Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Cerberus v666]

I haven't seen you actually consider them. Which posts do you feel I missed? I am human and have been swamped a bit.

As I said the only way I might randomize is from a pool of people I townread.

We can even decide that pool by consulting about members I think

Do you expect to townread a large enough number of people D1 that randomizing within that pool will have value?

pedit: Regarding mechanical stuff, based on the abilities on offer and the method by which we decide who gets powers or not,

I think it's safe to assume that scum have a factional ability to have *at least* one additional kill/a strongman kill/a roleblock happen during a night. It's possible that they don't, and that we'll see vig powers in the near future, but I find it unlikely that the game would have the possibility of 6 always BP town being created on N1.

*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong though, idk. I was just thinking about whether or not it would be optimal to just have everyone select the BP thing and use it all the time to minimize scum's ability to safely take shots. Even if there is other stuff they can do, it might be best to do that anyways, since it should force the use of resources to secure kills at night, or else they risk gambling stuff? This would, of course, have to be combined with FA *not* claiming who is on her team N1. Just a thought, basically put no effort into it so Drixx and Titus and other people who see when things are mechanically bad ideas please tell me if it's a bad idea kthx.

As I said the only way I might randomize is from a pool of people I townread.

We can even decide that pool by consulting about members I think

Do you expect to townread a large enough number of people D1 that randomizing within that pool will have value?

pedit: Regarding mechanical stuff, based on the abilities on offer and the method by which we decide who gets powers or not, I think it's safe to assume that scum have a factional ability to have *at least* one additional kill/a strongman kill/a roleblock happen during a night. It's possible that they don't, and that we'll see vig powers in the near future, but I find it unlikely that the game would have the possibility of 6 always BP town being created on N1.

*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong though, idk. I was just thinking about whether or not it would be optimal to just have everyone select the BP thing and use it all the time to minimize scum's ability to safely take shots. Even if there is other stuff they can do, it might be best to do that anyways, since it should force the use of resources to secure kills at night, or else they risk gambling stuff? This would, of course, have to be combined with FA *not* claiming who is on her team N1. Just a thought, basically put no effort into it so Drixx and Titus and other people who see when things are mechanically bad ideas please tell me if it's a bad idea kthx.

no I will probably fail at having 5 solid ones

what do you think with scum having a league of villans or something idea of me?

Possible, I don't know this moderator so I can't speculate about what they would or wouldn't have in the game.

The fact that there are probably factionals other than the kill makes such a thing unnecessary, but it could happen.

In Civ was the fact that scum could gain powers that weren't publicly announced as possibilities a publicly known fact about the game, even if exactly what those powers would be wasn't?

@Titus Because from my experience you're a good asset for town, and partially because I wanted to be chosen.

Why do you think I would choose you? Do you think being chosen is advantageous?

1. Because you like me
2. Not neccessarily, I just want to be a neighborizer.

what neighborize ability are you talking about?

The spirit medium I assume, it's a hood with a dead slot for the day/night after they died.

Possible, I don't know this moderator so I can't speculate about what they would or wouldn't have in the game. The fact that there are probably factionals other than the kill makes such a thing unnecessary, but it could happen. In Civ was the fact that scum could gain powers that weren't publicly announced as possibilities a publicly known fact about the game, even if exactly what those powers would be wasn't?

yes in civ there were wonders that were only buildable by scum which were known and adoptable by scum so if they were chosen with some mechanic they could build them etc

It will make it more powerful than a 1 shot factional block or factional cop cause it will be perma

they might get a perma strongman or something out of that too

or abilities that might mess with leader voting itself

There are so many possibilities

So, again, the presence of those abilities as a possibility was known. When trying to figure out what happened mechanically, the players were aware that there were these scum options that they could have. That might be the case later on, but I don't think there will be abilities that they will have access to that we won't be aware of as possibilities. Doesn't seem to work with the whole minigame with having different abilities available that everyone knows are around.

However, the fact that Im' pretty sure there are scum factionals

kinda messes with the limited possibilities idea, so fuck if I know wtf is going on. I don't think we can actually constructively discuss the possible scum options at this point, other than to say things that it makes sense for scum to have...but we can't rule out things as stuff scum *won't* have.

pedit:@FA, yes they can, and they can learn them both inthe same night.

As I said the only way I might randomize is from a pool of people I townread.

