OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y (GAME OVER)


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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:53 pm

Post by the worst »

VOTE COUNT 1.11



Sando (0)
~
skitter30 (0)
~
AP (0)
~
brassherald (1)
~ BuJaber,
BuJaber (1)
~ Enigma,
Ausuka (0)
~
Skygazer (0)
~
vulcan logician (1)
~ Sando,
ceejayvinoya (0)
~
ruru (0)
~
ofrhz (0)
~
Invisibility (2)
~ brassherald, OkaPoka,
OkaPoka (2)
~ AP, Invisibility,
Enigma (6)
~ Ausuka, Skygazer, ruru, ofrhz, skitter30, ceejayvinoya,

NOT VOTING:
vulcan logician,

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

day one will end in (expired on 2018-07-25 18:30:00)


mod notes:

- thanks ruru for inadvertently reminding me the labyrinth of spirits is coming out in september
- skitter30 v/la Fridays & Saturdays
- quack
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
--
intermittent v/la until late march
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:57 pm

Post by Sando »

In post 354, ruru wrote:- Don't cc fakeclaims in general, I think there are a lot of cases where we decide to lynch a claim regardless of whether it's true or not
I think I love you...

I'm back peeps! I'll post a bit more in the coming hours.

Can't say I love the wagon dynamics of Enigma, but then they're also pretty scummy...he wasn't my digger though, BuJaber was, I'll post why once I've showered and eaten etc :)
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:27 pm

Post by AP »

@ruru.@Oka: Can we like.. shut this conversation about claims off? If I was scum I would have loved you both for the amount of ideas you're giving me.

P.S. I am now leaning town on Oka, I'm more inclined to believe it's his argumentative playstyle that's annoying me, but I can certainly see the town motive behind his play, and I think it bad for scum!him to do this.

UNVOTE:
YEAH BABY YEAH!
Oh, behave :]
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:50 pm

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In post 377, AP wrote:@ruru.@Oka: Can we like.. shut this conversation about claims off? If I was scum I would have loved you both for the amount of ideas you're giving me.
Ruru's 354 I've quote is all that needs to be said, don't instantly CC a claim.
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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:58 pm

Post by Sando »

In post 12, BuJaber wrote:I think we can safely assume that no two people with the same number are scum together.
So this was the first BuJaber post, and instantly creating some lovely WIFOM for everyone to digest.
In post 32, BuJaber wrote:
In post 17, ofrhz wrote:
In post 12, BuJaber wrote: I think we can safely assume that no two people with the same number are scum together.
let's not
Is this how you normally are?

Because your tone rubs me the wrong way. I feel dismissed and belittled.

VOTE: ofrhz
I'm gonna assume at this point that BuJ is pretty serious about his WIFOM creation.
In post 75, BuJaber wrote:I think Sando might be scum here. That comment saying brass is right about him comes off as a disarming tactic.

VOTE: Sando

@Sando - what is CJ?
Here my post to Brass is given as reason for me being scum. For context, my comment to Brass was that he was correct that I would not go along with a 3xscum on the same number but that I would have gone along with 2xscum picking the same number. Just to be clear, I'm indirectly disagreeing with BuJabers "scum didn't pick the same number", and get scumread for it.

Also asks me for a read on CJ that never gets followed up.
In post 157, BuJaber wrote:Random prediction time : 1 one of the people who looked up previous games is scum.
Oh look, a "random" prediction that just so happens to point at me and Brass.
In post 197, BuJaber wrote:See a townie can research and make assumptions based on past games but they would still be rooted in WIFOM. Will the current scum team follow the trends or won't they?

Scum researching tells them exactly how past scum did it and how successful they were and then they make the decision to go along with past success or go a different route but then in the game ghread they will likely try to subtly make us assume the opposite of what they actually did. Their arguments look better if they research first.

A townie doesn't care if scum is playing optimally or not. They just want to identify them. Scum would want to increase their chances.
Ok here we go with the digging. So this is saying that a townie doesn't care if scum are playing optimally or not, but BuJaber is flat out telling us that they are playing "optimally" and coordinating to get the best PRs. He's also accusing me of playing optimally like scum would and picking the most popular town-picked number... You can accuse me of creating WIFOM or you can accuse me of playing "optimally", not both.
In post 329, BuJaber wrote:If brass is town he's scum. I felt that he agreed with his meta analysis so that he wouldn't analyze him further.
This just shows that BuJaber isn't actually reading context. I agreed with Brass on what I'd do as SCUM, and I agreed that he should continue to consider me and another 4 picker as scum possibilities because it's within my meta. How on earth can BuJaber think I'm trying to get Brass off my back with this?

Over the course of this game, BuJaber has simply picked two people who agreed on a single point about one of them possibly being scum and contorted himself circles to make them scummy whilst throwing a boatload of WIFOM out there.

VOTE: BuJaber
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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:01 pm

Post by BuJaber »

Player A: "I think x would do this and this as scum"

Player X: 'Yeah you're absolutely right I would that as scum'

Player A (to self): "hmm, x agreed with me. Why would x do that as scum? Also I wanted a discussion about/with x, but x ended the conversation"

You don't see how that would be beneficial to scum?

