Mini Normal 2015 - Lab Rat Mafia - Finished

[Ircher]

VOTE: Creature

[Ircher]

Perhaps...

[Ircher]

I guess this is a Geriatrics game after all!

(Just joking!)

[Ircher]

Well, the game just started...

[Ircher]

VOTE: Penguin

[Ircher]

Can we flashwagon Kublai instead?

[Ircher]

VOTE: Kublai

[Ircher]

p.edit: huh. Why, Ircher?

Why not?

[Ircher]

p.edit: huh. Why, Ircher?

Why not?

Why'd you ask permission?

Because I wasn't gonna solo-vote someone; that would accomplish absolutely nothing. There is strength in numbers.

[Ircher]

Good, you're scum anyway.

[Ircher]

Good, you're scum anyway.

Hmm...why?

I think I will choose to keep my reasons confidential at the moment.

[Ircher]

Fine with me.

[Ircher]

Oh. There's an abbreviation for that now? Huh.

It's existed for quite awhile... You never heard of it before?

[Ircher]

VOTE: Creature

[Ircher]

VOTE: Hopkirk

[Ircher]

UNVOTE: KK I like.
Who's played with Creature?

I have.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Espe

[Ircher]

He’s pretty easy to read, so give him time.

Rn, I think this is his scumgame but we shall see.

[Ircher]

Good, you're scum anyway.

Hmm...why?

Okay, I wasn't a huge fan of Kublai at the start because of the way he was telling Penguin that he wasn't playing to win condition by self-voting et cetera in the first few pages of the game.

Also, all my votes since then have had zero reasoning behind them other than to see if someone would say anything, which hasn't happened.

[Ircher]

@ByronVilla - Thanks for stepping out into the open. Would you give a rundown of everyone so I can identify your partner?

VOTE: BryonVilla

In you want me to go in depth on everyone gladly!

PP

- Is promoting discussion and getting information out there, talked about this in my last post.

I don't think I really see this? Penguin has been talking, but like me, he hasn't really said anything useful.

Khan

- Seems to put himself on a high horse, saying that he's not interested in being friendly and just wants to win, and then tries to accuse Hopkirk of being condescending, when he's actually the one in the wrong. Is throwing sarcy comments everyone and whilst he is actually participating in the discussion, I'm not getting good vibes off of him.

Why aren't you getting good vibes? To clarify, how does being condescending give off bad vibes? (Also, define sarcy because I'm too lazy to look it up.)

Creature

-

Creature is also worrying me slightly, but he seems like more of a frustrated town than scum so far.

and that's worrying?

Well yeah it is, it feels like you're frantically pumping out posts with no real content in them in order to appear like you're promoting discussion. Either your posts are pure fluff like:

brb finding out who Tommy Egan is

Yeah, this town will need to be carried.

Or you're asking questions to people who likely aren't going to give you an answer. Namely, Joral, the 3rd most inactive player in the game right now who has said himself that they are 'not of a mind to provide meaningful commentary yet'

joral, what do you think about PP doing absolutely nothing?

joral, do you think Tommy Egan is someone who has played recently?

joral, how bad post 98 is for you?

This isn't making meaningful discussion. What would be making meaningful discussion is getting information out of the people already in the thread, for example Creature, what makes you say that PP has done 'absolutely nothing'? In my opinion he's done quite a lot compared to say, you.

I mean, I do think the string of posts from Creature was him playing against his typical meta; i.e.: they were on the forced side, but I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with his approach at the moment.

Ircher

- Seems to be a fan of small posts. Gets his point across and I can't say I really have a lean on him, but I'd like to see more meat on the bone if that makes sense?

You know, I would like you to elaborate on how exactly I am getting my point across because I was under the impression that I was being quite obscure.

Hopkirk

- Not as much as a townread as PP is for me, but I can follow the thought process on his reads and so he's at the very least neutral for me.

Okay.

Golden

- Whilst I'm a PP fan right now, I can appreciate his #68 & #75, they come off as promoting discussion and that's the main thing to do in this phase of the game imo, so he's a neutral for me right now.

Why must you have only one townread? Can't Golden be a townread for you as well as Penguin?

Performer/UnrealSeal/joral/Espeonage/Tommy Egan/Not_Mafia

- Haven't posted enough content to get any good reads on them right now.

Okay.

[Ircher]

Oh, VOTE: Byron.

[Ircher]

Good, you're scum anyway.

I don't like it when people make these kind of claims with no explanation in the post.

UNVOTE: Performer
VOTE: Ircher

You don't have to like it, but that isn't something to vote someone for. Or is there more to this?

My meta is really the only relevant discussion here?

If you want some relevant discussion start some. There's no point just sitting there whining that 'this town needs to be carried' on Page 5, that's not going to help town in the slightest.

You really ought to give Creature more time... It's still early, and I don't really see you doing anything either anyway.

Where are you at Byron?

Currently Khan has caught my eye, calls you condescending whilst being condescending himself (see the interactions between #76 & #84), feels like flawed logic.

Being a hypocrite is hardly a scumtell.

Creature is also worrying me slightly, but he seems like more of a frustrated town than scum so far.

