NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Taly]

I'm trying to see if the potential groupscum on the

Elbirn

wagon that transitioned to the

profii

wagon did it out of bussing or survival.

[Taly]

Or out of genuine scumhunting and gamesolving

[Taly]

X_X Sorry

xyzzy

, I'll be aware of using the correct pronoun now

[Taly]

UNVOTE:



I'll vote tomorrow

[Taly]

Am I wrong with my scumreads and scum suspects right now?

This questions has finally hit me. Will wallpost later.

[Taly]

I feel like I'm hitting and missing here, but I'm not sure.

[Taly]

Inferno

, when you have time from border-sheeping my

Elbirn

-case and my

Profii

-"case", can you actually finish the

MOI/Andrius

summary?

[Taly]

Could you make concise bullets that don't have to involve post links or quotes?

[Taly]

Rask

, do you think

Sky

could be town?

[Taly]

I fully agree though that people shouldn't be reading you only by Dave.

I'll read the case on Elbirn again

Sky wagon is good wagon... Sorry gal but I just really scumread you here. But did she really have a wagon?

Also this wasn't what I was entirely looking for with my original question

What do you think about the votes so far D2?

Taly... Part of your reasoning for Elbscum is not following up on suspicions and not voting there. Tbh that's my play style... Though I always get shit for it so idk if I can blame the people on the wagon.

That's not a very effective approach here...

Why is

Sky

a better wagon and why isn't your vote on that? You seem to have a plan of what is best for your perspective in the game, but you're not expanding on that. 2164

This game is boring until massclaim or such time as there's more info to sort out the PR claims

Tell me about a

profii

lynch/scum? I know I've neglected an ISO there, and will get to that, but I'm feeling a little demotivated and half the people I actually want to engage with right now haven't posted today.

[Taly]

TW

give me your thoughts on

profii

too

[Taly]

if you're willing

[Taly]

Then provide substance.

[Taly]

We should lynch profii.

Eh..

VOTE: Profii

I guess now people will have to either come up with a case for why not to, or will seesaw defend by renewing the wagon on my slot... either way the game should have some new content.

How much of the game have you read prior to this vote?

[Taly]

In retrospect, my scumread on

Sky

is fading a little... I can look at some of her posting from a newer town perspective, but I'm solid on her at the moment.

I want

profii

to actually post and not avoid the wagon on him.

[Taly]

but I'm

not

solid on her at the moment

~

I looked at

Inferno's

case and skimmed through

Andrius'

ISO, I can see some of his points, I don't know about the

MOI

association much, it seems like a one-sided interaction.

I don't get

Andrius'

reads in this game, that's my biggest thing with him. He didn't even have a functional read on

Dram

based off the game it sounded, and I don't know where his thoughts are for scum now. He's put up a lot of spec and stated little scumreads, as if he's waiting for something. I still get townvibes from him and think he's town off claims, but it's hard to gauge his reads a little.

I'm also slightly less confident in my read on

Inferno

, I still get a tone-vibe of town, and I honestly fail to see a solid scum motive behind his posts, but I haven't seen a lot of major content so far D2 aside from the

Andrius

case he posted above.

But then again, I can say the same for several players.

I'm also side-eyeing anybody who continues to say

"TW is SK"

and

"Chick should eat rope soon"

[Taly]

FUCK, is

Profii

L-1?

[Taly]

[L-4] Profii - Raskolnikov, the worst, Inferno390, Skygazer

Chick, Brass, and Almost

have voted

Profii

since this.

[Taly]

please announce L1 when it happens

[Taly]

Do you want us to always say where we are in relation to the lynch? I mean, I voted profii like 3 days ago or something, don't put it on me to call out that he's L-1. This is solely a you and Almost50 issue in my view.

Was I being too specific?

ANYONE could call L-1 out, what's the point of this post if you're just going to state

"don't look at me, talk to

Almost

"

?

Obviously, I know your vote wasn't to L-1, and my post wasn't directed at one person.

L-1 is a defining factor of the gamestate, so it SHOULD be stated, and considering that I was the only person to point this out so far makes me think other people didn't know about it.

Nothing. I only read posts from the point I replaced in forward (aside from the flips that is)

Then why the

profii

vote exactly? And do you have any reads at the moment?

Taly. I am scumreading Sky because of a) day 1, b) I feel her posts are a lot of asking but few actual reads.

TW why so hesitant about claiming modifier/no modifier at all if it can help sort you? I feel it can.

Andy again - might have missed the answer - how are you clearing Chick?

Fwiw if there's scum in andy/chick I'm saying Chick 90% of the time. Don't think both are or Andy wouldn't be clearing chick.

Also unsure of xyzzy.

pedit: doubt Scumferno would be bussing scumandy or scum!moi

Can you elabroate on

Sky

-D1?

UNVOTE:

Why the unvote here?

[Taly]

Absolutely50

, here's the recap on claims:

Chick

is vengeful.

TW

is an SK or Vig, who claimed to have shot

Dram

, this is true because of no CC at all.

Hit

has an investigative role that confirmed

TW

shot someone last night.

MOI

is a fruit vendor that gave their fruit to

Andrius

.

Ausuka

is a fruit vendor that gave their fruit to

Rask

.

Brass

is a BP, and it is possible that he was shot by Mafia last night.

Inferno

is a Visitor.

Andrius

has claimed an investigative role too, I think.

Dram

being a Mafia RB, alongside the reality of an SK, WITH a Vengeful in this game, means that both Town and Scum have some next-level PRs. So this game is as entertaining and as fucked up as most Normals are allowed.

We are not setup specc'ing anymore right now. I, and others believe that our lynchpool/scumpool is too fragile and large to lynch

Chickadee

, some say is potential scum, a shot on another scum.

TW

, whether he's Vig or SK, is not a lynch priority right now, and there are both arguments to say he's 3p or Town, but it's mechanically impossible he's groupscum.

[Taly]

Flub

was the D1 mislynch

Dram

was wagoned

((By Me, Inferno, Hit, TW))

, but a lot of people weren't fond of this even prior to his claim.

I've made cases for your slot

((Absolutely50))

being scum due to

Elbirn's

D1 gameplay and his reaction to the D1 wagons, in assocative to

Sky

. 1725 tp 1727 While that scumread has faded, alongside the scumread on

Sky

to a small extent, I'm willing to see your play in this game separate from

Elbirn

.

Read the past few pages in

profii's

response to me igniting the

Elbirn

wagon, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

[Taly]

Absolutely50

, here's the recap on claims:

Chick

is vengeful.

TW

is an SK or Vig, who claimed to have shot

Dram

, this is true because of no CC at all.

Hit

has an investigative role that confirmed

TW

shot someone last night.

MOI

is a fruit vendor that gave their fruit to

Andrius

.

Ausuka

is a fruit vendor that gave their fruit to

Rask

.

Brass

is a BP, and it is possible that he was shot by Mafia last night.

Inferno

is a Visitor.

Andrius

has claimed an investigative role too, I think.

Dram

being a Mafia RB, alongside the reality of an SK, WITH a Vengeful in this game, means that both Town and Scum have some next-level PRs. So this game is as entertaining and as fucked up as most Normals are allowed.

We are not setup specc'ing anymore right now. I, and others believe that our lynchpool/scumpool is too fragile and large to lynch

Chickadee

, some say is potential scum, a shot on another scum.

TW

, whether he's Vig or SK, is not a lynch priority right now, and there are both arguments to say he's 3p or Town, but it's mechanically impossible he's groupscum.

Quoted for everyone.

[Taly]

MOI

is one of, maybe 3 people right now, that is actually leveling with me,

Inferno

So no, I don't see your point there.

