Forgotten Hourglass [Game Over]

[projectmatt]

VOTE: Purrcocet

[projectmatt]

btw i actually do think ankamius has been far too jumpy early on

Why do you believe that I am town already?

dunno. i just believe you

VOTE: zmuffinman

why did this post make you vote them? i feel like scum usually

try

to have a reason beyond "idk i just do".

here's the actual mafia, though

unvote

vote: brian skies

[projectmatt]

kokichi probably town

purr seems town

sakura seems kinda town

unsure if im hydrad with scum but gonna say no for now

why does purr seem town?

[projectmatt]

He ought to be town reading me because I'm town

you didn't answer my question earlier. what made you vote muffin in the first place? is it just the fact that he scumread you?

[projectmatt]

He ought to be town reading me because I'm town

you didn't answer my question earlier. what made you vote muffin in the first place? is it just the fact that he scumread you?

When is town!Ank ever this unsolvey? Even when she’s dead wrong about something, she always has numerous deep nuanced reads and opinions about the gamestate. I would argue that she still thinks we’re in rvs but her posts don’t read like that.

I know Ank likes to be viewed as a town leader and is the first one to try to solve the game but the only opinion she’s given so far is that Muffin’s town for backing off of her? I don’t know what to make of it because I also don’t think she’d be this bad as scum either.

But OTOH, that could also be a clever gambit on her part. I know I’m not crazy about the answers she’s given to my questions.

that's partially my concern. i don't expect intensive analysis from ank this early in the game, but the logic/reasoning she's presented has felt shoddy and weird.

[projectmatt]

vote: Spiffeh


Meow

why?

[projectmatt]

what

[projectmatt]

VOTE: Nancy
Can we vote now? Might as well put my vote back where it was

vote: sakura

[projectmatt]

do you have reads?

[projectmatt]

VOTE: Spiffeh

why are you ignoring my questions?

[projectmatt]

VOTE: Spiffeh

why are you ignoring my questions?

VOTE: Spiffeh

why are you ignoring my questions?

madness is rarely sensical
but madness is the only sanity

im taking this to mean "i don't want to explain my reads or my thought process for a -secret- reason"

strange, but alright

[projectmatt]

i'll read this tonight.

[projectmatt]

It's possible that we're simply on track in terms of scumreads and so that's what could be leading to the lull in content. Perhaps unlikely, but still possible. Alternatively, we're totally off and so scum don't care to do anything.

If people seem to agree on scumreads, then what about townreads?

i don't like this post. i'm not sure how to articulate why but the tone of it feels super forced.

It's possible that we're simply on track in terms of scumreads and so that's what could be leading to the lull in content. Perhaps unlikely, but still possible. Alternatively, we're totally off and so scum don't care to do anything.

If people seem to agree on scumreads, then what about townreads?

TBG, Matt, Wisdom are likely town.

I’m the most suspicious on Katsuki, Nos.

Iffy on Spiffeh, Muffin, Ank

Feeling okay about everyone else so far.

why are you iffy on muffin? has that read changed at all since you made that post?

alternately, why do you townread me? i've been a non-factor in this game so far.

also consider the possibility of dunnstral scum

Why, because he delayed the voting?

hes been all like hey lets do things
and then u realize hes done the same amount of nothing as the rest of us


this game is weird i know im weird but idk if that is an excuse like i can just go hide in a corner while everyone lynches spiffeh within 30 minutes if that is what we all need to move forward.

purrcocet is probably town.

I could argue that nos being a non presence means nos scum... but that's literally everyone this game.

this post is basically a statement of neutrality with the bonus of setting up to vote nosferatu later in the game. sakura could very well be scum here.

VOTE: Spiffeh

this vote basically came out of nowhere, and you switched it before spiffeh reacted. what was the purpose of that vote? do you think spiffeh is mafia?

VOTE: Mylo
Here Brian i shall join you in your effort to pressure this slot.

i

definitely

don't like this post. performative towntelling.

idk what Ank is trying to pull with her whole "it's cool to not care" schtick, but I don't think she would be this unresponsive as scum.

I've played with and correctly identified scum!Ankamius several times (admittedly years ago) and as scum she tries to sound important/helpful which is completely absent here.

She could be playing like this deliberately to counteract my ability to read her but for now it's not worth exploring that

i agree. ank leans town.

