Mini 2020: Destiny III: Cosmic Mafia [終わり]

[AnonymousGhost]

Apples to orange Nacho. Comparing your scum meta to their scum meta is irrelevant.

[Nachomamma8]

Apples to orange Nacho. Comparing your scum meta to their scum meta is irrelevant.

my point is that no one would. it's a ridiculously broken scum power that is only ridiculously strong when people don't know about it. so telling people about it is a move that basically never comes from scum. do you see why?

[Dunnstral]

Okay, I didn't realize Pixie claimed that, it's whatever then

Nacho, what is your read on camntsuki?

[Dunnstral]

I agree that Pixie doesn't need to claim that as scum

[Nachomamma8]

As of now, I have everyone else in the process of elimination pile.

the only read i'm unsure about in that list is Dunnstral and even then I think I'm pretty comfortable slating him in as town.
what do you think about DGB?

[kuribo]

Pixie - One of my strongest town reads at this point. Anyone who thinks she could be my partner after yesterday cannot be thinking clearly. I apparently only survived because she moved my vote, so if she was my partner, don't you think I'd have known about it?

that actually makes it more convincing that she's your partner, knowing that she moved Dunn's vote to save you


remember, guys, mollie's reasoning for being mad at the Feysal lynch after pushing the wagon earlier was "Whoops forgot I said that."

[Dunnstral]

But he's posted in those 24 hours and his only "redemption" was "Hay Guys I'm gonna die but I'm okay with that and also I'm a reverse miller"

I know you've seen townies crumple like a shitty card table before. My only point is that it'd be really super wonderful if we could give him more than one chance to redeem himself, especially since the horrible awful thing he did yesterday was not post a lot after taking a super long break from mafia.

So who are you proposing gets day vigged instead, Nacho?

[kuribo]

But he's posted in those 24 hours and his only "redemption" was "Hay Guys I'm gonna die but I'm okay with that and also I'm a reverse miller"

I know you've seen townies crumple like a shitty card table before. My only point is that it'd be really super wonderful if we could give him more than one chance to redeem himself, especially since the horrible awful thing he did yesterday was not post a lot after taking a super long break from mafia.

If I'm named the Leo King (unless mollie saves her partner again), he's got plenty of time to redeem himself, he'll just have to do it with a literal gun to his head. Deal?

[AnonymousGhost]

I see it, but it still doesn't make me hate their ability any less, considering we

get no fucking warning

when they do it.

[Nachomamma8]

one of {muffin, cupcake, nosferatu}

[Nachomamma8]

that actually makes it more convincing that she's your partner, knowing that she moved Dunn's vote to save youremember, guys, mollie's reasoning for being mad at the Feysal lynch after pushing the wagon earlier was "Whoops forgot I said that."

except mollie's play looks extremely town
and mollie claiming her ability if scum doesn't make sense

i also would imagine that if mollie and feysal were partners then she'd get anyone but feysal to hammer kokichi
but that's just me

[AnonymousGhost]

one of {muffin, cupcake, nosferatu}

Can to explain why you think these people should be targeted with the Day Vig?

[Nachomamma8]

I see it, but it still doesn't make me hate their ability any less, considering we

get no fucking warning

when they do it.

you hate their ability because it's so incredibly good for scum, correct? we don't get any warning at all when they do it, and there's no way to trace it back to them. why would they claim it if they were scum?

[AnonymousGhost]

mollie claiming her ability if scum doesn't make sense

And me claiming that you and Staeg are fake claiming - and thereby wanting to lynch either of you yesterday - Masons makes no sense from a scum standpoint, but people still think I'm scum. So, what's your point?

The standard scum tells and scum behavior are just that. Standards. Outliers exist for a reason.

[Nachomamma8]

one of {muffin, cupcake, nosferatu}

Can to explain why you think these people should be targeted with the Day Vig?

i'll explain my reads in full before i leave the computer unless i'm eaten by a pack of wild gorillas or something, but i'd like to finish reading before doing so.

[Nachomamma8]

mollie claiming her ability if scum doesn't make sense

And me claiming that you and Staeg are fake claiming - and thereby wanting to lynch either of you yesterday - Masons makes no sense from a scum standpoint, but people still think I'm scum. So, what's your point?

The standard scum tells and scum behavior are just that. Standards. Outliers exist for a reason.

My point is that there's a very clear advantage to mollie not claiming her role, and the advantage doesn't come close to the potential towncred from claiming it.

I also don't understand the counterpoint here - I think that your push on Staeg and I looks blindingly town and that people who believe differently are wrong. You disagree with that?

[camntsuki]

PErsonally, we see this day as being quite straight forward.

Kuribo and DGB are still town in our eyes, feysal is fairly obvscum, dunnstral still needs to die for abject stupidity, and muffins can maybe go in the townpile.

