Open 730: Donner Party [Terminado]
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ive played with him a couple years back and although he was trolly he was a lot more substantiveIn post 217, ManateeDude wrote:
I'm told it's his meta and NAI.In post 214, OkaPoka wrote:VOTE: not_mafia
why are u doing naked votes and doing nothing of substance- OkaPoka
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why do u only have town reads and null reads and no scum readsIn post 220, Eragon wrote:Towncore
—Eragon
—AP
—Ejjinami
Town Lean
-LuckyOtter
-Sando
-ManateeDude
-UnRealSeal
Null
-okadoka
-Not_Mafia
Neutral null(less not-read and more I could go either way so convince me)
-Ceejay- OkaPoka
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whats ur prior experience with mafia if anyIn post 225, Eragon wrote:
because they were based of MM's spewIn post 223, OkaPoka wrote:
why do u only have town reads and null reads and no scum readsIn post 220, Eragon wrote:Towncore
—Eragon
—AP
—Ejjinami
Town Lean
-LuckyOtter
-Sando
-ManateeDude
-UnRealSeal
Null
-okadoka
-Not_Mafia
Neutral null(less not-read and more I could go either way so convince me)
-Ceejay- OkaPoka
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explain ur thoughtprocess
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https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Donner_Party
looks like they do but there also is only one maf left- OkaPoka
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dont think vla mattersIn post 260, Eragon wrote:does anyone else find it odd that Sando voted the only person V/LA and is calling them flat out SK?
but sk matters i think?- OkaPoka
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who do u think maf targettedIn post 262, Sando wrote:
So I think you're saying this here already, but 100% the SK targeted Black, the SK is one-shot immune from RB as well as getting NKd, so there's no way to stop the SK kill N1 if they're alive, which they are.In post 219, AP wrote:About the Night action: 1 NK only either means (a) Mafia hit the SK & Vig got RB'd, (b) Vig hit the SK & Mafia got RB'd, (c) both SK & Mafia targeted Blackstar & Vig got RB'd (can't see the town Vig targeting Blackstar to be honest), (d) Someone holstered (and you can repeat all possibilities for where the other NK went).- OkaPoka
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sure but both town would also push vla because they dont discriminate against who they think are scum.In post 265, Eragon wrote:
uhh it matters that they are inactive and an easy push/mis-lynch.In post 261, OkaPoka wrote:
dont think vla mattersIn post 260, Eragon wrote:does anyone else find it odd that Sando voted the only person V/LA and is calling them flat out SK?
but sk matters i think?
What could be a possibility is Scum!Sando who attacked SK!Ejji and is trying to get Ejji lynched before they come back
or another possibility
did something spicy happen last night Sando?- OkaPoka
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or maf hit skIn post 266, ManateeDude wrote:So either
1) Maf and SK had the same target
2) The roleblocker blocked the goon- OkaPoka
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so you think vig shot n1?In post 273, AP wrote:Regarding Sando: I have him down as 100% Town. I did a reread during the night and concluded he can neither be the SK nor MM's partner.
Regarding Unreal: I can see him posting that EoD post after the hammer. It could be out of frustration he was too late to save his partner. It could also be "I'm sorry I couldn't get on the wagon for town credit, and I need to justify that".
Regarding the SK (whoever that might be): It is highly likely they are now known by either the Mafia or the Vig. The fact we only had one NK (i.e. 2 NKs were blocked) = someone hit the SK. Unless the SK themselves didn't kill, or both the SK and the Mafia targeted Blackstar; there's a missing NK even with the RB blocking one of the Vig/Mafia. This means the SK is likely going down tonight. (Funny fact: That would be less likely if we lynched the second Mafia today, in case it was them who tried to eat the SK last night).- OkaPoka
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In post 277, OkaPoka wrote:
so you think vig shot n1?In post 273, AP wrote:Regarding Sando: I have him down as 100% Town. I did a reread during the night and concluded he can neither be the SK nor MM's partner.
