Normal Roles

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Post Post #56 (isolation #0) » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:35 am

Post by Umlaut »

This seems like a good thread to resurrect now that the greylist is no more.
  1. Modifier:
    [Role]
    -Immune
    . Immunity to targeted night actions by a specific role. Can be added to any other role.

  2. Sample PM:
    You are a(n)
    [Alignment]
    [Role]
    -Immune
    [Your-Role]
    .
    • (remainder of alignment and role description)

    • If you are targeted by a
      [Role]
      at night, that action will fail.
  3. This modifier is self-explanatory, fits the spirit of a normal game, and introduces no mechanics that anyone will find confusing or misleading. It would most likely function as a role-specific Ascetic in most games using it, allowing a more granular approach to balance than a full Ascetic would.

    The only potentially-surprising aspect of this role is that by definition a [Role]-Immune should be immune to
    any
    action by a [Role], even if the action is unrelated to that role's specific abilities; e.g. if a Voyeur-Immune Townie were shot by a Mafia Voyeur, the kill would fail. I consider this a feature, not a bug, in that it opens up space for creative designers to tinker.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #59 (isolation #1) » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:00 am

Post by Umlaut »

I don't think Named Townie is currently whitelisted? Here's a templated recommendation, based on one already popular naming scheme.
  1. Role:
    [FLAVORED] Townie
    , where [FLAVORED] may be any of {Chocolate, Strawberry, Cherry, Banana, Lemon, Pistachio, Bacon, Ginger}. Additional flavors may be added to this list as needed.

  2. Sample PM:
    You are a
    [FLAVORED] Townie
    .
    • Your weapons are your voice and your vote; you have no special abilities.
    • You win when
      [the Town win condition occurs]
      .
  3. Named townies are a simple and well-understood concept with multiple applications in a setup. They can be used to weaken informative roles or simply to create an additional role claim. They can produce some surprisingly interesting interactions when combined with e.g. Informed roles, yet by definition they involve no new mechanics that could complicate the rules or confuse players.

    While it is already possible to get the effect of a named townie by toying with PR modifiers ("You are a Night 1000 Bulletproof Townie"), doing so can be unintentionally misleading or confusing to less savvy players, and possibly even unintentionally informative by suggesting other information about the setup. To avoid these issues (and to alert newer normal game designers that this possibility even exists) it would be convenient to have a standard set of named townie roles that don't even appear to imply anything specific and that can be easily looked up on the wiki.

    It's unclear whether multiple [FLAVORED] Townies of the same flavor should normally be allowed as a possibility. This spec says they are allowed, but the creation of an additional modifier called
    Unique
    Sole (which I intend to write up as a separate proposal) could make it easier to implement guaranteed-unique names in a natural way.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #60 (isolation #2) » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:07 am

Post by Umlaut »

Disclaimer: I literally just made this up while writing the previous post. As far as I know it's completely untested and unprecedented.

  1. Modifier: Sole.
    Indicates that this is the only player in the game with a given alignment+role.

  2. Sample PM:
    Using a specific example for clarity; the aspects specific to the Sole modifier are underlined.
    (Note the somewhat nonstandard placement of the modifier before the alignment, reflecting that the modifier applies to alignment+role rather than role alone.)
    You are the
    Sole
    Town Doctor
    .
    • Each night, you may target one player to protect them from a single attempted kill.
    • There are no other Town Doctors or Sole Town Doctors in the game.

    • You win when the Town is the sole surviving faction, or when nothing can prevent the same.
  3. This modifier creates a controlled element of openness during the course of the game, via confirming partial information about the setup. For town it can also prevent or provide counterplay against specific fakeclaims, and provide some cushioning after particularly unfortunate deaths: even a Sole Town Cop who's lynched on day 1 will at least prevent another Cop claim. While probably not likely to be used often for mafia, it would in principle act as a negative-utility modifier by revealing a small bit of extra information about the scumteam on death. If adopted together with my , it affords the possibility of uniquely-named townies within the confines of the current Normal guidelines in which there is no greylist.

    The inclusion of a Sole PR is enjoyable even for players who don't receive it themselves: part of the fun of playing as town is the gradual unraveling of the mystery and narrowing down of possibilities, and a well-placed Sole modifier can help ensure that this happens. Furthermore, the dream of catching scum with a hard CC will likely make Sole PRs more reluctant to claim early, encouraging a game flow where setup information is revealed gradually rather than all at once on day 1 or 2. I also think its existence would have beneficial effects on the meta even in games where it isn't actually used, by adding depth to decisions (by both factions) about whether, when, what, and how much to claim.

    It's natural, self-explanatory, integrates cleanly into the Normal rules, and introduces no new mechanics during play. The only barrier I see to whitelisting it is that it's untested and I'm not sure how it balances; if we want to try it out, my impulse would be to take as a rough starting point "like replacing one VT with an Informed" for Town, and "practically zero" for Mafia.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #64 (isolation #3) » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:31 am

Post by Umlaut »

In post 62, callforjudgement wrote:Normals already ban duplicates (except in obvious cases like Neighbour).
I can't find this rule anywhere.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #71 (isolation #4) » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:29 am

Post by Umlaut »

In post 61, SleepyKrew wrote:this discussion would probably be more fruitful in the current thread instead of the old one (and if you want to help decide what is and isn't Normal, consider joining the NRG!)
I would love to help decide what is and isn't Normal, but I don't feel qualified to review games for balance. Is there a place for someone like me in the NRG? If so I'd be happy to join.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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