Mommy's almost back from her trip to go buy cigs so we don't really need to read anymore hooray~

what made you move muffina to town?

~*~REASONS~*~

[zMuffinMan]

@nacho,

i think the claim was a last ditch 'why would scum do that?' effort tbh. not something i think i'd do and arguably it would be smarter for scum-feysal to claim something that might get counter-claims on the table or something, but i think he just went with honestly claiming his role here and seeing if it would work

the 'seen as their own alignment' is the part i think is the most interesting. particularly because it's redundant if he's town (makes perfect sense if he's scum in a multiball game though, if the role is, say, designed to give a scum cop on the other team a fighting chance). it may have been designed partially as a red herring anyway (i.e. there very well may be no scum cop) to give scum something more claimable (though im guessing it wasn't designed to be claimed as is) but it's not a town role

also should clarify, it's not just the role i think is more likely scum than town, it's the way he used it. put yourself in town-feysal's shoes and tell me why you send an anonymous message with nothing but "multiball" in it (he didn't claim any limitations on the word limit or anything so he coulda gone like "HI, IT'S FEYSAL, I HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE IT'S MULTIBALL ALSO HERE ARE MY READS ETC ETC"). i'd also argue that outright giving information that you have reason to believe it's multiball is a pretty useful thing to have on the table early d1, because that's how i'd play the role if i honestly had it as a town role (but i don't think this is a particularly strong point because i could see others not agreeing with me about this)

as far as his actual play goes, i don't get the feeling he's actually trying to scum hunt here. good example of this would be the way his dunnstral read has played out over the course of the game but his other reads haven't been great either

what do you think he's done that's town outside of the claim?

[AnonymousGhost]

Nacho

I see your point, but I ultimately disagree.

The counterpoint is basically acting as an example of how standard scum behavior/tells shouldn't be wholly applied to every person. There's a reason why arguments like "too scummy to be scum" exist. Like I told Feysal, experienced scum know these tells; they can, and possibly will fly in the face of them in order to avoid looking like scum, thus rendering these standard scum tells/behavior models useless.

[Nachomamma8]

i think the claim was a last ditch 'why would scum do that?' effort tbh.

I said this started quickly cause I have no fucking idea what my role is.

I'm intrigued by this. I also find it believable, since I am also confused. I have some wild ideas about the setup, but I think it is too early to speculate.

This is Feysal's third post. This takes away the possibility of claiming a basic role (the type that gets good counterclaims on the table) pretty much immediately, and the "I have some wild ideas about the setup" is consistent with the multiball theory he offers later.

Oh, and Staeg... I would not be so quick to defend Fate in this case. For what it is worth, I find Kokichi's claim believable. It would not be the strangest role in this game, not even close.

You have no idea.

This is from Feysal's "I've been lynched" post. If he's scum here, he'd be banking that his fake hammered post would be getting him towncred and would still be pretending and again he crumbs having a super oddball role.

I don't think that this makes sense at all as a preplanned claim from scum, and I don't think it makes sense to think that it wasn't preplanned when he's been crumbing since early in the game.

[MariaR]

the best part of being dead is I don't have to read any of this

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho

I see your point, but I ultimately disagree.

The counterpoint is basically acting as an example of how standard scum behavior/tells shouldn't be wholly applied to every person. There's a reason why arguments like "too scummy to be scum" exist. Like I told Feysal, experienced scum know these tells; they can, and possibly will fly in the face of them in order to avoid looking like scum, thus rendering these standard scum tells/behavior models useless.

If your counterpoint is "you could be wrong because your thinking is too standard", then OK - every point I make I'm usually pretty aware that I can be horribly wrong, but just because I can be wrong doesn't mean that I am wrong.

If you're saying that I don't know what I'm talking about wrt mollie as an individual or that I'm projecting myself on her or that I'm treating her as a standard scum player when she's a nonstandard one, then you're prejudging me - I'm familiar with her play as both alignments and am not making any of those mistakes.

[kuribo]

the best part of being dead is I don't have to read any of this

i've never envied another player so much

[AnonymousGhost]

I'm saying the first point, not the second.

Join dates are a bad way to determine how experienced someone is.

[Feysal]

I've campaigned from the start of the day on the platform of putting a bullet between his eyes, and again he just gives up?

Is this a pro-town attitude?

Just because I accept my impending death does not mean I'm giving up.

I'm not an idiot, I know perfectly well what my last post yesterday looks like. I know I'm bound to die for that, and I see no point in arguing with you over it after I tried to mediate between you and Dunnstral yesterday to no avail. Even if I did survive today, I would only become lynchbait. Instead I chose to ignore my survival and do what I could in the time I had left.

Feysal said NOTHING about this. He voted in secret

That was not me. That was Pixie. She explained it in post 1582.

And for the record, I knew nothing of this until later. Had I known, there is no way in hell I would have made a final post like that.