Ok I believe you because I doubt you'd lie about something you're literally asking me to find.

I'm a little surprised you let me off the hook this easily?

I thought it made sense that you would be hard on me based on your experience with town!me, but immediately letting it go doesn't really jive with how you were pressuring me before. Can you explain why you moved on so quickly?

good post. spiffeh can be town for now.

Well Purr directly asked this question to Maria.

It's not so much

just

the answering of the question that I'm trying to highlight; it's the fact that, 100+ posts (as far as I remember) after her last post in the thread,

that

was what Maria responded to before disappearing again. Not only is it suspicious in itself with regards to pocketing, but it's entirey inconsistent with a supposed desire to "bounce ideas off of" you; after all, Maria skipped plenty of posts you made she could've responded to in order to respond to a post

about

you.

And, all that being said, I think this is where I'll leave my vote for now, while still keeping an eye on Nosferatu.

VOTE: MariaR

this feels slimey. do people think moment is town?

This posting style is exhausting. Purr I really don't get why you're scumreading me of all people I feel I've been pretty transparently town.

Isn't this a scumtell for you?

oof, brian might be scum.

ok I'm going back to doing nothing

VOTE: Spiffeh

sakura is my top scumread because of stuff like this. it's so lazy to silently vote a slot that you haven't mentioned as a scumread (save for the very start of the game) when that slot conveniently starts being scumread by a bunch of other people in the game.

707 is patently untrue unless this were a 1-scum game

please don't make me invoke LAL spiffeh

this is just useless semantics, unless this is a joke

I'd vote you for the fact that you threw a scumread at my direction.

ive barely read this slot but this post is transparently bad

Oh man

I'm so tempted to vote spiffeh in spite of a game from a few years back where he mislynched me but that would mean voting with wisdom and dunnstral

what an existential crisis

Can you explain why you're using me as an excuse not to vote?

Because I think you're more than just an asshole.

this is bad too, but it might be town. damn.

Moment not really

It's been a fleeting thought of mine a few times throughout the game when reading your posts

And I don't have a specific reason for it

Well, I'm always up for being randomly lynched Day 1 for no discernible reason just like in Minuet's Trio, so if you want to get that going again then just let me know.

this reads like the exact same sardonic tone that i have when im scum.

brian's posting has improved slightly in the past two pages, but i still dont townread him.

[projectmatt]

anyway i want to lynch sakura, moment, and maybe muffin.

nancy, ank, spiffeh, and purr all lean town.

[projectmatt]

i dont really see why we would lynch nosferatu when they're basically completely null

[projectmatt]

anyway i want to lynch sakura, moment, and maybe muffin.

nancy, ank, spiffeh, and purr all lean town.

Err I've got Sakura and moment as towny and muffin as neutral

why do you think sakura is town in particular? almost all of their posts ping me as being really performative without actually trying to game-solve or find mafia.

What about this do you have an issue with?

do you townread spiffeh now?

also, my issue with #636 is that it looked like a cheap way to discredit maria and add to the general suspicion of her without actually being substantive or trying to engage with her. it felt like a drive-by discredit.

@Nancy, I've never played with Moment before. Did he post similarly in Minuet to how he's posting here? I get the impression from Moment's posts that he's trying really hard to be seen as town, but it comes across as being artificial.

eeee matt a lil scummy

why?

[projectmatt]

also, my issue with #636 is that it looked like a cheap way to discredit maria and add to the general suspicion of her without actually being substantive or trying to engage with her. it felt like a drive-by discredit.

Yeah. And?

you don't see the problem with that?

[projectmatt]

why didn't you explain your issue with that instead of vaguely implying she's mafia without actually voting her?

[projectmatt]

I was waiting for certain things to happen so I can analyse it all later, one of them (and the main one) being Mylo actually posting something I could consider content.

Also, seeing how people react to what I'm doing is also a thing I'm generally interested in.

i don't see how that would make you unable to directly state your issue with someone instead of vaguely discrediting them.

i'm not interested in arguing semantics though, since you

might

be town.

[projectmatt]

@nancy, i'll take that into consideration before i hard-tunnel him.

[projectmatt]

did you like mylo's content? i thought it was relatively bland and safe.

also, do you think your comment to maria yielded anything worthwhile? has your read on her progressed at all since that point?

[projectmatt]

i take it all back. brian's probably town.

