Mini 2020: Destiny III: Cosmic Mafia [終わり]

[zMuffinMan]

haven’t seen cupcake be scum in a while. odds are good that means he’s scum here

Vote: Cupcake

KILL: CUPCAKE

[zMuffinMan]

just quietly, i wouldn't mind crossing "get cupcake lynched before he can even post" off my mafia bucket list

[zMuffinMan]

luckily, fate didn't include main accounts in the day start PM

so we have a window of time to lynch cupcake before he notices the game has started

i believe

[zMuffinMan]

on a slightly less serious note, kuribo seems town, despite being unwilling to vote cupcake (nobody is perfect and some mistakes can be forgiven)

pixie might be town too

[zMuffinMan]

i would not be at all surprised if he's town and the wagon is scum-infested

but otoh there's lynching cupcake before he can even post

so

dilemma

[zMuffinMan]

I'm giving the side-eye to ol' Nekkid Voting Ghost over there too

the only thing i think is interesting about anonymousghost's vote is the whole avoiding talking about the cupcake wagon or anything that's happening with that

but it doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother you

[zMuffinMan]

she said she wasn't going to pay attention to this game, she wasn't going to pay attention to this game, she wasn't going to pay attention to this damn it

then she said getting out in front of X before Y can X, followed by yadda yadda votes blah blah pressure someone just do the thing

hopefully that clears things up for you

[zMuffinMan]

nah, i think my interpretation was closer to the mark

[zMuffinMan]

you know, one day i'll actually get you lynched before you can post and it will be glorious

the twilight posts from you will be amazing and ill hold it over you forever and ever

Vote Count:

camntsuki-Sagitarrius: To Unify (5) zMuffinMan, thepixiecollective, Espeonage, Staeg, MariaR
zMuffinMan- Virgo: To Serve (0)
Kokichi Oma- Gemini: To Listen (0)
MariaR- Aquarius: To Liberate (0)
AnonymousGhost- Scorpio: To Transform (0)
thepixiecollective- Cancer: To Nourish (1) Dunnstral
DrippingGoofBall- Libra: To Balance (0)
Espeonage-Gemini: To Listen (2) Lady Lambdadelta, camntsuki
Kuribo- Gemini: To Listen (1) AnonymousGhost
Feysal- Virgo: To Serve (0)
Nachomamma8- Pisces: To Let Go (1) MariaR
Staeg- Aquarius: To Liberate (0)
LadyLambdadelta- Taurus: To Produce (0)
Dunnstral- Cancer: To Nourish (0)

Not Voting: Kokichi Oma, DGB, Feysal, Nachomamma8

With 13 alive it takes 7 to obliterate someone.

Deadline: July 15th

[zMuffinMan]

hey, cupcake

i think you might have accidentally had caps lock on while you were writing your posts

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah and Kara has never been more town than right now, sorry bout y'alls damn luck

i dont think anything kara has said or done looks town tbh (if anything, the opposite)

Muffin isn't being serious enough to be scum so far.

not sure what youre implying - i was dead serious about wanting to lynch cupcake before he could post

[zMuffinMan]

espy might be town

LLD might be town

[zMuffinMan]

the LLD post was fine - it's part of why i think LLD is vaguely townish

that said, calling it "very good" was very not good

[zMuffinMan]

I do think his posts ring true

his thoughts (e.g. about you) probably are true

i don't think that makes him town (or looks town)

felt a bit like he was trying too hard to _seem_ town but it may just be because this particular mix of players brings out a different type of play

[zMuffinMan]

#123 is about kokichi, not LLD

[zMuffinMan]

don't think that kokichi post is anywhere near as bad as some people are suggesting it is

also don't think kokichi is all that hard a player to read given time

[zMuffinMan]

currently want to lynch in these players, unless they start looking town:
{cupcake, dunnstral, cupcake, kokichi, cupcake,

feysal

, cupcake,

nacho

, cupcake}

maybe add cupcake to that list

[zMuffinMan]

oh and staeg

[zMuffinMan]

(and cupcake)

[zMuffinMan]

i thought you were pretty easy to read in fakegod game

you actually looked town from the onset

you don't here

[zMuffinMan]

i wasnt even really referring to kuribo - he was just the one who explained the logic behind it (i actually don't think he's wrong about it being sort of a tell in a general sense, but there's nuance to it that makes it not so clear-cut like familiarity with a player list)

was more talking about people outright calling it a "scum post" (dgb, staeg)

[zMuffinMan]

that was a list of people i dont have any sort of town read on (including people who hadnt posted) - i don't think your post was a 'scum post' but it wasn't town either

[zMuffinMan]

I don't know what Cupcake could have done to deserve this flash wagon

clearly never played with cupcake before

[zMuffinMan]

I'm just saying that motivation wise and action wise nothing there makes sense.

tbh i do this all the time (even when im dead)

i don't consider it 'discrediting', just pointing out things i do or don't agree with (i could go into a mafia theory rant about why i think this is actually good for the game in general but i'll spare you)

reads to me like feysal read your post, thought it was town reasoning but didn't think it was solid, thought espy was scum for other reasons

don't see the issue with that. if anything, i think it's more likely to come from town given scum doesn't need to do that if they're just going to vote who you think is scum anyway

[zMuffinMan]

Do you see why I don't like it, though? I described it a bit more in post 168

ironically, i understand your reasoning, i just don't agree with it

i don't think what feysal did was an attempt to discredit you. it read to me more like he just wanted to make clear that he thought your post was coming from a town mindset despite not agreeing with it

i can see where you're coming from if you were interpreting it correctly (i.e. he was discrediting you); i just don't currently think that's what happened

honestly just reads to me like a player coming to a read despite a differing opinion another player but seeing another reason to think the other player is scum anyway

[zMuffinMan]

Look through the rest of my reads and tell me where you sit

i thought casper's posts towards kuribo looked mildly town (nothing special here, just think the posting felt relaxed and somewhat self-assured)

i thought espy's self-conscious posts were kind of town. i thought espy's thing about me being town read like someone who was keeping something close to their chest while monitoring my posts (even though the reasoning is flawed; i think i'm self-aware enough that i'd still post similarly if i were scum)

agree cupcake dying is a good thing in 100% of games, even when he's an innocent child

you're someone I'm kind of uncertain on how to approach and read

if it helps, i'm town

i wouldn't lie about that

honest

[zMuffinMan]

cupcake might actually be my first townread and

it makes want to cry

good. that's how you should feel after saying something like that

[zMuffinMan]

ut is wise

[zMuffinMan]

am i town mollie?

