NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Raskolnikov]

Taly is probably just town here btw

[Raskolnikov]

Inferno what are you doing

[Raskolnikov]

I'm conftown andy is conftown barring stupid weird gambit MoI is not the type of player to ever do I'd imagine because he plays with rigour and forethought
Ausuka and moi themselves aren't but eh
There are no redirectors or things like that in a normal game

[Raskolnikov]

Rask, you've REALLY taken a backseat the past few days. Maybe V/LA, maybe not but I admit I was letting you wear the cape since it allowed me to backseat sit and be an investigative role but if we're gonna actually play this game its gonna take a village and we can't do that with MIA HitAltSlot MIA xyzzy etc.

Yeah I'm kind of checking out of playing mafia in general, haven't in'd for weeks and going to take a long break when my commitments finish
Though I don't think that makes my reads actually that much worse and I'm inno'd so whatever

I do legimately think profii is a good lynch here but flipping someone like supermeh/null like xyzzy is still probably ev+ (and poe points to such slots given innos flying around and I don't think e.g. hitalt is scum anymore)
The real fun in this game should be as the claims and roles develop because if not conflicting results, you can setup spec normal-games like a motherfucker. but I'm unlikely to be around for that
Until then just avoid any "train-wreck" action I think. But yeah profii didn't feel town when I was watching his posting/turn realtime.

[Raskolnikov]

Brassherald, inferno interactions with dram are really in depth so onus would be on you to dissect it and case

[Raskolnikov]

HEY GAMMA MY DUDE

[Raskolnikov]

He's saying it so he doesn't get shot fam

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: xyzzy

[Raskolnikov]

Can I get a sanity check on this
Is a50 justifying claiming VT on the basis that it'll attract a scum NK?

[Raskolnikov]

think xyzzy is more showing work for showing sake than trying to accomplish or work towards anything
admittedly this is tonal but i dont feel like behind everything he actually cares about the lynch

[Raskolnikov]

think xyzzy might be better than profii
theres a world in which profii is unorthodox town

his reaction to pressure is fine

[Raskolnikov]

though idk xyzzy is like softing i guess but I feel like theres already decent power and ive generally been too lenient on claims

wouldnt mind lynching almost50 for his selffocus and though he voted xy the way he did was kinda bad

[Raskolnikov]

i think lynch xyzzy shoot almost50

[Raskolnikov]

maybe profii or sky they deserve the consideration

[Raskolnikov]

*invest profii or sky

i dont scumread sky though (but enough people do that invest'd be helpful)

[Raskolnikov]

what kind of souless reaction is this

[Raskolnikov]

yeah tw should shoot the vt claims like almost50

[Raskolnikov]

if youre SK go ahead but if youre vig id recommend against it as much as i wouldnt mind taking a bow and exiting left stage

[Raskolnikov]

eh just lynch him if he does it

[Raskolnikov]

ehhh just flip him if he shoots me ill tease him in dead thread afterwards whether hes vig or sk for the rest of the game

[Raskolnikov]

claim?

[Raskolnikov]

btw never lynch taly this game if I do die
probably not gamma either he can be lynchbait but hitalt probably town

finally never lynch chick before andrius slot and especially never andrius before MoI align determined, which should just be something obvious but lol2018towns

[Raskolnikov]

the reserve beetlejuice is always kinda lame booo

[Raskolnikov]

oh yeah one thingerarooni

gamma/hitalt != brassherald from today (true)

and if xyzy flips town maybe look at brass abit because he kinda felt half hearted in his opposition to it

[Raskolnikov]

oh yeah ausuka and moi isnt confirmed in any way also but they do read town (i could maybe see moi like MAYBE working to kinda buddy andy otoh though? but not s-s)

errr and probably do whatever the opposite of what gamma's reads are

[Raskolnikov]

finally lynch in vts and unclaimeds

anyone trying to dismantle the prstuff-quasi-grouping is likely scum motivated
theres maybe 1 scum in FVs or maybe inferno/gamma/brass but i dont think 2 is likely

[Raskolnikov]

well if TW shoots me just lynch him first and foremost but subsequently

mmm I think thats everything i guess

[Raskolnikov]

for the most part follow Taly and if Andrius has a good replacement him especially

oh my god if someone like mathdino replaces into andrius slot thatd be MMMMMM

[Raskolnikov]

good meaning in a "statistically proven track record of good gameplay" there not in an align sense given I think andy especially on that replace now in addition to the fruit thingo is very likely townslot regardless of what next guy says

