VARSOON VARIETY HOUR : GAME SCRAPPED

[Taly]

This is absolutely scandalous.

[Taly]

So much meta, game references, and pre-game talk O____o

I don't quite know what to think.

[Taly]

So much meta, game references, and pre-game talk O____o

I don't quite know what to think.

scum

So much meta, game references, and pre-game talk O____o

I don't quite know what to think.

Oh Im a scummy bear.
Yes Im a scummy bear.
Oh Im a yummy tummy funny lucky scummy bear.
Im a scummy bear.

Yay, we're scummy bears

[Taly]

I'm waiting for someone to buddy me.

[Taly]

I'm confused reading this conversation

[Taly]

mastina's claim was anti town yes but anti town doesn't=scummy it was purely NAI she would've claimed that as mafia and town to help whatever side she's on gain an advantage the fact this is a topic of debate is silly
~Maki

Mastina's claim is anti-town but NAI?...

Also, claiming is both a blessing and hindrance to everyone, regardless of their alignment. I doubt any of us have normal roles or abilities, and I don't know if many have synergy with another.

@Chara Also interested in the fact you didn’t answer my beeboy question.

Has it played with beeboy before I wonder?

i feel like i was ignored here. :<

i'm a miller. i'll investigate as The End. thought about waiting until after pregame but there's really no reason not to claim now.

I feel more good about this claim than uneasy. I've been a Miller before, and I know personally, claiming that early is most helpful to the town.

So while flavor or mechanics do not reflect alignment here; I like what I'm seeing from

Chara

.

hey, let's everybody all claim how they get mana! that's a great idea.

To my understanding, I have a

very inconsistent

way of acquiring mana. But primarily, two ways:

1)

Not using my Planeswalker ability

2)

I target someone with my Planeswalker ability. For 2 phases, I gain Mana the same way they would, and I gain their abilities. I can only do this once per dayphase.

I'm literally a temporary copy-cat.

i'm a miller. i'll investigate as The End.

You're the me this game!
...Except you'll actually be nightkilled rather than be taken to 3p lylo.
(That being said, I anticipate being dead before lylo this game, not by lynch.)

Pretty sure most people read their abilities and thought the same thing.

Trying to townblock on page 5 feels kinda insane to me.

I read the whole thread but most of it felt pretty meaningless. I'll be back when we can vote.

predit: oh look its mastina. looking forward to finally playing a game with you.

No response about Mastina's claim, though? ...Because it's affected by votes based on what she's stated.

[Taly]

To my understanding, I have a very inconsistent way of acquiring mana. But primarily, two ways:

1) Not using my Planeswalker ability

2) I target someone with my Planeswalker ability. For 2 phases, I gain Mana the same way they would, and I gain their abilities. I can only do this once per dayphase.

I'm literally a temporary copy-cat.

i was......... kidding, Taly. did you miss my other posts on why claiming is anti-town?

I don't think so?

it's not a blessing and a hindrance. it's just a hindrance.

At most, my abilities wouldn't be original or stagnant ones. I'm not expecting other people to claim this early, especially after mine.

I figured if I claimed and stated that then it would avoid confusion later in the game when abilities and roles would likely be discussed.

[Taly]

it informs scum. it would be fine to claim later and confusion would easily be avoided that way.
anyway, it doesn't matter now.

this is my last, desperate call into an uncaring universe: please stop claiming, everyone.

Good thing I haven’t claimed then. Although this brings back memories. Please tell me I wasn’t townreading it too soon? I townread everything before this post.

Claiming also informs town, I'll add.

Also,

OnTheMark

, you state that claiming is bad in a post after this, but you seem happy that you didn't claim before

Chara

said not to.

Were you going to claim?

To my understanding, I have a very inconsistent way of acquiring mana. But primarily, two ways:

1) Not using my Planeswalker ability

2) I target someone with my Planeswalker ability. For 2 phases, I gain Mana the same way they would, and I gain their abilities. I can only do this once per dayphase.

I'm literally a temporary copy-cat.

i was......... kidding, Taly. did you miss my other posts on why claiming is anti-town?

I don't think so?

it's not a blessing and a hindrance. it's just a hindrance.

At most, my abilities wouldn't be original or stagnant ones. I'm not expecting other people to claim this early, especially after mine.

I figured if I claimed and stated that then it would avoid confusion later in the game when abilities and roles would likely be discussed.

I agree with Chara’s point even though something pinged me. Your claim gives me scum pings too. Don’t know why yet. Since your claim is out there can you expand more on why you claimed?

1)

Me claiming would definitely strike conversation and get reads going, especially in engaging me. I think it progressed the game a bit, and seeing people's reactions helped me start forming my own reads.

Plus, conversation now could be referenced later to help game solve.

2)

My ability is both changing and replaceable, so I didn't see a huge reason to stay quiet about it in the first place.

Once I understood how it worked, I thought making it clear would help dissolve uncertainty later in the game. Furthermore, even though I expected people not to claim - specifically massclaim like what

Chara

didn't want, I wanted to see if anyone would.

I'll have another reason to give if I'm not mislynched or NKed.

I also might be forgetting a reasoning, honestly. Claiming sounded much better in my head.

Yeah. It’s a tactic I have seen from good scum. State the truth (claiming is a bad idea) in an emotional way but not delve into why they claimed. I have seen it way too many times and it made me flash to that. You’re probably still town but I think I am pinged by it not digging deeper. Does this make sense?

Did anything about my claim post come across to you as emotional? .________.

ah, i thought you were making a vague meta point.
yes, that makes sense.

Taly did explain why they claimed, though.

pedit: i wouldn't really feel strongly about it. Taly hasn't done anything to be townread for.

Taly gave a reason yes.

However it feels manufactured.

