Minuet's Trio [Game Over]

[zMuffinMan]

Katsuki - Who doesn't like cupcakes?

*ahem*

V

O

T

E

:

C

U

P

C

A

K

E

100% serious and i am never changing this vote for as long as i live

"why?" you may ask...

because i've never shared the same alignment as cupcake in a fakegod game (except paradise lost... but that's the exception that PROVES the rule)

further, every time i've used the gambler's axiom in the past, i've always been correct. that means i'm correct this time, too

if i had to guess who's scum with him atm, i'd guess one person in {Purrcocet, Dunnstral, Brian Skies} and one person in {Human Sequencer, grapes, Kokichi Oma, Nosferatu} just because that's how i'd expect random distribution of alignment across the player list. it's unlikely that there's scum in {Nancy Drew 39, Wisdom} because they're directly above and below him in the player list respectively and that seems like a highly unlikely thing to happen when you randomise alignments

bus cupcake for town cred if you're scum and, with all this said, i'll see you guys D2

also, although you can't physically see it, i want you all to know that i have a microphone and that i have picked it up and dropped it. it would do wonders for my self-esteem if you could please visualise this happening and pretend it had a profound effect on you and that i looked really cool and awesome when it happened

[zMuffinMan]

Please be town this time.

if you believe it to be true, nothing is impossible. don't let my actual alignment get in the way of things

btw, i'm a novice reflexive fruit vendor

[zMuffinMan]

The grapes announcement isn't something that needs to be debated on nor should it be.

Kaede

light townread for post 8 and 9.

Human

can be town for 7, While the post itself is very bland stating obvious facts any mafia player should know I like the tone and approach that makes it feel towny to me.

thank you for including links btw. i didnt want to have to trawl through the thread to find the posts youre referencing. youre very conscientious for an andriod

[zMuffinMan]

brian's post looked serious to me

less serious than my first post though

[zMuffinMan]

if scum has posted so far, hebi

[zMuffinMan]

oh...

tbh didn't even check the setup, was assuming this was a standard alice game

still not happy with the disturbing lack of cupcake votes though

[zMuffinMan]

muffin, why is hebi potentially scummy

just seems less town than everyone else. what the andriod said about hebi seems about half right but kinda missing the bigger picture

[zMuffinMan]

i see literally no downside to voting cupcake though

[zMuffinMan]

i guess kaede could be scum

[zMuffinMan]

man, this conversation is going nowhere fast

[zMuffinMan]

@mod

please warn cupcake for his highly-discriminatory hateful anti-muffin rhetoric

thank you

[zMuffinMan]

i didn't even know wisdom knew what jokes were but i suppose in this information age with google just a few keystrokes away he may have come across the term somewhere and looked it up

[zMuffinMan]

firstly grapes =/= kochiki

What's this mean

it looks like he's saying grapes is equal to a slash which is equal to "kochiki", whatever that means

im helpful

(helpful people are town, btw)

[zMuffinMan]

because brian said something about grapes waiting 5 days

and nah, i wouldn't say that as scum. i'd only say that as town. honest

[zMuffinMan]

i'm pleading the mafia equivalent of the fifth

also put a vote down already

[zMuffinMan]

orrrrrrrrrr crazy theory, dunnstral was joking

[zMuffinMan]

If he was, the humor was certainly lost on me. Is that how you interpreted it when you first saw it?

either that or he's a D1 IC and that was him revealing it

wait til fakegod checks in, i suppose

[zMuffinMan]

this was your reaction to my theorizing

he was either joking or revealing himself

everything you and kaede were saying is moot in either scenario

[zMuffinMan]

if he was revealing himself, your question to him was literally pointless

[zMuffinMan]

Nope, coz at the very least I can clear up his misconception

you can do that without asking a pointless question though

It is entirely possible mastina's fake claiming

nope

[zMuffinMan]

I thought he was just throwing shade at mastina

walk me through why you thought this might be the case and what you thought it would say about dunnstral

[zMuffinMan]

I thought he was just throwing shade at mastina

walk me through why you thought this might be the case and what you thought it would say about dunnstral

Because mastina would be unable to clear herself until day 3, a possible scum dunnstral would obviously want to prevent that call to avoid inspecting her or trying to get her lynched or something.

yeah... either play has really deteriorated since i stopped playing or it seems incredibly unlikely that there would ever be enough support to push a role that's literally going to confirm itself in 2 day phases...

so i don't really buy that you thought he might be scum 'throwing shade' at mastina

i could see you thinking 'easy angle to make it seem like i'm doing something' when thinking like this, though

[zMuffinMan]

i would vote kaede but that would break my never-voting-anyone-but-cupcake vow so i am conflicted

[zMuffinMan]

brian, would you like to hydra with me this game? you can control our (your) vote, but we discuss where it goes as a team (in our hydra PT - aka this thread). that way my vote can remain on cupcake but i'll still feel like i'm participating in this game

i currently think we (you) should vote kaede. thoughts?

and thoughts on the rest of the game?

VOTE: CUPCAKE

[zMuffinMan]

dunnstral seems fine tbh. don't really think he looks like scum so far

[zMuffinMan]

you spelled kaede wrong, btw, but im ok with that typo

kinda taking the mason claims (mastina, cupcake) at face value for now so leaving them alone
hs town im ok with
moment probably town yeah but not as sure yet
andriod seems town
kokichi seems townish
wisdom and nosferatu and maybe grapes seem townish

[zMuffinMan]

not masons, IC, but same diff

also should go without saying but im pretty ok waiting 5 (4 now?) days to lynch someone

[zMuffinMan]

Dance with me, Ginngie

You invited me to the dance, you dance with me. It's the rules.

