Planned Changes: Newbie Game Deadlines

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Post Post #24 (isolation #0) » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:17 am

Post by T-Bone »

Please keep in mind that this change is informed by feedback Penguin has been collecting for a long time, and the major complaint he gets from newbies is 'deadlines are too long'. If newbies think that deadlines are too long, and are not sticking around as a result...then who exactly are we catering to as a site?

We are not imposing this limit in other queues. Yes, it is likely that deadline averages will drop as a result. But, it does not prevent moderators from setting deadlines they prefer in other queues. There may even be solutions we can implement in other queues to preserve the longer deadline average the site currently has.
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Post Post #34 (isolation #1) » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:54 am

Post by T-Bone »

That goal doesn't matter if newbies are leaving because they don't like the length of games.

You're making the argument that 14->7 is too drastic a change.

Have you considered it from the opposite angle?

Newbies are coming from sites that at most, have 3 day deadlines. I'd say 3->14 is a much more drastic change than 3->7 Once someone is playing at 7 days, then we can probably gradually bring them up outside of the newbie queue to where we as a site want them (10-14). But making that jump from 3 to 14 or even 10 is daunting.
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Post Post #48 (isolation #2) » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:22 am

Post by T-Bone »

In post 39, MichelSableheart wrote: [*]The strength of mafiascum, as I see it, is it's ability to cater to players who don't have the time available to post multiple times per day. Our expectations have been that an active player makes at least one post a day. If we set a one week deadline, that means that a player who meets those expectations will post 7 times during a single day. Is that enough to play the game?[/list]
In post 44, mastina wrote:
In post 24, T-Bone wrote:If newbies think that deadlines are too long, and are not sticking around as a result...then who exactly are we catering to as a site?
In general, older individuals, who
do
stick around.

mafiascum is, to my knowledge, the only site which caters to the crowd of individuals with those particular habits: having real-life obligations such as full-time jobs, families to look after, finances to take care of, etc.; not being able to read too much content in a limited timeframe. (I know that, personally, I have an endurance limit of 20 pages/24 hours. If a game produces more than that amount, I simply can't keep up with it and my performance suffers as a result.)
You...have played mafia on this site recently right? (I know mastina has)

Like, these comments hearken back to 2008, not 2018. Our games are MASSIVE now. People post and post and post and post. If you are a player who can only post once a day, then our games aren't for you, not with 3 week deadlines, not with 3 day deadlines.

The idea that shortening deadlines are going to make games unplayable for people who want slower experiences is ludicrous...because games are unplayable for those players in the current meta!

My Newbie game was 17 pages long. Now, 17 pages are the average first 24 hours of a game. Our game right now is dominated by players who are able to post 24/7 and need to react to everything! It is those types of players we need to prepare newbies for...not the type of players who like to take 2 weeks to analyze a game. Only one of those players exists on site.

THIS is what the average game on this site looks like. 4 or 5 players who quickly have twice as many posts as the rest of the players in the game. THAT is what we need to prepare newbies for. Not some fantasy world where we are all adults who barely post and need longer deadlines to produce posts. Michel, your example player can't play here with 2 month deadlines. That is what mafiascum is now.
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Post Post #71 (isolation #3) » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:31 am

Post by T-Bone »

Play more so we can cater to your tastes.
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Post Post #82 (isolation #4) » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:12 pm

Post by T-Bone »

Modkills would be way more punitive to the remaining players than a replacement.
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Post Post #87 (isolation #5) » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:45 pm

Post by T-Bone »

In post 85, ruru wrote:Well yes

I think if you commit to playing a team game and don't play, you deserve high loss equity, you deserve to get flamed by the remaining players, and if you do it a non-negligible portion of the time you should also not be allowed in future games

I think this comes from a difference in "competitive"/"for fun" mindset. My mindset is highly competitive and like I said I don't expect most people to agree with me on it. (Also modkilling AFKs probably isn't practical in newbie queue in particular because of how many newbies flake and I realize that too)

But I think the rest of my post still applies anyway because replacements are pretty objectively bad whether or not modkills are subjectively better
I promise you, players who are flaking are unaffected by silly things like "high loss equity". You don't flake on a game because you care about it. The flaking player will harbor no bad feelings. The rest of the players will suffer for something beyond their control.

This is a non-starter. Modkills are not used on mafiascum except in extreme circumstances. Replacements do not qualify as an extreme circumstance.
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Post Post #90 (isolation #6) » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:55 pm

Post by T-Bone »

But I'd like you to understand the consequences so when you start moderating your own games, you won't ruin everyone's experiences by refusing to replace inactive players.
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Post Post #132 (isolation #7) » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:24 pm

Post by T-Bone »

On a side note, the coding team is working to make the site more mobile friendly...so we don't need to derail this topic talking about that.
My Top 40 Alt Songs of the Year!

"Playing in a Newbie game doesn't count" ~ PenguinPower, Feb 2019
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