Specifically because they have two short posts one of which claiming confusion so they had read. So if they were confused about your original post and saw no one was claiming why didn’t they ask you how you felt or try to ascertain what was going on. By asking Taly why I can see if the slot was not reading as indicated before or they were and chose to delay posting content.

To be honest, I couldn't tell how serious

Chara

was when I ISOed him, but even without his posts, I was waffling on whether or not to claim. I decided to claim based on reasoning above.

Like they had to have read to respond to later posts but at the same time are confused yet never ask a single question? It feels newb scum to me but they could be newb town. I want help in sorting Taly.

Hi Random. Hope to hear from Shiro soon.

I wouldn't call myself a noob. This is my 2nd game in 2 years, but I'm not new to Mafia.

Also, what are your reads at the moment?

Furthermore notice how your name is in bold?

I’d take a bet that Taly is going to claim copy catting your abilities to get out of bad check.

Taly, care to prove me wrong and never copycat Chara?

You're quick to make assumptions based off little information.

1)

Read my other game posts. I

ALWAYS

bold a player's full name when I reference them. It means absolutely nothing. Bolding helps me organize my posts so I don't forget something when I'm typing them, and when I'm reading through a thread, having something in bold catches my attention.

I want people to know I'm mentioning them, because they're relevant to my posts.

2)

I have a loose strategy for how I'll use my ability. If I learn something that could help Town later on, I'd probably let someone know if I'm targeting them. If I'm uncertain about a claim, or a specific mechanic on someone is noted, then I may target for clarity.

3)

What gives you the impression I'd copycat

Chara

? Also, what makes me scum if I did target him?

4)

You're telling me to promise to never use my ability on someone I have a vague read on at the moment. I don't get the defense on

Chara

here. Why is it wrong for me to use my ability in the first place?

Mastina's claim is anti-town but NAI?...

Yes, why do you say it like it's not? You can do anti town actions with good intent in mid or you can just be scum who did something anti town the overall thing is anti town I believe her emotions were genuine when she said her power was "game breaking" for scum or town? We don't know. Also how the fuck do people have so many reads. Oh the fact I don't have Chara as obv town yet makes it highly likely their scum btw but take that with a grain of salt
~Maki

I usually associate the word "anti-town" with "scum".

And I asked that because I wanted you to elaborate on your view with them because I wasn't sure about that when I ISOed you yesterday.

Is your read on

Chara

based on meta?

So, Taly claimed a high utility scum role. That eh...makes me torn, for obvious reasons. I get that the roles were made before alignments were assigned, but the act of claiming such a role is *much* better for scum than town(since Taly just outed an investigative and can no longer catch scum lying using their role).

:-/

Also, haven't heard from Drixx.

-Cerb

I can still catch people lying.

Why are you saying that my claim is a high-utility scum role? Roles =/= alignments here.

I wish people would actually talk with me instead of at me.

And I think one of Taly or RR is scum. Not necessarily an either or just at least one. I don’t like what Cerb did there.

I also wish people would explain Tabor to me and talk about how Taly doesn’t interact with recent stuff.

I'll talk to you.

But why is

ReasonablyRational

? Was it because he didn't have a set stance on it?

The claim is bad imho for two reasons.
1) Investigative (good point)
2) Taly has demonstrated reading in which no one claimed and then so Taly would see the thread ignored it or read it as a joke yet hasn’t read the thread to be confused. Taly can’t have read and not read the thread. That is where I am confused.

1)

Last night when I said I was confused about the conversation, 217, I was referring to the back-and-forth that you and

Maid Cafe

because I skimmed through it and I should've been more clear about my confusion.

2)

This is directed to

Maid Cafe

as well, I couldn't respond too quickly after my claim post earlier today because I'm a full-time college student.