Tango or salsa

And Idunno if this is fucked up but I only asked you so I could see how muffins reads you so I can stop being so shit lmao

im using a complex series of calculations combined with a highly advanced program that analyses her word choices and compares it to a database of her previous games AND divination methods such as reading tea leaves to make sure i have all possible angles covered

i spent thousands of dollars preparing all of this so you can imagine my disappointment when she claimed IC and i threw it all out the window

[zMuffinMan]

tbh i dont really understand why there's so much discussion about kaede and emotions

it has little to do with why she's scum IMO

she hasn't been trying to find scum, she's been consistently asking questions and making statements that only seem sensible at a cursory glance in an attempt to look like she's a perfectly reasonable town player trying to find scum

i see very little town intent there, even if i squint really hard

[zMuffinMan]

the first rule of the secret underground organisation is you don't talk about the secret underground organisation so, unfortunately for you, you will never know

that's also the second rule

and i think they're planning to take a vote in the upcoming annual meeting about making it another one of the rules as well

[zMuffinMan]

how hard r u squiting?

please don't accuse me of squiting

[zMuffinMan]

Sorry to not live up to your expectations muffin, as you can see it's very hard to find scum when you don't know who's town and who's scum to begin with! Must be very good to be such a god like yourself who is pushing cupcakes on something like "We are never the same alignment" proceed to joke around and then say that im not scumhunting and call that your scumhunting.

Oh I forgot, there was also calling hebichan the least town of everyone, and then agreeing that I could be scum somewhere down the line.
While I agree that hebichan is pretty low likely town, that was based on her latest post where she votes Wisdom now that I don't have the read I had on Wisdom before, your scumhunting happens in some secret underground organization? coz im not seeing where you're coming to your conclusions.

was there a point to your rant about my play here?

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think you understand what my point was if you think that anything i said was hypocritical

i wasn't making a point about a lack of scum hunting in and of itself (we're less than 10 pages into D1 - i don't expect any massive amount of scum hunting to have taken place this early on)

i was making a point about your approach to this game and the types of questions you're asking and the types of statements you're making

the point was actually about the lack of pointedness in your points

missing the point and saying i was being hypocritical isn't exactly helping your case here

saying i'm hypocritical without actually drawing a conclusion about what it means about me doesn't help your case either

[zMuffinMan]

that reminds me

we need to come up with a hydra name for this game

im thinking isaac and miria

but i need you to change your avatar back for that to work

[zMuffinMan]

Like, it wouldn't surprise me if Kats is making that claim just to take a jab at you recycling your claim earlier

kinda don't really care about that atm

If you think hebi is scum, then I guess I can see why you might think the andriod is town

it's independent of the hebi read, doesn't really matter what hebi's alignment actually is

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Kokichi Oma

.

nah

[zMuffinMan]

Realtalk tho. If I were to share reads it would be basically all townreads with some nullreads

note: this is 14:3 fyi so to be expected

side note: there may be no goons

[zMuffinMan]

oh, is calling mastina scum in vogue now?

if so, mastina is scum

[zMuffinMan]

good, we need to reduce our hydra dissonance

[zMuffinMan]

But I have read everything

were you reading everything before you posted #153/#172?

[zMuffinMan]

do you have any thoughts about who may be scum, then?

or any thoughts on the 10 other players you didn't mention?

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, but you don't say that until she produces content

get in line with your hydra partner's thoughts, please

[zMuffinMan]

hebi

But I have read everything

were you reading everything before you posted #153/#172?

i'll stop being coy here and get to the follow-up questions:

when you wrote #153, did you miss all the posts about grapes and people pointing to and talking about the setup?

did you miss the fact that mastina claimed D3 IC well before post #153/#172? and, if so, why did it only bother you as of #278?

[zMuffinMan]

Why do you townread me?

small things

[zMuffinMan]

i think theyre probably town

[zMuffinMan]

what? no i think muffinman and those other dudes are town, not nancy

[zMuffinMan]

you said you were having trouble with that. i just made it easy for you

im being helpful again and helpful people are town

[zMuffinMan]

@hydra partner

when one more person votes nancy, you should put our (your) vote on nancy

being third on a wagon is a town tell iirc

[zMuffinMan]

i just realised, things are going to get quite awkward when we try to discuss how to use our role(s) tonight

didn't think that one through

[zMuffinMan]

Ask Fakegod to keep your hydra QT open obv.

he said hes not going to

i guess he doesnt like hydras or something

[zMuffinMan]

reminder that we should be waiting approximately 2.5 RL days before lynching anyone (probably a good idea regardless of whether you think kokichi is town or scum, b t w)

[zMuffinMan]

what do you think of kaede's vote on you and what is your read on kaede?

[zMuffinMan]

I think at least one of Dunn, Nos, Kat is possibly a wolf

the language here is interesting

[zMuffinMan]

I think at least one of Dunn, Nos, Kat is possibly a wolf

the language here is interesting

How so?

"possibly" is a weak word
especially when combined with "at least"

(ignoring any other issues i might have with that statement, such as why she didn't include kaede or why she picked three names and made no conclusion about which one she thought was most likely or anything)

[zMuffinMan]

She followed up on this and scumread Dunn though.

not really, but i suppose you could argue she did

[zMuffinMan]

I hate mislynches, so I would rather sort someone like her out. That’s why I didn’t include in her in the most likely list of possible wolves on my wagon because I have no doubt that the scum vote(s) on me is most likely an opportunistic vote.

i don't really think this makes sense, either

she has to sort out all three of the people she listed anyway, so the first sentence isn't a good reason

the second sentence might explain it if she thought like that, but it just seems like an assertion based on nothing

[zMuffinMan]

i have an innate bias against people who use words like opportunistic to describe votes, so take things i say with a grain of salt i suppose

[zMuffinMan]

I wouldn't call it fence sitting because that is a pool of suspects that nancy is interested in.