Let's go about it a different way.
Town talks about one of the scum's meta and is pretty accurate. How do you imagine scum responds to that? I see 3 options.
A) disagree and argue that it is not correct
B) ignore
C) agree

If there's another option please enlighten me. But basically A and B suck for scum. They will likely bring a lot of suspicion on them. The person with the meta read would definitely pursue it at a minimum even if others ignore it. And judging by past games if a past game is linked to prove that the scum player does play the way the town player suggested then that is probably going to end up lynching the scum.
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:15 pm

Post by BuJaber »

If you don't like WIFOM stop playing open games.
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:16 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

@BuJaber but you do agree that creating wifom is more beneficial for scum than town right?
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:25 pm

Post by Sando »

In post 380, BuJaber wrote:But basically A and B suck for scum. They will likely bring a lot of suspicion on them. The person with the meta read would definitely pursue it at a minimum even if others ignore it.
Ignoring it is by far and away the safest play. You're literally attacking me for agreeing, how is that safe?
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:30 pm

Post by Sando »

In post 381, BuJaber wrote:If you don't like WIFOM stop playing open games.
BuJaber casts snark, it was ineffective
In post 383, Sando wrote:
In post 380, BuJaber wrote:But basically A and B suck for scum. They will likely bring a lot of suspicion on them. The person with the meta read would definitely pursue it at a minimum even if others ignore it.
Ignoring it is by far and away the safest play. You're literally attacking me for agreeing, how is that safe?
Sando casts WIFOM
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:38 pm

Post by Skygazer »

In post 346, Enigma wrote:Wagons in RVS mean nothing.
Well, maybe if you did maybe try to look a bit into it, you might understand where I'm coming from and my logic, rather than stubbornly dismissing everything I say and repeating the same arguments we've already touched on. Yes stubborn.

Let's not waste our time further.
Here's the thing: you keep saying it's probability based and rational and you like where your vote is (yet it's somehow semi-rvs) but:

1) You can't just say something is more likely and not back it up. That's what you're doing. I know what game theory is and you haven't done any mathematical models to actually back up your claims. I would not be surprised in the slightest if there's no significant changes in probability based on two players having the same numbers.

2) You're not even doing anything with this vote that you supposedly still like. You're not pressuring BuJaber at all and instead throwing shade at other people.

Finally you're trying to dismiss my arguments rather than respond to them by calling me stubborn and saying I keep dismissing your points. I touched on (1) before and you never addressed it. I've read your other points and they aren't backed by logic at all, you just keep saying "lol game theory." And a wagon on page two is still a wagon and if you're stating that it was "semi-rvs" then it wasn't even entirely rvs anyways. So your point about it not mattering doesn't stand.
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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:41 pm

Post by Skygazer »

I don't know enough about mafia to have an opinion on hypoclaiming but I'm not opposed if the town is down.
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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:42 pm

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im going to actually have to agree here with the folks on the enigma wagon that enigma's refusal to take his semi-rvs vote off or make a case against bujaber is fishy. furthermore enigma's admission to not really scumhunting is throwing me for a loop here, we are 16 pages in soo
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:46 pm

Post by Skygazer »

If Enigma flips scum then Oka is a likely candidate for a partner
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:49 pm

Post by BuJaber »

In post 382, OkaPoka wrote:@BuJaber but you do agree that creating wifom is more beneficial for scum than town right?
Yes and if you've noticed I've reduced my WIFOM significantly. I got the discussion I wanted about dtaft picks and I stopped talking about it. I got the discussion I wanted about PLing ruru and I stopped talking about it.
In post 383, Sando wrote:
In post 380, BuJaber wrote:But basically A and B suck for scum. They will likely bring a lot of suspicion on them. The person with the meta read would definitely pursue it at a minimum even if others ignore it.
Ignoring it is by far and away the safest play. You're literally attacking me for agreeing, how is that safe?
Then we fundamentally disagree. Ignoring it is terrible.


Also why do people always do that with me. Just because you are claiming I have misread you doesn't mean you have to disagree with every point I make.

I'm right about this. And you agreeing with me about it doesn't automatically make you scum. Incidentally option C is also a viable option for town because townies are honest and forthcoming. The difference between town and scum is that town don't have to worry about getting suspected too much, so options A and B are less problematic. (Though if a townie picks option A that means that either the guy talking about them is scum for faking the meta read or the guy is clueless about the townie's meta and needs to be corrected).

Yes I am but if you had picked option A or B you'd have even more people attacking you I suspect.

@ruru - in the link you posted they talked about "hypo-cop'ing" but not "hypo-inno". Could you explain what it means?
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:50 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

In post 388, Skygazer wrote:If Enigma flips scum then Oka is a likely candidate for a partner
im ok with this
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:50 pm

Post by Skygazer »

Addendum to : Both are avoiding and discrediting each other's wagons up until Oka's sudden shift to scumreading Enigma just now (). It doesn't sit well with me.
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:51 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

enigma is town because how the wagon formed is scummy as hell
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:51 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

scum is in here
{ Skygazer, ruru, ofrhz, skitter30}
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:52 pm

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+ cj if i wasn't townreading him
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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:53 pm

Post by Skygazer »

In post 387, OkaPoka wrote:im going to actually have to agree here with the folks on the enigma wagon that enigma's refusal to take his semi-rvs vote off or make a case against bujaber is fishy. furthermore enigma's admission to not really scumhunting is throwing me for a loop here, we are 16 pages in soo
In post 392, OkaPoka wrote:enigma is town because how the wagon formed is scummy as hell
lmao
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:54 pm

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im saying it's fishy but he is town

because how the wagon formed is scummy as hell
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:55 pm

Post by Sando »

[quote="In post 392, OkaPoka"][/quote]
This is just silly.

Enigma has been acting scummy - per your own 387 amongst other things
Enigma's wagon has formed in a scummy wagon - I'd agree with you there

One suggests he's scum, one suggests he's town, I can 100% guarantee we're wrong on one of those, and right on the other. I don't know why you consider the wagon one definitive.
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:59 pm

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because when the wagon formed enigma wasn't really guilty imo of these traits

but the fact that he still isn't changing is getting weirder and weirder

im saying fishy because i don't want to specify scummy, maybe he just has a big ego and wants to stick to his guns
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:00 pm

Post by OkaPoka »

and town often do double down
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