Open 730: Donner Party [Terminado]

[ManateeDude]

First

[ManateeDude]

VOTE: LuckOtter

I dont want to be damned.

[ManateeDude]

Fun Fact of the day:

Korina is well known on my forum for hardclaiming scum and making a reroll

[ManateeDude]

Where's my joke? Also fix the second post please

What if you are the joke?

[ManateeDude]

VOTE: ejjinami

That cow avi gets weirder and weirder.

[ManateeDude]

ManateeDude, may I ask you to get an avatar? It makes it easier to read the thread, and allows us to put an avatar on your name.

I'll get to that asap.

Question: are we hypoing?

[ManateeDude]

ManateeDude, may I ask you to get an avatar? It makes it easier to read the thread, and allows us to put an avatar on your name.

I'll get to that asap.

Question: are we hypoing?

Hypoing? As in HYYYYYYYYYYYPE? If so, yes we are

Hypoclaiming

Ex "If I am the cop, MM is town."

[ManateeDude]

I can already tell this game will be interesting

Why?

Because of the funky setup.

[ManateeDude]

Thats a fair point in retrospect ejj.

[ManateeDude]

Ignore what I said about him trying to confuse town... I think I'm the one who's confused right now lol

This just feels like a bad way to back away from their actions.

VOTE: MM

[ManateeDude]

Ignore what I said about him trying to confuse town... I think I'm the one who's confused right now lol

This just feels like a bad way to back away from their actions.

VOTE: MM

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthrea ... he-Smith-s

Convinced?

I have and will always be terrible at meta reads.

[ManateeDude]

So far CJ I just don't have much to latch onto. I put in my two cents in on the claiming/crumbing talk and I don't have any more to contribute on that front. If you filter it out there's not much else going on yet. In our game I had a pretty specific thing to focus on right away.

I know we played together so you have that meta, but if 'not being engaged' is what's bothering you, how do you feel about shizune, who has posted once to say hello, ask a question that was already answered, and not give a RVS vote?

I actually really like this response. The tone just gives me a gut villa read atm

[ManateeDude]

Darn I see your point.

VOTE: LuckyOtter

What the hell is this 180

VOTE: CJV

Just for now.

[ManateeDude]

This feels like TvT to me

Who are you referring to?

[ManateeDude]

I really don't like the vibe I'm getting from Marsh. He seems way too frantic and desperate for town validation

So because I'm not as lethargic as you, I'm scummy? I'm always top poster on my forum, every game (unless I die early of course, but even there lol). And "desperate for town validation"? Elaborate on that please.

If you want a link to a game on my forum, http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthrea ... ht=spirits. My newbie game: viewtopic.php?t=76171&start=875.

Does anyone know BlackStar's meta, or have a link to a game he was in to give me?

@BlackStar I want reaction to #140, please. Going to bed now, good morning people

Im not lethargic. And you're scummy because you're freaking out and flopping around all over the place hoping that people will stop being suspicious with you. You're moving your vote in order to have it line up with the general consensus and you're extremely defensive. I didn't even ask about your meta or past games and you offered it up because you're so desperate for people to stop scum reading you lol

You're not posting much, and you're refusing to put your vote somewhere (until recently).

I'm not freaking out. I will always flop all around the place

Nope. The general consensus atm doesn't exist lol. I initiated the vote on you. And it seems that you want to deflect it by attacking me? Also, I'm "defensive" if I say I don't want to be lynched... Isn't it normal to be willing to survive? I believe everyone should link their meta tbh, it makes the reading much easier.

I still want YOUR meta by the way. You still didn't give it. This makes me think I was right about you deflecting the suspicions by throwing shade at me.

This counterarguement is so scummy wtf.

@UnrealSeal Is Not_Mafias meta that identifiable that you can read him this early in? What tells are towny/scummy for him?

I'd also like to say that ejj is a strong null, I always have an extremely difficult time reading them as either alignment, and all posts so far have been NAI.

I've been stuck on mobile for a while now, I'm not sure when I can get an avi.

[ManateeDude]

Sando v ceejay feels heavy T v T atm. Im gutreading both of them as town because of their tone.