it's not fence-sitting - fence-sitting would be someone who's unable to decide (e.g. someone weighing up the pros and cons of something but being unable to decide which is more likely)

what she did is just a lack of commitment

[zMuffinMan]

Anyway I think for a townie the natural reaction to getting suddenly wagoned like that is to assume there's scum on their wagon and you're already working on finding said scum, so maybe im wrong here

heh

[zMuffinMan]

Do you think I’m incorrect about this and that my wagon is 100% town? Because that would definitely be a first

a. no, this would not be "a first" (maybe for you, but a 6-person all-town wagon with 17 alive in a 14:3 game isn't so rare that you should be amazed that it could happen)
b. no, i don't think that. i don't currently think the three people you listed are likely to be scum, but i also don't think your wagon is (was) all town (regardless of your alignment)

@brian,

like i said, arguably you could call that a scum read, but i don't really think it is

what do you think of post #363 (both in the context of what you just said and just as a general post)?

[zMuffinMan]

Are you seriously asserting that scum votes aren’t usually opportunistic votes?

yes (but i can't be sure you're using the same definition of "opportunistic" as i am so this seems like a pointless discussion). though it depends on the player and the context of any given vote in any given game, i suppose

i have an aversion to words like "opportunistic" because they can be used to describe _anything_ with the right spin. it's a vague umbrella word and bad for communication that requires specificity

[zMuffinMan]

the first question i'm mostly ignoring (because dunn's post was clearly a joke and she seems to be misinterpreting it). the second question is the bad one, yes. the third question is bad in the context of the second (IMO). the first question is bad in the context of the second as well

[zMuffinMan]

i don't particularly feel like breaking this down into very minor details and explaining specifically what i don't like, so i will just float this out there and you can say whether you see why i might think this:

i currently think the most likely scum team is nancy-kaede-ginngie

subject to change on a whim if i feel like it

[zMuffinMan]

Why are you not even considering this?

because it was clearly a joke

one which didn't have any consideration for your alignment at all

but it doesn't matter to me whether or not i'm right about it because i was only mentioning that as a side point; it doesn't change how i feel about #393, whether or not what dunnstral said was or wasn't a joke

[zMuffinMan]

er, #363 rather...

also

I mean that scum is obviously not voting for genuine pro-town reasons. That is specifically what I meant by “opportunistic”.

this is not what opportunism means and it's part of why i hate the word

[zMuffinMan]

@isaac,

nosferatu isn't anywhere near that high up for me

dunnstral still seems fine to me, would prob put him above wisdom

hebi above ginngie

rest seems about fine, but varying degrees of strength in ranks and my "meh" is more like "mehtown"

[zMuffinMan]

can you give your current reads in one post? (with or without sprinkled reasoning, i don't care, i'm just unclear what your actual reads are)

[zMuffinMan]

MuffinMan's joke

what joke? i dont remember joking about anything in this game

or was that an insult? like "your posts are a joke"? if so, that was rude

[zMuffinMan]

Apologies, there must have been something wrong with my keyboard; what I remember typing and what I meant to type was "MuffinMan's 100% serious vote that he is never changing as long as he lives, as well as his infallible probabilistic reasoning".

Hope that clears things up.

yeah, no problem, the keys are like right next to each other so it's an easy typo to make

[zMuffinMan]

people who have played one game with you are not "familiar with your meta", and no, there was nothing unvillagerious about that post

[zMuffinMan]

He’ll look elsewhere for now but he’s coming after me later. I can’t see how that’s a town mindset at all.

because vanity wagons are a sin in the eyes of the mafia gods

the mafia gods want blood

[zMuffinMan]

isaac
hs
mastina
moment
kokichi
purr
grapes
andriod
dunnstral
-----LYNCH BELOW THIS LINE----- <-- i want to move this line a couple notches down but i can't in good faith
nosferatu
wisdom
hebi
kaede
ginngie
nancy

cupcake

[zMuffinMan]

dunno, seems pretty transparently town to me. i legit don't even see where the scum reads are coming from

why is nancy town? ill expand on my read if you expand on yours

[zMuffinMan]

i suppose it also helps that i agree with a lot of moment's thoughts (i.e. re: nancy and ginngie)

[zMuffinMan]

Youre mistaking wallposting for towniness
Theres no real town motivation in anythinf hes done

i'm not (and i don't really think moment's posts are 'walls')

and i don't really get the point about town motivation. i haven't liked everything moment's written but the lines of questioning seem fine to me, the reasoning for reads seems fine to me and i can follow the thought processes pretty easily and see how the reads are evolving

Read the first 5 pages of the game I linked

i have

there are similarities. there are differences. i can't find a scum game for reference (including on MU) so i don't know how much i should care about either

meta seems pretty pointless to me without a scum game for reference

[zMuffinMan]

(note: i'd read that game before it was even mentioned here)

(i thought nancy might be scum before she'd even posted here. i've been paying pretty close attention to her site activity - i figured she might be the type of scum who lurks a lot and i wanted to find a reference for it. couldn't, but figured i'd read some town games to see how she usually posts anyway)

[zMuffinMan]

nah nancy's first post was pretty indicative of scum tbh

though the reason moment mentioned is a lesser reason

the bigger concern was what nancy said about hebi

[zMuffinMan]

i dont really think there's much to explain...

if anyone really has to ask what i meant, just ask yourself what the point of nancy's hebi mention was (note: it wasnt a read) or what you think she was trying to achieve with it

the "post-game" comment you just made is pretty awkward. i get youre trying to imply that im wrong but that kind of relies on me being town (you may be in for a surprise here) and it seems like an unnecessary comment to make except as an attempt at manipulation

[zMuffinMan]

@shane

miria*

[zMuffinMan]