[Raskolnikov]

oh yeah and my townread on sky isnt that good and more an absence of thinking shes scummy but i really havent looked that much into her and if xyzxyy does flip town odds go up. but still people should probably like, meta or something and try to do due diligence there
otoh a50 and profii feel scummier just intuitively

[Raskolnikov]

ehhh i dont let associations stop me from scumreading people as individuals

idk im not personally attacking you i just didnt feel much vigour in your protest, usually just try to read whats in the game but if thats for out of game reasons okay ill try to take it into account I guess

maybe tw shoots me tho

[Raskolnikov]

tw is vig or sk and should live and die by his shots
if tw behaves like a good duckling and shoots scum or scumreads he can live until scum are lynched, and then if the game isn't over he gets sadly respectfully lynched for his honorable service and be given a decent burial and a full round salute
if tw starts shooting town he's gone off the rails and as a thread to town wincon has to be put down whether he's SK or vig tbh

[Raskolnikov]

*shoots scum or town's scumreads (i.e. acts as second lynch)

[Raskolnikov]

the problem is the real fun this game starts late
as a normal game it can be broken so hard with the lack of theme fuckery and NRG stuff, when all the claims round out and you start getting conflicts its ezpz to find out ones out

i used to be a fan of direct democracy but really people should at that point just find one person likely to be town and actually knows what they're doing/has proficiency and kingmake them

[Raskolnikov]

find odd ones out
dont play tipsy folks

[Raskolnikov]

you know this may be an unpopular opinion but i dont really townread xyzzy "posthammer" usually town spew a bit or try to reiterate a read or something

[Raskolnikov]

actually yes that's pretty comparable

[Raskolnikov]

Is anyone here a profii expert?
Would he AtE like such as scum?

[Raskolnikov]

why

[Raskolnikov]

-if you remove {Profii - a50} from the game you get the flips and you force the entire player list to focus on new issues as 95%+ of this game day has focussed on {p/a50} - if anyone is hiding in the wagon, they can’t just go back to it tomorrow.

what do you think people should focus on right now

[Raskolnikov]

mmm i skimmed profii games a bit
unfortunately I think he probably is town here from his approach in the last couple of days

[Raskolnikov]

tbh i want to flip xyzzy for real
really dont think theres anything town about how they reacted

though at this point i wonder

what was the crux of the sky case again? opportunism and like defensive play I think?

[Raskolnikov]

your appointed meta meister delivered ngl

wow you cant just pretend nothing happened now. throw this man into the dungeon for treason. guards!

Request denied.

[Raskolnikov]

a50 could be scum though his willingness to vote almost any of the wagons willynilly is weird to read into an associative sense

strangely he seems to want everyone to visit him. the question is if hes scum and wants to reflexively poison everyone, or is just throwing a party

[Raskolnikov]

Skygazer A50 Xyzxyz HWS

Who out of anyone would do you think we should lynch

right now, after this non-flip

and why
Max 1000 characters or about a 1/2 taly, no quotes

[Raskolnikov]

Mmm so in a 17p game there should probably be 4 scum if extending up from standard 3/13 setups. just 4 scum, 4 scum + SK or maybe maybe 3 scum + SK but probably not safe to assume and at any rate unlikely

My ~intuitive~ grasp on such about now being
1{ Nos/Andrius/Gustavo, Chickadee, Taly/dave } +++++Town
2{ Gamma/HitAlt, Ausuka} +++Town
3( Inferno, MoI, Profii, brassherald ) ?Town

~{theworst} vig or SK

but such would mean that 3/4, or maybe MAYBE 2/4 are of following
{ A50/Elbirn, Skygazer, xyzzy, HWS }
and especially the former that doesn't quite seem right. hell I even think HWS isn't that bad but a50+sky+xyzzy cant just be scum right? ...right?

so (3) or (2) probably does have at least a scum
Inferno or brass as commontownread drambussing scum? From that many scum partners it's probably fairly likely at least one did take a reasonably strong bussing stance I think.
or fake pr within MoI Gamma/hit though such is annoying to weed out. Might actually eventually have to try meta MoI and figure out his scumrange unfortunately

intriguing
so I wouldnt mind more speculation as to what realistically likely is the case outside even if the lynchpool is maybe narrowed for today at least (by mostly that it seems necessary to solve at least something out of everything thats gone on today and resolve at least some portion)

if the suggested a50 != xyzzy as based on elbirn does hold (but I think its pretty weak though) then poe wise lynching outside of the pair is actually optimal although unintuitive, which would go towards maybe sky

mmmm

[Raskolnikov]

I can still kill u from the dungeon

la la la i cant hear you

[Raskolnikov]

A50 tell me why do you seem to care more about everyones read on you than on lynching scum?