[projectmatt]

yeah, katsuki is town

[projectmatt]

It bothers me that Matt isn't on this wagon.

that's fair. for full disclosure, ive been spending the last day re-thinking my reads because im pretty positive my initial assessments were wrong and that my reads are off. i'll post more of my thoughts on this later.

i'm not super opposed to this wagon but i don't think it's really going to garner that much information, regardless of the flip. i'll hammer on it before the deadline if we need.

[projectmatt]

i've been working all weekend. i'll post content after tomorrow.

in the meantime, does anybody want to explain why they think im scum? i saw something about "posturing scumreads on people on the mylo wagon" but that's vague.

[projectmatt]

It bothers me that Matt isn't on this wagon.

that's fair. for full disclosure, ive been spending the last day re-thinking my reads because im pretty positive my initial assessments were wrong and that my reads are off. i'll post more of my thoughts on this later.

i'm not super opposed to this wagon but i don't think it's really going to garner that much information, regardless of the flip. i'll hammer on it before the deadline if we need.

Matt, would you mind elaborating on why you weren't opposed to the Mylo wagon?

i thought mylo was possibly scum because his catch-up post was weak. i said it here:

did you like mylo's content? i thought it was relatively bland and safe.

that said, he was nowhere near my top scum-read and he seemed like the definition of an easy lynch, which is why i assumed his lynch wouldn't give us much information or interactions to read off of.

[projectmatt]

my stronger scumreads at the time were sakura/moment/muffin, which were generally disagreed with except for muffin.

the reason i didnt push super hard for a counter-wagon is that i thought mylo could easily be mafia, and i wasn't confident in my own reads, as i explained here:

It bothers me that Matt isn't on this wagon.

that's fair. for full disclosure, ive been spending the last day re-thinking my reads because im pretty positive my initial assessments were wrong and that my reads are off. i'll post more of my thoughts on this later.

anyway, i've been trying to reassess my approach to this game. i'll have good reads at some point.

[projectmatt]

i wouldn't say that it's a contradiction since my objection in that game was about lynching someone just for lurking. in mylo's case, my scumread was because they posts they did make were bland and scum-motivated.

also, i don't have experience with them or know their meta.

[projectmatt]

matt feels like that player that shouldn't be lynchbait but for whatever reason just gets lynched a lot anyways

it's almost creepy

i think i get mislynched in games a lot because i primarily olay mafia on a different website. my playstyle and my method of getting reads pings people as scummy because it goes against mafiascum site meta.

if it isn't obvious, i tend to read largely off of tone, and i slowly develop consistent reads throughout a game by questioning people about what they think and checking their responses for logical consistency, scum-motivation, etc.

being straight up, this type of situation tends to give me whiplash because i get legitimately kind of pissed off when people vote me as town. it seems so obvious from my perspective that im not scum and that this is a lazy wagon, but it means that i need to fight the misled town into not voting me, which makes me feel like i can't lay back and just develop my own reads, which is essential for my play.

im trying to do a catch-up post with reads and thoughts but every time i do i end up getting overwhelmed by the amount of effort required and say "fuck it, ill do it tomorrow."

so, that's where im at. i will try to get reads within the next day or so.

[projectmatt]

like, purr just posted a case on me that i truthfully think is absolute garbage. it doesn't make sense. it's full of false assumptions. I could use my energy to analyze it line by line and counter every point, but what does that accomplish? nobody's really going to read it in-depth and I feel like I'm just wasting time until I inevitably get voted.

It's legitimately frustrating.

[projectmatt]

I'll iso him tonight, muffin. Why do you think he's the best choice?

[projectmatt]

it seems like you just try to "feel" your way into all of your scumreads
you don't articulate any of the points you make that you have conviction on. all of them are very vague and you make everything seem like it's something but you never explain what that something is ever

i do try to feel my way into scumreads, and why is that a bad thing? the thing about reading games based on tone is that you subconsciously pick up on stuff that you may not be able to put into words. i think it's completely valid to assert that a post feels "off", and i don't see the need to make up some fake logic about why i found it bad as opposed to being honest and saying that i think his tone is scummy.

no......no it's not.
this is what i meant by posturing
it reads "nos lurking would be scummy if the entire playerlist wasn't also lurking" if you don't twist it

this is a super generous interpretation of what sakura said.

for clarity, the wording of the post was:

"I could argue that nos being a non presence means nos scum... but that's literally everyone this game."

how is that not a statement of neutrality? at best, it's filler post with no actual reads or attempts to game-solve. at worst, it's a filler post that sakura could use to justify voting nos in the future.