You still havent said why you think I'm town

inside information

your name wasn't in my PM

horoscope said so

take your pick

(you're not in danger of being lynched so i don't really care about expanding on this and i'm not in danger of being lynched so i don't care whether you think i'm making something up)

[zMuffinMan]

could just lynch ginngie

make everyone happy

except ginngie but he doesnt count

[zMuffinMan]

now is the part of the day where people should start forming larger wagons instead of having lots of small ones

Moment [4]

- Nosferatu, Nancy Drew 39, Purrcocet, Wisdom

Katsuki [4]

- zMuffinMan, Dunnstral, Kaede Akamatsu, andriod18

Ginngie [2]

- Moment, Human Sequencer

Wisdom [2]

- Kokichi Oma, Katsuki

hebichan [1]

- grapes

Kokichi Oma [1]

- mastina

mastina [1]

- hebichan

Nancy Drew 39 [1]

- Brian Skies

Not Voting [1]

- Ginngie

the wisdom, kokichi, mastina wagons should probably collapse and move to a different wagon because they really aren't viable

realistically, isaac should just move to ginngie or something since nancy probably isn't happening today (despite the fact that she's said nothing that actually seems town and plenty that doesn't)

grapes' hebi vote is the only 1-vote wagon that should remain just because that actually could get votes

so... vote in {moment, cupcake, ginngie, hebi} or give a good reason why you're not doing it (i.e. make your preferred choice viable)

[zMuffinMan]

i imagine that would be the case, yeah

[zMuffinMan]

im just going to ignore you and stop giving you response-bait

[zMuffinMan]

i think wisdom is missing many puns that could be used when asking people to vote moment

not sure if that means anything about his alignment though

[zMuffinMan]

I think nosferatu is lowkey scummy too

dont think he's 'scummy' per se

just hasn't done anything town

[zMuffinMan]

Me catching a verbose and manipulative scum yet nobody listening to me

i don't think moment is scum

i dont currently think you're scum either but i sincerely doubt ill be working with you this game given the way our reads look

unless i happen to be wrong. but i don't think i am (at least about moment; i could be wrong about who's actually scum i suppose)

on a side note, if ginngie is scum, i could make a pretty strong case for nancy being scum with him

and since no one wants a nancy lynch, i really want a ginngie lynch to happen to get the ball rolling in the right direction

[zMuffinMan]

i doubt im wrong, so i guess that makes me scum

oh well

[zMuffinMan]

im contractually obligated to vote cupcake - im not voting him to get him lynched, i just cant unvote (on principle - i suppose it's physically

possible

to do so, but im unwilling to test that theory)

ginngie's total lack of actual content despite so many posts is a pretty good indicator of scum, IMO (i also have issues with what he

has

chosen to comment on, but i'm not particularly interested in explaining it since i think it should plainly obvious and if it isn't, i don't really have the energy to bother going into detail)

i (obviously) disagree on nancy and i could explain this one (and may before the end of the day, maybe) but i don't have the energy to bother going into detail about that atm either. i could be wrong about this read; i don't currently think i am though and i think you're reading all the wrong things in her play (consider, for example, the strength of her reasoning and conviction behind her reads in the game you've played with her and compare it to anything she's done here). the only thing that _seems_ town (with emphasis on seems) is the AtE but i'm currently thinking that's a tactic she's using (and it's entirely different from the AtE she was using in that game you're referencing as meta). there's a _really_ obvious distinction that i noticed that i'm waiting to gather more data on before mentioning (it has to do with word choice, but i imagine you'll shrug it off as insignificant when you find out what it is, even though i don't think it is)

moment isn't scum. neither is dunnstral

im not particularly interested in strongarming lynches in this game or taking it too seriously (at least not right now) so i don't particularly care about trying to prove you wrong or anything

i just expect you to push mislynches for a while given the general look of your reads

[zMuffinMan]

I do think it's weird that Nancy did a 180 on me and the way she talked about me when I said she could be town

this is an example of what i was talking about in terms of reasoning and conviction - there are plenty of others if you're paying attention

also, fun fact: nancy is the only person in this game to call ginngie town (albeit for faulty reasoning because she seems to be assuming he's eddie cane)

[zMuffinMan]

*shrug*

i welcome the possibility that im wrong

i currently think that's unlikely

[zMuffinMan]

That will convince you I’m town?

it might. unleash he inner beast and see what happens

[zMuffinMan]

there's only three scum in this game

read up on your mod meta

[zMuffinMan]

yes. see: every single alice game run so far for example

[zMuffinMan]

moment/dunn/kaede

kaede is most likely scum, yes

at least we have one read we agree on

[zMuffinMan]

not sure there's enough support for that unless a few key people change their reads

[zMuffinMan]

well, i approve of it and think it should be added to the list of wagons to consolidate on... but im just being a realist

btw

consolidation needs to happen sooner rather than later

3 days and change, people

'TIS TIME to pick a name in {ginngie, kaede, hebi, cupcake, moment} and vote them if you aren't already OR give a good reason why another wagon should happen.