[zMuffinMan]

can we lynch dunnstral to speed things up?

you can consider my vote there in spirit if you wish. i don't think it's a bad vote. not sure im comfortable bussing atm though

[zMuffinMan]

Who then?

Talk to me about your scumreads

staeg or dunnstral atm

there isn't much to talk about here

dunnstral just hasn't done anything and i don't like anything staeg has written. like anything. at all

most other players who've posted i have some degree of town read on or haven't formed a read yet. which reminds me, i want nacho to show up and make me feel warm, tender feelings

[zMuffinMan]

side note, i don't believe that kokichi doesn't have his role. i don't think him lying about that makes him scum, though

[zMuffinMan]

MuffinZ you forgot to vote LLD

i currently think she's town

(only part i agree was somewhat odd was the "or both scum?" comment - thinking that was just her spilling thoughts as they occurred to her though)

[zMuffinMan]

I'm gonna go fucking cry I hate this

just take a step back from the thread for a bit. i don't think DGB was trying to misrep you, i think that's just how she's interpreting your posts (accurately or not) - don't take it personally

[zMuffinMan]

does anybody else see where I am going with this?

you're reading something that isn't there

ill be sitting over here until you figure out im town

also, the following is a blatant lie:

just because muffina said its true doesn't mean it actually is.

[zMuffinMan]

i honestly feel sorry for your shift key, cupcake

[zMuffinMan]

how do you feel about staeg?

[zMuffinMan]

uh

that was directed at mollie but sure you can answer if you want

[zMuffinMan]

hmm

Vote: Staeg

[zMuffinMan]

though i hope you are all aware that for every day you leave cupcake alive, a <insert small animal you think is cute> dies

let that weigh on your consciences, you inhuman monsters

[zMuffinMan]

"they all"

all two of us

[zMuffinMan]

that's rude

[zMuffinMan]

real talk: if someone can point me to one post in staeg's ISO they think comes from town and competently defend it as a town post, i'll eat the shirt i'm currently wearing

[zMuffinMan]

WHAT THEFUCK HAPPENED TO MY CUPCAK WAGON

sorry

[zMuffinMan]

had a really busy day today. exhausted. will be around tomorrow

[zMuffinMan]

work kicking my ass. will be around tomorrow morning probably

[zMuffinMan]

dont think being wishy-washy is a bad thing. it might be though

[zMuffinMan]

hmm, i guess my attempt at humour wasnt very good (or wasnt as obvious as i thought it was). anywho, reading now

[zMuffinMan]

hey mollie

[zMuffinMan]

since you said please, i'll take your request into consideration

why is cupcake a town lean for you?

[zMuffinMan]

fine, be that way. i didn't even want to have a conversation with you

[zMuffinMan]

i don't have any sort of town read on him. i think his earlier posts were trying too hard to seem town and that's something i usually associate with his scum play but i'm not particularly confident about this just because of who's playing the game and how that might have affected his approach. i didn't like camn's post about LLD though (i think that's the only time she's actually posted?)

[zMuffinMan]

cupcake has posted more times in this D1 than he normally posts across entire games when he's town - i know that's probably in part because he's excited about it being a fate game with this player list but meh. i guess how much he's appealing to certain players doesn't sit well with me either. honestly don't remember the last time he put this much effort into a game he was town

[zMuffinMan]

what did you think of nacho's entrance btw?

don't really like the staeg defense - i wouldn't classify anything staeg's posted as "snarky" but even if i squint and look at his posts sideways, i can't see what he's referring to. nacho's reasoning for voting me feels pretty weak. don't really like the fact he put a lot more effort into talking about things other than his primary scum read, especially since he should know it's going to take a lot more than that to actually get me lynched (i get that he's time-constrained but he had enough time to post the rest of what he posted so yeah)

[zMuffinMan]

i don't really think dunnstral is scum. nothing special here, just small things about his play that i think are more likely to come from town than scum

[zMuffinMan]

i didnt like his entrance; it felt flat and uninspired? something like that. actually a lot of his posting feels flat but i don't have as much of an issue with it as i did initially

i guess if you want an example of a small thing i'm talking about, i think the way he's handling LLD looks townish (i.e. i like that he's not trying to fan the flames between her and DGB). like i said, nothing special here

[zMuffinMan]

his indifference to the suspicion being leveled at him (mainly in conversations with kuribo) seems fine to me too. i like that he's not trying too hard to justify his actions or deflect the suspicion or anything like that

why do you think he's scum?

[zMuffinMan]

the way he stated the kuribo read is weird. dont think it makes him scum, though. not really sure i'd expect someone with zero experience with kuribo to have him as a solid town read here

it'd be pretty easy for dunn-scum to just write kuribo off as town (like everyone else seems to be doing) instead of drawing attention to himself like that

[zMuffinMan]

my read on him isn't actually strong enough that i feel comfortable defending him

i just think he's done some things that are more likely to come from town

not going to be shocked if i'm wrong, though

i might get around to looking through his meta to get a better idea of how he plays scum some time tomorrow

[zMuffinMan]

your reads arent that far apart from mine outside of dunnstral/cupcamn

[zMuffinMan]

who do you want lynched besides the cupcake? I can tell you rn you aren't going to get that lynch past dgb and kuribo. I have tried.

im not voting cupcake

i want to lynch staeg

[zMuffinMan]

@casper,

i wasnt having a conversation with mollie to go anywhere specifically, per se. it was more to let her get a better grasp on where my head is at in this game than anything tbh. i didn't expect to come out of it having convinced her of anything (and, well, if you expect anything she said to have changed my mind about something then you weren't really reading the exchange) - i just expected her to have a better understanding of where our reads differ and what im feeling about some players and why

[zMuffinMan]

@mollie, i don't think casper's logic is great but the whole 'scum theatre' angle looks more like genuine paranoia than scum making something up

[zMuffinMan]

i still want to lynch staeg. his most recent post to kuribo just looks like a lot of words used to say very little in the end (im not even clear on whether he is (or was) reading kuribo as scum - the beginning of that post seems to suggest he was, the end of it seems to suggest he isn't, but it's not entirely clear)

[zMuffinMan]

go to your happy place, kuribo

[zMuffinMan]

Along with misassigning some posts to various players and thus no longer feeling like your first moves in the game were that great

which posts are you referring to here?

