Open 729 - Cul de Sac!

[UglyDuck]

quack quack.
... i feel so alone...

[UglyDuck]

yeah second that. was a busy weekend and yall talk like a freeking lot. i will read up tomorrow after I have some rest under my belt.

[UglyDuck]

Okie dokie catch up done:

ArcAngel (Null) - Same boat as myself, no content yet.

BuJaber (Towny) - Talking, pushing the game with questions.

Invisibility (Towny) - Interacting, and the only opinion really has been on the "how to use the Neighbor thread" and I agree with what they said.

Mathdino (Towny) - Only played with Town!Math so far, and this feels the same as the other games. Opening with the Neighbor claim also just seems like something there would be no reason to do as Skum.

Mutant (Towny) - I find the opening bits they put in about game set up and how to use the PTs to be towny. There was one post that said something like "I don't see how it helps skum, but nor how it helps town" that I really liked. As Math pushed him through the day so far I thought they have done a good job at answering and defending so far so yeah town.

Mylo (Skummy) - Honestly just a gut feeling thing more than anything. Hasn't really had an opinion or anything so far, but has somehow posted quite a bit. Feels off, obv not super solid on that though.

NSG (Null) - Asks a lot of questions and like openly and lightly has been ignoring certain things not seeming to care. I don't know what that means, so null sauce for now.

Scioness (Towny) - Just seems helpful at this point. Answering and asking questions, not flooding with fluff, alsooooo I should mention the only other game I played with them they were my Skum Mate and this is like 100% opposite of the play style they used in that game.

StephanB (Towny) - Thoughts and responses regarding claiming of neighbors and how to use the PTs is just both from a straight up Town perspective. Answers all questions directed their way, all of which I get no paranoia from.

UnrealSeal (Skummy) - Just a few posts, but the first one is sarcastic disagreement with Math's "2v11 we are all doomed" post, but also finds Math towny for it. And then the very next post is them agreeing with Math that "Town plays shitty, and using the hoods to try and work together is a horrible idea". Not to be whatever, but it came off to me almost like "sheeping Math's ideas" if that makes sense? As Math is gonna come up with a lot of ideas, being on the bandwagon early is probably advantageous from a skum perspective (speaking from experience on that one, bc the alternative sure as shit doesn't work). Oh also, the peace out RVS post really rubbed me the wrong way.

WaveMode (Null?) - This is my idfk person right now. Like, everything they say is a disagreement with someone else - but I can't decide if that is skummy or towny. They also clearly have a strong opinion on open thread vs using the PTs - the opinions seem skummy, but the way they are presented seem like they come from a town mind. The thing that drops it into Null from Towny for me is posts like #101 - we can still work together and use the PTs, which I am fairly certain most people are aware would be the gameplan. Black and white mindsets strike me as skummy most the time, town tends to find that paranoid/grey area more often then not.

WingedCatGirl (Null) - No content other then hello post.


OK that is just summary, but I have read up and should be around

Also VOTE: UnrealSeal

[UglyDuck]

can you be more specific about what you feel is "100% opposite of the play style" scioness used in the past

Scioness was active in skum pt to an extent and non wxistent in main thread.

[UglyDuck]

she had more than twice as many posts in the main thread as the scum thread but ok

UnrealSeal (Skummy) - ...snip... Oh also, the peace out RVS post really rubbed me the wrong way.

what post are you referring to here and why did it rub you the wrong way

No she didn’t?

And the fact that anyone tries to back out or absolve themselves of the RVS stage i find skummy. I mean i hate RVS but to just openly say i am not going to do it seems anti Town.

[UglyDuck]

wait when did I say I was backing out of RVS.

i'm actually confused by this.

hard to read currently, most peoples post currently is RVS silliness and i'm bad at reading in general. call me again when I can deathtunnel someone

I like StefanB's posting though, I think he's town.

[UglyDuck]

I assume you refer to the "call me again when I can deathtunnel" which was in fact a joke my dude.

you are also ignoring the two other posts before that in which I participated in RVS

Not ignoring just highlighting this one - and as we have never played together Idk why you would expect me to know that was a joke.

[UglyDuck]

I don't get why that's so bad anyway though :3

Which is a fair opinion - i stated i find it skummy, doesn’t mean you have to findnit skummy

[UglyDuck]

Wave: if I misssd it I'm sorry but reiterating it is helpful anyway. Any reason why you feel so strongly about an Uglyduck wagon?

well the reason I think he's scum is that his catch up post is mostly game narration and large swathes of it sound manufactured. person A is towny because they're "talking", person B is towny because they're "interacting", fluff like that. as we've seen, the few possibly worthwhile points he made in his post turned out to be bullshit. he treads super light with his scumlean on mylo in a way that makes him seem pointlessly nervous ("obv not super solid on that though" - er, yes it IS obvious that your read is gut, so why make it a point to reiterate this). combine this with the fact that most of the post is townreads and it sounds like someone trying to fly under the radar and not step on people's toes. overall it was a long post dressed up to look like game analysis but was actually mostly meaningless. players like this flip scum most of the time

but to answer your question, the reason I feel *strongly* about his lynch is on policy. he spells scummy with a K

It sounds like narration bc that’s what t was. By the time i got around to the post i had to read the whole game. Just was attempting to post my opinions on the matters that took place, since i was out while it was happening.

Also i disagree with you on the too many TR thing - i feel like most skummy reads list cast far more broad suspicion.

[UglyDuck]

A) I townread your posting. I don't think you've done anything particularly valuable to town (nor would I expect this so early but just saying this to say that there isn't some particular thing you've done that is definitely townie) I just don't think your posts come from scum. Not with that attitude and frequency of posting.

B) Small point: I don't equate the boredom with finding something scummy. Sure I don't know you but it'd be rather insulting if I thought that your most effective scumhunting is a product of a random ping on something you found while bored. I like to give people more credit than that. So the options in my mind were legitime scumhunting and genuinenly considering Seal's posts are scumtells OR bored and read too much into something that isn't there.