[zMuffinMan]

'twould also be nice if people could make clear who they're willing to compromise on (e.g. i want my hydra partner to preferably vote in the first three names, roughly in order - probably not considering a lynch on the latter two as of now)

[zMuffinMan]

realistically i want to purge these names:

nosferatu
hebi
kaede
ginngie
nancy

and cupcake because cupcake but not because he's scum

[zMuffinMan]

ideally rather*

realistically i don't see that happening for a while

[zMuffinMan]

grapes is town probably

[zMuffinMan]

perhaps

i have had some shocking D1 reads before

dont really think this is an instance of that happening, but i suppose we'll find out soon enough

[zMuffinMan]

want to play hangman, cupcake?

real words this time, no special characters

----- --- ------

[zMuffinMan]

you get 7 incorrect guesses as a handicap

[zMuffinMan]

@shane,

that should be

------ --- -------

hint: when asked to describe how much love they have for muffins (especially in comparison to cupcakes), 10 out of 10 people will answer it with something like this

[zMuffinMan]

no, that just confirms you as scum

[zMuffinMan]

---o-- --- -------

[zMuffinMan]

oh is moment playing hangman too?

i

[zMuffinMan]

the point of that game is to show why dunn is scum, not to show im good at catching scum
thats already known

this reminds me, kokichi had a good point about wisdom never making jokes

hmm

[zMuffinMan]

I can understand not being motivated, but at the very least an effort should be made, especially considering what you're doing with your vote.

it's not a lack of motivation, per se. im just not so interested in getting people lynched atm. i am liking just playing the role of observer and drawing my own conclusions (right or wrong) about things without being invested in who gets lynched

right now i am the mild-mannered bruce muffner

some day soon i may transform into the incredibl(y lacklustr)e mulk and MULK SMASH but that day is not this day

[zMuffinMan]

wisdom's not scum (probably)

[zMuffinMan]

because he says he has a strong D5 role (lol as though that even matters) and that's not something scum would fake-claim... duh

[zMuffinMan]

dunno if that's necessarily alignment-indicative and nothing can really come of speculating (since the slot can't really answer any questions about it), but i feel roughly the same way you do about it

with the addendum that i didn't like hebi lurking prior to that (despite posting elsewhere)

also, i don't think cupcake is claiming to be an

actual

innocent child fwiw

[zMuffinMan]

ESPECIALLY not when I am easily protection role bait

i see no so i can only assume this was a serious remark

or next-level humour

hmm

[zMuffinMan]

nancy confirmed herself as a D1 innocent child

cupcake accidentally scum slipped

we're lynching wisdom because he's obnoxious though

[zMuffinMan]

With the exception of Dunnstral and Nosferatu, your list is literally an exact inverse of mine.

i think that is a good sign for me

trying to remember when this has happened before

[zMuffinMan]

one of the xeno games maybe

[zMuffinMan]

muffin the fuck is your moment town read based on

would you believe i daycopped him?

i probably wouldn't believe that, but would you? (just trying to get an idea of what i can and can't fake-claim here)

how do you know i'm town-reading moment anyway?

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think moment is scum

idunno why I would think that muffin

just trying to get an idea of how much of the game you've read to put it in the context of your recent posts : ]

[zMuffinMan]

stop being dissonant, isaac

[zMuffinMan]

play like what?

[zMuffinMan]

what ok content has nancy posted?

[zMuffinMan]

only thing i've seen people mention is "scumhunting off her wagon" (as though scum never do that)

[zMuffinMan]

Brian Skies/Human Sequencer/Kokichi Oma/Purrcoet/grapes/andriod/Nosferatu

hydra partner (i suppose i could be in a hydra with scum but i currently dont think so)/town (almost 100%)/town (almost 100%)/town (almost 100%)/town (almost 100%)/i think town but less sure/could be scum

either your reads suck or mine do. guess we'll find out

[zMuffinMan]

what? that's mastina's lynch pool

[zMuffinMan]

how generous of you

what are your reads again?

[zMuffinMan]

why didn't you mention it in your list of wagons if it has this much potential support?

because im not blind

because im actually reading the game and keeping track of the number of people who might support one wagon or another

[zMuffinMan]

you could be right about andriod - that read has been going stale

i was guessing day talk in this game but for different reasons

im going afk until at least D2 (busy)

dont lynch: brian, grapes, kokichi, mastina, hs, dunn, purr
prefer not lynching: wisdom, moment

dont give a shit about the rest tbh though preference for lynching in my purge list

[zMuffinMan]

lynch in ginngie, kaede, andriod, nosferatu imo

last post of day

see you D2

[zMuffinMan]

hey

quick phone post while eating late lunch

nosferatu is scum
ginngie is scum
lynch them, find third by association (might be kaede, dunno. could also be andriod or ankamius or maybe outside chance it's wisdom)

"yeah great idea muffin"
"youre totally awesome and i will sheep you for the rest of the game"
"wish i was as cool as you but im cupcake so that's impossible"

rest of game is probably town maybe possibly

[zMuffinMan]

grapes is town, please stop being bad. just look at the angles from which he's formed reads on this game and if you tell me scum do that with a straight face then youre lying or kidding yourself

on that note, read ginngie iso and notice a total lack of anything town - only noteworthy thing he's done so far is call a few people town to seem like he's being reasonable and the way he does that isn't even town. he's just padding his post count with content that might seem reasonable when you don't examine it closely; e.g. love the totally real concern he has for where my vote is, though - 100% believe that's what frustrates him most about this game

nosferatu's votes are all bad and come from a bad place but hey let's just ignore that for some reason

kaede might be town if only because neither ginngie nor nosferatu seem to give much of a fuck she's been run up and theyre most likely able to post the way they are because scum arent under any real pressure

good night. i might post once tomorrow. no promises

[zMuffinMan]

and ---o-- --- ---a---

[zMuffinMan]

Spoiler: literally nothing town in these posts, more of the same when you look elsewhere in ginngie's iso

okay tbh

you got a dummy amount of people who have played with nancy first hand going vro, she town

I'm just saying wisdom of the crowd

Wait fellas

does this make sense

I can see one goon but it's clear main characters are pr roles and this mech is to help scum it's a balance yes it can land on scum but still overall it helps them. Set up spec is not the best on day 1 though.

into this

Wait this isn't rolemad?

Is what I’m supposed to be seeing

1. Saying only PR is main, therefore not role mad

2. Saying also they thought it was

HI 18

Hello.

AM I SCUM

Tbh gun to head i wouldn’t be able to determine because I honestly don’t remember you being a presence in this game

HI 18

Hello.

