to continue my "reasons where i'm coming from in scioness being scum", it doesn't seem to me that she has any genuine convictions in scumreads. there's people she "would vote", but nobody that it seems like she really thinks is a great vote and wants to convince other people on.
i want anyone reading this to keep this post in mind:
i felt a little better about Mutant after some of his new posts but i would vote him still. i think i'd vote anybody but math and bujaber.
aa9 over UD. wingedcatgirl over mylon. don't understand people townreading seal. would also consider nsg but here's probably no support for this.
now, lack of confidence / conviction on its own (and ignoring meta) isn't necessarily scum indicative and can vary from game to game, but i just don't see behavior that i expect from town scioness.
for example, let's look at the line "don't understand people townreading seal". luckily, a similar situation happened in Newbie 1867 where scioness was scumreading a person that someone else was townreading. in that game, Ircher had Harambey as town along with a list of posts that he felt were towny or scummy, but without reasoning. people asked him to provide reasoning in general, but he refused and wanted people to ask him to provide reasoning on specific posts. (if you'd like to read the full context for yourself i recommend starting here
now, instead of asking ircher for reasoning on specific posts, scioness took the initiative and just started talking about the posts that he noted, giving
her own
take on them:
In post 473, Scioness Sajj wrote:Ircher, I'm here! Alright, so I have decided to give me thoughts about the posts that stood up to both of us and you can agree/disagree give your own? I guess that's the best approach to this.
I think the fact that he hasn't posted yet is strange. He's been active onsite for a while after the L-1 wagon formed, and I think that it's likelier that he is scum who is avoiding posting for a little while in the hopes that what's mostly just a baseless wagon will die out than town who saw the wagon form and had nothing to say/could find nothing to address.
Other fairly equivalent votes I could see myself making are Alciel and creppy. I don't believe that either have them have done more than the bare minimum to play the game, which is sometimes a sign of scum who is uncomfortable.
The wagon was mostly formed thanks to RVS so I didn't have much to defend against.
Besides, wagons this early on hardly ever get said person lynched.
Why would I try to 'defend' myself against a wagon this early on? By staying silent I also won't give scum more information / opportunities to throw more shade in me. And the more I talk, the more I'm putting myself in a losing position based on the past. Because of how I verbalize things, I guess.
What bothers me about this posts is the use of 'defend' and how much Harambey shrug his lack of response off with pro-town motivation.
Nachomamma's post resolves around lack of reaction but Harambey answer is about defending himself. I understand '
The wagon was mostly formed thanks to RVS so I didn't have much to defend against. Besides, wagons this early on hardly ever get said person lynched.
' as him saying that he couldn't defend himself because there weren't any arguments against him and the wagon wasn't serious anyway. My conclusion is that he was concerned with overreacting and being lynched because of that and he sort of admits to it with the past experience part. That's okay, it's a reaction based on his experience.
But he put an emphasis on the thing being just an RVS wagon, which pings me because i believe it comes from his need to actually defend himself. Defense by trying to appear that he doesn't care.
The argument about staying silent so he won't give scum more info is pretty bad. Town needs to talk to get anything done and experience scum will always find something they can exploit. You can avoid this, scum will find a way to push if they want. I don't really understand why he had those thoughts when he is also trying to shrug the rvs as not important?
Plus, I agree that ofrhz jumped the gun here and should have waited longer to see how/if Harambey actually reacts to naked L-1. We don't know if Harambey saw the l-1 vote when it was posted or just got to the thread after he was at l-2. Still, I think it warranted a reaction as either alignment and was an opportunity to start a discussion.
In post 39, Nachomamma8 wrote:"He didn't state a reason, so I voted for him" - why do you have a policy of voting people who don't state reasons?
"Didn't state mine since no one really asked him why for his vote" - I don't understand what other people's reactions to him has to do with how you approach him here; it seems a bit backwards to me. Like, I could see if you were voting for someone and didn't feel like stating reasons because they've already been said but I don't understanding voting someone and NOT giving reasons because no one else seemed to see or care about the same thing you did. Help me out?
His vote didn't have a reason compared to others that at least posted something though nothing concrete, it's my first game and I'm still testing the waters, I'm also waiting if someone would question my lack of reasoning since I don't know if not giving reasoning is that common or not.
Giving (good) reasoning will often make others trust you more than when you don't give any reasoning at all.
My vote was a random vote as we were in RVS, which stands for Random Voting Stage. In my opinion, random votes don't necessarily need reasoning. I mean, it's random, what would a reasoning be for a random vote?