I don't see a way for you to come to this conclusion and then continue pushing the angle in light of everything that happens and after being warned of thunderstrike territory

i don't understand what this means or why you think it makes him scum

what everything that's happened?

what thunderstrike territory? (i assume this is referring to the wrath of kuribo^TM, but why is that relevant?)

[zMuffinMan]

hes voting cupcamn iirc

nothing inconsistent there

[zMuffinMan]

pretty sure this is the current vc mollie

Dunnstral (4) - Kuribo, LLD, cupcamn, staeg
Staeg (4) - Espy, MariaR, God, Casper
God (1) - Nacho
Cupcamn (1) - Dunnstral
Espy (1) - DGB
Casper (1) - mollie
MariaR (1) - kokichi

[zMuffinMan]

pretty sure this is the current vc mollie

Dunnstral (4) - Kuribo, LLD, cupcamn, staeg
Staeg (4) - Espy, MariaR, God, Casper
Espy (2) - DGB, Feysal
God (1) - Nacho
Cupcamn (1) - Dunnstral
Casper (1) - mollie
MariaR (1) - kokichi

edit: forgot feysal existed

[zMuffinMan]

deadline is some undetermined time about a week from now (dont expect precision from fate)

though id rather not drag this out to the deadline so id prefer you get in the game sooner rather than later

@kokichi

[zMuffinMan]

Anyway moving on Muffin can I ask what your overall stances on the game are I noticed you had a lot of post but I can't remember reading a lot of them.

incase you missed it

@zmuffinman

at work and skimming between doing stuff, but just briefly, i currnetly want to lynch in {staeg, nacho, kokichi, cupcamn}. have town reads to varying degrees on the rest of the game. LLD read has been going stale lately though

if you want elaboration, it'll have to wait til after lunch prob

[zMuffinMan]

modkill is a godkill, you know the lingo

why are you misleading this?

didnt realise that was what he was referring to and no i actually didnt know that *shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

so dunns is the hell wagon and staeg is the heaven. who on the staeg's wagon wld you be looking at for scum based on play plus vote placement?

i dont actually have a scum read on the staeg wagon

if anyone, espy, but i don't really think he's scum

i think scum are mostly in the less active players and haven't been participating much in the major wagons (outside of maybe cupcamn who, per usual, jumps on anything that breathes)

[zMuffinMan]

@feysal

can you give a current reads list or an idea of where you're currently at in terms of reads and why?

i assume espy is still a scum read? do you have any other scum reads?

[zMuffinMan]

i have a better idea. how about you vote staeg?

[zMuffinMan]

i still want to lynch staeg

if anyone can read a post like #996 and tell me that sort of post comes from a town mindset, they're either lying or trolling

open challenge to anyone: find town content in staeg's ISO

[zMuffinMan]

oh, that reminds me

cupcake is all about sheeping...

ALL HAIL THE PACT
LOYAL SHEEP MODE ENGAGED
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

UNVOTE, VOTE：ANONYMOUSGHOST

UNVOTE, VOTE: *KOKICHI OMA

WE'VE MADE ENOUGH POSTS SUCH TAHT MOMMY WONT NOTICE THIS BURIED WITHIN

TIME TO SUPPORT KURIBOS OFFERING FOR THE BLOOD GODS

VOTE: DUNNSTRAL

... right up until it comes to voting staeg. now he won't budge on dunnstral, even though kuribo's recently moved to dunnstral

[zMuffinMan]

moved to staeg* from dunnstral*

[zMuffinMan]

also that last VC is still wrong, mollie is voting casper

[zMuffinMan]

oh yeah, someone wanted me to talk about reads. ignoring the staeg read,

i don't feel good about cupcamn. i didn't like the way camn voted LLD, mostly due to how weak it felt and how it felt more like stoking the fire than a legitimate read (not sure how many posts she's posted since then, if any - i think i saw some recent reads from her maybe but didn't think they looked all that special) and i think cupcake's trying to be super active to avoid the standard shit he gets for being lurky but his posting doesn't actually look town to me. not going to claim i have flawless accuracy reading cupcake, but i don't think the way he's playing this game is anything close to how he usually plays as town (his early posts had a lot more posturing in them than i'm used to and i don't actually think the way he's acting around dunnstral is coming from town-cupcake). the unwillingness to vote staeg just makes me think he doesn't want to bus if he can help it

nacho just isn't here and i didn't like his initial posts. went over this a bit with mollie at some point. refer back to that if you want more depth here (there really isn't much to talk about here though given how little he's posted). dont remember if i mentioned it when talking to mollie, but i do also think the way he talked about staeg is what he'd do if he were scum with staeg here

not a huge fan of kokichi's maria vote. still waiting on him to write any game-relevant content. don't really have a scum read on him but would not be sad to see a vig take him out

LLD i thought looked town early. that read's been going stale. i don't think the lurking is scummy or anything, but my read on her was mostly a gut-based feeling that her thoughts seemed genuine early on. nothing so strong that i'm willing to let her skate on zero content past the early game. i want to see her take on recent events

i have town reads of varying degrees on the rest of the game. dunnstral, feysal, espy are weaker town reads (though i'd prefer the latter two were more active than they've been). DGB, kuribo, AG, maria are stronger town reads. and if mollie is scum, then wow

[zMuffinMan]

BECAUSE WE THINK DUNNS IS SCUM WTF?

does camn think that too, now? have you two talked about reads?

SEE ANY DRAM OR FATE GAME FOR TOWN ACTIVITY LEVELS

yeah, i actually started going over your games last night and i realised the activity itself probably doesn't mean much (i also checked that fakegod kuribo in wonderland game as well, fwiw). i suppose it's just been a while since i've seen it so that was what initially stuck out to me here

the activity isn't really much of a factor in why i think you're scum, though

btw, what actually is your read on staeg, cupcake?

[zMuffinMan]

His posts are designed to bait you into an argument.

don't think this is true (except insofar as people regularly incite arguments in a mafia game). i'm aware he's made posts like 766, but posts like that aren't a general trend like you're suggesting they are

[zMuffinMan]

i mean, sure, i don't think it's helpful or good for the game in any way. but it's far from the worst thing i've seen in a mafia game and it's not at the "how could that possibly be town?" level like cupcake is saying it is

[zMuffinMan]

I think camntsuki is a way better chance of hitting mafia than staeg is and would like to wagon that isntead. Staeg is bad but I'm more sure on Camntsuki

i think staeg is more likely than cupcamn. i'd rather staeg first.

if

there's support for a cupcamn wagon over staeg then i'll move there though, but i'm not going to abandon the staeg wagon to push it

do you think staeg has done anything that looks town or why do you want to lynch cupcamn first?