C) it's hypocritical of you, the person who has probably called out the most number of people to elaborate more, to answer mutant's question with just a 'no'. You don't think mutant, who asked that question, (and any other person for that matter), would be interested in your additional reasons for suspecting him? Why is it fine for you to answer with one word but everyone else has to explain their votes/reads and justify them? That's a rhetorical question. Everyone should elaborate. The hypocrisy comes from you recognizing the importance of elaboration but not elaborating yourself.

this is @ Scioness, correct?

[UglyDuck]

No rest for the wicked

Bold prediction: one of arc/ugly is scum.
VOTE: Arc

Scum claim. Nice

VOTE: BuJaber

8 pages already. Give me time to go over.

lets start with this one VOTE: NSG

why?

It was RVS darling.

Okie dokie catch up done:

ArcAngel (Null) - Same boat as myself, no content yet.

BuJaber (Towny) - Talking, pushing the game with questions.

Invisibility (Towny) - Interacting, and the only opinion really has been on the "how to use the Neighbor thread" and I agree with what they said.

Mathdino (Towny) - Only played with Town!Math so far, and this feels the same as the other games. Opening with the Neighbor claim also just seems like something there would be no reason to do as Skum.

Mutant (Towny) - I find the opening bits they put in about game set up and how to use the PTs to be towny. There was one post that said something like "I don't see how it helps skum, but nor how it helps town" that I really liked. As Math pushed him through the day so far I thought they have done a good job at answering and defending so far so yeah town.

Mylo (Skummy) - Honestly just a gut feeling thing more than anything. Hasn't really had an opinion or anything so far, but has somehow posted quite a bit. Feels off, obv not super solid on that though.

NSG (Null) - Asks a lot of questions and like openly and lightly has been ignoring certain things not seeming to care. I don't know what that means, so null sauce for now.

Scioness (Towny) - Just seems helpful at this point. Answering and asking questions, not flooding with fluff, alsooooo I should mention the only other game I played with them they were my Skum Mate and this is like 100% opposite of the play style they used in that game.

StephanB (Towny) - Thoughts and responses regarding claiming of neighbors and how to use the PTs is just both from a straight up Town perspective. Answers all questions directed their way, all of which I get no paranoia from.

UnrealSeal (Skummy) - Just a few posts, but the first one is sarcastic disagreement with Math's "2v11 we are all doomed" post, but also finds Math towny for it. And then the very next post is them agreeing with Math that "Town plays shitty, and using the hoods to try and work together is a horrible idea". Not to be whatever, but it came off to me almost like "sheeping Math's ideas" if that makes sense? As Math is gonna come up with a lot of ideas, being on the bandwagon early is probably advantageous from a skum perspective (speaking from experience on that one, bc the alternative sure as shit doesn't work). Oh also, the peace out RVS post really rubbed me the wrong way.

WaveMode (Null?) - This is my idfk person right now. Like, everything they say is a disagreement with someone else - but I can't decide if that is skummy or towny. They also clearly have a strong opinion on open thread vs using the PTs - the opinions seem skummy, but the way they are presented seem like they come from a town mind. The thing that drops it into Null from Towny for me is posts like #101 - we can still work together and use the PTs, which I am fairly certain most people are aware would be the gameplan. Black and white mindsets strike me as skummy most the time, town tends to find that paranoid/grey area more often then not.

WingedCatGirl (Null) - No content other then hello post.


OK that is just summary, but I have read up and should be around

Also VOTE: UnrealSeal

I hate posts like this. How is Bujaber is towny. He hardly said anything. And since when asking questions and pushing is AI?

literally every game I have played on this site to date the skum has lurked day 1... like a lot. so I find people who are early involved to be generally towny. not necessarily AI, but as you pointed out, there isn't exactly alot to go on.. and relatively to my feel for others he lands on the towny side of things.

[UglyDuck]

(Duck + cat + arc + nsg = 4 / 13 ) I already discussed nsg and I should have probably clarified that I consider cat one of you 3 that I'm willing to vote for if that wasn't clear. That's where the 25% comes from.

The original ping was me not liking your first post or duck's post in the same page complaining about the number of pages.

Love that you think I am skum for off hand things I said/inferred from peoples early posts, but the first thing that pinged you was an offhand comment I made in one of my early posts.

[UglyDuck]

No i don't remember
I don't see how that assumption counts as a townslip

What assumption are you referring to?

[UglyDuck]

Honestly at this point winged cat kinda just seems to be newer. Not reading skum thereat this point.

But also WC - in this set up interaction is important. So probably step that up a bit

[UglyDuck]

UglyDuck(3) (L-4): wavemode, BuJaber, ArcAngel9
ArcAngel9 (2) (L-5): northsidegal, wingedcatgirl

Wavemode: definitely town, just with bad reads. It's chill tho
BuJaber: no clue, gun to head town
ArcAngel9: THE PUREST OF COUNTERWAGONS

NSG: will get nightkilled
Wingedcatgirl: i was sure she was scum in Echo Bay SEO so clearly I can't read her.

Can I get opinions on WCG?

my opinion on WCG is that they just feel new to me not skummy. I am also not always big on the LAL case thing. However, I do see (as it is mentioned above here), the validity in a VT game behind it. But also because of that the promotion of the WCG lynch based on LAL seems kind of lynch baity?

[UglyDuck]

I just spent 30 minutes trying to back and pile on my Seal case... and I was for sure forcing it. I am still not completely sold but I am
UNVOTE: UnrealSeal
for now.

[UglyDuck]

@ Math - not arguing with it. but why the TR this game?

[UglyDuck]

UNVOTE:

why?

[UglyDuck]

yeah, I am heading out now, so reasons to follow but I am gonna go with a

Vote: Mutant

after reading through.

[UglyDuck]

Duck if I vote arc are you gonna hammer her?