We can even decide that pool by consulting about members I think

Do you expect to townread a large enough number of people D1 that randomizing within that pool will have value?

pedit: Regarding mechanical stuff, based on the abilities on offer and the method by which we decide who gets powers or not, I think it's safe to assume that scum have a factional ability to have *at least* one additional kill/a strongman kill/a roleblock happen during a night. It's possible that they don't, and that we'll see vig powers in the near future, but I find it unlikely that the game would have the possibility of 6 always BP town being created on N1.

*shrug* Maybe I'm wrong though, idk. I was just thinking about whether or not it would be optimal to just have everyone select the BP thing and use it all the time to minimize scum's ability to safely take shots. Even if there is other stuff they can do, it might be best to do that anyways, since it should force the use of resources to secure kills at night, or else they risk gambling stuff? This would, of course, have to be combined with FA *not* claiming who is on her team N1. Just a thought, basically put no effort into it so Drixx and Titus and other people who see when things are mechanically bad ideas please tell me if it's a bad idea kthx.

Don't the powers change each day? Why are you assuming there will be a bulletproof available each day?

I'm not assuming that?

What I do know is that the moderator has said that the abilities chosen are permanent, and the one's listed today are not limited shots. That means those who end up on the team today could all choose the BP power and use it every night from this point forward. If they're all town AND scum have no way to break through the BP, then it would mean that it could theoretically become impossible for scum to lose(6 town>5 scum, they can't kill them, if they all bloc together and just lynch through the rest of the game while invulnerable scum can't possibly win), therefore there exists a means by which scum could break through said BP, either via multiple kills, empowered/strongman abilities, day kills, or roleblocking(assuming that works on the BP, which, given that it's a triggered BP, I would assume it does), and it makes the most sense for whatever that means is to exist as a factional ability which the scum team possesses

.

Multiple mentions of scum factionals bolded, as well as two explicitly mentions of factional strongmen, empowered abilities, extra kills to bypass a single kill protect, and roleblocking.

[Titus]

Yes, you mentioned them. Yet, you disregard them in insisting on mass bp plan.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.

And so what im doing in this game was born.

Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.

I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.

I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.

I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.

Based on Minuet game, I can relate to where she’s coming from. I experienced a very similar thing in a recent game (offsite). If you make reasonable assumptions based on logic that other people disagree with, you can get mistakenly scumread for that. I know what happened to me is still messing with my head. But why is their push scummy rather than probably wrong? I’ve observed plenty of games (primarily on MU) where town gets stuck in tunnel vision? Could that not be the case here?

It's theoretically possibly both are wrong town. It happens a lot. Strawmen cases are very anti-town. They decided that Sakura was scummy and then used her response to justify it.

There's even a theoetical chance they are trying to convince themselves of Sakura being scum.

It's just so anti-characteristic of Cerb when I ususally get hemms and haws no matter how hard I plead.

UFO just tends to chase strawmen so less worrying from him.

Cerb’s asking me how I didn’t know if he was “duplicating his town game” seemed odd to me. How could I possibly be expected to differentiate between his town game and a hypothetical pretend town game? But I think it’s more likely he was worried that I might be buddying him, so I can understand why he’d be questioning me on that.

Not worried about buddying, just find it unlikely that you have sufficient exposure to me to have a real strong town read on me at this point based on meta. I need to determine if your levels of certainty are way different than mine, and that what you're calling a town read based on meta is what I'd consider just weak evidence of towniness, or if you legitimately feel as strongly about me being town as your statements imply.

pedit: If you're not ignoring me, then stop repeatedly lying and saying that I never considered scum faction strongmen/roleblockers/empowered abilities, because I EXPLICITLY considered all three of those things, in two separate posts, and honestly, that's the STRONGEST part of the reason you've given for expressing any suspicion, and it's completely wrong.

I’m assuming the last part isn’t addressed to me. When I sort people in early game, I often do this based on early game weak reads. I usually townlean people this early on for the most part. I get in trouble for this a lot. I very rarely have strong reads on D1 - even less for scum.

[Cerberus v666]

Enhanced hearing is not tracking, and is therefore bad. If it were tracking, I could agree with you that 6x tracking is a strong option. I think the strongest long term option is probably the 6x medium for the coordination it will offer(again, creation of a voting bloc larger than the scum team as a possibility, as well as planning future actions), but it might be too slow to get going. It's almost certainly the lowest risk option though, if we think scum is likely in the hero team, because it contains a way to confirm that every person in the team chose that ability.

pedit: I don't disregard them! I don't assume that people who have those abilities will actually stay alive forever. I assume that scum will have to persistently utilize their(again, hopefully limited) resources to have any hope of SECURING kills.

[Toranaga]

I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.

And so what im doing in this game was born.

Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.

I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.

