Gerrymandering Shadow Government Democracy Mafia Endgame

[mutantdevle]

The case against hebi has only been growing though
like her double voting isn't the only reason why I'm scumreading her
It's the double vote + bad reason for double vote + voting for two different people + letting edos get lynched (and in fact, pushing for edos to get lynched because she, in all her hypocrisy, wanted to out the double voter)

May I just add that scum!Hebi would want president town!the worst dead since he so strongly considered him for the lynch over Edosurist.

[mutantdevle]

I townread about everyone In my party

The worst is town
Aronis is town
Ruby is town? Who’s in Ruby’s party?

What are people’s read on me

I town read you. Although you don't list me here, I thought we were mutual on that.

The worst and Ausuka are town mechanically.

I agree on Aronis being town too. I can see a bit of myself in them.

Not so sure about Ruby though.

[mutantdevle]

Uhhh. So can we like do the lie detector thing. It doesn't count as a lie if the person doesn't know it's a lie so we're gonna have to stick with clearing people running for president/not in a party.

I'd much rather you use it on Ruby if I'm honest. They're more popular president wise than I am so I think that's a much better use of your ability.

I also want Ruby to check into the thread as well. They've kinda disappeared.

[skitter30]

I think we should use the lie detector ability slightly differently. In particular, we shouldn't use it on posts with one person but rather two or three people.

For instance: "123456789 and Mutantdevle are aligned with the town." Then, when you get the lie detector result, if you get truth, you know both people are town. Otherwise, town is guaranteed at least one scum out of the two.

+1 if ausuka can do this

--

I hereby have two things to proceed to pucker up into a monumental megaphone and claim to the clammy, sweaty seated awaiting audience ...
Engage.

Two things are--> I postal voted for Fighting Dreamers. Then I election day voted for Fighting Dreamers.

yes, i figured.

duckling, i'm kinda weirded out that the postal fraud votes were for you. could scum have wanted you to get the presidency yesterday?

--

Are you saying Aronis is mafia and planned to kill you off so he could form his own party in the ashes?

Because if you are, I'm going to have to strongly disagree.

yeah, the districts don't really seem to have been made with the intent of giving him the presidency; i'm not even sure he can win his own (me/aronis/hebi/mylo)

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pre-ninja: I did not agree with the logic of double voting equals a problem and therefore Edosurist equals a convenient person who gets to be dumped into a lynch pool and then gets lynched because the mob (who I wasn't a part of) said to lynch him and kill scum, at best, or at the least find the dratted double voter. What a crummy plan. Someone in this thread said about double voting that "it's a scum claim." Who was it that dared write that, again?

i mean this opinion regarding double-voting would have been met with much less suspicion if you had shared it when double-voting was pronounced to be a scumclaim way back when

why'd you fraud? like you're going on about why having done so should be taken as a proof of guilt, but i still don't get why you did it in the first place

Oh, and don't even talk about "policy lynches" in the same breath of saying that an innocent townie was lynched. The policy lynch of me would kill an innocent townie.

this feels kinda survivalistic to me

His lynch was a left turn. The great reason that I voted for Fighting Dreamers was that I somehow thought they would ultimately make their own independent call on who was scum.

Bending to the popular voice was a betrayal to what I expected

.

eh this feels kinda townie tho.

--

Either you or Hebichan claiming your double vote would certainly have been Edosurist's salvation

. Your claims back up Edosurist's own that they didn't vote. It's just a shame they weren't around to reinforce the idea that they didn't vote when suspicion first arose. By claiming a double vote, we likely would have killed you instead of him. What's the difference between lynching a town!Edosurist and a town!either of you? Answer: Both of you deserved to be lynched for your actions whereas Edosurist was innocent of everything we were holding against him.

not sure if the bolded is true; if one or the other had claimed the double vote, we would have had five claimed votes for six votes cast (one each by mylo/ruby/taz/hebi + the frauded vote) so we'd still be missing a vote so that doesn't entirely clear edo. but i agree that if one or the other had owned up to the double vote they would have likely been yesterday's lynch.

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I agree. He's a scummy town but town nonetheless. That said, I'm still more okay with a vig on him than anyone else. His reaction to all this strikes me as town since, although he is making excuses, he is not trying to present his excuses as pro town like Hebichan did. I just wish he was saying all this stuff yesterday when it mattered more.

this basically. i'm tending towards town because he just feels too clueless/out there/out of it to be scum (honestly if he was scum the double-vote + outing of the double vote woudl probably have not been handled so ... clumsily given daytalk) but like i don't want him anywhere near lylo

--

Uhhh. So can we like do the lie detector thing. It doesn't count as a lie if the person doesn't know it's a lie so we're gonna have to stick with clearing people running for president/not in a party.

