In post 26, mastina wrote:Besides, if a Fruit Vendor can perform other actions at the same time, the role is just a Visitor; you can confirm you're a Fruit Vendor but you can't confirm that you don't have another role too.
My impression of the Visitor role is that the visit is not announced to the player being visited. As in, Visitor A visits B; B does not know of this. This makes it a distinctly different role from a fruit vendor, where Fruit Vendor A visits B, and B is told they received a piece of fruit, thus telling them they were visited.
They know that they were visited, but what can they deduce from that? The visit might have been a random extra addition to any other role, and the user can safely claim it. In other words, it has exactly the same balance impact as if it wasn't used, unless you use modmeta to say "well, the mod
probably
wouldn't have given this Fruit Vendor an additional action".
What you're saying here is effectively "Fruit vending confirms that the user
does not have a role other than Fruit Vendor
". That's similar to my restriction (but not exactly the same), but if it's important, it should be spelled out (especially in Normals).
We used to have Masons which were
usually
Town, but that lead to trouble. Now we have Neighbours who aren't confirmed at all, and Masons who are 100% confirmed. A Fruit Vendor that isn't explicitly confirmed not to have a secondary role would be in a similar space to an unconfirmed Mason; yes, they probably don't have another role, but the role itself can do nothing to prove that, so you have to rely on what you think the moderator would do.
(Incidentally, if Loyal Fruit Vendor ever becomes commonly used, it'll be standard practice for everyone to report on whether or not they received fruit last night at the start of every non-Day 1 day of every game, with scummier players claiming first; I can't think of any situations where this would backfire for town, and it gains a clear advantage in the case where there does happen to be a Loyal Fruit Vendor in the game. I disagree with your classification of it as being a weak investigative role; it's actually stronger than Cop is, because it gets a venge-vestigation if killed overnight, and because the investigation results are revealed publicly without the Loyal Fruit Vendor having to expose themself. In this situation, presumably regular Fruit Vendors would claim to avoid being confused with the Loyal version.)