What's the difference between this game and my game in the FakeGod game where you TR me?

in the fakegod game, i believed your "5 day" claim (lol) because it had a distinctly "fakegod-would-give-that-sort-of-modifier-to-town" feel to it (pretty sure i explicitly mentioned that on at least one occasion). im prone to taking early claims like that at face value (see: me also completely ignoring mastina in that game too)

plus i just thought you seemed town in some posts there (i don't remember the specifics, but i don't get the same feeling here)

probably wasn't fair to say you hadn't posted any game-relevant content here. i exaggerate sometimes. sue me. you've posted some content, just not much. and what little you've posted hasn't given me any strong feelings about you

[zMuffinMan]

I've already stated why Meta is a reason I've scumread Maria

yeah, i've been following the back and forth you've been having with mollie. that's part of why i don't like the maria read you gave

[zMuffinMan]

following that progression it seems more obvious that he was initially scumreading Kuribo for the push but backed off it later

let's break this down

it wasn't obvious that he was scum-reading kuribo before that post. calling someone's push "ill-founded" (324) doesn't imply a scum read and the posts following that didn't read to me like he was scum-reading kuribo either

as far as the progression on that read goes, what progression? at what point and why do you think staeg flipped the kuribo read you think he had? because for the most part, that post looks like him trying to rock the boat as little as possible (there's no attack on kuribo here, it reads more like a defense of himself, and the second and fourth paragraph aren't even about kuribo). he never commits to a kuribo read at any point (in that post or the prior ones) and he ends that post by seemingly backing off for reasons he doesn't talk about

that's why i say i can't even tell what his read on kuribo was

the idea that he would push Kuribo as scum because "your groove wasn't fitting in with how I was feeling at time" seems absurd to me

that looks like a personalised way of saying "gut"

but, again, there

was no push on kuribo

btw, where is your meta on staeg coming from? because i've looked through all of the games here and the only scum game i can find is down the bottom (OPEN 383 REBOOT, which he seems to have replaced into and has none of the players here). unless i missed something somewhere, in which case, point me to it

[zMuffinMan]

If he was scum here, then I'd imagine he'd have a vague sort of plan in mind when deciding to defend Dunnstral against kuribo, but this... doesn't imply that at all.

i don't believe staeg is the type of meticulous scum player who pre-plans all his actions like that so i don't find it strange at all. especially if dunnstral is town and the most viable not-staeg option

to me it looked more like he started out defending a town player, realised it wasn't worth the time and effort and that he wasn't looking good, decided to switch gears when he felt he was in danger himself

decides to throw a potshot at DGB, who is one of the most townread players in the game right now and coincidentally was one of the very few players leaning town on him at this point

i don't think him throwing a potshot at DGB means anything in and of itself (and i don't think this is him going "wildly suicidal"). i do, however, think the reasoning he gave for is a strange angle for scum to push, which is giving me some pause now that i'm thinking about it. i'll think about it more when i'm not busy at work

[zMuffinMan]

he knows he's getting pushback for it and he knows it's going to be challenged

sure, but assume he's scum. the alternative is what? sheep everything kuribo says all game and hopes that works out for him?

then realized he was incorrect about elements of kuribo's push

he didn't say he thought he was incorrect about elements of kuribo's push (assuming you're referring to kuribo's push on dunnstral, the catalyst for the whole thing) which is why i'm saying there is no progression on that read. the only thing that apparently changed is his dunnstral read

[zMuffinMan]

btw, where is your meta on staeg coming from? because i've looked through all of the games here and the only scum game i can find is down the bottom (OPEN 383 REBOOT, which he seems to have replaced into and has none of the players here). unless i missed something somewhere, in which case, point me to it

in case you missed it, nacho

[zMuffinMan]

i don't believe that claim

to clarify you're saying you didn't get a moon sign and you've got "Aquarius/None = Hades" or something?

[zMuffinMan]

You will recieve a Moon sign as your ALIGNMENT

@FATE

confirm this is true

[zMuffinMan]

i want a proper full claim. nacho's about the only person i could see you being masons with anyway, so no trying to worm your way out of it with "not outing my partner" - it's either nacho or you're scum fake-claiming

[zMuffinMan]

He significantly killed off our enthusiasm for this game. See his posts directed at us, and his subsequent interactions with mollie. Then combine that with the points we already laid out prior, including his interactions towards Kuribo.

oh yeah, skipped this earlier

a) i don't believe you think this makes dunnstral scum, and
b) what points you laid out prior? the only other point i remember you making is that he was "making posts in bad faith" which is the same point...

[zMuffinMan]

thought about it. i dont really believe the mason claim tbh

probably not a great idea to lynch them D1 though. just im not going to be at all surprised if theyre still around at lylo

[zMuffinMan]

i still don't believe staeg is town and im pretty sure nacho knew he was taking the fall after a staeg lynch so yeah

[zMuffinMan]

whatever

Vote: Cupcamn

[zMuffinMan]

Just comparing the Sun/Moon aspect to my own role PM and Kuribo's claim (Gemini/Capricorn), I'm kinda wondering if the Greek God claims are legit

my role has nothing to do with greek gods but it's either their fake-claim or they're town, so i don't think it matters

do you think that they wld do it in this small of a game?

yes. why not? it literally takes them off the table at least until later in the game so as long as whoever theyre scum with doesn't get lynched, it's good for them. yeah, it ties their fate together (haha, get it? ... i'll see myself out...), but let's be honest, if staeg had gone down today, nacho was going to (most likely) get strung up D2 anyway. this gives them at least a chance to force some mislynches through before that happens and give their buddy better chances (and people are going to be wary about lynching mason claims at any stage of the game outside of lylo, really)

i think it might just be staeg-nacho-cupcamn

it would make sense of why cupcake hasn't said a word about staeg all game until just recently. the only nacho mention i can find is in 859 (camn post) and that's pretty weak

and staeg hasn't said a word about cupcamn or nacho all game

(i realise there's probably not much point in harping on about this today, just wanted to make it clear what im currently thinking is happening here since i figure people are going to write them off because of the claim)

[zMuffinMan]

(btw last thing ill say on this today: it should go without saying, but if they ever try to retract that mason claim with like a "hehe we're actually neighbours but i just had a strong read on him" or anything like that, lynch them both with fire)

[zMuffinMan]

