Product Placement Mafia (Game over!)

[T-Bone]

I REQUEST AN OFFICIAL....

Okay, maybe not right this second.

[T-Bone]

Firebringer with the early fakeclaim. NIIIIIICE

[T-Bone]

The easiest way to my heart (and my town pile) is having a town read on me, yes. I'm glad we're on the same page.

[T-Bone]

(when everyone actually gets in here and posts at least once I'll prob

stop shitposting

do things in addition to shitposting)

What was the purpose of this post?

What is the purpose of this post?

[T-Bone]

(when everyone actually gets in here and posts at least once I'll prob

stop shitposting

do things in addition to shitposting)

What was the purpose of this post?

What is the purpose of this post?

Ok to be clear. Why do we need to know that you will produce actual content when everyone has posted? Simple answer is that we don't need to know that and you're overly self aware about your need to contribute something real.

You fail. FoS.

What is the purpose of

this

post??

[T-Bone]

Well, you DID just bitch me out for something Gamma did, said I failed, and did the ol' hilarious "FOS" thing.

So seriously. You tell me.

[T-Bone]

I would also like to unsubscribe, these latest posts have been terrible and completely missed the forest and the trees. 0/10 would not recommend.

[T-Bone]

Are you guys just PLing me for being a VI or do you care to add reasons?

I like wagons. You refused to join mine on brass and used a yucky FoS instead, so I'm joining yours. You have like 3 or 4 votes...why care so much?

Because I can't assess votes I don't get reasons for.

VOTE: northsidegal

[T-Bone]

Be less sensitive on page 6. It'll do you wonders.

[T-Bone]

Let's get some facts straight here. I was trying to start a meme, for the record, since it would have given the game as much meaning as the question you asked GooeyGamma (someone else was supposed to quote me and ask what the post means). Then you quoted me and freaked out.

Then you also made a statement about how you can't assess votes people don't give a reason for. So I quoted that post and voted for a random player.

I don't like it when people post things for the sake of posting. That was like, your entire ISO up to that point. It isn't about you being new, or the fact that I have a green name so I somehow think I am superior to all you plebs (this isn't Team Mafia, after all). It is about content that I perceive to be empty, and thus, I'm going to mock it every single time.

Maybe you did it because you are insecure about your own abilities as a player. Maybe you did it because you are scum and you feel like "this is what town-me should do." I don't know.

At no point did I ever make a judgment about your alignment (or anyone else's for that matter). At no point have I suggested we lynch you.

Be the player you want to be, if you're town I want you to be your best.

At the same time, I think you should have the awareness to let other players be who they are at the moment. Let the game come naturally. Don't be that guy who has to react to everything as some sort of slight against them.

[T-Bone]

Only in Team Mafia though. As you are all well aware, I am the great Team Mafia player in all of history.

[T-Bone]

You will be lynched for your insolence.

[T-Bone]

Definitely not.

[T-Bone]

Because, either I can say

Maybe you did it because you are insecure about your own abilities as a player. Maybe you did it because you are scum and you feel like "this is what town-me should do."

But voicing the obvious and using it to make a read is the kind of empty thinking that doesn't really help as town. You know, the type of thing I mocked you for. Yeah, it's fucking obvious that you could be town or scum. Just like every other player in the game.

(and I'm not criticizing your playstyle so much as I am voicing my thoughts and explaining why I do the things I do)

[T-Bone]

Did you (Cheeky) just drop a buzzword to describe something I said, because

you

(Cheeky) lost the context of the conversation? A conversation which the context was super clear and easy to follow. Really?

[T-Bone]

Gooey pitch to me why outing crumbs makes sense as a play from scum?

Penguin, what the hell are you allowing to be taught in the newbie queue that this question STILL gets asked in 2018?

SIGH

The answer to ALL questions that ask "why would scum...?" is ALWAYS to make someone ask "why would scum...?"

This is a public service announcement, funded by PepsiCo.

Wut? O_o'

Is waffling the buzzword? And I'm cereal about not getting what it is you're getting at. >.<

Hey whilst you're here. What do you make of xRECKONERx determining to vote you EOD? I find it "interesting" that you haven't even flinched or shown curiosity as to why that may be.