[ManateeDude]

Sando v ceejay feels heavy T v T atm. Im gutreading both of them as town because of their tone.

So you believe the entire thing with Ceejay is a huge misunderstanding?

It just turned into a dumb fight I can't see scum initiating

VOTE: MM

This feels very pure atm

[ManateeDude]

Fuuuuuck

[ManateeDude]

Welp. I hope this flips scum.

[ManateeDude]

MM may continue posting until their role is flipped btw

Twilight posting is also fine with me, all rules still apply though

Twilight is the time between a hammer and mod coming to the thread, not whatever this is

R u the mod?

[ManateeDude]

Im actually confident this flips scum tbh

[ManateeDude]

NM is just pissed someone took his lol hammer glory.

Feelsgoodman

[ManateeDude]

god fucking dammit.

i leave for a few hours and stupid shit happens.

i'd bet money this flips town.

( ._.)

[ManateeDude]

I think decent chance of scum in ejj/MM, and I don't think they're scum together. 44 through 49 did not feel organic to me and I'm trying to put my finger on anything specific in there, it feels a bit buddying to me. They're both disagreeing with a hypo claim (which is fine to disagree with) using talk about whether the

cop

GS should claim or not if threatened with lynching (which is not a fine conversation, obviously they should and that has no bearing on us hypoing or not). They also both focus on the

cop

GS while ignoring the other PRs, who is the biggest threat to SK since no block there, and obviously a big threat to Mafia as well

This was the only comment sando made on MM, and later in the day didn't comment at all. I feel like this was a weak attempt at distancing. Also the excessive on smth I felt was T v T gives me scummy vibes.

VOTE: Sando

Also agree with eragon wagon was probably pure of mafia.

[ManateeDude]

VOTE: not_mafia

why are u doing naked votes and doing nothing of substance

I'm told it's his meta and NAI.

[ManateeDude]

Town core
- Manatee
- Eragon

Town lean
- ceejay
- UnrealSeal
- LuckyOtter
- OkaPoka

Null
- ejjinami

Scum
- Sando

Scum is either ejj or someone in Townlean imo, I'll explain any reads you ask for an explanation for

[ManateeDude]

Town core
- Manatee
- Eragon

Town lean
- ceejay
- UnrealSeal
- LuckyOtter
- OkaPoka

Null
- ejjinami
- AP

Scum
- Sando

Scum is either ejj or someone in Townlean imo, I'll explain any reads you ask for an explanation for

Edited

[ManateeDude]

@manatee why am I already towncore?

and why is ejji likely scum?

1) meta
2) its null because I can never freaking read ejj. But if anything she's SK.

[ManateeDude]

wait ur towncoring eragon cuz meta?
what meta do u have prior experience with him what

I play with him consistently on the ToS forums.

[ManateeDude]

@manateedude what does eragon scumgame look like

Never has this much confidence, much more timid, takes easier read choices.

[ManateeDude]

my scum game looks like shit, let me tell you that much

last time I was scum I was lynched D1

Ew self meta

[ManateeDude]

I'd like some other opinions on sando

[ManateeDude]

Korina contradicts himself in the OP

[ManateeDude]

So either
1) Maf and SK had the same target
2) The roleblocker blocked the goon

[ManateeDude]

does anyone else find it odd that Sando voted the only person V/LA and is calling them flat out SK?

He's had the VLA up all game I believe.

She had quite a few contenful posts

[ManateeDude]

Wait I actually think it's highly plausible the roleblocker targeted mafia. Im suggesting the roleblocker targets the same person and if their is only one NK. Than the target is close to conf.scum

[ManateeDude]

@AP

could you explain your top tier TR on Sando?

[ManateeDude]

Ok sleeping now, gn all

[ManateeDude]

@AP

could you explain your top tier TR on Sando?

I'd rather call it a meta-gut mix, but if you ISO him you might actually see he's sticking his neck out too far he can't be the stand-alone scum (SK), and while he didn't push MM much he did specify him as one of two possible scums and never actually defended him or tried to redirect the pressure off him.

Thats what I think made them buddies, some soft pushing for some easy towncred.

[ManateeDude]

can yall throw some votes down preferably on n_m

No. Hes playing bad bot not nessacarily scummy.

