Open 729 - Cul de Sac!

[Almost50]

Hi, all.

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: I am here (i.e. joined this game) to mess with you all. Nothing more and nothing less. Prepare to let go of your sanity and SCREAM!

Now could somebody give me the crème de la crème of the tl;dr of this game? Like, whaty's the case on Awoo? Who has claimed what? etc...

[Almost50]

also this is mountainous lol

LOL.. I am reading the wiki page NOW.

As I said .. I saw the empty slot and just hopped in. I literally hadn't read anything in this thread as of yet (aside from the VC at the top of this page).

[Almost50]

Ok.. so according to the OP we have 3 scums? Because the wiki says 2!! << This is a town slip and I insist on everyone TRing me for it.

P.S. I don't have access to the neighborhood(s) yet. Let me check if HWO gave me access w/o sending me a PM though.

[Almost50]

OK.. looks like I do have access to both PTs. Let me go check.

[Almost50]

Could you explain in your own words why was Math townreading ugly duck, based on neighborhood.

From a quick skim it's a meta read. Dino thinks UD is playing outside his "skum!range" (and I happen to agree on the conclusion. UD was too careful with giving away such info as who his other neighbor was, which strikes me as cautious town rather than cunning "skum")

[Almost50]

Mathdino asked him outright who his other neighbor was and Duck refused?

Yes. here are also indications that Dino was trying to bait the NK on him, and with their history skum!UD would have probably shot Dino before NSG.

[Almost50]

*There are

[Almost50]

Am I drunk? AM I being trolled??!

I am @ the bottom of page 14, and I have 2 main BIG question marks still:

1- Are there TWO scums (like everyone is saying based on the wikipage setup) or do we have THREE of them (based on the P0)??
2- Why did Dino keep saying NSG was his neighbor and she never objected and neither did either of his/my real 2 neighbors!

On a separate note, both wingedcatgirl (now Lavos) and ArcAngel9 (now Toranaga) are looking scummier by the minute, and I have no idea why Invisibility ended up being the D1 lynch. I'll keep on reading, but -for now- consider my vote on one of these two.

[Almost50]

So let me get this straight UD felt pretty sure dino is town, enough to discuss some plan with him while at the same time refusing to tell Dino who his other neighbor is?

Is that what went on in the PT?

I dunno about the plan. I said I skimmed the PT to get the answer. Right now I'm trying to read the thread frist and then will get to the PTs (bc obviously I won;t get the context of the PTs unless I can link them with the thread content with timestamps and all. The PTs themselves are 1 page and 2 pages)

[Almost50]

376 reminds me of Mastina scum!posting!!

By the EoP 16:

Town-all-Town: mutantdevle/BuJaber (Also NSG, but she already flipped)
Leaning Town: Awoo (was StefanB)/UnrealSeal/UglyDuck (PT with UD unaccounted for yet)
Null-townish: Scioness Sajj/Myloninja13/wavemode (PT with wavemode unaccounted for yet)
Nothing to evaluate, but already flipped anyway: Invisibility
Strong scum leans: wingedcatgirl/ArcAngel9

Notes: When did wcg jump off the AA9 wagon exactly?? This remains to be noted.

[Almost50]

454: Thanks, I hate it
UNVOTE: VOTE: UglyDuck

That's EXACTLY what I've been looking for/expecting. Mainly, I wanted to know if wcg unvoted AA9 first or Dino did. Then I wanted to know her reasoning for it.

So, unvoting AA9 when she gets to L-2 (when you've been leading the wagon on her) is

always

alarming in my book. The question is whether it's scum jumping off a scum partner, or scum jumping off a town wagon that now looks like going through.

My answer is it's more likely the former, since wcg needed to simultaneously find a different vote target to justify it. Usually when scum jump off a town wagon they just unvote and say something along the lines of "I'm not too confident.." or "This wagon is building too fast.." or "I don't want to end the day just yet.." or "I don't trust X on the wagon..".. etc. etc.

So, in conclusion I'm calling Lavos and Toranaga as the scum pair here. Still not sure if there should be a 3rd, but obviously you all are confident HWS made a mistake in the OP, so I'll look for a 3rd scum if and only if we lynch these two and the game still doesn't end.