If it turns out that you were right and staeg/nacho were indeed scum fakeclaiming muffins we'll spend the next month talking about how wonderful muffins are.

even though i know you're probably just saying that to try to make me doubt my read, if i'm right, i will hound you about that in every post i make, fyi

[zMuffinMan]

not going to argue this point, but @anyone saying they wouldn't claim masons as scum,

staeg was getting lynched if not for that claim and nacho was following right after him (i don't care that people had a murder boner for dunnstral-staeg, nacho was pretty clearly tied to staeg, so even if somehow nacho lived past D2, he wasn't making it past D3). that claim just bought them time to get mislynches (possibly a few because people still might not lynch them when they're both magically alive D3). it's not bad play or 'suboptimal' to throw a hail mary when you're probably fucked anyway

don't blindly write them off as town for that claim

[zMuffinMan]

SINGLEHANDEDLY LYNCHED ALL 3 SCUM IN HIS LAST GAME

this made me chuckle a bit

[zMuffinMan]

oh yeah, cupcake inadvertently reminded me... im pretty sure im still owed this, mollie:

Spoiler:

dark is town if I am wrong I am willing to eat kitty litter. I don't think I am.

[zMuffinMan]

they are self resolving. you freaking know this.

well, a) i'm not advocating lynching them today and b) no they aren't if they don't die

[zMuffinMan]

current VC is something like:

cupcamn(4): dunnstral, maria, me, mollie
dunnstral(3): cupcamn, staeg, kuribo
LLD: DGB
staeg: espy
espy: feysal
maria: kokichi
feysal: LLD
kokichi: nacho

not voting: casper

8 to lynch

deadline sometime in the next 3 days

[zMuffinMan]

you are cruel and inhumane muffina. I hope this weighs heavily on your conscience.

lol i didn't bring it up seriously (literally just got reminded of it because of what cupcake said about praising muffins for a month) and i don't expect you to sheep me because of it (i'd prefer people don't blindly sheep me because it makes me want to second-guess everything i think)

if you don't think cupcake is scum, fine, but i think you're wrong and i want you to talk about it (im leaving work and heading home in about half an hour if anyone wants to discuss shit after that)

in short though, i don't think the little camn has posted looks town and i don't think cupcake legitimately thinks most of the things he's claiming he thinks this game (e.g. i don't really believe that cupcake thinks dunnstral's scum whose goal was to sow discord by getting into arguments)

[zMuffinMan]

i'd rather you didn't replace out (even though i want you lynched and i don't really believe this appeal)

[zMuffinMan]

ive never had that sort of nacho moment either tbh

seems to be every game but the ones im in with him...

i mean, there was that one time we miscounted the votes and attempted a quickhammer on someone only to leave them at L-1... but i dont think that counts...

[zMuffinMan]

sorry to interrupt your moment, kuribo, but who do you think is scum apart from dunnstral? (feel free to answer that after youre done, i dont mind)

[zMuffinMan]

ok. fwiw, i think you're probably wrong about cupcake and as much as i joke about lynching him in every game i play with him, i never actually try to get him lynched (much less D1) unless i feel a decent amount of confidence about him being scum and i do here

not really sure why you think he's town and since you're not going to explain it, do you have a pool of players you'd be willing to lynch outside of dunnstral?

i don't really think dunnstral is scum atm and none of the arguments i've seen leveled against him have made me feel like "yeah, that's a good point"

[zMuffinMan]

re:casper

pretty sure i've been more vocal than casper on the masons potentially being scum (only difference being i acknowledge that it's not a great idea to lynch them D1) so i don't really have an issue with the speculation she's been doing (but then i'm biased here because i don't think she's on the wrong track)

as a side note, i don't think nacho is stupid, but i don't think it was as stupid a move as you're suggesting it is. he's the type of player who i think would be willing to take risks and gambit when the alternative is having a buddy go down d1 and him being next on the chopping block. and he was going to be next, or at least one of the top candidates for a D2 lynch, if staeg flipped scum. and i do think staeg has been playing like scum. so yeah...

also re:casper, i've felt the same about a lot of the angles she's been thinking about things this game. e.g. her thoughts on mollie + me being scum together looked far more like paranoid town thinking they're onto something than scum trying to push mislynches. and she's been consistently looking at things in a way that just doesn't make much sense to me from a scum pov imo

[zMuffinMan]

I KNOW you remember the time I went back shit crazy thinking you and nacho were scum with the ap hydra because you guys were speaking in pirate speak and you and nacho were fisting the entire way. I believe nacho lost a bet to you, so don't even hand me that "oh yeah, I had the same experience too with nacho" cos you are lying through your pearly white teeth.

mollie... i remember that game as "the game mollie read me as scum for speaking like a pirate". i don't remember anything nacho said in it and iirc you ran him up, he claimed cop then died n1 after he lurked out the last half of D1. kuribo was talking about 'tour de force nacho' games (i.e. games where he paved the way for victory) - that wasn't one of them. but seriously, why do you think i would lie about something so inconsequential like that? please don't make this the game i remember as "the game mollie read me as scum for not thinking nacho did much in the game mollie read me as scum for speaking like a pirate"

ps: i've played more games with nacho than i've played with anyone else in this game (with the possible exception of cupcake) and i remember the vast majority of them on some level, but that's not what kuribo was talking about

[zMuffinMan]

Well essentially I guess I'm a VT for now? And then I become something later? Which is why I was confused when the game started. Because I wasn't able to confirm my role PM and it just started and I had questions about it based on what my PM says cause it's confusing, and the mod never responded to me. Which is why I wasn't sure what my role was because of the wording.

what were you confused about and what questions did you ask the mod?