In terms of any town reads so far, I'm leaning a bit towards PP. I appreciate his efforts to get wagons going, and his move to vote himself really helped to fuel some discussion.

Hmm.........................................................................................................................................

Speaking of me liking wagons though, this Khan wagon is picking up some steam and I want to hop on it.

UNVOTE: Ircher
VOTE: Khan

I don't think it was ever picking up any steam, esp. considering I jumped off it earlier... Also, your wording.... is..... really..... pinging.... me..... here.....

Oh I think I made some mistakes in that post gimme a sec

In you want me to go in depth on everyone gladly!

Should be 'If you want me to go in depth...

Khan

- Seems to put himself on a high horse, saying that he's not interested in being friendly and just wants to win, and then tries to accuse Hopkirk of being condescending, when he's actually the one in the wrong.

Is throwing sarcy comments everyone

and whilst he is actually participating in the discussion, I'm not getting good vibes off of him.

Should be 'Is throwing sarcy comments at everyone'

Or you're asking questions to people who likely aren't going to give you an answer.

Namely, Joral, the 3rd most inactive player in the game right now

who has said himself that they are 'not of a mind to provide meaningful commentary yet'

Should be 'Namely, Joral, the 2nd most inactive player (tied with Seal if we're going off of post count) in the game right now'

I honestly don't think any of us really care too much about these fixes? This seems more of an excuse to like you are doing something.

[Ircher]

Would like to know why the flip from Espeonage, from the negative post about Penguin's "jump on a wagon" comment, then what appears to be a naked jump on the Penguin wagon? What's with that?

Is this directed at me?

Because I don't think I understand what you are trying to say here if it is.

[Ircher]

Can you elaborate on your Bryon read?

[Ircher]

Day 1 Espeonage ISO

:
1. In 50:

Why do you want to force only two wagons?

No comments on this for now.

2. In 55:

Huh. Fair.
Put a vote on me or Kublai in the meantime?

Would you say this isn't trying to force people in to only two wagons?

Why do you jump to the conclusion that Penguin is

forcing

people to be on only one of two wagons?

3. In 56:

Why do you want to force only two wagons?

Great first post btw.

.............

4. In 87:

Vote PP

This vote doesn't really make sense...............

5. In 150:

Nah I was annoyed at PP. And then decided to vote him for being mafia.

How is Penguin mafia?

6. In 152[/url]:

I haven't been reading. There's quote chains so I skipped the pages except on a skim.

Please actually take the time to play the game. Skipping quote chains isn't acceptable.

7. In [post]154:

Town: Me
Scum: PP

That's it?

8. In 161:

I ain't read, what you want me to say

........................Please explain how this comes from a town mindset, especially considering that the game isn't that big.

9. In 167:

Bruh.

(...)

[Ircher]

​

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
Ircher (100%) - Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)

Null

(0% - 30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)

UnrealSeal

(+28%) - Overall, I feel like he is being genuine, especially in posts like 164 (even if I disagree with what that particular post says from a philosophy standpoint). That said, there really isn't enough to get a good read on this slot at the moment.

Joral

(+8%) - 143 is a decent post, but I feel it may be a bit on the shallow side. 155 also feels like a very shallow read. Overall, I'm not sure what to say about this slot's alignment.

Not_Mafia

(-1%) - Useless as he always is. (Jk, but there is nothing to read him on so far.)

Creature

(-15%) - To be honest, I'm not sure how reliable my meta would be with Creature given the fact that playstyles change over time, and I haven't really recently played with Creature. That said, a lot of his posts just feel like him pretending to be busy, and I am currently under the impression that Creature is trying to manipulate his playstyle to be less obvious. On the other hand, I feel like Creature has a (genuine) vested interest in this game, and that could be used as an argument for town!Creature. Overall, I want to give this slot some time; he could be scum, or he could be town, but there is not enough to say which it is at the moment. (Oh, and I would like to add that Creature's meta isn't simply a matter of activity; you gotta think a little deeper than that.)

Neutral

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read)

Tommy Egan

(+55%) - I really like their posts and their engagement in the game. It is not just a single post here or there that feels town;

all

of his posts feel town (and not in the forced/scummy LAMIST way).

Hopkirk

(+40%) - His posts seem neither excessive nor minimal, and I kinda like the general direction he is thinking in.

Golden Robster

(+38%) - I like 68 and 75. On the other hand, I dislike 151 (Golden Robster has not given too much in reads themselves) and especially 156 (it seems too accusatory to me). That said, they are asking many questions, and I feel most of them are meaningful.

Kublai Khan

(+31%) - Despite the fact that he feels he is right about everything, I don't see anything that makes me believe he is scum. On the contrary, I think most of his posts help move the game forward, which is a good thing. I am confused though by the first part of 186 where Kublai is complaining to Performer; I feel like Kublai is misinterpreting Performer's post because I think Performer was referring to the interaction between Kublai and me around 59 or so. The only other thing to note is the early Penguin and Kublai interactions; I find it on the weird side, and I will leave it at that.