NOTE: I got what I wanted, so I won't be reading the rest of the main thread. I'll now check the neighborhoods for details.

[Almost50]

Actually, Dino has told wave why he TRs UD in a more explicit way than he told/hinted to UD himself.

Paraphrased: "I am also neighbor w/ UD, and he's not acting the way I would expect scum!him to (in order to pocket me). Mainly he's not been sheeping my reads but rather has his own opinion.

Nothing more from these PTs, except UD is indeed town, and that if I combine mine and Dino's reads then BuJaber is confirmed Town by a good margin

[Almost50]

@ِAwoo: You wanna help me lynch scum? Pick one of Lavos or Toranaga. UD is 99% Town (Second only to BuJaber and even stronger than mutant, all of which I have down as "Town-all-Town" now)

[Almost50]

@ِAwoo: You wanna help me lynch scum? Pick one of Lavos or Toranaga. UD is 99% Town (Second only to BuJaber and even stronger than mutant, all of which I have down as "Town-all-Town" now)

I'm town though

maybe I should read lavos

Please do

[Almost50]

A50 I know it's pretty much impossible for a human being to answer this one completely unbiased but if you did not replace Dino and you saw the neighborhood claims going down like they did (Dino claiming nsg is his neighbour and none of the 3 (possibly 5 if you count nsg's neighbours) saying anything about it, how would you feel about dino? Nsg? Anyone else.

Does it make a difference to you to know that nsg's actual neighbors are mylo and catgirl (lavos now) based on all the claims we've had? (Obviously you know dino's neighbors now)

Let's break this down to chunks:

1- Dino & NSG: It's a Town move for both. Dino does gambit like that often (but only with people who know him well enough to go along with it) and NSG did go along with it. To be more elaborate, Dino was both baiting scum to come his way AND testing NSG for a reaction.

2- My neighbors: Knowing both players I don't even think they saw it at time. They do not pay attention to details. It's a bit "odd" rather than "scummy", but -at the same time- I could be biased because I TR them both.

3- NSG's neighbors: trying to be lenient and giving them the benefit of the doubt; if NSG didn't tell each of them who her other neighbor was then there's no way for them to tell if it was true or false. Only if NSG did tell either of them who the other is would that particular player be able to tell Dino was lying/gambiting.

Note: You said "unbiased", so I tried my best. If I added the bias in I'd say wcg is confirmed scum who did think Dino was neighbors with NSG and decided to break the bond as early as possible so took NSG out on N1.

[Almost50]

I actually also prefer Lavos over Tor for today's lynch, but I want BuJaber's input here as he seems more confident in scum!Tor

[Almost50]

I've explained it before, but here's the tl;dr: It was wcg who jumped off the AA9 wagon and not vice versa. The move opff the wagon is scummy by itself. It could either be off a p or a townie, so Tor (AA9) is a less confident SR than Lavos (wcg) is for me.

[Almost50]

I've explained it before, but here's the tl;dr: It was wcg who jumped off the AA9 wagon and not vice versa. The move opff the wagon is scummy by itself. It could either be off a p or a townie, so Tor (AA9) is a less confident SR than Lavos (wcg) is for me.

why is it scummy?

1168! I mean, I haven't been here for long. All my posts are within the previous 2 pages.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Lavos

Let me start a wagon here then.

[Almost50]

viewtopic.php?p=10264223#p10264223

A50 your own slot unvoted someone they were pushing here at l1 when the lynch was about to go through, is the scumteam a50/scioness?

I wouldn't blame you if used that to justify a vote on me.

On another note: What is beetlejuice?

[Almost50]

LOL.. I went back to see why Mathdino unvoted there, and it appears to have only happened after Scioness voted herself to L-1.

Also, you did not just unvote. You literally hopped unto another wagon. You didn't even say "I no longer SR AA9" or something along those lines. If you did (have a change of heart) the townie thing was to explain your updated read. You didn't, and it felt like either "I hope this mislynch goes through but I don't want to be blamed for it" OR "OMG! This went too fat and I didn't expect everyone to sheep me on my buddy".