If you're legit confused that's fine. Here is the sequence of events. You did some things which I had commented on quite a few times. I then said, "at no point did I ever make a judgment about your alignment". You said, "Why not". And I said "Maybe you did it because you are insecure about your own abilities as a player. Maybe you did it because you are scum and you feel like "this is what town-me should do."" And then I explained that since voice that "you could be scum or town" amounts to empty content, it is not worth exploring...because everyone can be scum or town. And if I'm going to criticize players for empty content either now or in the future, I can't do it myself...because it isn't helpful for me or anyone else to find scum. Does that make sense?

As for Reck, he can do what he wants, it isn't my job to worry about whether someone is going to vote for me or not. It is my job to determine people's alignment and find scum. The statement by itself doesn't move the needle for his alignment to me, so I didn't react to it.

I don't feel that I (or any player, especially if they are also town) need to react to every single thing. It is okay to let other people play the game too.

(please keep in mind I am still not accusing you of anything, I am explaining my thought processes)

[T-Bone]

I've literally accused you of none of those things.

[T-Bone]

I've literally accused you of none of those things.

...Am I the only one seeing these things? Noone else can see it?

I'm explaining my thought processes and why I do things...but you can do what you want. I assume you have some level of autonomy.

@T-Bone – why are you like only talking about or to Cheeky?

Yeah but I'm voting for you <3

What would you like to talk about?

[T-Bone]

So...you didn't want to talk to me...while criticizing me for only talking to Cheeky. Why is the burden on me to open a dialogue with people? Be the change you want to see.

As for WHY I am talking to her...it is because I am trying to determine her alignment, and I feel out of all the players so far, she has produced the most 'game relevant' content, and is as good a player to start with as any. Do you feel anyone else has produced more than a post's worth of game relevant content? Because I don't. I feel most players are just floating along, or throwing stuff at a wall to see if anything sticks.

I voted for you because I quoted a post of hers where she said essentially she didn't like votes without an explanation...to which I then voted you without explanation. I picked you randomly (and in fact, you hadn't even checked in). As for why I haven't moved the vote...it isn't harming anyone. Unless you feel pressured by it? In which case I guess it is pulling some unintended utility.

[T-Bone]

Also, when I started engaging with Cheeky I was trying to start a bit where multiple people quote a post adding the question "what is the purpose of this post?" over and over again, but Cheeky immediately responded unfavorably and now here we are, talking about why I was only talking to her.

[T-Bone]

You've effectively made my point, by the way. Thank you.

[T-Bone]

Do you feel anyone else has produced more than a post's worth of game relevant content?

Because I don't.

eh, i'm bored and gamma's iso is short, going to do a mathdino-style full iso "lolcase"

nothing game related

totally NAI.

NAI,

still nothing game related

I don't think that's a scumtell in its own right but i don't see why gamma wouldn't just come out and say it or actually just use it to form a read on penguin and mention the tell.

nothing

probably not a sound conclusion but this is a lolcase so -shrug-

don't really like these votes

yeah i don't really feel like continuing this

but you get the gist, not really seeing any sorting or effort at sorting there

Ummm...

2 Yes, i do disagree, hence my votes.

I know I'm deleting a lot of the post, but yes you make my point that not a lot of game relevant content has happened...but pointing it all out in your lolcase on Gamma.

Yes, I do appreciate that you are throwing stuff at a wall and seeing if it sticks. That is totally fine and I wouldn't usually criticize something like that at this stage of the game. I don't get why you don't appreciate that I would want to spend time on something I feel is productive instead (which is sorting a player who has a lot of serious content)?

By the standard you are trying to impose, would it be fair to point out that my attempt to sort Cheeky is productive for the town (specifically for me)...but your 'lolcase' on Gamma is complete nonsense...by virtue of you handwaving everything you say with "but this is an lolcase"? I think it would be very fair for me to say that I'm doing something productive, and you aren't in these examples.