My tires went flat earlier, and I had classes. So this is the first time today, other than getting out of bed this morning, where I had time to read the thread and further elaborate on my thought process.

~~~

I'll do some rereading and do an ISO or two later tonight or tomorrow morning.

[Taly]

CLAIM:

Alisae

and I had our roles CHANGED. We have this odd dual role:

Pacificist: ((What We Don't Have Right Now))

- You must sign ALL hydra posts. EACH hydra head has their OWN vote.

Genocide: ((What We're Plagued With))

- The

LOWER

posting head, is the

ONLY

head that can post.

My vote is worth HALF A NORMAL VOTE.

As of right now, I am the

ONLY

head to post

AT ALL

. Any and all post's by

Alisae

will be removed. I have gotten mod-confirmation that I can post from my MAIN account. This happened because

Alisae

had more posts than I do.

Remember, I am

Taly

, but I am playing as

PURPLE HEART

.

I have no clue what else has or may have happened.

Alisae

and I were going to use

Learn From The Past

; a spellcard that allowed us see

ALL

spells that were used that night. Now, we cannot continue with that plan. It would cost

1 BLUE mana, and 2 of any other color to cast.

We also had 2 other spells:
- (Enchantment) Quiet Contemplation:

After we use a non-Creature card in conjunction with this; this allowed us to remove ANY and ALL voting abilities from a creature in play. It would've costed us

1 BLUE mana, and 2 of any other color to cast.

- (Creature) Clever Impersonator:

We used this on a Spell Card in play, and we copy that spell for own use. It would've costed us

2 BLUE mana, or 2 of any other color to cast.

If we do not use our copy abilities, we gain 2 White Mana, and 1 Blue Mana.

I'm 100% certain that scum powerplayed that quintuple vote on a creature to hammer

Shining Dreamers

, TO scumpaint the people and hydra's on the wagon.

OnTheMark's

death, followed by our conflict late D1 solidifies this to me. Furthermore,

Alisae

and I believe that it's possible

OnTheMark

was killed for knowing who played that artifact.

Please, I'm asking everyone to be patient with me. There's 2 heads, and I'm having to speak for both of us. If anyone has any questions, I'll gladly answer, but I'm filtering information through two mediums while formulating my own.

[Taly]

I AM CALLING FOR A MASSCLAIM FOR ANYONE WHO HAD ROLE CHANGES.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Both

Alisae

and I concur on this vote.

[Taly]

To mine and Alisae's understanding, our roles will

NOT

stop changing.

Chara

, flavor

DOES

matter because like

MathBlade

, we have

WHITE and BLUE mana

.

[Taly]

My power went out!!! Im on Mobile.

Alisae: Our roles aren't permanent and are always everchanging due to the "THAT'S THE EXPRESSION OF SOMEONE WHO'S DIED TWICE IN A ROW." Mechanic. This is the affects of that mechanic, so we are likely not keeping our roles, hence why we should massclaim our MtG roles and our Undertale roles, we are likely not keeping these roles.Our flavor for MtG is Narset Transcendant and our flavor for Undertale for Pacafist is Dogamy & Dogressa. Our flavor for Genocide is just Dogamy

OnTheMark had White and Blue mana JUST LIKE US.

There's NO reason NOT to claim!! This mechanic was stated in POST 8.

Chara, my posts are directed at everyone. But I think Alise wanted you to see that.

I'm vaguely skimming the thread atm as I have to let all of you know this info

[Taly]

Both: We don't keep roles overnight!!

Alisae: BYE FELICIA. ((in my words))

[Taly]

Both: We don't keep roles overnight!!

Alisae: BYE FELICIA. ((in my words))

Ali meant this to Cerb

[Taly]

yes we do. Mark died as both their Magic role and their Undertale role.
our plane didn't change until daystart.
night powers work.

Both: Night powers are kept and that's true.

Alisae: It really shouldn't prevent MtG claims. It should effect undertale claims.

[Taly]

I'm having to filter and relay information

While still figuring this out myself and confirming stuff with Alisae

Alisae and I are literally 1 functional person right now.

[Taly]

I don't feel like massclaiming rn

My votes not moving here, you wolf.

Massclaims are what is keeping everyone well understood on what is happening in the game

[Taly]

I'm having to filter and relay information

While still figuring this out myself and confirming stuff with Alisae

Alisae and I are literally 1 functional person right now.

listen, i've been in your exact position three times now.

If you have then claim

[Taly]

Cerb I am sorry you want to replace out then. I liked playing eith you

Alisae: This makes me him locktown. It's understandable after plans and plans are ruined.

Honestly, I'm so much more invested in this game.

[Taly]

I don't feel like massclaiming rn

My votes not moving here, you wolf.

Massclaims are what is keeping everyone well understood on what is happening in the game

Wow what the hell, did someone kill your family? Why are you so pissed at me?

The fact that you're taking ALL of my posts to the most extreme degree possible confirms my scumread on you

Listen instead of scumpainting me and devaluing my thoughts!

[Taly]

The more Gamma resists massclaiming makes me and Ali want it to happen more

[Taly]

Power's back.

I'm coming for you

Gamma

Prepared to get Taly-1v1 WALLED.

Beeboy:

BOTH

Alisae

and I think you're the most competent person in this game.

[Taly]

Tonereading. It's fantastic isn't it?

reading into someone's tone and concluding they're personally pissed at you is silly. she just thinks your scum. i felt your reaction was unpleasant and i hope we can have a fun, respectful game. that's all. :>

How about the fact they said I was correct about them being pissed?

Power's back.

I'm coming for you

Gamma

Prepared to get Taly-1v1 WALLED.

Beeboy:

BOTH

Alisae

and I think you're the most competent person in this game.

If you wall every time you come at me I'm replacing out, I can't be fucking bothered to deal with what I did in Newbie 1734 with Zyf d1

I sincerely do not understand why you keep insisting that I'm pissed at you, while you completely sidestep my attempts of engagement.

You're doing it again. I never said I was pissed, and I am not now.

Taly get Ali to explain to Chara what kind of approach he'd take as scum this game for me.

~B

....Pending...

My normal posting schedule is fucked. As is

Alisae's

.

The more Gamma resists massclaiming makes me and Ali want it to happen more

I said it

once

. How is this statement sensible at all?

If you read any of my opening posts this game when you wouldn't have stated this.

Taly didn't say that.

pedit: i already asked Alisae for that information! i know he's reading.

What would you like

Alisae

to tell you again? I'm going 90 MPH atm.

[Taly]

Alisae:

I would take an approach that involved me not breaking this keyboard

[Taly]

I don't feel like massclaiming rn

My votes not moving here, you wolf.

Massclaims are what is keeping everyone well understood on what is happening in the game

Wow what the hell, did someone kill your family? Why are you so pissed at me?

The fact that you're taking ALL of my posts to the most extreme degree possible confirms my scumread on you

Listen instead of scumpainting me and devaluing my thoughts!

@Chara this, even though I never fucking did this

You're trying to alter the interpretation of my thoughts and reasonings because:

1)

You're saying I'm pissed when I'm not.

2)

You're using exaggerated language to prove your points.

3)

You're not engaging on why you think massclaiming is bad, and are pushing it away by saying

"you don't feel like it"

.

[Taly]

Alisae:

*with a hammer and an xbox controller after furiously hammering the xbox controller and throwing it on the ground, it would not break, so here is the same hammer and a keyboard*

Gamma Emerald

I'm engaging with you RIGHT now.

Alisae:

I would take an approach that involved me not breaking this keyboard

:<

i don't want to be like this, but it's perfectly possible for you to be genuinely upset/emotional as scum, and i know you're aware of this.
i'm more referring to your actual play.

for the 1000th time.

Stop misrepping me.

I am not angry.

Alisae

is not angry.

STOP.

Gamma Emerald.
Almost50.
Baku and Munna.
Nacy Drew

~B

Let's talk about those 4 people.

~B

You guys aren't very fun.

I'll get to this when I have time to think and post more independently.

[Taly]

for the 1000th time. Stop misrepping me.

I am not angry.

Alisae is not angry.

STOP.

i didn't say you were.
i'm talking to Alisae. i didn't say e was angry either.

Oh sorry, I thought this was

Gamma

.

[Taly]

Chara:

The hammer/xbox pic is a metaphor from

Alisae

, on why she's Town.

Alisae

would not be this frustrated as scum.

~~

I'm not upset with anyone. I want to play this game, and I hope nobody is taking any of this personally.

[Taly]

What would Alisae do here as scum.
You keep saying what Alisae would not do as scum and that isn't what Chara wants to know and it isn't going to get them on the same page as you.

~B

Don't trust

Nancy/Micc

slot, they didn't really do anything yet aside from being "Hi, what's this?"

Almost50

is still a question mark to me, but I townread him D1. Need to think on that more.

I'll review

Baku/Munna's

vote on

Gamma

soon, I haven't townread them yet.

Not a fan of majority of

Gamma's

responses so far.

For saying you wanted to engage with me you haven't address my actual reasonable response to you Taly

Quote it and I'll happily respond in hopefully a timely manner, likely with

Alisae's

input too.

[Taly]

... I think massclaiming isn't good for this setup, because if we claim all our powers we basically show every single possible hole scum could slip through. I guess I'd be amenable to massclaiming for the previous one though since I don't see it being that bad even if we do return to it, since it will likely be a while if that's the case.

This specifically

This is directed to everyone, too.

1)

Alisae

and I have talked, and said that MtG claims are much better than Undertale claims right now. Our MtG roles no longer apply in the game. So why not claim that at least? It gives perspective.

2)

Claims now may influence future claims pre and post flips. The information for town outweighs potential risks to individuals. At the very least, people know the direction and mindset of what people are doing.

3)

Our roles now are going to change. It's fully elaborated in the mechanics. There's no reason not to claim at some point, and withholding information BENEFITS scum because they have information that townies don't.

I've never replaced out of a game, and Varsoon assures me that I will enjoy the setup as a whole, even if things aren't as I expected.

Because of this, there is now a non-zero, rather than zero, percent chance of me staying in this game.

I'm still really unhappy and don't actually want to play right now, but we'll see.

-Cerb

Please talk when you're feeling better. I like playing with you, but I respect your feelings and decision.