Currently, no chance.

[UglyDuck]

I also find that like kind of an odd question to need asking since the only people that could hammer would be :

Me - saying no
AA - obv not
WAVE - skum reads me and town reads AA
Invis - Skum reads me, no opinion I can find on AA


What is your worry? If I am skum I would obviously have some agenda regarding my answer. Given the game state the town thing here would of been to just put them at L-1. All you have accomplished is making it seem like you are willing to. And, as I am sure you are aware, as I am the counter wagon it would appear skummy for you rn to actually vote for AA and put them L-1.

VT game - town shouldn't care about appearing skummy.

[UglyDuck]

I still wanted your answer on the record, Duck. As you can see arc isn't afraid to vote her counterwagon. You voting for mutant at this time seemed odd. I wanted to throw out a weird question to see how you'd respond.

And it's funny you say that town shouldn't worry about looking scummy when you answer in such way. You seem the one worried.

I don't want the day to end yet. Pretty much anyone else that isn't you quickhammering would be scum claiming. The only unpredictable vote was yours as a townie in your situation might hammer (shouldn't but some players do), and obviously as scum you would hammer but you would either not respond to the question or lie or the more likely option: once I ask you this question you can't hammer anymore as scum because I put you in the spotlight.

First off - if skum i would of put them at L1 by now obv.
Also, where are you reading worry here?

[UglyDuck]

er, correction, putting someone at L-1 is not what scum would naturally do in your situation. scum who are voting late are usually far more inclined to avoid being on the major wagons unless deadline is looming

just saying

Yeah but the otherwagon is on me....

[UglyDuck]

@Duck- Yeah I think the L-1 vote from you would look even worse than a hammer. But whatever I won't argue with what you say you would do or won't do.

As for your question:

Duck if I vote arc are you gonna hammer her?

Currently, no chance.

This answered my question. But you felt the need to follow up with:

I also find that like kind of an odd question to need asking since the only people that could hammer would be :

Me - saying no
AA - obv not
WAVE - skum reads me and town reads AA
Invis - Skum reads me, no opinion I can find on AA


What is your worry? If I am skum I would obviously have some agenda regarding my answer. Given the game state the town thing here would of been to just put them at L-1. All you have accomplished is making it seem like you are willing to. And, as I am sure you are aware, as I am the counter wagon it would appear skummy for you rn to actually vote for AA and put them L-1.

VT game - town shouldn't care about appearing skummy.

Asking about worry feels like projecting your own on to me. And the post has you soft-accusing me ofvbeing scum which is a defensive response if feelng attacked yourself.

I don't see why it would be scummy if I put her at L-1.

The last line says nothing new. It is known to everyone and since you were talking about how scummy I would look you are implying that I am not acting as town because town shouldn't care. That meaning was implied so the last sentence is just you trying to put extra emphasis on your point which reads like someone who knows their argument is weak.

Also my question was neutral. I would ask a townread that if I felt I needed to just like I would ask a scumread. My previous posts tell you I am thinking about switching to Arc and earlier in the game I predicted only 1 scum between you. Not sure what made you think I was implying you're scum by asking.

First off... you didn't answer my question.
And then also, to clarify:
1) It would of been skummy ( imo ) if you put her at L-1 prior to asking me if I would hammer - but to be clear, I would of thought that of pretty much anyone.
2) The last sentence was to make sure the detail did not go without notice. Also, again, on the defensive bit, I do not actually have an argument with you to this point. You are inferring that I found your questions skummy (which, in fairness, I did), but I have not even come close to starting a case on you. Any soft accusations you choose to find in my words belong exclusively to you... I guess potential others reading, but not to me.
3) Not really relevant, but to make sure I pick it all apart... the thing that "made me feel like you were implying I was the 1 skum between me and AA9" would be the fact that you are... you know... on my wagon (duh).
4) And then, I think I made it pretty clear that I am not a huge fan of the AA9 wagon. If I think AA9 is town, then why would I care about you "intending" to switch to them. I mean, if it came to AA9 or me, then yeah I will pick AA9. However, at this point in time, they seem like lynch bait X Million. The meta on this site for lynching people that don't post early states is absolutely neg-ev for town (given how dumb most of the conversations are).

I look skummy because I am me and I have looked skummy in every game I have ever played. So a wagon starts. Then skum makes a counter wagon on a lurker, which the tards will eat up. One of us is lynched. Tomorrow there will be some random case on another person, then the next it will switched back to the alive member.

Also, you are town so can we stop arguing please?

[UglyDuck]

I mean, if it came to AA9 or me, then yeah I will pick AA9.

I look skummy because I am me and I have looked skummy in every game I have ever played. So a wagon starts. Then skum makes a counter wagon on a lurker, which the tards will eat up. One of us is lynched. Tomorrow there will be some random case on another person, then the next it will switched back to the alive member.

Also, you are town so can we stop arguing please?

this post is so awful lol. overly self-preservative, defending yourself with meta, and trying to stifle discussion by calling the other guy town.

new theory: both uglyduck and AA9 are scum

I am not stifling. Other maybe by not answering questions. And what.... you are trying to tell me that you would lynch your top town read instead of yourself when you are Town?
Not saying AA9 is my TTR just usinghe wording asa point

[UglyDuck]

I mean, if it came to AA9 or me, then yeah I will pick AA9.

I look skummy because I am me and I have looked skummy in every game I have ever played. So a wagon starts. Then skum makes a counter wagon on a lurker, which the tards will eat up. One of us is lynched. Tomorrow there will be some random case on another person, then the next it will switched back to the alive member.

Also, you are town so can we stop arguing please?

this post is so awful lol. overly self-preservative, defending yourself with meta, and trying to stifle discussion by calling the other guy town.

new theory: both uglyduck and AA9 are scum

I am not stifling. Other maybe by not answering questions. And what.... you are trying to tell me that you would lynch your top town read instead of yourself when you are Town?
Not saying AA9 is my TTR just usinghe wording asa point

Aw crap was that me trying to prove something or give a shit?