[ManateeDude]

I still fail to see your logic on sando AP, some light distancing D1 is certainly not unheard of, and certainly shouldn't clear them of being scum.

[ManateeDude]

Ok case incoming

[ManateeDude]

Spoiler: Sando case

Where's my joke? Also fix the second post please

VOTE: NM

You're meant to send the joke, not get one

RVS vote, NAI

I don't get it.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Oxo is a brand of beef/chicken stock.

Random comment, NAI

Question: are we hypoing?

SK and mafia want to kill the "cop" and there's no way to stop the SK N1 since they've got a 1 shot protection from it. Seems bad on first pass to give any potential hints to the SK or mafia on the "cop".

I mean this was a misunderstanding, but the attempt at explanation felt a little weird. Idk why it pings me so much

Hypoclaiming

Ex "If I am the cop, MM is town."

Wait do you mean tomorrow? Yeah I think that idea rates a discussion. It's going to be interesting given we may have no information on the flips. Given that mafia/SK have even more knowledge compared to town than usual, I'm thinking that hypo-ing tomorrow seems like a good way to address some of that. Haven't thought through the practicalities of it yet though.

Fine post

VOTE: ceejayvinoya like I should have last time.

Pedit: Damn you manatee

are you from the game where cee was super townie and explained his reads? Was he scum?

We (me included with Otter and CJ) just played a newbie (I was SE, Otter was newbie slot after coming back from break, CJ replaced into a newbie game) where CJ was scum.

And I wouldn't want to hypo with flipless kills tbh.

I think it depends on the # of kills. If there's less than 3 kills then

something

happened overnight and town want that information or to free up the vig/RBs knowledge of what happened. That said, hypo might not be the best bet.

A fine post, but the hypoclaiming part makes no sense

Hypoclaiming is quite useless, because the cop really should claim if he's put on stand.

Wat? These two are completely separate functions. The cop (and any other PR) should claim if they're about to get lynched as per normal. Hypoclaiming is to allow you to give results as a PR without giving away your PR status.

First interaction with MM, not anything that would make me think "scumteam"

Ignoring any more posts on hypoing because they're NAI

Happy with AP being town here. Only thing that gave me pause was the calling me out on GS vs cop and simultaneously getting the roleblocker thing wrong but after letting him respond to that his backdown was townie. Scum don't put themselves out there like this and especially don't theory-craft this hard.

I mean, I fail to see his logic here, AP had mostly talked about theory until here and giving a TR seems silly

I think decent chance of scum in ejj/MM, and I don't think they're scum together. 44 through 49 did not feel organic to me and I'm trying to put my finger on anything specific in there, it feels a bit buddying to me. They're both disagreeing with a hypo claim (which is fine to disagree with) using talk about whether the

cop

GS should claim or not if threatened with lynching (which is not a fine conversation, obviously they should and that has no bearing on us hypoing or not). They also both focus on the

cop

GS while ignoring the other PRs, who is the biggest threat to SK since no block there, and obviously a big threat to Mafia as well.

Like I said, A comment on ejj and MM both of whom he made no later comment on.

N_M strikes me as outside scum-meta, but I'm a far cry from an expert on that one, and Math is the one I've heard most discussion of NMs play from previously so I'd like more from both of them.

*shrug*

I also prefer to TR in early days, based on an article written by Math I believe, and basically POE. My early day scumreads tend to be pretty bad, especially compared to my TRs.

weird meta. Idk tbh

AP I'm struggling to see the advantage of hypoing in the case of 3 kills. We've got a vig with a result we don't know and would like, but no way of confirming the vig without them outing themselves, and the setup is such that confirming the vig (them flipping in front of town) confirms their result as well (correct me if I'm wrong here). The only advantage I see of hypoing a 3 kill day2 is to then massclaim D3, if we don't get a vig claim we can narrow down their results. Vig getting eaten N2 onwards is a really bad situation for town though, I'm not sure any hypo on a 3 kill night is worth that risk.