~~~~

Can you guys get along?
I am siding with Cerb, I am starting to not care.

~B

:<

i'm going to take a break from this until Saturday. i still care, a lot, but this is dampening my mood. see you all soon.

pedit: i'm not taking anything personally, i just want everyone to remember this is a game.

Would

Scum-Alisae

go as far as this to emphasize her meta-point?



She's actively buzzing to have her voice heard in conversation. While

Alisae

may get upset as scum, but as scum, she doesn't NEED to go to this level.

Plus,

Alisae

and I are posting our own raw, specific thoughts. Nobody else has or could've influenced them.

If you want to talk more meta, then evaluate me.

I promise the 2 things, Alisae is town and we are always lynching scum today.

~B

Alisae

told me to sheep you.

While that's not in my personal way of playing the game; I want to work with you closely, and that's by communication.

I'll reevaluate those 4 people you listed soon, and I'll encourage

Alisae

to do the same.

[Taly]

Can we just get my answers from D1? Who else was in red hood? Did they claim to each other?

I still wanna lynch Micc.

I don't see any MtG claims today, nor do I see any point in doing so. We could wind up back at MTG.

~Titus

I highly, HIGHLY doubt we will wind back up at MtG.

Alisae

expresses the same sentiment.

Alisae:

A.

Varsoon

said he has wanted to attempt to mod multiple setups in one before, so he's like to make other setups appear

B.

If we could wind up in MtG V might have kept those mechanics up

Also,

Alisae

says I cannot be replaced, not sure about her reasoning. Not like I'm going to stop activity now, though.

We both want to see a

Pacifist

massclaim. Read my claim post at the beginning of this day for what I'm referring to. 3111

Do you want me to claim my MtG role now? Because at this point I'm actually willing to. I was only opposed to claiming Undertale role, and I saw you trying to tie those togehter earlier.
PEdit: I think if we do go back it will be much later

Yeah, claim.

Okay, so nothings changed from the rules for the M:tG setup as far as the likelihood of roles changing etc is concerned.

Considering nobody previously brought up the possibility of things changing this way, even those who have stated they had prior knowledge of Varsoon floating a similar idea to this before, everyone who now suddenly believes we should mass claim(read, the PH slot), needs to explain what the difference is between yesterday and today, because that particular mechanic certainly isn't different, it's just reflavored.

-Cerb

Alisae

knows this better than I do, so I want to make sure I'm verified in my thoughts and I'll get back to you on this.

[Taly]

Golly, you must be so confused.
Someone ought to teach you how things work around here!

VOTECOUNT 2.01

Gamma Emerald (2.5):

Maid Cafe, Taly, baku and munna

Purple Heart (1):

Reasonably Rational

Not Voting (12):

Iconeum, Chara, Creature, Bronya Zaychik, Almost50, SnarkySnowman, Gamma Emerald, Skybird, Nancy Drew 39, Venmar, Dunnstral

With 15 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2018-04-06 20:00:00)

The current playthrough is on the GENOCIDE ROUTE.
Skybird is a non-legal target for actions.
Almost50 is unable to vote or use any abilities, including factional abilities/kills (if any).

Pointing out the confirmation of my claim, here.

I'm Purple Heart, but I'm voting as Taly, and I'm only worth .5 a vote.

[Taly]

In Varsoon's defense, he told us about the importance of flavor if claimed in this game. Flavor =/= Alignment, -COLOR- is apart of flavor and works toward helping create knowledge about the game.

This is why claims are important. It's vital, to a degree, on understanding the progression of the game and people's motivations by this.