""performative towntelling"? if you definitely didn't like it you could have told us exactly what you meant but i think you were aware this was just a generic wagon join

performative towntelling is pretty descriptive, no? it looked like an unnecessary way to highlight the fact that she was adding pressure to the wagon because she was insecure about voting it without saying anything. she's pointing out that she's doing a town thing, and that's why it looks forced and performative.

so from this and the rest of your iso
sakura is scum for naked votes and "lazy" play is the foundation of your scumread

she's your top scumread but muffin who has posted nothing (of real content) at this point and voteparked in rvs is somehow lower. i will pretend that makes sense.
and you barely address muffin besides mentioning him
the muffin sr is never really pushed it's just kind of brushed on a little seemingly just for the sake of it

i mentioned in the post you quoted that i scumread sakura for "

stuff like this"

, implying her entire iso has been filled with underdeveloped reads, unnatural wagon jumps, and scum-motivated posts (like the statement of neutrality one.) so, it's a pretty big misrep to say that my scumread on sakura is based on "naked votes and 'lazy' play". you could make any scumread sound uninformed or poorly put together if you break it down into a few buzzwords.

in my post, i said that i maybe wanted to lynch muffin because his posts didn't ping me nearly as badly as sakura or moment. i don't see why someone not outing much content or parking their vote is scummier than the stuff i pointed out about sakura/moment, or why it somehow makes me scummy for not pushing on him more.

also, this was about 4 days before the deadline. do you want me to have substantive interaction with every player in the game? that's ridiculous. especially since i said shortly before the deadline that i was second-guessing my reads and wanted to re-evaluate them.

did you pick this post at random
you could have picked a few more to make it look better

this isn't even a point against me. you're assuming that i picked a post at random because you already think im mafia. i didn't. i thought it was a bad post that gave the impression of contributing content while it was actually just arguing semantics that didn't matter.

again. this is what i mean. what DO you mean? or are we just supposed to get the impression that you mean something

see my first response about reading people based on tone.

when i asked "do people think moment is town?", that was my way of asking "is anyone else pinged by these posts? am i alone?". why is that a bad thing?

so this is what you mean, but it's still somehow one of the most general statements ever

it's really not that general at all. i wouldn't use the reasoning that i used to scumread moment for any other player in this table, because it doesn't apply to any other player in this table. there's a very specific kind of scum-player that tries overwhelmingly hard to get people to townread them, and it can end up blowing up in their faces because something about their tone isn't right. i was assuming this is what was happening with moment.

[insert progression here]

this is fair. i'm still confused about my reads, but i'm trying.

[projectmatt]

he is being sarcastic nancy

stop spreading lies

i was being genuine as can be

it is absolutely amazing that we probably couldn't get 8 votes on you today

If TBG flips green, we powerlynch Muffin tomorrow.

Actually, also works if Matt flips red. Heh.

did you read my last 3+ posts

[projectmatt]

he is being sarcastic nancy

stop spreading lies

i was being genuine as can be

it is absolutely amazing that we probably couldn't get 8 votes on you today

If TBG flips green, we powerlynch Muffin tomorrow.

Actually, also works if Matt flips red. Heh.

did you read my last 3+ posts

All I know is Muffin is working overtime to get votes off of you, so my point being, either flip implicates or clears Muffin. Who do you think ought to be lynched?

why are you letting muffin dictate your vote instead of reading me individually? that seems lazy. (i still think youre town, granted.)

also, im reading through people iso's right now so ill answer that soon. i actually think kokichi could be scum here on second glance.

im not voting TBG yet because i think they're basically unreadable. right now i think i want to lynch

tbg wagon is awful
just stay on matt

explain why im mafia or why im a good wagon. im listening.

[projectmatt]

damn that last post got messed up but you should get the point

[projectmatt]

i dont explain to scum why theyre scum

i wish i could show you how hard i rolled my eyes at this post

like this is the laziest shit

[projectmatt]

@nancy

why are you letting muffin dictate your vote instead of reading me individually?

