Open 729 - Cul de Sac!

[Toranaga]

awoo's posting is horrible.

[Toranaga]

One of my neighbours was replaced

lmao Stefan lied to me, apparently

Did you ask him or did he volunteer the information?

He did mention it on his own

Because if you're lying about you not asking him then you're scum. But basically with your information this makes Stefan my biggest suspect.

Why would town give you info on his neighbors without mentioning it in thread? He didn't give me (his other neighbor) the same information about you. Why is he trusting you in particular as a townie?

More than that in our last game together he was a town neighbor with scum and he was very open in public about what happens in the PT. He also barely talked beyond in my PT beyond greetings and asking me if I'm town and just a few friendly comments regarding our last game together (we are both hoping to play a game together where we're both town as that hasn't happened yet and we like each other)

So good reason to suspect Stefan.
VOTE: Awoo

this is solid.

[Toranaga]

bujaber is definitely town

[Toranaga]

bujaber's suspicion on his neighborhood being outed to scioness reads very pure, even if it was eventually outed as kind of a misunderstanding since stefan disappeared around the time he outed the hood.

[Toranaga]

454: Thanks, I hate it
UNVOTE: VOTE: UglyDuck

I like this from WCG. I also really hate duck's posting there. he is making a convoluted argument out of bujaber asking him to hammer, like he knows arcangel is going to flip town and fears the consequence of being scumread for hammering him.

[Toranaga]

bujaber, unreal seal
scioness, mathdino
wavemode

are my townreads up to post #460

POE awoo, mutant, WCG, uglyduck, mylo

I think mutant looks decently towny at times. mylo I have no idea but everyone townreads them.

WCG might as well just be a newbie who can't really post villagery.

which leaves awoo and uglyduck as my wolf team guess as per #460

and I wanna vote uglyduck.

[Almost50]

454: Thanks, I hate it
UNVOTE: VOTE: UglyDuck

I like this from WCG. I also really hate duck's posting there. he is making a convoluted argument out of bujaber asking him to hammer, like he knows arcangel is going to flip town and fears the consequence of being scumread for hammering him.

He did ask Dino for advice about this one (Dino wasn't active to give one). He said something to the lines of "I am a vote away from being hammered and AA9 has one vote less. Should I even the wagons

despite the fact I TR her?

"

[Toranaga]

Also, you are town so can we stop arguing please?

OK that was pretty bad

addendum to theory: if uglyduck flips scum bujaber is innocent child

I have the strong feeling this is scum talking about scum partner.

[Toranaga]

454: Thanks, I hate it
UNVOTE: VOTE: UglyDuck

I like this from WCG. I also really hate duck's posting there. he is making a convoluted argument out of bujaber asking him to hammer, like he knows arcangel is going to flip town and fears the consequence of being scumread for hammering him.

He did ask Dino for advice about this one (Dino wasn't active to give one). He said something to the lines of "I am a vote away from being hammered and AA9 has one vote less. Should I even the wagons

despite the fact I TR her?

"

that's interesting, but I find it suspicious he is asking mathdino for advice in the neighborhood instead of just posting his heart out in the thread. it feels like the sort of thing scum will do to pocket his neighbour. I can see myself coming up with it so I can appear genuine to mathdino.

[Toranaga]

I wasn't paying attention to 293 and 333
You know I don't consider "not following up" to be alignment indicative
But yeah those 2 are voteworthy alone

VOTE: Scioness

Give me a lurker lynch if this flips green tomorrow pls

boy do I hate this vote.

[Myloninja13]

If you're between Awoo and UglyDuck, I'd be fine to sheep you on Awoo

[Toranaga]

oh crap these awoo's posts in sequence

UNVOTE:

Still waiting for a reason not to lynch AA9

I feel like AA9 is not definitively scum and most likely will flip town, and what does that give us? makes invis/mutant look bad. which is not terrible since last time I checked I want to lynch mutant. and the reason I unvoted is because there was 2 votes from 2 slots I dont like putting aa at L-1. The whole situation is giving me *least charismatic player gets lynched* vibes, and the reason I say "still waiting for a reason not to lynch AA9" is that I'm talking directly to you, AA9, GIVE ME SOME REASON NOT TO LYNCH YOU if you're town.

Despite saying all of that I am not 100% against lynching the slot if it continues to tank and even a town flip gets us something. and also we have time in the day. And maybe I Would lynch uglyduck since that bad post.

also if I seem partner partner with AA9 and AA9 flips scum then 1-1 is a #worth trade LOL

OK lets go over the facts of the case 1 more time

Town: Math / Wingedcat / wave / bujabe / - power gap - / NSG / scion

... 13 people and I can only find 6 comfortable town wtf?? o shit forgot myself that makes 7 looking a bit better now

VOTE: uglyduck

nonsense galore. she unvotes arcangel in one post, then says she is "waiting for a reason not to lynch" arcangel in the next post, and then proceeds to towncase arcangel and vote uglyduck. this progression doesn't work now does it?