[UglyDuck]

If me answering the question "where are you reading worry here?" Is not answering the question then I don't know what the question was.

I think the main point of disagreement is that you don't think I would ask anyone if they would hammer and that I asked you specifically because I think you're scum. But I am clarifying to you that the fact that I am on your wagon is a coincidence. I asked you because you are on neither wagon but you made a choice to vote for mutant unlike the 3 people who hadn't placed a vote. I asked you because I've seen townies hammer in your position, so I wouldn't be able to build a case on you day 2 based solely on the hammer. I was less worried about anyone else hammering because they would look super scummy doing it. Main issue is Arc had a completely nonsensical post about me and I responded to it and I would like to hear what they have to say before lynching them. Thus I didn't want to place her on L-1 without guaging your reaction first.

It's a moot point now considering catgirl switched wagons.

Kay that’s all cool. But where were you reading worry?

[UglyDuck]

Also, you are town so can we stop arguing please?

OK that was pretty bad

How so?

[UglyDuck]

addendum to theory: if uglyduck flips scum bujaber is innocent child

What does it mean if bujaber flips skum?

[UglyDuck]

"Self meta is a towntell" lolwut nsg.

I wouldn't call it a scumtell but it definitely isn't a towntell.

I can see duck flipping town but I don't get why he thinks AA9 is town. And I don't understand what he hopes to accomplish with a mutant vote while defending himself instead of selling us mutant. The vote is an empty gesture.

Sure AA9 doesn't seem to care about getting lynched which tends to be a scum thing but also she just reads like a newer/weaker/less confident player than Duck.

Duck are you trying to piss me off to get a read or something? I answered the question in the post you quoted. Each paragraph refers to a sentence or idea you had that each show some worry. One or two alone may be natural but all together they read worried to me. Especially the fact that you had to post in the first place when you actually answered my question with "currently, no chance"

you are gonna sit there and tell me that you think you can ask a question like "if I put someone at L-1, will you hammer" and you do not expect more than a yes-or-no answer in response?

[UglyDuck]

I have no idea how you are able to put mylo/catgirl in any category that isn't null or lynchable. They're not even your neighbors. Do you have a telepathic read on them?

wait... how do you know who his neighbors are? Real question, still reading back.

[UglyDuck]

Still waiting for a reason not to lynch AA9

because uglyduck is a better lynch

why? like really... please explain to me why I am a better lynch.
Actually everyone that skum reads me should answer that. If you are town and voting for me it is only beneficial down the road if I flip.
I do no think AA9 is skum - I think this is a TvT situation.

I am horrible at making cases on D1 so I don't know what to do - The only read I have on skum is Mutant bc of how quickly the wagon went away.

[UglyDuck]

I'm policy lynching aa9 if it comes down to the wire

If she can't pay enough attention to the game to even notice who's voting who, she's not worth the effort

Fucking do something, people
UglyDuck get on scioness

can't we try to start Mutant instead? It feels like a much better spot.

[UglyDuck]

@sajj 2 days is nothing. You should consider that something around 1/4 or more of the playerbase will never login on any particular day and thus it's less time than you may expect when we are talking about a wagon being hammered.

hence my vote. i didn't think we would get enough support for my lynch on it's own. i still think it was the right move to lynch me i don't deal well with tunnels.

i admit it would be smarter of me to just hammer myself, i thought you said i was good information lynch and expected you to vote me.

doesn't really matter now.

Clarifying when you say you didn’t think there would be enough support for your lynch... is that meaning that you thought that right before the self vote when you were at L-2?

[UglyDuck]

UglyDuck on the slight chance you're town, i pose the same question to you

I am finishing ISO’s now - posts will be brief as i am traveling. But i will have constant access.

I do not like sci, AA9 wagons.

Invis came up super quick which is disconcerning but also i have a skum lean on them so idk

I have no interest in lynching wcg- i feel if they are skum it will be obvious on a future day.

Doing Awoo read now.

[UglyDuck]

Vote count?

[UglyDuck]

Yeah I think that is hammer actually....

BuJab was only one on at last VC, making it 6 more needed to lynch.
Then we had the following votes for Invis (with no unvotes anywhere on the page):

Math
Awoo
Mutant
Mylo
Scioness
NSG


The only other tag in the entire time is AA9 voting off wagon and they were never on Inviss.

Am I missing something?

[UglyDuck]

Gonna need everyone to agree to lynch scioness in lylo unless we get specific scumflips that indicate otherwise

TOP 3 poe. Wow, its 3 lurkers. AA9 is notably missing from this list.

Myloninja13
wingedcatgirl
Unreal Seal
VOTE: unreal seal

Yeah i can get on that

VOTE: UnrealSeal

[UglyDuck]

Case on Duck:
TLDR: only posts when defending himself

I can see duck flipping town but I don't get why he thinks AA9 is town. And I don't understand what he hopes to accomplish with a mutant vote while defending himself instead of selling us mutant. The vote is an empty gesture.

Duck are you trying to piss me off to get a read or something? I answered the question in the post you quoted. Each paragraph refers to a sentence or idea you had that each show some worry. One or two alone may be natural but all together they read worried to me. Especially the fact that you had to post in the first place when you actually answered my question with "currently, no chance"

And btw I think there is

only

one scum between you and duck so if you're town he isn't and vice versa. This is not because of any connection between you (though now you told us he's your neighbor maybe we'll see something) but it's a statistical bet based on things I've noticed from scum opening posts. I believe that statistically if you have 25% or more of the players starting the game with some sort of apology for lateness or their inactivity then 1 of them is scum and just piggybacking on the others' excuses.

(Duck + cat + arc + nsg = 4 / 13 ) I already discussed nsg and I should have probably clarified that I consider cat one of you 3 that I'm willing to vote for if that wasn't clear. That's where the 25% comes from.