PenguinPower

(-31%) - His interactions with Kublai were weird, and I'll leave them at that. 54 feels strange: Penguin finds Espeonage's post to be great, yet Penguin did not (at least, I presume that he not) think that he was forcing Creature (and others) to choose between one of two wagons. Like, what is great about the post? 65 just seems strange and too much on the shady side of things. Then, as a whole, the ISO just feels... off..., so I'm not sure if this is just more the way Penguin plays or if Penguin is playing some kind of weird scum theatrics right now. (That probably isn't the correct use of terminology, but whatever.)

Performer

(-35%) - His posts start off fine; like, I have no issues with 172 or 173. But then we have posts like 177, 181, 182, and 183, which just seem off and are in some ways bad. I remember playing at least one game with Performer though it was a long time ago (like back when I joined), and I have a feeling they are a better town player (granted, I don't know their scum meta) than what I've seen so far. Maybe it is inexperience, maybe it is a new site culture, but something feels off about this slot.

Espeonage

(-40%) - Espeonage claims they have not been reading the thread, but I am not sure that is true considering they seemed to respond to things directed at them. That aside, I get the impression that Espeonage does not want to read the thread and that intrigues me.

ByronVilla

(-55%) - 70 is bad. The "this Khan wagon is picking up steam..." comment in 118 feels off. 122 reads as frustration, but I don't think it is highly indicative of Byron's alignment. Then we had the useless 129 where Byron

looks

like he is doing things. If you want my honest and biased opinion (of course you do), 144 feels like the "Oh, now that people are pointing out things that are wrong with my posts, I feel like I gotta start addressing them." To clarify, the post just doesn't feel very genuine. That's probably a bad explanation too. It just does not feel like town defending themselves, but rather, it feels like scum defending themselves. 187 also for whatever reason feels like a scum-motivated post. It starts off with "Yeah, I don't really get why everyone jumped on Espeonage" which just feels like Byron knows Espeonage is town, and he ends the post with "The man hasn't even made a post consisting of more than two lines of his own" which makes no sense in terms of scumreading a person.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)

​​

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)

Spoiler: How to read this readslist

Players are placed in different sections based on my confidence in the read expressed as a percentage. A positive percentage indicates that I leans towards town on a player whereas a negative percentage indicates I lean towards scum on a player. Please note that the Null an Neutral sections contain both townreads and scumreads and you must look a the sign of the percentage in parenthesis to determine which way I lean.

Confidence ratings are rough estimates and are relative to one another. In addition, they tend to be scored on a logarithmic scale versus a linear scale; in other words, the difference between 0% and 30% tends to be greater than ther difference between 30% and 60%.

[Ircher]

Yes, I've played with you, but you aren't that memorable tbh. I also feel like your posts contain more content in them this game than in other games where I've played with you.

That's mine; sorry.

[Ircher]

Code: Select all

[spoiler=]Hello[/spoiler]

produces:

Spoiler:

Hello

[Ircher]

‘I'm not sure why "who can read Creature?" has been such a reoccurring topic? Nobody else can claim to be read flawlessly, why is everyone worried about Creature?’
Lots of experienced people seem to believe creature is really really easy to read on meta. Plus it’s interesting to see how people interact with it (eg, if scum believe it they’d want to lynch him early).

Ircher- your numbers are kind of counterintuitive when a random person should be like 75% town.

Did you read the spoiler? While alignments are random, reads are not; the numbers indicate my amount of confidence in a read and have little to do with probability.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Espeonage
This wagon is going somewhere; the Byron one is not.

[Ircher]

Okay, that was weird...

[Ircher]

In post 219, Ircher wrote:
VOTE: Espeonage
This wagon is going somewhere; the Byron one is not.


Don't really get why that's a good idea.

So the game doesn't stall, but alas, that has already happened.

[Ircher]

Can we just like... choose a lynch and be done with the day?

[Ircher]

Remind me, why Joral?

[Ircher]

And Espe is town rather than null because....?

[Ircher]

Let's see... Not_Mafia always did nearly nothing, so I will go with VOTE: Joral because I'm not against the wagon, and it seems the best direction to be going in atm.

[Ircher]

Even though I like PP, I feel like robsters questioning of him is good. KK still looking bad

Tommy E terrible post 94. How the F is KK pinging town to u?

blech @ Creature vomiting shitty 1 line posts all over page 5

How exactly does KK still look bad? I mean, if you think its his tone, I think that is more or less NAI.

[Ircher]

I used to flow better when I had more real-time interactions.

Okay, so what do you think about the game state currently? Besides its lurktastic nature.

[Ircher]

Scumreads - UnrealSeal, jorals, Tommy E, Byrons

Remind me, why is Tommy scum?

[Ircher]

1. In 307:

Hopefully I'm not too late...

Late for what?

2.

Can we just like... choose a lynch and be done with the day?

Explain this post please? Why the rush?

Why not the rush when nothing is happening? If we are going to sit around and do nothing, I would rather the game day end earlier than later. Also, to be quite honest, I work much better on the latter days where there is actually some alignment-indicative info to work off of.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Byron L-1

[Ircher]

Why is it bad, aside from the fact that I put it to L-1?

[Ircher]

Bye bye Byron.

[Ircher]

I'm catching up, so......

[Ircher]

1. In 356:

Hey N_M that's a nice Guilty result you gave me there my boy. Why don't you give me a claim.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Nice, we have a likely guilty!