Most people say something else like 'Hello everyone!' or a 'joke reasoning' as to why their random voted player should get more votes. Eventually there will be one player that has the most votes at some point. That person will then usually speak up so that the players have something to discuss about and over time, people will form reads. Then players will argue about each others' reads and posts and get someone lynched. This all started with the random voting stage.
I was that 'player' this time that got the most votes. So I had to speak to persuade people I'm a Townie (which, in fact, I am) and vote elsewhere.
At this point, most players will start to discuss my recent posts, and probably the ones of Nachomamma and I guess yours too.
I don't know how familiar you are with mafia games so I approached you here as if you're pretty new to the game. I hope this is okay as how it is.
I don't understand why you have got town vibes from this post. It's mostly game mechanics explaining post so that's nai to me. The only thing that stands out to me is the bolded part and I'm particularly fond of, the part in brackets, but not really scum read on its own.
Spoiler: post 210, Harambey180
In post 210, Harambey180 wrote:Ircher's post 202 is pretty much a compilation of '28 things that you guys could have done better'. I like the effort you put into making such a long post consisting of 28 things you think about, but it's not quite my style.
Also, because it's a long post, it is probably a good idea to bold some parts like questions. I read about half of it because I don't want to spend too much time on this game and I have other things to do as well. If you asked me questions, then I missed them and please repeat them for me.
Your readslist is still pretty good though. It's not the type of readslist that I'm used to see but I can see you really thought well about your reads. I'm still not really fond about, how to say this, what you want with your posts. I can't really think of a way to say this that you will understand what I'm trying to say, but whatever.
Finally, when I saw that 'town leader' thing you said about me in your read on me, I remembered an idea I had earlier. I thought it would be a good idea if we had someone as a 'team leader' that coordinates everything that happens. Probably two people, because there's a chance that if we assigned this 'task' to one person, that person could be scum. If you picked two people that seem to absolutely disagree with eachother then the odds of both being scum is about 0 percent, so then you'd have at least one Townie in the team leader group. I don't know what you guys think...??
Should we need one or two people as team leader(s) to coordinate everything that happens in this game?
Things like: making sure that one discussion doesn't go out of hand, let people take turns, make sure that two topics aren't discussed at the same time (because that's less efficient imo). That's what I'm thinking of rn.
As we both were getting scum vibes from this post and I'm tired tell me first for what you are scumreading this one and I will elaborate tomorrow.
i find it hard to believe that the same person who went through all this trouble and just got all of her thoughts out there to talk to someone about a read they disagreed on would just leave things at "i don't understand why people are townreading this person". and it's not just that one post that i quoted at the top from this game that i feel shows the difference - i just don't many posts at all that resemble the one right above.
i'll be upfront in that it's not as if
no
posts of that nature exist in her ISO: i found one, but i think focusing on the simple presence makes less sense than focusing on the depth and frequency of them.
In post 213, BuJaber wrote:Point I'm trying to make is that this low activity is making uglyduck and Sajj find things that IMO are just not there.
what have i said that you felt you need to dismiss it?
You've touched on this with mutant and it might be a perspective thing. But basically I think Seal's RVS posts that you talk about are neutral and quite normal for RVS. In your opinion you might be seeing something scummy like you told mutant but I don't and it felt to me that the quietness in thread is motivating you and others to look for things for the sake of looking.
I don't think Seal participated in RVS. It was not random at all.
First 24 hours after the game started the thread was pretty active and that's also the time when Seal posted for the first time.
Now if I didn't have a townread on you I'd be interpretting this differently but as you can see I'm quite open to the possibility that you did in fact find it scummy and have good reason to. So 3 options:
Where's that townread coming from even? What makes it so strong that you didn't reconsider it but you did with UglyDuck?
You are open to the possibility that what I find scummy is a product of boredom.
I thought it was 3 hence the comment. By the way 217 is incredibly hypocritical coming from you. Guess it's a good thing hypocrisy tends to be a towntell, unlike inconsistency which tends to be scummy.
He asked a question and I have answered the question exactly how it was asked, what's hypocritical about it? If you have 218 in mind then idk. I never complained about the game state.
For the record I think nsg has one of those metas where it's almost always better to not lynch them early.
What about NSG meta makes her always better to lynch her later instead of earlier?
meh. a lot of what you are posting is what you expect me to do/say/think wrt your slot and besides saying that i just didn't think of it like that there is much to say. i don't really think it's worth the effort.
(if you were townreading me in 721 then you have no reacord on reading me).
In post 652, Scioness Sajj wrote:meh. a lot of what you are posting is what you expect me to do/say/think wrt your slot and besides saying that i just didn't think of it like that there is much to say. i don't really think it's worth the effort.
only party of it, really. i think my points regarding your conviction in your reads is independent of your interactions with me.
