Open 729 - Cul de Sac!
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^In post 28, Mathdino wrote:i think people underestimate how much higher EV PTs are for scum than townretired...?- wavemode
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https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Cul-de-sacIn post 34, Invisibility wrote:
what do you mean?In post 33, Scioness Sajj wrote:I don't think it is the collapse version of this set up:(retired...?- wavemode
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can you point me to where I said this, I can't seem to find itIn post 48, Mathdino wrote:the idea that town should just say everything they're thinking all the time as honestly as possibleretired...?- wavemode
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my vote is currently on the scummiest person in this game
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could you give a concrete example? I'm curious why you wouldn't just keep that thng to yourself. You don't know your thread partner is townIn post 48, Mathdino wrote:there's a lot of stuff that i don't like to say in the main thread that i would use a PT forretired...?- wavemode
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"there's lots of stuff I'd want to discuss in private"In post 54, Mathdino wrote:come back when you have sincere lines of questioning
"er, like what"
"uh shut up, that's an insincere question"
lmao ok buddyretired...?- wavemode
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You're saying this from experience? A specific game or example? Because in my experience this is nonsense. People are way more likely to say alignment indicative things in the pressure of the open threadIn post 90, StefanB wrote:First of it can be used to scumhunt your neighbour, sometimes more easy than in here.
Except they still might be scum, despite your best thoughts. And even if they're town, that private discussion is selfish because it gives us less content in the main thread with which to sort YOU. And maybe your ideas are good and useful for the town to hear anywaySecond if you townread someone it is great to have someone to excance thoughts
Like I understand why you might personally have these reasons to want to talk privately, but that doesn't mean it's good strategy, especially from the perspective that this is a team game and we're trying to solve the gametogether
This is valid but only at nightI can be storred last thoughts to get across to town in the nightretired...?- wavemode
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Looking at you neighbor and saying " let me scumhunt this guy on my own" is such suboptimal play. He can say something that you think nothing of, but if the wider thread had seen it someone might have caught something about it that you didn't. Town is ALWAYS better off statistically when we're working togetherretired...?- wavemode
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eyyyy whaddupIn post 123, northsidegal wrote:by the way, nice to see you again wavemode!retired...?- wavemode
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she had more than twice as many posts in the main thread as the scum thread but ok
what post are you referring to here and why did it rub you the wrong wayIn post 194, UglyDuck wrote:UnrealSeal (Skummy) - ...snip... Oh also, the peace out RVS post really rubbed me the wrong way.retired...?- wavemode
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89 posts main threadIn post 200, UglyDuck wrote:No she didn’t?
40 posts mafia thread
?
also, I second seal's confusion, what are referring to, where did he say thatretired...?- wavemode
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well the reason I think he's scum is that his catch up post is mostly game narration and large swathes of it sound manufactured. person A is towny because they're "talking", person B is towny because they're "interacting", fluff like that. as we've seen, the few possibly worthwhile points he made in his post turned out to be bullshit. he treads super light with his scumlean on mylo in a way that makes him seem pointlessly nervous ("obv not super solid on that though" - er, yes it IS obvious that your read is gut, so why make it a point to reiterate this). combine this with the fact that most of the post is townreads and it sounds like someone trying to fly under the radar and not step on people's toes. overall it was a long post dressed up to look like game analysis but was actually mostly meaningless. players like this flip scum most of the timeIn post 226, BuJaber wrote:Wave: if I misssd it I'm sorry but reiterating it is helpful anyway. Any reason why you feel so strongly about an Uglyduck wagon?
but to answer your question, the reason I feel *strongly* about his lynch is on policy. he spells scummy with a Kretired...?- wavemode
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this was exactly my assumption, which is why i said what i saidIn post 396, Scioness Sajj wrote:that was his last message to me, posted around the time of his last message in the thread.