2. In 359:

VT, you aint got shit

This is a bad claim as mafia as it is basically turning the likely guilty into a guaranteed guilty. It at least forces a 1v1 between Seal and Not_Mafia.

3. In 360:

If your a VT how did you visit Kublai Khan last night.

Hi, I'm a Mason Tracker

So, we are definitely NOT lynching you today as a mason fakeclaim becomes apparent pretty fast.

4. In 367:

mason tracker is a real role?

Actually, that is a good question. Last I remember, neither mason nor tracker are considered modifiers, so I don't think they can be used as a compound role under the current guidelines...

5. In 368:

A guilty's still a guilty.

Not if the role in question is suspect...

6. In 369:

So can we like not instalynch N_M and try to find last scum?

That's quite hypocritical considering that you are voting Not_Mafia at the moment.

7. In 387:

Mason tracker is normal right? Voting after I get a chance to check.

(I don't think so...)

8. In 388:

I already got it mod-confirmed that it is.

Modifiers which are explicitly Normal for any alignment include:
Ascetic, Backup (with or without primary role present), Bulletproof, Enabler (with or without primary role present), Macho, Neighbor, Non-Consecutive Night, Weak, X-Shot, Ninja, Loyal, Disloyal, Loud, Multitasking, Informed, Activated, any modifier restricting to a specific set of nights (e.g. Even/Odd Night, Night Specific, Novice)

While I know the wiki hasn't always (and may not currently be) up-to-date on the normal guidelines, it was recently updated to reflect the new normal guidelines, so the above is the list of approved modifiers to use in a normal game. I.e.: As far as I can tell, a mason tracker is

explicitly not normal

.

At the same time, I find it a bit questionable that the mod would confirm such a role is normal/not normal, especially when there is ambiguity surrounding it. It suggests the role is perhaps actually in the game and somehow didn't get noticed when the setup was reviewed, which does happen from time to time.

9. In 392:

Okay fine, I didn;t want to claim but I'm JOAT, I have a doc, cop and JK, I used the doc last night, so scum has a strongman

Or perhaps a roleblocker? Regardless though, I don't believe this. Also, who

would not

use the cop N1 unless you

knew

there was a PR worth protecting?

10. In 397:

I kinda doubt there's any scum besides N_M on the wagon.

Tomorrows lynch should definitely be from the people not voting scum day 1.

This is bad reasoning regardless of whether or not it is the truth.

[Ircher]

While it may not be in town's long term interest, I want the other mason to claim to verify Seal's claim. I just cannot accept it at the moment as a truthful and honest claim; I'm not necessarily saying Seal is scum, but I do think this might be an extended gambit.

[Ircher]

Actually, that is a good question. Last I remember, neither mason nor tracker are considered modifiers, so I don't think they can be used as a compound role under the current guidelines...

Normal Games must use only approved roles,

and can use any combination

(so long as there is at least one Vanilla Townie) in conjunction with approved modifiers.

I interpret the bolded as meaning we can use different roles as we like in a setup:

E.g.: It means that both a Cop and a Doctor or both a Cop and a Jailkeeper could appear in a setup (because those are all explicitly normal roles.)

On the other hand, why do we have the distinction between roles and modifiers if roles and modifiers are the same?

[Ircher]

Not if the role in question is suspect...

Do you really think Seal is lying right now?

Possibly though not necessarily scum.

(And I did it again...)

[Ircher]

Hey N_M that's a nice

Guilty

result you gave me there my boy. Why don't you give me a claim.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

VT, you aint got shit

Okay fine, I didn;t want to claim but I'm JOAT, I have a doc,
cop and JK, I used the doc last night, so scum has a strongman

Ok, so unreal shows up d2, claims Mason Tracker, nm claimed super early AND he didn't vote back unreal. nm said unreal was lying, yet didn't vote him back, and nm claimed. Later he claims he fakeclaimed vt. nm later claims JOAT, and it looks like he's saying he protected khan but it failed, he speculates it's due to a strongman in the scum team. At this point if both these guys are telling the truth, they just outed themselves to scum with a target on each of their backs....sigh
Remaining prs, do NOT claim.

At the same time, If I take several steps back and further think on this, I have to wonder about the setup:
mason tracker, mason tracker, JOAT, mafia goon, scum 2, scum 3.
Trying to think if this makes sense.

I’ve seriously never heard of such a strong & strange town pr in a mini normal, and I’ve hosted a game where scum claimed tracker so that’s not farfeteched if it’s a fakeclaim for Mason Tracker. On the other hand, I always have a soft spot for our prs, and nm looks guilty even without unreal's result.

actually UNVOTE: before the self hamer

don't want to put him to L-1 until everyone has a chance to chime in.

Huge thanks to jar, completely agree on retract because nm is a quickhammer type, also thank you for waiting for me and others. You'd be appalled by the number of quickhammer and impatient players onsite nowadays.


Also,

FOS: ircher

FOS: not_mafia

FOS: unrealseal

We got lucky on the byron lynch. But didn’t you - Ircher - realize we had a quickhammer player in here - not_mafia?
---------
Still doing some catchup.