Also, I want to reiterate this from the signup thread:
Do not expect that all the Spell Cards in this game reflect their real-game counterparts.
I've mostly tried to render the Magic the Gathering mechanics as Mafia mechanics, but some spells may have different mana costs, type, or effect than what you expect.
In short, flavor knowledge will not help you solve this game unless players claim their spell card flavors and their spell card flavors happen to match the real card flavors.
Also, as a very important heads up, a large part of this game design will include players gaining advantage over others if they have knowledge of the setup flavor.
For that reason, claiming flavor may have an actual mechanical detriment to your win condition.
Finally, Flavor has no bearing on alignment. All alignments were generated AFTER roles were created.

TL;DR: Flavor can, to an extent, be gamed, but only IF CLAIMED. Flavor =/= Alignment.

If you have any flavor questions, feel free to ask in this thread or via PM.

Honestly, I don't quite get the adverse reaction to the gamestate changing. I feel like we were hinted this.

Taly if you post 100 more times and overtake alisae do you lose your ability to post?

The Genocide Role does not state this.

And I asked, and it's a mod-confirmed no.

So for this dayphase at least, I am stuck as myself, posing as a hydra.

Can anyone kill or get results in the day?

~B

If anyone has a role that resembles

ReasonablyRational

from last dayphase, I want someone to ask this.

@Taly, Part of my reservations with massclaim are the very people who want the claim are not doing it. I'm very anti massclaim in 90+ percent of situations. There's no guarantee we don't go back and I don't want to help scum. The only things I'd find useful for now are the things I asked about.

~Titus

Alisae

and I do not think we will return to MtG set-up. This does not sound like a

Varsoon

way of doing things.

Plus, it's possible that scum has CONTROL on the plane shifts, it may be limited, but it's possible.

Claiming is NOT for set-up spec. It is purely to weed out town motivations and scum motivations.

At LEAST claim MtG roles.

To get specific, what about the 4 names I mentioned earlier in the thread.

~B

What about my thoughts on those 4 names?

So is this... a normal thing for Varsoon games? I feel like it is. How long till it's back to MtG?

lol,

Alisae

and I are pretty solid that we don't think it will change.

My Character is Venser. My colors are Blue and White, and I had a day power to gain blue mana and a night power that could gain white mana. I could guess someone's color identity and if I got it right I would get one blue mana, up to four times a day. I believe brass while he was around checked Taly with pure blue and came up negative, and after brass left I checked Maid Cafe for White only and White/Green on Micc, and near end of the day I checked RR for Blue/White, all three of mine also came up negative. My night ability is I track up to four players and if all of them act I get two white mana. I targeted Chara, Maid Cafe, Bronya, and Almost50, trying to basically get a good baseline for future uses on who might have actions, and I got no action on all of them. So all of them are cleared from last night's kill I guess, and that can't be the scumteam.

Explain why you tracked who you tracked.

[Taly]

Er idk how to say this without it sounding like a fake claim.
But I kinda have 2 guilties atm lol.

~B

Alisae

and I are losing our shit atm.

We trust it.

[Taly]

Cerb

, do you need a hug?

I need to catch 4 scum to win the game not 2.

~B

Could you out the guilties though? It may clear up more than waiting for other scumreads.

[Taly]

I need to eat, shower, and live guys.

I'll come back with both Taly and Alisae thoughts.

[Taly]

Yes, and you just fucked catching the other scum today, based on their associatives with your guilties, by stating it outright for no fucking reason 4 hours into the phrase.

-Cerb

Sorry I have literally 0 idea how to approach this day phase when like none of the town want to cooperate.

~B

*Raises hand, and points to self with another. Picks up a sign that says "let's talk" and then flails arms at the playerlist*

((Honestly, last post here.))

[Taly]

Spoiler: My Posting Habits, and How That's Fucked Right Now

By myself, I have a system where I typically make 1-2 heavy-content posts in my games per day.

In this hydra, it's becoming more like a bunch of conversational posts, until I say

"I have life stuff, bye for a few hours."

Specifically since I'm the one posting for us.

This is usually NAI for me.

Since my play right now is different than usual, I wanted to make this distinction. I will say

Town-Taly

is all about communication and

Scum-Taly

diverts it away from himself.

Becasue this is meta-talk in a sense, I fully welcome someone talking to me about this, and asking about my games. I'm happy to send links.

that face when taly starts crumbling down your alisae townread

taly's push on gamma makes me hesitate. feels like an agenda-pushed read, taly's really just yelling gamma down for refusing to agree to a massclaim, which advocating for as he is here reads as super awkward since i don't think anyone here really knows what is going on and taly is giving me the impression that he somehow does?

taly can you lay out for me where alisae sits on the gamma read

Literally,

Alisae

is the person telling me to PUSH

Gamma

. She's a driving force just as well as I am.

We

BOTH

scumread him, and we

BOTH

believe that MtG claims are highly effective right now.

[Taly]

Yes, and you just fucked catching the other scum today, based on their associatives with your guilties, by stating it outright for no fucking reason 4 hours into the phrase.

-Cerb

Sorry I have literally 0 idea how to approach this day phase when like none of the town want to cooperate.

~B

You should have shut up until everyone spoke if you wanted to get more information and people weren't cooperating, instead of just saying that to what is effectively no benefit.

Yes, you might get some reactions, but it would be way stronger to specifically push people you suspect of being teammates of your confirmed scum to condemn said scum, to either strengthen or weaken your scumread on them, at the least.

Now you can't do that nearly as effectively.

-Cerb

You do know

Maid Cafe

was also referencing you when she was talking about town not cooperating, right?

Please, come back when you're more willing to game solve. :/

Explain why you tracked who you tracked.

I didn't have any thoughts on who might have a visiting power so I just scattershotted to learn as many as possible.

Alisae

really dislikes this post, and I'm not sure about it.

This seems pretty random.