Hence my talk about what to do in the case of 1-2 kills. Either the vig has a result that we'd like to have, or the RB stopped a kill and we'd like to know that, or the vig hit the SK and we'd like to know that, or two factions hit the same person and I don't think we can know that except by POE. My thoughts haven't fully percolated through yet, but I think we can potentially get enough info through to the GS+Vig to let them break the game open at least a little bit.

Ignoring rest on hypo

Wait AP, who is A, B & C in this crocodile escapade?

A = CJ, B = Otter, C = Unreal?

1) I voted LuckyOtter for meta reasons. Everything was fine then.

2) LuckyOtter then explains why my vote on him was wrong.

3) Then UnrealSeal comes along. He votes LuckyOtter, but for reasons different for what I put forward, reasons which I feel come from not reading LuckyOtter's explanation on why my vote was wrong.

4) I voted UnrealSeal and told him I didn't understand his vote, and that LuckyOtter already provided what I had asked of him.

5) UnrealSeal then tells me he voted LuckyOtter for being deflective in his answer.

6) Finding his answer satisfactory, I switched back.

I added numbers for readability and ability to reference.

My main issue is around (2), did you think it fair enough from Otter or did you not think it a reasonable explanation?

When you say deflective from Otter, you're saying that this progression happened:
a) CJ accuses Otter of being unengaged compared to his town-game
b) Otter says "yo no-one engaged me"*
c) CJ accepts unengaged explanation
d) Unreal says "yo that's no excuse, that's deflection"*
e) CJ accepts Unreals deflection point.
(*artistic liberties taken)

Yet:

I don't think Lucky is being deflective in his answer.

This despite what actually happened:

Otter's answer seems deflective and that's my big problem with it.

then very next post:

Darn I see your point.

VOTE: LuckyOtter

I think saying that Unreal voted for different reasons is not really a reasonable statement, you made a case, Otter responded, Unreal thought the response wasn't good enough. To say his point is unrelated isn't really fair... I also think the language of "I see your point" is an indication you agree with it, when I think you're implying in (6) that you merely thought it was good enough to warrant an unvote, rather than agreeing with it.

You're flip-flopping alllll over the place with the deflection point.

Makes some comments on CJ about flip flopping, but still doesnt push them. I see them not voting as a towncred grab in case CJ was the lynch

But that's not agreement. That's me saying I understood him. I "saw" his point. I didn't say "I agree with you" or "hey, you're actually right".

Even if I follow your logic (which I disagree with, but semantics I guess), you then voted someone who you'd made a case on who had then made a convincing argument to you about why your case was weak.

If Otter convinced you your unengaged case was weak, and you didn't agree with Unreal's reasoning (only agreed it was reasonable town-argument if unconvincing to you), then why did you go back to voting Otter? You expressed 1 reason for voting Otter, Unreal expressed another, apparently Otter convinced you the first wasn't reasonable and you never agreed that Unreals was reasonable...yet you then vote Otter? For what reason?

This is mainly apersonal thing, but Otter and CJ is likely T v T imo, and when TvT happens I tend to ignore it instead kf wasting discussion time one two town members

VOTE: not_mafia

why are u doing naked votes and doing nothing of substance

I'm told it's his meta and NAI.

ive played with him a couple years back and although he was trolly he was a lot more substantive

I've seen a lot of people claim this about N_M and I'm yet to see the whole "he's good as town" ever materialise. I've only seen him troll as either alignment and it's just the amount of form of trolling that is NAI. Early votes on MM is town-indicative of him, and believe it or not I'd say the amount of discussion from him D1 was fairly townie too.

I think those that have played with him a decent amount will be fairly confident of reading him, it's a bit of a "ohhh, that's how it works" kind of realisation and you feel confident about it after that. This is also telling me the vig has probably played with N_M a few times since N_M is basically universally seen as vig-bait from what I've seen, so the vig either got blocked, N_M is SK (neither of these are likely) or the vig is confident of N_M read.

CJ flat out isn't Mafia and I very much doubt is SK. He doesn't proactively make cases like he did on MM yesterday, he doesn't answer back like he did with me yesterday. By far the scummiest thing he did was the late vote with no rationalisation on MM, and if MM had flipped town I'd have run at him hard, but he flipped red and CJ doesn't bus at all that I've seen, and that was not what a bus looks like. It could be SK but I don't think so, mostly because I think Ejj is.