AM I SCUM

Perhaps.

come on now champ ik u dont believe that

What’s your angle here?

I'm actually dummy mad at muffin for leaving with this post

lynch in ginngie, kaede, andriod, nosferatu imo

last post of day

see you D2

and vanity voting cupcake

while also saying

now is the part of the day where people should start forming larger wagons instead of having lots of small ones

I love the consistency

[zMuffinMan]

I'll do you one better: Who are you claiming

oh yeah, this too

good night

[zMuffinMan]

cupcake probably isn't an actual IC but he does have a D5 role and he might still be town (don't care about him yet - even if he is scum, find other scum first)

it's within fakegod's mod meta to put multiple town roles in a game to mask a scum role (i.e. a scum vanilla cop - ginngie - being masked by multiple instances of town vanilla cops). it doesn't

necessarily

imply the existence of a goon or goons in this scenario (though one may exist). it doesn't

necessarily

imply that there is a scum vanilla cop (though in this case, there is - it's ginngie)

roughly ordered reads:

isaac
mastina
grapes
hs
kokichi
dunnstral
purr
kaede
nancy
wisdom
moment
-----LYNCH BELOW THIS LINE-----
andriod
ankamius
nosferatu
ginngie

cupcake

[zMuffinMan]

---on- --- ---a---

[zMuffinMan]

tbh i'd prefer ginngie (and i specifically want to point to how he reacted to both vanilla cops as an instance of why it should be obvious that he's not town - because he should have had a reaction similar to grapes when kaede outed her role and his reaction to grapes' claim and his planned action is just... bad)

nosferatu is basically just lack of town posts + bad votes + poe + armchair posting that you'd typically see from scum

[zMuffinMan]

it's not even about counter-claiming per se, it's about trying to figure out what it means about the setup

beep beep yeet off the wagon plz

you dont lynch a cop claim d1 :3

this isn't ginngie-town-who-is-a-vanilla-cop's reaction to kaede's claim

[zMuffinMan]

what part about me saying I've seen this shit before don't you understand?

doesnt change anything

However, I always hold the belief that role does not equal alignment as a priority over anything else.

inconsistent with #1238

[zMuffinMan]

and you never lynch a cop before they can get a result

yes, and this is theoretically sound because a regular cop claim is either a fake-claim OR it's going to be killed/blocked/tampered with in some way by scum and lynching it later makes sense theoretically

vanilla cops are fundamentally different (a vanilla cop isn't really a threat to scum, it just limits fake-claims) and especially in a setup with multiple vanilla cops, getting a result isn't important nor would it really tell you anything about kaede's alignment - so if you think the claim is scum, you lynch it

this should be extremely obvious to anyone who actually thinks about it. this should be more obvious to someone who is a vanilla cop himself

what i think actually happened here: you were not thinking about this in a town way. instead you saw kaede's claim, donned your lustrous white armour and took the opportunity to look gallant and chivalrous by defending what you knew to be a town claim. your immediate vote on grapes when he voted kaede (before he claimed) supports this

yes, you may have seen duplicate roles before and been wary about counter-claiming - i believe this. that has nothing to do with anything here

anywho, this isn't why i think you're scum - it's a minor additional reason

[zMuffinMan]

who's scum, nosferatu?

[zMuffinMan]

vote ginngie then

[zMuffinMan]

@ginngie,

i don't have anything to say that's of 'utmost importance'

but i will do a breakdown of where i'm at with reads with a (relatively) short summary of why (note: kind of unordered within ranks) (can probably elaborate on any one of these reads in a bit more depth if required but cbf now and too busy today - basically wasting my break writing this already - so maybe later tonight):

mastina - probably town (claim, don't care to sort further)

grapes - probably town (i've liked his approach to scum hunting here - it looks like he's not trying to seem town, he's just giving thoughts on various things as they occur to him and the angles he's thinking about things from just seems town to me - e.g. the wis/hebi thing he mentioned looks more like an example of town having a thought occurring to them rather than scum just throwing random suspicion out there. claim stuff recently looks town)

purr - probably town (similar to grapes, the general observations and the way he's been approaching reads looks town)

kokichi - probably town (had him as town early for a couple reasons - setup speculation if he's telling the truth about the 5-day thing, tone, subtle word choices in some places which are kind of hard to fake consistently over a body of work. i think his approach to reads is genuine - in particular, i think the wisdom read and approach to wisdom this game feels like a real read)

human sequencer - probably town (sort of similar grapes/purr)

dunnstral - probably town (somewhat different to the grapes/purr/hs reads but similar in nature - there's a lack of being guarded and a lack of what looks like an agenda and i think the way he's approaching reads and claims looks genuine)

brian - probably town (i've been swaying a lot on the strength of this read at various points, but more recent posting has made me feel better about this - e.g. i think his outburst about nancy/andriod seemed town and i think his posts immediately after i said i think it's ginngie-nancy-kaede seemed town

___________________________________________________

nancy - more likely town than scum (i had a lot of issues with her early play, particularly the fact that she spent a lot of time defending herself and hardly any time actually trying to find scum and when she did make attempts that looked like trying to find scum they were pretty half-hearted - e.g. the dunnstral thing which i've already talked about. also didn't like her questions to me because they felt like just a waste of space in an attempt to look like she was doing something. softened up on this a bit recently for a few reasons - i'm buying some of the recent appeals and i think her reads and some of the other things she's been saying more recently feel more genuine)

kaede - more likely town than scum (this... is a read that's too complex to give a fair summary to but in short i didn't like kaede's early play (particularly the appeals to wisdom which looked to me like trying too hard to prep for countering suspicion on her), i haven't really liked the way she's been forming reads, but recent posts have felt a bit better (yes, most of it is ate and i am aware she does this as both alignments but in this particular case i think it's more likely to be town) and interactions with people i think are likely scum don't really look like scum-scum (don't talk to me about how this is unwise before a flip))

wisdom - more likely town than scum (i really want to put him higher up for little things such as thinking there were 4 scum and i do think his general aproach to forming certain reads - e.g. kaede, moment - looks more likely town than scum. the issue i'm having with putting him higher is certain other reads he has - e.g. ginngie, nosferatu)