@Performer I wanted the day to end, so that wasn’t really a concern. Antitown perhaps, but not necessarily scum-motivated. I’ve learned long D1s are evil.

[Ircher]

1. In 437:

And yes, having the other Mason confirm would be terrible. I already left that Mason code, he can confirm himself when he needs to, but having him claim right now would just give scum the advantage since we don't know scum roles. It would also mean that any actual town protectives (if there is one) would have to decide between saving two people instead of just me.

Not necessarily; the primary strength of the mason role is that masons can confirm each other. If you die, the other mason can't necessarily confirm themselves as being a mason; there's no way we would be able to connect your "clue" to the true mason without said "clue" being quite obvious to the scum team.

2. In 443:

@Psyche: Would you count a mason tracker as a normal role?

(This is probably the correct way to word such a question though I think that said question probably shouldn't be answered at all unless it is a really simple, clear case. Answering it still seems to imply the absence or presence of the role in question.)

3. In 457:

no it doesn't. NM says he did indeed make the visit.

I highly doubt Not_Mafia's claim of being a JOAT is true, regardless of his alignment.

VOTE: Not_Mafia
I think we've heard from everyone by now?

[Ircher]

Reading back, scum probably actually bussed the shit out of byron.

Like, this line just gives me bad feels,

I don't think there's scum on my wagon.

In terms of possible scum if I'm wrong, Ircher pinged me with just wanting to rush the day and get it over and done with. I don't see a reason to rush the day at all right now.

Khan/Golden have also been hard for me to get a read on. They've done some good stuff but also some things that have raised my eyebrow so that's kinda null for me.

Hopkirk/JJD/Performer are a townread for me, I'd be very surprised if they were scum.

Here’s a guideline I think town should start employing after a D1 scumlynch: ignore the associatives associated with said Lynch.

[Ircher]

Here’s a guideline I think town should start employing after a D1 scumlynch: ignore the associatives associated with said Lynch.

Why though?

I’ve heArd town’s win rate seems to DROP when the D1 Lynch is scum.

[Ircher]

Not necessarily from newbie games; its something I've heard on multiple occassions though.

[Ircher]

Creature is scum. Discuss.

[Ircher]

I think we probably Lynch Petformer before Creature though.

[Ircher]

HEY WHAT HAPPENED TO A DAY START PM????

[Ircher]

Anyone wanna claim the Performer kill?

Vote: Projectmatt

Why should someone claim that kill? It definitely wasn't a bad kill.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Projectmatt
I don't disagree with this vote.

[Ircher]

Why sure! We aren't going to lynch in 3 days now are we?

(Barring another guilty that is.)

Actually, now might be a good time to massclaim. That should net us at least two conf!town.

5-2-1
4-1-1
3-1
2-1

Hmmm......

[Ircher]

Narrows the lynch pool.

I guess we could wait til tomorrow.

[Ircher]

Anyone wanna claim the Performer kill?

Vote: Projectmatt

I think Hiraki is likely town but as I said, things point to the joral slot being town.

Gonna do some rereads to see who we should lynch today. Might be leaning penguin.

I dont think we need to mass claim but I wouldnt mind mason #2 claiming. Also the vig can claim the shot too.

I would like to note that having the other mason claim and the vig claim is basically the equivalent of a massclaim. I find it unlikely town has more PRs with Unreal's flip.

[Ircher]

Honestly, I want to wait until Creature catches up. They might offer insight on stuff we have missed.

Their V/LA supposedly ends on June 20, so we should still have plenty of time before deadline for them to catch up and give us their thoughts on the game.

[Ircher]

(Please do.)

[Ircher]

Yeah, I think we just go ahead and lynch Projectmatt. I'm like 70% confident that will end in a semi-perfect town victory.

[Ircher]

@Mod: You apparently didn't fix the VC to use Hiraki instead of I think Tommy Egan. The votes for Hiraki got interpreted as votes for Hopkirk as a result.

[Ircher]

Yeah, I think we just go ahead and lynch Projectmatt. I'm like 70% confident that will end in a semi-perfect town victory.

elaborate on this read.

No. Or at least, not at the moment.

[Ircher]

I don't have the time to do so at the moment.

[Ircher]

I'm actually starting to think that lynching Creature (at least for today) isn't the correct move.

[Ircher]

Yeah, I think I'll get to this say Sunday or so....

[Ircher]

(Prodge)

[Ircher]

Have we given projectmatt enough time?

I've been ready to drop a vote on him for a few days now but ircher implied he may have something he wants to talk about today so figured I'd wait a little

Eh, not really.

I mean, projectmatt I think asked me why I scumread him which I haven't gotten a chance to really get to, but if we are lynching him anyway, it's not that important, so you don't have to wait on me.

[Ircher]

someone just hammer

[Ircher]

*sigh*

[Ircher]

How is Project town for sure again?

[Ircher]

UNVOTE:
I’m not definite I would support a Creature wagon. It’s really hard to tell his alignment this game.

[Ircher]

How is Project town for sure again?

Nvm, you were referring to Hiraki’s slot.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Penguin

[Ircher]

My reason is primarily PoE based.