If you think it is scummy, so be it. But when you say "it is not a debate, I'm just noting a scumtell". Seems like you're inviting a debate to me, and one I am happy to have. Especially if you want to question something you find scummy...while simultaneously doing something scummy AND pointless.

is this your normal philosophy when it comes to voting? just checking.

Totally
Completely
and
Unequivocally

[T-Bone]

Firebringer for $200

[T-Bone]

Wait, I just want $200. Send it to my paypal.

[T-Bone]

Not saying you did anything scummy. I am having a conversation with you. (you know, the thing I do to try and sort people's alignment)

[T-Bone]

I was trying to compare what I felt you were doing from your point of view. Yeah that reads awkward.

[T-Bone]

Vax, have you considered that someone can make a post, and it not be motivated by, or otherwise indicate their alignment?

Have you considered that players can make more than 1 post like this? More than 2? Most of their ISO?

Honestly, mutant has done really only one thing that I would honestly look at and think "what is he trying to accomplish? Is he doing this because he's scum?" And it is far and away not the "i feel like it" comment.

[T-Bone]

Alright Vax, I do disagree. I don't think he's done anything to really indicate his alignment. The only thing I might consider is the post where he reacts to Cheeky for pointing out the non-crumbs...but even then I feel that is a stretch.

For reference, I also think players as a whole, do very few things that betray them as scum.

[T-Bone]

As a counter point, we have to lynch SOMEONE. You think it's a better plan to lynch waht then?

Do you want people to discuss their thoughts and reads with you, or do you just want people to sheep you? I'm all for the former, not for the latter.

Like seriously, please don't give me the "we have to lynch someone" bit. What does this accomplish? Do you think I or anyone else doesn't know the score?

As a counter counter point, we don't have to lynch anyone. We can no lynch until the end of time. Or until UT gives up.

[T-Bone]

[quote="In post 438]

I quoted your original post for reference. When I read the line "For reference, I also think players as a whole, do very few things that betray them as scum." I was like: Shit.
And all of my failures came flashing back to me. THen I started 2nd guessing my reads thus far.

I read it as, we are all just randomly voting for people, perhaps we will get lucky.

So I guess I got a little snarky and posted that, when I probably should have said something like: If people don't betray themselves as scum, then who do we vote for?

It's okay. What I mean is that people that are scum aren't screaming that they are scum in every post. I think this is a sort of pitfall people do to themselves. The have a scumread on someone, and from that point on they think that literally everything they say is scum. They do an ISO dive and see things in every post that confirms them as scum.

And we're probably all guilty of this. I know I can be, especially if I'm locked in on someone. So my comment is not about "let's lynch randomly" it's about "not every post matters." Some posts do, but not every post.

I'm not trying to persuade you that mutant is town. I don't know that he is, and I don't have a strong feeling either way. I'm saying that of all his posts, I think so far almost none of them have to do with his alignment at the moment. And of the one post that might, I could see it as either way.

I'm on the same side as Town!Vax so don't take things that I say as an attack. You wanted discussion and I tried to give it to you.

[T-Bone]

Let's all wagon AA9 before she prod dodges again.

I endorse this service and or product.

[T-Bone]

Are you guys just PLing me for being a VI or do you care to add reasons?

I like wagons. You refused to join mine on brass and used a yucky FoS instead, so I'm joining yours. You have like 3 or 4 votes...why care so much?

Because I can't assess votes I don't get reasons for. Why are you shading so much?

VOTE: Tbone

[T-Bone]

Are you guys just PLing me for being a VI or do you care to add reasons?

I like wagons. You refused to join mine on brass and used a yucky FoS instead, so I'm joining yours. You have like 3 or 4 votes...why care so much?

Because I can't assess votes I don't get reasons for. Why are you shading so much?

VOTE: Pine

[T-Bone]

But it is hilarious.

[T-Bone]

Go away bonehead.

I mean...the irony is stark. Why is he a bonehead?

What is the purpose of this question?

What is the purpose of this question?

[T-Bone]

O_o

Naked votes are fine. Just not on me I make them myself but never do so without reason (in my head) or expecting to get asked to share my reason.