Regarding Unreal: I can see him posting that EoD post after the hammer. It could be out of frustration he was too late to save his partner. It could also be "I'm sorry I couldn't get on the wagon for town credit, and I need to justify that".
Regarding the SK (whoever that might be): It is highly likely they are now known by either the Mafia or the Vig. The fact we only had one NK (i.e. 2 NKs were blocked) = someone hit the SK. Unless the SK themselves didn't kill, or both the SK and the Mafia targeted Blackstar; there's a missing NK even with the RB blocking one of the Vig/Mafia. This means the SK is likely going down tonight. (Funny fact: That would be less likely if we lynched the second Mafia today, in case it was them who tried to eat the SK last night).- OkaPoka
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if im reading this right there is a chance you have a chance at knowing who sk is then right?In post 289, AP wrote:
Maybe they did.. maybe they didn't. If I was them I would have.In post 277, OkaPoka wrote:
so you think vig shot n1?In post 273, AP wrote:Regarding Sando: I have him down as 100% Town. I did a reread during the night and concluded he can neither be the SK nor MM's partner.
Regarding Unreal: I can see him posting that EoD post after the hammer. It could be out of frustration he was too late to save his partner. It could also be "I'm sorry I couldn't get on the wagon for town credit, and I need to justify that".
Regarding the SK (whoever that might be): It is highly likely they are now known by either the Mafia or the Vig. The fact we only had one NK (i.e. 2 NKs were blocked) = someone hit the SK. Unless the SK themselves didn't kill, or both the SK and the Mafia targeted Blackstar; there's a missing NK even with the RB blocking one of the Vig/Mafia. This means the SK is likely going down tonight. (Funny fact: That would be less likely if we lynched the second Mafia today, in case it was them who tried to eat the SK last night).- OkaPoka
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oh im voting nm in spite of meta because he cant keep using meta to defend his playIn post 306, LuckyOtter wrote:Oka, nice to see you again.
If you think meta is dumb, why is it one of the reasons you're voting NM?
Do you have any other reads yet? I promise not to scumread you this time for posting reads right away
honestly im kinda in a weird limbo with reads rn because im getting a lot of nulls so im poking around to see who to go back and iso and deathtunnel- OkaPoka
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There is a higher chance of landing town than scum.In post 313, AP wrote:@CJV: Really?? You know, after my reread and by association and "best guessing" ..etc I had ruled you out of being anti-town despite not particularly liking your posts of D1. You faking total ignorance here still rubs me the wrong way and I can't be too sure you're not the Mafia/SK after all.
@Oka: I have been coming from the PoV Vig always shoots here, since it is an "investigative vig shot" so to speak, but now I can see someone who holstered bc they weren't confident enough and thus were of hitting a TPR.
Basically the odds of RB blocking the Mafia/Vig are the exact same odds of Mafia/Vig having hit the SK. I don't know how to calculate the odds of a Vig not shooting because that's not explicitly a mechanical thing, but rather a reads and personality thing.
Now that everyone has posted in the new day, I would assume that the Cop got a clear on their target or they would've claimed the guilty (that would have eliminated one of the 2 anti-town NK's, so absolutely no point is hinting a guilty rather than explicitly announce it).
This means my lynch pool for today is in Unreal/CJ/N_M (in that order of preference)
So it's investigave at the cost of town.