[projectmatt]

it would be great if nancy could stop ignoring my question to her and not coast lazily on a read that doesn't make sense, but i guess we can't all get what we want

[projectmatt]

it would be great if nancy could stop ignoring my question to her and not coast lazily on a read that doesn't make sense, but i guess we can't all get what we want

I told you why. ISO me, if you doubt this. You are also not suggesting alternatives, which would help.

i mean no, you didn't. you explained your rationale for voting me here:

All I know is Muffin is working overtime to get votes off of you, so my point being, either flip implicates or clears Muffin. Who do you think ought to be lynched?

and you didn't answer this post:

why are you letting muffin dictate your vote instead of reading me individually? that seems lazy. (i still think youre town, granted.)

also, im reading through people iso's right now so ill answer that soon. i actually think kokichi could be scum here on second glance.

[projectmatt]

i guess i understand where you're coming from, my gripe is that it seems sort of lazy to base your vote off of associative tells on one of your unflipped scumreads as opposed to just trying to read me and see if im town.

part of the reason i think kokichi might be scum is because of his indignation at me being lynched. the confidence in which he knows im going to flip town seems unrealistic, and it looks like he's trying to get towncred/using my townflip to justify his tunnel on wisdom. i also feel like his iso doesn't have much substance to it. i like most of his reads, but it feels like he gets them without trying to scumhunt/dialogue with people, and it makes me think the reads might be fake.

that said, i can still be convinced kokichi is town. he's not my top choice right now.

as for my actual top choice, i'd probably want to vote muffin or moment. i'll elaborate on those when it's not 4 am.

im not opposed to tehbrawlguy wagon solely because his gimmick is unreadable.

also, im asking everyone who's voting me without commenting about it why they're voting me. that's why i asked wisdom too.

[projectmatt]

jesus

[projectmatt]

This in particular doesn't seem that great since he's hedging and doing the same thing we slammed Mylo for. I'm also curious about his Muffin and Moment scumreads,
particularly because I think Moment is really town this game.

i elaborated on what makes me scumread moment in my response to purr. let me quote it for you. (also i feel like this post got missed and i want to quote it again.)

it seems like you just try to "feel" your way into all of your scumreads
you don't articulate any of the points you make that you have conviction on. all of them are very vague and you make everything seem like it's something but you never explain what that something is ever

i do try to feel my way into scumreads, and why is that a bad thing? the thing about reading games based on tone is that you subconsciously pick up on stuff that you may not be able to put into words. i think it's completely valid to assert that a post feels "off", and i don't see the need to make up some fake logic about why i found it bad as opposed to being honest and saying that i think his tone is scummy.

no......no it's not.
this is what i meant by posturing
it reads "nos lurking would be scummy if the entire playerlist wasn't also lurking" if you don't twist it

this is a super generous interpretation of what sakura said.

for clarity, the wording of the post was:

"I could argue that nos being a non presence means nos scum... but that's literally everyone this game."

how is that not a statement of neutrality? at best, it's filler post with no actual reads or attempts to game-solve. at worst, it's a filler post that sakura could use to justify voting nos in the future.

""performative towntelling"? if you definitely didn't like it you could have told us exactly what you meant but i think you were aware this was just a generic wagon join

performative towntelling is pretty descriptive, no? it looked like an unnecessary way to highlight the fact that she was adding pressure to the wagon because she was insecure about voting it without saying anything. she's pointing out that she's doing a town thing, and that's why it looks forced and performative.

so from this and the rest of your iso
sakura is scum for naked votes and "lazy" play is the foundation of your scumread

she's your top scumread but muffin who has posted nothing (of real content) at this point and voteparked in rvs is somehow lower. i will pretend that makes sense.
and you barely address muffin besides mentioning him
the muffin sr is never really pushed it's just kind of brushed on a little seemingly just for the sake of it

i mentioned in the post you quoted that i scumread sakura for "

stuff like this"

, implying her entire iso has been filled with underdeveloped reads, unnatural wagon jumps, and scum-motivated posts (like the statement of neutrality one.) so, it's a pretty big misrep to say that my scumread on sakura is based on "naked votes and 'lazy' play". you could make any scumread sound uninformed or poorly put together if you break it down into a few buzzwords.

in my post, i said that i maybe wanted to lynch muffin because his posts didn't ping me nearly as badly as sakura or moment. i don't see why someone not outing much content or parking their vote is scummier than the stuff i pointed out about sakura/moment, or why it somehow makes me scummy for not pushing on him more.