[Raskolnikov]

HMMMMMMMMM

[Raskolnikov]

Ok almost
but let's say i didn't believe you when you say you're scum here and scumclaiming and what have you
in a hypothetical, if you had actually rolled town instead who do you think is most likely scum here?

[Raskolnikov]

Let me be blunt: The word on the street is that you're scum together. This is what scum do to their partners. They FoS them but try not to lynch them. They include them in a lynch/Vig pool but hope it never lands on them.

Additional unsubstantiated sources tipped me scum might have a RB even, or intend to take out the Vig tonight so a 25% on xy being the Vig shot there.

who was anonymous source and where is he now
did he know too much

[Raskolnikov]

nah sky isnt scum fuck the case

I think lynching xyyzy and original course is best here actually

[Raskolnikov]

do you really think xyxzxyzxy reaction was good
i thought it was like super lame
hell im having trouble conceiving of a game state in which hes town if you actually are
theres the bulk of a team left out there somewhere ya know

[Raskolnikov]

You don't mind getting lynched because that would solve the game, then you vote me???? Why push back on your own lynch if it's going to make the game "pretty solvable"???

Dude thats like not what she said

[Raskolnikov]

Honestly if I do get lynched soon, this game is hopefully pretty solvable so I don't mind that much??

sky i do want you to expand on this though

[Raskolnikov]

viewtopic.php?t=76904&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

SKY WHY ARE YOU SO DIFFERENT HERE

[Raskolnikov]

We should lynch xyzzy

[Raskolnikov]

good then maybe people will stop focusing on associations and actually lynch badslots

[Raskolnikov]

no but really i already thought of that
VERY unlikely 2 scumteam kills did not go through
unless you are speccing TW as a multiball member

[Raskolnikov]

no thats good analysis
also might explain some of the focus from people on lynching tw

although I still dont feel comfortable speccing moi=andy gambit
and so it remains even there that there is a dramonic partner still somewhere else even if moi or 1 of the prs are redscum
and leads back to who in the pool of today is most likely scum

because worst case scenario with all that, i still think there has to be a scum in the lynchpool today

[Raskolnikov]

you towntold yourself a lot today though which is actually pretty good
people again dont lynch taly this game

[Raskolnikov]

no i dont get it lynch the duck for the absolute baseless nonsense speculation

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: almost50

[Raskolnikov]

if there's scum in the fruit vendors its probably MoI

[Raskolnikov]

is it bad that im optimistic xyzzy flips scum

[Raskolnikov]

if not a scum flip i would sus a50 on the flipside though
he was like oh idk lets lynch anyone in the pool for a long time and now he suddenly has strong opinions the second the hammer fell lol

[Raskolnikov]

whoops

[Raskolnikov]

youre claiming pr?

[Raskolnikov]

ok can you claim then if it could help

[Raskolnikov]

bah
if this was the reaction to the earlier hammer youd not be the lynch

[Raskolnikov]

TW i would shoot a50 personally

[Raskolnikov]

guess i could see it if xyzzys town hider

unfortunately it sounds like a role that fits in this kind of setup with FV(s), and vig/sk so my bad today I guess

[Raskolnikov]

HEY xyzzy what did you do n1?

is it technically possible you were chosen as scum NK?

[Raskolnikov]

well, im not anymore

[Raskolnikov]

Eyo
Don't wagon anybody too far until everyone's posted
Also I'm kinda vla for a while it's annoying to set while on phone though
I might have an hour or so to think on things tonight though

[Raskolnikov]

I will say one thing, if scum were planning to kill ausuka as she has claiming, it thankfully makes her result more reliable, as she is probably less likely to get scum tracked if they have it if they were just planning on her being dead

[Raskolnikov]

Also sorry a50

[Raskolnikov]

I think moi should possibly be lynched next day, as then if he is town as worst case, we'd still have 2 results from him and confirmed ones to boot

Though scumspects are narrowing so I am wrong within moi sky hws profii maybe inferno at this point, have to rethink

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Skygrazer

[Raskolnikov]

Sky I feel less anytime someone's been a viable lynch you've been some level of willing even if token protesting

[Raskolnikov]

Lynch moi tomorrow
Let him have one more result just in case

[Raskolnikov]

You're not helping my case, signature

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: HWS

[Raskolnikov]

We're not no lynching and jingles actually pushing some really scummy shit right now

[Raskolnikov]

From interactions he said basically the old "if you think that was bussing you're crazy"

[Raskolnikov]

I'm weighing actually lynching moi tbh even though by the book tomorrow is safest play
What actually could be the scumteam in a world where he and aus are town?
Literally there's almost just enough people left to even make it right?