Like I said, I’m unsure on Creature, I was given a good reason for Project to be Town, and I pretty much townread everyone else.

So claim please.

[Ircher]

Someone hammer pls.

[Ircher]

(expired on 2018-06-29 16:46:30) to hammer or we lynch you instead.

[Ircher]

I'd be willing to lynch Creature tomorrow IF he continues his trend of doing barely anything this game. (Though, I kinda can't blame him for it....)

[Ircher]

Oh, that's fine. Like I said, it's only if you continue your trend of doing nothing. (Though I admit I've basically done nothing this day.)

[Ircher]

Tbqh, I don't know. I kinda lost interest in the game.

[Ircher]

Eh, I think it's possible.

[Ircher]

Like, some of the things do kinda ping me in JJD after looking back over it....

[Ircher]

(Watch Hopkirk get night killed tonight.)

[Ircher]

VT

[Ircher]

So, Creature is PR by PoE?

[Ircher]

In that case:
VOTE: JJD

[Ircher]

Yeah, I really feel JJD is final scum based on D2 posts.

[Ircher]

So tempted, so tempted

I'mma take this as intent so Byron should claim.

mason tracker is a real role?

So Seal, ur confirmed town to one or more people?

Mason tracker is normal right? Voting after I get a chance to check.

I already got it mod-confirmed that it is.

Man it just seems like super strong to have an informative role that can be town confirmed.

While it may not be in town's long term interest, I want the other mason to claim to verify Seal's claim. I just cannot accept it at the moment as a truthful and honest claim; I'm not necessarily saying Seal is scum, but I do think this might be an extended gambit.

I think this is where I'm at as well.

@jar sadly you and ircher want the buddy to claim. I say it's not a good idea. I'm worried.

If the claim is true then seal is dead tonight so why not give us the other conf-town before we head into night?

It would also mean that any actual town protectives (if there is one) would have to decide between saving two people instead of just me.

Huh, ur a tracker right? You're not claiming that your partner is a mason PR as well are U?

Not buying NM's switch claim.

Yeah NM is almost surely scum.

My concern is this is a crazy scum play where NM and Seal are scumbudies. Seal then 'admits' that it was just a gambit and then becomes practically conf-town because he got NM lynched. It wouldn't be totally out of the question for a scumteam that is doing terrible.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid but I'd feel much better w/ Seal giving us who his partner is.

@JJ- that plan falls apart when we hit massclaim numbers and he doesn't have a partner alive to fakeclaim. NM/US loses unless people buy NM's second claim as far as I can tell.

I accounted for that in my theory when I said that he pretends it was a gambit.

But hey as long people agree to lynch Seal if it turns out he was lying even if NM is scum then I'm cool.

Anyone wanna claim the Performer kill?

Vote: Projectmatt

I think Hiraki is likely town but as I said, things point to the joral slot being town.

Gonna do some rereads to see who we should lynch today. Might be leaning penguin.

I dont think we need to mass claim but I wouldnt mind mason #2 claiming. Also the vig can claim the shot too.

I feel like scum is pretty obvious rn but we gotta find town to feel better.

I think the problem is I have too much town.

[Ircher]

@Hopkirk, @Project, @Golden, @Creature: Lynch Jar, and I think we win!

[Ircher]

You didn’t need to fakeclaim... If we mislynch today, you simply need to be explicit about your jail target so we go into mylo with that info.

[Ircher]

Creature is conf!Town.

JJD being a liar will become obvious.

I’m Town.

Hopkirk I think I’d Town as well.

So: GR or PM?
UNVOTE:

[Ircher]

Also, if JJD is alive in 4p mylo, we should no Lynch.

[Ircher]

Really? Why?

Pedit: Ok....

[Ircher]

Hmmm... Good point.

What do you think the chances are that scum have a role blocker? (I mean, Creature is conf anyway by mason PoE...)

[Ircher]

I also believe that scum was informed about the masons having dual roles. I feel like hopkirk was going out of his way to appear ignorant of the subject.

Mason tracker is normal right? Voting after I get a chance to check.

@Psyche: Would you count a mason tracker as a normal role?

I assume anything privately confirmable is also publically confirmable. Alternatively, everyone can just pm the mod. That either gives us the answer, or confirms a player is lying as you can't give that kind of info to some players who ask but not others.

Not buying NM's switch claim.
Other scum off the wagon.

Anyway, I'm not invested in the game because it seems solved by night action stuff as long as we don't hammer a mason/vig.

VT.
Which is confusing since that's 5 vts with6 alive and 2 apparent PRS.

I care to this same conclusion just now regarding the informed role.

[Ircher]

Oh, and in the absence of other claims save Creature’s mason claim, JJD is conf!Town.

Mason Tracker + Mason Even Night Vigilante v. Mafia Informed shouldn’t pass an NRG balance check.

Maybe it would if the scumteam was all goons, but not as it currently stands.

[Ircher]

Okay, but I’m almost certain he’ll claim either:

Mason Even Night Vigilante
Mason 1-Shot Vigilante

I have a hard time believing a Vig doesn’t shoot N1, and the more I think about, the more I think it’s unlikely scum have a RBer in this game. (Maybe 1/2 shot, but definitely not a full one.)

