Open 726 - Revenge of the Vengeful (Endgame)

[TrinityNZ]

@Oath, what are your reads right now? Can you give us a list with some reasons?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: NM

[Oath]

@Oath, what are your reads right now? Can you give us a list with some reasons?

Honestly the only people I feel odd about are you, Rei, Marsh, and Ice but you're also the majority of the activity.

I'm gonna re-read and see if I can get myself hyped up about being involved because I think my general disinterest is why my activity is low here.

[Almost50]

List of reads, part 2 (My own reads worded by myself, not quotes & comments)

Town

because green = town

Enigma.

He screams town to me, I feel genuine scumhunting coming from that slot, and the reaction to my opener post was very town-like.

Iceman.

He was scummy at the beggining, but his posts show someone really trying to understand the game and help town.

Townish

Not_Mafia.

I know this will be seen as weird by most people, but I believe he is town a lot. However, that read is mainly based on meta, therefore he cannot go higher than townish in my mind.

RadiantCowbells.

He wanted to strategize on the lynches, which is pro-town. His general behavior is pro-town. However, I have a doubt on him, mainly gut, and the fact that he potentially tried to buddy me at start. Logically, he's town, but I have a doubt.

Null-neutral

- Rei, Oath.

A50.

I don't like the slot. We would really need you in, sir.

Trinity.

Is not contributing, but posts. In other words, he's active but not useful to town. I think someone said he usually was all over the place as town; we are not seeing that here.

Mafiascum

WARNING: MOONLOGIC ALERT! Everybody take cover!

I want to adopt this readlist for the execution of RC's -plan (with my own modification).

Let's lynch Trinity. They are instructed to vengekill me. If Trinity is green she takes out the "next scummiest slot" thus acting like a town vig.

If she's scum, she will be faced with a dilemma. Venging me takes away an almost guaranteed mislynch (before the flip), but the not venging me (for WIFOM) doesn't work the way it should because it's obvious we're not scum together. So, I am betting on Trinity venging me either way and that way we either lose 1 scum for 1 town (to our benefit) or 2 townies who are being terrible at obv!towning (not ideal, but it removes the confusion and forces everyone to reevaluate their reads).

The only downside is if Trinity is a townie we are in LyLo already by D2, but then that is very much the case in 6/9 * 5/8 = 30/72 i.e. 41.66% assuming random lynches/venges, so very much expected in this setup anyway.

[Enigma]

VOTE: Trinity

Hey Enigma, what’s the reason for the vote on me?

I get a good maybe scum feel from you. I would put it down to remaining quite neutral in the game thus far, and slipping under the radar in the early game and being quite comfortable with it. Before the votes started piling up, there was a lack of association with other players and reluctance to engage in good old scum hunting.

And then this falls down to being a good lynch with these game dynamics. A maybe scum is good, because then we can "leash the vengekills". And if we were to mislynch and we (maybe you?) manage to hit a scum with the vengekill, even better as we control who get killed or not. So the risk is there for pursuing a maybe target over a defs scum, but reward also.

So assuming you are town, who do you wanna vengekill and why?

[Enigma]

VOTE: NM

Can we leave NM until tomorrow (hint: vengekill).

[TrinityNZ]

VOTE: Trinity

Hey Enigma, what’s the reason for the vote on me?

I get a good maybe scum feel from you. I would put it down to remaining quite neutral in the game thus far, and slipping under the radar in the early game and being quite comfortable with it. Before the votes started piling up, there was a lack of association with other players and reluctance to engage in good old scum hunting.

And then this falls down to being a good lynch with these game dynamics. A maybe scum is good, because then we can "leash the vengekills". And if we were to mislynch and we (maybe you?) manage to hit a scum with the vengekill, even better as we control who get killed or not. So the risk is there for pursuing a maybe target over a defs scum, but reward also.

So assuming you are town, who do you wanna vengekill and why?