Unless you are pretty sure of scum- OkaPoka
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In post 216, ManateeDude wrote:
This was the only comment sando made on MM, and later in the day didn't comment at all. I feel like this was a weak attempt at distancing. Also the excessive on smth I felt was T v T gives me scummy vibes.In post 90, Sando wrote:
I think decent chance of scum in ejj/MM, and I don't think they're scum together. 44 through 49 did not feel organic to me and I'm trying to put my finger on anything specific in there, it feels a bit buddying to me. They're both disagreeing with a hypo claim (which is fine to disagree with) using talk about whether thecopGS should claim or not if threatened with lynching (which is not a fine conversation, obviously they should and that has no bearing on us hypoing or not). They also both focus on thecopGS while ignoring the other PRs, who is the biggest threat to SK since no block there, and obviously a big threat to Mafia as well
VOTE: Sando
Also agree with eragon wagon was probably pure of mafia.Also the excessive on smth I felt was T v T gives me scummy vibes.
clarify please @manatee dude- OkaPoka
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u know right now im only really getting a scumread on not mafia, nothing is really sticking out to anyone else that suggests them being mafia to me because imo no real actions have occurred that seem to have solely scum motivation behind it.In post 358, LuckyOtter wrote:Oka, aside from N_M, what are your reads so far?
unless u want my gut reads based on how ppl talk then sure i can give it to you but i promise it wont be helpful because my gut sucks- OkaPoka
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Do I think MM was bussed? Maybe
Do I think Sando sussing but not voting CJ is suspicious? No
Do you I read you and seal as TvT? You and CJ? CJ swap? Here's the thing, both town and scum have legitimate justifications for doing these actions so I don't really know do I.
Does it worry me Eragon has too many townreads? Yeah, but that's not going to be indicating me of alignment. It's a playstyle choice people make.
so yeah im just going to sit on not_mafia because I don't see how his play has any town motivation behind it.- OkaPoka
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3-4 years ago?In post 376, Sando wrote:
Oka how long ago was this? You took a break and have come back correct? So you played with him pre-break but not since coming back?In post 337, OkaPoka wrote:i played with him a long time ago and he was not like this
yes
yes- OkaPoka
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does not_mafia not give you bad vibesIn post 379, UnrealSeal wrote:UNVOTE:
I had originally voted OkaPoka due to a theory that came about from his 304 (that being he was SK trying to point out Vig to the last mafia). I don't like the insistence on N_M but I don't think anti-town would push it this long and his continued play doesn't fit the original theory.'
With that said, I am at a loss for actual scum-reads so I'll vote the person who gives me the most bad vibes
VOTE: AP- OkaPoka
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tell me how you sort n_m from scum/town based on what he has postedIn post 134, UnrealSeal wrote:
It's N_M's meta. He plays in a way that makes him very easy to sort.In post 126, Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
N_M didn't post enough for me to read him. Why do you believe he's town for some unexplained votes?- OkaPoka
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the only world in which abandoing a wagon that is potentially gaining steam (my wagon with lucky joining unreal's vote) is less safe than starting a vote on no-one else wagon (AP) is one in which AP is scumread/unreal has a lead.
I don't see this as a scumSEAL play, rather I don't see this as the optimal way for scumSEAL to play this game. The safer and higher winrate play imo for a scumSEAL is to stick on me and try to get others to join on my wagon b/c AP is townread and would be a tough lynch to sell while I'd be an easier lynch target.
Seal gets the benefit of not being a bandwagoner for hardpushing me to get lynched too.- OkaPoka
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i guess if he has no intent on lynching then you are right and I am wrongIn post 406, Sando wrote:
So you're saying that if Unreal flips town or claims a PR you're not going to have some piercing questions for those on the wagon? Sitting on a wagon is not "safe", or at least it shouldn't be. Vote-parking, which Unreal specifically says he's doing, is "safe" because you're saying that you're not really pushing a lynch, you just want to park your vote somewhere, preferably somewhere where it's not about to become the hot button topic.In post 400, OkaPoka wrote:the only world in which abandoing a wagon that is potentially gaining steam (my wagon with lucky joining unreal's vote) is less safe than starting a vote on no-one else wagon (AP) is one in which AP is scumread/unreal has a lead.
You're also ignoring that both times he votes, he specifically says "I have no real scumreads", how is that not an indicator of playing it safe and expressing a lack of conviction in votes/reads?