I will respond to you in depth

MOI

, and revise my thoughts on

Sky

and impression of

Almost

so far, very likely tomorrow because I've been busy on/off the past 2-3 days.

[Taly]

OK but seriously though imma be cross if I gotta lasso this game.

I feel like I've already taken this role whenever I'm posting.

I don't have time for a huge elabroate post, but I'm going to look into

profii

, evaluate the reasons behind my

Sky

scumread, and reply to the major posts directed toward me.

Right now, the lack of several people posting has diminished the strength of both townreads and scumreads I have, and I'm going to be bothered if the lower D2 content people are mostly, if not all, town.

{HeWhoSwims, profii, xyzzy}

Xyzzy

, I apologize again for not using the correct pronouns, and I will work to correct myself in the future. But can you please do something aside from stating the obvious?

I kind of feel like

TW

has been sitting around as well.

Chick

could also be apart of the low-content group, but there's reason to suggest she's town over the others.

I kind of feel like town has been bickering the past few days in thread. No strong or compelling arguments have been made for votes lately.

I'd also note that most people don't seem to agree with reads or cases in this thread, which isn't helpful for cohesion.

[Taly]

Can someone ask me questions? That usually helps get me more involved with the game.

[Taly]

Profii or xyzzy?

Depends on both of their next posts.

xyzzy

could be scum playing null, but town that's really not invested in the game.

profii

... I'm skimming his ISO and seeing him in a town perspective D1, I mostly take issue with his posts this dayphase. His evasiveness, his inconsistent read progression, followed by him being selective with his pushes feels not what I'd expect town him to be, but it's not a strong meta-ish read.

Where do you stand on the Vig/SK thing wrt TW?

I don't get people's fascination with this subject right now.

TW

is self-sorting at the moment.

I'm not impressed with his posting, but I can say that for several people right now.

What do you think of

Lucca

Ausuka?

I forgot she was playing this game.

[Taly]

Thoughts on

Sky

?

[Taly]

Also I don't understand

Almost's

VT claim at all.

It doesn't seem like it's out of his town-range, but him wanting the NK, especially in light of this, seems borderline impossible to happen.

I don't know what he expects.

[Taly]

Concise reasons for my individual scumread on

Sky

, that has faded, but not been removed.

1)

D1, her scumreads were essentially whoever was the most lynchable or wagoned person.

2)

She didn't respond to the scumreads on her directly, she either brought up other people that could've been scum, or said the scumreads on her weren't warranted. She did this mostly D1, but also D2 when I finished the original group ISO. Most notable with her

Hit

vote/push following the vote onto

Flubb

EoD.

3)

Her vote doesn't always reflect the people she's pushing, I noted this in a D1 post around the 700 mark in my group ISO.

4)

Biggest reason is that there's potentially a strong associative to

Dram

.

981 The only reason Sky has for justifying her votes and scumreads is something being "flaily" like it's supposed to be this elabroate case when in reality she's not doing anything to ratify her thoughts.
983 Sky FINALLY expands on what "flaily" means to her, but then also talks about it being odd that Hit is pushing her and Dram, and while it IS true technically...
...Why is Sky concerned about Hit's read on Dram and not Hit's read on the MANY other people he's suspected, including her other townreads like Brass and etc.

I can see THIS post being a Sky-Dram SvS associative.

5)

A lot of her posts today don't have a lot of strong direction in reads. Her vote to

Elbirn

immediately after my case on him and suspicion of her feels like she's diverting suspicion. She also has a relatively sizable pool of scumreads or suspects in the game but she doesn't individually push them.

I can see her posts coming from a noob-town perspective, but this post is mostly for

MOI

.

[Taly]

I think if profii was being a VI then it would've manifested itself on day one, but his day one play was pretty decent looking and he took a huge scummy turn on day two

That actually makes sense...

What are your thoughts on

profii

as a whole?

[Taly]

I'm forgetting why I'm townreading

Inferno

and my scumread on

Sky

is weakening by the moment.

[Taly]

I honestly would be OK with a flip right about now, if that'll reduce the rising apathy, at least that I have.

I just want

profii

to finally post.

[Taly]

(A50, Profi, Sky, Xyzzy, HeWho)

I honestly have no problems with this lynchpool. PoE, gameplay, claims, and most anything I can think of would point to at least one of these people flipping scum.

They can't all be scum though, numerically.

And with 3-4 of them being low-content, it's hard to judge motivation.

I'm not invested in a

Sky

lynch right now because of this. I had townish reads on

HWS, profii, and xyzzy

at the start of this dayphase, but I have problems with

profii's

posting,

xyzzy

has been wallpaper, and

HWS

is the bridge between these two in terms of how I view in play.

I want to see

Almost

post more content before I assess him indvidiually.

I'm feeling very non-committal with reads I feel should be stronger right now :/

[Taly]

I've played 2 games with town Profii and started scumreading him day 2 both times I think...

I don't scumread him now tbh but I should reread

Can you be anymore vague with your reads and avoidant with the people you say you want to lynch?

I'm not saying this to be a dick, but this is why you've fallen back to nulltown, if that.

@TW

If you shoot someone unacceptable we'll lynch you. : ]

[Taly]

I'd rather see a

HeWhoSwims

flip over

xyzzy

at the moment.

I really dislike that no major wagon has had resistance this dayphase, and I don't trust that this is all because of scum.

[Taly]

Would scum-

xyzzy

vote

Inferno

when nobody was going to push that?

I get that ending on

Hit

EoD1 does not look good, but both

Hit

and

Flub

had town/scum on them.

I doubt there would be a buss on

Dram

at all.

The

Elbirn

counterwagon on

xyzzy

could've been S-S, but I'm not entertaining that without a flip.

A50

hasn't done much to make me think he's town.

But...

Currently Unexplained Readslist - Not in Order of Strength

Town

Taly
MOI
Ausuka
Brass
Gamma
Inferno
Chickadee
Rask

???

TW

Scum

Sky
xyzzy
profii
HWS
A50

This doesn't look right.

Can people explain their townreads on

HeWhoSwims and profii

? Because none of the present reason to think they are is convincing.

Profii

never changed his vote from

Flubb

, which definitely had scum and town on the wagon especially EoD1.

By D2 posting,

Sky

is the only pro-town person in this group.

If you shoot someone unacceptable we'll lynch you. : ]

I ain't gonna lynch the duck this game.

Why?

[Taly]

Town
Taly
MOI
Ausuka
Brass
Gamma
Inferno
Chickadee
Rask
Andrius

[Taly]

I'd rather see a

HeWhoSwims

flip over

xyzzy

at the moment.

I really dislike that no major wagon has had resistance this dayphase, and I don't trust that this is all because of scum.

sorry if I missed this in your ISO but why are you scumreading HWS? i believe you thought he was town early d2.

my gut says profii is town maybe? but i don't really know

I don't feel strongly on

HWS

at the moment, and I did townread him D2, but:

He's not making any cases for the 3 people he wants to lynch

Sky/Chick/TW

2164

He's expressing scumreads that are both easy to hop on and want to lynch due to WIFOM.

(TW's self-sorting, Chick feels lynchbaity and I don't see the point of a venge without a short kill-pool, and his scumread on Sky is basically her asking questions and not providing reads, which I both think would apply to him now, and not apply to Sky this dayphase.)

He's posted very little this dayphase and in contribution.

(Only 19 posts, he was more active in D1, which was much less active this dayphase comparatively)

He's someone that was on the

Hit

wagon and one of the last people to jump on it near EoD1.

He's brushed off the

Brass

push on him.

(Where is any response to Brass this dayphase about a vote in his ISO?)

