Open 730: Donner Party [Terminado]


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Post Post #18 (isolation #0) » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:22 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

I don't get it.

VOTE: Not_Mafia
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Post Post #21 (isolation #1) » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:25 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Spoiler:
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Post Post #92 (isolation #2) » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:28 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Hi I'm back. :P

LuckyOtter not being very engaged in this game is bothering me. I think he could be likely scum here.

VOTE: LuckyOtter
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Post Post #93 (isolation #3) » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:30 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 91, AP wrote:@MM/@Sando:

The hypo "2nd scum if X is scum" is just a way to provide the Vig with more leads IF they need it. I mean, if the Vig already made up their mind that's fine and there's no need to do it. However, let's assume I am the Vig (
again:
HYPOTHETICAL ASSUMPTION
merely to get the point across
). Now let's say I got lucky and nailed a Mafioso on N1. Now I'm stuck and I'm not sure where to go next, but I do TR someone and want their advice. The problem is I can't ask them for their advice because I'll be outing myself. So, I'm proposing everyone does that unprompted (which is actually now prompted if we do agree to it), and I will have got the advice I need from that particular someone I need it from
without having to ask and out myself
.
But why not just ask the guy who you tr on whos scum? It will look like youre just trying to read the guy, rather than asking for an nk target.
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Post Post #101 (isolation #4) » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:47 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 96, Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
In post 92, ceejayvinoya wrote:Hi I'm back. :P

LuckyOtter not being very engaged in this game is bothering me. I think he could be likely scum here.

VOTE: LuckyOtter
Is he usually active? Could you, if you have those games, post the link to games he was in to allow us to know his meta?
LuckyOtter has been more pro-town on a game I've played with him where I was scum, and that's like within the first 100 pages.

Here's his iso in that game.
viewtopic.php?p=10219293&user_select%5B ... #p10219293

Notice the difference in the quality of his posts I'm seeing here from there.
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Post Post #102 (isolation #5) » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:51 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 100, AP wrote:
In post 93, ceejayvinoya wrote:But why not just ask the guy who you tr on whos scum? It will look like youre just trying to read the guy, rather than asking for an nk target.
OK. I'll just say "Hey, CJ.. considering X is scum who do you think their partner is? I'm just asking though, cuz I definitely am not the Vig and thus I don't know this guy's alignment, but I kinda want to assume this guy in particular is Mafia anyway, por favor." :P

P.S. Try to reread my posts to get the bigger picture. :wink:
Oh I think I see what you mean. Lols. You can't really get output from us because we'd never know that the guy you killed (assuming you're vig) is scum.
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Post Post #109 (isolation #6) » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:49 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Wtf is this. VOTE: UnrealSeal

You did read my post 92? I specifically said he wasn't being engaged. Otter's 105 is okay to me. What do you think is wrong about it?
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Post Post #110 (isolation #7) » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:59 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Right now my problem with you here @Otter, is that in our previous game, your first few votes actually makes sense and are progressive.
In post 61, LuckyOtter wrote:
In post 42, ejjinami wrote:
In post 6, LuckyOtter wrote:VOTE: ceejayvinoya like I should have last time.

Pedit: Damn you manatee
are you from the game where cee was super townie and explained his reads? Was he scum?
He was scum and I ended up listening to people instead of my gut.

Gut says AP is a good wagon.

VOTE: AP
In post 82, LuckyOtter wrote:
In post 79, Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
In post 61, LuckyOtter wrote:
In post 42, ejjinami wrote:
In post 6, LuckyOtter wrote:VOTE: ceejayvinoya like I should have last time.

Pedit: Damn you manatee
are you from the game where cee was super townie and explained his reads? Was he scum?
He was scum and I ended up listening to people instead of my gut.

Gut says AP is a good wagon.