[Raskolnikov]

Nah I think mechanically if moi is lynched tomorrow the game is almost necessarily won
Either he's scum or he's town and 2 get townfirmed from it
Ironically if hes town it's actually technically better
As for scum moi it calls Andynos into question but still don't really see scum winning that esp if last is got today
Given loud protect is another unclaimed conftown and worst comes to worst we could use chick venge I think game game should be unlosable with safest course tbh

[Raskolnikov]

Ftr my sky vote was somewhat a test
I think she probably should be treated a bit gently
Both her and Taly have this fire to defend themselves and a lot of attention paid to the game which makes those two a particularly good bet for town now especially

[Raskolnikov]

Err but ANYWAYS
I think HWS is probably demotivated scum I've been looking for
Profii despite his selfing still seems somewhat engaged/invested in game analysis here?

[Raskolnikov]

His metaphorical selfing, so to speak

[Raskolnikov]

No lynching and no vigging at this point just kills off either aus or a conftown, you were saying scum have to kill in our lynchpool like ???

Chick thing is side note given nos and last resort if maybe moi flips scum, given nos hasn't gone into his thing

[Raskolnikov]

Jingle I'm on phone so maybe I've missed it
What is your spec for scumteam right now

[Raskolnikov]

Especially if scum have a loud tracker as you spec , because in that case No Lynch doesn't even give us a reliable inno going forward
So I'm really not getting how you think it helps our situation

[Raskolnikov]

I think brass also probably isn't scum tracked fake fruit because he had the detail of the fruit being wrapped for the record
Idk how reliable any further checks would be from this point however

[Raskolnikov]

I got spurs that jingle jangle jingle

[Raskolnikov]

I think no lynching might be one of the few things that maintain scum wincon at all here
When you have a pool of innos you try to lynch scum before that pool dies out, vigshots benefit us in this case as well. Stagnation really doesn't

I don't want to out the 2 people I think are highest chance of doc here but I doubt HWS based on his play and level of engagement so far

[Raskolnikov]

If we lynch non-pr scum today remaining scum have to choose between taking actions and doing NK as a minor note as well
New normal rules are only multitasking modifiers can simult act and kill

[Raskolnikov]

can't bring myself to lynch someone who's asking for it
no but really he towntold a little and gamma said he didnt... try to kill anyone last night if I'm understanding what detective does?

[Raskolnikov]

Damn

Hey can someone compile players who even could be scum if moi town right now? I'm still on phone atm

[Raskolnikov]

You're speccing scum tracker and saying we should grow the innos at the same time
Also newsflash
One is probably scum
GE if town is apparently not that useful an invest
Nos apparently has nothing of note today and his chick thing was almost half sounding like a personal vouch or something soft rather than anything hard anyways
I think you really overestimate the use another round gives
However it's not even like lynching stops such
This isn't lynching in the invest pool

[Raskolnikov]

You can't rely on expanding an inno pool faster than scum kill.
You have to narrow scumpool at the same time to actually make progress

[Raskolnikov]

I also don't generally trust town in a war of attrition playing the results game esp a day or so past if I die as an inno
Play is at least kept a focus lynching and you have stances, associations reactions and all the rest
If FV(s) were claimed cop maybe it'd be a different story though but that's not how it is

[Raskolnikov]

also the person who vouched for Andy taking his inno claim on Chickadee seriously was.....

wait for it..........

MoI

This is somewhat less relevant though as there has to be a town in this chain somewhere
Chicktown with double moinos scum, or maybe nosandy town but mistaken in their chick vouch and moi going either way

[Raskolnikov]

Maybe tw is BP SK and that's why one of the nights had no kill HMMM

[Raskolnikov]

Ftr I don't think confirming tw as having killed is a reason to TR GE (scum would want either vig or sk lynched naturally, and could be detect ESP if sk)
Actually that role could technically actually be scum tracker if you really want to tinfoil it
But I think hitalts play matched town PR so I don't realistically think he's scum

[Raskolnikov]

Hey jingle ignore rolespec for a bit
Who do think have highest chances of being scum here via play
Especially among the nonprs though you surely must have some thoughts

[Raskolnikov]

Scumpool is one thing but the next step is reading into it

[Raskolnikov]