Pedit: ????

[Ircher]

What’s the the point of massclaim if everyone fake claims?

[Ircher]

Creature is still town based on what JJD claims.

[Ircher]

Hopkirk?

GOLDEN???

Pedit: Was about to say... And are you masons?

[Ircher]

Project said VT earlier...

Hopkirk and I are apparently hard-claiming VT as well as Creature....

[Ircher]

hardclaiming vig

Full claim pls; 1/2 shot or full or even night?

[Ircher]

well then yeah we need the other mason to claim and then yeah we prob win.

It makes your claim less believable

I get that but I still think we win. Just need to know the mason.

Obviously Project.

[Ircher]

doesn't matter if creature fully claims

???

[Ircher]

I hardclaim VT.
Hopkirk claimed VT.
Golden hardclaims vig.
JJD hardclaims JK.
Project claimed VT.
Creature hardclaimed VT.

[Ircher]

Creature is conf!town regardless because scum!Creature fakeclaims mason here like 95% of the time.

[Ircher]

also I don't have any shots left

1 or 2 to begin with?

[Ircher]

brb getting food

pedit: creature, I had you pegged as mason when you posted at the same time as seal, don't even

Creature is hard claiming Vt. There’s no way he keeps this up as Town mason.

[Ircher]

Hopkirk and I, by virtue of continuing to not claim mason, aren’t masons.

Same for Golden and JJD.

Everyone, go recheck your role pm. Speak now or I will presume PM to be mason.

[Ircher]

JarJar, did you do what I said?

[Ircher]

One mason is not normal, right?

Not definite, but Unreal claimed to have a partner anyway.

[Ircher]

Golden still hasn’t confirmed 1/2 shot

[Ircher]

No. That’s explicitly not normal.

[Ircher]

Who was the N1 target?

[Ircher]

Who was the N1 target?

[Ircher]

Oh, okay.

[Ircher]

You did double-check you aren’t mason, right?

[Ircher]

They have some extra info about the setup.

[Ircher]

Town JK + Town Mason Tracker + Town Mason + Town 2-Shot Vig v. Mafia Informed + 2 Mafia Goons

[Ircher]

Okay, so mastina designed this...... Hmmm.....

[Ircher]

Yeah, no way JK is scum.

Creature is town then by JJD.
Golden is on the fishy side, but likely town.
PM is mason by PoE it seems.

So we Lynch Hopkirk today, and me in MyLo....

Pedit: No.

[Ircher]

Mafia JK is about as strong as mafia RBer. Town would need 4 PRs in that case.

Pedit: Yeah, but mod meta can be useful.

[Ircher]

Actually, no.

We Lynch Hopkirk.
I get jailed.

If no kill happens, we no Lynch. If a kill happens, we Lynch Golden.
I get jailed indefinitely until Happily Ever After or a kill happens.

[Ircher]

We never Lynch JJD, Creature, and PM (presuming the mason claim happens).

Maybe it would be better for JJD NOT to haul?

Pedit: Yeesh....

[Ircher]

Never lynch JJD or Creature or Golden (unless PM counterclaims).

We Lynch Hopkirk today.

JJD jails me.

If no kill happens, that’s 5 alive, so we Lynch me. JJD jails no one.
- Project is lynched. Guaranteed win.

If JJD is killed, that’s 4 alive.
One of PM or me, but I’m confirmed by JJD. We Lynch PM. Guaranteed win.

[Ircher]

well now we don't autowin unless u all consider me confirmed

You are confirmed by vig shot failing N1 and no possibly way mafia have full out jk.

[Ircher]

Is it basically confirmed through game balance stuff that the JK has to be town?

Pretty much.

Mastina emphasizes day play to a greater degree generally, BUT, Town needs 3 strong or 4 prs for scum to have a JK. Mason Tracker and Mason 2-Shot Vig don’t cut it.

[Ircher]

We need PM to confirm he’s not mason. Though that is auto win for us as well.

[Ircher]

(PM CCing Golden means we Lynch PM first then Lynch Golden.)

[Ircher]

Good point.
VOTE: Hopkirk

[Ircher]

wait no how?

???
If PM flips mason, that means Golden fakeclaimed and is scum.

Ah, we would Lynch PM first in that case though....

UNVOTE:

[Ircher]

town feels too strong though

I don’t imagine that mason 2-Shot Vig and mason Tracker hey considered too much stronger than a plain Tracker or plain 2-shot vig. You don’t end up with more confirmed, just a stronger confirmation of roles and ability to strategize together.

JK has to exist because N1 vig didn’t happen.
Either Golden or PM is the vig, and a vig exists cuz Perf kill N2.

[Ircher]

I forgot about 1-Shot Strongman which is possible.

We Lynch Hopkirk. JJD jails me, but I (as strongman) still kill JJD.

That leaves Hop, Project, Golden, and me alive. That isn’t an insta-win.... I don’t think strongman is likely though.

[Ircher]

Sorry, I did that wrong...

It leaves Golden, Creature, Project, and me alive. 2 of 4 are confirmed. Town no lynched, mafia kill Creature.

Now it’s Golden, Project, and me. 50/50 shot of winning.