1)

You had no reads to try and emphasize here? Even out of that pool of people you say you tracked?

2)

Nobody you wanted to confirm who could've been lying?

3)

Also, what do you mean by visiting power? What is the relevance here for you?

I mean I have to do the following things.

All within 48 hours.
Get my town reads to cooperate.
Sell you on my reads being correct.
Make sure people don't waste day actions.

Like idk it's hard to play this correctly.

~B

If you have two guilties, Cerb is correct that you should have waited. Since you did not, I'd recommend creating two pools that contain your guilties (could be 1 1 or 0 2) to test reactions on lynching.

~Titus

I can see the value in doing this, but that could paint townplayers unfavorably and create WIFOM. Can you explain this a bit more?

Also, I don't like how

Nancy

looks, but she's done nothing yet. Pushing there at the moment seems fruitless.

Gamma

has posted things that have pinged both heads of this hydra.

@Venmar

Alisae:

you should also explain to venmar that we have an idea what is going on because we're reading varsoon's mechanic posts and it explains what exactly is going on in those

^^ This is for

Drixx

, too... and honestly everyone else.

[Taly]

@Taly, By dividing up players into pools but leaving the possibility as to a pool being completely innocent, scum may try to FoS an innocent pool. Or, if they hard bus, they'll lock themselves out of mls for later. It's a method of forcing associatives and getting talking.

@Maid, I'll have my hydra partner do more detail on each name in the list.

Both Alisae and I agree with this method in helping force associatives.

But the hesitation, is that if we don't lynch soon, abilities will be triggered and that could cause more issues.

That's why she wants me to to help out guilties, and why claiming MtG roles now is what I'm pushing.

Alisae:

what I want is whatever

Bee

wants.

@cerb/snarky did your lie detect give you mana?

~B

I did not have a lie detect, and as I previously stated, my ability did not generate mana.

@Taly: I'm well aware that I'm among those they found uncooperative, which is immaterial to the salience of my point that there were plenty of people who hadn't spoken yet, who could easily be among those who'd be willing to follow their lead.

Alisae, I'm also reading the mechanics post, clearly, and they don't support the suppositions you're making, in the context of the previous mechanics posts.

-Cerb

Elaborate on your view of the mechanics post.

So 15 minutes before the day ended yesterday we were put into a hood with the Baku slot. Which I don't think is a coincidence given how short 15 minutes is.

We think that putting us in a hood was a requirement for Baku to get mana, kinda like how Micc needed to grant tokens in order to gain mana so Baku added us to a hood in order to cast the U/G sword to quick hammer SD.

They probably didn't have much of a regard for how obvious that was because we were probably supposed to die but since Mathblade got a guilty on them they didn't have the ability to kill us.

Also Baku claimed there role was U/G which is the exact color of the sword and by play they are being kinda evasive in regards to the thread so they aren't really town by play either.

~B

This and 3280 are reaffirming a lot of me and

Alisae's

scumreads.

Maid Cafe, if you vote on the Baku-Munna Wagon, I

WILL

follow. Alisae has permitted be to do this under that condition.

Also, Alisae agrees with your readslist, but still thinks Creature is town.
I'd also say to move Nancy town a tier.
I don't know about Almost50.

[Taly]

DOWN* a tier. Not town, in regards to Nancy's read.

[Taly]

Roles created before alignments.

To be clear, all roles for Undertale Mafia were made AFTER alignments were assigned.

Why would B&M hood you when they could hood their teammates instead? Other than a clause specifically saying the ability could only be used on people who you did not already share a PT with.

-Cerb

Alisae:

Easy. They didn't think about it.

Alisae:

I mean I am interpretting that mechanic as "each day phase there the game/theme changes and we play a different setup"

[Taly]

Alisae:

shut the fuck up and sheep beeboy thank you

My words would've been nicer with kitty pics. But yeah.

[Taly]

I don't know about Almost50.

I feel like no one is going to ever lynch A50 this game lol.

I mean, when/if my scumreads are validated and flip scum, I'll probably be more open to this.

But personally, I don't know at the moment.

@Cerb

I'm not going to continue discussing this. Neither head sees the point with what you're bringing up here.

Varsoon, can you clarify what exactly changes with each dayphase?

[Taly]

That's not quite an answer, though?

[Taly]

The answer to your question, Taly, will be no. Because I literally told him I'd replace out if shit changed again the same way, and he said he hoped I'd stay, and couldn't tell me anything more.

-Cerb

Alisae:

okay then we have 2 different interpretations. You can have your interpretation and I can have mine. They can both exist

[Taly]

In post 3254, Gamma Emerald wrote:

In post 3240, Taly wrote:
Explain why you tracked who you tracked.


I didn't have any thoughts on who might have a visiting power so I just scattershotted to learn as many as possible.



Alisae really dislikes this post, and I'm not sure about it.

This seems pretty random.

1) You had no reads to try and emphasize here? Even out of that pool of people you say you tracked?

2) Nobody you wanted to confirm who could've been lying?

3) Also, what do you mean by visiting power? What is the relevance here for you?

1) No good PR reads, yes.
2) I didn't recall any claims of night visiting PRs.
3) Visiting power equals anything that can be tracked. If I'd suspected someone of of having one and figured they's use it I'd likely have tracked only them to get my 2 white mana. But since I had no ideas there I just figured it would be smarter to track the max and look to get results to use on later nights to gain mana.

1)

Why track PR reads and not scumreads?

2)

How would claims have changed your targets?

3)

So the amount of people you track changes the mana you get from it?

That's not quite an answer, though?

The conversation continued, with me lambasting him because I would have been happy playing a game advertised as having changing roles, but because it wasn't advertised that way I felt like I had something very enjoyable taken from me(not to mention all the time and effort Drixx and I always invest into figuring out how to best use our ability), and he apologized for things not being the way I expected, and for his inability to advertise the game in a way that accurate reflected what would happen for design reasons.