Zzzzzz you're supposed to no comment and potentially avoid some nk heat

[Raskolnikov]

Bah humbug

[Raskolnikov]

If Pine added anynight and added activated based on probably this post, it's fairly reasonable that he might have tried to work in informed somehow too while he was at it. But even then I think the spirit of that role is traditionally more of a town thing, mafia are pretty informed by default, and giving mafia informed free setup info onto one of the town PRs would IMO just be kinda lame tbh.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: moi
I guess this or no lynch welp (or idk profii)

[Raskolnikov]

HWS isn't town for his claim but I'd kind of want massclaim to happen tmrw THEN he outs his informed info

[Raskolnikov]

can't bring myself to lynch someone who's asking for it
no but really he towntold a little and gamma said he didnt... try to kill anyone last night if I'm understanding what detective does?

I believe it checks if someone ever killed/tried to kill
so it's a little better than tracker wrt finding killers but that's the only thing it does

Hey gamma you kinda have to find this out its somewhat of a big deal
Roles are not really supposed to be ambiguous in that way in normal queue (people should generally understand the basic of what their role does) so get this sorted out one way or another

[Raskolnikov]

Huh where did moi and taly go

[Raskolnikov]

I was thinking he should maybe be the vig tbh but idk
Hws should really be scummier than he is
The gamestate isnt adding up anymore

[Raskolnikov]

==> Vote Count 3.2 <==

With 13 votes in play, it's 7 to lynch!

Flavor pending.

[L-3]

MagnaofIllusion - Skygazer, profii, Ausuka, Raskolnikov

[L-6]

Ausuka - MagnaofIllusion

[L-7]

brassherald -

[L-7]

the worst -

[L-7]

Gamma Emerald -

[L-7]

Skygazer -

[L-6]

Jingle - Gamma Emerald

[L-7]

Chickadee -

[L-5]

HeWhoSwims - the worst, Chickadee

[L-7]

Raskolnikov -

[L-7]

Taly -

[L-7]

Nosferatu -

[L-7]

Profii -

Nursing their beer (Not voting)

- brassherald, Jingle, HeWhoSwims, Taly, Nosferatu

(expired on 2018-08-18 09:30:00)

====================

The biggest threat to town now is a scum tracker, if it does exist
Could try to hunt that here
Mmmmm

[Raskolnikov]

I mean let's not forget he'd be alive if not for being shot
It's not like he got lynched

[Raskolnikov]

Everyone put together a team of 3 names of scum if moi (and therefore nos too) is town

Hws - informed
Profii - VT claim
Sky? ??? Risky
Taly? ??? Risky
Jingle eeeh follower
Gamma hitalts detect

Don't think gamma hit is scum
I can't reconcile 3 of these names being scum tbh
Hell I really don't think taly is but 3/4 of the rest being scum sounds crazy

[Raskolnikov]

Probably too lenient townreading profii for his thing tbh
Can someone meta him again I can't really via phone tbh

[Raskolnikov]

I don't know if profiis continued obsession over a day 1 mini wagon composition is pants on head, genius, or just scum and this is from the wagon recipient

[Raskolnikov]

Mmm I really don't say this lightly, but I think jingle is probably likely town

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: profii

[Raskolnikov]

Ngl my lynch record this game hasn't been that good

[Raskolnikov]

Idk if tw should vig anyone tonight tbh, could hit the loud
HWS how bad do you think it would be to out your info today

[Raskolnikov]

I just had a scary thought that maybe both moi and ausuka could be scum in a super gambit scum strat, but then town would seriously lack investigative power I think

[Raskolnikov]

Brassherald do you have a neighbourize shot

[Raskolnikov]

So moi profii and either nos or sky?

[Raskolnikov]

So, you're claiming a second VT in the role madness?

I've decided my showtunes thing is hard enough to keep going in one game, nevermind multiples. I'm dropping it here.

Well we already have 2 flipped and I'm pretty sure there are more so this isn't why profii would be scum

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:
Maybe vig profii

[Raskolnikov]

Hehe... Hung

[Raskolnikov]

Zzzzzzz this setup fuckery
I could solve this with massclaim but early massclaim is too risky
Situation kinda like clownspiracy was

[Raskolnikov]

Vengeful Mafia isnt a thing in normals fight?
The closest thing is maf suicide bomber?