The original ping was me not liking your first post or duck's post in the same page complaining about the number of pages.

Unless something actionable comes up regarding the neighborhood lies I am lynching one of those 4 because these posts still stands. I have recently had great success picking up on early-game tells. I'm willing to vote for AA9 specifically but the recent votes on her make me uneasy. They came quickly and without explanation.

Also the wagons did a good job. Duck and AA9 are posting more. It is now players like invis, mylon, and seal that seem to be lurking behind.
Why my vote is on Duck I've talked about with him extensively. He has spent his time defending himself without any effort to sell us on mutant. He also thinks AA9 is town but hasn't tried to appeal to her to switch votes when she was on his wagon. Her vote switch to Dino came out of nowhere. Mutant himself is an odd choice to me for a vote considering I townread them and he he barely got any heat or suspicion from anyone since the early game stuff.

Pedit 1 - that is also why I dislike both AA9 and duck. While defending themselves they are not actively trying to point us to a different wagon. They are passively saying "you guys are wrong we should lynch x" without trying to convince us. Duck especially who isn't voting someone likely to be hammered.

Am i not supposed to defend myself? Why are you tunneling me so hard?
Also if i was skum why wouldn’t i of killed you or wavemode to get rid of my wagon pushers? I mean you can ramp this one up if you want but it is just gonna get de railed bc there is no case here.

[UglyDuck]

contrary to what the broader thread may think, the issue with you is not that you defend yourself

the issue is that *when* you defend yourself, you ignore the substantive issues and poke at pointless nonsense

like, your constantly spouting "there is no case here" when i and others have made many valid points against you that you've outright ignored, is the scummiest thing about you at the moment

if the wagon is going to get derailed it will be because of your white knight dino, not for lack of a good case

Why are my questions poking at nonsense but yours are valid?
My entire wagon was brought on because 2 people disagreed with one post i made like 4 pages into the game... was t really a hell of a lot for me to elaborate on.

Please tell me what it is that you believe i have not answered.

[UglyDuck]

My entire wagon was brought on because 2 people disagreed with one post i made like 4 pages into the game

false.

you are scummy because of your entrance as i note in 228

you are scummy because you coasted hard through the tail end of day 1, pretty much doing your damndest to stay off of any wagon or commit to any opinion

people's main defense of you is meta but

YOU ARE EVEN SCUMMY ON META

as i note in 581

and your play today is still scummy in that you heavily downplay and handwave any suspicion rather than accepting that there are, in fact, many valid cases against you. written above is just mine; there's plenty that others can reference as well

im not here asking you to give me answers or show me you're town or anything like that, im here asking you to die

I guess our issue is based on bias. I really don't find any of the cases relevant. And sorry, not just gonna roll over and die. Also, I stayed off wagons because the wagons sucked.

[UglyDuck]

Yeah I have a question for uglyduck:

Are you capable of giving me some HOT content that will show that you are town?

Is hot an acronym or like do you want me to do a VCA with my pasties on or something?

[UglyDuck]

OK....

1) As I believe I have mentioned, I have been 100% off of my phone for the past 6 days. I have arrived back at home now.

2) @ WaveMode:
- Opening post: I already posted previously that it sounded like narration because it was. I was taking notes, catching up on the game, and then posted it so my stances on players would be known. I do not know why you find that skummy. I also don't know why you find the amount of TRs I had skummy. I tend to find most players townish early in games... cuz most of them are.
- End of D1 - I was not unwilling to get on "any wagon at the end of the day". I stated (multiple times... like from the beginning of the game...) that I did not like the AA9 or Sci wagons. At no point in time was I ever on board with them. Trying to spin it as otherwise is annoyingly lame. I also did push a wagon (Mutant), but no one liked it. And then, you have no way of knowing I was not going to hammer Invis.... I asked for a VC, it was given by the guy I think is skum, and then I started re reads.... during the reads I added up the count and realized it was hammered already (as I pointed out).
-META: this is the fun one. You want to go and meta dive me? Go and look at all my games - everyone like always thinks I am skum early in the game. Also, you are referencing one exact town game I have played in your post about my play style - and even in that game I lurked and was suspected early. I only started contributing like post Day 3 or something.


3) Awoo:
- I meant pasties
- I am home now, and will sit down and do iso's. If I am still alive in an hour or so I will even share my thoughts on them.

[UglyDuck]

finishing in the morning (6-7 hours from now). need to sleep. will post when I wake up and finish.

[UglyDuck]

Took longer than I thought. Here is where I am at


My

Town Pool

is currently Math, Wave, Mylo, and Scioness.

Math

bc I have no idea what he would gain from defending me so much if he were skum.

Wave

bc of the tunnel mainly - I don't think skum is likely to tunnel this hard in a game with only 2 skum. Also, the way they mediated the votes at the end of day yesterday came off as very towny.

Mylo

bc everyone says he has to be Town.

Scioness

for the same reasons as before - and now combined with the NSG death. I do not a two person skum team would of killed off NSG last night if Sci was 1/2 of the Skum team.


My

Middles

are currently AA9, BuJaber, and Lavos.

AA9

bc I had to move down from Towny. Something about the overuse of "my flip will prove you wrong" really bugs me from later parts of yesterday. And the L1 vote recently was weird. but that doesn't like negate them into skum, just dropping them here for now while I sort it out.

BuJaber

bc like literally everything they do is towny. Except for this one thing I can't get over which is like the first thing I would do as skum - make the hood map. Also, they way they just stay parked on me seems strange. I know that sounds bias, but it keeps bugging me. And the opening post from today I didn't like.

Lavos

bc I always put sub in's under Null at first.

Mutant

I was really leaning skum on yesterday, but a re read and some new stuff moved up here. The blind defense on Seal seems towny to me. With only 2 skum in the game I don't think skum would risk coming off with a conf!bias like this. Then there is the Math/me case on which order to lynch which is rubbing me the wrong way a little.