Thanks, this is a good explanation. I agree my scum hunting hasnt been aggressive enough, so I see where you’re coming from. If I die, I’ll probably choose NM.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

List of reads, part 2 (My own reads worded by myself, not quotes & comments)

Town

because green = town

Enigma.

He screams town to me, I feel genuine scumhunting coming from that slot, and the reaction to my opener post was very town-like.

Iceman.

He was scummy at the beggining, but his posts show someone really trying to understand the game and help town.

Townish

Not_Mafia.

I know this will be seen as weird by most people, but I believe he is town a lot. However, that read is mainly based on meta, therefore he cannot go higher than townish in my mind.

RadiantCowbells.

He wanted to strategize on the lynches, which is pro-town. His general behavior is pro-town. However, I have a doubt on him, mainly gut, and the fact that he potentially tried to buddy me at start. Logically, he's town, but I have a doubt.

Null-neutral

- Rei, Oath.

A50.

I don't like the slot. We would really need you in, sir.

Trinity.

Is not contributing, but posts. In other words, he's active but not useful to town. I think someone said he usually was all over the place as town; we are not seeing that here.

Mafiascum

WARNING: MOONLOGIC ALERT! Everybody take cover!

I want to adopt this readlist for the execution of RC's -plan (with my own modification).

Let's lynch Trinity. They are instructed to vengekill me. If Trinity is green she takes out the "next scummiest slot" thus acting like a town vig.

If she's scum, she will be faced with a dilemma. Venging me takes away an almost guaranteed mislynch (before the flip), but the not venging me (for WIFOM) doesn't work the way it should because it's obvious we're not scum together. So, I am betting on Trinity venging me either way and that way we either lose 1 scum for 1 town (to our benefit) or 2 townies who are being terrible at obv!towning (not ideal, but it removes the confusion and forces everyone to reevaluate their reads).

The only downside is if Trinity is a townie we are in LyLo already by D2, but then that is very much the case in 6/9 * 5/8 = 30/72 i.e. 41.66% assuming random lynches/venges, so very much expected in this setup anyway.

I can agree with this.

[Ankamius]

Vote Count 1.10

[3]

TrinityNZ

- Enigma, Almost50, IcemanCh

(L-2)

[2]

Not_Mafia

- TrinityNZ, RadiantCowbells
[2]

Rei

- Oath, Marshmallow Marshall
[1]

Marshmallow Marshall

- Rei
[1]

RadiantCowbells

- Not_Mafia
Almost50 -
Enigma -
IcemanCh -
Oath -


Not Voting (0):

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2018-07-24 11:30:00) from now, or July 24th, 10:30 AM CST (GMT-6).

Prodding: Rei
Replacing: N/A

[Almost50]

I can agree with this.

Your vote is needed for the lynch to go though.

[Enigma]

WARNING: MOONLOGIC ALERT! Everybody take cover!

I want to adopt this readlist for the execution of RC's -plan (with my own modification).

Let's lynch Trinity. They are instructed to vengekill me. If Trinity is green she takes out the "next scummiest slot" thus acting like a town vig.

If she's scum, she will be faced with a dilemma. Venging me takes away an almost guaranteed mislynch (before the flip), but the not venging me (for WIFOM) doesn't work the way it should because it's obvious we're not scum together. So, I am betting on Trinity venging me either way and that way we either lose 1 scum for 1 town (to our benefit) or 2 townies who are being terrible at obv!towning (not ideal, but it removes the confusion and forces everyone to reevaluate their reads).

The only downside is if Trinity is a townie we are in LyLo already by D2, but then that is very much the case in 6/9 * 5/8 = 30/72 i.e. 41.66% assuming random lynches/venges, so very much expected in this setup anyway.

This is so WIFOMy I don't know what to think Deal with it after the flip.

Plus Trinity mentioned she wants to vengekill N_M ... it kinda needs her to go through with it.

[Almost50]

Yes, Trinity needs to confirm sticking to the plan. I dunno how to deal with it after the flip though. It needs to be dealt with now because upon the flip she is supposed to take someone with her already.