[Raskolnikov]

Profii feels kind of vengey
It's actually annoying
I probably should've just no lynched like jingle suggested
I wonder who will replace moi and taly

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: profii

[Raskolnikov]

Profii if you ARE town I'd consider bringing hws or failing that sky
Please trust me when I say the biggest threat right now by far is groupscum even if tw is sk, but again he can easily be vig here

[Raskolnikov]

Mod please prod or replace moi ty

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:

[Raskolnikov]

Pine in the event taly or moi did flake how long do you think it would take for them to get replaced

[Raskolnikov]

If I were MOI, I would never use my fruit vend, because disloyal fruit vendor would inno people after my flip.

[Raskolnikov]

But Andy getting the same type of fruit in the same format as me lends credibility if there is a sync, which is also more rational a thing to be possible now that moi isn't odd night

[Raskolnikov]

Hey don't interrupt my stream of consciousness bro

[Raskolnikov]

I get home tomorrow
What were going to do is either hws out his informed info directly, or massclaim and then do so
Or thirdly just have sky claim then out informedinfo

Sky or hws are first impressions for lastscum

[Raskolnikov]

Finally, nos banana should be good but concerning after the chick "inno" no further similar thing has since come out of the slot which is mmm

[Raskolnikov]

We could carpet bomb hws sky nos, to use mois terminology :p
Anyways don't end day before I get back tomorrow guys please
I want to steal as much of the credit for the win as I can

[Raskolnikov]

Okay

I think sky gets benefit of the doubt and we lynch hws and vig nos if game isnt over after the lynch

[Raskolnikov]

Actually idk mmmm

[Raskolnikov]

So if chick is scum, nos/andy town psychologist picked her n1 and chick knew or got lucky and claimed venge?
Either figuring it from play (maybe moi does this), claimed it coincidendally as wifom (moi did kinda gambit with claiming as he did), or rolecop or similar give it away
It doesn't seem likely but moi reinforcing andys result feels kinda gross in retrospect

[Raskolnikov]

~Town
Detective
Loyal Fruit Vendor
Activatable BP
Protective(?)
Psychologist(?)
Venge(?)
Vig(?)

~Scum
Prime Night Jailkeeper (fairly strong)
Disloyal Fruit Vendor (not a strong role)
Goon
???????? Loud? Tracker? Rolecop?

HWS is probably informed regardless but as a role it doesnt feel strong enough to necessarily have to go either way


I'm trying to get in the head of pine here...
In a usual scenario, the fruit vendor does WAY LESS because of the mafia jailkeeper. Block either fv or target and FV maybe thinks its a guilty on the guy.
Detective psychologist.
The modified detective role here gamma claimed seems powerful. Sure maybe it gets vig (or SK) but finding if a scum has EVER killed? Very useful I think, although can't inno people.
Psychologist IDK seems really weird. Have trouble parsing it in a balance sense, weaker than det obviously and maybe could "false guilty" chick if she is town but eh
If anything this role claim might just be fake as it doesn't seem useful for scum to have this role either
vig is often wildcard as can often hit town early on instead of this game, but with the investigative power to PoE mod should maybe slightly realise vig is better functioning than usual here because of poe.
Given all the lack of kills it is somewhat likely there is some town kill blocking role as well, variations of which generally tend to be powerful (although JK seems to be ruled out)
I thought brass might have been a JOAT earlier but him just claiming to have more BP activations is kinda ehh

Why does MoI gambit day 2 with JK dead? Perhaps he made his mind to do so before any suggestion of ausukas existence?
If its not to put his partner in a better position, idk. Maybe for towncred himself, although then people wonder why he remains alive later.

I almost feel like scum have to have some kind of tracker or rolecop variant this game, and actually a multitasking FOLLOWS THE THEME of essentially all new normal-rule-roles

[Raskolnikov]

Oh yeah follower.

Follower might suggest scum tracker too if jingle is town

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah I think nos might be scum pr here.
I scumread andrius anyways.

The only thing is I'm wondering if we should massclaim by now but idk.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Nos

[Raskolnikov]

I wonder if maybe its sky the whole time though

[Raskolnikov]

Ok here's the deal. If HWS is scum, he's probably not tracker multitasking scum.

So I'd maybe actually consider shooting sky if the game doesn't end.