My

Skum

Pool is currently Seal and Awoo.

Seal

is mainly based on attacks of players. Starting with the entire bit with WCG earlier in the game when they have the whole "you admitted to lurking" bit. To bring that up and use it just seems like a skummy way to create an avenue to vote a player without ever having to answer to any real reason why you were there. Same-ish thing with the opening today against Math - asking why skum would keep him alive. So many damn reasons tho; 1) this question, 2) they could set up to have me and him have a correlated flip because of how hard he is defending me, and then etc. More importantly, multiple people have brought up the Lylo -Lynch scenario already... and it all just makes this feel like another fake case.

Awoo

bc a few things. First off the vote jumping/timing at the end of yesterday was super weird. I also feel like a good skum tactic to avoid associations is to spaz out on your votes, get worried about dead line, and then do something like publicly admit to being on the leading wagon of x-players. Kind of a good way to not be held accountable - just saying. And then today the Seal to me switch again I find skummy.



Whatever - long story short no one seems to want to do Seal, so I will move to Awoo.

VOTE: Awoo

In a world of self preservation I could go to AA9, but I like Awoo or Seal first.

[UglyDuck]

if that isn't opportunistic idk what is lol

i mean, this is nothing new. has uglyduck made any scumreads this game that didn't just reflect general consensus at the time. i cant think of a single instance

at least seal is going against the grain by pushing dino, who most people are saying is town

I tried to push mutant yesterday?
But yeah I think that is the only unique one.

[UglyDuck]

I'll admit that if duck is town dino looks scummier

What about town!duck makes dino look scummy?

I don't remember where but I've heard or read that site-wide meta was to not hard defend a buddy meaning some good scum players were able to easily avoid suspicion because of this.

However people started catching on of course and so I would expect the best players to be going back to not defending their buddies as much (most of the time not all).

So I think it's less likely they're buddies. Also I find is hard to see how he could be this sure of Duck's alignment. Especially so when it is based mainly on PT interactions.
Why is duck obvtowning it up in the PT but not in the game thread?

If dino is scum it makes sense he is whiteknighting more than it does that he is defending a buddy.

So I don't think I am obv!towning in one and not in the other I believe I am playing similarly in both.
Without giving away too many details (just cuz idk how my neighbor feels about me giving away details)...
I was quiet in the hood for like half the first day. I was pretty much as sure as I could be that Math was Town, and assumed he would die at night. So I offered up an idea that was supposed to kind of help him not get sheeped so much (I guess that is the best way of putting it).

The plan never really took place tbh. Pretty much all that happened was I admitted that I thought he was town and then presented my idea... his response to my idea was essentially "you are not a good enough skum player to do this as skum".

[UglyDuck]

anyone know the game he replaced out in from before?

[UglyDuck]

Hiya Neighbor.

[UglyDuck]

@Math:

VOTE: northsidegal

i'm neighbours with her, i'm around 65% confident she's scum based on the posting

Math and NSG are neighbors

Math since you asked, my other neighbor is Scioness Sajj

Who is yours

Nsg -- math -- wave -- Sajj

I'm surprised that "Town is better off having discussions in the open thread" is such a controversial opinion. I thought this was common sense? I've asked repeatedly what sort of discussions people want to have in private and nobody can give me an example of one?

Just out of the top of my head, PS: I don't envy Sajj being between us.

Nsg -- math -- wave -- Sajj -- Stefan

10 pages already. Oh lord, I am behind in this game too.

Okay, I so don't believe this neighbor hood PT's help. those PT's going to stall anyway. I am neighbour with Mylonnija and Uglyduck. Nothing much happened except Mylon claimed that he is lurking.

Mylon -- AA9 -- uglyDuck

NSG -- math -- wave -- Sajj -- Stefan

I do think that NSG is a little suspicious, but they're my other neighbour so I'm not looking to kill them just yet lol.

I think you, Math and maybe Seal are town, but that's kinda it? And those reads are pretty much only from a basic gut read/just liking what they're saying.

And this puts mylon next to nsg.

So uglyDuck -- AA9 -- Mylon -- NSG -- Math -- wave -- Sajj -- Stefan -- Buj (I reveal this earlier check my ISO) -- (other neighbor known to me)

So only 3 are missing and they're all next to each other.
I had 14 slots in my notes hence I said 4 missing earlier but it's only 3.

Also I wouldn't have revealed this but it is public knowledge so any competent scum already knows this, so town should too for those that aren't paying attention.

And to whoever asked - I care because I like solving puzzles. I thought I'd need to deduce who people's neighbors were but it became really easy when people outright stated it. I can guess how the remaining 3 fit in the picture but I'm not relying on guesswork especially since it doesn't matter.

Math if you're scum and you made me go back and find all these posts I'm never going to forgive you.

Hm so the comment recently from Awoo about counterclaimed hood spots got me thinking and going back. I found this post, which is solid, but I somehow missed it at first. This is absolutely not true.

Math's other neighbor is for only the neighbor and him to know for 100% but I am pretty much extremely certain that it is WaveMode. I am the other neighbor with Math. So it cannot be { NSG -- Math -- wave }.
My other hood is with AA9.

IDK if this is even relevant but I am reading back trying to piece it together now.

[UglyDuck]

Lavos, you get my special town sheepable award!

VOTE: Awoo

you were on Awoo already

[UglyDuck]

was about to hammer
by my count you have 3 votes

Yeah so I am bad at this an catching up but it seems to be by my count:

Tor (3): BuJaber, WaveMode, US
Awoo (1): UD
US (4): Tor, Awoo, Lavos, Mylo
Lavos (2): Alm, Mutant

No Vote (1): Scioness


Seal has been on my radar the whole day. I still want an Awoo lynch, but as that does not appear to be happening...