[Ircher]

Mafia auto loses if even one kill is stopped.

[Ircher]

So the real question is: which two players do we trust the least? We Lynch one and jail the other. Mafia must kill or they lose. With any luck, the person jailed isn’t a strongman, so we Lynch the other.

Pedit: No. If JJD is town, Creature is town. (Unless Creature strongmanned Hiraki last night.....)

[Ircher]

could informed mafioso have known all the PR roles that town had

that might explain why hiraki kill is so weird

and hiraki was scumreading hopkirk

Prob. not all.

[Ircher]

Town Mason Tracker + Town Mason 2-Shot Vigilante + Town Jailkeeper v. Mafia 1-Shot Strongman + Mafia Informed + Mafia Goon

[Ircher]

Like, I’d think scum!Creature doesn’t strongman kill when they aren’t sure what PRs remains and who has them, so I’d still go with Town Creature 98% of the time here.

[Ircher]

Town Mason Tracker + Town Mason 2-Shot Vigilante + Town Jailkeeper v. Mafia 1-Shot Strongman + Mafia Informed + Mafia Goon

Feel like this could pass, but it would be borderline... Creature, any thoughts on this setup’s viability?

[Ircher]

Town Mason Tracker + Town Mason 2-Shot Vigilante + Town Jailkeeper v. Mafia 1-Shot Strongman + Mafia Informed + Mafia Goon

shouldn't 1-shot strongman have been used on UnrealSeal?

That would make sense actually....

@JJD —> Why DIDNT you jail Unreal N2?

[Ircher]

What about:
Town Mason Tracker + Town 2-Shot Vig v. Mafia Informed + Mafia Goon + Mafia Goon?

[Ircher]

wtf is the point of a tracker if I'm just gonna RB him ?

How about a confirmed innocent?

[Ircher]

What about:
Town Mason Tracker + Town 2-Shot Vig v. Mafia Informed + Mafia 1-Shot Jailkeeper + Mafia Goon?

EBWOP; we would have 1 unaccounted for kill if it was 2 goons

[Ircher]

What about:
Town Mason Tracker + Town 2-Shot Vig v. Mafia Informed + Mafia 1-Shot Jailkeeper + Mafia Goon?

EBWOP; we would have 1 unaccounted for kill if it was 2 goons

Actually, no. With current standards, Town isn’t gonna end up with two stronger but gated PRs VERSUS two mafia prs. JJD is town, but made a bad choice N2.

[Ircher]

We’re back to autowin btw cuz of Unreal kill eating up Strongman.

[Ircher]

Yeah, I’m thinking Hopkirk as well.

Golden fakeclaiming is honestly suicide anyway, but we can wait if that’s preferred.

[Ircher]

We’re back to autowin btw cuz of Unreal kill eating up Strongman.

Strongman isn’t super likely in the first place and it’s even more skeptical that scum still have a strongman shot.

[Ircher]

Never lynch JJD or Creature or Golden (unless PM counterclaims).

We Lynch Hopkirk today.

JJD jails me.

If no kill happens, that’s 5 alive, so we Lynch me. JJD jails no one.
- Project is lynched. Guaranteed win.

If JJD is killed, that’s 4 alive.
One of PM or me, but I’m confirmed by JJD. We Lynch PM. Guaranteed win.

This is what we’re doing more or less.

[Ircher]

We’re back to autowin btw cuz of Unreal kill eating up Strongman.

Strongman isn’t super likely in the first place and it’s even more skeptical that scum still have a strongman shot.

I know but cant blame me for being paranoid. U don't have any major objection to me JKing PM instead of u ?

Not really.

[Ircher]

Why are we lynching me before Pm?

Because you brought up strongman possibility.

[Ircher]

Though tbh, I would've shot Hopkirk and fulfill my prophecy last night.

[Ircher]

(Watch Hopkirk get night killed tonight.)

[Ircher]

VOTE: Hopkirk

[Ircher]

(Then can we just lynch Hop and get it over with?)

[Ircher]

@Creature, @Project, @Golden Robster: Please vote Hopkirk as soon as possible.

Pedit: We still need one vote.

[Ircher]

I just want the game to end. That's all. Take it as you like.

[Ircher]

I'm not sure where Golden Robster and Creature disappeared to....

[Ircher]

Yes.

[Ircher]

Still waiting on that flip.....

[Ircher]

Oh yeah, I asked the mod last night about night acceleration, so assuming the game doesn't end here, please do all of us a favor and say yes to accelerating the night. (There's really no reason to drag this game out anyway.)

[Ircher]

I was really worried there was a strongman for a sec...

VOTE: Project
For the win!

[Ircher]

JarJar, you are hauling me tonight if this is a town flip, right? (Just making sure....)

[Ircher]

Good job town!

Yep, fairly solid performance. You barely needed the PRs at all.

What'd you think of the setup, btw?

Weird setup to say the least, but it seems balanced.

[Ircher]

Mason tracker feels like an OPed role. Once it had the guilty on NM, there was literally nothing he could do.

That was because he got caught... Honestly, the result should’ve waited cuz of the masonry. Mason Tracker wouldn’t be op if it didn’t get the result it got this game.

[Ircher]

When will the review PT be released?