This (jumping off a wagon when it looks like it might go through) I've seen often enough and do use as a scum hunting tool all the time. If you're town (big IF) be sure to not hop off a wagon when it reaches L-2/L-1 without a goof reason if I'm in the game.

HERE is an example of one time I caught scum for this exact same reason. (btw, Pintu hopped off Annen's wagon and their third was mutant, so mutant knows exactly what I'm talking about)

[Almost50]

MY POST WAS LITERALLY RESPONDING TO YOUR POST. OF COURSE IF I'M HERE BUT NOT ACTIVELY POSTING SOMEONE POSTING SOMETHING I WANT TO RESPOND TO IS GOING TO MAKE ME POST.

Chillax!! Watch that blood pressure.

[Almost50]

Idk, when you say "I'm not really playing the game or reading it and I don't have real reads" three times in two consecutive posts it starts to feel fake and planned

I don't see where I did that 3 times in 2 posts so I'm assuming you are just being hyperbolic about how I keep stating I'm not currently interested in this game in the slightest. Maybe I keep stating that because people keep expecting me to have content.

Wait! Are not interested in getting interested or you just not interested but interested in being interested? Now that's an interesting question.

[Almost50]

@Tor: Does it not tell you anything that half the players are willing to lynch you? I mean, let's assume you're town.. you haven't shown it! This is hard for me to grasp bc I know you

can

obv!town. Give me some effort. Give some analysis. Give me something to make me go "Oh, this is Town!Tor for sure. I won't be lynching this one."

This game is about reads and impressions (and especially so when there are no PRs). Let's

hypothetically

assume BuJaber is scum. Good for him and he deserves to win because he managed to conceal it and looked townie enough I wouldn't even consider lynching him in a 3-p LyLo.

Now everybody please stop whining and blaming everyone else but yourselves. If this game had PRs I'd understand some would not want to obv!town so they won't get NK'd before they deliver some results. In mountainous though all you have to do is obv!town and scum hunt w/o conservation. Am I right or amirite?

[Almost50]

So let me get this straight UD felt pretty sure dino is town, enough to discuss some plan with him while at the same time refusing to tell Dino who his other neighbor is?

Is that what went on in the PT?

Sorry if I missed it @A50 but did you respond to this?

I probably didn't. Here's what happened:

1- UD asks if there's a special approach that should improve our chances to win (Dino does that a lot in open setups)
2- Dino suggests optimizing the use of PTs and asks who UD's other neighbor is.
3- UD declines based on it being too early for him to know Dino's alignment for sure and suggests it could be done if either is put @L-1
4- Dino says he would be sharing everything in public if he got to L-1
5- Dino says to treat him as town and lynch him in LyLo if he lives that long
6- Dino states a TR in both his neighbors (and outs wave as the other one at this point)
7- Dino also states a TR on Scioness but asks for UD's reasons to TR Scioness. He is bothered by NSG not TRing Scioness and

says he will trust NSG's read over his.

(I missed this part when I skimmed the PT before)
8- UD finally declares AA9 as his other neighbor and says she's been inactive site-wide

The plan only came in the middle of page 2.

I think I can lynch Scioness as well, but I need to go back and see what exactly NSG said there.

[Almost50]

After we've decided on a lynch but before it happens, would everyone be alright posting the full contents of their PTs? There's something I've been thinking about.

Anyone up for this?

Also, since my own scum hinting tools aren't convincing to some of you, how about a combined A50-Mathdino-NSG readlist:

BuJaber
UD
mutant
MyLo
wave
Unreal
Awoo
wcg (Lavos)
AA9 (Tora)
Scioness

[Almost50]

sigh

VOTE: almost50

NOOOOO! You're supposed to wait for the night phase and kill me like you did NSG.

[Almost50]

No mod notes... Don't make this too easy on me!

Roger!

consider me v/la until a50 is out of this game

@Mod: There you go, boss! Anytime.

[Almost50]

454: Thanks, I hate it
UNVOTE: VOTE: UglyDuck

I like this from WCG. I also really hate duck's posting there. he is making a convoluted argument out of bujaber asking him to hammer, like he knows arcangel is going to flip town and fears the consequence of being scumread for hammering him.