VOTE: UnrealSeal

***If my VC is correct, that is L-1***

[UglyDuck]

VOTE: Awoo

[UglyDuck]

eh regretted that immediately.

I want to vote awoo - and will - but quickhammer is too potential.

UNVOTE: unvote

I need to read up. 4th of July week has had me behind.

[UglyDuck]

there is literally (actually literally) no reason for town to self hammer in VT games.
so Awoo is skum.
best case scenario they knew they were only putting themselves at L-1 hoping for twilight convo.. in which case they are only *most likely* still skum.

VOTE: Awoo

[UglyDuck]

Some thoughts:

1) Almost(Math) is alive. First off, after my last encounter with Math I can tell you that I would of never let him live past night one in the first place. Assuming most people will eyeroll that - why would Skum!UD not kill Almost last night? If I were skum, then literally all of the benefits of keeping that slot alive pretty much dissipated the second Math subbed out. But for real real though - that plus the fact that skum!me would assumedly know that Alomst/Math would flip green and then people would inevitably go back to Math's reads... the best defense I can state is that the fact that Almost is alive really should just assure most people I am town.

2) Bujaber is dead. So Almost(Math) is alive and instead a Skum team that consists of me decides to kill the #1 person pushing my case from D1 (maybe tied for #1). I get that there is like a super sick WIFOM case there to be made, but I honestly have no issue pointing out that I just am not a good enough player to pull that off.

I would encourage people to think these two points through. Combine them with the idea of "UD is getting lynched tomorrow anyways, so let's get rid of the lock-town player" and I mean c'mon, no one is telling me they see that?


3) People that I have defended - NSG, Almost(Math), Scioness, Tor(AA9), Lavos(WCG). People that have defended me - Math, Lavos.

The Tor/AA9 slot as skum would never want to kill me, but they would want to push my lynch.

The Almost/Math slot as skum would never want to kill me, but they would want to push my lynch - because of the sub in meta. Let's be honest, if I flip green, and Math was still in play, he would lynch next day if there were still two skum alive. However, because of the sub, and the switch in reads, it creates a different situation.

Scioness as skum would never want to kill me, but they would want to push my lynch - because it is one more day they fly under the radar before the Tor/Math vs Scioness decision get got to. IMO with BuJaber and NSG dead it is essentially impossible that both Scioness and Tor/Math are skum.

And then there is Lavos... Lavos as skum would be like the only slot where the options were to either kill me off to push other mis-lynches, or to continue to defend me. He has done neither. This one isn't really making a potential case, this is more of a look back in case I am not around in future days. I feel the need to point it out as they have been getting some heat, and they are my essential Obv!Town slot at this point. I read back over WCG to try and get some outside insight, but everything they did just seems to be sheepishly new (same as I stated before). Then Lavos subs in and ultra defends me, and now they are on board with getting my lynch off... it is just the perfect set up for tomorrow's mis-lynch if I get lynched today. So, if I get lynched, I would invite everyone to re-read Lavos(WCG).

I still need to finish up on the rest, but this grouping seemed the most important. It left me at - NSG died. The Math slot is still alive. The Scioness slot is still alive. Tor(AA9) is still alive.

While it does not seem characteristic of Math to defend me the way he did, I do not know why he would of as skum. But then Tor subs in and switches gears. This is EXACTLY what anyone would do as skum in this slot. You lose out on the Math credibility (so you are no longer unlynchable), and then the switch in reads is both different and supported by the current overall optinon of the player base.

I quite blatantly defended both Scioness and AA9. To the extent that I refused to go for lynches on either of them when I was the next in line.

The only people I have really pushed that are still alive are Mutant and Seal.

All that, plus some in between the lines stuff, leads me to this:

It probably is not - Mutant!Seal, Scioness!Almost, Almost!Seal
Although, you will probably find skum within [Mutant, Seal, Scioness, Almost].
I am town reading Mylo and Lavos pretty hard.
I honestly do not know what to think of WaveMode.

After all of this - Toranaga my pick at this point (followed closely by Mutant). For the reasons stated above and then because of this post:

kill uglyduck tomorrow imo regardless of what it flips here

my poe is duck, lavos, mylo, mutant

I think lavos has been fine but other players are villagerier
mutant has many wolfy posts but overrall has been more villagery than the immediate POE of duck/awoo
alright
gl

This is a skum reads list of..
the person that is agreed to be lynched the next day (me)
the next most suspected player (Lavos)
the perfect middle ground (Mutant)
and the player that has been defined town until recently when a player or two started bringing up suspicions (Mylo)

Pretty much the perfect "I can vote any wagon that will happen tomorrow" list.


VOTE: Toranaga

[UglyDuck]

UD is not bad at playing scum though

I'm literally flipping back through his past games as we speak, as I have been doing since early day 1, and he makes exactly these same kinds of walls and arguments that are meant to sound logical

You tell a player like this he's the next lynch and give him 48 hours to come up with something and, well here you have it. A drawn-out speech that essentially

A. ignores that the Math/Almost50 slot has literally been his main protection this whole game
B. brushes off the fact that there is now one fewer person to vote duck today, Bujaber. If scum!someone wanted town!uglyduck to die today they would clearly leave bujaber alive

And as for A and B, it's nonsense that we're having to listen to and debate these completely WIFOM arguments in the first place! He's making them mainly because he has literally no footing to claim he has been useful to the town this game. he's done almost nothing each and every day phase. (In fact, he's been in the game since the very beginning, yet even compared to people who replaced in he has fewer posts than everybody currently alive)

C. moves me down from where he previously townread me to now null, for no discernible reason
D. attacks toranaga mainly on the basis that he replaced into the Mathdino slot (even though he didn't) and that his reads just follow consensus (even though they don't)

A. First off, false. I acknowledged Math (several times). And as it was pointed out several times, I obv mixed up the subs.