Is your reason T is a bonehead?

Yes. Am I making the votes on myself? No. Then they probably fall into the "naked votes are fine" section of my comment right?

Tbone is trolling me and I find it weird that he's pointing out a contradiction when I vote him. Instead of turning the suspicion back onto me or discrediting me, he could have had literally any other reaction including none.

For real though, why would I want to discredit you? How does that help me determine your alignment? Or help me scumhunt? It is a pretty unhelpful tactic at best, and pro-scum tactic at worst.

Also, why should I turn the suspicion back on you? Should I be suspicious of you? (more than I would be of the average player of unknown alignment that is)

I'm going to let you in on two secrets though.

Spoiler: SECRETS! FOR CHEEKYTEEKY ONLY

1) the fun is always worth the post, and I will drop everything to have some fun (jokes, trolling, whatever).

2) At this point, I think you're probably town. O.O

[T-Bone]

If you click on that spoiler and you are not CheekyTeeky, I will lynch you.

[T-Bone]

Okay, you called my bluff.

[T-Bone]

I'd like to see it.

[T-Bone]

vote: hyung

[T-Bone]

vote: hyung

nope

Well, won't you look at that! I just did!

And it counts!

Do you need another vote count to see?

[T-Bone]

SNIP

Wow, so I hate this type of bullshit. A) It took me like 2 minutes to delete all of it so I could write the word SNIP so we wouldn't have to read it again.

More importantly, what is the purpose of this post? I'm not asking to meme either.

It would be one thing if northsidegal actually followed up on this...made some inferences on this...or commented on it in any meaningful way. Nope, that didn't happen.

Busy work = scum work is the point I'm getting across. This to me, more than anything, looks like someone trying to emulate what town!them would do. This is the kinda stuff I expect out of mastina when she draws scum.

Sorry for my lousy gameplay town.

So who are we lynching today?

his is the second time arc's completely ignored trying to play the game and just asked people who to lynch instead and she's a bad enough player that I honestly think she'd do this as either alignment so let's just make her fucking dead soon

Aaa... How does this is going to help the town?

Aren't you rather hunt for scum then picking on other stuff?

Vote: ArcAngel9

I hope this answers your question.

This feels like scumReck

Which means it's probably TownReck

This feels like scumFire

Which means it's probably TownFire

Boys, get along.

This I hate. It seems more like an easy space to occupy than a genuine read.



@Cheeky, are you one of those players who is purposely scummy to help their scum games?

@Cheeky-how about answer my question first instead of dodging around it for no good reason and then I can probably do that

How bout no.

In a vacuum, this post is enough to see your scum flip. There is no reason someone with a town Role PM should want to spend ANY amount of time being as unhelpful as they possibly can be. What if this is town!Gamma asking you a question? Why are you setting out to mess with his read if he's on the same side as town!Cheeky? Don't tell me it is because you think he's scum...because if that's the case than answering his question honestly doesn't have any consequences...except help scum!Gamma secure your lynch.

Cheeky has instances of showing thought processes that are explicitly anti-town. Maybe I'm overthinking it and Cheeky is actually scum. I've just dealt with too many players recently who try to be as scummy and as unhelpful as possible (see my team mafia game) that it is obviously something that some players do. Am I overcorrecting in the other direction by not challenging this bullshit more?

[T-Bone]

easy space to occupy

[T-Bone]

Cheeky has instances of showing thought processes that are explicitly anti-town. Maybe I'm overthinking it and Cheeky is actually scum. I've just dealt with too many players recently who try to be as scummy and as unhelpful as possible (see my team mafia game) that it is obviously something that some players do. Am I overcorrecting in the other direction by not challenging this bullshit more?

Cheeky's looked a lot more sane in her past games from a quick iso check in a few of them - there's maybe an argument to be made that the particular situation of this game could cause it as town or scum but it's def. not an overall playstyle thing imo.

Also from her one game I skimmed where she was scum the emoji/O_O -_-' O_O scumtell seems like it could be a thing with her but I think her overall play here is a better thing to go on.