(if you were townreading me in 721 then you have no reacord on reading me).
not
town
reading,
tone
reading, as in tone of voice. i decidedly was not townreading you in 721.
mathdino is town - mostly based on how he backed off of his 1v1 with wave, he is most likely to die tonight so would be great to get some directions from him before eod.
wave - i sort of townread this slot but i'd stay cautious.
invis - recently commented on this slot
ud - same as above
unrealseal - same. i guess i could be reading him of the playstyle, but even though he could actually get curious about something and ask some question if he was actually looking for anything.
bujaber - pretty confident he is town
aa9 - wish i knew what to do with her
In post 632, northsidegal wrote:(i also think this was probably you testing to see how i'd react to being incompetent, but that could just be me thinking (hoping?) that you're not actually calling me incompetent)
Why am I so fucking bad at reaction tests
I don't think I'm a bad actor, I can lie just fine as scum
Smh
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 632, northsidegal wrote:(i also think this was probably you testing to see how i'd react to being incompetent, but that could just be me thinking (hoping?) that you're not actually calling me incompetent)
Why am I so fucking bad at reaction tests
I don't think I'm a bad actor, I can lie just fine as scum
to paraphrase my hood with Stefan/Awoo (nothing game related happened in the other one).
Spoiler:
1. Stefan asked if anything about Math or Mutant pinged me.
2. I answered that it was rvs and that 41 pinged me (Dino's post irrc) but it was because of how he used 'on the other hand' so most likely irrelevant.
3. Stefan gives and example why PTs are useful and said he doesn't want to defend Math in the thread.
4. I agree. Later ask him about Seal's opening.
5. Stefan said he understands why I didn't like it. He doesn't like wagon on wave even though he hopes that Bu is town. <- there was the neighbor mention.
6. I corrected that it wasn't as much of a wagon as it was seal's focus on wave v dino. and that i didn't get a bad feeling from BuJaber's vote.
Awoo replaces in:
1. Awoo tells me that i'm his top townread.
2. I expressed disbelief that he would twonread me like that.
3. He asked me if I have any reads.
4. I have told him my updated reads:
nsg will obvtown soon enough untill that she is scum
math - that think with wave and i'd worry if he doesn't die
mylo or winged - was not interested n lynching them
mutant - i felt better about him and it was also mentioned.
seal - read didn't change
5. Awoo agreed on nsg. also agreeded on mylo and winged since there were people he wanted to lynch more. he said he doesn't know how to read mylo and that math said mylo is lynchbaity.
6. I explained mylon and mutant but too lazy to paraphrase, will probably do anyway if i can't copy that.
7. I asked about Bujaber after the hood thing.
8. Awoo said it was weird and that he still doesn't know how to read Bu's alignment.
this is here mostly here because Awoo has ignored Mathdino asking if i have shared anything after engaging mylo/winged (and all my talk with Awoo happened when I was vla). I'm not sure if this is something he should be scumread for but perhaps good enough to talk about d2.
@Sajj you can quote from PTs. I've already asked the mod that question in my own PTs.
@Dino - what's your definition of "actively"? Can we treat your vote as Aa9 passing that line already?
@catgirl - hello ms. Day 2 lynch (likely scum if nsg is town.. but I'd be surprised if both are scum)
If sajj flips town I'm considering this wagon a scumclaim by nsg. And if she is then I'm finally alive in a game to witness it. Her scumgame is evidently top notch if this is how she builds fake cases. I have only seen her lurking side.
Saji has become the
most informative
lynch. But I don't agree with the scumread. I think it's a matter of interpretation. Therefore it's not the
best
lynch. That's still uglyduck.
Nsg - your reads on uglyduck and aa9 please? And share any other updated reads you may have please.
There's still the matter of the lying during neighbor claims. I am still interested in any info that exposes who lied so we can ask them why and see if we believe them to be town based on what they say or we lynch them for lying.
@Nsg (unless you think I'm scum which would need to be addressed as it ruins this particular point) - read my interactions with sajj from 381 onwards until my revote on duck. Do you think scum!sajj would bother to correct me? All she did was state a simple fact that made me jump to all sorts of conclusions that could have easily lead to an Awoo lynch and she would have gotten no heat over it and in fact possibly gotten me lynched over it also. Basically I find that behavior really odd for scum unless she's partners with awoo but that's doubtful considering she claimed stefan hoped that I'm town this game. I can't imagine stefan saying that to his own scum partner. And I also can't imagine scum!sajj came up with that lie because it would involve looking up games I've played with stefan then reading our interactions with them then correctly guessing that it is something he would say.