I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.

I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.

@titus point to me where have I jumped to the scum conclusion, cause I missed that part. or did you just respond to us both, whiteknighting sakura without reading my post fully?

what I said is that sakura's stance on not giving reads is not indicative of scum, and that I find cerberus' post about it villagery anyway. also that I like people pushing sakura about it, because it's unhelpful behaviour.

I find your whiteknight a little worrysome.

[Cerberus v666]

I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.

And so what im doing in this game was born.

Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.

I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.

I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.

I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.

Based on Minuet game, I can relate to where she’s coming from. I experienced a very similar thing in a recent game (offsite). If you make reasonable assumptions based on logic that other people disagree with, you can get mistakenly scumread for that. I know what happened to me is still messing with my head. But why is their push scummy rather than probably wrong? I’ve observed plenty of games (primarily on MU) where town gets stuck in tunnel vision? Could that not be the case here?

It's theoretically possibly both are wrong town. It happens a lot. Strawmen cases are very anti-town. They decided that Sakura was scummy and then used her response to justify it.

There's even a theoetical chance they are trying to convince themselves of Sakura being scum.

It's just so anti-characteristic of Cerb when I ususally get hemms and haws no matter how hard I plead.

UFO just tends to chase strawmen so less worrying from him.

Cerb’s asking me how I didn’t know if he was “duplicating his town game” seemed odd to me. How could I possibly be expected to differentiate between his town game and a hypothetical pretend town game? But I think it’s more likely he was worried that I might be buddying him, so I can understand why he’d be questioning me on that.

Not worried about buddying, just find it unlikely that you have sufficient exposure to me to have a real strong town read on me at this point based on meta. I need to determine if your levels of certainty are way different than mine, and that what you're calling a town read based on meta is what I'd consider just weak evidence of towniness, or if you legitimately feel as strongly about me being town as your statements imply.

pedit: If you're not ignoring me, then stop repeatedly lying and saying that I never considered scum faction strongmen/roleblockers/empowered abilities, because I EXPLICITLY considered all three of those things, in two separate posts, and honestly, that's the STRONGEST part of the reason you've given for expressing any suspicion, and it's completely wrong.

I’m assuming the last part isn’t addressed to me. When I sort people in early game, I often do this based on early game weak reads. I usually townlean people this early on for the most part. I get in trouble for this a lot. I very rarely have strong reads on D1 - even less for scum.

Yep, last part was to Titus, sorry! K, got it, that is...more reasonable.

@Titus: ALSO GOOD JOB MOVING THOSE GOAL POSTS FROM DIDN'T CONSIDER THOSE THINGS TO DIDN'T ASSUME THEY WOULD RESULT IN THE DEATH OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD OTHERWISE BE BP.

...

[Toranaga]

I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.

And so what im doing in this game was born.

Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.

I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.

I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.

I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.

Based on Minuet game, I can relate to where she’s coming from. I experienced a very similar thing in a recent game (offsite). If you make reasonable assumptions based on logic that other people disagree with, you can get mistakenly scumread for that. I know what happened to me is still messing with my head. But why is their push scummy rather than probably wrong? I’ve observed plenty of games (primarily on MU) where town gets stuck in tunnel vision? Could that not be the case here?

It's theoretically possibly both are wrong town. It happens a lot. Strawmen cases are very anti-town. They decided that Sakura was scummy and then used her response to justify it.

There's even a theoetical chance they are trying to convince themselves of Sakura being scum.

It's just so anti-characteristic of Cerb when I ususally get hemms and haws no matter how hard I plead.

UFO just tends to chase strawmen so less worrying from him.

so you're pegging me as someone who is likely to chase straw man, from an argument I didn't make and didn't agree with, and you're still drawing a lean on me, even if it's a null one, saying the straw man I'm chasing isn't worrysome. that's a lazy read. I have no idea how you can misinterpret me saying sakura's stuff is probably NAI as me deciding sakura was scummy, which was never the case, and then just shrug it off as UFO being UFO. it seems like you're not interested in parsing me out, titus. is this because you're scum?

[Toranaga]

I tried to put that post in spoilers so it's not aids to read but alas.

[Cerberus v666]

I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.

And so what im doing in this game was born.

Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.

I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.

I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.

I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.

@titus point to me where have I jumped to the scum conclusion, cause I missed that part. or did you just respond to us both, whiteknighting sakura without reading my post fully?

what I said is that sakura's stance on not giving reads is not indicative of scum, and that I find cerberus' post about it villagery anyway. also that I like people pushing sakura about it, because it's unhelpful behaviour.