[zMuffinMan]

thinking i may be wrong about staeg(+nacho) but i don't really care about sorting that further atm

btw, there are 14 players in this game so it should be 8 to lynch, despite what fate's votecounts say

[zMuffinMan]

also claim your sun/moon=??? thingo kokichi

[zMuffinMan]

you should already know i don't vote bloc (except due to bets...)

currently contemplating

whether i will get any town credit for busing

that claim and what it means about him and the setup in general

my role has a similar element to it (i know what i am, but i don't fully know what i do yet. don't feel like elaborating on this atm)

[zMuffinMan]

hmm. kokichi is probably just scum and i should probably stop overthinking this

meh

[zMuffinMan]

im waiting on fate to answer a couple questions

be patient

ill probably vote kokichi after that

[zMuffinMan]

also daily reminder that cupcake is still probably scum

[zMuffinMan]

well, at least that saves me having to do any more reading today

[zMuffinMan]

vote: kuribo

merry xmas

[zMuffinMan]

oh i had some thoughts about vc shenanigans yesterday but im tired atm so maybe ill talk about it after sleep. briefly though, feysal never voted kokichi (publicly at least) and someone wasnt counted as 'alive' for the entirety of yesterday (or fate is trolling me hard)

[zMuffinMan]

uh...

hmm

Unvote
Vote: mollie

[zMuffinMan]

or just have whoever gets elected agree to shoot someone and hold them accountable to it works

though i wouldnt trust cupcake as far as i could throw him

[zMuffinMan]

back to the regularly scheduled program then

Vote: Kuribo

[zMuffinMan]

inb4 i was right about masons being scum and cupcake owes me a month of muffin praise

every fucking post better be laced with it, cupcake

[zMuffinMan]

mollie, dont have time to post in any depth right now, but you seem to be really, really confused about how votes work today if you think me voting you was because i think you're scum

[zMuffinMan]

you said you thought I was scum?

no, i didn't. and i don't. to be blunt, unless your scum game has vastly improved over the last couple years when i wasn't playing, i don't think you're capable of acting like you have this game as scum (sorry if you think this is mean, i don't really mean it to be, but i don't have the time or energy to invest in mafia right now to walk you through my read delicately and you are clearly misinterpreting something somewhere and i don't know where)

[zMuffinMan]

i believe feysal's role claim. i think it's more likely a scum role, though

and i don't really think feysal is playing like town anyway so i just want to see his flip

[zMuffinMan]

nacho's #1956 makes sense, it doesn't make feysal's actions any more likely to be town though

[zMuffinMan]

@nacho,

i think the claim was a last ditch 'why would scum do that?' effort tbh. not something i think i'd do and arguably it would be smarter for scum-feysal to claim something that might get counter-claims on the table or something, but i think he just went with honestly claiming his role here and seeing if it would work

the 'seen as their own alignment' is the part i think is the most interesting. particularly because it's redundant if he's town (makes perfect sense if he's scum in a multiball game though, if the role is, say, designed to give a scum cop on the other team a fighting chance). it may have been designed partially as a red herring anyway (i.e. there very well may be no scum cop) to give scum something more claimable (though im guessing it wasn't designed to be claimed as is) but it's not a town role

also should clarify, it's not just the role i think is more likely scum than town, it's the way he used it. put yourself in town-feysal's shoes and tell me why you send an anonymous message with nothing but "multiball" in it (he didn't claim any limitations on the word limit or anything so he coulda gone like "HI, IT'S FEYSAL, I HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE IT'S MULTIBALL ALSO HERE ARE MY READS ETC ETC"). i'd also argue that outright giving information that you have reason to believe it's multiball is a pretty useful thing to have on the table early d1, because that's how i'd play the role if i honestly had it as a town role (but i don't think this is a particularly strong point because i could see others not agreeing with me about this)

as far as his actual play goes, i don't get the feeling he's actually trying to scum hunt here. good example of this would be the way his dunnstral read has played out over the course of the game but his other reads haven't been great either

what do you think he's done that's town outside of the claim?

[zMuffinMan]

no im saying sending the message "multiball" and nothing else has virtually no town motivation

[zMuffinMan]

oh, and claiming that at least an aspect of your role points to multiball is something he should have done d1 if he's town

[zMuffinMan]

This is from Feysal's "I've been lynched" post. If he's scum here, he'd be banking that his fake hammered post would be getting him towncred and would still be pretending and again he crumbs having a super oddball role.

oh yeah, that reminds me, the "you have no idea" part of his last post d1 didn't look like something a town player would say. i feel let down at how not-actually-all-that-strange feysal's claimed role is considering what he hinted in italics... guessing he's leaving information out

[zMuffinMan]

those

are

things that make him more likely scum than town...

talk about why he's town without talking about his role, nacho

[zMuffinMan]

uh, yes... _especially_ if he thought he was caught for shitty reasons

[zMuffinMan]

hey nacho,

why do you think feysal italicised "you have no idea" in that post you liked?

[zMuffinMan]

hey nacho,

can you talk about why you think feysal is town without referring to his role?

[zMuffinMan]

imagining kuribo as a mermaid (flowing locks, a shell bra, a fish tail and all) made me smile a bit

[zMuffinMan]

hmmmm

maria was either strongmanned or shot twice

leaning the latter given 1-shot BP with a strongman is pretty stupid, but that would mean there's a missing kill from last night

[zMuffinMan]

i feel like lynching a ""mason""

but do the mermaid queen votes first

T

U

R

N

I

N

T

O

A

B

E

A

U

T

I

F

U

L

M

E

R

M

A

I

D

:

K

U

R

I

B

O

nothing is impossible with the power of imagination

[zMuffinMan]

i personally think mollie might be wrong about muffin being scum. call it gut

[zMuffinMan]

isn't there a missing kill on both nights?????

maria was 1-shot BP and somehow died N1, so either strongman or killed by multiple sources (stray vig who's too ashamed to claim it is a possibility, but unlikely). in the latter scenario, there's a missing kill last night

(also, you really should get over your paranoia of me)

[zMuffinMan]

just realised the beautiful mermaid counter isn't a hammer type thing (just whoever has most votes at end of day gets it)

V

o

t

e

:

N

a

c

h

o

[zMuffinMan]

kill threats (depends on who's winning and what's claimed)

[zMuffinMan]

kokichi was never publicly hammered dunnstral

also ease up on the aggression towards him, cupcake, hes really not that bad

[zMuffinMan]

pretty sure mollie claimed that d2 though (off memory, phone posting now so can't be bothered finding it)

[zMuffinMan]

im amicable towards people i like

[zMuffinMan]

i am pretty sure i killed you early last time i was scum in a multiball

tbh id probably kill you early again just so i dont have to deal with you spamming that im scum

[zMuffinMan]

don't agree it's optimal play to lynch them today. If they're scum they're not getting far, if they're masons then we're wasting a lynch when we didn't need to

yeah but a. they're probably scum and b. if this is multiball and theyre scum, then the longer they live, the more annoying it gets to have to deal with them (e.g. say it's 7v2v1 right now and we mislynch today and it goes to 4v2v1 tomorrow, we run a pretty good risk of hitting a kingmaker scenario)

on the off chance that they're town, id rather force scum to (attempt to) kill the other after a lynch

[zMuffinMan]

mollie, im just using rainbows lately for shits and giggles. it's nothing to do with this game

[zMuffinMan]

wait a minute, cupcake is a guy?

my world view is shattered

[zMuffinMan]

i could see nosferatu being scum

started rethinking my cupcake read for reasons that may or may not be very good but probably not interested in lynching there in the near future (add a whole bunch of asterisks here because it's dependent on some things i may be way off about)

i dont think lld was busing feysal (even though i know she will bus deadweight at the drop of a hat if it puts her in a better light, i dont think that's what happened here)

i still think lynching a """"mason"""" is the correct choice today

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Staeg

question: does anyone think that the "masons" are town by play?

because it's mildly annoying that people keep saying things like "it's self-resolving" and that we shouldn't lynch them because of their claim

[zMuffinMan]

reiterating my question: does anyone think staeg or nacho look town by play?