___________________________________________________

moment - possibly town (this read has been slipping a lot and that's partly due to POE pushing him further down and partly due to me rethinking some things i thought looked a lot more town earlier on than i do now - e.g. i thought the first post he gave reads looked kinda town to me when i first read it and i thought his reaction to people calling nancy town looked kinda town too (since there was an avenue for him to just back down like the rest of the game was doing there rather than being stubborn about it), but on looking back at it i'm less sure and his posts lately have left a meh impression on me)

___________________________________________________

andriod - possibly town, possibly scum (partly poe, partly some things have just been bugging me lately - e.g. don't really agree the thing about goons necessarily means anything, but i do think the 'thought this was role madness' comment seems pretty out of place and andriod just hasn't had any real presence for a long time now. i thought the early posting was townish though)

ankamius - possibly town, possibly scum (partly poe, partly just a lack of seeing anything town from the slot yet. didn't particularly like hebi's play or lurking. ankamius hasn't really done anything that looks town to me. hasn't done anything that looks like scum either, though... just haven't really cared for ankamius's posts so far)

___________________________________________________

nosferatu - more likely scum than town (partly poe, but really just haven't seen anything town come from the slot yet. all the votes feel like incredibly lazy 'any lynch on town will do' votes. don't really buy the excuse that he's townhunting here because, well, he isn't or he'd have more reads than he apparently does. not sure what to make of the recent self-vote ate stuff - kind of ignoring it for now until i have a chance to look into how he plays at some point. was kind of interested to see if he'd vote ginngie or not and him doing so but now unvoting doesn't make me feel great)

___________________________________________________

ginngie - probably scum (honestly, i don't think this has anything to do with playstyle clash or anything like that - he just doesn't look like he's genuinely interested in finding scum and every time he talks about someone being town it doesn't look like it's coming from a town place. i might go into this in more detail if i have time later, but ill prob be busy with stuff this afternoon so it will have to wait until tonight but as a really, really quick example, his approach to reading nancy (wotc) and his questioning of certain wagons without committing to a read (e.g. kaede, grapes) doesn't look town to me at all - it just looks like scum who's trying to come off as reasonable when he knows they're mislynches. early play doesn't look town. recent stuff around claims doesn't look town. may elaborate later)

___________________________________________________
___________________________________________________
___________________________________________________

cupcake - cupcake

[zMuffinMan]

stomach upset but real quick

I literally voted grapes because I thought I made it clear to not fuck with a cop invest and he did anyway

that doesn't make him scum, though (i might have to look into whether you've ever snap-voted someone for a similar reason but this feels like a poor excuse)

btw since cupcake is fake-claiming, i'll fake-claim too

i'm also a vanilla cop

-e-on- --e ---a---

[zMuffinMan]

i buy your ate

it's not really helping your case though

kinda just want people to focus on talking about who's scum and why rather than all this stuff

[zMuffinMan]

Word choice that are really hard to fake over a body of work, plus the 5-day thing huh.

can always go into more depth about this later, but really, from what i've seen of his scum game, this isn't it

-e-on- -he ---a---

@mod, please prod cupcake

[zMuffinMan]

NO I

[zMuffinMan]

i am, unfortunately, obliged to take guesses from cupcakes only

not my choice, he's holding my family hostage - one of his demands is that i can't take hangman guesses from other people (but i can still vote him in mafia games for some reason)

every time i beat him in hangman, he releases a hostage

[zMuffinMan]

OMG YOU JUST KILLED ONE OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS

[zMuffinMan]

i feel better about moment flipping scum than kaede atm

i feel worse about moment flipping scum than ginngie atm

[zMuffinMan]

ginngie isn't town...

he might be not town with moment, but he isn't town

[zMuffinMan]

youre strongly wrong

[zMuffinMan]

then you may need to get your eyes checked

[zMuffinMan]

then your top two town reads have a shitty read too

[zMuffinMan]

look, there is certainly a possibility that i'm seeing something that's not there and ginngie is actually town

i'm someone who constantly reassesses things; reads i was sure of a minute ago, i might be sure of the inverse now. im fickle when it comes to reads and i constantly reassess

but ginngie is not town here - that i am pretty sure of

i dont particularly mind if he isnt lynched today. there's two other scum and maybe moment is one of them (if i have time tonight, ill do some reading because i remember there being some interactions between them that were weird)

but im pretty sure ginngie is flipping scum i sincerely doubt this read will change and if i actually have to start putting in effort to get him lynched down the line, im not going to be particularly happy about it but i will do it. it's not something i'm overly concerned about happening today. it is something i will make happen at some point if im alive later in the game

and if i die early and someone says "oh, he could have died for any reason" or "oh, he died to frame ginngie" i will find that person and i will do unspeakable things to them to make them pay for their crimes

[zMuffinMan]

@literally anyone: tell me who ginngie thinks is scum

[zMuffinMan]

dont direct protective roles and don't waste them on me (i sincerely doubt im being killed - it's just if i do, i will be rolling in my grave if anyone gives ginngie a pass)

[zMuffinMan]

ginngie is the best lynch
moment is a good compromise
kaede wagon should just collapse
as well as the other wagons (onto one of the first two)

[zMuffinMan]

only reason id be fine with a kaede lynch is if nobody on that wagon ever gets listened to for as long as this game lasts from tomorrow onwards

[zMuffinMan]

irregardless

oh and also because she said this

[zMuffinMan]

pet peeve

[zMuffinMan]