Yeah but meta is the greatest pro-scum tool that has ever been invented, so I'm not really interested in playstyle from game to game. My question, and my deliberation is related to this game...and how far I should overcorrect if a player is doing things that I find scummy (but things I've recently found to not hold up so well).

[T-Bone]

EBWOP: And this deliberation is also about me being transparent in my thought processes rather than looking for an immediate answer. There may not be a satisfying answer, and the calculation of lynching scum!Cheeky or preserving town!Cheeky needs to be made. If that makes sense?

(and maybe to triple post and annoy reck somehow)

[T-Bone]

This I hate. It seems more like an easy space to occupy than a genuine read.

This is a great point. Why Arc over anyone else producing content?

This part you quoted was in reference to Pine??

SNIP

No, I actually thought you spent time collecting the votes manually lol.

I still would have liked to see some analysis right away, because again, I hate content that is easily faked.

This is the first time I've seen TBone give a stance on anyone this game (unless you want to count his hyung vote which mostly just felt opportunistic to me). While I'm unopposed to an AA9 lynch, there's nothing about his vote there that makes me feel good about him.

His sudden stance that NSG is scummy for posting VC's (really?) and Cheeky for not answering a simple question feel pretty superficial to me as well.

WOMP WOMP WOMP

If this is the "first time you've seen T-Bone give a stance all game" then you just aren't reading the game.

Which is SUPER weird, considering you have insinuated a few times already that you think I'm scum.

It is SUPER weird that you point out two things I did from my previous post...and completely misrepresent what they were. Now, since this is the "first time" you've read my posts, I can forgive you. Oh wait no...because while this is the first time you've read my posts, this isn't the first time you've declared some sort of read on me.

Do you know what we call that? SUPERFICIAL CONTENT!!! WOOOOO!!!

Does anyone else find that weird?

[T-Bone]

Maybe. It felt like a GOTTEM moment to me.

[T-Bone]

The simple answer is that I have to choose someone. I'm not trying to make any special distinction between people by voting here.

Do you think of all the low content posters there is anyone lower than ArcAngel?

And I would put my criticism of Pine in the same place I put mine of northsidegal. Content that is easily faked and lacks meaning beyond the surface. Do you think Line's response to my post is sufficient? Or something else?

[T-Bone]

So...Brian pulls out what looks to be my ISO to complain how I am not doing anything...to which the posts he pulled (minus the jokes) recap my contributions to the game. He literally quotes my posts and writes "T-Bone takes no stances" under posts of mine where I make pretty definitive statements.

I'm not going to break it down, because that is unhelpful. It is up to any of you if you think it has merit. As you will see below, I don't think it has merit as a real case.

However...it does have merit in itself...because it is basically a massive scumclaim masked as a post. This is the type of post that scum makes 100% of the time to "prove" a case on someone. People who are town do not have this mindset where they have to DIG to try and find things that are scummy.

There are obviously a couple of points. One, for the most part, people who are scum aren't literally going to drop alignment indicative stuff in every single post. I think most people have that understanding. I also think that if this were a real case from town!Brian, he'd recognize the distinction between posts that are NAI, and those that aren't. I think town!Brian would have a much shorter case, because he'd be genuinely seeing and reading me. I don't think town!Brian would pull my entire ISO to prove a case. I don't think town!anyone would do that on any player.

Two...I feel like scum!Brian did this because I had just admonished northsidegal for doing busywork...and when Brian tried to claim I was doing something else, Gamemereld also recognized what I was actually saying. I think Brian originally thought he could get some traction by commenting that I was accusing northsidegal of being scum for posting a vote count...and when that didn't work, he had to make #942 to give himself cover. But this goes back to my first point...the difference between town!Brian and scum!Brian posting a case like this is that scum!Brian is going to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks...because he can't actually scumhunt.

Three...the substance of the case doesn't even make sense. It looks like to me he is hoping that if he says something that is untrue enough (via quoting a post of mine and going "look at this nothingness") that people will gloss over and think it is true. This is of course, a technique that TOWN WOULD NOT USE. Why would town!Brian say blatantly false things to make his case?