im not sure why bujaber is suddenly assuming otherwiseretired...?- wavemode
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you've never been wrong about a townread?In post 464, Mathdino wrote:but they are my strongest townreads next to NSG and i would be fairly upset if you lynched them anyway
what special right do you have to tell us not to lynch someone we believe is scumretired...?- wavemode
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not what i asked. townreads tend to be correct. there's a lot of town and few scumIn post 472, Mathdino wrote:if you can show me that your scumread accuracy is significant enough to trust your tells (or that you can read specific players well) i'll defer to you
what i asked is why you don't believe it possible for you to be wrong. because of meta? what is so different here from uglyduck's typical scum game, in your opinion?retired...?- wavemode
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if you think uglyduck hasn't been doing those things this game then i suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. strongly.In post 475, Mathdino wrote:now if you're asking about uglyduck in particular
there's a certain... cadence to his scumplay
he gets combative, he acts like he has something to prove and like he wants to appear like he's present and doing things
but regardless of that, your words were, "but they are my strongest townreads and i would be fairly upset if you lynched them anyway"
we're not running close to deadline and this isn't just a "welp fuck it" lynch. we genuinely believe uglyduck is scum. it shouldn't be upsetting to you for us to lynch someone who, realistically, if kept alive, will have a wagon on them every game day, since such a large number of players scumread them. it should be worthwhile to lynch them to help us sort the game and get rid of them before lylo. so why do you consider uglyduck to be so valuable? do you actually consider it to be a bad lynch from a strategic perspective? and if so why?retired...?- wavemode
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implying i haven'tIn post 481, Mathdino wrote:go meta uglyduck
implying i ever asked you to vote uglyduckIn post 481, Mathdino wrote:you're basically asking me why i'm not just going along with whatever other people's reads are
implying our lynch of uglyduck is on policyIn post 481, Mathdino wrote:he's not some anti-town fuck, there's nothing policy lynchable about him and he's producing more content than half the playerlist
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because uglyduck is a better lynchIn post 571, Awoo wrote:Still waiting for a reason not to lynch AA9retired...?- wavemode
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it continues to baffle me that an experienced player can make statements like this in good faithIn post 576, Mathdino wrote:Awoo if you're townreading me you should be townreading UglyDuck by extensionretired...?- wavemode
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the kind of player i am is realistic. i think you do have okay reasons to townread uglyduck, i just disagree with them. and even if i did agree with them, i still wouldn't consider them actionable since meta can be very easily manipulated, both purposefully when you know you're playing with people who have seen your scumgame before, and incidentally by getting better at the game of mafia and by random life factors. i would never lock someone away as do-not-lynch purely on the basis of metaIn post 579, Mathdino wrote:Like you seem like the kind of person that lynches people that I say are town being like "math you can't possibly have good reason to think UglyDuck is town"
And then blames the mislynch on the lynchee instead of taking responsibility for your reads
If I'm right, this is gonna be a long game
If someone is in my top 3 town, people lynching them have no knowledge of my reads accuracy
even if i were doing a meta-analysis of uglyduck, what i see is a player who is capable. as scum he knows how to make himself seem like the victim. he knows how to look involved in game strategy, and he knows how to pick apart people's arguments logically. anything i might feel like townreading him for in this game, he has faked in past scumgames. the trap i'd say he falls into (in his past scum games as well as in this game) is classic egocentrism, where pretty much every post he makes is either about himself or his own reads/observations or responding to other people's reads of him. in his town games he spends more time trying to understand other people's points, asking them to explain and elaborate on their own thoughts, on things that aren't about him.
but hey, i could be wrong. maybe he is not manipulating anything and you do indeed see things that i do not see in ugly's past games that indicate he is town. that wouldn't be anyone's fault but my own. but surely you understand my perspective. i've lynched dozens of scum who very good players have sworn to me were town. so forgive me if my skepticism of your certainty comes off as condescension.
in addition, you must also understand that whichever lynch you redirect people to from uglyduck could be, as you yourself said, hilariously wrong. besides that, with only 5 days left in day 1, if the uglyduck wagon were to dissolve at this point we could easily be looking at an 11th hour compromise lynch on whichever player just happens to have low game presence at that moment. at least with uglyduck we are lynching someone with significant player interaction we can analyze, and someone whom a large number of players genuinely scumread, who will thus likely be a liability in the late game (if he does happen to be town).
all of this, to summarily respond to your post as well as UglyDuck's question above, is why i strongly disagree with dissolving the uglyduck wagon at this point. he is, both in my subjective opinion as well as in terms of objective game strategy, the best lynch.retired...?- wavemode
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again, confirmation bias. you're seeing what you want to see by drawing a comparison between two completely different players in two completely different contexts. none of this is a valid reason to derail the uglyduck wagon. i could just as easily find any player in this game and make the argument that they are playing the same as some scum i played with in the past, and therefore they are scumretired...?- wavemode
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you want mutant lynched purely because his wagon went away quickly?In post 601, UglyDuck wrote:
can't we try to start Mutant instead? It feels like a much better spot.In post 600, Mathdino wrote:I'm policy lynching aa9 if it comes down to the wire
If she can't pay enough attention to the game to even notice who's voting who, she's not worth the effort
Fucking do something, people
UglyDuck get on scionessretired...?- wavemode
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this could certainly be theatrics, personally i dont know scion well enough to make that call
but i would keep in mind how demotivating it is to be mislynched when you are really putting in effort
it only ever happened to me once and i literally quit the site
so idk, just looking over everything i'm still leaning town on scion (that is to say, im null on 736, but i was already leaning town on her previously so that has not changed)retired...?- wavemode
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i dont call myself a mafia expert but i do have a pretty high town winrate
something I learned over time is, the one thing you truly have control over in this game is your own play
and the only person's alignment you can ever know for sure is your own
if you're town, throwing away your life is the same as throwing away the game
do reconsiderretired...?- wavemode
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since when is that a scum strat in real lifeIn post 783, Mathdino wrote:god i just fit the stereotypical "jump off a mislynch after i started it and preemptively blame the people on it" scumstrat
can you point to somewhere someone did that as scum so i can laugh at them
also, VOTE: unrealsealretired...?- wavemode
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invis's naked hammer is sort of the towniest thing he's done this gameIn post 788, Mathdino wrote:maybe that tell died before 2017
regardless how is unreal scummier to you than invis's naked hammer
besides that, it wasn't a hammer and we definitely should still be looking to form a new wagonretired...? - wavemode
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