[Enigma]

Thanks, this is a good explanation. I agree my scum hunting hasnt been aggressive enough, so I see where you’re coming from. If I die, I’ll probably choose NM.

@ Milktank, any thoughts/comments on this

[Not_Mafia]

What’s a milk tank

[Enigma]

What’s a milk tank

I meant miltank

[TrinityNZ]

Yes, Trinity needs to confirm sticking to the plan. I dunno how to deal with it after the flip though. It needs to be dealt with now because upon the flip she is supposed to take someone with her already.

TBH I don’t understand this ‘plan’ and I haven’t seen much support for it. What does everyone else think?

[Almost50]

Yes, Trinity needs to confirm sticking to the plan. I dunno how to deal with it after the flip though. It needs to be dealt with now because upon the flip she is supposed to take someone with her already.

TBH I don’t understand this ‘plan’ and I haven’t seen much support for it. What does everyone else think?

What don't you understand? I'm offering myself as your vengekill target. If we both flip town the rest of players are forced to reevaluate their reads. If one of us flips scum they can carry on accordingly. I obviously know my own alignment, but it seems like I'm failing to show it, so it would be good for the town to remove me (and the same applies to you regardless of your alignment).

[Enigma]

Yes, Trinity needs to confirm sticking to the plan. I dunno how to deal with it after the flip though. It needs to be dealt with now because upon the flip she is supposed to take someone with her already.

TBH I don’t understand this ‘plan’ and I haven’t seen much support for it. What does everyone else think?

What don't you understand? I'm offering myself as your vengekill target. If we both flip town the rest of players are forced to reevaluate their reads. If one of us flips scum they can carry on accordingly. I obviously know my own alignment, but it seems like I'm failing to show it, so it would be good for the town to remove me (and the same applies to you regardless of your alignment).

Then if we were to go the other way round and lynch you A50, then who would you want to vengekill? Trinity?

[Almost50]

Then if we were to go the other way round and lynch you A50, then who would you want to vengekill? Trinity?

Same thing, yes. Removing the 2 slots that are globally confusing/being SR'd by the majority.

[Almost50]

I mean, the way I see it: Trying to be a hero in this setup can severely damage the game for town. If you're spot on, fine. But if you're wrong not only do you take out another townie, but -the worst part- is you remove someone who was unlikely to get lynched and leaving the one(s) that are more likely to be lynched anyway, i.e. costing us a lynch we could have utilized in a better way.

[Enigma]

I mean, the way I see it: Trying to be a hero in this setup can severely damage the game for town. If you're spot on, fine. But if you're wrong not only do you take out another townie, but -the worst part- is you remove someone who was unlikely to get lynched and leaving the one(s) that are more likely to be lynched anyway, i.e. costing us a lynch we could have utilized in a better way.

Assuming one red flip today, what do you think about D2 then? Who to lynch?

[Almost50]

I dunno! I'd be gone anyway. Just do a global readlist I guess and repeat the process maybe?

[Almost50]

I mean, the game is designed to give us control over the NK if we mislynch (NK being used loosely, of course). We only have one mislynch before Lylo, but that's only if we also miss-venge. Even then, if we mislynch for a "3rd time" (now calling the venge shot a mislynch) we have a 4th shot at preventing the scum from winning it outright. If we mislynch twice and agree on two miss-venges then we sure deserve to lose fair and square!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I can agree with this.

Your vote is needed for the lynch to go though.

4 days, 19 hours and 31 minutes. No haste needed.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yes, Trinity needs to confirm sticking to the plan. I dunno how to deal with it after the flip though. It needs to be dealt with now because upon the flip she is supposed to take someone with her already.

TBH I don’t understand this ‘plan’ and I haven’t seen much support for it. What does everyone else think?

Scummmmyyyyyyy VOTE: TrinityNZ sounds like a scum trying to see if he has a chance to escape from that plan.