I don't understand how agreeing with the two strongest opinions is scummy??? like I don't really feel like these two positions are in direct opposition, we don't have the threshold of information where finding both of them scummy is a bad thing

It's not scummy per se - just lazy and easy. I used to do this as scum in my first scum games, I feel... And it just adds onto the rest

If this is the one gaining traction then

VOTE: Dramonic

L-4 if the votecount higher up this page is accurate

That claim seems too well thought out to be fake.

If it ain't dram then I want to go back to Gazer...

But there's no wagon there so

VOTE: HitAlt

L-2

These 3 posts were side-by-side in his ISO.

His votes and reasonings aren't committal at the EoD1, as he's voting based on where wagons are and what has the most traction. This could be town and excusable, but it doesn't look great or helpful as he had about 5 other people in his lynchpool 1012, and L-3'ed

Hit

850 without much in depth reasoning for his scumread there.

[Taly]

Also, any team with

xyzzy-profii

makes little sense here.

VOTE: Xyzzy

Flashwagon this. Xyzzy has naught but fluffposting and walls of "I like this post" with no real substance or analysis and actually clicking through their wall of post links only furthers the disappointment.

Scum is lurking through this game and letting us run up lynch baity people for playing poorly but not necessarily scummy. Rally to me boys and girls and xirs, the dark times end now

Ok
VOTE: xyzzy

But Elbirn, thoughts on xyzzy's latest post? It was a good one...at least what of it I skimmed. Gonna be honest, I am getting very sleepy at the moment.

Its a good a post but I’ll vote there? Explain that please

Personally, I disagree, as per my initial comment on xyzzy following the Rask wagon analysis I feel like xyzzy is just parroting a lot of popular opinion and not really asserting anything new

I see Rask has left flubber to go xyzzy but I’m not sure which wagon is winning between xyzzy and dram & we need to hone in on a lynch _soon_

Xyzzy has the momentum right now so

VOTE: xyzzy

However if the VC appears and Dram is ahead (or people go there), I’m with you. Also, if we go back to flubber I’m in.

This was prior to

profii

mentally resolving the

Dram

claim and going back to

Flubb

in 1142

Literally, if you guys looked into

profii's

ISO, it is LITTERED with statements that he's going to lynch or vote

Dram

, but doesn't do it.

@MoI - I believe I was mistaken with that assertion - apparently Dramonic moved so I would say perhaps he is bussing Flubber and using the HitAlt wagon to get off the bus.

So I’d be ok with a dram lynch today - probably helps us deal with flubber and those wagoneers

*Note

that he's giving rationale for

Flub

scum in conjunction with

Dram

even though

Dram

was much earlier and unresolved scumread. 723

I like the flubber wagon
I said earlier I'd join a dramonic wagon.
Sky fits in my criteria of Rask voters so I could vote there too.

I'm easy either way but whilst we have 6 on Flubber I'll stick there, if it dies off and a wagon on those 2 forms then I'll join.

Again, a reason I scumread and lynched him - where he flipped scum - in

Open 712

was because he had plenty of opportunity and reasons to push others but kept on with pushes that were most popular.

We have a competing wagon in flubs,

HA could be a good PR

, TW might just be bad at scum.
Those are three valid reasons (albeit the third might not be I dont know the guy besides site chat)

If you ever thought I was a town-PR, you should never say something like this out loud..!
VOTE: dramonic - my mind is actually made at this point I think.

But if scum!dramonic thinks that, he can just PT his buddies... why is that of all things AI and not just bad town

*Note

....
why is

profii

justifying that

Dram

could be bad town to

Hit's

scumread reasons BY trying to project

Dram's

thoughts as scum?

I am probably going to vote Dram but I prefer flubber so just waiting for the VC to see if it’s worth sticking or will dram be the way we are going

Someone said plenty of time but I disagree as it’s hard to get everyone going in a specific direction quickly, particularly at weekend so just making my intentions known for now

He's basically saying the same thing he has been for 200+ posts.

[Taly]

There's a better associative to

Profii-A50

than

Xyzzy-A50

imo

at least, it's very unlikely for

Profii-Xyzzy

team.

I don't see

Xyzzy-Sky

either.

xyzzy

feels least likely scum when evaluating the big picture of my reads.

[Taly]

I think xyzxyz might be scum he commented on hit and flub not dram. But he had opportunities to like in 1086 (at the end where he responded to taly)

honestly I just really never had very strong opinions about anything dramonic posted. I know that sounds like a fake copout but it's true

In comparison, this is the only associative-based post we can tie to

Dram-xyzzy

Which could be scum indicative, but that'd mean my currently stronger

profii

scumread is very likely wrong.

[Taly]

We could continue discussion for 8 days

But after questions, ISO skims, and careful thought...

I still feel like I won't lynch/vote outside of

A50/profii

today, unless something drastic happens, but none of my scum suspects are doing anything remarkable to change that in either direction.

HWS

is a potential lynch I'd like to see, if he keeps pinging me.

Sky

... idfk, but she's towny right now?

xyzzy

doesn't make sense as scum to me.

[Taly]

I'm wanting him to post more but the more he posts, the more I'm feeling that he's scum thus far and I was originally correct.

To be honest, part of me is afraid that I'm confbiased, which is why I haven't hardpushed him yet and not before trying to force him to spew content.

[Taly]

^^About

A50

that is

[Taly]

-_-*

I never assumed that

profii

is scum, I'm saying there's a stronger argument to suggest he is when I'm skimming through his ISO and looking at my other scumreads. I'm trying to narrow my thoughts down.

And I'm stating that

Chick

feels like an easy person to push a lynch on at the moment and I was responding to

HWS'

thought on thinking about lynching her.

I also townread

Chick

.

Did you read all of my posts

Andrius

?

Why is

HWS

less likely scum than

xyzzy

?

[Taly]

To relieve tension in thread

[Taly]

[Taly]

....Please do not ask to be lynched to prove you're town....

Here's a concise version of my scumread over you Profii that I elaborated on in some of my falls

1)

You kept your vote on

Flub

up a lot in D1, and kept saying you'd vote and lynch

Dram

specifically, but you didn't throw a vote that way and your vote on

xyzzy

was opportunistic because a portion of the vote there was because of it being a wagon with momentum. Why didn't you deeply evaluate

Dram

when he was worthy of a read to you?

2)

There is several issues I take with your stance on

A50

and my specific vote on his wagon.

-

You had issue with me wanting to see more conversation happening prior to a lynch given the wagon progression and gamestate, but you voted

Elbirn

to L-1 here.

-

A lot of your reasons for your stance on my thoughts over the wagon, ones I responded in my earlier walls, are ones that can easily be alleviated if you actually asked questions and tried to figure my stance out in depth. A lot of your assessments about me are untrue, in terms of my vote, thought process, and your incomplete perception of how I work as town or scum.

-

There's plenty of other people on the wagon that you didn't read into, I gave a FULL case to push progression on that wagon and outlined my ideas, but your assertion on my alignment based off my specific stance to

Elbirn

doesn't sit right with me when you haven't looked at the full picture.

-

I'm seriously confused with your

Elbirn/Me/Sky

reads. You L-1'd

Elbirn

, and started townreading him (?), and then you started making realities of me being town OR scum, and that

Sky

would be scum WITH me.

3)

You not being responsive hasn't helped this. I can understand if it's for life reasons, but it's not helping me change the direction of my read if I'm so obviously wrong.

Qs

What is your read/thoughts

A50

upon his entrance?
Reads on

xyzzy, Sky, HWS

?

[Taly]

There's a better associative to

Profii-A50

than

Xyzzy-A50

imo

at least, it's very unlikely for

Profii-Xyzzy

team.