Four...some of this stuff he is quoting happened awhile a go. If this is his real point of view, why not take issue with some of these things when they happened? Why not take issue with post #42 when it happened? Heck, why, if this is a real case, quote it at all? If someone were to think I am scum, I highly doubt they would take posts like #42 and go "yep look at how scummy T-Bone is". No, someone with a real scumread on me would ignore those posts and only take issue with the ones that matter.

Now...I say all these with a caveat. It looks pretty obvious from my point of view, because I know I'm town, and I know what I am and am not doing in this game. So given what I said above...who thinks I got it right? Does anyone think I don't have this right and we shouldn't lynch Brian over this?

[T-Bone]

tbone i physically can't read your wall right meow staring at it is giving me a headache

do your own waffling for a bit instead of outsourcing it and i'll come back and try to read it again later

Do you even know what waffling is? I don't think you do.

My post wasn't even that long, so don't even try to pull that crap.

[T-Bone]

Yeah seriously. I'm accusing Brian of building a scum case and even he isn't taking the low hanging fruit despite being given an excuse to do so.

Preedit: I am currently voting hyung, Cheeky(haven't switched yet)...so at the very least you could entertain my questions about Brian. I post things like that for the benefit of the town and the benefit of my own read, so it would be nice to have some feedback.

(and no Brian, I am not ignoring your feedback, I saw it)

[T-Bone]

Yeah seriously. I'm accusing Brian of building a scum case and even he isn't taking the low hanging fruit despite being given an excuse to do so.

Preedit: I am currently voting hyung, Cheeky(haven't switched yet)...so at the very least you could entertain my questions about Brian. I post things like that for the benefit of the town and the benefit of my own read, so it would be nice to have some feedback.

(and no Brian, I am not ignoring your feedback, I saw it)

I'm letting you two play out. I'll give my thoughts when it's clear you two are done.

We're done. Notice the lack of arguing.

I didn't say anything.

I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO FEEL LEFT OUT SHEESH

[T-Bone]

It is hard to gauge her in full, because she had this v/la, and her activity has come and gone otherwise, and no one has sustained interactions with her. I also find her timing to be super odd (like when Gamemerald called her scum for something and she magically appear 5 minutes later despite being on v/la) I think people sorting her as town when she hasn't done much kinda supports my criticism of her doing busywork. It looks good, it looks productive, but it actually isn't. I'm in the lean scum territory.

I don't think you were really directing it at me...but I gave my thoughts on Cheeky a few pages ago, and they haven't largely changed. (and other than GooeyGamma no one even said anything to me about it)

And Cheeky...me not addressing Brian's wall isn't about being unwilling to go point by point and show where he is faulty...that isn't productive, and I try very hard not to get in a point by point back and forth with people (because then ultimately I am either playing into scum!player's hand or getting away from what town!player wanted to say in the first place). The specifics of Brian's post is for ya'll to decide on, not me.

And I think delivery is WAY more important than content when it comes to discovering someone's alignment. Again, this goes back to a fundamental of scumplay...and that is doing things that look busy. I think breaking down an entire ISO isn't even helpful from a town perspective (because now you are looking for things to confirm your bias)...but it is super helpful from a scum perspective, and thus, how I chose to see it. And then I asked what everyone else thought...because maybe I am biased myself because the case is on me, and I know it is 100% wrong. I don't want to tunnel Brian because of that (and also I don't want to tunnel if I'm wrong), which is why I immediately asked for people to either agree or disagree with my assessment. Which is why I ask for feedback when I make substantial statements, because I'm trying to have perspective, and trying to be very clear about my thought process so everyone knows where I stand.

[T-Bone]

Bah all those prededits. The first two paragraphs were in response to Brian's 982, the other two in response to Cheeky's 983

[T-Bone]

Bah all those prededits. The first two paragraphs were in response to Brian's 982, the other two in response to Cheeky's 983

Ok I'm following your thought process on Brian. Sidenote, I thought your vote was on AA9 not Hyung? Did I miss it?

I meant to say I was voting for him.

