[northsidegal]

being

called

incompetent, that is, as per jjh last game

[northsidegal]

My paranoia is that she's avoiding being BoPd on how generally good she is at reading scioness

consider that after my previous times reading scioness i don't want to ruin my "record"

having thought about it more though i decided that that really isn't a way to play the game so even if i'm wrong here i think i'm going to be pushing for it harder. even if i was wrong and got nightkilled after i would have pushed for my top scumread, which is at least better than having been right and not done enough. sorry scioness if i'm wrong.

[Scioness Sajj]

meh it's a good thing

you won't claim you can read me anymore

[Scioness Sajj]

still don't feel good about nsg town though.

[northsidegal]

If you really think she can be bop on my slot then we should flip me.

i also get the feeling that this is a gambit. obviously my pre-existing view had you as scum and as such coming from that mindset this would have to be a gambit, but even evaluated on its own i think this should be seen as a gambit.

as far as i can remember this game and from what i've checked so far you've never on your own asked me what the reasons i've been scumreading you for are. the absence of that seems strange to me for someone who not only believes that i can read them, but believed that i entered the game "confidently scumreading" them (from post 273)

in fact, if anything you've kind of ignored me so far. you didn't really respond to anything i said when i entered the game outside of my

direct questions

to you. that doesn't really make sense to me coming from town you if you townread me - if you can explain that to me, i'd like to hear it. this reminds me of kind of an RC-style point - especially after 721, i feel like scioness as town should show at least a little bit more interest is what i have to say. scioness asking mylo and wingetcatgirl about their reads but mostly ignoring me comes to mind and serves as kind of a noteworthy juxtaposition.

---

even if you scumread me from my entrance, the point still stands. you certainly haven't put much into any sort of effort to lynch me or even convince people that i'm scum at all if you believe that i'm scum misreading you. these are your mentions of me being scum:

why not wagon nsg?

Whatever you need to justify that read

That you're getting scum points but I'm not really worried about you

Enough competent people around that won't let you coast through the game

to me, that doesn't really sound like someone who truly scumreads me, nor does it sound like someone who thinks that i'm town but is misreading her. it really just sounds to me like you're scum and kind of awkwardly handling the situation.

[northsidegal]

meh it's a good thing

you won't claim you can read me anymore

does it bother you? sorry, if so.

if it changes anything, i think the only time i said that (if i said it at all) was as scum justifying my fake read on you - in 721 i never said "i can read you", i just mostly talked about meta and what i thought of your play that game as coming from my own point of view, as all reads come from.

[northsidegal]

i even put "record" in quotes here as it kind of made me grimace typing it out. i think it's always been something that other people have built up for me rather than something that i've talked about myself (except perhaps as scum).

consider that after my previous times reading scioness i don't want to ruin my "record"

[Scioness Sajj]

are you pushing for my lynch or apologizing about mislynching me?

i mean you have been loud about wanting to read me well, i guess you just got lucky

[northsidegal]

are you pushing for my lynch or apologizing about mislynching me?

i mean you have been loud about wanting to read me well, i guess you just got lucky

there's no reason i can't do the first thing and then pre-empt the second should it be necessary -shrug-

on a game-relevant note, are you really saying that, if you're town, my misreading you this once here is an indication that i've just been lucky the other times? that seems like kind of a disingenuous / manipulative thing to say

[Scioness Sajj]

why so?

i assume that your ability to read me should get progressively better, not worse. if you are reading me here for the same things you were reading me in PYP then yeah i think that was actually luck.

[Scioness Sajj]

In post 624, Scioness Sajj wrote:
If you really think she can be bop on my slot then we should flip me.

i also get the feeling that this is a gambit. obviously my pre-existing view had you as scum and as such coming from that mindset this would have to be a gambit, but even evaluated on its own i think this should be seen as a gambit.

gambit based on lynching me d1?

[northsidegal]

why so?

i assume that your ability to read me should get progressively better, not worse. if you are reading me here for the same things you were reading me in PYP then yeah i think that was actually luck.

people seem to assume that more of my reads are based on meta than they actually are. i suppose that in 721 it was my meta knowledge of you that even gave me my scumread in the first place, but this game it wasn't really meta that started it in the first place - it's meta that can kind of confirm that some of the things that i'm seeing may actually be relevant. it's not accurate to say that it's for the "same reasons", i.e. the same tells or whatever. (my read on you in 721 was a toneread anyways)

i'll give an example (for no reason in particular i guess, just feeling in a writing mood right now i suppose). in a game that just finished recently, Open 728, i scumread jjh for an inconsistent / nonsensical thought process that only made sense to me coming from scum as well as an awkward white knight.