I don't see

Xyzzy-Sky

either.

xyzzy

feels least likely scum when evaluating the big picture of my reads.

Why are people calling A50 scum rn?

I had a case on

Elbirn

1725 to 1727, that led to my original vote on the slot.

But reasons I'm not feeling good on

A50

right now:

1)

Claimed VT when it wasn't necessary.

2)

Is openly saying that he wants to eat an NK but there's little reason to think he would.

3)

He's not explaining his stances, and he hasn't read up either.

People have their own reasons for pushing

Elbirn/A50

, but these are mine... and I've been the main person to voice their reasons there.

And I'm weary of being confbiased, but nobody's actually telling me why my townreads or scumreads and assessments aren't helpful or effective here.

[Taly]

Scum
Sky
xyzzy
profii
HWS
A50

Your bottom 2 SRs are horrible. Just saying.

Can you not say the same thing several players have said about my scumreads since D1?

[Taly]

I see a lot of

"this is town" and "this is scum"

statements that haven't changed much at all throughout the progression of this dayphase.

And while I don't necessarily question all of that

If some reads and narratives are so clear to multiple people in this game, and my reads/thoughts don't align with theirs, then why aren't more people explaining their POV to me and how I'm wrong?

I feel like I've been thinking out loud for a good portion this dayphase, and I'm not getting clarity or a desirable result.

And it's frustrating.

[Taly]

OH, OK! I didn't know they already told you they were horrible.
So, your bottom 2 SRs are hideous/gruesome/horrendous/disgusting/flawed/beyond reason
Pick one that hasn't been used before.

I'm meaning reasons, not adjectives.

[Taly]

OK, I'm not going to pry into reasons, or discuss the VT claim beyond this point

But my meta experiences points me to say this is town-

Almost

... at the moment. It's not a strong meta read. He's also someone I volatile read in several of my previous games with him.

We've blinded each other before. Like me and

TW

I'll get to

profii

soon, but I will say - I don't think town being content with their lynch is protown at all, despite gamestate.

But that's my philosophy, though.

~

Can the people who townread

HWS

tell me why they do?

[Taly]

[Taly]

I'm trying not to read the thread and get annoyed again.

Are you guys up for conversation?

[Taly]

Taly, you wrote in 2309 that "Chick could also be apart of the low-content group, but there's reason to suggest she's town over the others." could you clarify what you mean by there being reason to suggest that?

1) Andrius

is an invest role and claims 100% that

Chick

is town, it's not optimal for me to pry into the validity of that right now.

2)

I genuinely think it's towny for

Chick

to claim her venge, at least in the way she did it, alongside the idea that I don't think

Chick

is very likely to be scum with

Dram

.

I think those are two moderate-to-strong reasons there.

[Taly]

I'm not lynching

xyzzy

unless there's this compelling, articulated case, because I don't see it.

[Taly]

Would love to know why

HWS

is a bad scumread, still.

And literally any other read that multiple people have disagreed with me on at this point.

[Taly]

profii's 2406 feels like it can't come from scum. the "these are reasons why it would be good to lynch me" arguments feel like they'd be impossible from scum in this position.

I wouldn't put it past scum-

profii

.

[Taly]

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

I want to see something.

[Taly]

Because I don't see a straightforward reason to think

xyzzy's

scum and based off my recent analysis' that

MOST

people haven't actually read judging off their posts, I'm more inclined to think he's town out of the 5 people I've scumread this dayphase.

People have also noted that

profii

could be town and while I disagree on that, nobody's really discussing much on

profii

either way, aside from when I'm speaking to him directly.

So I'm taking initiative to further improve my own perception in this game, as well as taking a pushier approach right now because I see a lack of cohesion in the game narrative that I don't think people are realizing.

[Taly]

Also because

HWS

has has almost 0 pushing this game/dayphase, at least 0 pushing that he's acknowledged compared to

A50/Sky/profii/xyzzy

[Taly]

And because I'm not a fan of the playerlist's posting for the past 10-15 pages.

I can't express how unhelpful it is to invalidate claims by trying to push/scum-case an associative on

MOI/Andrius

right now

(Inferno and Sky to an extent)

I don't know why

TW/Chick

are being discussed as reads/lynches right now, other than trying to understand someone else's thoughts on them.

(HWS/and those suspicious of them)

The main reason for this

xyzzy

push from what I've seen is because he's not given much content, which he's dispelling that notion now that I, and other people are referring to him by the correct pronouns respectively.

(Andrius/anyone voting xyzzy at the moment)

I want people to not keep saying "I want to flip" and proceed to add nothing else.

(Chick/Ausuka to an extent)

I want ANYONE that feels strong on a

Sky

lynch to ACTUALLY tell me why that's preferably over

Profii/A50/xyzzy

.

(MOI/HWS to my knowledge has brought this up.)

I'm bothered when people continue to say my scumreads are assumptions or bad without giving an inclination on why they think that, or why they're saying that.

(A50/Andrius)

This isn't even counting the replacements on both a strong scumread

(Elbirn)

and a strong townread of mine

(Hit)

, alongside

profii

, who is either town content with his mislynch or scum throwing a basket of WIFOM.

I cannot be the only person that dislikes ALL this that they're seeing.

[Taly]

Taly y u vote hws when we're agreeing to consolidate on profii or xyzzy

if I had more posts/replies like this, alongside someone articulating their own thoughts behind something, then I wouldn't be strung up rn.

[Taly]

I'm just going to step back for a 1-2 days, may go VLA.

[Taly]

I'd rather see a

HeWhoSwims

flip over

xyzzy

at the moment.

I really dislike that no major wagon has had resistance this dayphase, and I don't trust that this is all because of scum.

sorry if I missed this in your ISO but why are you scumreading HWS? i believe you thought he was town early d2.

my gut says profii is town maybe? but i don't really know

I don't feel strongly on

HWS

at the moment, and I did townread him D2, but:

He's not making any cases for the 3 people he wants to lynch

Sky/Chick/TW

2164

He's expressing scumreads that are both easy to hop on and want to lynch due to WIFOM.

(TW's self-sorting, Chick feels lynchbaity and I don't see the point of a venge without a short kill-pool, and his scumread on Sky is basically her asking questions and not providing reads, which I both think would apply to him now, and not apply to Sky this dayphase.)

He's posted very little this dayphase and in contribution.

(Only 19 posts, he was more active in D1, which was much less active this dayphase comparatively)

He's someone that was on the

Hit

wagon and one of the last people to jump on it near EoD1.

He's brushed off the

Brass

push on him.

(Where is any response to Brass this dayphase about a vote in his ISO?)

I don't understand how agreeing with the two strongest opinions is scummy??? like I don't really feel like these two positions are in direct opposition, we don't have the threshold of information where finding both of them scummy is a bad thing

It's not scummy per se - just lazy and easy. I used to do this as scum in my first scum games, I feel... And it just adds onto the rest

If this is the one gaining traction then

VOTE: Dramonic

L-4 if the votecount higher up this page is accurate

That claim seems too well thought out to be fake.

If it ain't dram then I want to go back to Gazer...

But there's no wagon there so

VOTE: HitAlt

L-2

These 3 posts were side-by-side in his ISO.

His votes and reasonings aren't committal at the EoD1, as he's voting based on where wagons are and what has the most traction. This could be town and excusable, but it doesn't look great or helpful as he had about 5 other people in his lynchpool 1012, and L-3'ed

Hit

850 without much in depth reasoning for his scumread there.

Also because

HWS

has has almost 0 pushing this game/dayphase, at least 0 pushing that he's acknowledged compared to

A50/Sky/profii/xyzzy

Tell me why this isn't a compelling case. I've been very clear that I want a response on this.