He did ask Dino for advice about this one (Dino wasn't active to give one). He said something to the lines of "I am a vote away from being hammered and AA9 has one vote less. Should I even the wagons

despite the fact I TR her?

"

[Almost50]

Fine..

VOTE: Awoo

[Almost50]

why is a50 alive

why is bujabber dead

why are replacements townreading me so strongly

why

VOTE: Scioness

This is the scummiest post I have read in more than a year! You yourself had BuJaber at the top of your TRs and in a game like this (no PRs) it's the towniest slot that's always gonna get whacked.

My vote is pivotted and cemented on Scioness. NSG is always RIGHT (and that's why she gets NK'd early so often)

[Almost50]

I don't want to vote Uglyduck for fear of lol/quickhammer though

Yeah, same. We can use this day phase properly!

I very much agree.

[v}UD[/v]

Also, summon N_M.

[Almost50]

VOTE: UD

So much for TYPING the vote tags.

[Almost50]

Because I'm his scum buddy and I feel like bussing him already.
No, really.. because I'm skum and he's town and I want to cut the day short.
OK, ok.. it's because I know he's town and I said so and you boobs insist on lynching him so I decided to show you the light.
Or maaaaaybe... I'm town and I finally realized he's skum and wanted to be a team player?

Yeah.. pick one and hammer already!

[Almost50]

Eh. I told you guys, UD is pure TOWN.

VOTE: Scioness

[Almost50]

In no world can UD come up with 1493 as scum.

Vite Scioness, and if this flips green you have me to blame.

[Almost50]

I wrote better walls than that in my first newbie game as scum lmao

And unlike UD I actually made good points

You're not UD though.

I mean, if >I< just posted that it'd be NAI for me. If it was NSG though that'd be definitely town her. It's all about play style and meta. Some player are even better at being scum than playing town. Some are strong as town and mediocre as scum... you get the picture.

[Almost50]

This game is boring I want the people that can actually make the world spin w.o doing something crazy/illogical (I can do the world spinning part, but I'm eccentric)

[Almost50]

ok so are we doing

uglyduck

the second towniest player in the game

or are we not

if we're not i think we should flashwagon

mutant

the

towniest

player in the game

Yeah, that's more like it.

[Almost50]

If this flips red the other is off the wagon. If it flips green at least one, but possibly both scum are on it. Let's see.

[Almost50]

Also, if it flips red I'll be somebody;s bitch for the rest of the game. Someone

on

the wagon, that is.

[Almost50]

Mutant >> Unreal

These are the only 2 off the UD wagon (aside from myself and UD himself). With UD flipping red I am willing to reverse my read(s) and especially so on mutant (because I obviously haven't had good reads before).

Also, checking UD's read list I see he called Unreal scummy and mutant towny so mutant >> Unreal.

VOTE: mutant

[Almost50]

like how mathdino called duck town and used PT interactions to justify it. PT interactions that probably don't exist. PT interactions which probably took place in the scum PT.

That can easily be disproved by a massclaim of neighborhoods. I'm sure we still can work out the whole circle if we claim them now.

[Almost50]

Also, if UD was against it at some point it must've been for a reason, and I reckon their partner came up with that reason.

Mine are/were wave and UD. wave can claim his other neighbour and we can draw the whole figure going so forth

[Almost50]

except it doesn't disprove since Mafia can in fact live next to Mafia according to the wiki page for this setup.

Well, you said "a PT that probably doesn't exist", so this is a way to prove it does for starters. THEN you can change your argument accordingly.

Do you see any downside to claiming neighbors at this point though?

[Almost50]

Mutant >> Unreal

These are the only 2 off the UD wagon (aside from myself and UD himself). With UD flipping red I am willing to reverse my read(s) and especially so on mutant (because I obviously haven't had good reads before).

Also, checking UD's read list I see he called Unreal scummy and mutant towny so mutant >> Unreal.

VOTE: mutant

Lol. I was sheeping your slot and you know it.

Who's your other neighbor again?

