[SETUP] Round and Round

[Irrelephant11]

Okay so I had this idea for a setup. I have little interest in modding ever but I still like to think about setups.

10 town

3 scum

Both teams are placed randomly on a rotating “wheel” of power roles and vanilla slots.

Town Wheel:

1 Vanilla townie
2 Vanilla townie
3 Vanilla townie
4 Tracker
5 Doctor
6 Vanilla townie
7 Town slotcop
8 Vanilla townie
9 Vanilla Cop
10 Vanilla townie
11 1-shot bulletproof

Mafia Wheel

1 Mafia Rolecop
2 Mafia Roleblocker
3 Mafia goon
4 Mafia goon

Note that one slot is randomly empty on both wheels.

Players receive role PMs at the beginning of the game, but goons and vts will have no way to know what slot they start on.

Between each night phase and the following day phase, every player is moved down a slot, and they receive a new role PM (if any).

Whenever a player is killed by any means, their role, alignment AND slot flip, and are removed from their respective wheel. All slots below it on the wheel “collapse” upwards to keep even numerical order. Example: The first lynch is “7 Town slotcop”, Mafia Wheel remains unaffected, Town slots 1-6 remain unaffected, and Town slots 8-11 move up to 7-10.

Wheels are public information at all times.

Slotcop receives as a night result the slot number currently occupied by the player. As the wheels currently stand, a result of “3” could mean either VT or goon, while a result above 4 is always town.

When shot at, the 1-shot bulletproof role becomes “0-shot bulletproof” for all future role PMs.

I like a lot of the ideas I put into this, but am clueless about EV calculation. I’d love if anyone shared those or if any experts shared instinctual balance thoughts.

[Irrelephant11]

How so? Mafia can kill the doctor and roleblock an investigative if they know who they are, removing those roles from the game

[Irrelephant11]

*removing doctor from game and preventing much town info

[Irrelephant11]

Explain “causes a lot of issues” - for mafia? For the setup? If either of you have suggestions to fix the problems you see, I’m open to them!

I tried to somewhat discourage claiming tracker by making the next thing doctor... should there be more power roles back to back?

[Irrelephant11]

I mean, tracker won't be outing D2, as they'd die as doctor, the vanilla cop can only verify one person's Pr/not PR claim (not necessarily their alignment), and if the slotcop gets a "guilty" (#1-4), that player can easily say "Oh, well I got vanilla townie twice in a row, so that makes sense". Also, if everyone claims D2 what they were the previous day, scum can reasonably shoot for a PR with a fair chance of success (with both NK and roleblocker).

What if slots 8 and 9 swap?

1 Vanilla townie
2 Vanilla townie
3 Vanilla townie
4 Tracker
5 Doctor
6 Vanilla townie
7 Town slotcop
8 Vanilla Cop
9 Vanilla townie
10 Vanilla townie
11 1-shot bulletproof

This makes claiming even less beneficial, as scum know another PR location for sure.

Also, I had originally set this up where scum has a slotcop instead of a rolecop. Sounds like that would help with balance, yes?

[Irrelephant11]

I don't think there's that much information to be gained, on average, by asking the three investigatives for their results, and both scum AND doctor have incentive to lie about being a vt the night before, making it hard to discern who's lying and why.

Another thought that might balance things - after D1, only scum knows which slots are dying, while town only receives the role/alignment?

[Irrelephant11]

What about something like...

1 Vanilla townie
2 Vanilla townie
3 Vanilla townie
4 Tracker
5 Doctor
6 Vanilla townie
7 Vanilla townie
8 Vanilla townie
9 Vanilla townie
10 Town slotcop
11 Vanilla Cop

This would leave five townies unsure of their slot by D2, and two town PRs somewhat incentivized to hide their slot D2. Not to mention, if mafia can figure out the empty town slot, they can safely claim it. Actually, is that what would be more helpful? A couple more empty slots on the town wheel?