[Taly]

The way you're doing it is "I'm not convinced with your reads, so I want you to sheep mine" without providing anything more than "personal preference".

I'm not asking people to follow me.

I'm asking me to engage with me.

[Taly]

Also, I've towncased

xyzzy

in multiple posts, or at least provided reasons to think he's likely town.

1725 to 1727

Also:

There's a better associative to

Profii-A50

than

Xyzzy-A50

imo

at least, it's very unlikely for

Profii-Xyzzy

team.

I don't see

Xyzzy-Sky

either.

xyzzy

feels least likely scum when evaluating the big picture of my reads.

And I feel like my ISO paints a pretty detailed picture on my read progression.

[Taly]

Sigh...
I'm clogging up the thread, I've said my piece right now, finals for my classes are in a few days, and I haven't been in the mindset to think about Mafia right now, or even in the mood to go on the Internet.

@Mod, VLA until Friday July 27th

I'm taking a breather. I'll likely post between now and Friday but it won't be significant or a lot.

[Taly]

btw Taly I'm honestly not sure if you're still misunderstanding this or not (I hope you're not intentionally antagonizing me? I honestly can't tell but that would be... super shitty of you so I hope that's not the case) but this is a fairly good article that would be worth checking out: https://lifehacker.com/how-to-use-gende ... 1821239054

FUCK, I typed he/she in reference to you again

sorry I'm being an insensitive ass here x-x I haven't been thinking about the wording of my posts lately, I've been close to yelling at the playerlist tbh, but that's not an excuse on my part.

I'll make a mental note on it for the future. I feel super shitty. I usually am more aware of things like this.

[Taly]

why does the wagon im NOT on consist of all the people that have either NOT actually read my posts

{Almost50 and Gamma/Andrius to an extent}

or HAVE actually read my posts?

{MOI, Rask, Inferno}

and how tf has

HWS

gone to L-2 within 2 days of my vote when there's only a fraction of the playerlist that have worked to be cohesive with me?

profii

, I can list a dozen reasons right now why your

"I'm going OK with getting shot/lynched now!"

mentality is extremely beneficial for scum, and it's throwing me off.

i dont see the depth of substance in

xyzzy's

posts that they had D1, as they do here, i dont get their reads much in full, and id rather they explain those reads before L-2ing

HWS

, the leading wagon that's NOT him.

i also dont like that

HWS

seems to give 0 fucks about having rope 2 inches from his face here, plus where has your vote been this entire dayphase

HWS

?

MOI

can you case me your thoughts on

Sky

? I don't like compromise lynches, and it feels like

xyzzy

and SOMEWHAT

HWS

are fitting this bill tbh.

id rather not lynch until im done with VLA - IE, the weekend - but i doubt ill resolve my reads until i see a flip :/

[Taly]

dont see the depth of substance in xyzzy's posts that they had D1, as they do here, i dont get their reads much in full, and id rather they explain those reads before L-2ing HWS, the leading wagon that's NOT

them

.

correcting myself at every point here

Taly, if it makes you feel better, I read your posts about as carefully and thoroughly as I read anything else on the site.

Also, I'm at the point of not compromise lynching, but kind of apathy lynching.

Though I love this game and I never want it to end.

thats reassuring

i feel like the quality of my gameplay this dayphase has degenerated :/

[Taly]

Did I say vanilla town or just VT?

VOTE: xyzzy

So, not only have you:

1)

Pushed an understated associative case against

Me/Sky

without engaging with my case on

A50

in depth, AFTER you L-1'd him.

{Most of your first-half D2 ISO}

2)

Kept your vote on

Flub

most of D1 and alternated from him to the

Hit/Xyzzy

wagon despite repeatedly saying you want to vote

Dram

but scumread the people on his wagon.

{Read my ISO where I said xyzzy/profii are UNLIKELY to be scum together}

3)

Avoided a good bit of my questions and thoughts in my walls toward you in favor of saying deflective statements like

"Don't tell me how to play"

when I'm trying to understand your POV. 2406

4)

Proceed to OFFER yourself to be lynched OR use up a Town-Vig's shot if it meant sealing the fate of another person, who you DEFENDED as a townread in your case against me.

{A50}

2477

5)

You L-1'd

xyzzy

the MOMENT you got traction on your wagon, despite you saying you were going to reevaluate

HWS

. 2541

VOTE: profii

I'm done postponing my vote here. I can no longer rationalize how this is town.

I no longer feel good about the

xyzzy

lynch with several people's votes there.

I can still be swayed back onto

HWS

because I'd love to see his flip alongside

profii

.

I still want

MOI

to sell me on

Sky

being the best option today, he and I are the only people that have actually entertained

Sky

-scum in depth this dayphase despite her off-putting D1 performance and vote history... so I'm worried there.

[Taly]

Nursing their beer (Not voting) - HeWhoSwims

oof
sorry flashwagon pals

VOTE: HWS

Moderator error, actually. HWS is on Gamma Emerald.

Where's

HWS

vote on

GE

? I didn't see it

[Taly]

Missed this post.

I really can't agree with Andrius' "If you shoot someone unacceptable we'll lynch you" in 2343. while it's generally a good idea for a vigilante to give a shit about what the town wants, it seems like being a populist and just shooting the most scumread player every night is a good way for an SK to skate by.

Of all the things Xyzzy’s recently dropped this is the one that I think is the most troubling. It shows no acknowledgement of the game-state and the fact that forcing a suspected Serial Killer to shoot into the ever shrinking pool of PoE suspects is very powerful for Town. I don’t see this as a Town perspective.

Taly

– Do you disagree?

Yeah, I quoted

Andrius'

post myself because I agreed with it.

I can see both arguments here. It could be a scum agenda to enforce someone to be NKed if the Town is wrong about their suspects, but I agree that shooting in the PoE pool is a valuable tool for the Town, especially right now.

I also can see how

TW

not revealing his reads and shot possibilities as trying to be more effective as an outed killing role as BOTH town or SK.

So I don't like

xyzzy's

commentary here, but it doesn't strongly ping me as scum.

~

From your posts, I assume you have a light associative to

Sky-Xyzzy

? Or at least scumread them strongly on an independent level?

I made an assessment of

xyzzy-profii

unlikely to be scum together. 2376

Can you give me your read on

profii

? Do you see any associative with

profii-Sky

or

profii-xyzzy

that I don't see IF you scumread

profii

still?

[Taly]

Deadline in 3 days, 6 hours, 14 minutes

Deadline was extended by 3 days.

[Taly]

Look through my games... I'm just someone who doesn't move votes a lot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ regardless of alignment. Plus I'm not a fan of all of the proposed lynches - I have made it clear who I am interested in at this point and voting there by myself isn't going to help me at all.

If it's so clear that you want a certain persons lynch, then why don't you vote and case for that?

This is the central issue I've had with the playerlist - generally - this dayphase.

A lot of people are saying they WANT a wagon/lynch, and that they're confident on one person, but then maybe two people challenges current lynches/wagons and votes to consolidate.

I just think it's so easy for scum to shadow towny players here.

[Taly]

MOI

has expressed lynching

Sky

I'm fine with taking these last few days to evaluate her in depth.

And

Andrius

is the main person stating that

Chick

is town - and he has hinted to an invest role - do you think he's being truthful and/or is town?

Better question; are you wanting to lynch

Chick

off the pretense of milking a venge, or because you think she's actually scum? Or both?

[Taly]

1) Hit

softed an investigative role where he found out that

TW

made a kill N1.