I'd much rather you use it on Ruby if I'm honest. They're more popular president wise than I am so I think that's a much better use of your ability.

I also want Ruby to check into the thread as well. They've kinda disappeared.

atm i think you have more support than her tbh; most of her support seems to be residual from yesterday.

ruby has had sitewide inactivity recently so i don't think it's ai but like it would be useful to hear her thoughts on like everything

[Aronis]

Uhhh. So can we like do the lie detector thing. It doesn't count as a lie if the person doesn't know it's a lie so we're gonna have to stick with clearing people running for president/not in a party.

Do you want me to make some sort of post for it? Would that help? if so just let me know and I'll submit w/e you want

[123456789]

This is me making a post so I don't get prodded by accident.

I don't really have anything new to contribute atm other than I think the mod nerfed the Lie Detector ability way too much. It would be very hard to break the game with it even at full power.

[Aronis]

pre-ninja: I did not agree with the logic of double voting equals a problem and therefore Edosurist equals a convenient person who gets to be dumped into a lynch pool and then gets lynched because the mob (who I wasn't a part of) said to lynch him and kill scum, at best, or at the least find the dratted double voter. What a crummy plan. Someone in this thread said about double voting that "it's a scum claim." Who was it that dared write that, again?

However, I think we should, as minimum, impose the rule

Electoral fraud is a scum claim

.
Allowing electoral fraud to take place is strictly anti-town.

Oh, yes, it was this gem that I remembered. The minimum rule should be the rule that embroiled people like Edosurist and me?!???!

It was agreed that double voting was a scum thing to do and we WOULD lynch people for it. You never expressed disagreement with it when it was discussed.

However, I think we should, as minimum, impose the rule Electoral fraud is a scum claim.

I'm fine with the no electoral fraud rule.

I agree with no electoral fraud.

town has no reason to postal vote in general

Postal voting is fine if you're V/LA, it's really the double voting that's an issue.

All 5 of these posts showed support for banning double votes.

Nobody

expressed any disagreement. It felt pretty agreed upon to me. Obviously, you didn't get the message.

There was disagreement though. You're just cherrypicking a specific post where there wasn't a negative response. He tried to force everyone to follow this rule and a bunch of others and people shut him down a few pages before this.

[123456789]

@Mutant --> Thanks for quoting Hebi; that gives us all the more reason to scumread them.

[mutantdevle]

atm i think you have more support than her tbh; most of her support seems to be residual from yesterday.

ruby has had sitewide inactivity recently so i don't think it's ai but like it would be useful to hear her thoughts on like everything

I highly doubt everyone in my party is going to vote for me. One of the points of being in my party is you can vote where you like without being obliged to any kind of party allegiance.

And yeah, I don't think Ruby's inactivity is ai. I just want them in the thread :P

[mutantdevle]

There was disagreement though. You're just cherrypicking a specific post where there wasn't a negative response. He tried to force everyone to follow this rule and a bunch of others and people shut him down a few pages before this.

That was opposition to his proposed

ruleset

which was more to do with the entire voting process rather than simple double voting.

The no double voting rule individually was agreed with numerous times, faced no opposition, and is inherently scummy anyway.

[mutantdevle]

@Mutant --> Thanks for quoting Hebi; that gives us all the more reason to scumread them.

Yeah. Honestly, the more you look at Hebichan's post the more you think "wait, so why DID you double vote?"

Either his reasons for double voting is BS or everything he said beforehand was BS. Either way, it's scummy.

[Ausuka]

Uhhh. So can we like do the lie detector thing. It doesn't count as a lie if the person doesn't know it's a lie so we're gonna have to stick with clearing people running for president/not in a party.

Do you want me to make some sort of post for it? Would that help? if so just let me know and I'll submit w/e you want

Just pm'ing the mod to make a presidential post saying "I, Aronis, am aligned with the town" would be great thanks

[Ausuka]

Even making the argument that not everyone technically agreed to the no doublevote rule, not admitting to what you did when Edosurist was incorrectly on the chopping block is worthy of a lynch imo. Like, town in that spot really should have just come out and said "Yeah, I doublevoted, I admit it, I felt like it was the best thing for my wincon and I didn't agree to not doing it" and took the personal loss of presidential ability because it was obvious that town as a collective was going after the doublevoters. The fact that they are only coming out now when it is obvious what they did is immensely suspicious to me.

[Aronis]

Uhhh. So can we like do the lie detector thing. It doesn't count as a lie if the person doesn't know it's a lie so we're gonna have to stick with clearing people running for president/not in a party.