I find your whiteknight a little worrysome.

I don't think scumtus finds the things I'm noting about Sakura threatening enough to move to protect her if they were teammates. If Titus is scum, this is weak protection being offered up for a known town flip, and not protection of a buddy...and I'm not sure how often Titus would actually do this as scum at this point, so it's super weak cause to be suspicious of her.

[Toranaga]

I don't think scumtus finds the things I'm noting about Sakura threatening enough to move to protect her if they were teammates. If Titus is scum, this is weak protection being offered up for a known town flip, and not protection of a buddy...and I'm not sure how often Titus would actually do this as scum at this point, so it's super weak cause to be suspicious of her.

notice, cerberus, that I'm not making an associative read between titus and sakura. in fact, I find it more likely that sakura is town if titus is a wolf trying to defend her in this situation. but this is not what my read is about. I'm just concerned with 1) clearly not reading my posting, 2) drawing leans, even null-like leans from it wrt my alignment and 3) defending sakura from accusation I didn't participate in. I think that's all very lazy in a scummy way.

[Cerberus v666]

I don't think scumtus finds the things I'm noting about Sakura threatening enough to move to protect her if they were teammates. If Titus is scum, this is weak protection being offered up for a known town flip, and not protection of a buddy...and I'm not sure how often Titus would actually do this as scum at this point, so it's super weak cause to be suspicious of her.

notice, cerberus, that I'm not making an associative read between titus and sakura. in fact, I find it more likely that sakura is town if titus is a wolf trying to defend her in this situation. but this is not what my read is about. I'm just concerned with 1) clearly not reading my posting, 2) drawing leans, even null-like leans from it wrt my alignment and 3) defending sakura from accusation I didn't participate in. I think that's all very lazy in a scummy way.

*nods* All noted. Something that is missing from my post was my internal thoughts that led to the post, which was mainly my knowledge that Titus is generally fairly protective of her scum teammates, which is why all of that is in the context of her protecting a teammate.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm pretty sure I gave reads.

[Toranaga]

*nods* All noted. Something that is missing from my post was my internal thoughts that led to the post, which was mainly my knowledge that Titus is generally fairly protective of her scum teammates, which is why all of that is in the context of her protecting a teammate.

ah yes, I understand where you're coming from. I know that's how titus behaves a whole lot, and I agree in this stance your push isn't incriminating enough that she needs to put herself out there as defending a scum team mate.

either way I think at least you, sando and frozen angel are all town. I should have harder leans this deep into d1 but the game isn't moving forward in any way.

[Toranaga]

I'm pretty sure I gave reads.

you gave reads, just didn't expand when asked.

I just ISO'd you and think you've been villagery throughout for what it's worth. but your townread on katsuki is interesting. if you can go down from your millennial podium for a second to explain this one I'd appreciate it.

[Titus]

I don't think scumtus finds the things I'm noting about Sakura threatening enough to move to protect her if they were teammates. If Titus is scum, this is weak protection being offered up for a known town flip, and not protection of a buddy...and I'm not sure how often Titus would actually do this as scum at this point, so it's super weak cause to be suspicious of her.

notice, cerberus, that I'm not making an associative read between titus and sakura. in fact, I find it more likely that sakura is town if titus is a wolf trying to defend her in this situation. but this is not what my read is about. I'm just concerned with 1) clearly not reading my posting, 2) drawing leans, even null-like leans from it wrt my alignment and 3) defending sakura from accusation I didn't participate in. I think that's all very lazy in a scummy way.

You and Cerb both were implying Sakura was scummy for her posting. I didn't draw a lean on your alignment. When I am town, we consistently have such fights where you walk back what you claim or argue disagreeing with you is bad or scummy. You did it with Sakura now me.

[Toranaga]

I've ISO'd hebichan ready to wolfread it but their latter posts were ~fine. I find the posts about voting, townreading and claiming they're voting kokichi again next gameday quite odd. why is anyone concerned with tomorrow's leader? what if you die? what if kokichi dies? what if someone becomes more villagery than kokichi and a better target for your vote? preemptively saying who you're voting next gameday feels pretty weird to me.

[Titus]

*nods* All noted. Something that is missing from my post was my internal thoughts that led to the post, which was mainly my knowledge that Titus is generally fairly protective of her scum teammates, which is why all of that is in the context of her protecting a teammate.

ah yes, I understand where you're coming from. I know that's how titus behaves a whole lot, and I agree in this stance your push isn't incriminating enough that she needs to put herself out there as defending a scum team mate.

either way I think at least you, sando and frozen angel are all town. I should have harder leans this deep into d1 but the game isn't moving forward in any way.