also, this was about 4 days before the deadline. do you want me to have substantive interaction with every player in the game? that's ridiculous. especially since i said shortly before the deadline that i was second-guessing my reads and wanted to re-evaluate them.

did you pick this post at random
you could have picked a few more to make it look better

this isn't even a point against me. you're assuming that i picked a post at random because you already think im mafia. i didn't. i thought it was a bad post that gave the impression of contributing content while it was actually just arguing semantics that didn't matter.

again. this is what i mean. what DO you mean? or are we just supposed to get the impression that you mean something

see my first response about reading people based on tone.

when i asked "do people think moment is town?", that was my way of asking "is anyone else pinged by these posts? am i alone?". why is that a bad thing?

so this is what you mean, but it's still somehow one of the most general statements ever

it's really not that general at all. i wouldn't use the reasoning that i used to scumread moment for any other player in this table, because it doesn't apply to any other player in this table. there's a very specific kind of scum-player that tries overwhelmingly hard to get people to townread them, and it can end up blowing up in their faces because something about their tone isn't right. i was assuming this is what was happening with moment.

[insert progression here]

this is fair. i'm still confused about my reads, but i'm trying.

This is didn't really like since I feel like he could've figured that out for himself if he just continued to read my posts, and this was a conclusion Moment and I had already come to (Moment was the one who actually pushed me to reevaluate my Mylo read, so I am giving him a decent amount of credit here). And Matt never did end up voting Mylo. While I can see town just being really unsure, it gives me the impression he could have been scum hoping for the Mylo wagon to stall out near day's end and people wagoning something else.

this isn't something i can really refute because it's just speculation. that said, i think it's pretty valid to think that the mylo lynch was kind of a lazy wagon, and at the time it didn't seem like a move that would help progress the game at all. also, if i was trying to remove the energy from the mylo wagon, i would have been trying a lot harder to wagon on someone else. instead, i sat in a confused state while trying to figure out my own reads.

Anyhow, the main pause I have is that most of his posting that I have an issue with comes in long catch-up style posting. But I still didn't really like this:

oof, brian might be scum.

i'm not interested in arguing semantics though, since you might be town.

i take it all back. brian's probably town.

Which seems like he was trying to give off the impression of a generic read, and it didn't actually feel that way for me.

i'd be happy to walk you through my thought process on why i scumread you and then changed my mind, if that's something you want.

hey projectmatt you mentioned scum reading Sakura early on and even today justified that read in defense of Purr's accusations, but I don't see her in your list of scum reads rn

What happened?

it changed. i doubt sakura is scum anymore.

[projectmatt]

anyway for clarity, i scumread moment largely for tone issues (i articulated it in the post above.)

i scumread muffin because his reads feel weirdly non-commital and stuff like this pings the hell out of me:

my evil conscience is like "STOP OVERTHINKING SHIT, IT'S NANCY TBG" but my good conscience doesn't fully trust my evil conscience and is like "but nancy could just be bad. maybe maria tbg?" and both consciences are too busy doing other things to really give a shit about who's right tbh

i dont get the impression from his posts that he's trying to gamesolve or sincerely find the mafia, but it does look to me like he's posturing between a bunch of different scumreads and relying on his erratic playstyle to justify not articulating himself.

[projectmatt]

What changed your mind?

i came to the realization that a lot of the reasons i scumread sakura seem to boil down to playstyle/site meta that im not familiar with, as opposed to legitimate scumtells. her play improved considerably after my original catch-up post. their tone reads a lot more sincere and i think they're approaching the game in a way that scum almost definitely wouldn't. stuff like this:

Actually I have a gut feeling that purrcocet is scum, but i dont care enough right now.

or

Tbh, i do think muffin's scum, but i feel kinda nervous/anxious about lynching him coz i'd feel bad if he's actually town here and im wrong.

doesn't look scum-motivated to me at all. it is fence-sitting like i pointed out previously, but the difference is that sakura is being brutally honest about their indifference/apathy toward getting their reads lynched, and that makes a lot more sense coming from a town perspective than a scum one.