I still think from early interactions with MM that Ejj doesn't seem genuine, especially compared to his later case on MM, I think he's SK.

VOTE: Ejj

Sando failed to quote or explain any of the interactions between those two. Mindmelding a bit on ejj being possible SK, but not really strongly

[ManateeDude]

Im really hating Oka's push on Not_Mafia, but I still get towny vibes from it. So Idm joining the seal vote

VOTE: UnrealSeal

L-1

[ManateeDude]

Im really hating Oka's push on Not_Mafia, but I still get towny vibes from it. So Idm joining the seal vote

VOTE: UnrealSeal

L-1

what do you hate about it?

BECAUSE HE DOES THIS ALL THE TIME. ITS NOT SCUMMY FOR HIM.

[ManateeDude]

I'm happy to say I'm not happy with the game state. Where is everybody else?

I kinda wanna hammer seal, and sed what happens overnight.

[ManateeDude]

Can people actually look at my sando case? I mean I provided reasons why I was SRing him, but it was completely glossed over by the unrealseal and nm cases

[ManateeDude]

Spoiler: Sando case

Where's my joke? Also fix the second post please

VOTE: NM

You're meant to send the joke, not get one

RVS vote, NAI

I don't get it.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Oxo is a brand of beef/chicken stock.

Random comment, NAI

Question: are we hypoing?

SK and mafia want to kill the "cop" and there's no way to stop the SK N1 since they've got a 1 shot protection from it. Seems bad on first pass to give any potential hints to the SK or mafia on the "cop".

I mean this was a misunderstanding, but the attempt at explanation felt a little weird. Idk why it pings me so much

Hypoclaiming

Ex "If I am the cop, MM is town."

Wait do you mean tomorrow? Yeah I think that idea rates a discussion. It's going to be interesting given we may have no information on the flips. Given that mafia/SK have even more knowledge compared to town than usual, I'm thinking that hypo-ing tomorrow seems like a good way to address some of that. Haven't thought through the practicalities of it yet though.

Fine post

VOTE: ceejayvinoya like I should have last time.

Pedit: Damn you manatee

are you from the game where cee was super townie and explained his reads? Was he scum?

We (me included with Otter and CJ) just played a newbie (I was SE, Otter was newbie slot after coming back from break, CJ replaced into a newbie game) where CJ was scum.

And I wouldn't want to hypo with flipless kills tbh.

I think it depends on the # of kills. If there's less than 3 kills then

something

happened overnight and town want that information or to free up the vig/RBs knowledge of what happened. That said, hypo might not be the best bet.

A fine post, but the hypoclaiming part makes no sense

Hypoclaiming is quite useless, because the cop really should claim if he's put on stand.

Wat? These two are completely separate functions. The cop (and any other PR) should claim if they're about to get lynched as per normal. Hypoclaiming is to allow you to give results as a PR without giving away your PR status.

First interaction with MM, not anything that would make me think "scumteam"

Ignoring any more posts on hypoing because they're NAI

Happy with AP being town here. Only thing that gave me pause was the calling me out on GS vs cop and simultaneously getting the roleblocker thing wrong but after letting him respond to that his backdown was townie. Scum don't put themselves out there like this and especially don't theory-craft this hard.

I mean, I fail to see his logic here, AP had mostly talked about theory until here and giving a TR seems silly

I think decent chance of scum in ejj/MM, and I don't think they're scum together. 44 through 49 did not feel organic to me and I'm trying to put my finger on anything specific in there, it feels a bit buddying to me. They're both disagreeing with a hypo claim (which is fine to disagree with) using talk about whether the

cop

GS should claim or not if threatened with lynching (which is not a fine conversation, obviously they should and that has no bearing on us hypoing or not). They also both focus on the

cop

GS while ignoring the other PRs, who is the biggest threat to SK since no block there, and obviously a big threat to Mafia as well.

Like I said, A comment on ejj and MM both of whom he made no later comment on.

N_M strikes me as outside scum-meta, but I'm a far cry from an expert on that one, and Math is the one I've heard most discussion of NMs play from previously so I'd like more from both of them.