Do you want me to make some sort of post for it? Would that help? if so just let me know and I'll submit w/e you want

Just pm'ing the mod to make a presidential post saying "I, Aronis, am aligned with the town" would be great thanks

okay I sent it in. you should see it soon

[mutantdevle]

Out of all the people in this game I'd want to essentially cop check I think Aronis would have to be pretty low on that list. Like, I get that he's hard to read for most people, but giving someone confirmed town status also gives them responsibility and I'd argue that would be wasted on Aronis. I'd much prefer it on someone who could use that power well such as Ruby Red.

Obviously it's your choice what you use your shots on Ausuka, but out of the current candidates my prefered order of who to check would be like this:

Ruby Red > Wheme > Myself > Aronis.

[Ausuka]

I mean I'm not locked into targeting Aronis tonight but the more options I have the better it is imo.

[Ausuka]

Ruby and Wheme doing the same thing as Aronis (substituting aronis' name for whoever you are) would be helpful and I'll listen to towny people's opinions on which person I should target.

[Wraith]

I hereby have two things to proceed to pucker up into a monumental megaphone and claim to the clammy, sweaty seated awaiting audience ...
Engage.

If either of you had spoken up about your double votes yesterday then we would have known there was 2 double votes sooner and Edosurist wouldn't have had to die. We are now in a situation where your actions have caused us to misslynch a townie and each of you are now heavily due policy lynches that could probably be spent better elsewhere

A couple of things. How many times was it said that the problem was if someone double voted at all?--It was said over and over again, and, so, it's kind of a waste of further breath to now insert that if there were actually MORE people who double voted then one of those people in particular (Edosurist, you say) would have been saved. All this stuff about double voting is bad, and it's a scum claim and stuff. And now turn it around and say if it WERE claimed it would have been Edosurist's salvation?
I did not mislynch a townie; you guys DID with your insistence that "oh no" someone double voted or did not vote or whatnot is a problem. No it's not. We don't all walk in lockstep. And the double voting thing was made such an issue and therefore Edosurist had to die was such a dumb move.
Oh, and don't even talk about "policy lynches" in the same breath of saying that an innocent townie was lynched. The policy lynch of me would kill an innocent townie. What is then the point of saying "policy lynch" anyway when the "policy lynch" of Edosurist happened? And the only ones who don't have responsibility for him dying is those who didn't support his lynch. Imagine that.
So what is it going to be--is there a soft insinuation that I deserve to die because I have the guilt of double voting? Wasn't that the very problem that was risen as a specter over Edosurist?|
And can we drop the lining up of lynches to find the double voter. At least we can end that now

Edosurist is enough proof that it embroiled the wrong people. And NO I did not double vote as a way to be consistent at defending myself from Edosurist and myself from future criticism. I am not a foreseer of the future. Edosurist's lynch was a left turn to me, and I think my posting day one made that clear.

Just to clarify the biggest reason I think Tazaro is scum, is because he's essentially making the argument here of, "I didn't doublevote yesterday, but if I did it wouldn't even be scummy. Also it's everyone else's fault because they supported the mislynch."

Similar to how hebichan is scum for doublevoting, lying about it, and then flailing today about how "actually it was a gambit for reactions"

[Wraith]

I've also been fairly convinced by the evidence that The Worst is conftown. I still do not trust his party, however.

[Wraith]

I also feel I must state that Hebi is absolutely a lynch priority over Tazaro.

[jjh927]

I, Aronis, am aligned with the town.

[ofrhz]

this would not have happened if we elected supreme leader ruby red

Does this mean you still support ruby for president

I’m not sure what ruby would have done differently as president considering she was also in support of an edos lynch.

[hebichan]

im just gonna full claim my fucking dumb role here.

Im a third party anarchist.
My goal is to be in two tied districts over the course of the game.

I get Joat powers unlocked after certain things.
1. if im caught for electoral fruading, I get a one shot protest, which means I can stop the lynch after its been chosen but before it resolves to stop the lynch and make the president resolve a new one.
2. I can choose to arrange the members of a single district one night. This is after I am in a single tied district. My choices supercede the mafia's and if it causes two or less people to be in another district, the mafia can reshuffle any other district to fit the constraints.
3. After there is a colotion lynch, I can choose to lock a single district for a night, mafia can not touch it.

that's why I wanted to find the other double voter so badly yesterday, if I can't trust town to vote normally, my role is nearly impossible.

[Tazaro]

Wait, you're claiming to actually be third party? But you are primarily against the mafia team?

[hebichan]

I'm as much against the mafia as I am town.

making districts tie up isn't really all that protown at all.

My powers all help me win by letting me make more contested districts -anti-town-
but also make life harder for the mafia -anti-mafia-