[projectmatt]

honestly i still think im just killing time until i get mislynched because y'all are too afraid to lynch within people that you already know and i also dont think a lot of you are genuinely interested in reading me

i am salty, though

vote: muffin

[projectmatt]

maybe one day when i manage to perfectly adhere to mafiascum.net site meta and become a household personality i'll stop getting mislynched in games

[projectmatt]

brian, a bunch of that post is an exact explanation/defense of why i scumread moment (again, largely based on tone). in all fairness, i have not made a case on them.

[projectmatt]

I honestly don't even get the scumreads on matt

i honestly can't tell if im just salty or if people just generally gravitate toward lynching easy targets that they don't have to think critically about or challenge because they're not in the social bubble of the game

[projectmatt]

a bunch of you guys are even forecasting that im about to flip town and you're still voting me or not even attempting to find a counter-wagon.

like, this is learned helplessness. you're coasting on it until the deadline comes. then you can say "haha oops i guess we gotta lynch matt now there's no time"

it's just annoying

[projectmatt]

i wish this was live mafia so i could suicide out of the game in dramatic fashion and then get banned

[projectmatt]

too bad. i think he's mafia. based on his tone.

[projectmatt]

i do try to feel my way into scumreads, and why is that a bad thing? the thing about reading games based on tone is that you subconsciously pick up on stuff that you may not be able to put into words. i think it's completely valid to assert that a post feels "off", and i don't see the need to make up some fake logic about why i found it bad as opposed to being honest and saying that i think his tone is scummy.

again, i'm not about to make up reasons and grasp at straws just so i can justify why moment is mafia. i think he feels off. i think his tone feels manipulative.

[projectmatt]

as for my actual top choice, i'd probably want to vote muffin or

moment

. i'll elaborate on those when it's not 4 am.

You would think that the

elaboration

would be more than just 'tone.' But that's just me.

i elaborated on muffin and i re-explained why i think moment is mafia based on his tone. i guess maybe saying "ill elaborate later" was misleading, but i stand by my read.

[projectmatt]

i'm not trying to be that guy who says "the only reason im being lynched is because im not part of the site meta"

but i do think it is a factor

[projectmatt]

306 was a huge post of a bunch of soft stances and wording it in a way that is both incredibly useless and yet can be used as a way to ensure that taking certain hard stances later will feel more natural while also not feeling all that bad if you need to go the opposite way because of how weak the read is.

It's literally a read of 'looking busy and providing outs'

i completely agree with this btw

[projectmatt]

i can immediately see a difference in moment's tone in that game vs this game.

his first content post was this:

Not all that much to do before we can vote. I've got light townreads for one (likely poor) reason or another on Kokichi, HS, hebichan and Dunnstral.

If I could vote, it'd likely be on Kaede for this post:

BTW investigatives should stay off me; they'd be wasting their action.
I'm a D3 Innocent Child.
If you are wondering, no, not automatic; I have to manually trigger it.

Nice fakeclaim

Reveal

What makes you think it's a fake claim?

I have a hard time believing that anyone could actually have this sort of thought process and ask that question.

it's speculative and insecure but it also outs definite reads and puts pressure on another player.

meanwhile, moment's first content post in this game:

do you have reads?

Oh, I guess I wasn't really clear in my wording; I didn't mean that I had past-tense "gotten" a chance to look through things, I meant that my chance started right then (and is now completed).

No strong reads as of yet, but I've got some leans going either way. Kokichi, you (matt), Dunnstral, Nancy and

perhaps

Sakura (pending taking a look back at the last game for comparison on something) all seem town enough to me for now. I agree with others on Ankamius' posting just in general not being the best so far, but that's not really a strong scumread at all.



I haven't liked some of what Spiffeh has been saying; specifically, it was these two lines that really stuck out to me:

Nancy, you admit yourself that your early game is inconsistent but when you're wagoned you say that they shouldn't be scum reading you here because of how you acted in the beginning of Necromancer.

Some would argue that there won’t be any meaningful contribution before votes actually count.

The first line from 157 is logically correct, but it's the kind of logically correct thing that someone could point out regardless of alignment, and I feel like a scum Spiffeh would be more apt to take that opportunity to point it out than a town Spiffeh. When it comes to Nancy Drew, that kind of logical inconsistency really doesn't seem particularly alignment relevant - at least, that's how it seems to me - and so pointing it out would be more of an attempt to look like you're doing something than actually doing something.