I don’t see any evidence that a moment wagon is viable, not today anyway.

any wagon that can actually gain traction (i.e. not one starting from scratch now) is viable this close to the deadline

Kaede Akamatsu [4] - Ankamius, Kokichi Oma, Human Sequencer, Nancy Drew 39
Moment [3] - Wisdom, Nosferatu, Brian Skies
Ginngie [3] - Kaede Akamatsu, grapes, Dunnstral
Wisdom [2] - Katsuki, Ginngie
Kokichi Oma [2] - mastina, Purrcocet
Katsuki [1] - zMuffinMan
Nancy Drew 39 [1] - Moment
grapes [1] - andriod18

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to lynch.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2018-06-20 15:00:00)

this is current

assuming the kaede wagon collapsed (it should) and joined a different wagon (or even split into moment/ginngie), those wagons would be viable

only problem is there's lurkers and they may or may not show up in the next 12 hours

[zMuffinMan]

theoretically,

purr has expressed interest in voting moment, mastina has expressed interest in voting moment (if she even shows up again before deadline - wouldn't count on it), cupcake will vote anything that has a pulse and ginngie will save his own ass - that's 4 votes right there if you wanted to lynch moment

moment is viable

ginngie is less viable - still a better lynch

[zMuffinMan]

If there are 8 votes on that wagon, I will hammer

helpful philosophy

you do realise that if everyone else in the game adopts the same philosophy, no lynch will occur, right?

[zMuffinMan]

like, i know i'm largely being hypocritical because i haven't moved my vote from cupcake all game (and, if possible, i'd like to keep it that way, but i'm willing to break my vow if absolutely necessary - plus i'm a hypocrite and a wanker so i'm fine with being stubborn about inconsequential things like this even if it is detrimental, but i'm a bad role model and YOU shouldn't be like this)

but uh... you could always switch to moment then switch back to kaede if you really, really, really want to for some reason

lynches occur either because everyone has a single player as their top suspect or people compromise and shift their votes to second or even third choices. in this game, the former isn't happening; people need to be open to lynching their second choice here. be a good sport and vote moment, ok?

(fine with a ginngie vote too, even though i know you won't do it)

[zMuffinMan]

kaede is most likely a mislynch

_at least_ more likely than the other wagons atm

[zMuffinMan]

@fakegod

if you prod me, i'll fight you

you don't scare me

[zMuffinMan]

heh

and now i remember why i said i was going to ignore you for the rest of the game

back to doing that

@mod please prod cupcake

@cupcake, your turn

[zMuffinMan]

on going over moment's ISO, i dont actually think hes scum. but if i were to vote a not-cupcake player and i couldnt get a ginngie lynch, moment is the least bad viable alternative, if only because, town or scum, itll at least get wisdom to shut up about it

[zMuffinMan]

hard to call what im doing "ego"

the rest yeah

[zMuffinMan]

actually tbh i took a nap and was hoping moment showed up and claimed or posted anything really before i woke up because i wanted to get an idea of what i was probably going to end up voting but that didnt happen

[zMuffinMan]

dont really feel comfortable lynching an unclaimed player who i dont even really think is scum D1

i will anyway because i actually dont care all that much about playing well here, but i would probably be opposed to it in some other game

FYI i have nothing close to a town read on ankamius and i dont know why others do

[zMuffinMan]

V

o

t

e

:

M

o

m

e

n

t

@mod please prod cupcake

@cupcake just vote moment, who cares

[zMuffinMan]

prettttty sure youre wrong about moment so there's one

but ginngie is the person you _should_ be changing your read on

he just might also be scum with ankamius

[zMuffinMan]

kaede lynch isnt happening today

the sooner the people on that wagon acknowledge this, the better

try not to do 100s of smaller wagons with no consolidation tomorrow, yeah?

assuming im still alive, maybe ill actually put some effort into shepherding and/or doing some form of proper game solving tomorrow but i guess it doesn't really help that there were people hard lurking or being deliberately unhelpful today (myself included, even though i was doing it somewhat intentionally - the rest of the people doing it are just being bad (mastina, cupcake, etc) or scum (ginngie))

[zMuffinMan]

just appease the blood gods please cupcake

wisdom probably isn't scum (he may be but i honestly dont care enough to sort further today and if he happens to be town, he isnt going to shut the fuck up about moment tomorrow either so just get it done today)

it's an unclaimed player, yeah. it's probably a town flip, yeah. it's not ideal play, yeah. just do it anyway

[zMuffinMan]

like i honestly would rather just purge the ever living shit out of my most recent lynch below this line list (and ill prob start actively trying to do that tomorrow) but id rather just thin the player list a bit and move on with the game than no lynch

if the flip is bad, just blame me for it - i dont really care

this day phase is will-sapping. just don't do it again

[zMuffinMan]

the wagon is bad (probably). it's going to be a town flip (probably). just get it over and done with and move on

[zMuffinMan]

my reasoning here for why it's better than no lynch: i could be wrong and if wisdom is town (seems more likely than not) at least he'll shut up about it one way or another. making wisdom shut up (and move on if hes wrong) is the prime motivating factor here but maybe id feel different if i thought he was scum so whatever

stop having a pissing contest with him btw, nobody cares

[zMuffinMan]

was there some thematic reason role names were revealed at day start?

[zMuffinMan]

But I didn't read the thread proper

i didnt say you did. point was that you wouldn't have claimed like that without reading the claims that had already happened (especially at start of d3) - so you were deliberately ignoring the stuff at the start of d3 (whether or not youd really read it or not)

Actually Katsuki didnt fake claim, he just gambited when he had been roleblocked, which was N2.

(and d4 with dunnstral)

[zMuffinMan]

google? i googled my character name + deemo and got mine lol