VOTE: AP
In post 62, LuckyOtter wrote:
In post 49, ejjinami wrote: Let's be frank, no one is gonna waste time reading through a killed dude's ISO just to look for "possible crumbs". And with the person dead it's all WIFOM anyways. Crumbing is most useful to those who are still alive and want others to believe their claim.
Mmmm I dunno, honestly you're probably right D2, but D3 I think I'd be more likely to go crumbhunting. I'm thinking crumbing is better than hypoing in this scenario but I have no experience with hypoing so take that with a grain of salt. I just feel like hypoing might lead to more WIFOM than necessary
Did you just entirely sheep my views lol?
Nah just looking for a good wagon. Yours is better. VOTE: Marshmallow Marshall
So I was kinda disappointed when I saw these.

Mind telling me why Marsh is a good wagon atm?
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Post Post #111 (isolation #8) » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:05 am

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 105, LuckyOtter wrote:I know we played together so you have that meta, but if 'not being engaged' is what's bothering you, how do you feel about shizune, who has posted once to say hello, ask a question that was already answered, and not give a RVS vote?

Pedit: Same question to you wrt shizune, MM.
My problem with engagement is specifically about you.

Look at it this way. You and player X are in a game together. You see that player X is behaving differently compared to your last game together. Will you not wonder why?

I've never played with shizune before so I can't help there. Were going to have to see more.
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Post Post #113 (isolation #9) » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:42 am

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Explain to me like I'm a 5th grader on why Otter's answer was bad because I still don't get it.

I called out Otter for not being engaged, which also implied that I have a meta on Otter.

Otter answers this, saying this here's different because the circumstances here are different, then he acknowledges the meta I have on him.

He then asks the question that since a lack of engagement is not bothering me, why am I not on shizune.

The only thing I think you're going into here is his lead on why am I not on shizune when we know full well that my read on Otter is meta.

This is excusable because he thinks that I read people based on their activity in the game so far, since my read on Otter this game is like my second post. I can see why Otter thinks it's a valid question to ask.

Why do you not have an opinion regarding the difference of his posts here and the game I linked? Or do you just don't think it's important?
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Post Post #115 (isolation #10) » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:56 am

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Darn I see your point.

VOTE: LuckyOtter
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Post Post #169 (isolation #11) » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:50 am

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Spoiler:
In post 166, AP wrote:
In post 164, BlackStar wrote:Can we lynch this guy already?
Not yet. I mean, I don't fancy lynching people for being annoying (Disclaimer: MM is
not
even annoying to me, but I'm talking in general). I like lynching people because they make sense -to me- as scum OR if they're confusing enough that lynching them either provides more info or prevents them from going to LyLo. Obviously none of these is the case here, so I would rather get CJV whom I do think is scum.

Now someone asked about the scum motivation about CJV's behaviour, and I say what's the TOWN!motive behind voting someone who did the same thing you did, only it was about your own talk which you both interpreted in a way that is different to how a 3rd person did.

Let me try and phrase it another way: Person A says they like amphibians such as crocodiles. Person B says amphibians' skin being used to produce bags, shoes, belts and what not in inhumane. Person C points out amphibians' skin is not used for that and accuses B of being ignorant. Person A then reiterates that
crocodile skin
is indeed used for such production. Person C points out B said "amphibians" and crocodiles aren't amphibians. Now obviously B was mislead by A's statement (who was also under the impression his initial statement was correct still). C restates his point that crocodiles aren't amphibians, and A goes "Oh! Got ya! I agree B is actually at fault".

Now, how does
ignorant
A fault B for following A's doubly-confessed-to-be intended meaning? If it slipped my mind that crocodiles are actually reptiles not amphibians then I cannot point a finger at the other guys who thought the same when we
both
have been pointed out to be at wrong. I mean, we're both wrong.. we both made the same mistake, and it was I who started it even, so if he's ignorant I must be as much ignorant if not even more.

Sounds too complicated? Here's a much simpler example: There's a claimed but not yet mod-confirmed IC. I vote them and push them claiming I don't believe their claim. Someone else does the same. The mod comes in to confirm they are indeed an IC. I switch my vote to the other person because "they wanted to lynch the IC". How does that work?

So, what I think is CJV voting Lucky there is a projection of his own alignment. In his mind it is "I'm scum so he must be too". Let's not forget this is multi-ball, so if CJV is the SK he thinks Lucky is Mafia and vise versa.