I'm away for the next 24 hours or so. Please be aware that you have N_M in the game with a penchant for lolhammering. You also have Manatee in the game with a penchant for stealing N_Ms lolhammer
but we do not yet know he has no intent on pushing AP and lynching him, its been like a day since he voted him and we are pretty early so he still has time to hard push- OkaPoka
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I'm bored lets do an analysis of what N_M has done this game.
He has made 8 posts day 1 and 2 posts day 2, for a grand total of 10 posts!
Three of which are solely commenting on a joke he wanted to be posted, a conversation with the mod. Technically speaking, he did talk to Sando in one of these posts on the subject of jokes, but he did so in an unmeaningful manner, refering to jokes again. Remember this is also the stage of RVS, 3/10 posts from Not_Mafia are in RVS and do not create a real conversation with any players. It can be argued he was conversing with Sando here, but really, was that his intention? I believe that he made these 3 posts as a meme, a shitpost, with no intention of hunting mafia. I mean it is hard to scumhunt in RVS so we can forgive him for that one, but I think it is glaring when 30% of your posts are in RVS and are directed mainly towards the moderator.
Spoiler: joke posts
Not_Mafia has 4 of his 10 posts (40%!) as merely naked vote posts! No explanation, no question, no commentary, just merely a vote and that is all. Some can argue that we can forgive not_mafia because "meta" and that well technically he is doing something. But this also means that he is generating no content whatsoever, he is merely another vote and that is all. At the root of it all, the strength of all town roles is the ability to voice their opinions and to vote. Not_mafia with his playstyle has essentially removed the voice aspect of playing town, if he is even playing town. Explain to me how 40% of someone's posts can merely be a naked vote and that being an indicator of pro-town, and indicator that he is indeed not scum. Point to me a game in which Not_mafia has had 40% of his posts be simply a vote and that is all.
Spoiler: vote posts
2 of his 10 posts (20%!!!!!!) are again talking to the mod and that is all. Here Not_mafia is arguing the definition of twilight with the moderator. One can argue this is not alignment indicative, but really? Is it productive to have a fifth of your posts be arguing with the moderator what the definition of certain terminology and game states should be? Is it really indicating that not_mafia is playing to the town's win condition when a fifth of his posts are about what twilight should be? Any town player has the right to question what the moderator's definition of certain things should be, I am not arguing with that, but is it town when you have your most complex ideas and sentences presented only when talking to the moderator rather than creating a conversation with the rest of town?
Spoiler: talking to the mod
Here, finally, not_mafia asks a question to the rest of town. A whole 10% of his posts are generating content. A simple question, excellent. But let me ask you this, is it really town to have only 10% of your posts be content/content generation? Also not_mafia has not followed up on this question, he has remained in the shadows once again.
Spoiler: finally
3/10 posts by Not_mafia are solely on the topic of "jokes"
4/10 posts by Not_Mafia are talking to the moderator and the moderator alone.
4/10 posts by Not_mafia are solely naked votes
1/10 posts by Not_mafia have the potential to generate content.
9/10 posts by Not_mafia have zero potential to create discussion, generate content, or engages in a meaningful way with the other members of this village
So I ask all of you, what alignment has to gain from limited discussion? What alignment has to gain from no meaningful engagements? What alignment has to gain from town slowing down, forced to compromise on last minute lynches? What alignment has to gain from a weakened town, burdened with inactivity, and the potential to even reach no lynches?
It's not like not_mafia is unable to formulate words beyond the structure of "vote:name"
He has proven that he can speak when talking to the mod, he has proven he is paying attention when discussion twilight situations, he has proven that he reads the game when he asks his only question.
So why aren't we voting up not_mafia? Meta? Show me a game where he has done this playstyle of non interactivity, of having a sizeable amount of posts being naked votes, of interacting more with the moderator than with the players. Tell me why that his playstyle is playing to town's win condition and not scum.