That last part is why he won't answer your questions. You can always ask though. ^^ I just already did effectively, so, *shrug*.

-Cerb

I'm sorry that you feel this way, but there may have been miscommunication here.

That's why I posed an in-thread question, because

Alisae

has a very set interpretation of the mechanics, and based on what I've read myself, I agree with her.

[Taly]

@Cerb

I'm going to talk with

Alisae

about what

Varsoon

said and I'll likely give a response.

Also, while you keep your vote on me, can you explain why you want to

Chara

to elaborate on

Me/Alisae

being scum...?

1)

Why track PR reads and not scumreads?

2)

How would claims have changed your targets?

3)

So the amount of people you track changes the mana you get from it?

Because I wanted the mana, tracker is actually more useful lategame. Claims would have changed my targets by making me go for them specifically. I always get 2 mana if I get them all right or none if any are wrong, but I had no leads so I wanted to get as many leads as possible.

I still don't get tracking PR reads over scumreads. From the perspective on D1, everyone likely had some form of role that could be used. What "leads" were you hoping to find?

But several people did claim in D1. To my understanding,

((point out if I'm wrong))

Maid Cafe

,

Almost50

,

Chara

, and

Bronya

never ability claimed.

okay, so idk what im at right now with this game

so let me say where i'm at right now with this game; here's where i'm at: i'm kind of lost. my #3272 came from a point of frustration based on the game changing flavours, and after recollection i'm actually still fine with alisae's slot, though i'm still definitely not happy with pushing a massclaim this early.

i find myself agreeing, yet being at conflict with my townreads. i think maid cafe and purple heart are solving this game, but i disagree with some of their reads that they are pushing hard right now, and by reads i really just mean the singular read of gamma. i am purely, and entirely, solely townreading gamma off gut. im definitely not qualified to make this read since my meta with gamma isn't THAT long, and i had troubles reading him in some games, but my honest to god, twitch, blind gut reaction to his posting here is that he is town. i still think gamma's posting is just like what i remembered it to be from valentines mafia, and i also townread gamma's frustration and exasperation since it's again something i associate with his town-range.

that said:

Gamma Emerald.
Almost50.
Baku and Munna.
Nacy Drew

~B

i think this is a good place to start. im still not sold on the micc slot, i still think micc's play was genuine though nacy drew is nulling the slot up by being, well, absent, though i'm still not ready to lynch the slot. i can definitely get behind baku and almost50 though since i think a50 is missing the direction and purpose i associate with his townplay, his play just feels apathetic and meandering, and my impression of baku's play as-so-far is just doing some very wolfy popins and doing some scummy posturing (their positioning regarding chara's claim mainly comes to mind).

vote: baku

^ i think this is the vote to go with today i think

Me and Claire decided claiming this was correct. (lol day roleblocker if thats a thing).

We can put 3 people in a hood RBing all of them.

We kinda want to use this to win the game on the spot.

~B

nutty. i think lynching baku and putting a50/gamma/?? in the neighborhood is the right play here. i'm more interested in testing gamma via the rb than lynching him to be honest.

Alisae:

I really do not think that we're going to be in the MtG setup again, but if people want to wait ONE day to prove me wrong then I guess I'll let people do that

wow that case is bad
like holy shit bad
i sent in the action to make the hood quite a bit before the hammer but varsoon wasn't online at the time so the action got buffered
the reason i hadn't used it yet was because i was waiting for shiro to come around and discuss who to hood.

What was the point in hooding

MC

?

and a good half of Purple Heart scum (half, not all) had to do with them being responsible for or getting their team to make that hammer. i don't know what to make of Almost claiming it here

exactly

, but he's town for doing so.

....Waiting for the associatives....

[Taly]

Almost50

, can you vote to prove that it wasn't stolen?

[Taly]

Taly talk to Alisae, I think the plan for today is.
I RB, Cerb, Vanmar and Baku.

We then lynch Gamma and A50 can't act.
Then trackers/RBers hop onto Nancy.
But if I snapped the entire team scum can't even kill kek.

~B

We have been talking ^.^

We are both fine with this plan.

[Taly]

Taly talk to Alisae, I think the plan for today is.
I RB, Cerb, Vanmar and Baku.

We then lynch Gamma and A50 can't act.
Then trackers/RBers hop onto Nancy.
But if I snapped the entire team scum can't even kill kek.

~B

Actually

Beeboy

,

Alisae

thinks

Venmar

is town, and we both think

Nancy

should be RBed instead of him.

see 3367. can you talk about your Alisae read for me, and the rest?

[Taly]

Taly, for the second time, i am not ignoring your head. i've played scum with Alisae, and Maki was the mod of that game. that's why i'm talking about Alisae and not Taly.

You're not ignoring my head? I couldn't tell.

Alisae:

Just tell

chara

there's nothing i can do to change their mins. Because at this point. They just want me to be scum. So...

Also,

Alisae's

in a hydra, if you didn't think so.

Do you really think someone's meta will be 100% the same in a completely different type of game, and when they're not playing independently?

[Taly]

Do you really think someone's meta will be 100% the same in a completely different type of game, and when they're not playing independently?

no.

Then I don't understand your specific scumread on

Alisae

.

I've lost the point in this conversation.

[Taly]

and because it apparently needs to be said, i don't tunnel. changing my mind is my damn brand. (unless it's a hard townread, then it isn't happening.) the purpose of asking Maki that question specifically is for her to tell me if i'm being dumb or if there might be value to it.

Alisae:

Lol

chara

is tunneling. Like they are trying really hard. But that doesn't change the fact that they are in fact tunneling

btw I did manage to read a bit last game night and from what I did read I feel a little less good about Bronya

Elaborate on this.

[Taly]

Hey guys! It's

Alisae

!