Very clever, but I think most people looked at it the wrong way.

I voted LuckyOtter for meta reasons. Everything was fine then.

LuckyOtter then explains why my vote on him was wrong.

Then UnrealSeal comes along. He votes LuckyOtter, but for reasons different for what I put forward, reasons which I feel come from not reading LuckyOtter's explanation on why my vote was wrong.

I voted UnrealSeal and told him I didn't understand his vote, and that LuckyOtter already provided what I had asked of him.

UnrealSeal then tells me he voted LuckyOtter for being deflective in his answer.

Finding his answer satisfactory, I switched back.

Why people had trouble comprehending this, idk.
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Post Post #170 (isolation #12) » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:00 am

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In fact, looking at your examples, they actually don't apply. Idk why MM agrees with you.

Please tell me you just set a trap and you got MM
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Post Post #173 (isolation #13) » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:32 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 171, AP wrote:
In post 169, ceejayvinoya wrote:I voted UnrealSeal and told him I didn't understand his vote, and that
LuckyOtter already provided what I had asked of him.


UnrealSeal then tells me he voted LuckyOtter for being deflective in his answer.

Finding his answer satisfactory,
I switched back
.
So, if Lucky "already provided what you had asked of him", why did you "switch back" to him then? Did you agree that Lucky was "being deflective in his answer" to Unreal? And do you think that is reason enough when he had "already provided what
you
had asked of him"?
I switched back because that was where my vite was earlier, and I wasn't really content with Lucky's answer.

It's like I asked a guy to bring me 5 apples and instead he brings me only 4.

I don't think Lucky is being deflective in his answer. I stopped voting Unreal because I understood why he was scumreading Lucky. It's up to the two of them to sort that out.
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Post Post #174 (isolation #14) » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:33 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 172, AP wrote:
In post 170, ceejayvinoya wrote:Please tell me you just set a trap and you got MM
So, you think MM is caught scum?? If so, do you think MM & Lucky are of the same alignment?
I think MM is likely scum. As for if they're the same alignment, I dunno.

VOTE: Marshmallow
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Post Post #177 (isolation #15) » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:55 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

But that's not agreement. That's me saying I understood him. I "saw" his point. I didn't say "I agree with you" or "hey, you're actually right".
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Post Post #179 (isolation #16) » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:43 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 151, BlackStar wrote:
In post 140, Marshmallow Marshall wrote:
In post 139, BlackStar wrote:I really don't like the vibe I'm getting from Marsh. He seems way too frantic and desperate for town validation
So because I'm not as lethargic as you, I'm scummy? :lol: I'm always top poster on my forum, every game (unless I die early of course, but even there lol). And "desperate for town validation"? Elaborate on that please.

If you want a link to a game on my forum, http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthrea ... ht=spirits. My newbie game: viewtopic.php?t=76171&start=875.

Does anyone know BlackStar's meta, or have a link to a game he was in to give me?
In post 141, Marshmallow Marshall wrote:@BlackStar I want reaction to #140, please. Going to bed now, good morning people :P
Im not lethargic. And you're scummy because you're freaking out and flopping around all over the place hoping that people will stop being suspicious with you. You're moving your vote in order to have it line up with the general consensus and you're extremely defensive. I didn't even ask about your meta or past games and you offered it up because you're so desperate for people to stop scum reading you lol
I already said in 173 that I wasn't fully satisfied with Otter's answer. Sigh.
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Post Post #180 (isolation #17) » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:43 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Didn't mean to quote that no idea how that happened
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Post Post #189 (isolation #18) » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:03 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Wait wtf did you just hammer Marsh
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Post Post #191 (isolation #19) » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:05 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Oh you're so pure lmao
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Post Post #194 (isolation #20) » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:09 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

I'm still laughing lols
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Post Post #199 (isolation #21) » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:14 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 182, Sando wrote: So Otter was scummy for lack of progression onto MM and then you do the same?
Okay. Back. Otter leaned scummy to me because I assumed that his lack of engagement here compared to our previous game was suspicious.