TW

claimed he shot

Dram

, there's been no counter to this. So it's mechanically impossible that

TW

is groupscum with this information being valid, and that he's confirmed to be a killing role that's not mafia.

2) Chick

is not going to last to lylo. I can't see that happening. She's either Town-Venge with high NK equity, or she's going to be lynched prior to lylo because a Venge in lylo, regardless of alignment, is town gamethrowing tbh - very bad odds for town numerically, and that's not speaking logistically.

I don't like

Chick's

play a whole lot and I do understand the suspicion there, but claiming Venge, especially D2, is extremely unsurvivalistic imo

[Taly]

To my knowledge,

Andrius

hasn't, and will not claim his role yet.

[Taly]

TW

has been death-marked too, honestly.

He, and the Mafia team, do not want each other to survive. So the Mafia wouldn't want him to last long, and

TW

- despite alignment - would rather survive to kill as many Mafia as possible.

TW

is either town that wants to work with us, or an SK that is forced to work with us.

If

TW

makes a shit shot, then he's a viable lynch.

If

TW

doesn't work to gamesolve much at all, then he's a viable lynch.

But why not lynch

TW

now?

1)

He'll lower the scum/lynch pool, which is invaluable in a multiple-PR large game.

2)

We're not doing Mafia a favor by offing someone that could and would dwindle their remaining numbers.

3)

There is an argument to say he's town, and there's an argument to say that suspecting him as an SK continually hurts town because that could paint him as a good mislynch for scum later.

So right now, I've decided to treat

TW

like a Town-Vig, because this helps town the most otherwise.

[Taly]

Oh wait, I messed up there thinking you voted

Hit

lol was thinking about something else I guess. Same principle applies to

xyzzy

Still, is this your only response to my vote/reasons on you?

[Taly]

5 made me lol if that helps

But yea I made a mistake on the Elbirn wagon just like you did there and you have just death tunnelled me since so excuse me for not being overly interested in what you have to say

I’m still happy to die at this point - I’d expect TW to go straight after as well

Posts like these keep me from second-guessing my scumread on you.

You deem me as death-tunneling when I've only just now pushed you specifically. I don't have a problem at all with you responding, that's what I WANT to happen so I can sort you better.

You saying that you're happy to die ONLY if it means

TW

- a likely town role, if not, a non-scum role - dies as well, is the exact opposite of what I've said is helpful for Town right now.

And yeah, I admit I messed up with names in the previous post. But why are you drawing a connection between us if I'm so wrong about you being scum? I still don't fully understand your read on

A50

, even now. You townread them, but you put them up as a lynch option next yourself without contest, after you already pushed me for formulating a case on

Elbirn

, the person originally in his slot.

Honestly

profii

, if you're really town, can we actually discuss reads and the gamestate?

Why is

xyzzy

a good lynch to you?

[Taly]

X_X My access to the computer for the next few days is about to be over with. I've had more free time than I thought since I begun VLA, but I'm going to be phoneposting starting now, and until late Friday or the weekend.

[Taly]

UNVOTE:

[Taly]

phoneposting until Saturday but I don't think VLA was necessary in hindsight x.x

I think I've let my own game biases and standard cloud my thinking here.

...it's my biggest problem in Mafia.
MOI and occasionally Rask have helped me with this in this game.

Basically, a lot of what MOI says and his prompting questions to me are giving me some clarity, or helping me in a certain direction.

Nothing has come from my HWS or profii pushes except for the same people who almost follow my vote pattern without engaging with me much.

I can also see profii as town feeling actual paranoia about my slot ans those he has questioned. It doesn't read as scum muddying the waters given his vote history.

He was also more forthcoming when he was Mafia in Open 712 and i hardpushed him now that I think more about it... even as scum

Sky, why did you vote for HWS in the first place? Also, the reasons behind your profii read haven't changed since you originally voted him from what I've seen

I want to hear more about your xyzzy townread

Same HWS question goes to TW

[Taly]

TW, read on Sky/A50?

Sky, how is A50 starting a CW on xyzzy a point against profii when you say HWS fits the bill to be associated with profii?

[Taly]

Also if we want to talk about survivalistic voting

Xyzzy voted HWS to L2 when they were at L2

Xyzzy voted profii when it got traction again and ended the HWS flashwagon.

But if you read Xyzxys readslist in 2482, neither Profii or HWS were in his bottom group for Mafia

Xyzzy also hasn't talked about his Inferno/Gamma scumread either

And Hits slot being scum is comical at this point

Most of the death pool have either vote hopped, voted to survive (or consolidate w/e), or voted without a lot of reasoning themselves.

[Taly]

Huh? I'm saying that A50 started the counterwagon and profii joined it so there are scum points to both there along with a possible association.

I'm also saying, independent of my A50 read, that HWS could fit the bill for a profii partner which is one of the reasons I was willing to compromise on a HWS lynch.

Is there a reason you're seeing those as related?

So you're saying both A50 and HWS COULD be associative to profii?

How does HWS for the bill for profii partner?

[Taly]

Xyzzy also hasn't talked about

their

Inferno/Gamma scumread either

[Taly]

What was xyzzy softing?

Rask can you elaborate on Sky not being a scumread to you?

I'm leaning towards your plan these past 3 posts

[Taly]

So you have 4 townreads in a game full of claims, results, and a dead scum?

[Taly]

I'm still trying to find the clear scum motivation that half the playerlist sees in xyzzy

[Taly]

My reads on the death pool have now gone back to what they were before the profii wagon...

Rask, tell me why you don't scumread Sky?
HWS, can you actually look at A50 and tell me if you see town motivation there?

[Taly]

Sky/A50 > HWS/profii > xyzzy

[Taly]

VOTE: SkyGazer

I'm done second-guessing myself. I wrote a post about me 360'ing with my reads, but I need to be succinct. We're less than 2 days out and I'm ready to end this day.

I'll hammer

xyzzy

to avoid a No Lynch if we're a few hours out from deadline.
Bottom line, was very likely to be a scum CW from

Dram

, alongside

Hit

. Don't like some of the votes on them now, and my ISO and thoughts both D1 and early-D2 tell me they are likely town.

I'll hop onto

A50

according to whether he's a more popular wagon prior to deadline.
I don't feel confident to meta-read them, I don't like their dismissive and wrong assessment of me, and I don't fully understand their self-focus here.

I'll vote/hammer

HWS/profii

if they are the only option next to

xyzzy

.
I think most of my issues here are related to playstyle if I think about it, and I did originally townread these two, and I'm trusting that for now.

This game approach is required by the gamestate and I'm done fighting that.

[Taly]

skygazer is a bad lynch

Then tell me why, and tell me which lynch do you believe is best out of

HWS/profii/A50

?

[Taly]

See ya

Andrius

Deadline in 0 days, 23 hours, 57 minutes

Just hit 24 hour mark.

I'm fine with a hammer now but I thought more people would check in since yesterday... It is the weekend, though.

1) Hit

softed an investigative role where he found out that

TW

made a kill N1.

TW

claimed he shot

Dram

, there's been no counter to this. So it's mechanically impossible that

TW

is groupscum with this information being valid, and that he's confirmed to be a killing role that's not mafia.

2) Chick

is not going to last to lylo. I can't see that happening. She's either Town-Venge with high NK equity, or she's going to be lynched prior to lylo because a Venge in lylo, regardless of alignment, is town gamethrowing tbh - very bad odds for town numerically, and that's not speaking logistically.

I don't like

Chick's

play a whole lot and I do understand the suspicion there, but claiming Venge, especially D2, is extremely unsurvivalistic imo

unsure if you know this but vengeful players can't be scum in normals.

xyzzy's profii's vote is bad I guess and since the game kinda needs to move on I'll give intent to hammer.