[Almost50]

OK.. it looks like:

NSG-mylo-Tor-UD-50-wave-scioness-awoo-BuJ-unreal-mutant-Vizzy-Lavos-NSG

Now let's see.. 1st lynch was Vizzt and 1st NK was NSG = Lavos was cut loose of BOTH neighbors << Not good for Lavos (remember I did suspect them for the Tor wagon thing??)

Then we lost Awoo & BuJ, then the mod stopped updating the OP

Then we lynched UD and Tor was NK'd, making Mylo also w/o neighbors.

Conclusion: Final scum is between Lavos/Mylo

VOTE: Lavos

[Almost50]

Living neighbors:

(mylo)
(50-wave-scioness)
(unreal-mutant)
(Lavos)

[Almost50]

UglyDuck (5) (Lynch): wavemode, Lavos, Scioness Sajj, Myloninja13, Toranaga

Second vote and second last vote on flipped scum. The question is whether it's more likely for Lavos to distance early or Mylo to bus late? Let me go check what Tor had to say about Mylo (he TR'd Lavos as far as I can remember, and called my case there BS)

[Almost50]

Uhm... what does the death of neighbours change about scum possibilities exactly lol?

My view! That's what it changes.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Mylo

Both Tor and BuHaber wanted this dead over the Lavos slot.

P-edit: This is t6he exact WIFOM approach UD used to defend himself.

[Almost50]

And besides Mylo got too defensive even before I voted him. My vote was on LAVOS and he started feeling the heat by the mere hint he would be next if Lavos flipped Town.

[Almost50]

A50... do you want me to scum read me lol? Do you seriously not trust NSG's STRONGEST townread as town, plus Mathdino's consistent town reads of me?

I know for a fact Mathdino didn't TR you but decided to sheep NSG on you. That's for starters.

But the issue is no longer that. My issue with you is I was voting Lavos as a first choice and you acted like you knew Lavos would flip town and then you would be next in line. THAT is what bothered me and made me switch my vote to you.

[Almost50]

WE

NEED

LAVOS

VOTES

Get them to L-1 and I'll hammer promptly

[Almost50]

VOTE: Lavos

GG.. I hope

[Almost50]

And if that does flip scum, remember: Scum will always hop off a wagon when it starts gaining momentum

[Almost50]

454: Thanks, I hate it
UNVOTE: VOTE: UglyDuck

That's EXACTLY what I've been looking for/expecting. Mainly, I wanted to know if wcg unvoted AA9 first or Dino did. Then I wanted to know her reasoning for it.

So, unvoting AA9 when she gets to L-2 (when you've been leading the wagon on her) is

always

alarming in my book. The question is whether it's scum jumping off a scum partner, or scum jumping off a town wagon that now looks like going through.

My answer is it's more likely the former, since wcg needed to simultaneously find a different vote target to justify it. Usually when scum jump off a town wagon they just unvote and say something along the lines of "I'm not too confident.." or "This wagon is building too fast.." or "I don't want to end the day just yet.." or "I don't trust X on the wagon..".. etc. etc.

So, in conclusion I'm calling Lavos and Toranaga as the scum pair here. Still not sure if there should be a 3rd, but obviously you all are confident HWS made a mistake in the OP, so I'll look for a 3rd scum if and only if we lynch these two and the game still doesn't end.

NOTE: I got what I wanted, so I won't be reading the rest of the main thread. I'll now check the neighborhoods for details.

See this, Tor?? My weak sauce does work more than you know. UD did elude me, but this one I had in my scope ever since I replaced in.

@Mylo: Still think killing the neighbors isn't sus af? I mean, I maybe crazy (there's no denying that IMHO), but WCG/Lavos was and obvious scum slot to me.

GG all.

P-edit: ROTFLMGO! Ausuka?????

[Almost50]

I did fuck all this entire game.

Lol.

*Checking* Nah! I'm still a virgin!!

[Almost50]

UD said in the scum PT he wanted to keep his neighbours alive and WCG said she didn't want to kill NSG because she was her only remaining neighbour

Well then, you made a tactical mistake I guess!

So, whose call was the NSG shot?