[zMuffinMan]

watch as nacho comes in and hammers and laughs in everyone's face at how he can get away with it

wait for it...

[zMuffinMan]

lol... i do admire the fact you can be as brazen as you're currently being and still have people look the other way somehow

kudos, sir

[zMuffinMan]

staeg

[zMuffinMan]

he says staeg too

i was speaking on his behalf

[zMuffinMan]

nosferatu can you just claim (inc starsigns) instead of acting like this? ty

[zMuffinMan]

anyone who has experience with nosferatu tell me whether that sort of reaction is par for the course as either alignment? id do digging myself but im

lazy

at work and limited bludge time

[zMuffinMan]

Angry replace out = town

In general, not Nos meta

depends on the context

felt like a bit of an overreaction here to a relatively mild post from cupcamn, thus the question

[zMuffinMan]

indeed. thus asking whether this is usual

i might do the digging myself on lunch break

[zMuffinMan]

i thought cupcake looked like scum d1

i thought cupcake could be scum d2 but less sure

im now thinking i might have been wrong about cupcake

[zMuffinMan]

in slightly less cryptic (but still crytpic and ambiguous) terms, i think cupcake figured ~something~ out and that might mean he's town, not 100% though

[zMuffinMan]

maybe

[zMuffinMan]

probably not in the way youre thinking it is (as in i dont have an inno on him or anything)

[zMuffinMan]

uh, dont think lld is playing like she did in the game youre referring to mollie

[zMuffinMan]

p sure 2388 is camn and 1896 is cupcake though

[zMuffinMan]

I disagree. 1 of her posts is a direct paraphrasing of 1 of her posts in that game so don't hand me that

*shrug*

i think you might be mistaking just how much of the game youre referring to i read. i started reading that game after i replaced out of another game i was in where LLD was scum and i noticed some similarities in her play across both games (which im not seeing here) but i only started loosely following that game around the day titus got lynched

youre gonna have to be more specific

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin what is Mollie read

(probably) town

[zMuffinMan]

the only person strongly pushing Staeg-Nacho connection was... Muffin.

THIS MIGHT BE TRUE (UNSURE, CAN'T REMEMBER) BUT I THINK THE LINK BETWEEN YOU TWO WAS FAIRLY OBVIOUS AND THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE WOULDN'T HAVE POINTED IT OUT IS IF THEY DIDN'T CARE, NOT BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T SPOT IT IF THEY WERE ACTUALLY LOOKING. BESIDES WHICH, I FIND IT AMUSING THAT YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I SPOTTED A LINK BETWEEN YOU TWO AND YOU STILL THINK I'M SCUM WHO WAS PUSHING THAT LINK LOL - LIKE, UM, WHAT? DO YOU THINK IM SCUM WHO KNEW YOU WERE MASONS AND DECIDED TO PUSH YOU TWO ANYWAY OR SOMETHING?

AND NO, I DON'T FOR A SECOND BELIEVE THAT YOU WOULDN'T CLAIM MASONS HERE AS SCUM. YOU WOULD 100% DO IT IF YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH IT AND I THINK YOU DID THINK THAT HERE AND VOILA LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE WITH PEOPLE STILL NOT WANTING TO LYNCH YOU. SURPRISE FUCKING SURPRISE

AND NO, I DON'T FOR A SECOND BELIEVE THAT YOU WOULDN'T BE ALL BUDDY-BUDDY WITH STAEG, ESPECIALLY IF THIS IS A MULTISCUM GAME WHICH SEEMS MORE LIKELY THAN LOL-LIMITED-STRONGMAN-WHO-DECIDED-TO-GO-ALL-OUT-ON-MARIAR-N1

PS: I'D LIKE TO HEAR YOUR THEORIES ABOUT WHY THIS SUPPOSED LIMITED STRONGMAN WENT ALL OUT ON MARIAR N1 AND HOW THAT RELATES TO ME. TIA

PPS: SORRY, MY CAPS LOCK KEY IS BROKEN

[zMuffinMan]

muffin made his case for why we could be scum, then moved on

LOL, I'M A REALIST. I DON'T TRY TO GET PEOPLE LYNCHED IF I DON'T THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE SUPPORT FOR IT UNLESS I'M VIRTUALLY 100% SURE THEY'RE SCUM AND I WASN'T. IF YOU WERE SCUM, THAT WASN'T GOING TO CHANGE COME LATER DAYS AND THERE WASN'T SUPPORT FOR YOU SO I HUNTED ELSEWHERE. THIS IS HOW I PLAY

See. Nacho is town.

HOW DID YOU READ HIS POSTS THERE AND COME TO THAT CONCLUSION?

[zMuffinMan]

CUPCAKE,

PRETTY SURE YOU OWE ME ONE MONTH OF MUFFIN PRAISE

START WHENEVER

[zMuffinMan]

HE COULD BE A SERIAL KILLER, IM NOT SURE WHAT YOUR POINT IS HERE THOUGH

[zMuffinMan]

MAYBE HE ACTUALLY DID SEND THE MESSAGE TO DUNNSTRAL AND WAS LYING ABOUT THAT AND WASN'T ACTUALLY REDIRECTED (IIRC THAT CLAIM CAME AFTER DGB CLAIMED SO MAYBE HE JUST FIT IT AROUND THAT TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE HE WAS REDIRECTED)

IN ANY CASE, THIS PROBABLY ISN'T GOING TO BE A FRUITFUL CONVERSATION SINCE IT'S ALL SPECULATION

[zMuffinMan]

ASCETIC IS A FAIRLY STANDARD MODIFIER FOR SKS IME

[zMuffinMan]