Oh, well I checked on the Wiki in case, and it does say Town-Venge is the only normal variant.

I don't see why scum-

Chick

would fakeclaim that if she weren't in trouble for being lynched...?

I guess discussing this isn't priority right now.

[Taly]

at least I was able to vote before hammer...

[Taly]

before me or someone i strongly townread gets murdered this coming nightphase

+Moderate and/or Solid Townreads

Rask (Strong, Solid)
MOI (Strong, Solid)
Gamma (Strong - Mostly because of Hit)
Brass (Moderate)
Inferno (Moderate, Volatile)
Chick (Moderate)
Ausuka (Moderate)

[Taly]

TW

why should I townread you again?

[Taly]

Andrius can be in the +mod/solid town area too

[Taly]

TW

why should I townread you again?

Tmrw we'll have two red flips hah. Idk I'm not so easy a read that you should locktown read me here but I think you know I approach this differently as scum

Then stop making me question whether we're reading the same game or not

[Taly]

Also, taking mental note that

Sky

posted right after the hammer, but didn't even address my vote then.

[Taly]

well hey maybe y'all'll get lucky and you'll just keep lynching town and nightkilling scum

I still don't know why the hell

Sky

was a bad lynch.

[Taly]

Am I invisible to you guys?

[Taly]

People want a flip and it seems like some people are becoming apathetic, but that's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Xyzzy

, I asked you why

Sky

was a bad lynch.

Sky

, do you have no response to my vote?

profii

, why after you still apathetic about your lynch and why don't you combat that for your OWN scumreads?

Chick

, can you explain why

profii

is a better lynch over

Sky/A50/HWS

?

>

I've stated an unpopular opinion that

xyzzy

is likely town out of the pool.

>

I've stated a seemingly unpopular opinion that

Rask/Ausuka

is town.

I just don't pick up on a strong cohesive player in the game narrative right now.

Am I going about this wrong or something?

[Taly]

I'm mostly directing that to

TW

and maybe

Sky/Brass

[Taly]

MOI

lets be each other's half-functional sounding board.

I need one.

[Taly]

Andrius was MOI's "sounding board?"

I don't like that comparison, it sound suspiciously like MOI was just using him to make himself sound better....

Keeping this in mind for later.

Sounding Board:

"a person or group whose reactions to suggested ideas are used as a test of their validity or likely success before they are made public."

It's a valid tool for town to use with someone they're familiar with and believe is town as well...

[Taly]

Max 1000 characters or about a 1/2 taly, no quotes

I'll reply to your prompt once I see

Chick/Xyzzy/Sky

respond to me...
maybe even

A50/Profii

engage with me as well, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Taly]

I'll get to the last 2 pages later today

[Taly]

Without going into full depth, I'm somewhat liking

Sky's

posts with the wagon increasing on her.

Rask

, can you pinpoint what about

xyzzy's

reaction is scum-indicative? And how the gamestate reflects them being likely scum?

It feels so weird thinking

xyzzy

is scum at the moment given EoD1... and I could see rationale for

A50

town but engaging with their posts is going to worsen my headache right now.

profii

, being distrustful towards me because I was one of about half the playerlist to think you were scum is a not a good reason.

Damn, this would be so much easier if the whole death-pool wasn't so anti-town.
It just seems like a disservice because it's apparent some townplayers don't want to lynch scum lol They're more concerned on advocating for OR rejecting a lynch on THEM.

This was why I felt

Sky

was town amongst them all in the first place.

[Taly]

I can't promise that I'm changing my mind on a vote/lynch for the 100th time later today

But if I'm wrong this dayphase, I'm absolving myself and almost definitively lynching the shit out of what's left of the death-pool D3, provided there's not at least a red flip there.

[Taly]

Hell, like you said

Rask

,

HWS

isn't the worst offender here with what I said but where are they?

[Taly]

Ausuka

, can you see

Sky-HWS-Dram

as a possibility?

About to leave, so I probably won't reply for a few hours - plus I just want to see if our thought processes are lining up atm.

[Taly]

Inferno

Talk about the pool
{A50, HWS, profii, Sky, xyzzy}

Discussion outside of this is not optimal for town right now given the gamestate, dayphase content, and deadline

[Taly]

Phoneposting btw

Also I don't know if I'll have time to post elaborately tonight so I'll try tomorrow

[Taly]

If this could help a quicker decision for town - since this gamestate is relatively foreign to my many games of experience - let's do it this way.

Sky

A50

Profii

HWS

xyzzy

We all place our names for a pseudo-wagon on the people of this group that we want to lynch right now.

After all the cooperating and majority of the playerlist places their name someone, the most votes gets lynched.

If there's a tie, the playerlist can discuss between a smaller pool.

I'll make my choices after I read more in depth tomorrow.

[Taly]

If anyone has a problem with this method then they should be quick, direct, and succinct.

Copy/paste the name-line-up-pool like

person - Taly
person 2 -

etc.

[Taly]

Scum are playing a splendid game by day I guess. There is NO ONE that I'm

confident

they'd flip red.

@Taly: Seriously now.. why am I in your suspects/lynch pool still? And how would my flip help you reconsider your reads? (Hint: To save yourself some effort, just assume I am today's lynch and I flipped GREEN. So what next?)

1)

Half of your votes and reads this dayphase have been based off "sheeping" someone or something. You haven't voiced much of any independent thought beyond you assessing how people WOULD read you. 2197, 2721, 2771

2)

You also use the term "sheeping" a bit too much... In 2456 and 2457, you directly ignored the posts I've made to back-up my thoughts in this game and painted me as though I'm trying to get people to sheep me versus actually working with me.

3)

With that said, I didn't like your early assessment of my posts, and your response to my scumread on

you/HWS

being terrible and you flippantly replying to me is unhelpful. 2403

4)

You believe I'm confbiased but you don't change that, you essentially have the mentality that I should just leave you alone and have you take the NK when you've ALREADY claimed VT in a multiple-PR game.

The only major points I have to townread you on what I COULD HYPOTHETICALLY infer based off what limited info. I have on your gameplay, and you having the

"Go ahead and vote me"

next to the

"I'm pushing against my lynch but not pushing another person"

mentality ALONGSIDE

profii

practically giving himself up to rope is anti-town.

Bottom Line:

There's nothing in your ISO that specifically points to you for being town from what I've seen of you, and your posts have not helped me resolve my other reads this dayphase just like several other players, nor have they helped me resolve my thoughts on you.

I can see rationale for you being town, but just like

Profii

and just like

xyzzy

, and maybe even

Sky

.

But your play right now, pinges me hard.

And if you flipped town, I don't quite know what my reads would be. They'd change my thoughts on the rest of the lynchpool, and maybe even outside of that.

Tell me who you think should be the lynch.

[Taly]

@Taly – Please don’t start some pseudo-vote project this close to deadline. It is only going to sidetrack the Town in general when we need to get a lynch complete. Pick your candidate and push them. Even if it isn’t Sky you need to narrow your focus at this stage.

Yeah, I don't think what I proposed earlier was a great idea

But I'm very close to closing my eyes, and picking a name out of a cup on who I'm sticking on for lynching today.

It's gotten that bad.

[Taly]

Inferno390 is being replaced through no fault of his own. This may extend the deadline even further.

I'd prefer an extended nightphase if it comes down to that.

I'm completely with

Chickadee

in the sentiment that this day just needs to end.

profii

is selling himself to the rope, and I could just lynch that because it's a shitshow of WIFOM.

xyzzy

isn't around when he should be, but he's been unhelpful.
I just forgot

HWS

was in this game, so why not lynch that since scum would supposedly be demotivated and he could be scum anyway?