[T-Bone]

Anyway Vax you can slow your role on ArcAngel because multiple are or are willing to vote her...and Cheeky still has a sizable wagon, so I don't get why you are throwing a fit right now when by all rights you are getting what you want.

I probably speak for most people when I say we are capable of multitasking. Hence why we are discussing other reads.

[T-Bone]

Brian and me, for starters. Then there is you, northsidegal, Pine...etc

[T-Bone]

Brian and me, for starters. Then there is you, northsidegal, Pine...etc

I love this by the way. It gives you town cred for asking me reads on specific people who are controversial.

Not really...anyone could have asked this.

tbone i physically can't read your wall right meow staring at it is giving me a headache

do your own waffling for a bit instead of outsourcing it and i'll come back and try to read it again later

Do you even know what waffling is? I don't think you do.

My post wasn't even that long, so don't even try to pull that crap.

i saw the 'does anyone really think brian etc etc' at the end and with your earlier anti-town vs realscumz rant earlier i assumed it was more of the same

and no, really, tbf i had 3 whooole beers over the course of the day but it takes up my entire laptop screen and trying to read it gave me a headache.

I'm not ranting...I'm explaining what I think is scum and why I think that way. My goal is to lynch scum, so I don't see the issue with DISCUSSING READS. Would it be better for you if I made special GooeyGamma posts where I explain nothing instead? I can make that happen, just say the word.

[T-Bone]

GooeyGamma, I'm gonna write a lot, and not make special posts for you like I promised. Sorry.

Okay let's talk about T-Bone.
26 is a wolf post

So, when I initially saw Alisae's post...I stopped reading after this. This is the THIRD player to quote something that is obviously a joke (northsidegal on Gamma, Brian on T-Bone) and put it in a post as a reason for scumreading someone. This is manipulative as shit...because if it isn't pertinent to your case, why quote it?

And then I had an emergency and haven't been around, so it has been festering.

So the central question that needs to be answered for me, is whether Alisae believes this case (because E is town) or whether this is a nonsense ISO dive (because E is scum).

And this is an odd thing for me. Because I just got done accusing Brian of a busywork ISO dive...and then Alisae seemingly posts one emself. Northsidegal did one much early in the day on Gamma (the so called lolcase)...so it is extremely odd that three different players would do the same. There are differences between the three, but it is still really weird for me to see them like this. Maybe these three players are the type to do this all the time.

I think I discussed northsidegal's already...and she hand waves it as an lolcase on Gamemerald anyway. I think it looks like busywork, and I felt that her lack of analysis immediately after posting her vote count stuff made that busywork as well. (in case we are still unclear, Alisae/Brian!)

I've considered Brian's post. One of the things I said about it is that "I don't think town!Brian would make this post". He produced examples of games in which he did. I clicked on them. Unless I am mistaken, all of them occurred after day 1. Which I think is significant. It makes me think he produced the ISO dive in this game because that's what town!Brian would do...rather than because it is what he wanted to do. I'll come back here.

So Alisae comes and does something similar, and I am back and forth on it in a vacuum. Er point about my stance on northsidegal is the same bullshit Brian tried to peddle. The bit about the spoiler tag where I tell Cheeky I think she is town is another bit of bullshit that Brian also tried to peddle. It is these kinds of things that I think are fake. Most players understood what I was calling northsidegal out for, and even if they didn't...by the point that Alisae read my entire ISO, that point was cleared up, so why does E still make an incorrect point about it? The spoiler tag thing is so innocuous, I don't even know why E is parroting this bullshit point? It is like E looked at Brian's case and decided E was going to highlight things that only scum would highlight, because those things are nonsense.

Which is crazy,

because without those three things (including the quote above) I would probably believe right away that Alisae is actually scumhunting!

Why does she pepper her case with things that are obviously the types of things scum would hang a case on because they are nonsense?

As I caught up, things got progressively bleaker. At the end of her first case against me, she asks me some questions about my reads. Which I might lean towards "okay, town!Alisae believes this." But as I continued to read E completely lost the plot. E asks a few people what she thinks of me...which is consistent with a player who believes their read. But then, a switch flips and E is suddenly tunneling me. Huh? This is a crazy type of scum deevolution. Almost immediately after posting er case, E abandons all notions of forming reads on anyone else. It becomes a cacophony of "let's lynch T-Bone why haven't we lynched T-Bone yet?"