*shrug*

I also prefer to TR in early days, based on an article written by Math I believe, and basically POE. My early day scumreads tend to be pretty bad, especially compared to my TRs.

weird meta. Idk tbh

AP I'm struggling to see the advantage of hypoing in the case of 3 kills. We've got a vig with a result we don't know and would like, but no way of confirming the vig without them outing themselves, and the setup is such that confirming the vig (them flipping in front of town) confirms their result as well (correct me if I'm wrong here). The only advantage I see of hypoing a 3 kill day2 is to then massclaim D3, if we don't get a vig claim we can narrow down their results. Vig getting eaten N2 onwards is a really bad situation for town though, I'm not sure any hypo on a 3 kill night is worth that risk.

Hence my talk about what to do in the case of 1-2 kills. Either the vig has a result that we'd like to have, or the RB stopped a kill and we'd like to know that, or the vig hit the SK and we'd like to know that, or two factions hit the same person and I don't think we can know that except by POE. My thoughts haven't fully percolated through yet, but I think we can potentially get enough info through to the GS+Vig to let them break the game open at least a little bit.

Ignoring rest on hypo

Wait AP, who is A, B & C in this crocodile escapade?

A = CJ, B = Otter, C = Unreal?

1) I voted LuckyOtter for meta reasons. Everything was fine then.

2) LuckyOtter then explains why my vote on him was wrong.

3) Then UnrealSeal comes along. He votes LuckyOtter, but for reasons different for what I put forward, reasons which I feel come from not reading LuckyOtter's explanation on why my vote was wrong.

4) I voted UnrealSeal and told him I didn't understand his vote, and that LuckyOtter already provided what I had asked of him.

5) UnrealSeal then tells me he voted LuckyOtter for being deflective in his answer.

6) Finding his answer satisfactory, I switched back.

I added numbers for readability and ability to reference.

My main issue is around (2), did you think it fair enough from Otter or did you not think it a reasonable explanation?

When you say deflective from Otter, you're saying that this progression happened:
a) CJ accuses Otter of being unengaged compared to his town-game
b) Otter says "yo no-one engaged me"*
c) CJ accepts unengaged explanation
d) Unreal says "yo that's no excuse, that's deflection"*
e) CJ accepts Unreals deflection point.
(*artistic liberties taken)

Yet:

I don't think Lucky is being deflective in his answer.

This despite what actually happened:

Otter's answer seems deflective and that's my big problem with it.

then very next post:

Darn I see your point.

VOTE: LuckyOtter

I think saying that Unreal voted for different reasons is not really a reasonable statement, you made a case, Otter responded, Unreal thought the response wasn't good enough. To say his point is unrelated isn't really fair... I also think the language of "I see your point" is an indication you agree with it, when I think you're implying in (6) that you merely thought it was good enough to warrant an unvote, rather than agreeing with it.

You're flip-flopping alllll over the place with the deflection point.

Makes some comments on CJ about flip flopping, but still doesnt push them. I see them not voting as a towncred grab in case CJ was the lynch

But that's not agreement. That's me saying I understood him. I "saw" his point. I didn't say "I agree with you" or "hey, you're actually right".

Even if I follow your logic (which I disagree with, but semantics I guess), you then voted someone who you'd made a case on who had then made a convincing argument to you about why your case was weak.

If Otter convinced you your unengaged case was weak, and you didn't agree with Unreal's reasoning (only agreed it was reasonable town-argument if unconvincing to you), then why did you go back to voting Otter? You expressed 1 reason for voting Otter, Unreal expressed another, apparently Otter convinced you the first wasn't reasonable and you never agreed that Unreals was reasonable...yet you then vote Otter? For what reason?

This is mainly apersonal thing, but Otter and CJ is likely T v T imo, and when TvT happens I tend to ignore it instead kf wasting discussion time one two town members

VOTE: not_mafia

why are u doing naked votes and doing nothing of substance

I'm told it's his meta and NAI.

ive played with him a couple years back and although he was trolly he was a lot more substantive

I've seen a lot of people claim this about N_M and I'm yet to see the whole "he's good as town" ever materialise. I've only seen him troll as either alignment and it's just the amount of form of trolling that is NAI. Early votes on MM is town-indicative of him, and believe it or not I'd say the amount of discussion from him D1 was fairly townie too.