B. Also false. I acknowledged completely that with BuJaber dead there is one less person to vote me. That was my entire point about the NK. It would be one thing if like "a person or two thought I was skummy". With the essential entirety of the lot thinking I am Skum... it would make no sense for me to kill BuJaber as skum. It just makes me look more suspicious. It is not like *his one vote* would make or break my lynch. If it is gonna happen it is gonna happen. The counter point to make is that as with BJ dead (while there is one less person to vote me), we are down two more players, so it also takes one less person to lynch me. That would be pretty much the only argument for Skum!UD killing BJ, and even still given the game state I don't see it as a top option at all. (there is also like the whole wall about why the other kills make more sense. you should really read that post lol).

---middle fact: It is only WIFOM because you see it that way. From my perspective it is POV. I do not know you lot or your metas, and the early games on this forum are just literally riddled with only that. So I stay quiet. When I post early games, I summarize where I am at so if I die it can be viewed later. I do that every game, you can check. ---

C. I moved you to null because I find your recent play less towny then it previously was.

D. Of course my reads didn't follow logic as I had the damn subs mixed up.

UNVOTE:

for a moment at least I need to read those 2 slots again under correct terms.

[UglyDuck]

how do you people think about UD dodging an explanation on wave

getting tired of people mis quoting me.

This did not happen. I gave an explanation, I just didn't wall post every instance that led me to said conclusion.

[UglyDuck]

not to mention UD has ignored my post with questions but engaged wave

so did I ignore wave or engage wave?

[UglyDuck]

if 1521 wasn't clear enough 1523 was.

but keep going

you literally asked "if anyone thought it odd" that I was dodging Wavemode questions and followed it up by saying "I ignored you but engaged Wavemode".
Also I have my thread set up to read top to bottom (so if you just do the post of -lets say 1521- I have no idea what that is referencing).

[UglyDuck]

if 1521 wasn't clear enough 1523 was.

but keep going

also what does keep going mean?
people asked stuff, I answered stuff.
you said stuff, I said stuff.

Me asking where you stand is a completely valid question.

[UglyDuck]

i meant your explanation on your read on wave.

keep going means you said you had to do some meta dive and come back to us.

sorry then. "keep going" is a sarcastic statement from my PoV.

If I ask you why you think everything I say is skummy will I get an answer?

[UglyDuck]

Some thoughts:

1) Almost(Math) is alive. First off, after my last encounter with Math I can tell you that I would of never let him live past night one in the first place. Assuming most people will eyeroll that - why would Skum!UD not kill Almost last night? If I were skum, then literally all of the benefits of keeping that slot alive pretty much dissipated the second Math subbed out.

in all of this wifom:
1st sentence: scum!UD would kill math N1
2nd and 3rd: why wouldn't scum UD kill A50 now, since any benefits from keeping Math alive disappeared when Math subbed out.
So apparently they were/are some benefits for scum UD to keep math/a50 alive, huh?

But for real real though - that plus the fact that skum!me would assumedly know that Alomst/Math would flip green and then people would inevitably go back to Math's reads... the best defense I can state is that the fact that Almost is alive really should just assure most people I am town.

Math started defending you early D1. A50 also does defends you now.
Your best defense is a narrative about how scumUD would kill people that townread and defend him.

2) Bujaber is dead. So Almost(Math) is alive and instead a Skum team that consists of me decides to kill the #1 person pushing my case from D1 (maybe tied for #1). I get that there is like a super sick WIFOM case there to be made, but I honestly have no issue pointing out that I just am not a good enough player to pull that off.

What are you not good enough to do? Kill the most town read person that also suspects you? How can this be above anybody's capability?

point 3 has too many mistakes to mention but it also just another narrative.

it's day 3, you still don't interact with people, you don't post reads, you only appear in the game summary narratives and vote. you go straight to the defense that is heavily based on 'i wouldn't do that as scum'. there is no addressing points that people have said earlier about you, there is no asking why people scum read you.
you didn't scumhunt this game at all, your explanation to not town reading wave anymore was 'he is less towny' you still didn't explain why nor did you said anything before about why wave isn't town read of your before.

1) I don't get it? All the answers are there. I made reference to the last game I played with Math where I kept him alive to try and WIFOM the situation - it brutally murdered us in an almost perfect town victory. Take away from this is in future games (let alone games where he is with me in an isolated atmosphere like this, where it would be even more stupid based on how it went the first round). Your next point is confusing I don't really know what answer you are looking for. My point was that killing the slot after the sub as skum in my position would of been the play (at least to me). I get how you think it is all WIFOM, but fact of the matter is the entire game is WIFOM, you are just tunneling and isolating out my defenses. Which is fine - but if you want answers try to prepare yourself for the fact that this is how I answer questions.

2) Skum!UD absolutely would kill off players that town read me. Like no doubt at all. Maybe not every day, but early game it would be the best strategy to ensure end game. IMO at least.

3) My point is it is so obvious, I don't think anyone as skum would do it in my slot.

4) I post lots of reads you just don't like them.
I find it hard to skum hunt early in games.
I absolutely have been addressing points people have made about me (though you saying this makes me think you have something you would like me to address) (I am getting to the other 3 reads promised, in case
that is it).
I have not asked people why they skum read me very much because they have made it fairly clear.

[UglyDuck]

wish I had more time to commit to this game. Was a fun one (Thanks HWS for hosting!)

Good game town, you all played excellently!

[UglyDuck]

UD said in the scum PT he wanted to keep his neighbours alive and WCG said she didn't want to kill NSG because she was her only remaining neighbour

Well then, you made a tactical mistake I guess!

So, whose call was the NSG shot?

UD.

yeah this idea pretty much got shot in the leg bc math had to move houses

[UglyDuck]

I would love to play this set up but as a randomized Hood (i.e. each night you shuffle neighbors or something like that). I do not have the ability to host a game so I just want to throw the idea out there.

[UglyDuck]

also IDK if this site does mvp or not but if they do it should go to BuJ (very closely followed by Wave).