Mind you I haven't even posted before now! While the other players who profess a scumread or a scumlean on me were willing to wait, Alisae suddenly lost it!

So the tl;dr

questions that need to be answered for me, as I now have a group of three players who have done some scummy things.

Why, if this is town!Alisae making a genuine read, would she pad her case with obvious bullshit points? Why, if this is town!Alisae, does she abandon the notion of discussing her read in favor of chanting for a flashwagon? Why, if this is town!Alisae, stop considering anyone else as soon as she posts a case on T-Bone?

Is Brian's ISO dive real, or is he parroting what he thinks his town meta is? (considering the ISO dives he linked to me occur after day 1)

I don't have any additional questions specifically about northsidegal, as she hasn't done anything new or unresolved in my opinion.

(and these tl;dr questions are for everyone else, not for who they are about)

Gaemerald, I have separate questions for you, and they also pertain partly to northsidegal, but I'll make another post at some point.

Spoiler: OOC

I'm finishing out the day phase and replacing out due to personal circumstances.

[T-Bone]

At least one or two of those games I linked you were on Day 1.

I just took a quick look, so I could have been mistaken. But my immediate thought was "wait, none of these are on day 1, is Brian doing this because he thinks/knows this is what Brian does when he is town?"

T-Bone first off, can you respond to those questions
Second off, tbh what you’re kinda descrbing with the switch flipping is kinda just aggressiveness and how I approach the game :/

I mean, you didn't seem that interested since you weren't willing to wait...and also I have peppered in reads here and there in my posts and you ISOed me so...

I lean town on people like Cheeky, Gamerald, and Vax. Cheeky I've explained, Gamerald I lean because he says things I agree with, and gut on Vax.

Most players occupy the middle. Generally if I don't personally interact with people this is how they end up. People like hyung and arcangel kinda occupy this space because their contributions have been bleh...but they are both on the lean scum side of the middle for the few things they have done.

Leaning scum on the likes of Brian and northsidegal.

Haven't really decided what I think of you since I haven't interacted with you yet. Currently you sit in the middle, but I expect that to change one way or another very soon.

So, when I initially saw Alisae's post...I stopped reading after this. This is the THIRD player to quote something that is obviously a joke (northsidegal on Gamma, Brian on T-Bone) and put it in a post as a reason for scumreading someone. This is manipulative as shit...because if it isn't pertinent to your case, why quote it?

Also this is manipulative as shit and actually misrepresentation considering I striked it meaning I didn’t believe in it. Meaning it wasn’t a reason I was scumreading you.

No, what YOU posted was manipulative as shit...because if you really didn't believe it, you didn't have a good reason to post it if you were making a serious case. You may have striked it but you STILL posted it!

[T-Bone]

That's fair Brian. That's also why I asked for feedback from other people. I know I am town, and as a result anyone who reads me as scum is 100% wrong. So the difficulty for me is deciding where that is coming from, and how to rationalize it.

The second reason I ask for feedback is because I am also considering the possibility that I am the problem. It is one thing for me to rationalize someone like you as faking their read on me, but if no one else sees it, then I am the problem, and I am the one attracting the negative attention in the first place.

Alisae, you do you. If you think are town!Alisae and you think I am scum, then it is your job to convince everyone else. I already know that I'm not, and thus I am scrutinizing you from the point that I know that I am town. (you're not going to convince me I'm scum, for example!)

[T-Bone]

That is an aspect of site-culture that I as a player, would like to see die a horrible death.

Thank you for carrying my spirit to a win. I didn't follow the game closely, but I did check every so often to see if you were still in.

[T-Bone]

Congrats scumteam. Nice try town.

Super disappointed T-Bone replaced out when he got pressured.

LLD earned this win though. I'm not sure I would have figured her out if I had stayed.

Getting pressured had nothing to do with it, so I'd recommend you level your accusations more wisely in the future.