[Raskolnikov]

Wait chickadee do you have a modifier
If HWS informed claim even true

[Raskolnikov]

Though by same token idk why HWS even scum would claim informed if it was wrong and contradictable by others by virtue of being made up

nvm I guess

[Raskolnikov]

I think andruis said something along the lines of that he wouldn't misread MoI if he was town IIRC

[Raskolnikov]

Actually I feel like sky claiming fruit is kinda gambity/scummy

[Raskolnikov]

I don't think moi uses fruit at that point when hes flipping soon with the disloyal in his rolepm?
The wifom strats tho

[Raskolnikov]

We had evidence profii didn't do the kill n1 or n2 right? Detective said that?
Why would scum not do kill with goon
Actually this kinda suggests another scum goon instead of scary scum pr as last

[Raskolnikov]

Actually nvm forgot but dramonc couldve easily did the n1 kill. then maybe MoI the n2
so redact that

[Raskolnikov]

I forgot about hider in my role list as well zzzz
hider and visitor hmm
I guess hider messes with the fruit
still some of these things def feel out of place if theres no tracker tbh

[Raskolnikov]

my gut feels like hws is kinda towny tbh but i dont like the implications of where else if not nos then

[Raskolnikov]

Actually it could be HWS
He isnt really scumhunting tbh?

[Raskolnikov]

Man I should've really lynched profii that d2 (was that the day he was hedging bets on the wagon?)
Actually I think profii-taly (irrelephant) is probably not together

VOTE: HWS

[Raskolnikov]

Uh, isn’t me being a regular visitor a hard cc to hs’s Claim?

I don't think he would make up informed on completely made up reasons if it could guilty him in such a way so his role is probably nai imo

[Raskolnikov]

I thought this was a little worrying, but ironically jingle doesn't do this if he was scum, because in that scenario hws flip would in turn then guilty him.

[Raskolnikov]

Actually idk
How old is visitor in normal queue whitelist?
Wasn't it recent actually?

[Raskolnikov]

Well it's with the others so. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76192
redact what I just said about jingle

[Raskolnikov]

TW are you ninja vig?

[Raskolnikov]

Or ninja SK

[Raskolnikov]

Activated is under the edit at the bottom as is hider, any night specific and informed

[Raskolnikov]

Ahahahahahahahaha

I kinda TW might be SK now tho :/

[Raskolnikov]

or... multiball... ......

[Raskolnikov]

Either TW is scum (SK or multiball in a smaller secondary team) or there's a 6th mafia

actually it's possible the game is already a technical loss

[Raskolnikov]

If there's another scumteam

(A) Ausuka is town, but there is a 2nd scum tracker
TW
irrelephant ? (would track ausuka by then)
2 of nosferatu, brassherald, jingle (via reads I still think taly was probably town... brass as a d2 couldve been a track)
(not chickadee)

(B) Ausuka is 2ndscumteam disloyal fruit vendor
ugh

[Raskolnikov]

Chickadee is probably town

I'm wondering if the game is in technical loss right now as it probably is if there is another scumteam with 4 members

[Raskolnikov]

*technically not autoloss but effectively so

[Raskolnikov]

oh yeah taly was irrel fuck. and multiball really ruins both but moreso infernos towniness for pushing dram

zzzzz
anyways

I feel like for balance reasons one of ausuka or nos has to be town because we'd just be kinda gimped otherwise with lack of investigations (gamma was useful but that's just 1)

if (A) because ausuka played a lot townier
TW could actually be multitasking tracker
alternatively irrelephant is tracker

jingle, nosferatu and brassherald are probably their claimed roles regardless of align for multiple reasons, the setup theme pine did seem to do one of everything, but also and in part because of that, fakeclaiming such roles would be extra risky in terms of attracting a possible counterclaim and scum would be averse

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: The Worst

the possibility of TW being vig now is miniscule for a few reasons

1) if there's a multiball (or sk?) outside of TW, they must have had their kill blocked n1 and then never chose to act again after seeing TW claim vig kill. it is somewhat unlikely they'd be blocked this way to begin with n1 but especially that they'd maintain this over so many nights. This also seems unlikely as there would be so many killing roles too for a ostensibly normal-balanced game

2) if vig he actually should have a modifier of some form, and I thought maybe he was keeping it close but when asked he acted as if the notion was absurd

3) it is technically possible there is a 6th mafscum and singleball although rare this would be, however in this case the game would still be winnable (and in fact should even be unlosable?)

it is possible I'm being full paranoia with the multiball spec at this moment (and its probably pointless regardless as the game is essentially lost anyways if 4/8 are scum here) and SK DOES seem both far more balanced here both in a normal-balanced setup sense but also as it was in fact mentioned in the "new normal roles" post which seems to have so thoroughly influenced this game setup as well

finally there is some question as to why the duck would act as he had. it is rather bizarre in a way that he'd out n2 however
I have seem duck make questionable moves as scum so unfortunately this isnt even something to his credit...
in our recently finished game (viewtopic.php?f=23&t=76627) the duck was scum and the scumpool was between him and his partner an encryptor. he softed PR as a goon which lead to us lynching his encryptor partner (first ouch) but then he decided to fakeclaim a gunsmith guilty onto town, an act which AT BEST would have traded his life 1 for 1 with a town but in that scenario I had proof he was lying so he just died then. anyways the gist of it is I don't think he has any problems with unorthodox play or gambits that eventually hurt him so claiming vig as SK is something I see a lot more viable from him than most other people...