I think those that have played with him a decent amount will be fairly confident of reading him, it's a bit of a "ohhh, that's how it works" kind of realisation and you feel confident about it after that. This is also telling me the vig has probably played with N_M a few times since N_M is basically universally seen as vig-bait from what I've seen, so the vig either got blocked, N_M is SK (neither of these are likely) or the vig is confident of N_M read.

CJ flat out isn't Mafia and I very much doubt is SK. He doesn't proactively make cases like he did on MM yesterday, he doesn't answer back like he did with me yesterday. By far the scummiest thing he did was the late vote with no rationalisation on MM, and if MM had flipped town I'd have run at him hard, but he flipped red and CJ doesn't bus at all that I've seen, and that was not what a bus looks like. It could be SK but I don't think so, mostly because I think Ejj is.

I still think from early interactions with MM that Ejj doesn't seem genuine, especially compared to his later case on MM, I think he's SK.

VOTE: Ejj

Sando failed to quote or explain any of the interactions between those two. Mindmelding a bit on ejj being possible SK, but not really strongly

Here it is for reference

[ManateeDude]

I’m not sure what that whole post was really about, but it seems like “Oh I understand this is and I’m trying to make it clearer so that it seems like I’m being pro-town by clearing things up”

Wait what? I tried to clear something up with AP, but the main part of the post was going after CJ saying he was trying to rewrite history. I posted his words and put them side by side to show that they didn't really make sense together. I then follow up in 178 and again in 182. I was pretty clearly digging into CJ there, I dunno how you think I was just trying to "clean things up".

This part makes sense to me. I don't see a case being made against Sando because of this. If anything, Manatee had a better point about Sando not following up on this with a vote, but if I'm reading Manatee's 'case' right, that's about the most damning thing that we see from him. Is that correct, Manatee? (Most of your case is really just an ISO with lots of null reads in it, as far as I can tell).

As far as I can tell the best case against Sando is his lack of vote and focusing too much on theory talk D1. N_M what do you think?

It was more of an analysis per se. I looked through the ISO and got a scum!sando conclusion

[ManateeDude]

It was more of an analysis per se. I looked through the ISO and got a scum!sando conclusion

Why did you call it a case that everyone needs to look at, then?

:shrug:

VOTE: Sando

Seems this is gaining traction

[ManateeDude]

Agree on eragon, but not sando. Cant say im loving oka, but much prefer sando.

[ManateeDude]

Sando v ceejay feels heavy T v T atm. Im gutreading both of them as town because of their tone.

So you believe the entire thing with Ceejay is a huge misunderstanding?

It just turned into a dumb fight I can't see scum initiating

VOTE: MM

This feels very pure atm

what are the chances that this is completely on accident, and he hammered his scum partner?

0.01%

[ManateeDude]

Rber should rb the same person again, vig should attempt to shoot again.

[ManateeDude]

So im guessing that rber hit SK or vig...

[ManateeDude]

what makes you say that

Well only one NK

Vanilla

[ManateeDude]

what if vig is dead
what if vig hit sk

O im big dumby

[ManateeDude]

Anyone see SK!CJV here?

[ManateeDude]

VOTE: CJV

We have enough time to risk this

[ManateeDude]

VOTE: skygazer

Can we quicklynch and move on?

Actually agree with that Oka

[ManateeDude]

I think yall are reading too much into that

FoS mana for pushing quicklynches twice now

Who would you lynch?

[ManateeDude]

Yall can lynch me before lylo but I want some time to gamesolve

Quicklynching can only hurt the town tho

Thinking rn

I was joking

[ManateeDude]

do u actually scumread manatee

[ManateeDude]

VOTE: skygazer

no reason

[ManateeDude]

Eragon never gambits as scum so thats
+towncred

[ManateeDude]

alright manatee why u trolling with that vt claim

I wasnt fully confident in dkygazer flipping SK, so decided to not out my self on two people unlikely to be lynched.

[ManateeDude]

Im actually happy for lynching sando, probably my first time pushing a SR, lynching it and flipping scum.