Spoiler: here are those posts if you care

but seriously, i think jjh is scum. given his reasoning for unvoting zoronos in 31 i don't even understand why he was voting him in the first place.

i don't get why he even brings up me being more interested in him than in my own wagon if he doesn't have any conclusion to draw from it. i don't see how it's "worth noting" in the first place, then?

i also think his vote on blackstar for blackstar voting zoronos is kind of an awkward white knight. sure, zoronos looks kind of towny here, but i'm not sure if these were entirely warranted:

VOTE: BlackStar

That's how you get to happen. He's been an extremely positive presence in getting out of RVS

Looks more legit to me than what you're saying

this is also worth noting - the vote on pintu was essentially RVS at a point where serious things were being discussed and

and

after he said that he prefers to break away from RVS sooner as a justification for his initial vote on zor.

I think the faster we break away from RVS, the better, and to do that generally involves making a mountain out of a molehill and then stripmining that mountain for its precious content

No idea what I'm making of it yet


VOTE: Pintu

Mr Blue Sky!

there was talk of his meta and him being obvtown as town at the time, but meta wasn't what gave me my read on him in the first place. it's kind of the same thing with you here - from what i initially read that you had posted, i just got the sense that you weren't actually sorting. it wasn't necessarily related to you as a player specifically, just what i saw in your ISO, same as jjh.

later on in the game when there was still deliberation about who to lynch, i looked specifically at jjh's meta and got more specific reasons to scumread him:

Spoiler:

i also have yet to really look through JJH's meta, but if i find that in his town games he

doesn't

do this "one liners only and not really all that engaged with this game"...

i don't actually know what i'm going to do. sigh loudly to myself, i guess.

i don't think JJH has quoted to respond to a single thing this game that didn't directly mention him or ask him a question. if someone can find me an example of this - i'm being completely sincere here - i would be interested to see it.

and i think that situation and this one are pretty comparable (i hope they're comparable in a lot of ways, given that jjh flipped scum) - my initial read didn't really have much to do with meta at all, but later on i found meta specific reasons for

more

reasons to scumread that person, rather than finding from a metadive that what i was seeing was actually NAI or even town-indicative.

[Scioness Sajj]

as far as i can remember this game and from what i've checked so far you've never on your own asked me what the reasons i've been scumreading you for are. the absence of that seems strange to me for someone who not only believes that i can read them, but believed that i entered the game "confidently scumreading" them (from post 273)

why would I ask for your reasons? i believe you can read me, i never knew how you could do that. besides that, you have pretty early explained those reasons to math so.

[northsidegal]

i assume that your ability to read me should get progressively better, not worse. if you are reading me here for the same things you were reading me in PYP then yeah i think that was actually luck.

(also, that's a pretty brutal standard: you can't have a

single game

of misreading someone, or it was always just luck in the first place?)

In post 624, Scioness Sajj wrote:
If you really think she can be bop on my slot then we should flip me.

i also get the feeling that this is a gambit. obviously my pre-existing view had you as scum and as such coming from that mindset this would have to be a gambit, but even evaluated on its own i think this should be seen as a gambit.

gambit based on lynching me d1?

are you saying it couldn't be a gambit? honest question.

[northsidegal]

as far as i can remember this game and from what i've checked so far you've never on your own asked me what the reasons i've been scumreading you for are. the absence of that seems strange to me for someone who not only believes that i can read them, but believed that i entered the game "confidently scumreading" them (from post 273)

why would I ask for your reasons? i believe you can read me, i never knew how you could do that. besides that, you have pretty early explained those reasons to math so.

if you believe that i can read you and you're town, it should be strange to you that i was scumreading you. i imagine that town!you should have been curious about that - more questioning.

on the other hand, if town!you considered my scumread on you to be a scumclaim, then i also imagine that town!you should have said more about my being scum. that also hasn't happened.

obviously i have more reasons (more reasons that i'm currently taking a break from typing to write this), but i think this is a pretty good core of my reasons on you being scum.

[Scioness Sajj]

i really don't feel like discussing any of this, it's not like i'm going to out argument you

i will write down some sort of readlist tomorrow and we can lynch me.

[northsidegal]

i really don't feel like discussing any of this, it's not like i'm going to out argument you

i will write down some sort of readlist tomorrow and we can lynch me.

if that's the way you prefer it to be.

sorry for seemingly making this game less fun for you, no matter what your alignment is.