[Scioness Sajj]

If you're between Awoo and UglyDuck, I'd be fine to sheep you on Awoo

is it really sheeping if you have a preference?

[Toranaga]

IDK I'm almost halfway through the thread and I'm really tired of reading this and I'm starting to think mathdino might be scum and that's not something I wanna think about today.

[Toranaga]

Awoo if you're townreading me you should be townreading UglyDuck by extension

I would rather have respect than free townreads

mathdino feels exactly like pocketed town hard defending scum because they're towny in the neighborhood.

[Toranaga]

Like you seem like the kind of person that lynches people that I say are town being like "math you can't possibly have good reason to think UglyDuck is town"
And then blames the mislynch on the lynchee instead of taking responsibility for your reads

If I'm right, this is gonna be a long game

If someone is in my top 3 town, people lynching them have no knowledge of my reads accuracy

the kind of player i am is realistic. i think you do have okay reasons to townread uglyduck, i just disagree with them. and even if i did agree with them, i still wouldn't consider them actionable since meta can be very easily manipulated, both purposefully when you know you're playing with people who have seen your scumgame before, and incidentally by getting better at the game of mafia and by random life factors. i would never lock someone away as do-not-lynch purely on the basis of meta

even if i were doing a meta-analysis of uglyduck, what i see is a player who is capable. as scum he knows how to make himself seem like the victim. he knows how to look involved in game strategy, and he knows how to pick apart people's arguments logically. anything i might feel like townreading him for in this game, he has faked in past scumgames. the trap i'd say he falls into (in his past scum games as well as in this game) is classic egocentrism, where pretty much every post he makes is either about himself or his own reads/observations or responding to other people's reads of him. in his town games he spends more time trying to understand other people's points, asking them to explain and elaborate on their own thoughts, on things that aren't about him.

but hey, i could be wrong. maybe he is not manipulating anything and you do indeed see things that i do not see in ugly's past games that indicate he is town. that wouldn't be anyone's fault but my own. but surely you understand my perspective. i've lynched dozens of scum who very good players have sworn to me were town. so forgive me if my skepticism of your certainty comes off as condescension.

in addition, you must also understand that whichever lynch you redirect people to from uglyduck could be, as you yourself said, hilariously wrong. besides that, with only 5 days left in day 1, if the uglyduck wagon were to dissolve at this point we could easily be looking at an 11th hour compromise lynch on whichever player just happens to have low game presence at that moment. at least with uglyduck we are lynching someone with significant player interaction we can analyze, and someone whom a large number of players genuinely scumread, who will thus likely be a liability in the late game (if he does happen to be town).

all of this, to summarily respond to your post as well as UglyDuck's question above, is why i strongly disagree with dissolving the uglyduck wagon at this point. he is, both in my subjective opinion as well as in terms of objective game strategy, the best lynch.

solid post wavemode.

wavemode very strong townread now and I think he is just right about uglyduck as well.

[Toranaga]

ah **** hes just to sweet i cant do it UNVOTE:
VOTE: AA9 lets be honest im torn between two towns idk who mafia is anymore

lolol

I'm hard vetoing this person from continuing to not get lynched.

[Toranaga]

VOTE: awoo

and ffs lynch uglyduck tomorrow.

[Almost50]

Fine..

VOTE: Awoo

[Toranaga]

Like she's scumreading scioness but doing fuckall to actually test that scumread

She's either incompetent at basic townplay this game or I was wrong earlier

oh god such over the top nonsense

why does mathdino have to start getting wolfy all of a sudden?

[Toranaga]

yeah I'm done reading

if this is still happening tomorrow I may find some time but will mostly not be home

[Myloninja13]

VOTE: Awoo

[Awoo]

Shit, I died. I guess being scum partners with 3 different people doesn't help my case any :S but I really don't know what you guys are going to get out of the upcoming town flip.
Like ok, scummy guy flipped town. Then what? I really want to lynch my "partners" right now instead of me.

I'll leave you with this. Special thanks to tornaga for adding some ambiguity to who dies tonight.


{tornaga, bujab}
{a50, scion, lavos}
{mylo}
--- power gap ----
{duck, wave} <-- the "seems town but idk how to feel about them but others say town" pile.
{scion}
(mutant, seal, myself )

[wavemode]

awoo sometimes you strike me as though you're actively trying to get me to scumread you

[Toranaga]

I'm maniacal enough that I'm still trying to finish reading the game before I have to sleep fwiw