Marsh leaned scummy to me because he agreed with AP's example which isn't even applicable.
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Post Post #311 (isolation #22) » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:35 am

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Hi.
I'm assuming both scum and sk killed blackstar, and vig got roleblocked. I can't see anything else making sense.
I'll be reading.
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Post Post #323 (isolation #23) » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:08 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 313, AP wrote:@CJV: Really?? You know, after my reread and by association and "best guessing" ..etc I had ruled you out of being anti-town despite not particularly liking your posts of D1. You faking total ignorance here still rubs me the wrong way and I can't be too sure you're not the Mafia/SK after all.
:facepalm:

I honestly don't know what's going on here. If I'm being ignorant then that means I am ignorant. It looks to me like you already had an idea of what happened. Why not just tell me what I'm missing?
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Post Post #325 (isolation #24) » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:23 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Oh. Then this means SK MUST have hit blackstar. The rest won't be reliably worked out until later days.
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Post Post #380 (isolation #25) » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:46 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Earlier you said that you got town vibes from AP?

I'm sticking here for now.

VOTE: Unreal
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Post Post #384 (isolation #26) » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:13 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 381, UnrealSeal wrote:
In post 108, UnrealSeal wrote:I get some town vibes from AP but I'm not ready to actually call him town yet. He's only posted theory so far with a votepark on himself, and has not done any actual scum/townhunting so far. I'd suggest wagoning the fuck out of him if his activity begins dropping once theory-crafting dies down.
my actual post.

his activity has not died down but he's still mostly theorizing around the setup and there's very little scum/town-hunting still in his posts. Furthermore, N_M is right in the fact that he hasn't laid a vote down so far in D2 and it makes me feel like he's playing safely and inoffensively as possible.
I don't understand why you labelled his consistency in setup-theorizing as a scumtell. Do those theories of his help him if he's scum?
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Post Post #423 (isolation #27) » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:19 am

Post by ceejayvinoya »

As town he tries to vote scum. As scum he votes town. So yeah no idea.
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Post Post #471 (isolation #28) » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:05 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

@OkaPoka how about considering everyone else? I mean, practically everyone else has more content than NM that we could analyze.
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Post Post #499 (isolation #29) » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:15 am

Post by ceejayvinoya »

In post 479, OkaPoka wrote:
In post 471, ceejayvinoya wrote:@OkaPoka how about considering everyone else? I mean, practically everyone else has more content than NM that we could analyze.
gimme name of person you want me to make post on and i go make post on that one person

but then u have to vote not_mafia or sando if i do this

deal?
Why are you asking me for targets. Where's your case on sando???
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Post Post #500 (isolation #30) » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:17 am

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And why are you fooling around with NM? I thought you were this 'hey I'm being helpful to town' kind of guy but this here isn't productive.
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Post Post #565 (isolation #31) » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:55 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Wtf let me try to comprehend this shit.

Okapoka's plan is to sheep NM on his sando vote. If NM is wrong and sando flips town, okapoka then votes NM. Lol.
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Post Post #566 (isolation #32) » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:56 pm

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I don't know what to say
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Post Post #570 (isolation #33) » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:09 pm

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I don't understand the way you're trying to prove it tho.

First off, NM shows what you think is scummy behavior.

You then point this out.

Several players then tell you that it's his meta and not really indicative of anything.

You then imitate his behavior? Do something similarly ridiculous as NM? What do you want us to do, townread you for that? Forgive me if this seems misrep because I'm having trouble seeing where you're going.

What's this point you're trying to prove about NM?

All I'm getting right now is that you want him lynched.
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Post Post #602 (isolation #34) » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:21 am

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Yeah what oka said.

Like how do those posts of his make him scum.
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Post Post #775 (isolation #35) » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:46 pm

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Arghhh darn it. This ended too soon. What am I supposed to do with my life now
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Post Post #776 (isolation #36) » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:47 pm

Post by ceejayvinoya »

Thanks for modding Korina! :P
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Post Post #779 (isolation #37) » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:52 pm

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