A50

is ?????? - reasons to think they're town and scum

Sky

is ?????? - reasons to think they're town and scum

[Taly]

Inferno390 is being replaced through no fault of his own. This may extend the deadline even further.

I'd prefer an extended nightphase if it comes down to that.

I'm completely with

Chickadee

in the sentiment that this day just needs to end.

profii

is selling himself to the rope, and I could just lynch that because it's a shitshow of WIFOM.

xyzzy

isn't around when

they

should be, but

their

been unhelpful.
I just forgot

HWS

was in this game, so why not lynch that since scum would supposedly be demotivated and he could be scum anyway?

A50

is ?????? - reasons to think they're town and scum

Sky

is ?????? - reasons to think they're town and scum

Fuck X_X Sorry again

I'm not thinking about my posts right now, because I'm not thinking very clearly.

[Taly]

the lynchpool is literally Taly's scumpool from earlier and he's made a lot of caselike posts so probably iso him.

oh yeah Taly's epic scumhunting wallposts. BTW I have a small reason to think Taly is town.

Nobody's really challenged or directly engaged with my scumreads this dayphase on a consistent level.

Outside of people either misrepping me and saying that I'm pushing others to sheep me, or people who blandly state that my scumread is

"insert adjective here"

and don't digress much about that, that is.

There's a handful of people that don't do this, but a lot of them are not as active as I am.

That's literally why I've hopped between almost my entire wagon/scumread pool today. I do think I've been alone with gamesolving a good portion of it.

[Taly]

It is the opposite of my Scum-Meta to create a 3+ person lynchpool and hop between those wagons.

I'd lurk out as Scum before I put so much emphasis on bullshit in my posts, because I don't give people leverage to scumread me as scum.

And me being doubted, distrusted, and scumread this game isn't new.

[Taly]

I also disagree that the scum/lynchpool is based SOLELY on my reads.

Other people have mirrored similar reads at the beginning of the dayphase, and there are SEVERAL intervals where I place emphasis on considering someone is town, or someone is strongly scum, and only a fraction of people follow that, sometimes with their own reasoning.

[Taly]

Tbh, I'm lost right now. :/ And this doesn't happen often.

[Taly]

Lynching claims right now isn't optimal, from my understanding.

And that's a large reason why the scum/lynchpool is what it is, and it's partially centered on who people are PoEing based off of last dayphase and gameplay.

[Taly]

profii

, i still dont know why you want to be lynched....

[Taly]

Deadline in 0 days, 10 hours, 20 minutes

Deadline is in 10 hours,

@Mod, can we get a VC?

[Taly]

I have to go, but I'm compromising when I get home this afternoon.

A lynch is better than no lynch. :/

[Taly]

Also

if I voted with consistent townreads this dayphase, my vote's likely going onto

xyzzy

, unless someone actually makes a case for their reads.

[Taly]

VOTE: xyzzy

Thanks for your persuasive skills,

TW

.

My play has been absolute shit for town D2.

[Taly]

Finally decided on how I'll approach

TW

this game

[Taly]

Pine

, I just want to say you're doing a good job modding especially in light of the multiple replace outs. I like the flavor you add

[Taly]

Taly what are your reads on the players with claims?

Town unless and until/if actions and claims do not align with motives or statements, for the most part.

Or if the lynchpool has multiple town in it, which would be shocking because I don't know how 3+ people in that pool can possibly be town based off gameplay.

{Sky/HWS/Profii/Xyzzy/A50}

I've stated very clearly of the reasons I've suspected each, and I've debated each of them to be town at one point or another.

But I can't dismiss the cases I've made because I haven't seen people cultivate big arguments for a specific read here like I have. I've evaluated other people's thoughts toward my assertions

{MOI/Rask/TW}

and even

{HWS/A50/Sky}

as well, but nothing has given me 100% clarity.

And so, I think it's optimal to take claims off face-value... it's D2 in a large.

[Taly]

I'm not specc'ing anymore than I already have.

Anyone who's specc'ing right now is catching my eye.

Anyone who's making specc'ing a priority above a lynch right now is pinging the shit out of me.

[Taly]

What? How can you have no opinions on players outside the unclaimed players?

I never said that I had no opinion.

I do have opinions, and they're fluctuating a lot.

But I see no point in discussing the people who claimed because I have no way in hell to validate someone's claim as 100% conf.

Nor do I know how that'd fit into a town or scum narrative for that person's alignment.

Discussing claimed players in a large on D2 - this dayphase proves - is mostly speculation AND associative discussion that literally has no clear answer or help at all for the town.

Don't you think some of them have to be scum?

It's very likely, but I have my own suspects right now, and sorting the motives of how EACH player claimed their role and why is begging for both WIFOM and a great lack of clarity.

I want to sort players I know the least about, I want to flip players that I think are very possible partners to

Dram

, not an associative or speculated SvT to another living player right now.

Scum will most definitely be weeded out amongst claimed players soon.

When I die don't let MOI endgame btw

At least 3 other people have shared a sentiment very similar to this... just with different names, and "don't lynch" as well.

OK so I might be a bit spammy this twilight because I don't want to put effort into writing a post and then lose it all.

The most important thing to remember is that MOI is scum not just on role but on play too. His recent ISO is pretty scummy I think, and I've given my thoughts about him.

Taly's town in a surface level way but please be wary of him. He is capable of being surface level obvtown as scum. If it's multiball the 3 scum thing is damning and the fact he refuses to talk about claimed players and thinks all the unclaimed players are scum is also fairly damning.

1)

You're deliberately doubtcasting me by using my own potential as a scumplayer?

I've been doubtcasted AND mislynched in games as power-obvtown because people thought I was a deepwolf.
It's not 100%

"Taly's going to skate by as obvtown since he's OP as scum! Hehehe!"

There ARE towntells and scumtells in my play. You have played with me several times, and while I can't hold you to a specific approach on me, I don't feel good that you're stating I'm surface-level town while not trying to resolve your weariness of me.

It feels like you're intentionally generating uncertainty.

2) WE HAVE NO CONFIRMED WAY TO TELL THAT THIS IS MULTIBALL.

Based off thread information, unless you believe

TW

is an SK, I don't know why you're making an argument that my suspects are

"damning"

to my alignment...

Do you know something about the setup that I don't?

3) READ MY READ PROGRESSION.

I have

NOT ONCE

said that

ALL

the people in

{Sky/HWS/profii/A50/xyzzy}

are scum, but I believe there's a strong argument for more than one person in this group to be scum.

4)

Where did you get the

"3 strong-scum read conviction"

from me? Have you read my cases and thoughts this dayphase?

[Taly]

A50

is

xyzzy

scum-leaning or town-leaning to you?

[Taly]

I'm not getting NKed this game

I'm reminded why I never compromise lynch.

[Taly]

Taly.

Keep in mind that the common usage of hider before the normal changes isn't the Normal version of hider. That's a Weak Hider. A normal Hider doesn't die when visiting scum.

Yeah, I know that.

But anyone who thinks:
1) I am scum.
2) I was a likely NK target N1.

Needs to reread the game.

[Taly]

I don't know why

profii

keeps baiting for his lynch, but I think his motive is town unless he's actively going against his wincon in retrospect of

Dram's

death.

:/

A50

flipping town upsets me. I've been extremely inaccurate this game, but at least his flip helps me evaluate others.

When I find motivation, I'll look at

MOI, Ausuka, and Jingle

alongside reevaluting D2 claims.

[Taly]

Actually, I don't see how

Ausuka

isn't town.

[Taly]

I forgot why I'm townreading

MOI