[Taly]

sheep beeboy gogogo

[Taly]

this is ali tho



dont plan to fix this

[Taly]

im town chara

cant help that you want me to be scum

[Taly]

My approach to this role-mechanic and gamestate is being edited right now. I feel like I've been wallpaper. Changing my avvy was to make a satirical joke on the playerlist's response to this hydra, and me playing for 2 people at the moment.

I reread the thread a bit, and I feel like I'm having differing opinions from my other head, and from our collective townreads. And, once again, my townreads are better articulated than my scumreads. Which I don't like.

I cannot see

Almost50's

recent posts come from scum-faking AtE. He also complied with my question that

Alisae

in-part wanted me to pose. 3372 This makes me willing to think that his claims and statements so far were either true or genuine. I will say, I don't quite know why he's feeling so charged in this game, but my gut says it's town and I'm not going to waffle here right now.

I want

Maid Cafe

and any other scumreading

Almost50

to further explain that read to me, if they still have it.

I also second this:

@THE MYSTERY VOTE THIEF OF YESTERDAY: PLEASE AT LEAST CLAIM THAT ACTION. If Ali's assumption we won't go back to that same role again is true then there's absolutely no hard in setting things straight. Thanks in advance.

Spoiler: Why Claiming MtG Is A Great Idea Right Now

Please claim MtG and/or Pacifist Role. 3311 is the Pacifist role.

Reference 3212 for any reasons that aren't stated here.

1)

Our roles are changing consistently. Why even hold back something if we aren't going to keep it? Claims weed out motivations and can help explain people's pushes in a previous dayphase.

2)

Claiming also helps the possibility of catching someone lying about a claim. Right now, half of our discussions and pushes are based on claims without fully stated information. This prevents town from accurately creating a viable plan or understanding of how to effectively work with their roles.

3)

I also get the impression that a lot of people have muddled the waters of some claims or haven't fully understood the effects of them. Having dialogue about roles prevents scum from exacerbating this.

4)

The argument that scum can negate it is extremely flimsy here. Logistically, role-claiming and having a plan to use roles are in towns favor. This is more for current-role claiming, but it serves a purpose to out scum-motivated behaviors later in the game.

5)

AT LEAST, claiming a no-longer-used role benefits town due to an influx of information and clarity. Even if we DO return to the MtG setup,

((which I think is extremely unlikely))

it is common knowledge of what somebody could do, and in this scenario, where things like spellcards can flip the game around, this information is ESSENTIAL.

6)

Flavor is important here. Even if it doesn't mean what our alignments, it directly impacts the mechanics of this game.

I'd like for

Maid Cafe

to out their guilties, I trust their role, and I think their hesitation to out them at the moment while pushing a wagon is more likely coming from town. I know

Alisae

views her as locktown, and I can see that.

I also townread

Broyna Zaychik

. I don't quite get the suspicion there. I'm more familiar with

Titus'

game and I can see her wanting to weigh out potential realities and outing scum motivations as town from her 3278, and none of

Kiana's

posts have stuck out to me as scum, specifically the revote on

Baku

, and her insistence to align with her other head. 3476

Spoiler: Thoughts on Gamma + Reply To Him

I'm becoming conflicted with

Gamma

,

Alisae

is sure this is scum.

Maid Cafe

believes this is scum to my understanding, and while I do a somewhat-weak-scumread on this slot, my gut is telling me to shift focus.

Alisae

wants me to sheep

Bee

, and I'm still not 100% on either path.

It's another reason why I'm frustrated with this game and several players right now.

3179 I don't like how I was made out to be pissy here.

3524 I don't think scattershot on 4 people for tracking is very useful here? Especially since he was looking for PR reads and not scumreads? 3324, even if it was to get mana, I don't think the information he says he has helps enlighten his view or reads.

3381 Instead of him continuing to reply to quotes, I'd like for him to actually "catch up" with this game and make more detailed posts on his view.

btw I did manage to read a bit last game night and from what I did read I feel a little less good about Bronya

Elaborate on this.

Yeah, their interactions with OTM on the few pages I read, given OTM was nightkilled, don't really reflect that well on them imo

Also, can you explain how it doesn't reflect well on them?

[Taly]

maid cafe doesnt have any guilties
their guilties were me and ge
ge they rescinded and they didnt actually have a guilty on me

1)

How do you know this?

2)

Maid Cafe

expressed that she might have misunderstood the mod with a

Gamma Emerald

guilty, so I don't know what you're talking about here? 3280

[Taly]

butliketrustmetho,iconeumshouldguessALLmyguessestovarsoonbecauseithinkiguessedalotanditspossiblyclosetotheanswer

i mean, we didnt have much longer anyway, but still. X_X

~ Taly

[Taly]

this game feels complete even though it technically didnt finish

the team was pegged D2 - if you counted non in-thread discussions between townies, town was on/off cohesive

[Taly]

D1 was the hardest day due to our vote power but not drowning out the townblock.

Ugh yeah the whole town block wanted Mastina

Imagine if Mastina lived

Mastina Alisae/Taly Titus RR town

No scum survives that

I'm flattered. X3

Yeah, sorry for getting tunnely with you D1, the more games I played and remembered how Mafia worked, I figured you were obvtown in retrospect even prior to flip.

It would be nice playing with you again

Coming for

Mastina's

hydra was not a good idea either

[Taly]

I think

Ali/I

are strong together

Hopefully I don't annoy the shit out of them too much tho XP

[Taly]

This was my first return game in over 2 years of Mafia; so I forgot how people typically operate in this game, and that's what led to multiple moments of ignorance on my part.

You're also the second person I've ever hydra'd with

Ali

I wouldn't play the exact same way I did here in another Role Madness game.

[Taly]

I do believe that I'm a big reason why we didn't get lynched D2.

[Taly]

Especially after the

Taly VS OTM

and

Alisae VS SD

1v1s alongside their townflips.

[Taly]

Beeboy

led the town though