Or perhaps even mafia being told at gamestart which slot is empty? Though, that might be overcompensating...

[Irrelephant11]

Another wheel, with more room for mafia fakeclaims:

1 Vanilla townie
2 Vanilla townie
3 Vanilla townie
4 Tracker
5 Doctor
6 Vanilla townie
7 Vanilla townie
8 Vanilla townie
9 1-shot Bulletproof
10 Vanilla townie
11 Vanilla townie
12 Town Slotcop
13 Vanilla Cop

Three slots are empty. If scum can manage to get town to claim first, they can claim the three empty slots and know where the PRs are. If they're forced to claim first, this wouldn't work, but in that case "mafia git gud".

Then some possible rule changes:

Slots are only revealed to mafia on death, while everyone learns role/alignment. This gives mafia more cover to claim "townie twice" and keep that claim consistent all game.

and/or

Mafia rolecop becomes mafia day slotcop.

Obviously part of my goal here is to share power - any town who lasts four days gets to play a PR, assuming reasonably good town play (not letting all the PRs die early).

[Irrelephant11]

Telling mafia which roles were randed empty would somewhat fix this, no?

[Irrelephant11]

Edited version:

10 town

3 scum

Both teams are placed randomly on a rotating “wheel” of power roles and vanilla slots.

Town Wheel:

1 Vanilla townie
2 Vanilla townie
3 Vanilla townie
4 Tracker
5 Doctor
6 Vanilla townie
7 Vanilla townie
8 Vanilla townie
9 1-shot Bulletproof
10 Vanilla townie
11 Vanilla townie
12 Town Slotcop
13 Vanilla Cop

Mafia Wheel

1 Mafia Rolecop
2 Mafia Roleblocker
3 Mafia goon
4 Mafia goon

Note that there are always empty slots. Mafia are told which town slots are empty at gamestart.

Players receive role PMs at the beginning of the game, but goons and vts will have no way to know what slot they start on.

Between each night phase and the following day phase, every player is moved down a slot, and they receive a new role PM (if any).

Whenever a player is killed by any means, their role, alignment AND slot flip, and are removed from their respective wheel. All slots below it on the wheel “collapse” upwards to keep even numerical order. Example: The first lynch is “7 Town slotcop”, Mafia Wheel remains unaffected, Town slots 1-6 remain unaffected, and Town slots 8-13 move up to 7-12.

Wheels are public information at all times.

Slotcop receives as a night result the slot number currently occupied by the player. As the wheels currently stand, a result of “3” could mean either VT or goon, while a result above 4 is always town.

Edit:

When shot at, the 1-shot bulletproof role becomes “0-shot bulletproof” for all future role PMs

. When shot at, the 1-shot bulletproof's 1-shot is used up for the rest of the game (i.e. the "1-shot" doesn't just reset every time a new player has the role). Future players who move into this slot are notified by a separate PM that the shot has been used.

[Irrelephant11]

Yes, I want that slot to read as “not Vanilla” to the Vanilla cop and to only help town survive one shot.

Are there other setups that involve changing role PMs and x-shot bulletproofs?

[Irrelephant11]

I guess all I'm saying is that when a vanilla townie moves into the bulletproof slot, they know if the slot still has a bulletproof shot or not. Regardless, the slot never becomes vanilla. However mod wants to make that clear is fine.

I think we're saying the same thing, actually. the shot is expended, and anyone who becomes that role knows it.

[Irrelephant11]

Ohhhh right I don't want rolecop to get that info. Okay let me edit that.

[Irrelephant11]

@callforjudgment, I think you missed the part where scum are told which three town slots are empty, giving them realistic fakeclaims

This is specifically only in the edited version, but I’m pretty sure it addresses the claiming strategies from town

[Irrelephant11]

Also as a side note if the first lynch is the 1-shot bulletproof there are suddenly two more clueless Vanilla townies come D3

But anyway yeah it’s giving scum fakeclaims that addresses the problem you bring up