The second quote really just stuck out to me for the wording. He wasn't making that argument, he was just saying that "some would argue" that. It's weasel wording which, in all honesty, is probably not scum indicative, especially for such a tangentially alignment-related issue as the starting of the day. Even still, it stuck out to me upon reading through and I felt it worth mentioning.

it reads to me like moment is scared to commit to any reads or even to interrogate another player. it feels like his express purpose is keeping his options open while still setting up to vote people later in the game. this is different from his first post in minuet, in which he takes hard stances and asserts himself.

[projectmatt]

thanks for the input.

[projectmatt]

we're clearly not reading his tone the same way at all. i don't think #307 was committal. it left open the possibility that he could switch to spiffeh/mylo/maria at any time. he's also not trying to directly engage nosferatu, moreso just saying "this was scummy and here's why". that contrasts his post in minuet, in which he directly called out kaede in a harsh way.

[projectmatt]

Really? Because his posts read as him whining that people are scumreading him. Not to mention he even at one point said he should be read as obvtown, and I don't think there's anything in his iso that should indicate this.

the vast majority of my posts are articulating my thought process, my reads, or questioning other people in the game. ive rightfully pointed out a couple of times that people are voting me because they're lazy and it's the easiest move for them, and the best way you can think to summarize my play is that im whining?

do better.

[projectmatt]

it's a lazy discredit to call my posts whining. by framing my posts that way, you're making people more likely to disregard what im saying. you're also ignoring the valid points im making and disregarding them as "whining" so that you don't have to rub 2 brain cells together and critically think about them.

[projectmatt]

congratulations on quoting 3 out of my 60 posts in order to prove a useless point

being honest about where my head is at with my wagon isn't the same thing as whining. it's also not nearly the only content ive posted. this debate is dumb.

[projectmatt]

we're clearly not reading his tone the same way at all. i don't think #307 was committal. it left open the possibility that he could switch to spiffeh/mylo/maria at any time. he's also not trying to directly engage nosferatu, moreso just saying "this was scummy and here's why". that contrasts his post in minuet, in which he directly called out kaede in a harsh way.

Really? Because all his posts and actions speak otherwise.

To elaborate on this, and all of you are free to iso Moment if you're really that interested, but Moment does actually engage and pressure his scumreads, as well as

actually

voting them. Sure, he doesn't really engage Nos or Mylo that much, but he

still

asks people their opinions on them and engages other people on their opinions of said slots.

i think a cursory glance of his iso shows that he has a tendency this game to jump on already established bandwagons and to remain somewhat wishy-washy about his own reads.

im not saying he's never engaged or pressured people, but my point is that there's an immediate difference in his tone and in his approach to this game simply by comparing his first post here with his first post in minuet.

[projectmatt]

I don't actually really care about establishing that as a valid point against you. Just that you've been whining today and that your Moment push is bad and/or misguided.

whatever dude

[projectmatt]

i think a cursory glance of his iso shows that he has a tendency this game to jump on already established bandwagons and to remain somewhat wishy-washy about his own reads.

im not saying he's never engaged or pressured people, but my point is that there's an immediate difference in his tone and in his approach to this game simply by comparing his first post here with his first post in minuet.

What reads has he been wishy washy on? How do these reads of his indicate scum for you?

Why are you treating his first post between two games as some sort of smoking gun?

he's mainly remained committed to three primary scumreads (that he barely challenged/engaged with) while also hinting that me, spiffeh, (and probably someone else i forget) could also be scum. i felt like his jump on my wagon was insincere and came out of nowhere, and i think he's been content to sit back today and let the town implode. it feels like he's giving himself a lot of wriggle room by barely pushing on the reads he does have.

im not treating it as a smoking gun. nancy told me to iso moment in minuet and see if i still felt the same way. i explained how the first post of each game is a good example of how moment's play feels off this game. youre making it a big deal by nitpicking the reasoning.

[projectmatt]

purr, i think that nancy is town and ive stated it a bunch of times this game, FTR.

[projectmatt]

has anyone explained why they think maria is scum yet? i don't really get it.

[projectmatt]

yikes. let me catch up before the deadline. is there anything super important i should know?

[projectmatt]

prod dodge.

[projectmatt]

replace me.

sorry, y'all. i try not to replace out of games but i just don't have enough energy IRL right now to keep up with this game and have good reads/content. i'll stick to smaller games for the near future.