Newsflash, it doesn't here. People wait for some trivial thing to blow out of proportion. It gets countered. That's RVS.

[Toranaga]

I don't think scumtus finds the things I'm noting about Sakura threatening enough to move to protect her if they were teammates. If Titus is scum, this is weak protection being offered up for a known town flip, and not protection of a buddy...and I'm not sure how often Titus would actually do this as scum at this point, so it's super weak cause to be suspicious of her.

notice, cerberus, that I'm not making an associative read between titus and sakura. in fact, I find it more likely that sakura is town if titus is a wolf trying to defend her in this situation. but this is not what my read is about. I'm just concerned with 1) clearly not reading my posting, 2) drawing leans, even null-like leans from it wrt my alignment and 3) defending sakura from accusation I didn't participate in. I think that's all very lazy in a scummy way.

You and Cerb both were implying Sakura was scummy for her posting.

I didn't draw a lean on your alignment. When I am town, we consistently have such fights where you walk back what you claim or argue disagreeing with you is bad or scummy. You did it with Sakura now me.

bolded is false and shows you haven't been reading with the attention you're supposed to.

what did I and sakura disagreed with and where did I ever say she was scummy?

what did me and you disagreed with and where did I say you were scummy for it?

[Toranaga]

@titus: notice the only TvT fight I ever had with you, titus, was when I was hydraing with divagreen and rolling with her read of your slot. that was the only TvT fight we had. otherwise we've been either both scum or scum vs town in every game IIRC. in the two games we were both town (that light game on MU and the other game I got mislynched), I managed to townread you and you've townread me. so your ideas on how I play and how hard we go at each other aren't necessarily all there. that one hydra game and assassins' creed were the games we tried to kill each other, but in AC you were a wolf.

[Titus]

Also, Cerb I did not move the goalposts.

A good Cerb knows nightless isn't a setup town wins. A good Cerb realizes that his claim gives no invests. You're acting in your walls as if one did not exist. Mentioning something is not intellectual vigor.

It's just odd. A good Cerb knows there are serious flaws logically with you.

[Titus]

I don't think scumtus finds the things I'm noting about Sakura threatening enough to move to protect her if they were teammates. If Titus is scum, this is weak protection being offered up for a known town flip, and not protection of a buddy...and I'm not sure how often Titus would actually do this as scum at this point, so it's super weak cause to be suspicious of her.

notice, cerberus, that I'm not making an associative read between titus and sakura. in fact, I find it more likely that sakura is town if titus is a wolf trying to defend her in this situation. but this is not what my read is about. I'm just concerned with 1) clearly not reading my posting, 2) drawing leans, even null-like leans from it wrt my alignment and 3) defending sakura from accusation I didn't participate in. I think that's all very lazy in a scummy way.

You and Cerb both were implying Sakura was scummy for her posting.

I didn't draw a lean on your alignment. When I am town, we consistently have such fights where you walk back what you claim or argue disagreeing with you is bad or scummy. You did it with Sakura now me.

bolded is false and shows you haven't been reading with the attention you're supposed to.

what did I and sakura disagreed with and where did I ever say she was scummy?

what did me and you disagreed with and where did I say you were scummy for it?

Liyerally, it's the entire conversation.

[Titus]

@titus: notice the only TvT fight I ever had with you, titus, was when I was hydraing with divagreen and rolling with her read of your slot. that was the only TvT fight we had. otherwise we've been either both scum or scum vs town in every game IIRC. in the two games we were both town (that light game on MU and the other game I got mislynched), I managed to townread you and you've townread me. so your ideas on how I play and how hard we go at each other aren't necessarily all there. that one hydra game and assassins' creed were the games we tried to kill each other, but in AC you were a wolf.

No. You picked a fight with me when I caught the entire scumteam d1 on MU. I can never find that game though when I need it. You and Raj are the same. You love consensus and you think its right.

I hate consensus without challenge. Therefore you view me as the enemy.

[Sakura Hana]

you gave reads, just didn't expand when asked.

That is correct.

if you can go down from your millennial podium for a second to explain this one I'd appreciate it.

I'd appreciate it if you didnt talk about it in that way, I never said I was better than anyone, nor that my reads should be listened to without explanation, im just relaxing and being lazy.

[Toranaga]

I have

-NEVER-

said sakura was scummy. or implied it.

you're wrong. read better.

[Titus]

Like I literally cannot whiteknight Sakura from your comments UFO if they are not shading her. It's definitional.