[Raskolnikov]

the addendum to that is initially by this point I though TW should shoot town instead of scum skygazer, but then I realise maybe he did in fact think skygazer was town and possibly doctor instead of nos(not doctor and scummier play tbh) or elsewhere

[Raskolnikov]

Granted I don't particularly want to waste time with this day if it's actually 4:4 and (essentially autoloss) so I would want to see if certain players do think so or there is characteristic stuckness (and quietness) of such autoloss as people frantically type in their PTs and what not

[Raskolnikov]

if it's 4:4 my heart will be sad

[Raskolnikov]

If there is a 6th singleball scum it is nos.
But being wary of multiball and being wrong doesn't end the game.
Not being wary of multiball and being wrong does.

[Raskolnikov]

I think there is a possibility TW thought sky was protective rather than maf.

Mmm multiball. Though if it's 4:4 it's gg anyways, 2 scumteams of 4 is possibly a bit much for a normal balanced game, this could possibly be in 5:3.

50% TW is just SK
20% 4+4 multiball (end of story essentially)
15% 4+3 (or 4+2 but seems unlikely)
15% 5th scum nos

[Raskolnikov]

4+4 is essentially hopeless anyways though as there is literally not the voting power available to lynch scum the game is more or less over even if still running so yes 4+3 is my concern

5vX vs SK is arguable but I feel like it almost doesnt matter as game is won regardless. if you are not SK or multiball your lynch would disprove that and catching 5th would then seem almost trivial, if not nos chick then chick venges or something.

If multiball was off the table and it was purely SK vs 5th I would leave you alive but force your shot as it would be higher utility therefore but with multiball a consideration it's way way more risky

[Raskolnikov]

TW if you're claiming to be town claim your modifier
if you are town vig you have to have a modifier
again for a while i've thought hey maybe tw is town vig who just is trying to hide their modifier. but your reaction yesterday did not seem to fit so

[Raskolnikov]

TW
irrelephant ? (would track ausuka by then)
2 of nosferatu, brassherald, jingle (via reads I still think taly was probably town... brass as a d2 couldve been a track)
(not chickadee)

[Raskolnikov]

I don't think ausuka is another scum disloyal FV both via play and as setup makes more sense with disloyal vs loyal rather than 2 disloyals mirroring if the theme as shown continues though if she id just feel gross anyways

[Raskolnikov]

Ngl I think it's comically obvious what my modifier is and why I've been lolcatting instead of claiming jt.

im not letting you skate on vague softing like last game.

[Raskolnikov]

im not helping you by guessing what your play would suggest if you actually would be town vig

[Raskolnikov]

I thought you might have had ninja, but now I don't think you have any modifier because you seem like SK from your reaction and from the game not having ended.

[Raskolnikov]

HWS said only town roles would have to have the modifier thing.

[Raskolnikov]

It's incredibly bizarre to me that the game persists with a 4th dead scum in skygazer so yes.

[Raskolnikov]

I would have placed 80% odds on the game not continuing but here we are.

[Raskolnikov]

My info is that all of the roles that aren't vanilla, have something to do with the new normal rules (eg Hider, specific night, fruit vendor, activated were all whitelisted

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76192

I don't see X-shot being related to any of those new normal rules

[Raskolnikov]

I'm sad because I was hoping you'd claim compulsive.

[Raskolnikov]

Okay what are the "full details" of your BP.

How are you not suspicious of like brassheralds claim?

[Raskolnikov]

Absence of town tracker also worryingly points to scum wolf tracker multiball with town hider, maf ninja, claimed visitor(although guess itd make jingle town of bunch), forgot if there was another thing

[Raskolnikov]

i reaaaaaaaally dont think theres a world with another scumteam that wouldnt include you
what they just dont kill and lie low to ly lo?

[Raskolnikov]

sorry - another scum. not another scumteam necessarily but we'll find out when we lynch another obvscum player

maf with ninja and the only tracker?
that's why it suggests MB

a town tracker otoh I think really would've come up with something by now