UM, PRETTY SURE IT'S USUALLY OBVIOUS FAIRLY QUICKLY THAT IT'S MULTIBALL SO IT'S NOT LIKE HE GAVE AWAY STATE SECRETS IF IT IS (THIS JUST HAPPENS TO BE ONE OF THE FEW GAMES WHERE IT'S LESS OBVIOUS IF IT IS OR NOT). AND IT PROBABLY HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH HIS FAKE-CLAIM (WHICH IIRC HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH MULTIBALL, I CAN'T BE BOTHERED GOING BACK AND CHECKING)

VEERING OFF TOPIC, IM STARTING TO DOUBT MY CUPCAMN READ AGAIN - MAY NEED TO REREAD. UNSURE ABOUT NOSEFRAUT - LIKE THAT HE'S VOTING THE """MASONS""" BUT NOT A SUPER BIG FAN OF THE FACT HE'S BASICALLY PROD-DODGING ATM

[zMuffinMan]

FEYSAL'S? DIDNT HE CLAIM THE REASON HE SENT THE MESSAGE BECAUSE HIS ROLE SAID IT WAS MULTIBALL OR SOMETHING?

[zMuffinMan]

YEAH, SORRY. DIDN'T REALISE FATE WAS LIKE MASHING YOUR FACE INTO THE KEYBOARD AND YELLING "PROD DODGE OR I'LL MAKE YOU PROD DODGE, BITCH"

MY BAD

[zMuffinMan]

Do you want to talk about this?

not really, no. maybe tomorrow if im still alive

These points are strengthened if this is actually multiball, where claiming masons goes from really dumb to unbelievably dumb.

if this is multiball,

scenario 1) you're scum and you don't gambit, you've got a pretty hard uphill battle when staeg goes down d1 (which was almost certainly going to happen before the claim)
scenario 2) you gambit and, you know, just like what's happening, neither of you are dead come d3 (and probably d4 as well)

even if this isn't multiball and feysal was SK and this is like 10:3:1, i could still reasonably see you making this play if your other partner was in a good position. i don't consider "it's stupid" (it's really not when people give you this much of a fucking free pass) and "i bus" good counter-arguments and i think you and staeg have been playing like scum

I don't know why you say limited strogman.

because including mariar's role with a full strongman is utterly stupid design. if there's a strongman, it's limited in some way and they didn't seem to care about that and went all out. i think two shots on her is more likely

Why are we believing anything Feysal has said again?

what? you said something like "why would feysal out multiball" and i suggested it might have something to do with the claim he used. you asked how the claim fits into things

nothing to do with believing anything he said, just answering the question you originally posed

[zMuffinMan]

also i think if you really thought i was scum, you'd have tried a lot harder to get me lynched today over nosferatu (unless you think im scum with nosferatu). all youve done today is argue with me about why youre not scum

[zMuffinMan]

i have my own thoughts on that but i don't think there's much point in discussing it in twilight

@casper

[zMuffinMan]

pretty sure nacho was hammer

also tumbleweed

[zMuffinMan]

the masons are scum and we should have lynched one yesterday. don't think we can afford to today because it potentially puts us in a kingmaker position

should probably mass claim

[zMuffinMan]

my role doesn't tell me anything about cupcake. i thought cupcake had either copped me or had some way of knowing what my role was because he was strongly hinting at something like that (and the fact that i'm not dying for it suggests he wasn't worried about me handing out more stuff if he knew what i was)

i'm an inventor (virgo+something i forget = scientist). i don't know what my inventions actually are until after each night phase. i pick a player each night and based on how my star signs interact with theirs i get an invention i can hand out the following day. i can't pick the same player more than once in a game. N1 cupcake (gave invention to kuribo d2), N2 nacho got nothing, N3 LLD but there's no point in outing what it is. i'll give it to someone, they can say what it is if they want

[zMuffinMan]

*clap* *clap* as brilliant as ever, dunnstral

[zMuffinMan]

didn't think it mattered who i chose so i just chose whoever i felt like picking at the time

[zMuffinMan]

i asked fate whether i can know what sort of inventions i get or how they're determined. he said no and it's based on how signs interact

so yeah

[zMuffinMan]

wherever he talked about ~reasons~ and some other place d2

and d3 at some point

[zMuffinMan]

PErsonally, we see this day as being quite straight forward.

Kuribo and DGB are still town in our eyes, feysal is fairly obvscum, dunnstral still needs to die for abject stupidity, and muffins can maybe go in the townpile.

Mommy's almost back from her trip to go buy cigs so we don't really need to read anymore hooray~

what made you move muffina to town?

~*~REASONS~*~

oh yeah this and some other point d2 but i cant be bothered finding it right now. just look at how his attitude changed towards me after d1 though

[zMuffinMan]

the masons _are_ scum, that has nothing to do with cupcake

also i stopped thinking he was a cop when i went back and read his posts (he never puts me strongly town but his attitude did change toward me d2). i figured he targeted me n1 or figured something out and it didn't necessarily make him town like i thought it did, ergo me rethinking it

[zMuffinMan]

the thing i gave kuribo (1-shot forced bodyguard - he targets someone else, if he's targeted for a kill, the person kuribo targets dies instead)

[zMuffinMan]

MUFFINS WHICH NIGHT YOU TARGETED KURIBO

i gave kuribo the invention d2

[zMuffinMan]

full-claim role and targets cupcake

[zMuffinMan]

i could believe you didn't know what casper claimed lol. you mentioned her like twice in your ISO and they were just mentions in passing

but i doubt there's a full town tracker + weakened tracker

[zMuffinMan]

lol, staeg's not even trying anymore

hes called dunnstral and kuribo town, so from his pov the game should basically be solved but he's asking these weak questions (as though the answer to 2531, for example, was going to tell him anything about LLD if he was actually on the fence) and making uncontroversial statements like 2532 (which doesn't even really make sense)

[zMuffinMan]

voting a "mason" today is not the correct play. it potentially puts us in a 2:1:1 tomorrow

[zMuffinMan]

im guessing no one is going to own up to doing that

(not going to be at all surprised if that was a result of some power staeg got from a star sign choice though lol)

@fate,

what actually happens after we do or don't vote dunnstral? day ends?

[zMuffinMan]

@cupcamn,

can you claim your _full_ role? ty

(as in ability/abilities, modifiers, your targets, etc)

[zMuffinMan]

i didnt target kuribo n2, i targeted him d2

your role conflict is with LLD