If you can't, vote not_mafia.- OkaPoka
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So why aren't we voting up not_mafia? Meta? Show me a game where he has done this playstyle of non interactivity, of having a sizeable amount of posts being naked votes, of interacting more with the moderator than with the players. Tell me why that his playstyle is playing to town's win condition and not scum.- OkaPoka
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vote him or he can do this without consequenceIn post 412, AP wrote:
Holy cow! An udder empty post of those and even I am going to start suspecting you!!In post 411, Not_Mafia wrote:I'm town
Do we have to milk you for reads? Say something and let's get the game moooooving!- OkaPoka
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let's say you are right and this is his metaIn post 414, Sando wrote:
Oka he does this without consequence...it's his meta and you kinda have to deal with that. He feeds off reactions like you, and voting/lynching him will absolutely not change his playstyle, quite the opposite.In post 413, OkaPoka wrote:
vote him or he can do this without consequenceIn post 412, AP wrote:
Holy cow! An udder empty post of those and even I am going to start suspecting you!!In post 411, Not_Mafia wrote:I'm town
Do we have to milk you for reads? Say something and let's get the game moooooving!
how do you tell scum not_mafia from town not_mafia- OkaPoka
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what do you hate about it?In post 417, ManateeDude wrote:Im really hating Oka's push on Not_Mafia, but I still get towny vibes from it. So Idm joining the seal vote
VOTE: UnrealSeal
L-1- OkaPoka
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okay, tell me what he does as scum and what he does as town then and how do sort him from there.In post 421, ManateeDude wrote:
BECAUSE HE DOES THIS ALL THE TIME. ITS NOT SCUMMY FOR HIM.In post 420, OkaPoka wrote:
what do you hate about it?In post 417, ManateeDude wrote:Im really hating Oka's push on Not_Mafia, but I still get towny vibes from it. So Idm joining the seal vote
VOTE: UnrealSeal
L-1- OkaPoka
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Other scum could be anyone. Don't know, don't care rn. Maybe it is seal, I just think not_mafia is a much superior lynch than seal today. If the deadline comes I'll lynch seal, in fact ill lynch anyone who I feel is lurking today.
maybe not_mafia is indeed unlynchable tho, like an explanation why and an answer to my questions from the people ive asked from.
still directed to everyoneIn post 410, OkaPoka wrote:So why aren't we voting up not_mafia? Meta? Show me a game where he has done this playstyle of non interactivity, of having a sizeable amount of posts being naked votes, of interacting more with the moderator than with the players. Tell me why that his playstyle is playing to town's win condition and not scum.- OkaPoka
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explain to me how someone who is borderline trolling and is a dank memer a good asset to work with.In post 426, UnrealSeal wrote:Scum N_M simply does not post at all. In the game I played with scum N_M, he put down 1 naked vote then fucked off the rest of D1. Here's he put down multiple nakeds and is generally drawing more attention than the last time.
Honestly, the best thing to do with N_M is to get any town investigatives on him immediately. Policy Lynching/Vigging him is bad because if he's town he can be a genuinely good asset, if somewhat exasperating to work with.
if anything its a terrible asset because if we move to lylo and he is town, not_mafia is a free lynch for scum
and if he is scum then he can get away with trolling and bullshit and wifom and town will go in circles and kill themselves- OkaPoka
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one maf is deadIn post 438, Sando wrote:
So you acknowledge you're considering the "other scum", which is a different faction than whatever scum you think (thought) NM is, then:In post 425, OkaPoka wrote:Other scum could be anyone.Don't know, don't care rn. Maybe it is seal, I just think not_mafia is a much superior lynch than seal today.
You assume a binary outcome here, red+red is flat out not an option for you in this scenario? Why not?In post 431, OkaPoka wrote:okay so if sando flips town we lynch not_mafia and if sando flips scum not_mafia is a good boi?
that means
there is either sk left
maf left
or sk and maf left
so yeah - OkaPoka
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